We need to notice thet even ultra frequency is existing it may be produced by instrument at so low level that it is completly overhelmed by those which we fully perceive and which are produced in its main acoustic range charcteristic for it's material and shape. . . In graphs of analyzers we see top sopranos represented by colors and shape that they exist but no many people look at scale - if they exist at say 40 db below say zero level compare to 5 khz (how much is in reality evel of 20kHz harmonic for hit hat? ?) Listening to original instrument it should be less noticeable than awerage noise level in room. Even for percussion instruments the power of produced top harmonics is just small particle of those below 10kHz - add to it 10 db less hearing sensitivity and it shows that it is may be as important as mosquito fly during loud music.
Yet the majority of audiophiles have limited hearing and equipment that cannot play these frequencies, with recordings not containing these frequencies, with three foot cables than cannot produce a hearable perceived skin effect difference even by a bat. Most Audio systems still cannot create a perceivable difference in an E flat an F bass note, despite one basically being like a looser string, rounder with more oomph. Despite everything we believe about human hearing and audiophiles having better ears than Superman mated with a bat, audiophiles and all over music lovers sit between two MDF cheap cabinets with vibrating speakers competely unlike an actual instrument trying to convey a compete band in an untreated room with average electronics and talk about chocolate midbands and velvet highs. And due to how weak the human mind is, we will be tricked by two vibrating cones into perceiving a sound stage, instruments and performers. We are quite litteraly duped into imagining what we hear, so much is phsycoacoustic and placebo, to the point even seeing something can make us imagine it sounds a particular way, in teh early years many thought thin pure silver interconnects sounded, you guessed it, thin and detailed, and fatter OFC copper cables sounded more rounded and bass heavy, nothing to do with measured sound, it was looks, because in many cases if you put a thin cable into a massive looking cable, they heard a different sound. There is also blind tests showing audiophiles unable to notice a coat hanger, or even a £150 Alesis budget power amp, or a chair vs a hifi rack, in system tests.
Hey Ana(dia)log, I am your German counterpart. I made a video a few month ago explaining why "audiophile fuses" are snakeoil. I explained how amplifiers power supplies and rectifying works etc. After the video was released a hifi dealer contacted me (or wrote a comment) and said like: "yes alright I understand your technical explanation, but have you yourself ever tested such a fuse, not by measuring but by listening to it?" Well I never did so he offered to send me 2 fuses for my amp and phono-amp to test it myself. So I tested it and it was very easily audible. Then in a live stream I poke about it that I was wrong, that it makes no sense from a technical perspective but you can still very easily hear it. Pf course some of my subscribers were very angry, some even ended the subscription and some made fun of me. What did I learn from it? Always be careful what you call snakeoil. There are some things we can't explain but we can still hear it. Our ears don't have a physics phd.
Potentially can Totaly agree with you, believe you, but have you pay attention on ratings on that fuses? Are they with markings "F", "M" or "T"? What markings if original are? So, counterpart, be Germanly precise, please, when speaking in technical terms. Please.
Honestly if someone is open minded and after trying better changes his mind, they will have all my respect and appreciation. It's difficult to change idea, especially for your viewers that didn't have the occasion to test the fuses.
@@colloidalsilverwater15ppm88 yes it was exactly the same fuse, but sonically it should not make a difference if you use a standard fuse or a solid copper cylinder because on many amps you can bull the power plug and they continue playing for 20sec because of the huge capacitors behind the rectifier. Oh and talking about a bind test, the company selling these fuses performed a blind test at the last high end exhibition in Munich, Germany and almost everybody was able to spot the difference. (I was not present but I was told by some people that they did and that it worked)
100% Guido. Totally aligned here. I already know you’re unfortunately going to get some argumentative comments calling BS, but those are people without experience or understanding. The first to cry snake oil is people who only go by specs or measurements. Both are of course are very useful and important, especially in designing gear, but only to a point. Listening is the true test. I’ve used this quote before, but it still rings true. It goes something like, “We’re able to hear most we are able to measure, but we can’t necessarily measure everything we’re able to hear” - Herb Reichert Thanks, Guido! Appreciate you and your vids.
I have to say this is an excellent and informative video, and it’s very well presented, hence I’m happy to subscribe to this channel and, as a result, unsubscribe from a one or two - possibly three - other UA-cam hifi channels which weren’t answering my many and varied hifi questions. I look forward to going through your past videos as I’m sure I’ll pick up a lot of good tips and general information/knowledge. Nice one😊
Hey Guido, another great video and I totally agree. You allways have to listen to devices and a certain brand is no garantie that your ears like it. What sounds good to ones ears is good and burning in is the most important factor. Had this experience with a phono preamp. Forgot to turn it off over night when it was new and after listening again, it sounded better than before. Same with old tapedecks. The components do get revitalized when getting used again.
If you design an audio amplifier with a frequency response up to 20kHz, then effectively you create a “filter” that rolls of the frequencies above 20kHz. Depending on your design, the frequency response curve will be flat up to 20kHz (within the specified tolerance). However also depending on your design, there will be more or less phase shifts in the audible spectrum around that filter point. If you design an audio that amplifier put to let’s say 40 or 60 kHz, then these phase shifts will also start at a higher (inaudible) frequency. These phase shifts are audible since our perception of a stereo image are bases on phase shifts that we hear when the sound waves enter our ears.
As someone who mainly restores cassette decks, I can only confirm that a 'burn-in' phase is unavoidable for the device. This applies to both the mechanical and the electronic components. The temperature development alone in a closed device changes the interaction of all components considerably. The same naturally applies to new devices.
Almost every snake oil part has increased my satisfaction every time. I’ve noticed some snake oil items that I’ve removed because it was a negative effect. Like an EQ component was adding audible distortion. I’ve tried high end copper, silver plated copper and silver. I’ve found my nirvana with silver. I currently use my Mac Mini digital equalizer which has more band adjustments.
There could be a placebo effect too! But it's not only a matter of measurable performance, sometimes the feel of having something cool and special is enjoyable too
Hi Guido, There are some really worthwhile points you have made in this video. 1. Sub frequencies I would argue are even more important than high frequency. In my system, as you know, I have Wilson Alexia loudspeakers. I also have a Wilson Watchdog subwoofer. I don't necessarily use the subwoofer to lower the frequency response of my main speakers a comfortably produced bass down to 20 Hz, but I used the subwoofer to correct room modes in sub frequencies, which are usually the area, we have the biggest problems in most listening rooms. I agree with you that extending the frequency range of our audio equipment by using super tweeters and subwoofers does enhance the audible range of our hearing. 2. Agree with you in relation to specifications of equipment it's funny that my Vitus monoblock amplifiers state in their specs their rated power output is and I quote "more than enough."😂 I love this because essentially it's just taking the piss out of specifications.They mean nothing in my opinion as you rightly say it's all about how it sounds and how a particular piece of equipment sinks in your audio. 3. I know my friend you've done a lot of work on cables as have I. You make great points about insulation dielectric properties it really is super important in a good cable. Obviously, conductor materials are equally as important as connectors, where resistance is often at its highest. I also agree with you around the pricing of cables. Some of them are absolutely ludicrous, and there should be a rough equation around spending 10 to 15% of your entire Hi-Fi budget on cabling. I find that's a pretty good rule of thumb, but of course, there are always exceptions. 4. Cleaning up power is super important I use a PLiXiR3000 balanced power conditioner for all of my components and I have 3 20amp dedicated lines 2 for my monoblock amplifiers with the third dedicated line that runs the power conditioner very important stuff in high-end audio equipment. I always say the higher the resolution, the more you have to pay attention to the 1 and 2%ers. 5. Burn in is definitely something, especially in anything mechanical like subwoofers or speakers. The differences are very audible. In solid state electrical components not as obvious, but still there is an overall improvement with time. I've essentially agreed with everything you've said in this video Guido but just expanded a little bit in relation to my 35 years experience in this crazy hobby. Like you, I wish some of this stuff didn't make as much of a difference as I've heard it make. It would make life and my bank balance look a whole lot better.🎧👍👌
Peter Qvortrup is the ultimate advocate of listening to the differences that even top quality components make in Audio Note equippment. They choose components that contribute the best combination of qualities to the sound. That is what makes Audionote a compelling proposition.
I am still very happy with my SKW speaker cables you recommended a few years ago. I have tried several other more expensive cables since and I have returned them all.
Why does my Sugden Class A amp need about an hour of warm-up before it does sound right? Running cold it does have less body thinner highs. Any techninal explanation?
It's because the electronic components (transistors) need settling time before they are working properly my Denon poa6600a have the same issue they will sound a bit rough mostly in the low end when they are cold Kind of stupid but you can compare it with an old car wich needs shoke when cold and needs to warm up before running smoothly
Class A is the purest for overall sound, but it wastes a LOT of energy as heat because the output devices are fully "on" all the time. And because of that, the whole amplifier has to warm up before it reaches thermal stability, which takes at least an hour. Some may need more time than that. The alternative is leaving it on 24/7, which you will notice on your energy bill. A typical solid-state class A/B amplifier, on the other hand, reaches thermal stability in a matter of a few minutes.
