My father was a Civil War historian and read me stories of when in combat from a static position, soldiers would often not replace the ram rod, but quickly skewer it into the ground in lieu of placing it back into the gun to save time. Not proper manual of arms, but when trying to get off as many rounds as possible when under fire, I imagine every second counts.
I have no idea of the historicity of this practice, but I used to shoot in N-SSA competitions, which are five minute relays of fire where a team tries to clear a board of reactive targets (usually clay pigeons) as fast as possible with civil war muskets. When I did NSSA, we used to stick our bayonets in the ground and lean our ramrods on them in the crook of the end between shots. It was much, much faster than attempting to put them back in the rifle every time.
I recall a video from Cap and Ball where he had a napoleonic Jaeger rifle and kit, and instead of having the ram rod on the gun, it had a large bulb on one end and hung through a ring in the kit. When he loaded, he just grabbed it by the bulb, rammed it, and returned it. It looked significantly faster than fumbling around to get the ramrod on and off of the musket.
When I first started the video I thought that an inline capper and not returning the rod to the rifle might make it possible, but after seeing how fast the spinner dies, I don't think it would be enough.
Agreed. I didn't think it was possible, but watching Karl try it with that much speed did bring to light some thoughts on the nature of Early Modern musketry--First just the desperation a soldier might have trying to squeeze another shot in before the enemy closes in for a charge. More importantly, though, the value of battle-hardened soldiers in situations of urgency. A corp of soldiers who can properly load and fire a musket not just with haste when it is needed, but to load PROPERLY with the terror of a modern battle unfolding around them could absolutely be the difference between victory and defeat on the steadfastness of their musketry alone. It's wonderful to be able yo see a rough reenactment of that with ones own eyes.
When I shot NSSA competition, we used plastic tubes that we'd fill with powder and then place the ball on top. To reload, no paper, just pull out the ball, stick tube in barrel and invert, pour in powder, put ball in end of barrel, ram home, throw ramrod at ball to seat, when it bounces grab it, pull it out, then set it on the ground leaning against the bayonet, planted in the ground - we never reseated the ramrod into the rifle on the clock. Doing that, I could get off 4-5 shots in a minute, as a 16 year old moving as fast as I could. Obviously this isn't historically accurate, those plastic tubes didn't exist, and in real combat we'd have been screwed if we had to move fast and both our bayonets and ramrods are on the ground rather than on our person, but it was much faster on the clock, and I wonder if it's possible to spin the spinner that way.
Holy crap that was amazing! You could actually see the ball leaving the barrel! Excellent video as always Karl! You are my favorite guntuber, keep it up with the great content!
You can really see why the bayonet is one of the most important features of these old rifles. You can really cover a lot of ground by the time it would take to reload.
This would have been a good opportunity to handicap with a squirt of 5w-30. Even then, it would take an absolute master to even have a chance. I doubt it's even possible with a front stuffer. This is a great demonstration of the absolute technological dominance of repeating firearms.
@@GMdrivingMOPARguy much like the 1861 Springfield or how about the 1841 Mississippi rifle conversion or the Kentucky rifles I gotta say I love them all
This one was the best one so far even though it failed. Super interesting. I used to own 3 of those Enfields, a Musketoon, a rifle and a Zouave, had never known about the Pritchett cartridge until now. 👍
This was incredibly informative! What was learned from adding stress to the equation really demonstrates an aspect of the civil war that could easily be missed.
This was hilarious and that mishap actually made it all the more illuminating. We don't always consider the field failures of Civil War-era firefights. You can only imagine the last thought of poor Johnny after he pulled that trigger... And then it hits him.
A most interesting demonstration. Superb determination in the face of impossible odds and also a good way of showing the difficulties presented in combat once ordered fire broke down into skirmishing.
I'd love to know how a Snider-Enfield would do, considering that it is the breech loading conversion of this rifle. The contrast in speed would be interesting to observe to show how much of an advantage such a system has over the traditional muzzle loader.
This video is definitely a 'GO!' from a historical viewpoint! Your struggle makes the stress of maintaining fire while _under_ fire much easier to visualize. A repeat with yourself, Russel and Ian 'firing by ranks' should spin the plates easily.
