Why you're not able to improve your ear training skills - a scientific overview of implied harmony
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
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In this video, I explain what implied harmony is and why it's crucial to take it into account when practicing ear training. You'll learn why not taking implied harmony into account will cause serious difficulties in developing your ear training skills and your musicality in general. Everything I explain is supported by scientific researches which are mentioned in the video (down below you can find links to them).
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----- SCIENTIFIC RESEARCHES -----
Carol Krumhansl - The psychological representation of musical pitch in a tonal context
psycnet.apa.org/record/1979-2...
Carol Krumhansl - Cognitive foundations of musical pitch (book)
www.oxfordscholarship.com/vie...
Russo & Thompson - An interval size illusion
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
Brown, 1988 - The interplay of set content and temporal context in a functional theory of tonality perception
online.ucpress.edu/mp/article...
Butler, 1982 - The initial identification of tonal centers in music
link.springer.com/chapter/10....
Butler - The musician’s guide to perception and cognition (book)
www.amazon.it/Musicians-Guide...
Sloboda & Parker - immediate recall of melodies
www.oxfordscholarship.com/vie...
Povel & Jansen - Perception of arpeggiated chord progressions
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
Humphreys - Measurement, prediction, and training of harmonic audition and performance skills
asu.pure.elsevier.com/en/publ...
I’ve been a classical music for years, but it wasn’t until I tried to play jazz standards and improvise that I realized how weak my listening skills were. For years I diligently practiced the usual apps and online courses, so you can now add me to the list of musicians who got little out of the interval method in terms of applying what I learned to real musical contexts. I really got stuck in hearing chord progressions and bass notes.
So I signed up for UYE. What grabbed me first about UYE was when I played the drone and sang a major scale against it. I immediately and for the first time experienced the “colors” of each degree of the scale in a tonal context. It was a consciousness raising experience.
In a couple weeks I’ve improved my dictation skills, can find the key pretty quickly in real songs and recognize simple chord progressions. I’m feeling quite hopeful I will get to where I want to be with UYE program.
Thank you Frances. We're glad to know that. We really appreciate it.
You need to know intervals and notes in order to learn scales and chords! All is important, you can’t neglect intervals as well!
I purchased the “use your ear” course about 2 weeks ago. At that time, I was looking for videos to help a beginner adult violin student of mine. She could not sing and match a pitch, so I was looking solfège videos to help her practice matching pitches. The “use your ear” ad kept popping up in these videos and I was intrigued. My ear training in school was based on fixed do, which doesn’t establish the color of the note within the scale. Interval training always frustrated me because I always wanted to get a perfect score before moving on and inevitably my brain would glitch on at least one interval and I never understood why. While this hasn’t hindered me in being able to play anything written down, my ability to improvise is pretty pathetic. I was hoping this course would help me in my teaching and in my ability to improvise. I have to say, I am super impressed with the course. It is extremely well thought out. It starts from the basics of matching pitches and singing scales. There are exercises to practice each skill and a syllabus to help you determine when you are proficient enough to move on. The syllabus doesn’t require 100% to move on, but unlike interval training, I have been able to achieve 100% on the various chord recognition and melodic dictation exercises because they are within a key and my brain can recognize the key. (That is the problem with random interval exercises. The brain tries to find the key and it can’t because there isn’t one, so it gets tired and glitches.😩) I am currently in unit 3 and I am able to identify chord progressions that I am embarrassed to say, would have baffled my violin brain two weeks ago. I am also getting better at playing chord progressions in different keys on the piano. In the exercise where you had to identify the tonic in real songs, I started to be able to make up harmonies and sing with the songs just by playing around in the scale. So much fun! I absolutely recommend this course for anyone who wants to improve their ear!
That's Awesome. Thank you.
How does one buy the course and at how much?
I purchased the course a couple of weeks ago. I took ear training in college but it was never from the ground up like this course. I was never confident because the most basic fundamentals were not solid. I moved on and play jazz having over two hundred tunes I play by ear. I wish this had been available to me then. I am reaffirming and improving my skills. Love the course. Really well put together. Thanks.