Regarding Hi res recordings and reproduction: 1. Analog systems that are specified "only" 20KHz (Main bottle neck is the speakers) are typically capable of reaching the 40Khz not flat but at - 6 dB lower due to "normal Roll Off" of 6 dB per octave. Same goes for microphones. 2. Digital "CD quality" recordings completely Block these frequencies using means of a "Brick wall filter" set to ~21Khz which greatly affect the audible frequencies in terms of phase distortion. 3. We cannot hear the presence of a constant sine wave of above 12Khz (20Khz) i.e. 30Khz. However we do hear envelope modulation of audio energy at ranges 20Khz to 40KHz (and Above) if this envelope modulates at audible frequencies (I.e. 1 Khz). An impulse of sound (Drum Stick hitting a cymbal) produces real life energy which can reach the 100KHz area. if limited to 48Khz, you get half the energy in reproduction. If limited to 21Khz you get 25% of the actual energy (Dynamics) of that sound. When a low level audible range harmonics are extended to the 20KHz 40KHz envelope band , it's presence and Definition (audio resolution) is doubled. All the above is conditioned of course to being first captured by the recordings means and reproduction chain. 4. I have a professional and even commercial experience in 1000's of old LP conversion to digital. I can tell you that most LP's contains musical information that reaches up to the 40Khz area. many have more that that. The Maximum I was able to measure reached the 60Khz area. 5. Of Course, the presence of a "HiRes" data File by itself is not a guaranty to the presence of HiRes audible information as we all know is very easy to convert low res audio files into hi res files format. I measure the HiRes Files of streaming services, mainly Tidal, and find differences between HiRes Files presented there. Some are truly hires, some are low res converted to Hires. BTW: I found that MQA format behavior (Now Abended by Tidal) is an artificially generated HiRss Content at 20Khz to 40Khx of a 44.0Khz origin music. 6. In a Subjective way of description, the Hires musical content adds a more "life like Metal" Feeling to guitar Strings, Cymbals, Brass, The Lack of that range bring the feeling of that sound more to the "Nylon Type" behavior Regarding Specs: Specs never tells how good is the system, Only How Bad (of some times how limited) is your system. In the 70s, a GRUNDING FM portable device sounded great and very enjoyable comparing to it's Japanese rivals. FM live music programs sounds so good even though FM reproduction is limited to 16Khz. There is a difference between enjoyable and faithful. The linearity of a Reproduction system is defined 1st by by the specs. I always preferred an analog amplifier with 100Khz FR. The 0.0001% distortion is not a guaranty for a faithful performance than 0.1% as it can easy being achieved by an overdone feedback loop gain which create an unpleasant musical experience. I am using my same reproduction system also as a Remastering system and there for requires the system to be accurate and enjoyable at same time so for example a tube system do not meet this requirement (At list not in my $$$ budget level) . Regarding Cables: 1. The Affect of Cable on a system performance is depends on System component sensitivity to cable, mainly by output and load impedance sensitivity. A 4 ohm Speaker will be double more sensitive to a 8Ohm speaker. A 1 meter cable will be 3 times better than a 3 meter cable of same type. A tube amplifier will be 10 time sensitive to a Load (including the cables) that a transistor amplifier. A Transistor amplifier with to High feedback loop will be more sensitive to load than a proper designed transistor amplifier. A tube amplifier input will be ore sensitive to inter connect affect than a transistor amplifier. A Higher sensitivity speaker will be an easier load to any amplimer comparing to a lower sensitivity speaker. A well designed power supply and well designed to RF immunity Amplifier and other system components will be les affected by a power cables than sensitive component. A 2 Meter Listening position will be 4 time easier for the system reproduction than a 4 meters listening position based system. So it is a matter of SPECS and knowledge to choose the right component and to do a proper match between system components where some systems can be using a "simple" caballing and other which are more sensitive requires a much better caballing. At any case you would need to have a very high definition system and listening room inorder to be able to experience the differences. Regarding Power: Unless you are using a Class A amplifier, the current drawn for your speaker is translated to a current drawn from the AC power. AS if you have a 1 meter speaker cable and 10 meters of Power cable you need a very good power cable. Regarding shielding the power cable: Similar but not the same same as shielding of the Speaker cable. Shielding the Speaker cable is a disaster in terms of capacitance load for the high frequencies. However, The Current drawn from AC power is in the 100Hz area. The Amplifier handles the high frequency demand using internal capacity storage. Regarding low power deices (Pre amp, DACs Atc): No problem of using a shielded cable. The Shielded cable (including for Power Amp) is needed (if needed) to protect EMI sensitive audio components which mean a not best designed products or in other words: to cover a poorly designed component of the system. In Generally it is better to have a system built from quiet and not sensitive components rather than to try fix the problem with shielding and power conditioning. Of Course, filtering the mains power input is always good to have. Regarding Burn in: If I Buy a new Shoe, I need to give it some time till it optimize its performance so for speakers for sure there is a period till it gets to have a stabilized performance.. If I buy A Smart phone, I do not need to burn in the device so for a DAC? I am not sure I will need a burn in time. For an analogue Transistor Amplifier? I am not usre. For A Tube Amplifier: Definitely. for a Phono Cartridge: Definitely. In Hifi, if I set a new gear component, in most cases time the "burn in" needed is for me to get used to the new sound, regardless if the component really needs a burn in period or not. I thank you very much for you interesting videos and items you bring for discussions.
When I was younger in my teens and early twenties I would purchase components based on specifications. I learned very quickly after selling one of the best sounding systems I ever owned that I should just trust my ears. Now in my mid sixties and with failing hearing I’ve found that very good quality hearing aids can improve my listening experience. So now I can again only trust what I can hear.
I’ve been into Audio components since the 90s, don’t call myself an audiophile though as I consider that an illness. I would say that the only difference I’ve heard with cables RCA and speakers is Pure Silver core vs Copper. Absolutely no denying the fact they sound different because one ‘slightly’ distorts the signal and the other is the clearer path. There is no cable better than another only personal preference. I am a silver lover
Brave, to be honest. I bought a PS Audio Power Plant (to protect my vintage equipment from high voltage (250v+ often in summer)) and i didn't expect it to sound better. It really did.. So I built my own power cables (thanks for the videos) and that did more than I expected too.. For cables. If your system can't resolve the subtleties these cables bring, there's no point. Perhaps it depends on age of equipment, but interconnects? Surely. Good UTP (network cables) work fine for speakers up to 750 euros a pair in my experience. Again, from your videos i decided to try speaker cable. Oh right, that did a lot... Since then (and lots of experimentation on lots of Systems with lots of people), i try first. Then again, if anyone doesn't believe it, don't do any of it. It WILL save you money. Well sort of, because now your equipment has to compensate for sub par elements in the signal chain, meaning you'll probably need to buy more expensive speakers and amps. I still see it happen regularly..
Something that I have been verifying with my ears over the past few weeks is that my speakers sound so much better directly connected to my terminals with bare wire instead of the banana plugs I had. Really big difference IMO with my smsl sa300 connected to ADS L780 on my desktop. I will be doing this on my L980s in the big room soon. I know that GR Danny says that tube connections are the best so bare wire has to be right there also with surface area connection but I was losing alot of connection with banana plugs not compressing and touching the whole sidewall inside of the terminal. Anyway, that's my "snake-oil" experience....
Sometimes bottlenecks aren't that bad. Some or many "hi-res" files have a very high level of ultrasonic noise (it's not music) that some tweeters try to reproduce (resonances). I upgrade these files to CD-A quality.
Exactly they forget that the internal wiring and soldered links within equipment are much lower gauge and far less exotic than the cables they interconnect with. If overpriced cables made any difference the internals in the gear would be a bottle neck anyway, but they don’t think of that.
As a bona-fide audiophile, I wouldn't think of using pre-mixed snake oil. I raise my own audiophile-grade snakes in the back yard and use only the best ones to make oil. What a difference!
Agree with most of the points. What is missing to me is the power of suggestion. Is not enough, in my opinion, saying: "I ear differences, hence there are differences". I've experimented that and, even in this field, there are tons of studies. Buone feste Guido!
And in fact, since it can’t by definition be objective since I don’t have scientific proof, I clearly stated IN MY OPINION. I would never claim I hear stuff then it’s real. After all I am a scientist in my real job.
Placebo is overrated. Placebo is in the middle ground, in the gray field of HIfi. When something becomes much better or much worse, black and white, then it is true. When you think that it seems a little better (or worse) then you may be experiencing placebo.
