Hi. Thank you for this video. I appreciate so much your enthusiasm and willingness to take the tube plunge. I understand so well the importance of quality tubes. Cryotone I would love to try. Seem like very promising new production tubes.
Awesome. After your review of the Sarah. I decided I must hear it. Especially if I have to wait 3years to get it. I made the journey to Peoria Illinois (Decware). I auditioned the Sarah paired to open baffle speakers (ZF15L). I was blown away. This is the sound I have been looking for. I cannot put into words how much I enjoyed the system. Here is a fun story that may help. My wife joined me for the audition. She doesn’t listen with me, yet she indulges me when I ask her to listen to my latest tweak. After hearing a couple of songs from the Sarah/open baffle system she leans in and whispers in my ear, “You are buying this.” In closing I have to state that meeting Steve Deckert made me even more confident about the company and the components Decware produces. Steve is an artist. He knows what it takes to design excellent sounding audio. I am looking forward to getting my Sarah and Decware phono preamp. Three years, isn’t too long to wait for something this wonderful. So Cryotone tubes. Sounds like should order the full compliment and cancel the stock tubes that come with it. What say you?
"After hearing a couple of songs from the Sarah/open baffle system she leans in and whispers in my ear, “You are buying this.” You sir are a very lucky man.
Lucky man indeed, but I'll give you one better. I went for speakers, my wife bought them for me. I know that means she has to endure me less, but I rather ignore that 😂
@@ericelmore887 remember there is a big price difference… between cryotone and the horizon series. Have not tried kt88 of cryotone.. that being said, my reference gear uses cryotone, 300B, 845, 6sn7, 12bh7, 5u4g, 12au7, 12ax7…
Hey Caveman, a huge thank you for this! I've had my Doge 10 for a couple of years and I'm ready to try an upgrade. I won't try 20 different tubes, I will just start and end here. Take care!
you say you used 12BH7 made by cryotone. there is not manufacturer by that name. theyre a resell company that puts tubes they purchase thru a cryogenic process before they rebrand and resell them. im very curious what tubes they treat and rebrand--do you know what tubes they treat and rebrand? i very much enjoy your descriptions.
gotcha, @@hificave. the tubes on their website all look like generic chinese to me. i got real excited about seeing 12BH7. you stated they were used in mastering labs. what legit mastering labs/engineers are using cryotone tubes?
I have a Wellsinton R800i-805 amp with the stock 274B rectifier tube (Wellsinton labeled Shuguang I guess). I rolled it to Sophia Electric Aqua2. The difference is day/night. The treble just opens up.❤ From what I heard, I think good rectifier could just supply high freq current better when those 300B called for. But I cannot adjust the 300B bias to the manual spec 120mA because Aqua2 274B can supply 220mA so the bias for each tube just go down to 110mA. My new amp is LM-845 premium using diode rectifiers so can't listen to 274b anymore.😢
Damn background music, out on the deck watching this with headphones. I hear a greathorned owl and rush in to find out if our cats outside, wife's out there yelling for him. Apparently the cat not worry!
I’ve had Walthen Crtotone au7 and ax7’s in my DecWare ZP3 phono stage for over a year. These had better air and imaging than all the previous tubes I used. Just bought a oa3wc and 5u4gb-wc. I didn’t know these were available.
The greatest barriers to wider adoption of tubes is the potential expense involved in tube rolling and the patience it requires to fully evaluate them. Arguably, it's a game for those who are well off and who have too much time on their hands... ;-)
@ good morning thanks for responding, l know you are the tube whisperer .. that why I asked. I just received my amp back from being upgraded ..Steve Guttenberg just did a review the other day on it. Rogue dark. As you said in prior reviews, certain tube amps are very sensitive to changing out tubes. So mine is the 1 -12au7 in the input stage. if you watch Steve’s review the opportunity to improve my amp would be a sharper more focused , etched out instruments in the soundstage. So that’s why I was trying to compare between the telefunken and cryotone 12au7.
I have a quick question, I am about to get my Sarah amp, and I wanted to know if you're running yours through the Puritan 156 you had raved about? Also did you know that Wathen can cryo your whole amp for $600, they claim that it's even more effective than cryo on tubes.