Thank you Mervyn, we appreciate it a lot. Feel free to leave a brief review on our Trustpilot page, if you'd like to help us further. www.trustpilot.com/review/useyourear.com
I love that you place the studies you're quoting un the screen, very few people un UA-cam do that, You are a pro
Hi Santiago, thank you very much. In the description section, you can also find links to the studies. Many other video tutorials like this are next to come so if you'd like to stay updated be sure to subscribe to the channel. Thanks
Finally watched this video after seeing your ads pop up several times. Very interesting topic and I like that you provided the studies to back up what you're saying. I look forward to checking out more of your videos. Thank you!
Hi, thank you a lot! that's great.
I'm one of those who can't find the chord of a song. Sometimes I use trial and errors method on my instrument but I struggle to match the right keys. I thought that I need to practice my instrument daily to develop my ear as somebody said but I don't play it. And then I find a briefing of this method and I feel attracted. It broadens my insight so I purchased the course. The course comes with clear explanation and detail exercises. It's hard for me to overcome each exercise, but I will give it a try.
Thank you!
I was amazed at your teachings . Please make more video. I'm one of your students now. Hehe. Thanks a lot
I like your approach, which connects together melody and harmony in the tonal music!!! Thank you so very much. I will try to make it like a way of playing!!! Great job!!!
Thank you!
Thank you so much for your work! It's sad that you have only 5k subs, very good info.
Thank you very much!
Great explanation!! Many thanks!
Thank you, you're welcome!
Brilliant 👏 .. thank you
Thanks
I can’t find a place to put my feedback, so I’ll just do it here. I’ll give a little background info. I’ve been a pianist since I was a little kid. I was taught to read sheet music and abide by the score. I never trained my ears in the sense of learning songs by ear. Now, I’m pursing a piano performance major in college. Unfortunately, I am taking an aural skills class that is absolutely destroying me. I saw this course, so I purchased the course 2 weeks. Progress report: I love the progress I have seen. It’s only been 2 weeks, but I feel like I’m already so much better as a musician. I’m able to sight sing (as good as a toddler singing the alphabet) but there is more improvement. If anyone is skeptical about how much you can learn from this course, just know that, if you put in the time and effort, you will get good. Currently putting 1-2 hours a day. Excited where I can go from here. Thanks Leonardo!
Thank Ervin, that sounds awesome! We're glad you're seeing great progress with our course.
Thanks for your information. I deleated all my ear training apps 😊
Hi thanks for your comment. Check out our free workshop if you haven't yet www.useyourear.com/courses
Amazing video man truely. God bless.
Thank you!
Good stuff thanks a lot!
Thank you, Martin!
I was born with a musical pitch and until a late stage of my piano studies I couldn't read notes properly cos I always just played by ear lol
Pls tell UA-cam algorithm that I don't need your add
Still, you now have one more sub :)
Well explained Sir
Thank you!
This is excellent. I've been doing the wrong kind of ear training for years even as a music student.
Thank you! Feel free to check out more on www.useyourear.com
Increadible!
This makes so much sense!
As soon as I'm able to buy your course, I'll do It!
Unfortunately, today, 1 EU = 6,30 BR...
So my salary wouldn't be enough lol...
But in the future...
Hi Luiz, Thanks!
Fantastic well researched. I been saying for ages that learning intervals from short two note song sequences does not help for ear training. Your video has just made that now concrete in my mind. I always thought this was the case now its proved. Brilliant video. Ear training needs to be done with total rejection to that schooled method. Use your instrument and just stick to C major and jumping around using random note numbers singing them. I use 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 instead of solfeg. Once you can recognise multiple random jumps in C major then you can use same numbers 1-7 in any key.
Hi, thank you for your comment, I appreciate it. Actually the method I suggest is still different from what you're describing, you're still referring to jumps and distances. Whereas the UseYourEar method focuses on internalizing the sensations and feelings that notes, chords and other musical elements assume in a certain context. Even though this can seem a small difference, it's not. This approach opens up a very efficient way for students to develop advanced ear training skills that they can effortlessly apply in real musical context. This is a consequence of training our intuitive/instinctive part of the brain and let it do the big part of the work so we can turn off the rational/logical side of the brain. More info about the UseYourEar method here www.useyourear.com/use-your-ear-relative-pitch-video-course
@@UseYourEar Wow if I could achieve that it would be amazing! Thanks for explaining the importance of intuitive internalising of sounds so clearly.
@@mamie6820 That's great, you could absolutely achieve that. We have a course that might help you in doing so www.useyourear.com/courses Thank you!