From my experience speakers that have an ultrasonic high frequency responce can often sound awefull bad , particularly when excited with a C.D. . Some one once said "what you can't hear affects what you can hear " I'd agree , It makes what you can hear sound awefull BAD . Supersonics are for the Bat's and your Dog . Music is Harmonious , and all about the Sonics and the achoustics . Speakers that can manage around 13 to 15 Khz should sound good with C.D. and L.P. If the tweeter is a paper cone like the Bass / mid , results should be fine. That's what works for me .
even if burn in is true, it does not necessarily mean an improvement occurs. Sound could actually get worse, right? i'm guessing any method that tries to prove that burn-in is probably flawed. sometimes people tend to underestimate the placebo effect.
Yes it’s funny how burn in always seems to be an improvement, never worse and then after a magic number of hours changes suddenly stop rather than continuing and ending up with an ever changing or degrading sound. They all deny placebo because their golden ears are above such human fallibility.
Yes, there are frequencies beyond what people can audibly detect (even if they might be able to feel the vibrations of subsonic sounds). There are also frequencies beyond the range of studio recording equipment (sometimes by design) -- or frequencies that are limited or compressed so that (for example) they won't cause the cartridge stylus to jump out of the groove on a pressed LP. (There was a Beatles track that had to be withdrawn and remastered for that reason -- but I forget which song it was.) Many of my vintage '60s and '70s amps have high-pass and low-pass filter switches on them, limiting frequencies above or below certain levels that might be more than your ears or your equipment or your room can comfortably handle at certain volumes, depending on the recorded music you're listening to (acoustic 1950s Blue Note jazz? industrial metal? EDM? a string quartet? a Mahler symphony?). The question is: With your reproduction gear, in the sonic environment of your listening room, do you like the way the music sounds?
Hi Guido. Great video. Since we have talked about this for years, I'm not gonna write a novel about how much we agree - You already know. A couple of things I would like to point out though is that microphones aren't so much a limit as you seem to think. Think of measuring gear where the microphones go both very high and very low. Mic's are capable of more than most people think after being mislead by specs etc. And for instance some records (especially classical music) do contain frequencies up to 35 khz which can be played back with good pick ups and easily measured. We do have gear which can record and playback high frequencies. The 20-20khz phrase was pulled out of some idiot's ass back in the day to make things simpler and easier on themselves, but it has never had a place in the real world. And when it comes to cables I guess we have to live with the ridicule from Flat Earther's till we get measuring gear as precise and sensitive as our ears, because the difference is there and of course it will become possible to measure it at some point. Remember that people thought that black holes were silent till NASA proved them wrong? I hope you have had a really nice Christmas, and will have a Happy New Year. All the best from Denmark.
Hi Guido, I agree audio cables should be good quality & inexpensive but you failed to mention equipment connectors. I just took delivery of used equipment & job one was cleaning the connectors (RCA & speaker) with cotton buds & pure alcohol. The junk on the cotton buds was horrible. As an EE I disagree on expensive power cables but, for safety, I recommend a whole house surge protector. I use ferrite common-mode chokes on AC & all DC power leads (especially switch-mode power supplies) to reduce RF noise entering your system. HTH. Cheers!
May work, but only if its virgin snake oil, cold pressed on a cloudless full moon night by 90 years old master of his craft. Those other el cheapo run of the mill snake oils wont do it....
Merry Christmas..Tubes are magical like angels signing with silver dbs strings in mist ov dam😊 Tube box s2 with telefunken is not suggested it heats smelburn
Ever since digital and SINAD measurements, there is a distinct portion of audiophiles who cannot enjoy music unless they can 'understand' why it works. They are far more concerned with 'why' something works rather than 'if' it works. They are also the kind who insist something cannot perform in the way that others have directly experienced because of numbers they've read on a spec page. They will tell you that you couldn't have had your experience despite their having never shared that experience. These people tend to never find a truly musical sound because they are stuck in the idea that music is 'science' and nothing more. They deserve that situation because of their know-everything arrogance, combined with total ignorance. ASR site is filled with such clowns.
Hi, I have a microphone cable ( cordial 234- red, blue and the shield) with neutrik rca conectors. I know 2 methods to solder it (well just one :) : 1 both red and blue to hot+ and the shield to cold- 2 one from your videos : red to hot+ and blue to cold- with the shield together only at one end. ( I don t know if this method is better than the first point and i want to know this). Please send me a message when you have time, happy holidays! 🙏
The spec sheet would tell the whole story, but only if it would be complete (impossible) and all the measures done by third party with standardized procedure and equipment (very difficult). If differences can be heard they could be measured, but given all the nuances there can be in audio equipment the spec "sheet" could be a book of 200 pages. Other than that I don't have a ton of experience, especially with high end stuff, but despite that I have felt quite a big jump both changing cables and with burn in. For those that negate the effect asking why the change is always positive, I'll answer: it doesn't. I was deluded by a silver cable, and I have a pair of earphones (planar magnetic) that I preferred how they were before the burn in.
@@karellen00 My improvement from copper to silver plated copper was more transparency. My difference between silver plated copper and pure silver was precise imagery, smoothness and no shrill in the highs. This sound was proven when I added a silver power cord in my power speaker. I had no negative effects that I had before. There was no shred of doubt upon the improvement it made.
I think false Snake Oil claims are easy to validate or invalidate by simply listening to different systems. What I find people not discussing enough or clearly enough, IMHO, is where the line of diminishing returns stands and can a system benefit from an upgrade taking into account the weakest link in the chain (it can be a great weakest link).
Each element of a HIfi system will have its own line, and things change dramatically between types of employed technology. For example GanFET, when done correctly, appear to be much better that traditional mosfets (except for VFET IMO). That technology can compete with extreme high-end solid state amps at a fraction of the price.
Back when I was 15 + everything was 20 to 22 Khz and 8 / 16 Ohm and higher, 4 Ohm and lower was very hard to find, only in the East where almost nobody had access to it, and it wasn't cheap either I remember my first dual with 2 speakers and my 2nd was a Marants tower with radio, tape and record player with 4 speakers on a chrome base with 5 feet lol;l You can judge speakers on their construction and especially the placement of the 3-way system drivers, but that is not the right taste of sound for everyone, e.g. heavy metal or classical music
Unfortunately no matter what you say naysayers are stuck in their bubbles and will never believe anyone that has gone the extra mile and experimented with different gear etc etc. If you ask them if they have tried higher end cables etc they will divert the conversation most of the time.
this is a very common trait of Objective audiophiles who only chase the distortion numbers. Have you noticed most if not all youtube objective reviewers never express how a speaker or component sounds like? rather their subjective view is it has a dip in the mid etc? does believe not acoustic panels are required because Dr Toole said so. only need to listen to one speaker to evaluate how a speaker is.
Ever noticed how subjective only audiophiles never conduct any blind listening tests and refuse to accept they are human like everyone else and as a result are very heavily affected by bias and placebo? Pick out your special cables in a blind listening test repeatedly and prove objectivists and engineers wrong. If what you hear is real it should be very easy to do. You think you hear these differences in cables? Prove it. Explain why a null tester doesn’t highlight differences in the signal if differences are there. Do you even know what a null tester is? Magic and pixie dust isn’t how electricity works.
I frooze a CD for a day or 2 and I got better sound from it and my favourite thing to do is to use the Densen De Magic CD (and Nordost's CD) and DVD (for multichannel).
All of this is true Passion for Sound UA-cam channel just did a video on hearing in humans based on a scientific study Amir and the ASR acolytes hate tubes and R2R because of the SINAD worship Saw a TV with and without a power conditioner and the picture quality was way better on the power conditioner and seeing is believing … it was beyond dispute but if you had clean power to begin with it may not have made any difference or not If you have the money it is worth it if you don’t spend the milk money
When I desing an amplifier, I made it so the roll off start at 50kH and at 5H. So the stereo imaging is better. Many companies advertise the same numbers but the roll off begin at 15kH and 15H. I use digital sources. And people aren't able to tell. Digital has better spec than analog sources. 14:57 You won't have a document because unless you use telephon wires for your speakers and the cheapest rca wires in the world for connection, the difference is psychological. No serious company will put data that doesn't exist. That's why I don't particularly listen to audiophile mumbo jumbo. When you pay obscene amount of money for something like cables, of course you will "hear" a difference even if there's none. Comparing blood tests with cables is absurd. Test are done to extract the data. The results don't change because the analyst feel like it or work with a new jacket that morning . With accurate testing yes you can absolutely say that. I desing electronic system of all kind for probably longer than many people have been alive. Psychological factor is and always have been irrelevant. Measurable and quatifiable data is all that matter. Any components that need a burn in time period isn't good. It's defective. There's a huge psychological factor all of this. English isn't my language. 16:50
I did not compare blood test with cables. I said that how we analyze things, anything, for example a blood sample, or a cable, or any type of compound, can give results only based on what you ASK. Meaning that the tests we do on cables are always voltage oriented, and on specific aspects. We are not asking all the correct questions to understand their behavior.