So the spinner acted as a stressful situation. Multiply this by say 20 or 30 times in a Company of men and you would see them lose their position or even their lives at the hands of an onrushing enemy. Very interesting stuff Karl
What you are saying is true about soldiers loading multiple charges in rifles happened on both sides. Not just with the Enfield rifles in particular. The battle of Gettysburg at Devil's Den, Antietam, Nashville, and other Civil War battlefields. Infantrymen on both sides were focused on what was in front of them during combat. As they fired and loaded they kept their eyes focused as they moved forward or retreated and tried to keep from getting shot in combat when they see their comrades falling left and right of them. The British Infantry who were equipped with these rifles in Crimea during the 1850s were much more effective because they were much more of a professional army than the Russians. The British had emphasized accuracy in volley fire exercises at longer ranges and platoon and company reloading exercises for maximum firepower and accuracy. Very true with British, Indian Sepoy, and Gurkha soldiers in India with Prichard cartridges. The only general who maximized the effect of the Enfield was Confederate General Clayburn who was fighting in Tennessee. He was a veteran of the British Army in Crimea. The Enfield rifle musket is effective in combat with the infantryman trained on the use of it's sights and trained to ignore the volleys incoming and load properly under command by an officer or NCO. Very difficult under combat conditions. I got this from watching British Muzzleloaders. He is fantastic explaining this.
What a neat test--you're right, it really highlights the time pressure. When I first saw what you intended I thought it sounded silly until I realized how the time pressure was really communicated. It might be more fun to try it with a fast-loading carbine, such as the Smith.
I don't know that two rifles would be quite enough. Three should get it over and likely have the first rifle reloaded in time if a fourth shot is needed.
I love the idea of volley firing to spin the spinner! I think finding out how many shooters it would take to spin the spinner would be a really interesting thing to find out.
I'm happily surprised by the spinner series. I was worried it was going to become monotonous, but this has had some really interesting lessons and twists :D
I'd be curious to know what the lowest-tech firearm that can actually spin this target is. I'm thinking you *might* be able to pull it off with a single-shot breachloader, if you drilled well enough.
I'm pretty sure he has done it with a single shot breechloader. I can't find the video for the life of me right now but I can clearly remember him doing that.
He spun the target with a breech loading double barrel shotgun. I think he used birdshot. Breech loading single shot rifle martini henri would be easier.
If anyone could make this I'd bet on Brett from Paper Cartridges or Rob from British muzzleloaders being the people to do it, and that still seems unlikely.
Speed is easy… hitting that tiny little target after basically doing a form of Civil War CrossFit to load the thing… another matter! I might try it, if I can rig a spinner.
If defending and stationary, some soldiers would skip the step of returning the ramrod and stick it in the ground for easy accessibility. Even taking a second or two off reload times is an advantage.
@@InrangeTv Could place it in an assistant's hand as a substitute though. You're still only going to shave 4-5 seconds though, it looks fumble but it's not taking that much time... the spinner's winding down completely in the time you did use. Only thing I can think of that would improve the reload time here is a shorter rifle (one "arm throw" length for the rod), maybe maynard tape priming if you can get one to actually work, and flash paper wrapped drop-in cartridges (which nobody had at the time) with undersized minies.
The spent cap should not be removed after directly firing. Two reasons. The first reason is that you could create the "chimney effect" by allowing air to flow from the nipple to the muzzle. This could fuel an ember that could possibly ignite the powder as you are loading. The second reason is that you are costing yourself more time by visiting the hammer/nipple on two separate events. First visit was after firing and the second visit is when you actually primed the nipple. After ramming, go to the hammer, pull it back and then grab/insert the cap.
I think this is an excellent example as to show why discipline and proper training often play a bigger hand in actual combat than technology, tactics, or numbers. If a unit is able to maintain proper discipline to keep a steady rate of aimed fire, they could wipe the floor with a poorly trained ad hoc militia type unit
I would like to see this done with progressively larger calibers to see if it can be spun in one shot I’m mostly thinking of the many dangerous game calibers
Karl I would be curious to see you pick a caliber in the other direction: what's the MOST capable of spinning the spinner? Since momentum is conserved in a collision but kinetic energy isn't, I would think a heavy and slow bullet would be the way to go. A .45-70 would work great but I think a 12ga slug might be even better. Comparing a 1oz (440 gr) 12 ga slug at 1500 fps against a 5.56 55gr at 3,000 fps, the slug has 2x the kinetic energy but 4x the momentum. IE, 1 hit with the slug imparts the same momentum to the spinner as 4 hits with 5.56, without waiting for the spinner to be in the right position and without losing energy to friction during that waiting. 12 ga slug video? I'd love to see it!
With the greatest of respect, from a P53 shooter and someone who shot cannons for a number of years in the UK, when dealing with a hangfire the last thing you should do is tap the muzzle twice with your finger. It is a case of recap and try again, if nothing happens point the rifle in a safe position and wait. If the charge decided to go off you could have lost the tip of your finger. Also it is safer to seat the ram rod with your little finger, not the palm of the hand, as you know black powder is unstable and if there were embers in the the barrel the charge could potentially go off and blow a hole your hand. After a while with nothing happening a little nip of powder can be poured into the nipple another cap put on and try again. Sorry to be one of those people, l love what you guys are doing with this channel and I wound love to see a controlled, safe, experiment to see if three shots a minute can be fired under stress.