So, theoretically talking I agree with what you say in your videos. Im aware that you offer an online course and it really looks interesting to me. Yet I havent seen any specific excercises, for example of how to "practice in a tonal, contextual way". Do you have any videos on this channel or somewhere where we can try out one or two exercises of your course?
Best
Hi Gianni, thanks for the comment. We have a free 3hr long workshop that includes multiple exercises, and it's a goldmine for anyone interested in ear training. You can register to it here www.useyourear.com/free-workshop-optin-organic
free sauce, God bless ur kind soul
thanks
Amazing. Finally I undestand why I feel so sad about tradicional ear training. Unfortunatelly here in Brazil course is so expensive to we... sad about it....
Thanks anyway for your compliment.
@@UseYourEar Same for me....
@@inglespracrianca-deborafar1267 Thank you for your feedback!
Hey Fernando....Have you been able to progress?
Wow! This makes so much sense! Thank you!
Hi Deb, thank you!
So you are suggesting the solfege style of ear training? And i seem to understand tension but i cant seem to remember the resolutions any tips? Thanks by the way nice work man!
The solfege ear training system it's for sure better than intervals but it can cause many issues too, especially because it hasn't a real step by step path and, since it's not clear how to develop certain skills, usually students get stuck at some point. In addition, it doesn't take into account the aspect of chord progressions that much, which is indeed crucial to improve our "melodic ear". I've created a step by step method that is based on working simultaneously on the harmonic and melodic sides of our musical ear. This could help you with the issues you're finding, it starts with very simple exercises and gradually moves to the more advanced ones. Check out my website to find more info about the course www.useyourear.com/
@@UseYourEar i will look into it thanks man! Good luck!
@@UseYourEar Wrong,.. solfège teaches you many aural skills!! It’s extremely important to know how to sight read as a singer!!!!!!!
@@kaylasmusic I'm not saying solfege is wrong nor sight singing is wrong. Solfege is just a very limited practice, whereas sight signing, if done effectively is an awesome practice. I use it in my practice indeed. 😉
there are a lot of different ways in which you can sight sing, some are effective and some are less effective.
Excellent video. How can I join your courses?
Hi Aleithea, you can check them out from this page www.useyourear.com/courses
Hello. I would be interested in a relative pitch only course without the extra knowledge, if that is possible. Thank you.
Hi Aleithea, thank you for your message. What's exactly "the extra knowledge"? We only teach relative pitch.
Interesting video. A question: You say that 2 intervals ‘sound different’ due to the context. Is this the actual interval sound or the effect that it has - ie, does the tension caused by the second major 3rd interval causing the feeling of tension prevent you from ascertaining that it is a major 3rd interval? Thanks
Yes, this is just one of the example we can make but, as you can understand, the same interval can sound very different given the function it assumes within the key (to the point it assumes opposite sensations "stable" and "unstable" in this example). This fact absolutely prevent us to be able to intuitively recognize intervals in real music. In turn the expectation that musicians have about practicing "intervals exercises" as a way to develop an intuitive connection to music, so they can recognize melodies and chords on the spot, is totally wrong. Interval thinking is very difficult to apply in real musical contexts, I suggest you watch this other video where I talk about that ua-cam.com/video/U2a5VPgYZI0/v-deo.html Thanks
@@UseYourEar It does help to learn melodies, because you certainly need to know your intervals to understand melodies!! and chords and qualities of chords, so i hate to say this, but your wrong
@@kaylasmusic thanks again for your comment. I'll just copy paste my reply to a similar comment you left under this video.
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Hi Kyla, please give a read to the comments from my students you can find in this comment section. I teach ear training to thousands of successful students while telling them to never think about intervals nor practice interval exercises. Moreover I suggest you check out this video ua-cam.com/video/MbrmbYaIidY/v-deo.html
where I explain why intervals are detrimental for beginner/intermediate students, but can be beneficial for advanced ones. In the video, I also talk a bit about my story and how I've developed my ear training method. It might be interesting to you, but please keep an open mindset. I'm not interested in arguing with people. I'm providing clear and undeniable proof about what I say, such as scientific studies, students opinion, video of students improving their skills after following the UYE method, etc. Lastly, let me assure you that you can recognize major and minor chords without practicing interval based exercises, or without even knowing what an interval is. I say this to relieve you from the burden of having to practice tedious interval ear training 😉
I got this ad like 100times so I finally decided to tune in here
Lol same, everytime
Same here
Leonardo, do you consider offering 3part payment method for the whole course in which payer's card is charged 1/3 of the whole sum for the period of 3 months? It relieves slightly the 1time payment burden. I have used it for an art class and it works fine.
