Burning Ending Explained & Analysis | Loyalty Cup
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- This week Richie dives deep into Burning a Haruki Murakami adaptation directed by Lee Chang Dong.
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Weekly on Loyalty Cup Andy, Richie, & Sean diving deep into Horror, Arthouse, Independent Film, and other obscurities.
EACH DISCUSSION STARTS SPOILER FREE -- Then jumps into spoilers after the bumper.
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Everyone has the right to their opinion and every interpretation of a plot is subjective, but your interpretation feels nonsensical and scattered, and you took some unjustified leaps in interpreting the characters. Jong-soo never really showed any signs of him being jealous of Ben's wealth, he was a bit perplexed as to how he was so affluent, but never jealous. A poor person simply being in the presence of a rich attractive person like Ben does not imply that the poor person is automatically jealous, that seemed like a personal narrative jump you made with no justification. He was probably jealous of Ben dating Hae-mi given that Jong-soo asked Hae-mi why she thought Ben was dating her to begin with. Her answer was that Ben liked "people like her," not that Ben actually liked HER specifically. This was one of the first signs that Ben had no interest in Hae-mi except that she was a perfect candidate for his "greenhouse burning."
This brings me to my second point, Ben never burned any greenhouses. This was a pretty clear point driven home by the director showing Jong-soo literally pull out a map and run around his entire neighborhood for two days to find the burnt greenhouse, he never found it. So for you to say that Ben possibly "tossed" Hae-mi into his greenhouse burning antics and burned her along with an actual greenhouse (which was never shown, and proven did not happen), sounds like an idea from a non-thorough viewing of the film. The greenhouses for Ben are a metaphor for the women he kills. He describes the greenhouses as abandoned and ugly, and that the police would not care about them if they were to be burned. Hae-mi is abandoned and lonely and police would not notice her disappearance, just like the aforementioned greenhouses. Ben tells Jong-soo that the greenhouse he burnt was closer to Jong-soo than he might expect, which is another metaphor implying that he killed Hae-mi (a greenhouse) because again, Ben did not burn an actual greenhouse.
A point of contention I had with your interpretation was that there was no explicit murder shown that Ben committed, therefore, it's basically a toss up whether or not Ben killed Hae-mi. You're correct in that the murder was not actually shown, but what would the point of film be if they did show Ben kill her? Then this would just be some boring revenge story of a guy killing another guy because the other guy killed his girlfriend for fun. At face value, that is what this film is, but the director purposely made the audience decipher this underlying story to make this an actual movie, and not some sort of documentary. The director laid hints out like Ben having trinkets from his victims like a music-festival-esque bead bracelet that had the name Michaela on it in that box in the bathroom. Later on, the box had Hae-mi's watch in it, who conveniently happened to disappear without Ben knowing about it. Hae-mi's room was suspiciously clean, and Boil was nowhere to be found. Later on, Jong-soo finds Boil and knows it is Boil because the cat LITERALLY RESPONDS TO BEING CALLED BOIL. Hae-mi ALSO left her giant pink suitcase in her apartment, so she definitely did not travel. Hae-mi called Jong-soo in what sounded like her last moments because you could hear frantic footsteps of someone running, then the sound of the phone being zipped up. If anything these are some pretty clear indicators that Ben killed Hae-mi and all the audience has to do is connect the dots.
The puzzle fits perfectly. The only reason why you said the "puzzle pieces don't perfectly fit" is because you made random assumptions that Jong-soo was just jealous of Ben's looks and wealth and killed him. You believe still that Ben ACTUALLY burned the greenhouse near Jong-soo when the director literally included a 15-20 minute segment dedicated to Jong-soo running around to all the greenhouses and not seeing any of them burned.
It sounds like you got caught up in Ben's wealth, good looks, and charisma and attribute those qualities to him being a "good" character, and possibly absolve him of even committing any murder outright.. All those traits in Ben were deliberate by the director to lull the audience into a false sense of security with him, much like Hae-mi was. So it sounds like you got trapped in Ben's wealth and good looks, then did not pay enough attention to the film afterwards, so the protagonist just looks like a "lame" and "unremarkable" jealous murderer who is a psycho for simply killing such a cool and handsome guy like Ben... Are you serious?
This lack of awareness took to you the point that you believe the cat that RESPONDED to it being called BOIL might just be some random cat? and the pink watch was just "left" there by Hae-mi and he conveniently kept it in the drawer full of other things that clearly other WOMEN LEFT THERE, LIKE BRACELETS AND NECKLACES? You really think he just has a drawer full of the misplaced jewelry of all the women he's dated? He never thought of returning them? All the women he dates actually, in his words, disappear "LIKE SMOKE IN THE AIR" (PROBABLY THE CLEAREST AND FATTEST HINT GIVEN TO THE AUDIENCE). Is that really the intelligent interpretation you got out of that? Ben is seen at another party with the same people with another girlfriend who is nearly a carbon-copy to Hae-mi. This new girl rants about her experience traveling to China to Ben's friends. During which Ben yawns and looks at Jong-soo EXACTLY like how he looked at Jong-soo when Hae-mi was talking about Africa. So Ben just always dates eccentric girls who travel, but yawns when they speak and is bored by all of them? That's just his "type" to you?
A logical step you can take with this film is that it's an indirect commentary on how society (possibly Korean society) treats women. Jong-soo talks to another one of the cheerleader promo girls outside of a shopping center and she talks about how there is no country for women, or something along those lines. She mentions that women get criticized for wearing makeup then criticized for not wearing makeup, and criticized for dressing too proper while also being criticized for dressing in too revealing clothing. This is a clear fourth wall type of moment that the director deliberately placed into the movie to act as an indirect way to attribute this entire film as a critique on how women are treated in society and that the world does not care that there women are being murdered and mistreated.
Your interpretation is flawed and illogical. It just sounds like typical "i'm a self proclaimed movie critic so i'm going to look really deep into this movie with big words" interpretation, except you made no intelligent connections between plot points and made flat out illogical assumptions for the sake of looking deeper into the movie. You rave about how you loved the movie, but your interpretation tells us that this movie made absolutely ZERO sense, so how could you have possibly liked it so much? Oh that's right, you regurgitated how other critics LOVED this movie, so therefore you must love it too, even though you basically watched the movie with the critical thinking of a walnut. Terrible review, sorry.
Well I think jongsu never murdered Ben. Like in the end he was seen writing a novel so I think the last part was his imagination.
I came to this conclusion because if Ben really had murdered haemi than why would he visit jongsu in the end as jongsu said he was there with haemi.
And even if Ben visited like he did in the end he really looked like he was expecting haemi to be there with jongsu.
Not sure if you getting my point... 😅
@@21stcenturyman95 omg yeah I thought it was strange too how Ben just showed up alone and acting as if he didn't know anything. It just seems strange to me he would keep his guard down to visit Jongsu after his wild claims of Haemi being there. It definitely seemed like one of jongsu's fantasies for the book he was writing. Jongsu was dealing with a lot of stuff and he honestly is a weak minded person so I don't think he would be able to pull off killing someone like Ben and not get caught in the process as well. He got "revenge" for Haemi the only way he knew how which was finally writing his book. Because there was nothing he could actually do. Even if he reported Ben for murder there was no way he would be able to prove it because all of Ben's victims were carefully selected as women who were free spirited loners that no one would look for or who police would assume were just runaways. Ben is charismatic and rich enough to also cover up for everything if he wanted to. Jongsu didn't stand an actual chance.
@@21stcenturyman95 Hmmmmmm interesting. Especially because of the scene before of Hae-mi jerking him off in the bed. Very interesting. The only thing from making this a complete no imo is the fact that Ben should have been expecting something to go down if Jong-su said he was coming with Hae-mi.
this was the best reply in the comments. thank you
BITCH I AM SCREAMING THIS IS THE BEST COMMENT IVE EVER SEEN ON UA-cam EVER
I don't remember the last time I saw a comment section bombarding so hard a movie review
1) There is a point in the film where they talked about metaphor, and when Lee jong su asks Ben if he has heard from Shin hae-mi, he says that she just disappeared like smoke.
2) Also, right after this Ben can be seen with a new girl who is very similar in character to Shin Hae-mi. She is also very talkative and expressive. Both her and Shin Hae-mi can be seen telling stories to him and his friends and Ben can be seen yawning in both scenes which means that he is bored and uninterested and suggests an ulterior motive for him being with them.
3) He also says that the burning green house give him a feeling of euphoria and a pulse that resonates deep down to his bones.
4) The cat definitely belongs to Hae-mi because it responds to being called Boira (boil) Multiple times.
5) The first time Lee jong su opens the small cabinet there are a bunch of stuff which are definitely female ornaments. The second time the pink watch which belongs to Shin Hae-mi can be seen. Which means that she is his last victim and her watch is a souvenir. It also reveals that he has killed multiple people before.
The difficulty in believing Ben actually did these crimes is because of the incredible performance of Steven Yeun and direction of Chang-Dong lee. The Charisma of the character of Ben is as real to us as it is to the the girls. His extremely charming nature on the outside makes it difficult to believe how he actually is on the inside. By abandoned Greenhouses he means girls nobody cares about girls that that has no connections to family and friends. Hae-mi 's sister (most probably) tell Lee Jong su that she cannot come home until she paid off her credit card debts, which shows that she has been abandoned by her family.
So in short Ben chooses his victims seduces them and burns them every two months so that he can live out his fantasy. so that he can feel euphoric and 'the pulse that resonates deep down to his bones'.
