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Piper Navajo - Cost to Own
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- Опубліковано 8 гру 2021
- What does it actually cost to buy and own a Piper Navajo? In this short video we break down the Cost of Ownership this twin engine aircraft and let you know exactly what your get for your money. And how much of your money it will take.
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Costs of airplane ownership vary widely from owner to owner. This video takes an average of the various expenses from existing owners and boils them down to simple to digest numbers. Your ownership experiences will be unique.
I remember we had this private enterprise in Columbia where we bought about 3 of these. Good workhorses, could do long hauls and get our cargo on time, even when over capacity, which was most of the time. Could even take off from dirt runways. Very good planes.
Interesting lol
So how much marching powder could you take out of a 600m dirt runway ? ;)
Aerosecre?
@@RGF56 Lmao never heard it called that before
Pablo?! It's been so long! How's it going?
Another strange request... how about a Fairchild Merlin! Like the metroliner but smaller. Very cool twin that I believe would make for a great video.
Those are sweet!
Own one, fly one. Yes I do have a “tree” for son who could not fit in a 172 or Archer. My insurance is $4200; hangar $7750; leaned out I get someplace 10min later for 32 gals an hour; my planned MX cost runs $12K per year-some years more, some years less. As I’ve owned other planes that true of any model. I love the plane. It’s easy to fly, forgiving in its handling, and if you can land a Cherokee, you can land a Navajo. And yes carrying your guest or family to someplace with all their bags makes for fun trips; and let’s not forget the civilized entry and exit for passengers. If you have a twin mission profile, I have found it to be a good choice, easy to maintain, and cost and expenses similar to any similarly capable twin.
would love to see a Caravan, PC-6 or Twin Otter, always wondered how much it costs to keep them bush flying
second the Twin Otter, please!
thirding the Twotter
Twin Otter loses big time on per mile costs because of two engines, low altitudes, and slow speeds.
Unless you really need two engines and STOL capabilities.. you’re far better served by a Caravan or the upcoming Sky Courier.
Love these videos, keep them coming! Something else you might want to try is doing cross comparisons of planes for different common missions. So compare a Cessna 150 to a Cessna 172 for people who want to earn a Private Pilot Certificate and/or an Instrument Rating. Or compare a Cessna 182 to a Piper Cherokee 235 for people who want to travel a bit and carry a couple of people and some stuff. Just a thought.
I have been looking at Navajos lately, thanks for putting this together! I was quoted $10k for insurance, so maybe you have more multi-engine time than me? Also, my hangar is only $2500/yr so I'm getting off easy on that part. Not sure who is charging you 10k for your annual, but if that's the going rate I need to raise my prices... I charge $6500 for a twin of that size and complexity, and of course, any squawks are extra, but for me owning a Navajo is much cheaper just because of my line of work. But otherwise I'd say you're about spot on!
Hi! Thanks for sharing your experience. Insurance rates I found were between 4200 and 8000. Those were for various experienced pilots with various valued Navajos. For the annuals, that was the average for an annual inspection including squawks.
The annuals and hourly maintenance sort of go together in my calculations. Basically you're on the hook for maintenance if you fly very little and that increases as you fly more. It's not a strict annual vs non-annual maintenance. More a means to arrive at a total maintenance cost that incorporates how much you fly.
This would indeed be a great plane for someone working in aircraft repair! I say go for it! 😁👍
And i bet you can count on one hand how many twins you’ve done annuals for which didn’t have any additional squawks. That $6500 turns into 10k REAL quick.
@Trevor I always assume that every aircraft that comes in for an annual will have a few squawks so my cost includes 10 hours of labor. The only additional costs is parts. It's always been my goal to make aviation more affordable and accessible to owners so that private aviation stays alive. It's never going to make me rich, but I'm ok with the joy I get from being able to do what I love
@@lookileftpooponyourpage5604 if you're still looking for one, there's one that is up not far from me (plane is located in Marshalltown, Iowa, listed on trade-a-plane). 200k, looks pretty nice.
I came here curious about the costs. Too much for operating costs for me, but definitely looks fitting if you can handle the costs.