We can't do that currently, but we might try it out in the future. Thanks!
Nice video.
Well i have been practicing piano for 2 years and i memorize a piece by muscle memory. I tried improving my ear by playing a lot of songs in c major or a minor, but I'm not progressing. My piano teacher teaches me music theory and has a very strong ear. He composes , improvises, and adds harmony to any song with ease , but he asserts that with time my ear will improve ,but it barely does. I currently play intermediate classical pieces ,but i never use my ear like a true musician does. For example my teacher can pick up a mistake easily and i don't know how. Its been 2 years and i have been convinced that its talent and thats impossible to develop. I even tried solfege , it helped a little but my progress is still stuck. I would really love to start playing my piano pieces by thinking about the harmony while playing and not just read and play without thinking. Please can you grant me some free advice and methods to improve .
P.S i watched this video by an email sent from you since i have watched all your previous videos.
Thanks in advance
In other words how do i internalize the 7 seven sensations / colors that you talked about in previous videos. Do i practice on random songs taking in to consideration the sensation i feel for every note and harmony ? Im kinda lost 😂
Hi Mysto, thank you for your comment.
I understand your situation very well, I was in your same exact situation and even by practicing hours and hours a day my ear didn't develop at all before applying the concepts I've quickly described in this video (and other videos on this channel). That's a very common issue because people usually think about music without taking into account the effect of the tonal context but the fact is that our musical ear only develops if we take it into account. The answer to your question is not so simple, there are many issues and pitfalls we should know in order to practice effectively. This is a complex skill with many factors involved and there isn't quick advice I can tell you here that will solve everything. For this reason, I've created the "Use Your Ear - Relative Pitch Video Course" where I explain the step-by-step process to follow in order to develop these skills in a gradual way. You start on very simple exercises that work on basics skills at first then you gradually move to more complex ones. There are many different skills that work altogether and form our overall relative pitch skill, these are all interrelated and issues in one area influence other areas of your musical hearing, I just name a few of them: Musical memory, pitch matching, the ability to recognize the tonic by ear, the ability to hear and recognize the sensations of the 7 notes of the key (also called key's colors), the ability to hear the and recognize the sensations of the 7 chords of the key, the ability to think of a note as belonging to a specific chord of the key (also called triadic colors), etc.
In the video-course, I go very deep on these topics so students can understand what are the areas in which they need to work on the most and I show how to improve each one of these areas in a gradual way.
Here you can find out more info about the courses www.useyourear.com/courses
Use Your Ear Yeah your right when i play a piece i tend to ignore the sensation of every note and chord because it would be of a fast tempo. Thanks a lot for responding :). I will consider looking at your course later.
Thanks again.
I’ve had 10 years of music lessons - and another 40 of off-on playing - and my ears are rubbish. I can’t even sing Happy Birthday. Worse than that, I thought it began on the root note. I once got 3% on a ‘sing the note’ test. And I failed to work out the 6 notes of the intro to The Beatles’ ‘In my life’ having spent a week trying to do it. Yeah - couldn’t work out a mere 6 notes. I didn’t get this either - in that melody, the b and c sounded off notes to me.
@@nigelmadeley7798 yh playing by ear isn’t easy to learn :/
What methods did your teacher use then?
❤i found it very interesting indeed !🎉 so 1st of all i've to buy a computer & so on and so forth 😮😊❤🎉 . Me Maria delas Mercedes Losada. Love it! So do I have to purchase this " maravilloso " musical online system ? How much is it ? And will i attend zoom lessons or by UA-cam ?? Or .. let's say oops ... i want to know if I'll be receiving by Amazon my box of this musical system ?? Love it !@. Posh .😊 Bye~bye for now .🎉
Hi Maria, thanks for your comment. Our course is entirely online and it's available directly from our website. Please check it out here www.useyourear.com/
Thats sounds pretty logical, and i need to check these researches, but where the demonstration of how you/or your students transcribing songs by these methods ?
Hi Andrew, for now you can find our students describing their experiences on this page www.useyourear.com/testimonials stay tuned and be sure to subscribe to the channel because new videos are next to come out very soon and they'll very likely answer your question.