Ben should have prepared to be attacked in the last scene, but it seems to me that he is not.
That i don't know. maybe because he is very confident that Jung su will never find out what actually happened to Hae-mi.
@@kurtsangel5387 If Ben kills the girl, he should know Jung su lies when Jung su says he is with the girl. If I were Ben, I would know Jung su is lying and is trying to test whether I have killed the girl. If I were Ben, I would bring some friends and a weapon in case something bad happens. Ben knows that Jung su has been following him and is very eager to find the girl.
Maybe Ben thinks Jung su has no power, no money, no confidence and believes he will not do anything to hurt him, but the place they meet is in the middle of nowhere and Jung su mentions the girl who has been killed. I am really confused.
@Kenji Chan I agree it is a bit confusing. Maybe just to end the film the way that it did.
jong su and ben are the same person. see my comment below.
can i just say that the cinematography is so beautiful in this movie
agreed
Definitely. I actually screenshoted many scenes because of how beautiful they are
You need to see more movies
same cinematographer of PARASITE!!!!
...and im not sure he actually killed Ben in the end, it shows him with the Typewriter in his room prior to that scene, and he lacks the courage to do it, but he could WRITE a story about getting justice to his fallen girlfriend
That's what I was thinking... Because if Ben had infact killed haemi why would he come to visit Jong su at the end, and even if he did visit like in the end he looked like he was really expecting haemi there with Jong su.
Well done mate u just solved the case 👍
Me too im riding on this one. I DONT THINK THERE IS A DEFINITE FINAL ENDING but this seems to be the closest to it i guess. Jong is a Wuss. He would’nt try n do that, thats where this comes in
It was also mentioned by the director in an interview. He's not certain the ending actually happened.
The whole movie is about ambiguity. As we don't get answers to the deeper meaning of life quoting the great hunger similarly the movie also leaves many things without solid answers and we as audience are hovering in ambiguity.
@@21stcenturyman95 no dude... he kills ben. and ben killed hae-mi. not _everything_ is open-ended just because the film is ambiguous
Another hint is Ben’s obvious Psychopathic ideal and behaviour.
1. He said he never cried in his life
2. He thinks of him as above everything like a god which he reveals twice, once in pasta making scene talking about sacrifice and at Jong Su’s home talking about how he chooses greenhouses.
But how come he is not prepared at that time when Lee called him to meet at the end.It would be obvious for someone phychopathic like you mentioned above to be prepared in those kind of situation.
@@sagar9080 He is very confident in himself, he says to Jong-su that the police will never catch him when he "burns greenhouses" so he probably thought there would be no way Jong-su could kill him, though I must admit that action of him still felt a little bit off to me, even with this explaination.
@@lucienm.8546 I guess Ben doesn't think that love exists. He laughs when Jong-su tells him he loves the girl. I'm 100% sure he knows that Jong-su knows he killed her (directly or indirectly) when he says goodbye to him. He even says Jong-su should start the "greenhouse burning" hobby himself to, well, get over it. So he doesn't even anticipate someone having strong feelings for the girl he killed and killing him for it.
Anyone else figure out that Yeun is a serial killer from the first time we see the bracelets in the bathroom drawer? Or just me
With the make-up box, and those accecories, the first time we saw 'em, I thought that Ben could have been as trans. He had told us that he didn't feel sadness, meaning he is a psychopath, which can lead to a lot more mental disorders. That didn't turn out to be true lol
I just thought he was a player and the stuff in the bathroom were souvenirs of the girls he seduced. Turns out they are indeed souvenirs... but of a different kind.
TheElixir007 my friend made an interesting point, maybe the box is from girls he’s been with but instead of killing them they’re trinkets because he gives them money and sends them off to start new lives 🤔
I thought he was either a human trafficker or a pimp.
To me, if you look at everything that might suggest Ben is a killer, you can also explain it away as something else completely innocent. The whole point is that you don't know if he is or not, the director is playing with you! If I was forced to pick then I settle on the side that Ben didn't kill anyone which is what makes what happen at the end so unsettling. I don't get why so many people think he's a killer when there is no actual "evidence" on show (the director is deliberately making everything ambiguous). Just think about every scene /action of Ben and ask yourself what it actually confirms. For example, the burning of greenhouses isn't necessarily a metaphor for murder, it is just that's what they want you to think! We don't see her cat, so you can't confirm he took her cat as his. The "souvenirs" don't confirm murder! The odd behaviors don't make him a murderer, etc etc
No he never burnt any greenhouses! The whole thing was a metaphor which is why at Ben's house before when Heimee asks what a metaphor is he says ask Jungsoo and gives him a knowing smirky look. He says he only burns down abandoned green houses (like how Heimee is alone and has no friends or family) and says he wouldn't get caught because police in Korea don't care about that sort of thing. It is an ongoing criticism that the Korean police and justice system dont care enough about young girls who are murdered and don't put enough into protecting them from predators. The greenhouses is only a metaphor or a deterrent. He means he kills one girl every two or so months and the draw in his bathroom is where he keeps their trinkets. I thought the second scene with Ben's friends listening to another one of his girls tell an animated story how Heimee did, and react in the same condescending/ entertained way, shows he often has different girls and they are the same sort of abandoned loner as Heimee was. Its chilling. I think he must've hidden her body in the well from the story, but if so why can't Jungsoo find the old well?
@Surie Wurie i was thinking he actually burn his victims . when he talk about smoke i was sure i dont know what the lake was for tbh .
I think the director wants you to think its a metaphor for murder, he's just being a bit odd. It doesn't make him a killer. The drawer of trinkets doesn't prove he murdered anyone. The disinterested yawn and smiling that Ben does was brilliantly played by Steven and you can interpret it as a wicked grin or just a grin!
@@stevetucker5904 Steve Tucker watch it again with the idea of him being the killer. A lot more obvious that the Director was trying to convey that Ben was a killer. He's shown as a psychopath and a narcissist. He very openly says he killed her by saying 'maybe you didn't notice as it was closer than you think' also notice how Ben laughs when Jung tells him he loves her? Also the imagery of a burning Greenhouse the same night he last sees her. Little things that at first make little to no sense but wirh added context its a lot more obvious.
@@danielpinzon5240 I think all of the clues can be explained away. Which is more of the point of the director then Ben is the killer. The trinkets could just be items girls have left behind. Cats hardly ever go to anyone who calls there names. Hell, he called for the cat a couple of times and it never came to him.
@@edgardevice he has said he has his own interpretation of it but the idea was to open up discussion by leaving it 'open ended' . Still, think it's clear to see what the director was leaning towards. I mean, Yeah he could just keep trinkets of all the females he has a relationship with but was clearly more of a hint that he does that wirh every girl. That isn't true, the cat was hiding from them and only moved towards him when he actually used his name, it shows him first trying to lure the cat with noises and is not until he uses the name the cat feels comfortable to go to him. The symbolism throughout the film is also very important as it gives you hints as to what happened.
1) Ben is a serial killer and he murder Haemi
2) the movie try to distract us to think that Jong-su is jealous of Ben
3) Ben kills every 2 months and he confesses to Jong-su in a metaphor.
3.1) police does not care about old greenhouses burning which means “no one would care if a lonely unknown girl went missing”
3.2) burning a greenhouse every 2 months means " kills a victim every 2 months"
3.3) when Ben told Jong-su that he will burn a greenhouses nearby his area means "he will kill someone (Haemi) close to him(Jong-su)" .
4) when Ben and Heami left Jong-su, there is a clip of greenhouses burning, which means Ben kills her that night.
4.1) when Jong-su asked Ben where is Haemi, he said she disappear like a smoke means "she is dead" and meanwhile he already have a next victim which similar character of Haemi (lonely, poor and no relative) .
5) Jong-su is desperate for finding any proof due to his suspicious but the more he look for answer the more he doubt himself.
6) at one point Jong-su spied Ben to a scene where Ben stares a lake. which bring me a suspicion that Haemi body is drown in the lake since serial killer is always comes back to their crime scenes.
7) lastly, he is snapped when he released that the cat in Ben's house is Boil and Haemi's watch is found in Ben's toilet as a killing trophy.
8) Jong-su reaction is to plot Ben murder in the end.
None of this is concrete though lol. The only thing we actually see is the murder at the end. The rest about Ben being a serial killer is assumed.
@@turkymurky8433 that's the whole point, to leave the public thinking about it but it was filmed in a way that in 2nd viewing you can see Ben being a killer a lot clearer.
I think you nailed it. There is also the talk about metaphor when they cook pasta
my head just exploded!
In the end right before Ben is stabbed is asked jong su "where is hae mi? " . It throws me off because if Ben is the killer he wouldn't have asked that question ...right?
There are no "concrete" answers to the mystery of the movie. THAT is the point of the film and the emotion it looks to instill is one of being lost and unsure of anything. Any conclusion you come to is purely based on your own assumptions and reading of certain lines or scenes. The film intentionally points in multiple directions and can be interpreted in different ways. As the director said this movie is about "A Faulkner character living in a Murakami world."
Wow...this is interesting that we have the same mind.. 👍😲
Spot on. Thank you for doing your research before commenting.