That's very true, and manufacturers play a lot with that sometimes asking you to run the component for 100 or more hours. But sometimes there's undoubtedly a certain difference. At least for mechanical equipment, like headphones or speakers that have stuff that flexes and that need time to break in. I'm not 100% sure for electronics and especially cables where I can't imagine what it would change, but having not tried I can't even say it's snake oil. Oh, tubes excluded: sometimes especially new old stuff need some time to get rid of oxidation and stuff like that.
@@anadialog Partly agreed. Not the main issue. Just 4th on the scale...or 10th. Sorry, Guido, you are worrying too much of the wiring. Protocols are the main importance.
What's amazing is that so many people already spent some $$$$ on their HiFi systems, but decline to even try out some $$ or maybe $$$ "snake oil" items. Instead they claim that the "snake oil" item couldn't possibly have an influence on sound. How smart is that?
ASR has alot of cult followers. Most are on a tight budget and filled with loudy spoken people hidden behind a keyboard. Anything to reduce to spending and to argue not to spend money is ideal. ASR memebers constant arguing with each other as themselves cant get it right. This just a hobby have fun & enjoy
I agree, but sometimes you have to draw a line. It doesn't matter if I even would have 100K$ worth of audio gear, I would never spend 1000$ on an audiophile Ethernet cable. But I still agree that part of the hobby is experimentation, and especially if the item is not hugely expensive you should at least try the stuff before telling your story
@@medonk12rs Even if you are 100% sure it's snake oil? It's a digital cable, it either works or not, if the signal passes it gets redigitalized, otherwise it would stop working. Also it's network stuff, the signal is moved to a buffer where eventual packets that got lost are retransmitted. But most importantly, even if it worked, what's the point of getting a good quality cable for just the last meter if you keep the crappy one you have inside your walls?
@@medonk12rs depends on your system. if you have a revealing system cables can make a difference. how i see it many objective audiophiles are low-budget-oriented and in general not revealing. Therefore any excuse not to experient (spend money).
@anadialog Amstrad was a British Consumer Electronics company. In the 1970's they were at the forefront of low priced Hifi and Car Stereo Cassette technologies. Look it up, it's been documented. Even Techmoan did a video talking about Amstrad's so called "hifi" audio systems
@@anadialog Amstrad was a British Consumer Electronics company. In the 1970's they were at the forefront of lower-priced hifi and Car Stereo Cassette technologies. Look it up, It's been documented. Techmoan even did a video talking about Amstrad's so called "lower-priced hifi" audio systems.
Expecting that high resolution digital processing will result in better perception of music is like to expect that steak will be tastier because was cooked on more modern grill.
Not at all. The same live session, if recorded in high res will have more information. That extra info helps in certain types of music, like jazz and classical. High-res Beyoncé is rather useless.
You lost me at item 3 ("Cables"). This truly IS snake oil. For speaker cables of reasonable length in a reasonable room, there is no difference between zipcord and all the big fat "oxygen free" nonsense. I'm a EE, and I can tell you that if you can't measure whatever it is you're talking about then it isn't real when it comes to cables. The transmission of power from an amp to a speaker at audio frequencies is just not complicated. Similarly, if you have a decent amplifier with a decent power supply then there is literally NOTHING you can do to the power being delivered to the amp that will cause ANY measurable effect. Fuses? Really? TOTAL SNAKE OIL Any electronic component in the signal chain that changes after being used ("burn-in") is BROKEN. It is clear that this presenter has no understanding of what electronics actually do. This is all snake oil.
@@Habitual_Liar You miss my point. I've been listening to great audio for decades. I use Monster Cables that I bought an eternity ago because they come with banana plugs that are easy to attach to my speakers (MagnaPlanars). Cables don't matter. If you really want overkill, twist together the ends of two or three parallel zipcord conductors for each side of each speaker run. There is NO magic in speaker cables -- and NO difference (other than physical convenience) between them.
@@thomasstambaugh5181 I’ll have to disagree. I have heard very noticeable differences with cables. Not always better but different. Audio Research would also agree. From the Audio Research Ref 150SE manual Important Use the best available speaker wires and interconnects. Audio Research cannot emphasize this enough. As better components and systems are developed, it becomes increasingly important to avoid the limitations of inferior system interconnections.
What electrical/electronics qualifications do you have? How much experience do you have with sophisticated test equipment? What do you know about measuring AC voltage and viewing it on a scope? How about null testers? Anyone who disregards measurements and also disregards bias and placebo is nothing more than an empty vessel. Opinion and biased perception are not facts. Are you confident you could audibly identify a fuse swap without knowing it’s been swapped? How is a power cord the first 3 feet of cable? Your equipment is consuming electricity not generating it. No audio signal is carried by a fuse or a power cord the PSU in the equipment filters all of the crap out before the audio circuits unless you’ve got really terrible gear. No understanding of electricity or electronics whatsoever and that is clearly demonstrated here. As well as no understanding of how fallible we are as humans and how very easily our mind plays tricks on us. We have to remove all forms of bias and carry out controlled level matched listening tests to subjectively evaluate anything and any reported noticeable changes should be able to be repeatably identified. My system can change from one day to the next, but it isn’t the system it’s me.
The technical and subjective must be considered two DIFFERENT things, since for over 60 years the best audio reviewers of all time have been telling us that measurements rarely give even a clue as to how something actually sounds. It rarely coincides. Let's not PRETEND that measurements are more important than our perception. There's not one speaker or electronics company on the planet worth its salt, that prioritizes measurements over listening tests. If it measures great but doesn't sound good; it never goes out the factory door. No one out there should forget to realize that there is a lot of difference between the way something measures and how it actually sounds. If our meaauring tells us one thing and our ears tell us another, as is generally the case, then we have a ling way to go in understanding, integrating and correlating what measurements say and what ACTUAL human perception says. These "measurement gurus" have a shaky foundation. Their arguments are based on the wrong premise and foundation: that measurements jibe with what equipment actually sounds like. Starting with a wrong premise predictably leads to wrong results, conclusions and beliefs. Don't let measurement gurus force their wrong beliefs on you. Experimenting and listening for yourself is always way smarter.
@sidesup8286 equipment shouldn’t sound like anything. Do you not understand that? My perception is different to yours and yours is different to someone else. I’ve seen subjective reviews by different people that contradict one another. So where is the actual quantifiable data when subjectively assessing something? Subjective bias and placebo are far stronger than you realise or care to admit.
Wutz r u bubblin' noobs..my experience r vinyl, tapes or cassette or even CDs r just nostalgic memories..we r now digital all the way..u can Still lives in ur analogue..gd luck noobs..Peace!
![ANA[DIA]LOG](http://yt3.ggpht.com/50CpmGNilS8aoMlarZVhI_GxRDoZdbj4ZgwCMZXg-Rq2PrEvCytlE6RVyLUrNY-rwE_sAlZ1Zw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
Music sounds better with beer. I have tried this for the past two days😅
No question.
True! 😂
Bourbon usually opens up the soundstage. Any bottle $80 or above guarantee’s it. 😉
yes - whisky is also nice
It just makes me sleepy.... Can't drink....
Just a small point": we can perceive frequencies, that we can't(physically) hear.
We need to notice thet even ultra frequency is existing it may be produced by instrument at so low level that it is completly overhelmed by those which we fully perceive and which are produced in its main acoustic range charcteristic for it's material and shape. .
. In graphs of analyzers we see top sopranos represented by colors and shape that they exist but no many people look at scale - if they exist at say 40 db below say zero level compare to 5 khz (how much is in reality evel of 20kHz harmonic for hit hat? ?) Listening to original instrument it should be less noticeable than awerage noise level in room.
Even for percussion instruments the power of produced top harmonics is just small particle of those below 10kHz - add to it 10 db less hearing sensitivity and it shows that it is may be as important as mosquito fly during loud music.
Yet the majority of audiophiles have limited hearing and equipment that cannot play these frequencies, with recordings not containing these frequencies, with three foot cables than cannot produce a hearable perceived skin effect difference even by a bat. Most Audio systems still cannot create a perceivable difference in an E flat an F bass note, despite one basically being like a looser string, rounder with more oomph.
Despite everything we believe about human hearing and audiophiles having better ears than Superman mated with a bat, audiophiles and all over music lovers sit between two MDF cheap cabinets with vibrating speakers competely unlike an actual instrument trying to convey a compete band in an untreated room with average electronics and talk about chocolate midbands and velvet highs.
And due to how weak the human mind is, we will be tricked by two vibrating cones into perceiving a sound stage, instruments and performers. We are quite litteraly duped into imagining what we hear, so much is phsycoacoustic and placebo, to the point even seeing something can make us imagine it sounds a particular way, in teh early years many thought thin pure silver interconnects sounded, you guessed it, thin and detailed, and fatter OFC copper cables sounded more rounded and bass heavy, nothing to do with measured sound, it was looks, because in many cases if you put a thin cable into a massive looking cable, they heard a different sound.