Many people are skeptical. Many complaints already.
@@Vie9724 I understand that people could be skeptical but your sentence "many complaints already" is totally false and I don't know what are you referring to, since we're receiving a lot of incredible reviews as you can see here facebook.com/Use-Your-Ear-1951897094907176/reviews/ and on our site www.useyourear.com/testimonials and a lot more are next to be published soon. You can also see Steve's comment under this video, he is one of our students. We may have many defects but for sure we're not disappointing the students who subscribe to our work, that's quite the opposite.
Does the ear lean more naturally to the tonic of the Key in which the music’s in or to the chord of the moment that’s being played within the Key, thats what I’d like to know.
Or is it a case of duality that exists at the same time? 🤔
Thanks for your comment, it's not that mathematical and it's impossible to explain it in a comment. We made a few videos about that, one of them is this one ua-cam.com/video/tMY9AUKTxXs/v-deo.html
@@UseYourEar Thanks, I’ll take a look.
Don't know about the rest of your method yet as this is this first video that I came across, but it got me intrigue.. for the longest time my ears doesn't believe that the same intervals are equal across the board and my head could never figure out why...
Hi Puri, your ears were right.
@@UseYourEar now I regret commenting, your push ad is now on every single video I click it's killing me... I'm telling you this push ads thing work both way man 😕
@@purimuadmuang2259 unfortunately I can do very little about that, it's all about google algorithm. Thanks
@@purimuadmuang2259 that happened to me all the time, because I was looking for ear training videos, happens also with other stuff, that's google at work, annoying but sometimes useful, I am considering taking this course after I watch the free mini-lessons. I haven't decided yet.
@@mcgsXXI I understand how that works, it was just that period of time nothing else pops up in my ad but this all day long so much that I get cranky 😂. Someday I might enroll in his course, still thinking about it.
Teacher I have just heard your intriguing talk an what you said makes a lot of sense because I have started piano and Practicing intervals I came across this problem but thought it would magically go away. My only thoughts are if what u say is true why aren’t more musical schools teaching something different and how have u somehow come across something better?
Hi Jordan, thank you for your comment. I understand your point. You're right, "why aren’t more musical schools teaching something different?" I think it's for the same reason everyone thought the earth was flat a few centuries ago, humans have the ability to improve the understanding of complex things over time. I came across something better after having crushed my head on intervals for 10 years straight without getting even the smallest noticeable improvement in my musical hearing skills. Then I started to study this topic much more in-depth (as you can see in this video) and test out different ways to develop these skills, some worked well and others didn't so I kept what worked and reiterated this process many times till I had a thorough picture of how these skills work and how they can be developed starting from 0. I guess you understand this is a process that took years and didn't happen overnight. Thanks
This is not new. It's how it's been done forever, at least in the classical world.
@@e.d.1642 I find hilarious that I'm constantly receving emails and comment from people that are practicing with intervals and in some rare case (like this) someone says that the approach I suggest is the standard way of teaching ear training. I mean, for sure a few music colleges, conservatories, etc. have adopted a tonal approach (which is on the same line of our approach) in the latest years but the vast, overwhelming majority is still teaching ear training through the interval method. This is clearly reflected on the internet and youtube in particular, where you can see the most influencial youtubers still suggesting the interval method as a proper approach to ear training. I'm happy that you found out a proper approach to ear training in your music school but that's cleaerly an exception to the norm.
@@UseYourEar what about modal music, like the Indian ragas, does your method apply to that kind of music as well? I have a very beautiful sitar , but it's standing there in its box, I refuse to have it as decoration, I want to play it at least a little, in Portugal there is only one teacher, maybe 2, both far away from where I'm living. I am retired and decided to learn music, the closest to sitar being the guitar :-), that's the instrument I am learning now since 2 hears, and have lessons also on music theory.
@@mcgsXXI check out this interview with Shanti (one of our students) who is interest in the exact same thing and will help you calrify if and how the course can help you ua-cam.com/video/5qpAd53e9-w/v-deo.html
What your think about 432 tuning?
These theories are valid also for 432 tuning.
I wonder about speed. How can you transcribe something like a bebop tune full of chromaticism without relying on an instrument and, if that is possible with your method how long would take for someone to learn that skill?
Hi, I hope you can understand that there are too many variables at hand (your current level, the complexity of the tune, your commitment, etc.) and it's impossible for me to answer this question without making random and inappropriate assumptions.