This does bring about an interesting line of thinking. If the Confederacy had a supply of these early in the war, one wonders if that might have contributed to their early battlefield success. If it did, it couldn't have been a huge contribution, but a few seconds shaved off a reload adds up over time.
Not necessarily. I mean yes, but the advantage would pale in comparison to the advantages the Union had at those same battles. Better supplied, fed, massed artillery/rifle production. There were whole confederate brigades still armed with muskets. The battlefield successes were a result (in the east) of the Confederate command's brilliancy with regards to Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, and a plethora of talented officers and NCOs.
And also, Mexican-American war experience also contributed to the Confederacy's early war experience, as many of the officers and some rank/file were veterans of that war. Confederate soldiers had a lot more hunters/rural folk per capita which made firearm drills easier and more natural for them.
@Robert Stallard is now with the minie balls of the American Civil War the greased bit were the grooves of the back end of the minie ball and it was a mixture of tallow or lard with beeswax.
I would be interested to see if the the most well trained person would be able to do it. The person who own paper cartridges managed to get off 4 shots in a minute with his p53, how well aimed they were I don’t know, but I would assume his level is as close an allegory as is possible for the elite soldiers of the day. Great video!
As a point of interest, you did technically fire 3 rounds in 60 seconds, and with enough room to spare that you could have taken a little bit more time with the third one in order to prevent that undercharge. 3 rounds in 60 seconds was the standard that the Continental Army was expected to maintain during the Revolutionary War, whereas irregular militia were really only expected to manage 2 shots in that same 60 seconds.
Multi task with your hands. Keep 1 or more cartridges in your left hand with the loading funnel facing towards you, 1 or more caps in your right hand. As soon as you fire, recock and replace cap while your still in the firing position... (Your hand is only inches away, not feet away, you are prepared to fire as soon as your reshouldered); drop the stock while catching it with your foot and sliding your left hand towards the open end of the barrel; tear off; charge powder, while your right hand is pulling the ram rod; flip cartridge and push in barrel; ram; reshoulder; fire .... Repeat.
Wow that was a great demonstration of pressure and the effects of fine motor skills. If you do it again, I would think your best chance would be using 2 rifles and a loader (someone with fast hands) and alternate between rifles. I still don’t think it would be fast enough to spin the target, but I think that would be your best option.
Very interesting result Karl, would you be willing to try again with New York reloads? you could have 5-10 loaded muskets on a table in front of you and rather than trying to reload the musket just set it down and grab another preloaded musket. I would be interested to see if the spinner is possible using this method. Thanks again for the excellent and informative content.
It would be very interesting to see if 2 people, firing alternatively, could get it to spin. If not 2, then 3 perhaps. What ROF out of a Civil War era musket would it take? Please, I'd like to see that vid.
Excellent attempt! One thing that might help - I know British soldiers in the Napoleonic wars would stick the ramrod in the ground rather than try and re-seat it every time, saving valuable seconds each shot. Your spinner was still swinging each time you started with the ramrod, so it's possible you _might_ be able to make it.
Any British soldier would have been well ‘beasted’ by his corporal for such behaviour long before he saw battle. A well practiced soldier can put the rod back properly as fast as you can reach for a rod stuck in the ground and you are buggered if you are moved before you can pick it up. Practice ad nauseam makes the whole process automatic.
@@johnfisk811 I'm sure many would be "beasted", but I've read many accounts of battle and it certainly happened. Perhaps more frequently amongst skirmish lines than line companies - corporals not so nearby to "beast" them!
I may be a little late to the party on this one, but I’d be interested to see the two person volley that you mentioned in the video. Either that or a two person team, one loader and one shooter. I’ve heard that often in combat soldiers would pair up and as one soldier aimed and fired the other reloaded the spare rifle. Once loaded they swapped rifles and continued the process. I wonder if that could take the spinner
Karl the very first hit almost knocked it over. Had there been another rifleman ready to hit it again by the time you fired your second shot I suspect it would have gone over if they did not knock it over. Very interesting series you are doing looking at spinning it with different historical firearms.