There is also blind tests showing audiophiles unable to notice a coat hanger, or even a £150 Alesis budget power amp, or a chair vs a hifi rack, in system tests.
Hey Ana(dia)log, I am your German counterpart. I made a video a few month ago explaining why "audiophile fuses" are snakeoil. I explained how amplifiers power supplies and rectifying works etc. After the video was released a hifi dealer contacted me (or wrote a comment) and said like: "yes alright I understand your technical explanation, but have you yourself ever tested such a fuse, not by measuring but by listening to it?" Well I never did so he offered to send me 2 fuses for my amp and phono-amp to test it myself. So I tested it and it was very easily audible. Then in a live stream I poke about it that I was wrong, that it makes no sense from a technical perspective but you can still very easily hear it.
Pf course some of my subscribers were very angry, some even ended the subscription and some made fun of me. What did I learn from it? Always be careful what you call snakeoil. There are some things we can't explain but we can still hear it. Our ears don't have a physics phd.
„easily audible“ … but not in a blind test 👌
@@user-jp3vl5jx1j Or demonstrable in measurements
Potentially can Totaly agree with you, believe you, but have you pay attention on ratings on that fuses? Are they with markings "F", "M" or "T"? What markings if original are? So, counterpart, be Germanly precise, please, when speaking in technical terms. Please.
Honestly if someone is open minded and after trying better changes his mind, they will have all my respect and appreciation. It's difficult to change idea, especially for your viewers that didn't have the occasion to test the fuses.
@@colloidalsilverwater15ppm88 yes it was exactly the same fuse, but sonically it should not make a difference if you use a standard fuse or a solid copper cylinder because on many amps you can bull the power plug and they continue playing for 20sec because of the huge capacitors behind the rectifier.
Oh and talking about a bind test, the company selling these fuses performed a blind test at the last high end exhibition in Munich, Germany and almost everybody was able to spot the difference. (I was not present but I was told by some people that they did and that it worked)
100% Guido. Totally aligned here. I already know you’re unfortunately going to get some argumentative comments calling BS, but those are people without experience or understanding. The first to cry snake oil is people who only go by specs or measurements. Both are of course are very useful and important, especially in designing gear, but only to a point. Listening is the true test.
I’ve used this quote before, but it still rings true. It goes something like, “We’re able to hear most we are able to measure, but we can’t necessarily measure everything we’re able to hear” - Herb Reichert
Thanks, Guido! Appreciate you and your vids.
Great quote!!
Oh boy Gwedo, you opened up The Can!
🙈
I have to say this is an excellent and informative video, and it’s very well presented, hence I’m happy to subscribe to this channel and, as a result, unsubscribe from a one or two - possibly three - other UA-cam hifi channels which weren’t answering my many and varied hifi questions. I look forward to going through your past videos as I’m sure I’ll pick up a lot of good tips and general information/knowledge. Nice one😊
Welcome aboard and…thank you so much for your trust!
Hey Guido, another great video and I totally agree. You allways have to listen to devices and a certain brand is no garantie that your ears like it. What sounds good to ones ears is good and burning in is the most important factor. Had this experience with a phono preamp. Forgot to turn it off over night when it was new and after listening again, it sounded better than before. Same with old tapedecks. The components do get revitalized when getting used again.
If you design an audio amplifier with a frequency response up to 20kHz, then effectively you create a “filter” that rolls of the frequencies above 20kHz. Depending on your design, the frequency response curve will be flat up to 20kHz (within the specified tolerance). However also depending on your design, there will be more or less phase shifts in the audible spectrum around that filter point. If you design an audio that amplifier put to let’s say 40 or 60 kHz, then these phase shifts will also start at a higher (inaudible) frequency. These phase shifts are audible since our perception of a stereo image are bases on phase shifts that we hear when the sound waves enter our ears.
As someone who mainly restores cassette decks, I can only confirm that a 'burn-in' phase is unavoidable for the device. This applies to both the mechanical and the electronic components. The temperature development alone in a closed device changes the interaction of all components considerably. The same naturally applies to new devices.
Definetly true. I restore decks, too and know those facts.
Almost every snake oil part has increased my satisfaction every time.
I’ve noticed some snake oil items that I’ve removed because it was a negative effect. Like an EQ component was adding audible distortion.
I’ve tried high end copper, silver plated copper and silver. I’ve found my nirvana with silver. I currently use my Mac Mini digital equalizer which has more band adjustments.
There could be a placebo effect too! But it's not only a matter of measurable performance, sometimes the feel of having something cool and special is enjoyable too
@
I trust my ears
Hi Guido, There are some really worthwhile points you have made in this video.
1. Sub frequencies I would argue are even more important than high frequency.
In my system, as you know, I have Wilson Alexia loudspeakers. I also have a Wilson Watchdog subwoofer. I don't necessarily use the subwoofer to lower the frequency response of my main speakers a comfortably produced bass down to 20 Hz, but I used the subwoofer to correct room modes in sub frequencies, which are usually the area, we have the biggest problems in most listening rooms.
I agree with you that extending the frequency range of our audio equipment by using super tweeters and subwoofers does enhance the audible range of our hearing.
2. Agree with you in relation to specifications of equipment it's funny that my Vitus monoblock amplifiers state in their specs their rated power output is and I quote "more than enough."😂
I love this because essentially it's just taking the piss out of specifications.They mean nothing in my opinion as you rightly say it's all about how it sounds and how a particular piece of equipment sinks in your audio.
3. I know my friend you've done a lot of work on cables as have I. You make great points about insulation dielectric properties it really is super important in a good cable. Obviously, conductor materials are equally as important as connectors, where resistance is often at its highest. I also agree with you around the pricing of cables. Some of them are absolutely ludicrous, and there should be a rough equation around spending 10 to 15% of your entire Hi-Fi budget on cabling. I find that's a pretty good rule of thumb, but of course, there are always exceptions.
4. Cleaning up power is super important I use a PLiXiR3000 balanced power conditioner for all of my components and I have 3 20amp dedicated lines 2 for my monoblock amplifiers with the third dedicated line that runs the power conditioner very important stuff in high-end audio equipment. I always say the higher the resolution, the more you have to pay attention to the 1 and 2%ers.
5. Burn in is definitely something, especially in anything mechanical like subwoofers or speakers. The differences are very audible. In solid state electrical components not as obvious, but still there is an overall improvement with time.
I've essentially agreed with everything you've said in this video Guido but just expanded a little bit in relation to my 35 years experience in this crazy hobby. Like you, I wish some of this stuff didn't make as much of a difference as I've heard it make. It would make life and my bank balance look a whole lot better.🎧👍👌
Peter Qvortrup is the ultimate advocate of listening to the differences that even top quality components make in Audio Note equippment. They choose components that contribute the best combination of qualities to the sound. That is what makes Audionote a compelling proposition.
I am still very happy with my SKW speaker cables you recommended a few years ago. I have tried several other more expensive cables since and I have returned them all.
Why does my Sugden Class A amp need about an hour of warm-up before it does sound right? Running cold it does have less body thinner highs. Any techninal explanation?
It's because the electronic components (transistors) need settling time before they are working properly my Denon poa6600a have the same issue they will sound a bit rough mostly in the low end when they are cold
Kind of stupid but you can compare it with an old car wich needs shoke when cold and needs to warm up before running smoothly
Class A is the purest for overall sound, but it wastes a LOT of energy as heat
because the output devices are fully "on" all the time.
And because of that, the whole amplifier has to warm up before it reaches thermal stability,
which takes at least an hour. Some may need more time than that.
The alternative is leaving it on 24/7, which you will notice on your energy bill.
A typical solid-state class A/B amplifier, on the other hand, reaches thermal stability in a matter of a few minutes.
How much I liked this video!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Regarding Hi res recordings and reproduction:
1. Analog systems that are specified "only" 20KHz (Main bottle neck is the speakers) are typically capable of reaching the 40Khz not flat but at - 6 dB lower due to "normal Roll Off" of 6 dB per octave. Same goes for microphones.
2. Digital "CD quality" recordings completely Block these frequencies using means of a "Brick wall filter" set to ~21Khz which greatly affect the audible frequencies in terms of phase distortion.
3. We cannot hear the presence of a constant sine wave of above 12Khz (20Khz) i.e. 30Khz. However we do hear envelope modulation of audio energy at ranges 20Khz to 40KHz (and Above) if this envelope modulates at audible frequencies (I.e. 1 Khz). An impulse of sound (Drum Stick hitting a cymbal) produces real life energy which can reach the 100KHz area. if limited to 48Khz, you get half the energy in reproduction. If limited to 21Khz you get 25% of the actual energy (Dynamics) of that sound. When a low level audible range harmonics are extended to the 20KHz 40KHz envelope band , it's presence and Definition (audio resolution) is doubled. All the above is conditioned of course to being first captured by the recordings means and reproduction chain.