We had one of these at our A&P school.. it had definitely seen better days but was interesting. Previously seized by the DEA for smuggling across the gulf, also equipped with the q-tip props that threw all of us off for a while wondering how did it ground strike so effortlessly and not blemish the paint XD
Incredibly roomy passenger compartment however. And the windows are HUGE
Watched several of your vids. In process of purchasing a Columbia 400. Noted that while you mention the purchase price, you don't include typical financing into your fixed costs. Would be illuminating to see a 15% downpayment and 20 year note included (typical business/personal use terms) and/or compared with 30% / 12 yrs (typical for leaseback to a flight school) so folks get an appreciation for that as well.
Yes, the ways to finance are so vast I decided not to tackle them in these videos. Just the price. Maybe I will add a thing in the descriptions to that effect. You are 100% correct of course.
Enjoy the Columbia, that will be a great personal plane. Thanks for watching.
@@CompleteWalkaround 1:50
What does this mean
They rarely make to TBO(time before overhaul)?
BUT WHY?
yeah i was having a pretty good laugh about your very amusing narration right up until the endcard with the hourly prices, when my bright smile turned swiftly upside down and a single tear started to run down my cheek...
Could you do a J-3? Also some other suggestions for the future; Arrow, Bonanza, Tomahawk, Diamond DA-40. Keep up the great work!!!!
There's a whole bunch of these from ameriflight lined up in Arizona some Airport. Talk about some really tired looking airplanes. I like to get one of these cheap to part out and use the engines on an experimental aircraft kit project. Sadly a Navajo just crashed this week in Medford Oregon, soon after takeoff in IMC weather.
Great vid… love this concept of how much owning and operating each plane with a great touch of humor in the begining. Even though i’m not in a position to buy a plane now, but who knows, maybe i could in the future. Hope to see Piper PA-34 Seneca or PA-44 Seminole next. I really like these two, especially the Senecas since i flew that plane during flight training. Best of luck to your channel.
If you could do a 421 that would be great, I grew up flying in one and I’m curious how much it really costed my dad
Should be quite expensive in operative costs due to operation on avgas. Here in Europe they've almost gone.
The GTSIO-520 is also very expensive. Only a few shops will even touch one to overhaul it anymore.
Great analysis. Current Navajo owners should welcome any buyer who will take one off their hands for even pennies on the dollar. Otherwise, they will sit there and generate that forty grand a year in fixed cost as paper weights. The $420 hourly cost estimate could be light on the reserve side - it maybe covers the engine overhauls but what about all the other equipment overhauls and replacements....from landing gear to avionics? A variable run cost of about $500 is probably more realistic. Let's see what he says about the cost of a Seneca.
Love your short and very informative video! Keep up the good work.
I flew the Cheiftan. It was a fun plane to fly . It was Slow but smooth and easy.
Love these videos. Clear, concise, and visually appealing. Would love to see a video on the Socata TB200 or TB10.
While I don't want to ever buy a plane, I enjoy learning about aviation technology. I find the pressurized PA-31P Navajo a fascinating aircraft, even if supposedly no one likes it.
Edit: I like your sense of humor, and combination of your informative style. :)
Thanks!
When I say nobody likes PA 31P I really mean very few people bought them or bothered to maintain them. Cessna 340, 414 and 421 were wildly more popular and piper threw in the towel after just 259 build. And yes, People didn't want to maintain them either. You can find dozens of pressured Cessna twins on the market at anytime but pressurized Navajos are very rare today.
Thanks for watching!
@@CompleteWalkaround You're welcome. I literally know nothing about aviation, but I flew to almost Europe every year or so before the pandemic, so I found aircraft fascinating. Then, in late 2020, I discovered Swiss001 and DorDek Kiddy (two channels that have flight simulators, the first guy has a sense of humor like yours, while the second is more serious). YT has a huge aviation community. :)
Great work my friend. Please continue.
Aye
Can we do the vans RVs next? 6A/7A and 10A
Please do the Ercoupe.
Great video. I would love to see Cirrus Vision SF50 and Epic E1000 next.
Bonanza A36 is a must!
This is such a gem of a channel. Keep it up!
Very informative vids! How about one for the Dutchess BE-76?
Wow! My son cut his teeth on these, and we were able to rent it from his company for $200 hr dry.......that must have been a heckuva deal.Anyways, it allowed us to go on a couple of personal adventures. Great airplane with a huge cabin.........it was refreshing to fly over the mountains and look down on them, rather that threading our way between them in a 172........