Would it be possible to load without the ramrod by bumping the shoulder stock on the ground? Apparently the Voortrekkers (I'm speaking from a South African perspective) used to load whilst galloping on horseback - powder charge down the barrel, bump the stock, bullet down the barrel, bump the stock, fire and repeat. If I'm not entirely mistaken, this form of reloading was also replicated in the British TV series "Sharpe"
Hi I love the smell of gunpowder in the day 😁😁😁😁 Karl that was an epic try Just in my opinion it was impossible to do as you said to spin it it would take two muskets , volley fire? Maybe one then the other fired as the first one reloads would work too Keep up with the excellent informative quality content. Bestest from Scotland
Looking closely, you had skipped over the cartridge entirely and loaded just the percussion cap. The point is the same though, In the heat of battle mistakes are made. This video was fun to watch!
Bravo. Good effort that man. Well done. Were these 0,568” or 0,550”? The cartridge should allow you to push the bullet in easily before snapping off the powder case and not need hitting with the hand. I never had that issue when I was using these cartridges.
Love the video. Would you be able to spin the spinner with a Snider or Trapdoor Springfield? Have you already done that video? I may have missed it, but I’ve made a good effort to watch all your videos. Great videos, than you for all your hard work.
I'd be interested to see this attempted with a breach loading cavalry carbine or something similar. I think that would be the type of civil war era firearm with the best chance of flipping a spinner.
You should try a 1842 Springfield smoothbore. It's a .69cal But I found that if I used .65 ball and "spit loaded" I could hit a man size target 5 times in 1 min at 50 yards. So you might be able to hit a spinner at 25.
It would be interesting to see how many people would be needed in volley fire to match one person with a trap door and then trap door to a lever action gun, all of similar power (powder charge & bullet weight) ,to spin the target.
I use that type of paper cartridge in my Enfield, practicing rapid fire is really fun, and confuses the standard black powder target shooters at the range no end.
My father was a Civil War historian and read me stories of when in combat from a static position, soldiers would often not replace the ram rod, but quickly skewer it into the ground in lieu of placing it back into the gun to save time. Not proper manual of arms, but when trying to get off as many rounds as possible when under fire, I imagine every second counts.
I have no idea of the historicity of this practice, but I used to shoot in N-SSA competitions, which are five minute relays of fire where a team tries to clear a board of reactive targets (usually clay pigeons) as fast as possible with civil war muskets. When I did NSSA, we used to stick our bayonets in the ground and lean our ramrods on them in the crook of the end between shots. It was much, much faster than attempting to put them back in the rifle every time.
I recall a video from Cap and Ball where he had a napoleonic Jaeger rifle and kit, and instead of having the ram rod on the gun, it had a large bulb on one end and hung through a ring in the kit.
When he loaded, he just grabbed it by the bulb, rammed it, and returned it. It looked significantly faster than fumbling around to get the ramrod on and off of the musket.
When I first started the video I thought that an inline capper and not returning the rod to the rifle might make it possible, but after seeing how fast the spinner dies, I don't think it would be enough.
Explains a few things
yeah, my first thought when he took the rod out - stick it into the ground in between shots
This was more interesting than I was expecting. And by this point I basically expect everything on this channel to be at least somewhat interesting.
Agreed. I didn't think it was possible, but watching Karl try it with that much speed did bring to light some thoughts on the nature of Early Modern musketry--First just the desperation a soldier might have trying to squeeze another shot in before the enemy closes in for a charge. More importantly, though, the value of battle-hardened soldiers in situations of urgency. A corp of soldiers who can properly load and fire a musket not just with haste when it is needed, but to load PROPERLY with the terror of a modern battle unfolding around them could absolutely be the difference between victory and defeat on the steadfastness of their musketry alone. It's wonderful to be able yo see a rough reenactment of that with ones own eyes.
@@engar-dug5197 agree
When I shot NSSA competition, we used plastic tubes that we'd fill with powder and then place the ball on top. To reload, no paper, just pull out the ball, stick tube in barrel and invert, pour in powder, put ball in end of barrel, ram home, throw ramrod at ball to seat, when it bounces grab it, pull it out, then set it on the ground leaning against the bayonet, planted in the ground - we never reseated the ramrod into the rifle on the clock. Doing that, I could get off 4-5 shots in a minute, as a 16 year old moving as fast as I could.
Obviously this isn't historically accurate, those plastic tubes didn't exist, and in real combat we'd have been screwed if we had to move fast and both our bayonets and ramrods are on the ground rather than on our person, but it was much faster on the clock, and I wonder if it's possible to spin the spinner that way.
This would be an amusing collaboration with Rob from British Muzzleloaders - the spinner challenge, volley fire edition!
The first try could be even more amusing if they shot at the same time, but don't communicate if they shoot at the upper or lower target.
*cue video editing as many many Robs form a line of Infantryrobs*
I was just thinking the same thing
@@wesleygay8918 McKenzie, are we missing something?