4. I have a professional and even commercial experience in 1000's of old LP conversion to digital. I can tell you that most LP's contains musical information that reaches up to the 40Khz area. many have more that that. The Maximum I was able to measure reached the 60Khz area.
5. Of Course, the presence of a "HiRes" data File by itself is not a guaranty to the presence of HiRes audible information as we all know is very easy to convert low res audio files into hi res files format. I measure the HiRes Files of streaming services, mainly Tidal, and find differences between HiRes Files presented there. Some are truly hires, some are low res converted to Hires. BTW: I found that MQA format behavior (Now Abended by Tidal) is an artificially generated HiRss Content at 20Khz to 40Khx of a 44.0Khz origin music.
6. In a Subjective way of description, the Hires musical content adds a more "life like Metal" Feeling to guitar Strings, Cymbals, Brass, The Lack of that range bring the feeling of that sound more to the "Nylon Type" behavior
Regarding Specs:
Specs never tells how good is the system, Only How Bad (of some times how limited) is your system.
In the 70s, a GRUNDING FM portable device sounded great and very enjoyable comparing to it's Japanese rivals. FM live music programs sounds so good even though FM reproduction is limited to 16Khz.
There is a difference between enjoyable and faithful. The linearity of a Reproduction system is defined 1st by by the specs. I always preferred an analog amplifier with 100Khz FR. The 0.0001% distortion is not a guaranty for a faithful performance than 0.1% as it can easy being achieved by an overdone feedback loop gain which create an unpleasant musical experience. I am using my same reproduction system also as a Remastering system and there for requires the system to be accurate and enjoyable at same time so for example a tube system do not meet this requirement (At list not in my $$$ budget level) .
Regarding Cables:
1. The Affect of Cable on a system performance is depends on System component sensitivity to cable, mainly by output and load impedance sensitivity. A 4 ohm Speaker will be double more sensitive to a 8Ohm speaker.
A 1 meter cable will be 3 times better than a 3 meter cable of same type.
A tube amplifier will be 10 time sensitive to a Load (including the cables) that a transistor amplifier.
A Transistor amplifier with to High feedback loop will be more sensitive to load than a proper designed transistor amplifier.
A tube amplifier input will be ore sensitive to inter connect affect than a transistor amplifier.
A Higher sensitivity speaker will be an easier load to any amplimer comparing to a lower sensitivity speaker.
A well designed power supply and well designed to RF immunity Amplifier and other system components will be les affected by a power cables than sensitive component.
A 2 Meter Listening position will be 4 time easier for the system reproduction than a 4 meters listening position based system.
So it is a matter of SPECS and knowledge to choose the right component and to do a proper match between system components where some systems can be using a "simple" caballing and other which are more sensitive requires a much better caballing. At any case you would need to have a very high definition system and listening room inorder to be able to experience the differences.
Regarding Power:
Unless you are using a Class A amplifier, the current drawn for your speaker is translated to a current drawn from the AC power. AS if you have a 1 meter speaker cable and 10 meters of Power cable you need a very good power cable.
Regarding shielding the power cable: Similar but not the same same as shielding of the Speaker cable. Shielding the Speaker cable is a disaster in terms of capacitance load for the high frequencies. However, The Current drawn from AC power is in the 100Hz area. The Amplifier handles the high frequency demand using internal capacity storage.
Regarding low power deices (Pre amp, DACs Atc): No problem of using a shielded cable. The Shielded cable (including for Power Amp) is needed (if needed) to protect EMI sensitive audio components which mean a not best designed products or in other words: to cover a poorly designed component of the system.
In Generally it is better to have a system built from quiet and not sensitive components rather than to try fix the problem with shielding and power conditioning. Of Course, filtering the mains power input is always good to have.
Regarding Burn in:
If I Buy a new Shoe, I need to give it some time till it optimize its performance so for speakers for sure there is a period till it gets to have a stabilized performance..
If I buy A Smart phone, I do not need to burn in the device so for a DAC? I am not sure I will need a burn in time. For an analogue Transistor Amplifier? I am not usre. For A Tube Amplifier: Definitely. for a Phono Cartridge: Definitely.
In Hifi, if I set a new gear component, in most cases time the "burn in" needed is for me to get used to the new sound, regardless if the component really needs a burn in period or not.
I thank you very much for you interesting videos and items you bring for discussions.
Outstanding dissection of topic. Totally agree regarding losing dynamic because of cutting 21 KHz or 48 or 100. And other...bravo maestro
Thank you very much adding technical info to my overview! The only aspect I didn’t touch is CD digital limits (I did in other videos).
Congratulations on another very informative video…..and original! You must be the only one in your area who’s talking about snake oil! Lol😂
When I was younger in my teens and early twenties I would purchase components based on specifications. I learned very quickly after selling one of the best sounding systems I ever owned that I should just trust my ears. Now in my mid sixties and with failing hearing I’ve found that very good quality hearing aids can improve my listening experience. So now I can again only trust what I can hear.
I’ve been into Audio components since the 90s, don’t call myself an audiophile though as I consider that an illness. I would say that the only difference I’ve heard with cables RCA and speakers is Pure Silver core vs Copper. Absolutely no denying the fact they sound different because one ‘slightly’ distorts the signal and the other is the clearer path. There is no cable better than another only personal preference. I am a silver lover
Totally agree with your video! 👍🏻
the best compenent in your audio stereo system are your ears
Very good video - agree with all. High Freq is about feeling. might not hear but can feel
I didn't know you were italian! Do you live in Italy or abroad?
Firenze!
Brave, to be honest. I bought a PS Audio Power Plant (to protect my vintage equipment from high voltage (250v+ often in summer)) and i didn't expect it to sound better. It really did.. So I built my own power cables (thanks for the videos) and that did more than I expected too.. For cables. If your system can't resolve the subtleties these cables bring, there's no point. Perhaps it depends on age of equipment, but interconnects? Surely. Good UTP (network cables) work fine for speakers up to 750 euros a pair in my experience. Again, from your videos i decided to try speaker cable. Oh right, that did a lot...
Since then (and lots of experimentation on lots of Systems with lots of people), i try first.
Then again, if anyone doesn't believe it, don't do any of it. It WILL save you money.
Well sort of, because now your equipment has to compensate for sub par elements in the signal chain, meaning you'll probably need to buy more expensive speakers and amps.
I still see it happen regularly..
Thanks for your input and for your channel support!
Something that I have been verifying with my ears over the past few weeks is that my speakers sound so much better directly connected to my terminals with bare wire instead of the banana plugs I had. Really big difference IMO with my smsl sa300 connected to ADS L780 on my desktop.
I will be doing this on my L980s in the big room soon.
I know that GR Danny says that tube connections are the best so bare wire has to be right there also with surface area connection but I was losing alot of connection with banana plugs not compressing and touching the whole sidewall inside of the terminal.
Anyway, that's my "snake-oil" experience....
Thanks for sharing that! Every bit helps in understanding!
Sometimes bottlenecks aren't that bad. Some or many "hi-res" files have a very high level of ultrasonic noise (it's not music) that some tweeters try to reproduce (resonances). I upgrade these files to CD-A quality.
My favorite is the wiring in speaker crossovers. Most of the time it looks nothing like what you fools pay for in your overpriced speaker cables.
Exactly they forget that the internal wiring and soldered links within equipment are much lower gauge and far less exotic than the cables they interconnect with. If overpriced cables made any difference the internals in the gear would be a bottle neck anyway, but they don’t think of that.
Very Rational Video... Thanks
As a bona-fide audiophile, I wouldn't think of using pre-mixed snake oil. I raise my own audiophile-grade snakes in the back yard and use only the best ones to make oil. What a difference!
Beware of the recent increase in snake rustling
Actually, the left subwoofer seems to have developed a rattling noise that is driving me nuts!
@@6StringPassion. Should have opted for pure virgin python oil - very smooth and powerful results
Agree with most of the points. What is missing to me is the power of suggestion. Is not enough, in my opinion, saying: "I ear differences, hence there are differences". I've experimented that and, even in this field, there are tons of studies. Buone feste Guido!
And in fact, since it can’t by definition be objective since I don’t have scientific proof, I clearly stated IN MY OPINION. I would never claim I hear stuff then it’s real. After all I am a scientist in my real job.
I think some of the snake oil is placebo effect. If you think it's going to sound better, it is.
Placebo is overrated. Placebo is in the middle ground, in the gray field of HIfi. When something becomes much better or much worse, black and white, then it is true. When you think that it seems a little better (or worse) then you may be experiencing placebo.
Excellent!!!