PS- That was me watching your video reviews and being so excited, but so tired, and trying to watch the last golden seconds as you lulled me to sleep... HA
Yes, tubes do matter. I bought LinLai 6SN7 and they are dead quiet and do sound superb. Looks like a good alternative. What brand are the cryotone tubes?
Hi.. from Portugal. Two questions: I have Cayin A845 Pro 25th Anniversary Edition amplifier.. i read so many saying so well of the Willsenton R800i with 805 tubes.. i dont know what you think of it. About the Wathen 6SN7 WC tubes.. in your review, the base is black but in the site is brown.. they are the same?
No worries about what you see on the site, once A tube becomes a cryotone, its a completely new thing! I love the Cayin a845. I personally prefer the Cayin over the r800i. I found the Cayin warmer and smoother. But it could be system dependant.
@hificave I have ProAc D100 loudspeakers and Gustard R26 dac as I use it also as a streamer.. I have in my amplifier cv181-z 50 years Treasures(they are black), psvane hifi 300B-N, and psvane hifi 845B.
@@hificave one more question: and what about the Willsenton R300? is it better than both? as my loudspeakers are 92db, maybe could not have problems with this amplifier.
@ my experience is very small with the r300. I had 3 experiences a mediocre one, a good one, a crazy amazing one. What I cant say is, reliability, and reality of ownership on the long term. Definitely works better with 91db plus, but I would not go over 97db as those speakers might reveal a bit of the flaws this amp might have. Ie, it sounded mediocre with a full range 100db single driver. But with a 92db boxed 3 way speaker using a pontus dac, wow!
I hear you. Let me tell you, that in my 50+ years of owning many expensive gears and many custom-made, modded pieces, and of course including tube gears I'm finally staying and enjoying class D. For several reasons you had mentioned like the available 'quality' from even well known and in the past respected brands. For the price of ONE tube or less I can roll OPT amps, that break in much easier, and LAST. I don't have to worry about searching for the matching replacement and dish out a ton of money. An OPT amps will last longer, ALL your tubes combined and won't lose quality like tubes do after a short time of months, and these OPT amps drive both my LII Audio W-15 bass drivers with ease, and the bass volume is at around the 10 o'clock position and never needs more, yet it weights under 16 lbs. total. I need a better mike to record my system's quality better, and because at times it gets downgraded by YT because they don't like some of my comments, that don't fit...their demented criteria online. Just click on my name. Anyway Class D came a long way baby................
I wish i would have known about Crytone before buying Raytheon 5670's for my Audio Note Dac(with adapters), the Raytheons sound great, subtly better than the bugle boy logo 6dj8's i had. Now im curious about the Crytone 396a. My preamp and dac uses 6202/6x4/ez90 rectifiers, but Wathan does not offer these. My preamp uses 6072/12AY7 and my power amp uses 6550 and 6bx7, none offered by Wathan Crytone. I wonder if they do custom cryo treatments. They're apparently located in Houston where i live.
@@boonchyelim8598 sylvania will influence the sonic character, maybe in a good way maybe in a bad way, depends on the gear it is used in, it might sound good but it could also sound worse. Cryotone will intensify the existing voicing of the component it is used in.
I’d need a tube amp w/ a mono switch if there is such a thing because I have mono vinyl and CDs. My restored Pioneer SX1250 has it and tone controls😊 I’m a tube noob!
You could take this one step further and argue the importance of a DC power conditioner over the rectifier. Same rabbit hole with similar arguments. Pros and cons.
you will hear what you want to hear ! put a graphic equaliser like the loki on your input and you have a range of sounds ............ without spending thousands on thermionic valves
I recently bought a preowned (2004) Sira Preamp that has 18 tubes driving my 300B amp. That preamp took my system to a level I never thought possible. Plus the glow in the dark is mesmerizing.
@@ronniecramer1252 I also like the tube glow. Like watching a fireplace. I don't know if it is psychological that I like the sound better. But it seems to have space around the sounds that is rare in the solid state amps I have owned or heard.