@@LeminskiTankscor if you are, I have no idea what it is
Holy crap that was amazing! You could actually see the ball leaving the barrel!
Excellent video as always Karl! You are my favorite guntuber, keep it up with the great content!
You can really see why the bayonet is one of the most important features of these old rifles. You can really cover a lot of ground by the time it would take to reload.
Smartly done! Glad to see another convert to the Pritchett. Once you shoot an Enfield cartridge, you never want to go back to Minies…
The number of people in the volley needed to spin the target would be a neat indicator of how much deadlier a repeater makes you
I would love to see an experiment to determine how many people with muskets it takes to spin the spinner
This would have been a good opportunity to handicap with a squirt of 5w-30. Even then, it would take an absolute master to even have a chance. I doubt it's even possible with a front stuffer.
This is a great demonstration of the absolute technological dominance of repeating firearms.
If only the Austro-Hungarians had access to this video prior to the Battle of Sadowa.
Not only repeating firearms, self contained cartridges. I bet you can do the spinner with a springfield trapdoor.
There is something so endearing about rifle muskets, completely obsolete in every way but I still love them they are beautiful weapons
I think it’s the mechanical aspect and all the work that is involved to operate
I find them fascinating as well
Never obsolete if your other and only alternative is a sharp stick and stones
@@pablofalcao1700 only is the key word for sure
@@GMdrivingMOPARguy much like the 1861 Springfield or how about the 1841 Mississippi rifle conversion or the Kentucky rifles I gotta say I love them all
I do respect you're showing the ones you can't do as well as the ones you can.
This one was the best one so far even though it failed. Super interesting. I used to own 3 of those Enfields, a Musketoon, a rifle and a Zouave, had never known about the Pritchett cartridge until now. 👍
Well done! We learn as much from the tests that fail as we do from those that are successful.
Content like this is what makes InRangeTV so great. Because you sure as hell aren't getting it anywhere else. Keep up the great work!
Karl putting that ramrod back in after each shot. Because professionals have standards.
This was incredibly informative! What was learned from adding stress to the equation really demonstrates an aspect of the civil war that could easily be missed.
This was hilarious and that mishap actually made it all the more illuminating. We don't always consider the field failures of Civil War-era firefights. You can only imagine the last thought of poor Johnny after he pulled that trigger...
And then it hits him.
Just needed a follow-up bayonet charge for the complete rotation! 😉 👍
A most interesting demonstration. Superb determination in the face of impossible odds and also a good way of showing the difficulties presented in combat once ordered fire broke down into skirmishing.
I'd love to know how a Snider-Enfield would do, considering that it is the breech loading conversion of this rifle. The contrast in speed would be interesting to observe to show how much of an advantage such a system has over the traditional muzzle loader.
Rob from British Muzzleloaders did a side by side. No spinner, but shooting on the clock.
ua-cam.com/video/YCC9a10anTo/v-deo.html
Like you always say, running things on the clock (in the spinner in this case) really lets you see the weaknesses in certain systems
I applaud the attempt. Absolute mad lad.
This is the best tactical content ever devised
This video is definitely a 'GO!' from a historical viewpoint! Your struggle makes the stress of maintaining fire while _under_ fire much easier to visualize.
A repeat with yourself, Russel and Ian 'firing by ranks' should spin the plates easily.
So the spinner acted as a stressful situation. Multiply this by say 20 or 30 times in a Company of men and you would see them lose their position or even their lives at the hands of an onrushing enemy. Very interesting stuff Karl
What you are saying is true about soldiers loading multiple charges in rifles happened on both sides. Not just with the Enfield rifles in particular. The battle of Gettysburg at Devil's Den, Antietam, Nashville, and other Civil War battlefields. Infantrymen on both sides were focused on what was in front of them during combat. As they fired and loaded they kept their eyes focused as they moved forward or retreated and tried to keep from getting shot in combat when they see their comrades falling left and right of them. The British Infantry who were equipped with these rifles in Crimea during the 1850s were much more effective because they were much more of a professional army than the Russians. The British had emphasized accuracy in volley fire exercises at longer ranges and platoon and company reloading exercises for maximum firepower and accuracy. Very true with British, Indian Sepoy, and Gurkha soldiers in India with Prichard cartridges. The only general who maximized the effect of the Enfield was Confederate General Clayburn who was fighting in Tennessee. He was a veteran of the British Army in Crimea. The Enfield rifle musket is effective in combat with the infantryman trained on the use of it's sights and trained to ignore the volleys incoming and load properly under command by an officer or NCO. Very difficult under combat conditions. I got this from watching British Muzzleloaders. He is fantastic explaining this.