This is a great question. My goals is the same as yours. Have you achieved your goal?
What about G? It is in the second row (less unstable than the third like F) but the dominant is the most unstable pitch of C major, how can it be?
Anyway it's a very interesting approach and I'm 100% with you interval training is an absolute mistake.
Very well done!!
If you take into account the dominant chord, yes it's definitely unstable. But the 5th considered as a single pitch, can be also perceived as a stable note depending on the chord played underneath. That is the case when the tonic chord is played under it.
G is *the most stable* pitch in C major, besides C itself. F and B are the most unstable (which are part of G⁷)
Hey Leonardo, implied harmony or native harmony?
I'm only talking about implied harmony here.
But is it still useful to recognize types of intervals by ear?
Hi thanks for your comment, no it's not useful for most musicians. It's actually counterproductive, especially for beginners and intermediate level musicians. Please check out this video where I explain why ua-cam.com/video/MbrmbYaIidY/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
you are posting videos, are these part of your course?
Hi, this video is not part of the course but for sure it explains the basic concepts that are at the core of our method. We posted only one video which is an excerpt from our course.
This make me question on people's lives on how they learn reative pitch and how they practice it because now thinking about it make sense on what you said I'm no mean a very experience with ear training but for the past few days I have been using a app call perfect ear and my thoughts was how can I remember the same notes on how it sound but now in different keys that got to me head because i felt like it was near impossible to remember it . And also this make me think of steve vai ear training video when he talk about ear training what I'm thinking is what steve vai is saying going to work or is it just a other person saying the same things on how to pratice reative pitch . I mean it steve vai but I think it best just do buy your course and just trust in you and your points that I can get a good ear in a year then my thinking of just doing what UA-cam tells or apps telling me on what to do and I thought that it will take me years on getting at least a good or some ok ear but really I'm just confused on how people like steve vai say these things and say it works but really my only hope for a great ear for my musical inner self is this course and if this work then everything else in my guitar journey will fuel me that I already have this great ear for music and now all I need to do is build my skills to use ny reative pitch to the max.
Are you confusing the term 'Implied Harmony' with function?
Well, in the case of this video they're not really synonyms, although they can be used as that too. "Implied harmony" is a term I use to emphasize the fact that whatver group of notes played in sequence (melody) triggers our brain to recreate an "implied harmonic context". This "implied harmonic context" is necessary for us to perceive the tension and resolution sensations associated with music. But like you were saying, if I say "the implied harmony of a note" I'm referring to "the function of the note", in that case you can consider them to be synonyms.
first melody sounded like it was in g mixo to me
It's just another name for C major. We're seeing that keeping things simple in the beginning is helping our students a lot. This includes avoiding to think about modes and complex music theory concepts when it's unnecessary to do so. This is a simple tonal example in C major, seeing it as G mixolydian is not an efficient way to think (from an ear training perspective). But unfortunately, I can't explain why this is the case in detail in a comment.
You practiced interval ear training for 10 years and made no progress?
Yes, and there are hundreds of students that are subscribed to our course that experienced the same exact issue, you can see quite a few of them here www.useyourear.com/testimonials. This video explains the main reasons why that happens. Thanks
It's a pity there is no garranty in case we don't like the method. At least during 30days like many teacher do when they are confident in their courses.
Hi Thierry, unfortunately, the course comes with all the Audio and PDFs exercises files that cannot be returned, as such we're currently unable to offer refunds. It's not about us not being confident that our method works. Not only we're extremely confident that it works, we have clear proofs that this course allow students to achieve incredible results on a daily basis as you can check out here www.useyourear.com/testimonials Lastly, let me tell you that with 1100+ students currently subscribed none asked for a refund up to now. That's another reason why we think offering refunds is unnecessary at this point. Many businesses offer refunds to avoid negative reviews, luckily, we didn't find it necessary up to now.
@@UseYourEar thanks for your answer. It make sense and I don't see bad comments here. So I will probably give it a try.
Isn't it obvious ? Isn't it how it's taught already ? I live in Europe, maybe in the US it's different. Bach and all classical composers sure heard harmony and context, not just intervals. I mean, that's how music works and how we perceive it, as you show.
This being said, intervals also have their own sound, see the quartal music of McCoy Tyner. But still you'll want to resolve playing this way.