@@HD-su9sq I have 110W OTL monoblocks. There are 3 small signal tubes and 4 large 6c33c power triodes per channel. Then my digital source has a dual mono output with a rectifier and a triode per channel. So 9 triodes per channel. So all of the above. Good sound, visuals and a cozy source of heat.
Hi. Thank you for this video. I appreciate so much your enthusiasm and willingness to take the tube plunge. I understand so well the importance of quality tubes. Cryotone I would love to try. Seem like very promising new production tubes.
Awesome. After your review of the Sarah. I decided I must hear it. Especially if I have to wait 3years to get it. I made the journey to Peoria Illinois (Decware). I auditioned the Sarah paired to open baffle speakers (ZF15L).
I was blown away. This is the sound I have been looking for. I cannot put into words how much I enjoyed the system.
Here is a fun story that may help. My wife joined me for the audition. She doesn’t listen with me, yet she indulges me when I ask her to listen to my latest tweak. After hearing a couple of songs from the Sarah/open baffle system she leans in and whispers in my ear, “You are buying this.”
In closing I have to state that meeting Steve Deckert made me even more confident about the company and the components Decware produces. Steve is an artist. He knows what it takes to design excellent sounding audio.
I am looking forward to getting my Sarah and Decware phono preamp. Three years, isn’t too long to wait for something this wonderful.
So Cryotone tubes. Sounds like should order the full compliment and cancel the stock tubes that come with it. What say you?
Yesssss!! Your wife is awesome! I vote full cryotone on Sarah amp! Its Stellar!!!!
"After hearing a couple of songs from the Sarah/open baffle system she leans in and whispers in my ear, “You are buying this.”
You sir are a very lucky man.
Lucky man indeed, but I'll give you one better. I went for speakers, my wife bought them for me.
I know that means she has to endure me less, but I rather ignore that 😂
@@hificavehave you heard any KT 88’s from cryotone and how would they compare to Psvane horizon KT 88?
@@ericelmore887 remember there is a big price difference… between cryotone and the horizon series.
Have not tried kt88 of cryotone.. that being said, my reference gear uses cryotone, 300B, 845, 6sn7, 12bh7, 5u4g, 12au7, 12ax7…
I love listening to your clips before bed 🫠
Lol
Wonderful discussion, 2nd video, new subscriber!
Also appreciate the beautiful nature backgrounds!
Welcome to the channel!
Hey Caveman, a huge thank you for this! I've had my Doge 10 for a couple of years and I'm ready to try an upgrade. I won't try 20 different tubes, I will just start and end here. Take care!
you say you used 12BH7 made by cryotone. there is not manufacturer by that name. theyre a resell company that puts tubes they purchase thru a cryogenic process before they rebrand and resell them.
im very curious what tubes they treat and rebrand--do you know what tubes they treat and rebrand?
i very much enjoy your descriptions.
I do not officially know. I think its more than one source. Some, have looked similar to JJ. But its the sound… no comparison to JJ in sonic quality.
gotcha, @@hificave. the tubes on their website all look like generic chinese to me. i got real excited about seeing 12BH7.
you stated they were used in mastering labs. what legit mastering labs/engineers are using cryotone tubes?
I have a Wellsinton R800i-805 amp with the stock 274B rectifier tube (Wellsinton labeled Shuguang I guess). I rolled it to Sophia Electric Aqua2. The difference is day/night. The treble just opens up.❤ From what I heard, I think good rectifier could just supply high freq current better when those 300B called for. But I cannot adjust the 300B bias to the manual spec 120mA because Aqua2 274B can supply 220mA so the bias for each tube just go down to 110mA. My new amp is LM-845 premium using diode rectifiers so can't listen to 274b anymore.😢
Damn background music, out on the deck watching this with headphones. I hear a greathorned owl and rush in to find out if our cats outside, wife's out there yelling for him. Apparently the cat not worry!
The background music ducked, and minus 16 db to my voice track. The owl is real tho.
I’ve had Walthen Crtotone au7 and ax7’s in my DecWare ZP3 phono stage for over a year.