YES. An absolute creation of great minds. I just happened to re-read "The Elephant Vanishes" of Murukami's and this story struck me hard on how it was written. And it never disappoints my curiosity and found this masterpiece film.
did you miss the part where jong su checks out all the greenhouses and they aren't burnt, but ben insists that burned one down? the implication is that the greenhouses are a metaphor for something else. (think back to teh scene where they are discussing what a metaphor is). its heavily insinuated that its a metaphor for killing women, as when jong su asks ben if hes seen hae mi, he says "its like shes gone up in smoke" and further supported by the scene where ben is putting makeup on the new girlfriend. the word for 'makeup' us the same as the word for 'cremation' in Korean
In Chinese "makeup" and "cremation" sound similar also though not the same. Interesting comment.
I looked into it because it got me interested. 화장 (火葬) 하다 = to cremate, 화장품 (化粧品) = makeup. In this case 화장 is shared but the hanja are different. 火葬 is 'fire burial' and 化粧品 is 'change cosmetic product'. But regardless very interesting
I got a clear picture reading the comments, thank u guys. And you did a terrible job .
THIS COMMENT MADE ME LAUGH SO HARD BRAVO
Lol me too
Same
literally same here, i didnt even bother to play out the video
👍
I just rewatched Burning and I caught another brilliant addition. When Ben is stabbed at the end, the camera pans in slightly and you can see Ben shedding one tear before ultimately falling and dying! Watch it again and you'll see it.
What r u trying to say moron.
@@sandeepkishan8674 in the early part of the movie he tell hae mi and jong su he never cry
oooh nice!!!
@@sandeepkishan8674 What's your deal buddy?
@@garudaeagle4122 I forgot about that. Maybe it was just another lie they all tell each other.
I think Ben dies happy because he finally feels some emotion (he cries before dying and he said he had never cried). In a way he was looking for that.
Another detail: Ben was very interested in Jong Su as the future writer of his serial killer story. (I am not sure if this is obvious, I've just thought it now because when they met, Ben even says Jong Su that maybe he could write his story).
True.
Oh I like that point very much. He went out of his way to expose himself to farmers son.
I believe this to be part of the case. Maybe Ben wanted Jong su to write his book about himself since he knew Jong su was eager to solve the mystery. And in an earlier scene, His dad's attorney (I think that's what he was) tells Jong Su that he should write his story about his dad because the protagonist of the story is always "crazy" and its heavily implied that Ben is a socio-psychopath.
He was also specifically interested when Jong Su said he writes fiction.
I got this feeling in the film that Ben somehow knew that he was being followed by jungsu and that he reluctantly showed his true self to him.
Theory: Ben is a sociopath and killing gives him "the bass" feeling that he does not feel normally due to the aforementioned disability. He comments early in the film of how he has never cried; this can further prove how Ben lacks the ability to feel most emotions causing him to commit murder in order to acheive the emotion (specifically joy) that he lacks. At the end of the film, as Jung-su stabs Ben, Ben firmly wraps his arms around Bens body and pulls the knife into himself, finally killing him. Perhaps this was another attempt to feel, as even though the sensation he was feeling was pain, at least it was feeling at all. This may have been the first time he has felt pain, because as mentioned before, he has never cried or felt sadness. Just food for thought and my take on the film.
HE ACTUALLY CRIED WHEN HE GOT STABBED AND CAMERA GOT CLOSER U CAN SEE JUST LOOK CLOSELY!!! for the first time the psychopath shed a tear.
just read ur comments bro. it has more insights than your whole video.
That's true
I just watched this movie and loved all the metaphors! Something that was left unanswered was what was up with the “well” Haemi spoke about. I may be wrong but the “well” might have symbolized the “fall to prostitution and desolation” as haemi was supposedly a prostitute, similar to what can be inferred ab Jong’s mom that ran away and fell to prostitution(what was implied when they met in coffee shop). Because haemi’s family didn’t know of the well but both haemi and jong’s mom knew of it
I thought it just referred to her feeling alone and lost, like no one cared about her. I just thought the part about her saying Jong-Su only ever said she was ugly was a weird contrast. Also, why did Jong-su masturbate to the tower?
blueascetic Jong was disturbed angry and confused, he wasn’t perfect that’s why it’s so interesting, think about it no one normal would just stab someone
OMFG yes! Thanku for connecting this! I assumed it must be cs she was sexually assaulted ir something at 7 bt when his mom said such a well existed i became confused. And the existence of the well reminded me so much of haruki that i knew the story had something to do with it!
I'm not sure about the prostitution part -- I didn't pick up any direct implications of that -- couldn't the credit card debt they both had be explanation enough?
I do like the interpretation that the well was symbolism for their falling into desolation as you described.
When Ben talked about Haemi he dtated she was broke and did not have money to travel that could be why she went into prostitution. She also had condoms under her bed
I propose another theory. Hae-mi set the whole thing up to screw with Jong-su. Why? At the beginning of the movie she tells him that he once called her ugly to her face when they were kids and that was the only time he ever talked to her. She also tells him that that she got plastic surgery - implying that she was not happy with her looks, perhaps she had some serious trauma from Jong-su's words to her. Thus, she plans to take a kind of revenge on him by seducing him and then "disappearing", leaving him sexually frustrated and confused. She just used Ben to help get her revenge. Plus, she disappeared just after Jong-su called her a whore and clearly she was hurt by his words again so she probably thought that was the right time to "leave" him. And her sister or mother mentioned that Hae-mi is great at making up stories, so a lot of what she said was clearly lies, like the cat and probably the well too since Jong-su never found it. Of course, I could be totally wrong :) Oh, and regardless of whether she was the real schemer or Ben was a murderer, I think the final murder scene was all in Jong-su's imagination. This is evident by the scene just before it in which he is sitting at the computer, writing and thinking. Clearly, he was not as violent as his father but he wanted to kill Ben so he put that "ending" into his own story. That's my guess.
What you are saying really makes sense
Getting plastic surgeries is very common in Korea. No wonder she had credit card debt.
I didn't see any jealousy in Jong-soo. He is presented in the movie as a calm, gentle young man, with genuine feelings and, probably, great writing talent.
I think you all are missing an important thing, Jong Su is a Writer, and when he talks to his father lawyer he tells him that he wanted to write some fiction. So haemi ask him to feed her cat while she is away in Africa, so he has plenty of time to write the book meanwhile is in her appartment, the things that happens since haemi "returns" from Africa are actually the trama of the book that he is writing!.. in reality haemi never come back from Africa. (Plot twist, just before the final scene, you can see him writing by the window of haemi's department).
Wow, this is good!
Nice try. But, nope
Hah! The more I dig deep, I see a lot of interesting points to realized on how the story ended. Truly a masterpiece by Lee. Imagine, leaving everyone a posibilities could have happened? The film itself is full of metaphors.
I think the main character, the girl and the other guy is one person. There is a real haemi, but she never really got close to him in that promo scene, it was all his fantasy. Thats why the cat is imaginary and it was really him that owned the dorm, thats why he got in the second time. The other guy was his other personality, his successful self or the guy he wanted to be, and i think he only burned his clothes in that car.
I highly suggest you read the short story it's based upon. It disproves your theory, but still, it is fascinating.
also the mother of Lee Jong-su talks about organ trafficking at one moment, the metaphor ben use about Shin Hae-mi as a green house might be related to that, and it could explain everything about him after that (his lifestyle & the things he says to Lee Jong-su at one moment)
ua-cam.com/video/vetoTUYcNQE/v-deo.html watch this.. Has more depth
Interesting...thats a good assumption
This movie felt so significant in the way it portrayed the enormous gaps between different classes today and how differently each one experiences modern life. This growing state of determinism and nihilism among the privileged upper-class as they approach self-actualization with the convenience financial stability affords them. The apathy they seem to feel as they have no obstacles other than full-filling their personal potential in a world crumbling around them.
And the middle and lower-class having to stay above water and survive without the comfort of substantial income. All while mournfully watching others with more opportunity utilize their free time to work on and find themselves, to ponder the world and existence.
The way the film moves back and forth from an in-the-gutter American Gothic vibe to a more modern and fast-paced vibe in the city is a cool way to emphasize that divide.
Wow, it's the most superficial analysis on this movie.
Yeah, i've just watched the movie and i was hoping to find something about the well that is mentioned in the film.
This is how close minded film students analyze movies
I was so hoping for the ending to be Hae-Mi calling him and his mouth opened even wider than it usually is, thinking to himself "oh shit...."
Yeah, I would figure that Hae-Mi was really just having a trip she didn't tell anyone about lmao
Nah that would be a terrible ending
😂😂😂😂
that's a cheap twist Lol I didn't want that to happen
sounds more like a bad ending from an episode of black mirror
The film is ambiguous on purpose, but it comes down to one of two things. Either: A.- Shin Hae-Mi decided to run off of her own accord. Ben was either oblivious to this decision, or even somehow assisted her in getting away. OR B. -Ben killed her. The deal breaker for me, is the phone call that that Lee Jong Su receives where it sounds as if she is running for her life and then disconnects. If not for this moment I'd be on the fence, but this seals for me that he was chasing her, and eventually killed her.
I love how she asks "what's a metaphor?"
o o f
Yep... "Greenhouse close to you" 🙊
It was never about Greenhouses. That was a metaphor for girls like Hae-Mi.