You can get a C55 Baron and do 190kts and about 600 miles range with around 1900lb useful
I'd imagine with how many of these are being dumped into the market it would be cheap enough to get an extra one for just parts. I'm remember seeing a video of a dozen or so of these more or less abandoned that were used mostly for hauling goods. They couldn't have been sitting for longer than a couple years. If you want a Navajo on the cheap i'd bet you could get some good deals going directly to ex operators of these aircraft. Expenses aside this is a great twin. I've seen modified Navajos operating from short grass runways. Its one of the best in class performance wise.
awesome video! I would be very interested to see the pc24 or baron g36
Seen some really sweet ones with the lock and key upgrades.. I'm in love with it now. About as comfortable as a pc-12 but with better ramp appeal in my opinion.
Hard to beat a big ole propeller twin on the ramp
Hi, great videos, I am sure everyone wants to see the plane they like but I was wondering if you were going to make a video about the piper comanche 250? Thank you 👍
Your humour is fantastic. BRING ON THE PAINNNN!
Hopefully some bigger planes are in the future out of pure curiosity such as king air 90, and small jets like the vision jet citation xl. Also maybe some small simple planes like a super cub
I love these videos, super informative even though I have no way of ever owning a plane! Running costs for a PC12 would be cool too - would you be able to put a video on that together please?
Love to a Piper Saratoga analysis. Love these videos.
Piper Lance is basically the same plane-but cheaper. 300hp and nice cabin/145-150kts
May I request you do cost to own of a Vans RV12-iS? i own 1/12 of one and interested to know how much it would be if i decide to go solo on one.
DO CESSNA 340!!!
Great aircraft but challenging in a severe crosswind because of the interconnection between the rudder and the nose wheel
Please do one on a PA44-180 Seminole!
Could you do a Beach Bonanza!! Looking into buy one and have found your videos so helpful!! Thanks and keep up the awesome work.
you are HILARIOUS! Really well done videos!
Can you make vids on the twin Cessnas (310 all the way up to the 421) ? Thanks
Great video ! please do a video on the Pacific Aerospace P-750 XSTOL and the SUPER-PAC XL version.
Or thé kodiak quest
You should make a video about a tecnam, pipistrel or something with a rotax engine, love your vids
Hi, I did a Rotax in the kitfox video. There will be more. Thanks for watching.
Do a sky master
Great video! would love to see one on aerobatic aircraft like Extra300 and super decathlon!
Can j do the cessna caravan ? Great vid !
Just saw a chieftain not far from me on trade a plane for 200k. Was wondering how it was so relatively cheap.... now I know.
Ya... operating costs would eat me alive. Looks like nice plane for those that can swing the costs though!
Can you do this on a Robinson 22?
thenks
If you could, check out the cost of owning a Beech Musketeer A23
My wife and I have 3 big dogs, and want the roomy interior!
I had a chieftan for a short time . All you need a ton of money .
Just watched the M850 video, would be interesting to see how it compares to a turboprop twin like a King Air or better yet the Piaggio P.180.
Would love to see one on the aerostar 601p
DA62 please
I’d love to see a piaggio video
Insightful, could you please do this on a Cessna 421 C
Man.... the timing of this upload with the crash in Medford OR is quite something...
I'm a huge dude and have equally huge children. I need a Big plane. But those running costs though... Damn..
Would love to heat about a J3, DC-3 and Cessna 310’s
You could spend $120,000 on an engine overhaul or $12,000 on 2 ls6 engines and redneck your way into a functional plane if it works for the rv10 im sure it'll work for the Navajo
@CompleteWalkaround - So what is the more economical option for the equivalent mission/payload?
1:50
What does this mean
They rarely make to TBO(time before overhaul)?
BUT WHY?
How about an F16?
Ok I can cross that one off the list!
Ya, it's too bad. Beech Duke coming up next
I love your videos!!
And I'd like to know a little about your background, and how you source all this information
Hi, Thanks!
This is a cut and paste from previous times I've been asked this question. Hope you don't mind. Thanks for watching.