These had better air and imaging than all the previous tubes I used. Just bought a oa3wc and 5u4gb-wc. I didn’t know these were available.
How do you like the 5u4g?
The greatest barriers to wider adoption of tubes is the potential expense involved in tube rolling and the patience it requires to fully evaluate them. Arguably, it's a game for those who are well off and who have too much time on their hands... ;-)
Trying to get your thoughts on sound difference of vintage NOS soft plate telefunken 12AU7 compared to cryotone 12AU7 ?
Cant say, its been too long since I had telefunkens. And
@ good morning thanks for responding, l know you are the tube whisperer .. that why I asked. I just received my amp back from being upgraded ..Steve Guttenberg just did a review the other day on it. Rogue dark. As you said in prior reviews, certain tube amps are very sensitive to changing out tubes. So mine is the 1 -12au7 in the input stage. if you watch Steve’s review the opportunity to improve my amp would be a sharper more focused , etched out instruments in the soundstage. So that’s why I was trying to compare between the telefunken and cryotone 12au7.
I have a quick question, I am about to get my Sarah amp, and I wanted to know if you're running yours through the Puritan 156 you had raved about? Also did you know that Wathen can cryo your whole amp for $600, they claim that it's even more effective than cryo on tubes.
Puritan is always in my system.
How do the cryotones stack up against the western electric in sound performance?
I prefer the tonal density of cryotone. But its dependant on the gear…
PS- That was me watching your video reviews and being so excited, but so tired, and trying to watch the last golden seconds as you lulled me to sleep... HA
Whaaaaat? Lol
Yes, tubes do matter. I bought LinLai 6SN7 and they are dead quiet and do sound superb. Looks like a good alternative. What brand are the cryotone tubes?
Hi.. from Portugal.
Two questions:
I have Cayin A845 Pro 25th Anniversary Edition amplifier.. i read so many saying so well of the Willsenton R800i with 805 tubes.. i dont know what you think of it.
About the Wathen 6SN7 WC tubes.. in your review, the base is black but in the site is brown.. they are the same?
No worries about what you see on the site, once A tube becomes a cryotone, its a completely new thing!
I love the Cayin a845. I personally prefer the Cayin over the r800i.
I found the Cayin warmer and smoother. But it could be system dependant.
@hificave I have ProAc D100 loudspeakers and Gustard R26 dac as I use it also as a streamer.. I have in my amplifier cv181-z 50 years Treasures(they are black), psvane hifi 300B-N, and psvane hifi 845B.
@@hificave one more question: and what about the Willsenton R300? is it better than both? as my loudspeakers are 92db, maybe could not have problems with this amplifier.
@ my experience is very small with the r300.
I had 3 experiences a mediocre one, a good one, a crazy amazing one. What I cant say is, reliability, and reality of ownership on the long term. Definitely works better with 91db plus, but I would not go over 97db as those speakers might reveal a bit of the flaws this amp might have. Ie, it sounded mediocre with a full range 100db single driver. But with a 92db boxed 3 way speaker using a pontus dac, wow!
@@hificave better sound that the A845 Pro?
What is your opinion without your commitment? Should I change the amplifier to the Willsenton R300B Plus?
I found my rectifier tube in my Sophia Electric Aqua II.
Nice!!
I hear you. Let me tell you, that in my 50+ years of owning many expensive gears and many custom-made, modded pieces, and of course including tube gears I'm finally staying and enjoying class D. For several reasons you had mentioned like the available 'quality' from even well known and in the past respected brands. For the price of ONE tube or less I can roll OPT amps, that break in much easier, and LAST. I don't have to worry about searching for the matching replacement and dish out a ton of money.
An OPT amps will last longer, ALL your tubes combined and won't lose quality like tubes do after a short time of months, and these OPT amps drive both my LII Audio W-15 bass drivers with ease, and the bass volume is at around the 10 o'clock position and never needs more, yet it weights under 16 lbs. total. I need a better mike to record my system's quality better, and because at times it gets downgraded by YT because they don't like some of my comments, that don't fit...their demented criteria online. Just click on my name. Anyway Class D came a long way baby................