Am I the only one who thought Ben was a metaphor for depression??? That's why he kills lonely "people", and Jong .. I dont remember his name. Jong was kinda depressive too but ends up beating Ben at the end.
interesting
I'd like to see my idea disproven, but I think most viewers will agree with me. There's no world where Ben didn't kill Hae-mi. While talking to Jong-su, Ben emphasizes that the green house he burned down was to close for him to notice. The only reasonable explanation is that Ben doesn't literally mean greenhouses, and he uses it as a euphemism for murdering young women. The scene where we see Ben and Jong-su meet after Hae-mi's disappearance , there's a new young girl that Ben has his eyes on. It's further revealed that Ben's new cat responds to the name boil, which is established as the name of Hae-mi's cat. Also, we see the drawer in Ben's bathroom that has a bunch of female wrist-ware that is added to after hae-mi's disappearance (ie her death). My thinking is that Ben used greenhouse as a euphemism for vulnerable young woman, and the only reason it came back to bite him was because of a random relationship formed between her and her former bully.
as soon as he pronounced the "s" in "cannes" I knew he had nothing insightful to say
Hahahaahhaha
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is my analysis: The title "burning" somewhat represents the ideology or the other meaning itself.
[BURN #1] I think Hae-mi committed suicide. Based on the last phone call by Haemi to Jong-su, if you hear it carefully she was running while someone was shouting, maybe tried to stop her, definitely on a cliff or dam because the last sound is like the sound of the phone drops in the water (maybe the well represents the cliff or dam). Also as she quotes, she wants to "vanish just like the sunset" , and if you look carefully at the scene the sun is also setting down at the moment and suddenly focuses at the "SUN".
[BURN #2] So Ben has nothing to do with Hae-mi's missing. I think his role is to find people whose life are miserable, got nothing to lose and specially those who lives alone, then push them to their boundaries as to commit suicide. As he quote "he feels ecstatic as he watch them(greenhouses which represents people) burned to the ground".
[BURN #3] And as for the protagonist Jong-su, I think he's just misinterpret it based on what he sees or feel. His burning desire to see Hae-mi made him suspect and kill Ben at the end.
edit: As I've learned, South Korea is one of the top ten countries with high suicide rate.
i agree with the drives to commit suicide angle, especially sense the last thing Jong tells her is "taking off your clothes makes you act like a whore". That way, Ben (and his friends) get enjoyment perversely out of driving these poor girls to the brink of suicide in the river/pond where Jong followed him to. if that makes sense
Great theory. But how about the watch ? Necklace ?
I think the main character, the girl and the other guy is one person. There is a real haemi, but she never really got close to him in that promo scene, it was all his fantasy. Thats why the cat is imaginary and it was really him that owned the dorm, thats why he always seem to get in with no problem, also you see him being masturbated by the girl when he really is masturbating by himself, the sex scene in that room is just him masturbating. The other guy was his other personality, his successful self or the guy he wanted to be, and i think he only burned his clothes in that car. That knife stabbing is like in the black swan, only he didnt really stabbed himself, he was at war with himself. He lived 3 lives, the one in the apartment where he studied but still goes there to free his mind. His dad's home and his condo because he's really successful as a writer.
It’s clear ben killed hae mi. Ben said he never felt sadness, meaning hes a psychopath. Also sais he burns down greenhouses, a greenhouse gives life (to plants) like hae mi gave life to jong su when she met him. Also ben has girls jewelry as trophies in his bathroom and later has the watch jong su gave her, something only they both would’ve known about and an item that was special to hae mi since she cared about jong su. And ben said hae mi disappeared like smoke, suggesting he burned her.
I would say the watch is not definitive - there is a scene in which Jong Su went to talk to Hae Mi's boss and Jong Su noticed a similar watch on her wrist.
@@keithp30 THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one who noticed that. Also, if Hae Mi was dating Ben, it wouldn't be too ridiculous to assume that the boyfriend would hold onto her jewelry/watch. The entire film is about questioning whether things are or are not what they seem, such as the tangerine, the well, and whether or not Ben is the murderer.
It's not clear though. There are no evidence he killed her. I think human trafficking is much more likely.
In the beginning of the film, Hae-Mi tells Joong Su of her new mime job which involved believing in things which weren't actually there. Further adding to the suspicion in her character's words, including the cat and the well.
In fact, Joong Su directly asks Hae-Mi whether he's just supposed to believe in the cat's existence to which she just laughs.
She also says that she feels like disappearing where no one could find her.
The well could symbolise that she is in a darkness of her own.
Adding to this: she also says that she got a plastic surgery done, implying that she's hiding her real face.
She tells Jong Su that he called her ugly in the past to which Jong Su has no recollection.
Maybe, just maybe, she wanted to make him fall in love with her and then hurt him by going out with someone else or entirely disappearing. As if to get her revenge.
The Elephant vanishes is the novella collection where the story is based on comes from, barn burning. That's also a short story by William Faulkner (thus the in-movie reference).
The director said in an interview that he tried to mesh both short stories into one. He also said the movie is about classes in Korea as well as ambiguity.
Also, according to the director, the murder at the end might or might not be real. It might be part of the protagonist's story (the book he is writing).
From what I understand, you've read the short by Murakami. It's implied that the barn is a metaphor for people, just like the greenhouses are metaphore for people. The concept of metaphore is also introduced in the film when they are having pasta at Ben's house.
Your channel's could fill in a really nice and unique niche but I often have the impression you don't do enough research and rather share your impressions. While it's faster, it lacks depth which discourage viewers to check more of your analysis.
I think he dumped her body in Jong Su's barn since it's so similar to the scene in Faulkner's As I Lay Dying where a character burns a barn with his mom's body/coffin and a cow inside.
The plot was pretty simple. You just need to have a criminal mind, look at repeating themes and understand metaphors. By the time Jong-Su went to the restroom I had it figured out.
Ben had a moral indignation toward women he deemed trash. This was clear because he tried to hide his fury when talking how the greenhouses are "waiting to be burned, useless," etc. Very common trait of a psycho who justifies his own immorality with that of others. He collected a trophy from each woman to remind himself of his work to purify the world from trash. While cooking he talked about sacrifices etc. It's quite clear.
His friends might have been part of this (a cult), for it would be too weird if every two months Ben would have a new woman very similar to the others and just claim he doesn't know what happened. We know the women were similar by seeing the new woman being almost identical in her behavior.
What maddened me about the movie was that the main character was so slow and stupid. I would've never let her enter the car the morning they left. Ben had just told with the most clear words that he was going to burn her. Jong-Su had seen the trophies of other women (so mixed in style they couldn't belong but to various women), he laughed after he told him about his love toward her, Ben showed his moral indignation toward the "greenhouses" something that anyonw could see was a metaphor since no one hates actual greenhouses.
Other than the stupidity of Jong-Su, the movie was quite realistic, well done, and mysterious for people not posessing a criminal mind. The ending was satisfactory, the evidence was there to give him to the cops but there was no time since the next victim was to die in matter of days.
Nothing surprised me, which usually means a bad movie for me, but not this time. Despite picking up what was going on I enjoyed it very much.
Yep... He yawns whenever he passed his judgment as well.
This is my absolute favorite movie of all time and watching this review was confusing and blocky and it sounds like you never even watched it. I hope people aren't coming to this as assuming it's a genuine review because this is so half-assed like all the time was spent on editing and no time on actually watching the movie. It is an incredible movie, but it requires attention and a brain with the ability to comprehend what's right in front of its eyes. You don't even have to think that deeply, the beauty of it is that it tells a story without hardly a word spoken. I'm so disappointed in this review. I hardly ever dislike a video, but this one earned it.
I agree! He's so nitpicky and annoying, nd nothing he said was substantial.
@@waterlemon9838 Hes nitpicky about all the wrong things. It's such a good, simple to understand movie when you have at least decent comprehension. I cant stand this guy.
Can you please explain your view of the movie ?
Ben was a murderer and here is why;
Hae-mi's last call has noises of car and someone running and possible falling down on ground. Her murder might have taken place near a highway and body burnt in a greenhouse or an abandoned place.
After her disappearance, Ben never even asked anyone about her. His friends are also use to seeing new chirpy girls getting replaced one by one.
Hae Mi's room after her disappearance starts to look exactly like Ben's house, neat and organized.
The well is only remembered by run away characters like Hae Mi and Jong Su's mother while sane people like the Mayor, Hae Mi's family and Jong Su himself can't remember it.
Her watch appeared in the cabinet where Ben kept souvenirs of his victims.
The shy cat who responds to Boil was a big hint. I feel so bad for the poor pets dying from hunger in houses after their owners meet their end or plain forget about them.
Ben told Jong su that he burns "abandoned" greenhouses as the police never cares about them and he feels as if the greenhouses are asking him to be burnt.
Greenhouse is a place where different varieties of plants can grow and blossom, much like his victims who all seem full of life and potential to grow but he kills abandoned ones as he feels they are not needed.
Ben tells Jong su that Hae mi disappeared like smoke, much like how he described how he burns abandoned greenhouses.
When Jong su asks Ben how he burnt the greenhouse while it was under his watch, Ben says yet he did which also confirms that despite Jon su knew and loved Hae Mi, Ben was still able to kill her and get away without anyone knowing about it.
The large painting also shows a sick obsession of burning and destroying things for no reason.
Jong su like his father destroyed a life and a fancy car in rage. Both never opted for discussion or reasoning.
Overall brilliant movie but the female nudity was lame and added cheapness to the movie.