@E.D. I find hilarious that I'm constantly receving emails and comments from people that are practicing with intervals and in some rare cases (like this) someone says that the approach I suggest is the standard way of teaching ear training. I mean, for sure a few music colleges, conservatories, etc. have adopted a tonal approach (which is on the same line of our approach) in the latest years but the vast, overwhelming majority is still teaching ear training through the interval method. This is clearly reflected on the internet and youtube in particular, where you can see the most influencial youtubers still suggesting the interval method as a proper approach to ear training. I'm happy that you found out a proper approach to ear training from your education system but that's cleaerly an exception to the norm.
@@UseYourEar Maybe it is dependant on the country as I suggested. I would not be surprised the "interval system" is fairly new and comes from institutionalization of jazz like Berklee's chord-scale system. Anyway I don't understand how anyone could be a professional musician and not hear notes related to harmonic context. To me intervals & tonal are not opposed, they're complementary. In any case your system is not new nor original, but if the current educational trend is so bad that it does not adress tonal eartraining, it is good that you are among the people who teach it.
@@e.d.1642 I mean, how can you say that our method is not original? Despite the fact that this is quite offensive, given the amount of work we put into creating our method, you aren't even subscribed to our course. You're just watching a youtube video where I just say that a tonal approach is far better than the intervallic approach and you suppose to know the whole method (that I almost don't mention in the whole video)? For sure our method isn't the first tonal approach that has been thaught but the step-by-step process, the benchamarks we're adopting to help students, integrating melodic and harmonic thought along with the specific and very detailed exercises that have been developed specifically for this method and the many helpful explanations related to the perceptual mechansims at the core of our relative pitch skills makes our method stand out for sure in terms of originality and innovation. Our method is for sure new and original and it is more so if you watch the results of our students here www.useyourear.com/testimonials these kinds of results show that this method is far above the average ear training program available out there. I really can't understand what are you trying to prove here?
I live in France and only explanation is maybe it's so obvious that people can't explain what they do and can't teach it.
Also fixed do probably confused things.
@@e.d.1642 they teach mobile do in Berkeley American School in Paris, which is basically tonal hearing, so probably it depends of the teachers, and of the context.
Careful, you are mistaking "tonal/modal centers" with "harmonic centers". Implied harmony and the notion of which note is the "center" depends on context, it's not as "objective" as you think.
Plus, the study you are citing about implying harmony has several important issues because of which it is hard to take its findings seriously: 1) the subjects were pre-trained on the subject they were being test for (trained musicians will *tend* to focus on harmony), which is a very big problem, cince you are biasing your measurements - this could have been resolved if there was a control group of untrained musicians. 2) the number of subjects is 10, which is too small for chance not to be a big factor. And as far as I'm aware, no statistical analysis to account for this was done.
That said, I think it's great that you are teaching ear training focusing on a reference (in this case, the center), instead of just intervals.
It doesn't really matter if you'd like to see everything in relation to a particular mode or just to the tonic note of the relative key. Each mode is relative to a major or minor key so everything I say in this video applies for every tonal music piece.
@@UseYourEar no no, see, a tonal/modal center is a note, not a chord. Like in gregorian chant, for example, on a passage, there is a note which becomes the "center of gravity". But that note is not a chord. Many theorists of music have committed the error of assigning "implied harmony" to these melodies, but that's simply not the case. There IS. Hierarchy of notes, but it's not necessarily harmonic.
@@AlvaroALorite It seems like the word "harmonic/harmony" it's synonym for "chord" to you. That's not the case. "The harmonic context" I'm referring in most of this video is the "tonal context", more simply known as "the key". I've never meant the tonic to be a chord, when I say the tonic I'm referring to the tonic note. Hope that's clear now.
@@UseYourEararound 9:36 youth explicitly talked about chords, more specifically the tonic and the dominant. Where you trying to say something different?
@@AlvaroALorite yeah I’m talking about chords in that specific example. I still can’t understand your objection related to modes, etc. that’s a very specific examples that clearly shows that the major 3rd interval assumes very different sensations depending on the function that the 2 notes included in the interval assume inside the key.
I've always considered the "interval" to be relative to the tonal center, not relative to another intervallic note. Who would be teaching people otherwise? That would be non-functional. This video leads me to believe that people are trying to recognize intervals from each individual note in the melody to the next individual note in the melody? That seems rather goofy. Why would anyone do that? A decent intervallic ear trainer would establish the tonal center with a cadence before playing the note to identify.