I love how the spinner seemed to come to a complete stop just as Karl finished loading.
What a neat test--you're right, it really highlights the time pressure. When I first saw what you intended I thought it sounded silly until I realized how the time pressure was really communicated. It might be more fun to try it with a fast-loading carbine, such as the Smith.
You should do this with two rifles and a loader. Could be fun
I don't know that two rifles would be quite enough. Three should get it over and likely have the first rifle reloaded in time if a fourth shot is needed.
I think at least 2 rifles and 2 loaders - one to pour the powder and load the bullet; one to ram. The shooter would place the firing cap.
Classic InRange Awesome! I'm gonna buy a muzzle-loader just to try this in BC. God'bless'ya guys🤠🤠
I love the idea of volley firing to spin the spinner! I think finding out how many shooters it would take to spin the spinner would be a really interesting thing to find out.
Now that's an interesting match idea for doing pairs.
Valiant effort! I love these kinds of challenges.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast!
I'm happily surprised by the spinner series. I was worried it was going to become monotonous, but this has had some really interesting lessons and twists :D
you see the 'squib' projectile at 2:34 on the target camera quite clearly
Karl is one hell of a blackpowder wrangler!
always fun watching ya go at the spinner and in general Karl, keep it up :)
I'd be curious to know what the lowest-tech firearm that can actually spin this target is. I'm thinking you *might* be able to pull it off with a single-shot breachloader, if you drilled well enough.
I'm pretty sure he has done it with a single shot breechloader. I can't find the video for the life of me right now but I can clearly remember him doing that.
His proficiency with the springfield breach loader makes that very viable tbh
He spun the target with a breech loading double barrel shotgun. I think he used birdshot. Breech loading single shot rifle martini henri would be easier.
Wonder if it would be possible with a Dreyse or Chasepot needle gun
@@Balmung60 Ask Chap on the Range. He's doing vids on those type of guns.
Throw in rain, or even heavy morning dew, and nothing goes boom then the Lt. says "Fix bayonets" and your day just got shittier.
Next time on InRange, bayonet charge vs spinner
If anyone could make this I'd bet on Brett from Paper Cartridges or Rob from British muzzleloaders being the people to do it, and that still seems unlikely.
Speed is easy… hitting that tiny little target after basically doing a form of Civil War CrossFit to load the thing… another matter! I might try it, if I can rig a spinner.
Idea. Get a couple of friends with muskets and try to spin it together. Call it The Three Musketeers.
If defending and stationary, some soldiers would skip the step of returning the ramrod and stick it in the ground for easy accessibility. Even taking a second or two off reload times is an advantage.
You aren't doing that in SE Arizona.
@@InrangeTv I know, but you can where 95% of the civil war was essentially fought.
@@InrangeTv Could place it in an assistant's hand as a substitute though. You're still only going to shave 4-5 seconds though, it looks fumble but it's not taking that much time... the spinner's winding down completely in the time you did use.
Only thing I can think of that would improve the reload time here is a shorter rifle (one "arm throw" length for the rod), maybe maynard tape priming if you can get one to actually work, and flash paper wrapped drop-in cartridges (which nobody had at the time) with undersized minies.
The spent cap should not be removed after directly firing. Two reasons. The first reason is that you could create the "chimney effect" by allowing air to flow from the nipple to the muzzle. This could fuel an ember that could possibly ignite the powder as you are loading. The second reason is that you are costing yourself more time by visiting the hammer/nipple on two separate events. First visit was after firing and the second visit is when you actually primed the nipple.
After ramming, go to the hammer, pull it back and then grab/insert the cap.
You're an absolute chad for even trying
I think this is an excellent example as to show why discipline and proper training often play a bigger hand in actual combat than technology, tactics, or numbers. If a unit is able to maintain proper discipline to keep a steady rate of aimed fire, they could wipe the floor with a poorly trained ad hoc militia type unit
Yes.
Kudos for the attempt!
a valiant effort, Sir!
I would like to see this done with progressively larger calibers to see if it can be spun in one shot I’m mostly thinking of the many dangerous game calibers
2 bore shotgun!
So it looks them darn newfangled brass foil cartridge guns are the way to go! Interesting and nice video.
Karl I would be curious to see you pick a caliber in the other direction: what's the MOST capable of spinning the spinner?
Since momentum is conserved in a collision but kinetic energy isn't, I would think a heavy and slow bullet would be the way to go.
A .45-70 would work great but I think a 12ga slug might be even better. Comparing a 1oz (440 gr) 12 ga slug at 1500 fps against a 5.56 55gr at 3,000 fps, the slug has 2x the kinetic energy but 4x the momentum.