Love Korean movies.
what about her saying in a restaurant that she just wants to ''disappear'' and how she wanted to fuck Jung as soon as she saw him the one time, and after she came back from Africa, she didn't have any interest in him... The last thing he said to her was that she was a whore.... Ben's secret job could be ''pimping out girls to other countries etc... He says he has no emotions, but as he was getting killed he did cry. Proving he could be innocent
what if jong su was the real killer after all and everything was just his fictional written story to justify it? he's the one who dreamt of the greenhouse burning when he's a child, he's cabinet has full of knives while ben has girly things and actually putting up make up on a girl. Jong su is lonely, ben has social life. The story i imagine is he already killed ben when he followed him on the lake that's why he's so tired after that scene, and he mysteriously had money when he met with his mother.. The rest are just him writing it, making himself the hero while he may have done it out of jealousy.
the greenhouses that ben reffering are the girls he meets. he burn the girls every 2 months and make them disappear like smoke. abandoned greenhouses means lonely girls. the things that jungso saw at the bathroom of ben is from other women victim ben had killed. ben gave jung so a hint before he killed or made hae min disappear. he told him that he will burn a greenhouse that is close or near jungso's place... but in reality, it is the woman that is close to jungso that made disappear.
After reading a few different comments/analysis on this movie, one of the themes is about rich vs poor, and how the rich always get away with their crimes. We get this idea from how the antagonist says "police don't care about this stuff (burning the greenhouse)", and also when his crime (burning the greenhouse again), and supposedly, killing Hae-mi is never demonstrated on-screen. It seems to be suggested, but we can't "catch" him, as he can get away with it. On the other hand, we, the audience, are witnesses for Jung-soo's murder, which is a result of his despair. This, I think, is genius because the director makes the audience become society (kinda?). We and the government tend to idolize the rich more and overlook their crimes, but we sometimes do not empathize with the poor who commits crimes because they are facing a dead-end (which is supported also by the detail of Jung-soo's father, a farmer, is prosecuted heavily for an assault). Lack of antagonist's wrongful conduct and intensifying portrayal of Jung-soo's murder at the same time seems to make this point, to me.
Loved it❤️
Ben was too perfect!! I knew something was wrong!! When a person is too perfect than i must say that the person isn't perfect he acts like hes perfect!!
For all those arguing against it: Jongsu's jealousy and resentment of Ben's lifestyle is subtle, but it's definitely there, and it's instrumental to the film's social themes of the corrosive elements of class structures in contemporary Korea. Why else would there be a subplot about Jongsu's father getting convicted and sent to jail, his mother coming to him for money after neglecting him for 16 years, along with an intense focus on the loneliness and desolation of Jongsu's farm house and his family being in the gutter, juxtaposed with Ben living so lavishly and carefree?? And while it's never explicitly shown... I'm sorry, but it's really not a "toss up" as to whether Ben killed Hae-Mi or not. He almost certainly killed her and is indeed a serial killer as all of the details which unfold clearly (visually) suggest. Ben collects jewlery and distinct items of all the women he's killed as trophies, including Hae-mi's pink watch, which Jongsu finds in one of his drawers (if Jongsu found _only_ her watch in that drawer, I'd be more willing to entertain the possibility that she just left it there, but he finds numerous other items and jewlery, all exclusively from other women...) Ben didn't just coincidentally happen to get a cat right as Hae-mi disappeared; the cat clearly responds to Jongsu when he says "Boil" (and he doesn't say it commandingly; he merely whispers it). Furthermore, think about the metaphorical implications of "burning down greenhouses"--greenhouses that are deserted and fragile are analogous to women who are lonely and vulnerable, like Hae-mi herself.... it's also evident in the scene where Jongsu is at Ben's house with all his friends and sees him yawn; the people around him are relatively uninteresting; nothing more than playthings for his own amusement..
Honestly it's a little irritating and ultimately more reductive that most people who watch this film seem to think ambiguity simply means that nothing is clear and that everything has to be open-ended--that nothing blatantly suggested in the film is evidently true and everything is open to interpretation... so therefore we can't know if Ben is a killer, we can't really know any of Jongsu's intentions or if he was resentful at all, we can't know what happened to Hae-mi, we can't know anything because it's all ambiguous and anyone who pretends to know what really happened is just being pretentious... but like, no... ambiguity is a lot more multifaceted than that, and simply because certain elements of the film are meant to be ambiguous doesn't inherently mean all of them are. Ben is clearly a killer, he killed Hae-mi, and Jong-su was certainly jealous... not just of Ben's wealth but of his relationship with Hae-mi (that much is obvious--at least it should be). The ambiguity lies in what all the events that unfold (especially the final scene) ultimately say about Jongsu as a character, which remains deeply ambiguous and unresolved. And the film is more of a character study around him than it is anything else.
I feel like at this point people are straining for ambiguities in the plot that aren't actually there in order to shape the film in their own image and control the narrative themselves... while missing the point of and crucial distinction between what's perfectly clear and actually ambiguous by the end of the film. think about it this way: with regard to the idea that the ending is a fantasy from Jongsu's book; what reading of the film's story and themes does that support? what does that theory suggest about anything that happens in the film that we don't already know? what actual emotional or thematic weight would that theory hold other than simply reinforcing the idea that IT'S POSSIBLE BECAUSE IT'S AMBIGUOUS! because people just wanna think ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE SO I CAN'T BE WRONG
This movie is a complete misdirect.
Steve Yeun’s character Ben, was nothing more than a lonely albeit cool, generous rich kid, who chooses to escape his boring existence (hence the “yawn” both times he’s with his so called “friends”) by going on soul searching trips around the world, spending time alone by secluded lakes, and cafes, putting makeup on girls and making them feel pretty (possibly gay? After all, we never once see him intimately involved with anyone) and hanging out with people outside of his social circle.
Jongsu on the other hand, exhibits signs of a murderer in the making.
1. He is extremely jealous,
2. He is verbally abusive (calls Haemi ugly and a slut),
3. He is perverted. Dude masturbates multiple times in a girl’s bed, and dreams about burning shit,
4. He’s been aggressive since childhood (burned mothers clothes),
5. He excessively stalks both Haemi and Ben (at home, at the gym, at church, and while with his family).
6. And last but not least, he comes from a fucked up family where his parents have no sense of moral value
In the end, this movie is no more than a story about a cold blooded killer and how he perceives the world around him. That’s my two cents!😜
Joon Kim wow this is brilliant
I never got the feeling Jong-su was a jealous person, sure who wouldn’t like to have an apartment like Ben’s but for me it was more curiosity than jealousy. Also he’s not an aggressive person, he burned his mom’s stuff because his dad told him so, and he called Haemi those things because he loves her and wants to take care of her.
interesting points
I actually thought Jongsu endured much more shit than most people would've tbh. Haemi asked him to keep feeding her cat for days and to even go pick her up at the airport - then she shows up with another partner and expects a ride for both of them. That evolves to her constantly trying to reach him out (and not the other way around) to hang out with him *while* being with her new partner. When Haemi asks Jongsu to go have lunch with her, he even feels the need of asking if there's anyone else coming when he arrives, because the last time (back at the airport) she 'forgot' to mention this important detail, and then she 'forgets' again... Seriously, who would do any of those things? xD At this point, anyone getting dragged to these awkward situations would show some sign of jealously.
I don't think calling someone ugly or a slut is a sign of a murderer in the making by far, nor is him burning his mother's clothes a sign of being aggressive or perverted, since he was forced to do that by his own father when he was a child, and it had no sexual conotation whatsoever. Can't remember him stalking Haemi in the movie also, except for when she goes missing and he actually gets worried and begins his search for her - same point in which he starts stalking Ben out of suspicion of him being criminally envolved with her disappearance.
Regarding 6., I think it's completely the other way around too. Even though it's not exactly the point of the movie, it shows how one's family, financial class or condition doesn't dictates one's character. While Ben seems to have the perfect life and family, there are clues all over the movie that he's a 'cold blooded killer' that keeps women's jewelries (and even a cat) as trophies. Jongsu and Haemi, on the other hand, come from poor families that have somehow abandoned them, are both currently lost in their lives, but still have purity in them while struggling to keep on going.
Your point of view is interesting, but I don't think it's consistent with the actual events that followed up in the movie xD I say this with all respect tho, I just like reading people's views after watching a movie and commenting mine :D
I agree with your take of the movie. We are essentially seeing a decompensation of a murderer but from his viewpoint and ultimately his motivation or warped justification for the killing.
The little summery he made at the beginning showed that he kinda missed the things that we're really portrayed in this movie. His analysis didn't go deep into it and makes it feel like a personal statement or just an explaination of the very obvious.
I don't wanna offend him in any way, it's just my opinion about the video.
Up until the very final scene the only thing that was burning was what was going on in the protagonist's mind and emotions which culminates into actual expression at the end of the film, everything else is up to our interpretation. Christy Lemeir asked Steven Yeun if he knew what actually happened, he said yes, but he will never tell because it was the director's intention for it to be up to interpretation. The brilliance to the film is that it ultimately leaves the viewer burning with a need to know just as it consumed Jong-su.
Maybe the protagonist imagined it all. He was just writing a story.
It is really easy to understand that 'greenhouse' was clearly a metaphor for woman- I mean the word metaphor itself is used several times in the movie!
This is probably the best movie I have seen in years. I just can't get it out of my head.
Here’s my addition: In the scene where they’re eating pasta at Ben’s house he uses a metaphor. Hae Mi doesn’t understand his point and asks what a metaphor is. In response, Ben gives Jong Soo a smirk and tells him to explain (Possibly referring to their “greenhouse” conversation and suggesting that is a metaphor too).