Great video, thanks I agree! 👌
From my experience speakers that have an ultrasonic high frequency responce can often sound awefull bad , particularly when excited with a C.D. . Some one once said "what you can't hear affects what you can hear " I'd agree , It makes what you can hear sound awefull BAD . Supersonics are for the Bat's and your Dog . Music is Harmonious , and all about the Sonics and the achoustics . Speakers that can manage around 13 to 15 Khz should sound good with C.D. and L.P. If the tweeter is a paper cone like the Bass / mid , results should be fine. That's what works for me .
I enjoyed your "sprezzatura" in this video.
Ahah!😆
even if burn in is true, it does not necessarily mean an improvement occurs. Sound could actually get worse, right? i'm guessing any method that tries to prove that burn-in is probably flawed. sometimes people tend to underestimate the placebo effect.
Yes it’s funny how burn in always seems to be an improvement, never worse and then after a magic number of hours changes suddenly stop rather than continuing and ending up with an ever changing or degrading sound.
They all deny placebo because their golden ears are above such human fallibility.
Yes, there are frequencies beyond what people can audibly detect (even if they might be able to feel the vibrations of subsonic sounds). There are also frequencies beyond the range of studio recording equipment (sometimes by design) -- or frequencies that are limited or compressed so that (for example) they won't cause the cartridge stylus to jump out of the groove on a pressed LP. (There was a Beatles track that had to be withdrawn and remastered for that reason -- but I forget which song it was.) Many of my vintage '60s and '70s amps have high-pass and low-pass filter switches on them, limiting frequencies above or below certain levels that might be more than your ears or your equipment or your room can comfortably handle at certain volumes, depending on the recorded music you're listening to (acoustic 1950s Blue Note jazz? industrial metal? EDM? a string quartet? a Mahler symphony?). The question is: With your reproduction gear, in the sonic environment of your listening room, do you like the way the music sounds?
Hi Guido.
Great video. Since we have talked about this for years, I'm not gonna write a novel about how much we agree - You already know. A couple of things I would like to point out though is that microphones aren't so much a limit as you seem to think. Think of measuring gear where the microphones go both very high and very low. Mic's are capable of more than most people think after being mislead by specs etc. And for instance some records (especially classical music) do contain frequencies up to 35 khz which can be played back with good pick ups and easily measured. We do have gear which can record and playback high frequencies. The 20-20khz phrase was pulled out of some idiot's ass back in the day to make things simpler and easier on themselves, but it has never had a place in the real world. And when it comes to cables I guess we have to live with the ridicule from Flat Earther's till we get measuring gear as precise and sensitive as our ears, because the difference is there and of course it will become possible to measure it at some point.
Remember that people thought that black holes were silent till NASA proved them wrong?
I hope you have had a really nice Christmas, and will have a Happy New Year.
All the best from Denmark.
Good answer I totally agree.
We can’t see air yet we breathe it
We can’t see radio waves yet we can hear the radio
Hi Guido, I agree audio cables should be good quality & inexpensive but you failed to mention equipment connectors. I just took delivery of used equipment & job one was cleaning the connectors (RCA & speaker) with cotton buds & pure alcohol. The junk on the cotton buds was horrible. As an EE I disagree on expensive power cables but, for safety, I recommend a whole house surge protector. I use ferrite common-mode chokes on AC & all DC power leads (especially switch-mode power supplies) to reduce RF noise entering your system. HTH. Cheers!
I did mention connectors of all types, not hygiene but I agree on that! Contacts need to be clean!
May work, but only if its virgin snake oil, cold pressed on a cloudless full moon night by 90 years old master of his craft. Those other el cheapo run of the mill snake oils wont do it....
Merry Christmas..Tubes are magical like angels signing with silver dbs strings in mist ov dam😊
Tube box s2 with telefunken is not suggested it heats smelburn
Ever since digital and SINAD measurements, there is a distinct portion of audiophiles who cannot enjoy music unless they can 'understand' why it works. They are far more concerned with 'why' something works rather than 'if' it works. They are also the kind who insist something cannot perform in the way that others have directly experienced because of numbers they've read on a spec page. They will tell you that you couldn't have had your experience despite their having never shared that experience. These people tend to never find a truly musical sound because they are stuck in the idea that music is 'science' and nothing more. They deserve that situation because of their know-everything arrogance, combined with total ignorance. ASR site is filled with such clowns.
Hi, I have a microphone cable ( cordial 234- red, blue and the shield) with neutrik rca conectors. I know 2 methods to solder it (well just one :) :
1 both red and blue to hot+ and the shield to cold-
2 one from your videos : red to hot+ and blue to cold- with the shield together only at one end. ( I don t know if this method is better than the first point and i want to know this).
Please send me a message when you have time, happy holidays! 🙏
The spec sheet would tell the whole story, but only if it would be complete (impossible) and all the measures done by third party with standardized procedure and equipment (very difficult). If differences can be heard they could be measured, but given all the nuances there can be in audio equipment the spec "sheet" could be a book of 200 pages.
Other than that I don't have a ton of experience, especially with high end stuff, but despite that I have felt quite a big jump both changing cables and with burn in. For those that negate the effect asking why the change is always positive, I'll answer: it doesn't. I was deluded by a silver cable, and I have a pair of earphones (planar magnetic) that I preferred how they were before the burn in.
@@karellen00
My improvement from copper to silver plated copper was more transparency. My difference between silver plated copper and pure silver was precise imagery, smoothness and no shrill in the highs.
This sound was proven when I added a silver power cord in my power speaker. I had no negative effects that I had before. There was no shred of doubt upon the improvement it made.
This all sounds plausible, pun intended.
Elna and Alps Made in china, that is a scam difficult to detect. I truly want to buy a 450 euro potentiometer:)
18600 Hz🙂But I have never been to a Disco.
Good topic................but way too long winded !
I think false Snake Oil claims are easy to validate or invalidate by simply listening to different systems. What I find people not discussing enough or clearly enough, IMHO, is where the line of diminishing returns stands and can a system benefit from an upgrade taking into account the weakest link in the chain (it can be a great weakest link).
Each element of a HIfi system will have its own line, and things change dramatically between types of employed technology. For example GanFET, when done correctly, appear to be much better that traditional mosfets (except for VFET IMO). That technology can compete with extreme high-end solid state amps at a fraction of the price.
Back when I was 15 + everything was 20 to 22 Khz and 8 / 16 Ohm and higher, 4 Ohm and lower was very hard to find, only in the East where almost nobody had access to it, and it wasn't cheap either I remember my first dual with 2 speakers and my 2nd was a Marants tower with radio, tape and record player with 4 speakers on a chrome base with 5 feet lol;l
You can judge speakers on their construction and especially the placement of the 3-way system drivers, but that is not the right taste of sound for everyone, e.g. heavy metal or classical music
Heheheh....
Sure, Dude. Whatever you say...
Unfortunately no matter what you say naysayers are stuck in their bubbles and will never believe anyone that has gone the extra mile and experimented with different gear etc etc. If you ask them if they have tried higher end cables etc they will divert the conversation most of the time.
this is a very common trait of Objective audiophiles who only chase the distortion numbers. Have you noticed most if not all youtube objective reviewers never express how a speaker or component sounds like? rather their subjective view is it has a dip in the mid etc? does believe not acoustic panels are required because Dr Toole said so. only need to listen to one speaker to evaluate how a speaker is.
Ever noticed how subjective only audiophiles never conduct any blind listening tests and refuse to accept they are human like everyone else and as a result are very heavily affected by bias and placebo?
Pick out your special cables in a blind listening test repeatedly and prove objectivists and engineers wrong. If what you hear is real it should be very easy to do. You think you hear these differences in cables? Prove it. Explain why a null tester doesn’t highlight differences in the signal if differences are there. Do you even know what a null tester is?
Magic and pixie dust isn’t how electricity works.
I frooze a CD for a day or 2 and I got better sound from it and my favourite thing to do is to use the Densen De Magic CD (and Nordost's CD) and DVD (for multichannel).
Jesus Christ
All of this is true
Passion for Sound UA-cam channel just did a video on hearing in humans based on a scientific study
Amir and the ASR acolytes hate tubes and R2R because of the SINAD worship
Saw a TV with and without a power conditioner and the picture quality was way better on the power conditioner and seeing is believing … it was beyond dispute but if you had clean power to begin with it may not have made any difference or not
If you have the money it is worth it if you don’t spend the milk money
When I desing an amplifier, I made it so the roll off start at 50kH and at 5H. So the stereo imaging is better. Many companies advertise the same numbers but the roll off begin at 15kH and 15H. I use digital sources. And people aren't able to tell. Digital has better spec than analog sources.
14:57 You won't have a document because unless you use telephon wires for your speakers and the cheapest rca wires in the world for connection, the difference is psychological. No serious company will put data that doesn't exist. That's why I don't particularly listen to audiophile mumbo jumbo. When you pay obscene amount of money for something like cables, of course you will "hear" a difference even if there's none.
Comparing blood tests with cables is absurd. Test are done to extract the data. The results don't change because the analyst feel like it or work with a new jacket that morning .