IE, 1 hit with the slug imparts the same momentum to the spinner as 4 hits with 5.56, without waiting for the spinner to be in the right position and without losing energy to friction during that waiting.
12 ga slug video? I'd love to see it!
I love this kind of experimenting.
Really enjoying these spinner challenges. Black powder is also a fun twist. Maybe a colt walker?
With the greatest of respect, from a P53 shooter and someone who shot cannons for a number of years in the UK, when dealing with a hangfire the last thing you should do is tap the muzzle twice with your finger. It is a case of recap and try again, if nothing happens point the rifle in a safe position and wait. If the charge decided to go off you could have lost the tip of your finger. Also it is safer to seat the ram rod with your little finger, not the palm of the hand, as you know black powder is unstable and if there were embers in the the barrel the charge could potentially go off and blow a hole your hand. After a while with nothing happening a little nip of powder can be poured into the nipple another cap put on and try again. Sorry to be one of those people, l love what you guys are doing with this channel and I wound love to see a controlled, safe, experiment to see if three shots a minute can be fired under stress.
Tom Cruise: "Load! Load! Faster! Faster!"
He did it, that gets a thumbs up.
This does bring about an interesting line of thinking. If the Confederacy had a supply of these early in the war, one wonders if that might have contributed to their early battlefield success. If it did, it couldn't have been a huge contribution, but a few seconds shaved off a reload adds up over time.
@@gupler Especially, if you have a second and or third line of troops to keep the volley-fire coming.
Not necessarily. I mean yes, but the advantage would pale in comparison to the advantages the Union had at those same battles. Better supplied, fed, massed artillery/rifle production. There were whole confederate brigades still armed with muskets. The battlefield successes were a result (in the east) of the Confederate command's brilliancy with regards to Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, and a plethora of talented officers and NCOs.
And also, Mexican-American war experience also contributed to the Confederacy's early war experience, as many of the officers and some rank/file were veterans of that war. Confederate soldiers had a lot more hunters/rural folk per capita which made firearm drills easier and more natural for them.
I don't know anyone but Karl that would even try to do this.
Excellent vid!! A lot to learn from.
I have a feeling the British no biting has something to do with the Indian Mutiny.
@Robert Stallard is now with the minie balls of the American Civil War the greased bit were the grooves of the back end of the minie ball and it was a mixture of tallow or lard with beeswax.
I've seen your "make up" video where Fagen helped you out. I'm curious how the spinner would react if it were lubricated.
I think this test exemplifies how much the timer (in this case the dwindling momentum) puts stress on the shooter.
I would be interested to see if the the most well trained person would be able to do it. The person who own paper cartridges managed to get off 4 shots in a minute with his p53, how well aimed they were I don’t know, but I would assume his level is as close an allegory as is possible for the elite soldiers of the day. Great video!
Finding someone who can do 4 shots a minute while hitting this target would be quite an amazing find.
As a point of interest, you did technically fire 3 rounds in 60 seconds, and with enough room to spare that you could have taken a little bit more time with the third one in order to prevent that undercharge. 3 rounds in 60 seconds was the standard that the Continental Army was expected to maintain during the Revolutionary War, whereas irregular militia were really only expected to manage 2 shots in that same 60 seconds.
Great attempt, awesome idea, thanks.👍
That "GRRRAAAAAAA" in slow mo was very satisfying.
Multi task with your hands. Keep 1 or more cartridges in your left hand with the loading funnel facing towards you, 1 or more caps in your right hand. As soon as you fire, recock and replace cap while your still in the firing position... (Your hand is only inches away, not feet away, you are prepared to fire as soon as your reshouldered); drop the stock while catching it with your foot and sliding your left hand towards the open end of the barrel; tear off; charge powder, while your right hand is pulling the ram rod; flip cartridge and push in barrel; ram; reshoulder; fire .... Repeat.
I don't think you would want to load the powder and ball with the cap already in place. Even at half cock this seems like a safety hazard.
That is some incredible reloading for a muzzleloader
You sir, are a good sport.
2:30 if you play back in 0.25 speed you can see the bullet moving down range and it appears to kick up stones on the spinner cam
Awesome try made even more interesting by all of the things that went wrong. The trapdoor is up next?
It'd be neat to see this as a team of people working together to spin it.
Wow that was a great demonstration of pressure and the effects of fine motor skills. If you do it again, I would think your best chance would be using 2 rifles and a loader (someone with fast hands) and alternate between rifles. I still don’t think it would be fast enough to spin the target, but I think that would be your best option.
What's next? Bows/Crossbows? Throwing stones at the spinner? Fart?