No, it was foreshadowing. The scene comes before the greenhouse conversation. After the greenhouse conversation, Hae Mu and Jong-soo don't talk anymore because he called her a whore.
greenhouse convo was after pasta scene
I…I thought “greenhouse” was a metaphor for women. Thought his “burning the greenhouses” was another way of saying “murdering helpless women.” Especially when the protagonist says he can’t find the greenhouse he lit on fire and the guy says “It’s closer than you think. Sometimes you can’t see something because of how close you are to it.” (Meaning the missing girl.)
Thought that was pretty obvious but maybe not.
Made me chuckle how clueless this "explanation" is. Doesn't even get that it's all about the ambiguity of the plot. Multiple interpretations for Haemi's disappearance are possible. Maybe Ben let her disappear. Maybe she just disappeared by herself because she was in love with Jongsu and too disappointed when he called her a whore. Maybe there are even other legit interpretations. The answer isn't in the movie, it's in the mind of the viewer.
I kinda find it interesting how the ending left the audience interpreting what ever happened to Hae-Mi and that's what irritated me about this movie.
You didn't even understand the movie "we never even see the greenhouse that he was supposedly burning" yeah no shit that was a metaphor..
🙊😂😂
did the events actually occur or was the entire story him writing his novel?
That's up to you to decide
One thing I cannot wrap my head around is that why was Ben surprised in their meet up location when he saw that Haemi was not with him. I mean, that is what Jong-su used to lure him out in the middle of nowhere right? I know that we all assumed that Ben is the killer and he probably kills these girls every 2 months which he even confessed to using that greenhouse metaphor but why was he surprised and even ask Jon-su where Haemi is if he had already killed her? That part kinda confuses me.
I believe that Haemi never actually died. I think that Ben is someone who helps people “disappear” or start a new life. Haemi would’ve wanted to do this because of her large amount of credit card debt. So when Ben says that she dissapeared like a puff of smoke, I think he’s using a metaphor for Haemi leaving. As for the phone call Jong-su recieved which sounded like Haemi running/in danger, I believe that Haemi and Ben staged this so that Jong-su thought that she had died so he didn’t look for Haemi. I believe that Haemi and Ben never actually went/met in Africa - they already knew each other and instead they used that time to plot how they were going to make Haemi disappear. This also explains why Ben had Haemi’s cat - Haemi gave it to him before she disappeared. Also, the woman who Ben was putting makeup on in one of the last scenes was probably the next woman he was going to help disappear, and by putting makeup on her he was making her into a “new person”. Also, I think that he keeps a sort of momento of each person he disappears, which is why there was that draw with all this stuff in it including Haemi’s watch. Haemi left her apartment and suit case behind, neat and tidy, because she was leaving and completely starting afresh. Haemi seemed to continually lie to Jong-su - about him calling her ugly and her falling into the well - in order to start becoming that new person she wanted to become and maybe practice her lying. I think Jong-su knew that Haemi wasn’t dead, and he killed Ben out of pure rage and jealousy, which is why told Ben that he was with Haemi so that Ben would meet him. This is just what I think
@@sarpila1995 That is actually a very good idea. The only one that would clearly connect most of the links, most. Except for the tools and (to some extent) souvenirs. Also there are many possible theories to wrap your head around, such as Jongsu imagining that he does it, how he does it and, but if it is a dream then even more questions are raised. Really good suggestion though, gives more perspectives, different insight into this.
I do not think Ben helps girls, I think he trains them and sells them. The film can be interpreted in several ways, and part of it is a comment about the classes, but my interpretation of what happens with the girls is that it is about women trafficking.
@@sarpila1995 I mentioned this theory in another post but you beat me to it. Yes fully agree, Ben isn't a killer but he helps people start a new life or trafficks them. Jung is either not sophisticated enough to understand or he just hated Ben for the fact that Hae-Mi didn't love him back.
I think "going to Africa" was a trial...each girl would get a trial 2 months at the trafficking destination. And they would return to Korea one last time to say goodbye to important people in their lives. In Hae-Mi's case its Jung. Also I think its part of the plan to make Jung jealous and hate Hae-Mi on purpose because they don't want loved ones lodging a missing report, but instead it had a unintended result.
One thing they didn't plan is that Jung is a psycho. A normal person would have ended their feelings when Hae-Mi stripped danced...but Jung became obsessive and murderous.
S T great theory wow. Just wanna ask how why did it showed ben a psychopath with no feeling of sadness? Why would he brings the girls to meet his friends ?
Im just curious with one thing, why did Ben ask where Haemi is (since prior to the meet up jung soo said he is with haemi) if he is the one who killed her? To taunt? He acts as if he knows nothing approaching jung soo but at the same time the movie strongly hints that Ben killed Haemi. If he really did kill Haemi, wouldnt Ben be more prepared to meet jung soo at the end knowing the circumstances that jung soo caught up with his murder? Or even avoid meeting him
I think it's implied that he wanted him alive to write a novel about him
I disagree that Hae-mi is a manic pixie dream girl. That trope describes a woman character who exists only to be a sounding board for the love interest counterpart. Hae-mi might be childishly optimistic and free spirited, but she exists as a standalone character outside of validating and stimulating growth in the men of the film.
The greenhouses represent the poor desolate women he has murdered.
This has to be the most absurd analysis of this movie ever to date.
So many good ideas in the comment section! For me, everything is speculation because nothing is fact! Here's the different theories:
A) First of all, we're not even sure that Hae-Mi died. We never saw her body. Maybe she had a lot of money issues so she left. Why did she change her lock? One girl at least said that when Jong-Su questioned her (Hae-Mi's mom or sister also said that at the restaurant). And H-M said she wanted to disappear. That's it, the end! Ben's an honest man. Innocent. He really expected H-M to appear at the very end. The movie is just here to mess with our minds like it messes with Jong-Su's! He becomes so shocked that he suspects Ben and eventually kills him.
B) H-M dead. Jong-Su and Ben are one person and thus half of the movie can be interpreted as imagination. J-S is a psychopath killer. His family is broken. Parents absent. Burnt his clothes when little. J-S kills girls every two months. H-M is in the bottom of the lake Ben/J-S visits when they follow each other on top of the hill.
C) H-M dead or gone. Jong-Su suspects that Ben is the killer, kills him, and he was. Killer dead.
D) H-M dead or gone. Jong-Su suspects that Ben is the killer, kills him, and he was not. J-S a killer now.
E, F, G, ...
Key scenes for me that can be interpreted one way or another:
- Jong-Su discovers knives in his house. Either it's his and he's the killer, or he uses one to kill Ben, or his dad's the killer, or it's nothing. Too vague and unsure! 😂
- The scene with the lake, after they follow each other on top of the hill. The moment they come to stare at the water in silence as if they are the same and unique person. It's strange because the next scene J-S is sleeping on his couch. Ben didn't see him on the hill or when he was following him? Really?
In the end, the movie's too ambiguous and it's made on purpose so we assume things we see on screen when maybe A) is the answer and J-S became a killer in the end.
about the knife. those are army knives. jung su's father served in the army
Damn you mapped out all the possible endings right there.
May I add one more.
Ben is rich off human trafficking. He finds desperate girls willing to have plastic surgery and be sold off to a far away place. Plastic surgery so that relatives would never recognize her again if found dead or alive and also to improve their looks.
You can see him with his makeup box as he proceeded to work on the next "girlfriend" whom he was grooming.
Ben isn't bad necessarily but he was an "out" for desperate girls that no one cared for anymore. Burning a greenhouse was a metaphor for giving these girls a new identity and a new life...this burning the old one.
These girls are willing to be trafficked in order to clear debts and start a new life at a new place where no one would know them anymore. And Ben "dates" them for 2 months as a last farewell before leaving for good and these girls would leave mementos (watch) or have a last request (take care of my cat) before they leave.
The phone call Jung gets from Hae-Mi could be Hae-Mi's last call to say goodbye but couldn't bring herself to say anything and just left.
Farfetched I know...but plausible.
you all think it differently, it's neither a subtle killer story nor a revenge story, the whole flim is the writing of jong su and his imagination
I believe that Haemi never actually died. I think that Ben is someone who helps people “disappear” or start a new life. Haemi would’ve wanted to do this because of her large amount of credit card debt. So when Ben says that she dissapeared like a puff of smoke, I think he’s using a metaphor for Haemi leaving. As for the phone call Jong-su recieved which sounded like Haemi running/in danger, I believe that Haemi and Ben staged this so that Jong-su thought that she had died so he didn’t look for Haemi. I believe that Haemi and Ben never actually went/met in Africa - they already knew each other and instead they used that time to plot how they were going to make Haemi disappear. This also explains why Ben had Haemi’s cat - Haemi gave it to him before she disappeared. Also, the woman who Ben was putting makeup on in one of the last scenes was probably the next woman he was going to help disappear, and by putting makeup on her he was making her into a “new person”. Also, I think that he keeps a sort of momento of each person he disappears, which is why there was that draw with all this stuff in it including Haemi’s watch. Haemi left her apartment and suit case behind, neat and tidy, because she was leaving and completely starting afresh. Haemi seemed to continually lie to Jong-su - about him calling her ugly and her falling into the well - in order to start becoming that new person she wanted to become and maybe practice her lying. I think Jong-su knew that Haemi wasn’t dead, and he killed Ben out of pure rage and jealousy, which is why told Ben that he was with Haemi so that Ben would meet him. This is just what I think.