With accurate testing yes you can absolutely say that. I desing electronic system of all kind for probably longer than many people have been alive. Psychological factor is and always have been irrelevant. Measurable and quatifiable data is all that matter.
Any components that need a burn in time period isn't good. It's defective.
There's a huge psychological factor all of this.
English isn't my language. 16:50
I did not compare blood test with cables. I said that how we analyze things, anything, for example a blood sample, or a cable, or any type of compound, can give results only based on what you ASK. Meaning that the tests we do on cables are always voltage oriented, and on specific aspects. We are not asking all the correct questions to understand their behavior.
Don't forget hifi tax.
A person slowly gets used to a new, maybe a different sound when buying a new hi-fi component... and this is the so-called burn in time.
Agree. That's something specific for humans, but surely not right.
That's very true, and manufacturers play a lot with that sometimes asking you to run the component for 100 or more hours. But sometimes there's undoubtedly a certain difference. At least for mechanical equipment, like headphones or speakers that have stuff that flexes and that need time to break in. I'm not 100% sure for electronics and especially cables where I can't imagine what it would change, but having not tried I can't even say it's snake oil. Oh, tubes excluded: sometimes especially new old stuff need some time to get rid of oxidation and stuff like that.
What changes the most in cables is the insulation, which will always degrade the sound. Burn-in of the dielectrics always helps sonics.
@@anadialog Partly agreed. Not the main issue. Just 4th on the scale...or 10th. Sorry, Guido, you are worrying too much of the wiring. Protocols are the main importance.
What's amazing is that so many people already spent some $$$$ on their HiFi systems, but decline to even try out some $$ or maybe $$$ "snake oil" items. Instead they claim that the "snake oil" item couldn't possibly have an influence on sound.
How smart is that?
ASR has alot of cult followers. Most are on a tight budget and filled with loudy spoken people hidden behind a keyboard. Anything to reduce to spending and to argue not to spend money is ideal. ASR memebers constant arguing with each other as themselves cant get it right. This just a hobby have fun & enjoy
I agree, but sometimes you have to draw a line. It doesn't matter if I even would have 100K$ worth of audio gear, I would never spend 1000$ on an audiophile Ethernet cable. But I still agree that part of the hobby is experimentation, and especially if the item is not hugely expensive you should at least try the stuff before telling your story
@ I would DEFINITELY spend 1% to improve my listening experience. Everything else would not be very sound logic, IMHO.
YMMV
@@medonk12rs Even if you are 100% sure it's snake oil? It's a digital cable, it either works or not, if the signal passes it gets redigitalized, otherwise it would stop working. Also it's network stuff, the signal is moved to a buffer where eventual packets that got lost are retransmitted. But most importantly, even if it worked, what's the point of getting a good quality cable for just the last meter if you keep the crappy one you have inside your walls?
@@medonk12rs depends on your system. if you have a revealing system cables can make a difference. how i see it many objective audiophiles are low-budget-oriented and in general not revealing. Therefore any excuse not to experient (spend money).
I hope it’s not related to baby oil 😂😅🤣
lol, whatever makes you feel better
Peer reviewed? Sadly since 2021 no more than marketing and propaganda 😅😂
Most of the articles in the video description of that video I have mentioned are peer reviewed.
Correction on the era. It actually began in th 70's, and sadly continuing into the future.
Marketing, propaganda and faith.
Amstrad kickstarted this Snake Oil trend. They caused a disruption in the market
I admit that I don’t know who that is…
@anadialog Amstrad was a British Consumer Electronics company. In the 1970's they were at the forefront of low priced Hifi and Car Stereo Cassette technologies. Look it up, it's been documented. Even Techmoan did a video talking about Amstrad's so called "hifi" audio systems
@@anadialog Amstrad was a British Consumer Electronics company. In the 1970's they were at the forefront of lower-priced hifi and Car Stereo Cassette technologies. Look it up, It's been documented. Techmoan even did a video talking about Amstrad's so called "lower-priced hifi" audio systems.
Lol😂
Expecting that high resolution digital processing will result in better perception of music is like to expect that steak will be tastier because was cooked on more modern grill.
Not at all. The same live session, if recorded in high res will have more information. That extra info helps in certain types of music, like jazz and classical. High-res Beyoncé is rather useless.
High-res, as mentioned in the video, is also very useful in tape transfers.
You lost me at item 3 ("Cables"). This truly IS snake oil. For speaker cables of reasonable length in a reasonable room, there is no difference between zipcord and all the big fat "oxygen free" nonsense. I'm a EE, and I can tell you that if you can't measure whatever it is you're talking about then it isn't real when it comes to cables. The transmission of power from an amp to a speaker at audio frequencies is just not complicated. Similarly, if you have a decent amplifier with a decent power supply then there is literally NOTHING you can do to the power being delivered to the amp that will cause ANY measurable effect. Fuses? Really? TOTAL SNAKE OIL Any electronic component in the signal chain that changes after being used ("burn-in") is BROKEN.
It is clear that this presenter has no understanding of what electronics actually do.
This is all snake oil.
Have you tried using cables other than the ones that came with your gear? Please name them along with the associated equipment. Thanks.
@@Habitual_Liar You miss my point. I've been listening to great audio for decades. I use Monster Cables that I bought an eternity ago because they come with banana plugs that are easy to attach to my speakers (MagnaPlanars).
Cables don't matter. If you really want overkill, twist together the ends of two or three parallel zipcord conductors for each side of each speaker run.
There is NO magic in speaker cables -- and NO difference (other than physical convenience) between them.
Plus it doesn’t matter as the cables inside the speakers are usually basic stuff.
@@Habitual_Liar So you are telling me I can`t hear a difference. Go away.
@@thomasstambaugh5181 I’ll have to disagree. I have heard very noticeable differences with cables. Not always better but different. Audio Research would also agree.
From the Audio Research Ref 150SE manual
Important
Use the best available speaker wires and interconnects. Audio Research cannot emphasize this enough. As better components and systems are developed, it becomes increasingly important to avoid the limitations of inferior system interconnections.
What electrical/electronics qualifications do you have? How much experience do you have with sophisticated test equipment? What do you know about measuring AC voltage and viewing it on a scope? How about null testers?
Anyone who disregards measurements and also disregards bias and placebo is nothing more than an empty vessel. Opinion and biased perception are not facts.
Are you confident you could audibly identify a fuse swap without knowing it’s been swapped? How is a power cord the first 3 feet of cable? Your equipment is consuming electricity not generating it. No audio signal is carried by a fuse or a power cord the PSU in the equipment filters all of the crap out before the audio circuits unless you’ve got really terrible gear.
No understanding of electricity or electronics whatsoever and that is clearly demonstrated here. As well as no understanding of how fallible we are as humans and how very easily our mind plays tricks on us. We have to remove all forms of bias and carry out controlled level matched listening tests to subjectively evaluate anything and any reported noticeable changes should be able to be repeatably identified.
My system can change from one day to the next, but it isn’t the system it’s me.
The technical and subjective must be considered two DIFFERENT things, since for over 60 years the best audio reviewers of all time have been telling us that measurements rarely give even a clue as to how something actually sounds. It rarely coincides. Let's not PRETEND that measurements are more important than our perception. There's not one speaker or electronics company on the planet worth its salt, that prioritizes measurements over listening tests. If it measures great but doesn't sound good; it never goes out the factory door. No one out there should forget to realize that there is a lot of difference between the way something measures and how it actually sounds. If our meaauring tells us one thing and our ears tell us another, as is generally the case, then we have a ling way to go in understanding, integrating and correlating what measurements say and what ACTUAL human perception says. These "measurement gurus" have a shaky foundation. Their arguments are based on the wrong premise and foundation: that measurements jibe with what equipment actually sounds like. Starting with a wrong premise predictably leads to wrong results, conclusions and beliefs. Don't let measurement gurus force their wrong beliefs on you. Experimenting and listening for yourself is always way smarter.
@sidesup8286 equipment shouldn’t sound like anything. Do you not understand that?
My perception is different to yours and yours is different to someone else. I’ve seen subjective reviews by different people that contradict one another. So where is the actual quantifiable data when subjectively assessing something?
Subjective bias and placebo are far stronger than you realise or care to admit.
Wutz r u bubblin' noobs..my experience r vinyl, tapes or cassette or even CDs r just nostalgic memories..we r now digital all the way..u can Still lives in ur analogue..gd luck noobs..Peace!
blah blah blah
Great comments there…I like the depth of your analysis… ;-)
Burn in is a myth. My McIntosh Mc 462 has sounded the same since 2020. There’s nothing need for burn in 😂😂😂😂😫😂
99% of the time "burn in" is just our ears getting accustomed to the sound of the new component
It's your hear that become used to a particular device.
They do the "burn in" in factory, that's why some cannot hear a difference at home any more.