Very interesting result. The things we learn by trying stuff.
Glad you enjoyed it
Very interesting result Karl, would you be willing to try again with New York reloads? you could have 5-10 loaded muskets on a table in front of you and rather than trying to reload the musket just set it down and grab another preloaded musket. I would be interested to see if the spinner is possible using this method. Thanks again for the excellent and informative content.
It would be very interesting to see if 2 people, firing alternatively, could get it to spin. If not 2, then 3 perhaps. What ROF out of a Civil War era musket would it take? Please, I'd like to see that vid.
Excellent attempt! One thing that might help - I know British soldiers in the Napoleonic wars would stick the ramrod in the ground rather than try and re-seat it every time, saving valuable seconds each shot. Your spinner was still swinging each time you started with the ramrod, so it's possible you _might_ be able to make it.
Any British soldier would have been well ‘beasted’ by his corporal for such behaviour long before he saw battle. A well practiced soldier can put the rod back properly as fast as you can reach for a rod stuck in the ground and you are buggered if you are moved before you can pick it up. Practice ad nauseam makes the whole process automatic.
@@johnfisk811 I'm sure many would be "beasted", but I've read many accounts of battle and it certainly happened. Perhaps more frequently amongst skirmish lines than line companies - corporals not so nearby to "beast" them!
I've never seen Karl move so fast - Alas - to no avail ;o)
Excellent video.
I may be a little late to the party on this one, but I’d be interested to see the two person volley that you mentioned in the video. Either that or a two person team, one loader and one shooter. I’ve heard that often in combat soldiers would pair up and as one soldier aimed and fired the other reloaded the spare rifle. Once loaded they swapped rifles and continued the process. I wonder if that could take the spinner
Karl the very first hit almost knocked it over. Had there been another rifleman ready to hit it again by the time you fired your second shot I suspect it would have gone over if they did not knock it over. Very interesting series you are doing looking at spinning it with different historical firearms.
Would it be possible to load without the ramrod by bumping the shoulder stock on the ground? Apparently the Voortrekkers (I'm speaking from a South African perspective) used to load whilst galloping on horseback - powder charge down the barrel, bump the stock, bullet down the barrel, bump the stock, fire and repeat. If I'm not entirely mistaken, this form of reloading was also replicated in the British TV series "Sharpe"
Hi I love the smell of gunpowder in the day 😁😁😁😁
Karl that was an epic try
Just in my opinion it was impossible to do as you said to spin it it would take two muskets , volley fire? Maybe one then the other fired as the first one reloads would work too
Keep up with the excellent informative quality content. Bestest from Scotland
Looking closely, you had skipped over the cartridge entirely and loaded just the percussion cap. The point is the same though, In the heat of battle mistakes are made. This video was fun to watch!
That is not correct, you can even see the projectile fly out of the bore in frame rate decreased clip.
Karl bad man
Cap and ball revolver of your favorite model could be interesting, plus if you couldn't with one could try a pair
Bravo. Good effort that man. Well done.
Were these 0,568” or 0,550”? The cartridge should allow you to push the bullet in easily before snapping off the powder case and not need hitting with the hand. I never had that issue when I was using these cartridges.
Love the video. Would you be able to spin the spinner with a Snider or Trapdoor Springfield? Have you already done that video? I may have missed it, but I’ve made a good effort to watch all your videos.
Great videos, than you for all your hard work.
I'd be interested to see this attempted with a breach loading cavalry carbine or something similar. I think that would be the type of civil war era firearm with the best chance of flipping a spinner.
These muzzle loafers/single shot spinner trials defiantly should be redone with 2 people shooting
i suggest another method. after the first hit run forward and butt stroke the spinner to get a full revolution.
trying to figure out if you could save any [fraction of] seconds in the reloading process was fun. i like the results even if you can't spin it.
Still a worthwhile exercise, Karl. You'll have to settle for a "Participation Trophy" this time. 😄
I am familiar with this cartridge having seen it on British Muzzle Loaders.
This rifle started the first Indian war of independence
Gotta get one of these.
I'm still hanging in there for a slinger attempt, but a brace of pistols, pirate style could be good too.
You should try a 1842 Springfield smoothbore. It's a .69cal But I found that if I used .65 ball and "spit loaded" I could hit a man size target 5 times in 1 min at 50 yards. So you might be able to hit a spinner at 25.
It would be interesting to see how many people would be needed in volley fire to match one person with a trap door and then trap door to a lever action gun, all of similar power (powder charge & bullet weight) ,to spin the target.
I use that type of paper cartridge in my Enfield, practicing rapid fire is really fun, and confuses the standard black powder target shooters at the range no end.