Orlando Alexandru that’s fiction book idea is fun, I personally saw someone here say that Ben didn’t kill people he organised for them to be sold into human trafficking for sexual purposes or what ever it may be, and maybe that’s why he was doing that other new girls makeup, to sell her.
and the comment here also said that he finds girls with no friends and I think since jung was her new main friend Ben was the one calling him to keep tabs on him to know his location or whatever it may be. I personally find that Ben being so rich is from selling women is a fun idea and ties in well with jungs own story within the movie, how he was confused and lost and angry with what was happening within his own experience
I believe that Haemi was convinced, trained, and sold. I think that's Ben's business, trafficking young women. Three moments support my theory: that Lee Jong tells Haemi that only prostitutes get naked in front of two men,
that Ben never makes clear what he does to live, and that Ben is doing makeup for the new girl in a scene near the end.
Adriana Pignolo You reminded me of another korean movie called "bad guy" where it shows that dark side of South Korea. Maybe you saw it already ?
I don't get how so many people bring in human trafficking. I guess you have the right to speculate but it's so random.
화장 is a korean word which can mean both "makeup" and... "cremation". Since he burns young woman, why do you think he was doing makeup for that woman near the end?
I don't think your theory is sound. Do some research.
the thing that confuses me the most, if Ben did kill Hae-Mi, why would he meet Jong-So thinking Hae-Mi was actually there??
Just for "fun" to pretend he doesn't know about where is Hae-Mi and see the agony and sadness in Jong-So.
Maybe. 1. Before the meet, we can see he was like finally writing his story. Maybe his imagining how he be brave enough on what he would want to do serve his own justice. Because people like Ben (if he was the killer) The police doesn’t care about them like ben said. OR 2. Ben want to act everything was fine when Jong-so so ask to meet him and Hae-mi. Then tried to get away but finally accepting the final blow Jong-so stab him like he finally felt pain/sadness? That’s my view on the ending what you guys think ?
To take care of lose ends in the event Jong knows.
Well obviously Hae-mi was a figment of Jong-Soo's imagination all along. And so was Ben. And so was the cat. And so was Jong-soo himself. And so am I. And so are you. The tangerine was real though.
Having read most of the comments here I hear not the arguments and I am leaning towards the ben being the killer arguent,
But I thing that is a bit off flavour for this argument is Jong-Su’s dream about being in front of a burning greenhouse as a kid and also feeing pleasure from it as he smiles subtly before waking up...
And I heard someone mention “ Ben & Jong-Su are the same person read my comments” Well I didn’t come across their comments here but this dream can be a reference to this argument
Since you really dug the movie, you must have appreciated it, but, your interpretation falls short in your dismissal of Jong-su as a jealous sort of loser. There is a good chance that Ben really did kill Hai-mi, in which case there's a good chance that Jong-su is really a hero for avenging her death, out of love, when the police don't care about people like her (the greenhouses being a metaphor for people). You missed entirely the possibility that despite his humble background, Jong-su is right, he really IS the only person who Hai-mi can trust (as Ben quoted her saying), he's very intelligent, and he know the truth.
But, yes, it's ambivalent, and we don't know for sure one way or the other. Nevertheless ,we can't discount that Ben really did murder Hai-mi, in which case your dismissive attitude of him comes across as, well, missing the point in a very big way.
Notice how Ben kept telling Jong-su that he did burn down the greenhouse, and it was so close to him he missed it. Note when he eventually says he burned it. And don't forget the mysterious phone call from Hai-mi where we hear something happening, and which triggered Jong-sus paranoia.
Nice that you like the murderer so much, and the guy who takes vengeance on him you think is just annoying, but, it's probably intended the other way around. Probably. That you could take such a one-sided reading is testament to the quality of the movie. But, maybe you just didn't get around to making that argument. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You sounded pretty damned hard on Jong-su, though, when he may have been the underdog and the hero.
Loved this , keep making them man! And keep highlighting small movies like this. More cinephile content needed !.
This movie was open to interpretation. We all have our green houses to burn and lies to live or perceive! Murder, no murder, cat, no cat, fiction, real event..what difference does it make? This movie kept you thinking long after it ended. One of the best movies on Netflix at the moment.
In the very beginning when Ben is eating with them after being picked up at the airport, Hae-mi was drunk and started crying, he just said that he has never cried in his life. The guy was a sociopath, that totally gave it away, besides connecting all the dots that have been stated in the comments below.
I thought ben, haemi, boiler cat, his mother all from jong su minds because he learn creative writing for his novel.
i think so too, especially the fact that only his mom knew about the well. which means he had to write it into the novel plot that at least someone from the past knows about the well.
I think that this movie is amazing because it suggests so much that leaves you wanting to solve it yourself.
One thing that I found interesting is that when Ben tells Jongsu that he has burned a "greenhouse" that is very close to him. Ben actually means that Hae-Mi is the greenhouse that is burning because Hae-mi was showned to be one of the few close "objects" to Jung-So.
Half way to the the movie where Hae-Mi disappears, I thought that Hae-Mi and Ben are in it to play a cruel joke on Jung So and kind of metaphorically suggests that the autistic cat was an embodiment of Jung So and that he was autistic.
I also think that there was a suggests of homoerotic that I kept picking up that the author of the movies suggests that Ben is into Jungso. This can be seen by the extremely-interested eye contacts and interests when Ben ask Jungso about his personal life. Follows that, When Ben talks with Jungso about Hae-Mi disappearance, Ben said that Hae-Mi saw something special in Jung-So and made Ben a little jealous which Ben himself never feels jealous before. Many audiences thinks that Ben was actually thinking that he is jealous of Hae-Mi affection for Jung-So not in a lover way but in a competetive way toward Jung-So. Additionally, at the last scence of the movie when Jung So stabbed Ben, Ben puts his arms around Jung So neck like he has made a mistake and wanted to get affectionate with Jung So.
This movie definately showcases the aspect of social class by portraying the daily activities of Ben and Jung So. How there so very diffrent world apart yet functioning similarly like cooking and driving. The only thing that sets them both apart are the material availability, comfort, class, beauty, convinence that money could get Ben but not Jung So.
I think that wealth and class can be seen specifcally when the movie shown that Hae-Mi was neck deep in credit debts that her family has to tell her to pay back before she can come home. This is deep because it showcases that money matters to the lower working class even if its a family relationship. This happens almost everywehere and most every in the world where there is a class divided. Money becomes more important and worth more than human life or family life itself.
There was a court scene in the movie that is significant as well. The defendant, who is also presumably poor, was sentenced to 18 months of incarceration for hurting someone's hand in some kind of disagreement. Yet Ben suffers no consequence morally, emotionally, or legally because he is well off. In fact, he seems to be grooming his next greenhouse.Maybe this is reason why Jong Su felt he needed to resolve the issue himself as the society will not help bring about justice for missing and possibly murdered Hae-mi. This shows different attitudes within and towards different classes in the society. I personally did not like the movie slow pace and metaphors in the movie but like you said, it is not for everyone.
This movie was 2.5 hours long and I seriously thought it was short. That's how good it is.
amazing and poignant response to this movie, i just watched this recently and cant convince my friends to watch it, so i was really eager to see other people's response to it. you have gained a sub about of me, really glad i stumbled upon this
Hey! Thank you!
Man was my analysis wrong about this movie. I thought Ben had feelings for Lee jong su, I was preparing for Ben to tell him and for Lee jong su to accept his advancement because of Ben's power and wealth. I thought my feelings were confirmed that Ben was gay when I saw him applying makeup to the woman. He's a popular makeup artist and that is how he got his money. Throughout the movie Lee jong su wanted to constantly see Lee jong su, inviting him to parties, even Shin Hae-mi stated going to Lee jong su's house was Ben's idea. Ben was constantly smiling at Lee during the parties and then followed him out to his truck and placed his hand on his heart. At the end when he was dying in Lee jong su's arm, you can see a warm embrace.
This sounds like a good analysis to me. I love how the movie is so open to interpretation
Didn't occur to me. Interesting take, though. And I'm sure it was intentional.
He is a predator, not gay. Bad analysis, mate.
@@Nimberethso say you
I felt like Ben kinda knew that Jong Su was suspicious about it, he wasn't that...discrete. he actually said that Jong Su needed to feel the rush, maybe he saw something in Jong Su? Or maybe he wanted to be caught, o maybe he was so narcissistic that he wanted that Jong Su could write something about him
Maybe hae-mi just represents his mother, a woman he is drawn/attracted to but ultimately leaves. Maybe Ben just represents the part of him that is damaged by his mother leaving, who lashes out (burns greenhouses) because of his pain. Maybe the end is him finally moving on by destroying that part of himself. Who knows, great movie anyway.
Best one .this made me satisfied
hey, so I just wanted to say that there was no greenhouse burning but the greenhouse is a metaphor for the victims of Steve Yeon's character. We can infer this as he says he burned the greenhouse to the mc but we clearly know there was no burnt greenhouse near his house but he was actually referring to the mc's girlfriend that is near to mc. We also can confirm that Ben actually did kill the mc's girlfriend as the mc gets a call by Ben and screams can be heard. We also see the girl's house tidy and cleaned up but the mc says that the girlfriend is not the type of person to clean her house so we can assume that ben cleaned the house and takes the cat. We can see that after killing the mc's girlfriend ben finds his another victim who works in a shop.
you assume too many things. jong-su took too many leaps in logic to really believe ben is a serial killer. ben could have just been messing with jong-su and hae-mi is still alive. none of the evidence is definitive. indeed, the whole movie is about the absence of evidence and acting as if there was. or, rather, forgetting there wasn't any evidence at all.