Class d does sound great now.
@@hificave Yep... it does, and without headaches, and endangering ones the bank account 🙂
Eh mamma mia... stop making me spend money
I wish i would have known about Crytone before buying Raytheon 5670's for my Audio Note Dac(with adapters), the Raytheons sound great, subtly better than the bugle boy logo 6dj8's i had. Now im curious about the Crytone 396a. My preamp and dac uses 6202/6x4/ez90 rectifiers, but Wathan does not offer these. My preamp uses 6072/12AY7 and my power amp uses 6550 and 6bx7, none offered by Wathan Crytone. I wonder if they do custom cryo treatments. They're apparently located in Houston where i live.
Reach out to them, Don and his folks are great people. They might have tubes that are not on the site.
Just watched thomas's video coverage on your system. I wonder if you are to do this all over again, what would you do with 5k, 10k, 20k budget.
Good question! Great idea for a video
Hv you tried sylvania tubes 12bh7 ?
Its been a few years.
How u rate cryotone vs sylvania 12bh7?
@@boonchyelim8598 sylvania will influence the sonic character, maybe in a good way maybe in a bad way, depends on the gear it is used in, it might sound good but it could also sound worse. Cryotone will intensify the existing voicing of the component it is used in.
@@hificavemy sylvania is very good sounding, but u hv me interested in cryotone in my next tube replacement / rolling.. Thk you for yr video....
Production level - GOD MODE.... :)
God mode???? IDDQD
I’d need a tube amp w/ a mono switch if there is such a thing because I have mono vinyl and CDs. My restored Pioneer SX1250 has it and tone controls😊 I’m a tube noob!
you can get a phono amp with a mono switch, you can get a plug-in stereo to mono, heck you can even buy a mono cartridge
You need to visit this year's Decfest!
I know. I want to.
I'd like to try these with my Cayin CS55a, they have several options for the 12ax7 tube, not sure which one would be best...any advice? Thank you!
You like mid or details?
Long plate gold man. Thats what I’d do with cayin cs55a
@@hificave ummm....both? haha
@@hificave thank you! I've got a Decware Zen coming sometime too!
What speakers are you using with the Sarah?
Diy open baffle using lii-song full range drivers
@@hificave thank you
My birthday is coming 😉lolll great video 👍
Yeah I want to get you cryotone kt88
@@hificave would be interesting on my amp 🤔
@@HifiBoomer wish it was tube rectified.
I almost bought one after watching this video. but shipping cost to canada killed all my enthusiasm…😂
You could take this one step further and argue the importance of a DC power conditioner over the rectifier. Same rabbit hole with similar arguments. Pros and cons.
So many layers!
you will hear what you want to hear ! put a graphic equaliser like the loki on your input and you have a range of sounds ............ without spending thousands on thermionic valves
🍻😎
I thought I was bad. I only use 18 tubes to play a tune :)
Hahahahahaha! 18!!! What a looooooser!! Just kidding. You’re awesome.
I recently bought a preowned (2004) Sira Preamp that has 18 tubes driving my 300B amp. That preamp took my system to a level I never thought possible. Plus the glow in the dark is mesmerizing.
@@ronniecramer1252 I also like the tube glow. Like watching a fireplace.
I don't know if it is psychological that I like the sound better. But it seems to have space around the sounds that is rare in the solid state amps I have owned or heard.
My amp only uses 4. Are the rest for heating, or just cozy visuals ;-)
@@HD-su9sq I have 110W OTL monoblocks. There are 3 small signal tubes and 4 large 6c33c power triodes per channel. Then my digital source has a dual mono output with a rectifier and a triode per channel. So 9 triodes per channel.
So all of the above. Good sound, visuals and a cozy source of heat.
Hi, I live in Sweden. Where can you buy Cryotone tubes?
www.wathenspeakers.com/products.html
Cryotone tubes are mainly cheap JJ tubes so you are paying $$$$ for a simple cryo treatment.
Its not a typical cryo treatment. The cryotone process is much much more rigorous and tube selection is of an extreme nature.