OK Sure. Well I've been around aviation a long time. I'm an active member of 2 local flying clubs. I'm a member of the major flying associations and a couple of less major ones. I'm also an active member of most of the online pilot/owners forums. I'm a kit builder, currently working on an Vans project and fairly involved in the home build community now as well.
It's not hard for me to poll groups of owners. I also know many pilots personally. Many who have owned several different aircraft. For the most part people are more than happy to talk about their planes. Usually all the responses I get on owners costs are very close to each other which gives me confidence in their accuracy. Once in a while I get outliers and I always follow up on those to find out why their numbers are different and they're usually a good reason. Some planes I can't find owners and that's when old fashioned research comes in. There's lots online if you're willing to read (I am). I'm not afraid to call my insurance company and ask for quotes either.
I've been actively or passively shopping for airplanes for as long as I can remember. So I pretty well have been doing all this work anyway for a long time. I know some of it can be really hard to find online especially for those who are new and aren't involved much yet and don't know people in aviation. That's why I started the channel. I also don't mind drawing airplanes 🤓
On the variable costs what is reserve?
Can someone explain it to me?
Engines must be overhauled from time to time. Manufactures publish a Time Before Overhaul (TBO) in hours. Which is an estimate for how many hours the engine will run before it needs to be overhauled. This isn't a hard set number, but a guideline. The reserve price is the cost of engine overhauls, divided by the TBO.
Yeah if your engines are not making it to 2200 hours you need to not be flying Navajos. a TIO540 is a very Long lived motor in the right hands. if you are penny pinching trying to get 35GPH and 190Kts you are going to cost yourself a lot in motors.
We have operated a Navajo for 14K hours as a survey bird and never had a motor last less than 2500 hours.
Can you make a video about the Cherokee 235 ? I love Ur videos
Thanks, 235 on the list for sure. Thanks for watching
@@CompleteWalkaround 👌
Hey guys I’m sorry if this question sounds stupid, I don’t have pilot license yet, but one of my 10year goals is to get them. When he says fixed costs are 41k does he mean that annually or monthly?
Not stupid. Fixed cost is annual. Variable cost is hourly. Good luck with the license!
Is he using Hobbs or tach time for the hourly price?
Can you do the citation CJ3+ VS the Citation M2?
So what's the more expensive alternative with lower maintenance that companies prefer?
Kodiak and Caravan. Lower maintenance factors in dispatch rate as well. Thanks for watching
aerostar?
Can you do Piper Aerostar 700
Yup, that's coming eventually
Yay finally!!
Baron?
Yup, it's there on the channel page. Enjoy!
Odd timing on this video. One of these Piper Navajos crashed nose first in Medford, Oregon recently.
Navajo engines are not high compression; they're 7.5:1
No Lycoming or Continental aviation piston engine is high compression, the n/a ones are typically 8.5:1
I flew a few hours in a Navajo that was gear supercharged 425 hp. On take off the plane would slide sideways from the torque, even when holding nose wheel input to oppose. The best takeoffs I had were a slow progression of throttle. It was a beast.
I'm going to cry foul on this one. It's about the same size as a Aerostar 600, yet the hangar cost is more than double.
All together.. FOUL FOUL!!
40' wings are the turning point in hangars. you go from many options to very few.
It’s good for carry my …… my ….product yay product
One reallllly big kid?
I am the big kid actually.
Fucking hell, that cost per hour!
190kts my ass
Figure 5-30 on page 5-25a
www.scribd.com/document/456846271/Poh-Piper-Navajo-Pa31
@@CompleteWalkaround A stock Navajo, not a "P" model, not a Panther Conversion, or with any other upgrade kits, average only 160-165kts clean. That is the reality of a Navajo....and I have plenty of time on type
@@warrenmatheson563 Fair enough. This POH for standard Navajo says otherwise.
@@lockirocu Spend enough time flying older piston machines and you'll find that most manufacturers specs were wishful thinking. Funny though, turbine aircraft manuals were always a bit more honest in their numbers.
Be a great video if he new what he was talking about. Also would be good to know which models he is talking about and whether he is talking USD or CAN$. A top shelf overhaul is between $70-75K USD, not $120. Fuel burn is between 34-42, depending on whether you are talking the original Navajo and the Chieftains. If his level of expertise is an good in his other videos, don't waste your time.