@yummy31419265 You're absolutely correct. The topic creator assumes way too many things which really does simplify this movie a bit too much. Not to say I am one of those elitist movie types that feels that only one view of a movie is correct, but the intention/idea of this movie is how far would a person go without knowing the definite truth/facts behind something... and in the case of the main character, he goes to the extreme for something that he isn't sure of.
While I do feel that there is plenty to suggest that Ben may be the reason for Hae-mi's disappearance, there is still enough evidence lacking to clearly say he is responsible. Keep in mind that you're watching a movie that clearly makes it's themes known: isolation, depression, and identity. All of the three main characters show signs of isolation in varying forms (oneperhaps even by choice or by just not feeling a connection with people)... there is a lot to take in with this movie and I have to admit that it may be a discredit to just say it is as simple as "he did it."
Knox's analysis is plausible and possible, but the truth is unknown.
I just want to say one thing... the cat responding to it's name isn't necessarily anything concrete which I think may have been the point. I am the biggest animal lover... dogs, cats, anything... but I think a large percentage of animals (like cats) may respond at times to any name. It running right to the guy may have just been something to throw you off. Just my two cents on that as I find it debatable like so much in the movie.
The women, as you noted, appear to be similar and Ben shows his lack of interest pretty obviously. However, to just say that it means he has an ulterior motive isn't necessarily true. He can very well just be bored. There are plenty of people out there who keep a lot of people around them but have no real connections to anyone... almost like they are just keeping up the appearance of being a "normal" person. The most interesting scene with Ben is when the lead character just finds him standing on top of that hill looking out at almost nothingness... is he lonely or revisiting the site of some past murder... not enough to make a concrete answer.
I think we should bring real life into this - most cat lovers would probably agree to this that cats can really have a mind of their own. You're right in that the director is communicating something to the audience... and that something is ambiguity; it isn't a definite answer to anything. I'm not sure why you wouldn't try to bring real life into this when this movie is actually pretty damn grounded in it's portrayals of almost everything.
How would you explain the fact that he never saw a cat in Hae-mi's apartment? Sure, the food was eaten... but to say a cat ate it is still, by definition, an assumption. You need concrete evidence before saying a cat ate it. I have met dogs who have eaten cat food out of pure boredom.Again, I am trying to make a point and it is that there is intentional uncertainty in this movie at all corners. For all of the people that say there was no well in his neighborhood, one person... his mother... says there was one. But no facts were given as the lead characters tries to find one and nothing comes up.
I wish more American films would take tips from these recent Korean films I’ve seen
The Wailing and “Burning” They have the strongest pacing I’ve EVER SEEN. That’s how in my mind films should be paced... The endings are the most exhilarating parts of these films... Korean films got some great pacing this year. Damn love it! So mysterious love how it keeps us in the same state of mind as the protagonist. Longing for a sense of closure.
I don't think Ben was a murderer. I think he was a human trafficker thus why he was traveling around, scoping out woman and ALWAYS having another gf. They spoke about metaphors in one scene and I think when she spoke to him about wells that was a COMPLETE metaphor, though when ben was talking about the "greenhouses" I think those were metaphors for woman and taking everything away from them.
I truly believe this is a masterpiece becasue your perception changes based on your own life experiences.
This movie is like a Rorshak test.
hi, i appreciate your analysis. i just would like it even more if you start directly from the 1:28 without the introduction. Just the analysis. Thanks for sharing.
We appreciate the feedback and the view!
Ben took girls that wanted to create a new life & taught them how to do that.
Burning Greenhouses was their old life.
The bracelets were girls he had taught how to create a new identity.
That's why they went away together to begin the process.
Shin Hae-mi says at the start she just wants to run away & start a new life.
I don't even think Shin Hae-mi was someone Lee Jong knew growing up. It was a test to see if she could be so convincing in her new life that someone would fall in love with her. Hence
the well she talked about that didn't exist or how none of the locals knew her.
Once she had proven that she dissapeared.
The footsteps were so Lee Jong would stop looking for her.
The make up scene & the new girl at the party is also part of the process of starting the new life.
I also think Ben was gay
Looking through all the replies and everyones' analyses and I finally found yours' which with I agree the most with. I don't think Ben was a killer at all. With the hints of the metaphors, Haemin saying she wishes she could disappear and never have lived, and the scenes where we see Haemin's wristwatch and Ben doing her makeup, I think Ben was giving Haemin a new chance at life by altering her identity completely and allowing her to 'disappear.' Jongsu is consumed by jealousy and anger and misinterprets the situation entirely, even though all of the hints are presented right in front of him.
Ben and Hae-mi are really one person that embodies the good and the bad that represents Jong-Su's world.
He did murder the girl... The first time in Ben's house when they talk about metaphor, foreshadowing the greenhouses and the girls he murders every 2 months when Ben talks about its high time he burns another greenhouse (aka another girl ) ...
Good analysis man. It's such a good movie right? I agree with your take that it is as much about Jongsu crumbling under social pressures, family history, etc. as it is about the murder plot. And given Ben's guilt is ultimately ambiguous, as you say, Jongsu's inability to properly solve the mystery before exploding in violence is pretty tragic.
If you enjoyed this movie, watch The Invitation. It's another slow-burn movie with a dark plot ending that will leave you shocked.
The Invitation was far more pretensious than good!
I have a completely different take on the movie. At the end I felt that the guy was no serial killer but that he helped girls die. Remember the girl was really happy after smoking drugs and started dancing with her tits in the air?, then all of a sudden she started crying?, and the supposed serial killer's new grirlfriend was always happy and in the final scene he is painting her lips and she is sad with teary eyes? Also the guy was not the serial killer type, he had lots of friends, went to lots of parties, he was very trusting, etc. I think he killed him by mistake.
I think ben doesn’t kill hae mi but helping haemi to “transform” to the new person..the new gf..there’s a scene where he was painting the girl’s face. Haemi things Is in his house because she lives there. Ben like Jongsu more than a friend..the way he touch him. The cat is another prove that haemi lives at ben’s place. And the way ben yawns when the new girl was talking just like he yawns when haemi was telling stories..i think ben was helping to get plastic surgery and to be different. .....
You’re an idiot
I like this movie more and more as I keep thinking about it. Crisp and clear analysis 👍
Why is he so interested in her closet near the beginning?
great question
What closet please ? I don’t remember which part of the movie
Arsyad Rafiq i believe the scene when he was having sex with her, he kept looking at the closet.
I found this shot very intriguing too.
I feel like another big reason for why Jong-su began to hate Ben was because Ben reminded Jong-su of his father. Jong-su admits to Ben that he hates his father while they are both smoking outside. During the film multiple people talk about how Jong-su's father was unbelievably prideful, and that it ended up being one of his biggest weaknesses. I feel like Ben embodies many of these same traits through his cocky demeanor, which ends up fueling Jong-su's motivation to get rid of him.
Loved this movie. So so thought provoking and it was amazing to see how much of the story was told without words. I loved how Jong-su's emotions were never flatout given to us; it allowed for so much of his story to be told through things like his facial expressions and actions.
I was expecting a more in-depth analysis of the movie but this pesudo-intellictual review of the film just scratched the surface.
There was some vibes of Twin Peaks when I watched. I think the director was inspired by David Lynch.
Shocking to see how many people fell for the way too simplistic „Ben killer her“ theory when the director placed so many subtle clues as to why he didn’t.
clues like what?
The Higher Space The fact that Ben didn’t lock his trophy casket. That it is just something in the bathroom for every guest to find (he had a ton of guests, a serial killer would be a bit more secretive about evidence laying around in his loo, don’t you think?). In the 3rd act, Ben actually took the casket out and didn’t mind the new girl seeing it when he put the makeup on her. Then there is Ben not bringing a weapon when meeting Lee Jong-su in the end and being so taken aback by the knife attack. The director let the audience think that Ben KNEW that Lee Jong-su was onto him, that’s what made the end so suspenseful. So Ben would be prepared if he was to meet Lee at a deserted place at dusk. No. The director showed the audience zero evidence for Ben being a murderer (at the same time not hesitating a second showing us Lee‘s misdeeds (trying to set fire to a greenhouse, breaking into his friends apartment, wanking off there repeatedly, actually murdering someone and premeditatedly getting rid of all the evidence!). There‘s more. Also, I daresay most murder victims don’t just pack up all their shit and leave nothing back in their aparment before a disappearing.
Surie Wurie I just replied. Thanks for your lovely comment.
@@retob.83 This is an analysis if you're considering Ben a normally functioning individual but with the desire to murder women; this is not the case in this movie. It is very clear that Ben is in fact a psychopath who is devoid of normal human emotions such as love or fear. I'm not going to go through and explain all of his actions based on his condition but just consider that psychopaths are VERY narcissistic and thus sometimes feel the need to brag about the crimes they've gotten away with, maybe through small hints like leaving his mementos in an accessible place.
Gergin Ivanov It is in fact not at all clear that he is a psychopath. Where is your evidence to back that claim? None of your comments back that notion.
Lee Chang Dong is amazing. He gives you a chance to reflect and he speaks up about issues that is happening through a movie.
Okay so here is what happened, the girl suicides, Ben gets killed because he owns a cat and has a bunch of stuff in his bathroom drawer including that pink watch.
Can anyone talk about the pictures stuck on the fridge and lil every where? And about the scene when they were doing it he was staring at the wall in front of him (it s like there was something behind it)???these missing part can be important too