Sadly, most people, apps and teachers (even in music colleges and conservatories) practice interval-based exercises that are completely atonal and there is no key being clearly established whatsoever. There even are big music influencers on YT encouraging people to practice in that "wrong" way. So I guess, you are the exception here. That being said, if you are practicing in the presence of a key, I wouldn't call them practicing intervals, cause what you are really doing is focusing on scale degrees at that point.
Because you need to know intervals to learn scales and chords!!
Those of us that have been indoctrinated by Western music to hear the C as tonic(Ionian Harmony) have a tough time in learning and hearing and playing in other Modalities. Equal Temperament adds to this problem. The same notes can suggest A, or F or D as Tonic, even E, but we don't hear Modes correctly anymore, they just sound like the C scale, but starting on a different note. People who grow up with Arabic, Flamenco, Gypsy, Jewish, Hungarian or Asian folk, Secular and Non-secular Music, would most probably have a different Tonality Syntax, just like language. And to us Westerners, their music sounds strangely beautiful. Even something as familiar as the Blues(which implies Mixolydian) is more of an East African/Arabian Tonality that Western Harmony is not equipped to analyze or understand. The Question is: How do you change your Tonal Syntax?
Cheers!
Thanks Jack for the thoughtful comment. Well, the answer is simple: You don't change your tonal syntax, you can learn different types of tonal syntaxes and you can then use the most appropriate one. Exactly, as it happens with a verbal language, you learn English and then you add Spanish, French, etc. Then depending on the situation, you use the most appropriate.
@@UseYourEarYep, I'm actually doing just that! I have invented a new methodology and a new solfege that I call Gripology and it starts with the simplest 4 note pattern (Chromatic) and it's 24 arithmetical variations, then by systematically adding whole steps results in 18 "Grips" that lead up step by step to the Pentatonic scales. It's devised for Jazz Violin but I think it's applicable to any instrument.
Timbre = Tamber, phonetically.
Thank you
Ok, first off,.. You do need this as well, But, but you do need to know your intervals, notes, chords, etc,.. thats ALL a part lf ear training,.. you are sooo wrong about not doing interval training!!!!! You need both!!! And you need to know your scales for this too!! You cant pick out a major and minor scale or major and minor chords without knowing your intervals!! Are you kidding right now? Because i absolutely cannot stress on how important it is to have ALL those things do develop aural skills!! You need to know your notes and intervals in order to know the major and minor chords and scales!!!
Hi Kyla, please give a read to the comments from my students you can find in this comment section. I teach ear training to thousands of successful students while telling them to never think about intervals nor practice interval exercises. Moreover I suggest you check out this video ua-cam.com/video/MbrmbYaIidY/v-deo.html
where I explain why intervals are detrimental for beginner/intermediate students, but can be beneficial for advanced ones. In the video, I also talk a bit about my story and how I've developed my ear training method. It might be interesting to you, but please keep an open mindset. I'm not interested in arguing with people. I'm providing clear and undeniable proof about what I say, such as scientific studies, students opinion, video of students improving their skills after following the UYE method, etc. Lastly, let me assure you that you can recognize major and minor chords without practicing interval based exercises, or without even knowing what an interval is. I say this to relieve you from the burden of having to practice tedious interval ear training 😉
@@UseYourEar Its not detrimental,.. its important in addition to everything else,.. And actually, if one does not know what an interval is, they may only know the difference in quality of a chord, but not understand what makes it what it is, therefore, yes, you do at some extent need to know intervals,.. it’s a matter of how you use the exercise, but you I would not say that its a bad or detrimental exercise
@@kaylasmusic I'm sorry, you are wrong. You can recognize melodies, chords, etc. without thinking of intervals at all. Indeed, that's easier to do than using intervals. Also interval ear training, as it is done by most people, is very detrimental for beginners and intermediate students. Did you read the other comments under this video? Did you watch the video I linked in my previous comment? thanks
@@UseYourEar Ok,.. Why would it be detrimental or bad? If so, then what basic exercises do you recommend in order to learn all of the necessary techniques? Because I have no idea what you mean by all those stuff that you mention in your videos and they don’t seem to make any sense at most parts,.. If so, what apps would you recommend or suggest?
@@kaylasmusic check out this video ua-cam.com/video/MbrmbYaIidY/v-deo.html