Try a Palomar uni with an overhand finish. My own making (as I haven't seen anyone else do it) it's a double double Palomar knot tighten it and throw an overhand knot to crown it. I never break off an bend out hooks or haul up logs if snagged. It's also above 100%
It might be better for some of these knot tests to use a strong bait hook. Using a thick metal ring won’t allow a knot like clinch knot to hold the tag end as the knot pulls away from the ring. This is why a uni knot is better for tying to split rings because the knot is around the line. Thanks for doing these.
Exactly. I agree 100%. I do a lot of testing on my automated Chatillon TCD 200 machine. It pulls the knot at a fixed speed automatically. My tests show that knots tied on rings behave completely different than knots tied on hooks. One major difference you can see is that if you tie on a big ring, it tends to form a teardrop shape as you pull. It loads the knot up in a different direction. When the knot is tied to a hook, the teardrop shape will not happen, so the knot cinches down on itself. Knots like the Trilene knot that is clearly a 100% knot if tied properly, would not be as strong then tied to a ring because it depends on the tag end being cinched right up to the eyehook. With the teardrop, the tag end does not take up some of the load and the line tightens up on the coils around the main end. Most of the failure is caused by the coils wrapping around the main line tightening up and breaking the line. With the tag end, the coils does not form a death grip around the main line and helps take up the load. I tested 50-100 of the Trilene knots and most break but leaves the knot perfectly in place. I only do the Trilene knots for most of my fishing after running a lot of tests.
Its also one of the reason why the knot tests you see in the Fred Hall (or called Bart Hall) shows are also very flawed. They use a very large ring in that tests. The winners are usually the ones that break well above the line strength and the failure is not at the knot. It tells you the results are actually based on which part of the line you get from the spool because microscopic flaws would mean the difference between the #1 or the #3 person on the top list. Basically it is not longer your knot skill but the luck of the draw when the take line from the spool.
IMHO where people mess up with the Palomar on fluoro is that it is strong on a steady pull. It is weak on a slack shock. Knot testing does not account for that. I would rather see the knots tied to a swivel or split ring instead of that fat ring. Different stress on the knot.
Yeah it's kinda hard to beat a knot that is basically 100 percent strength I think he should of used an anchor with a smaller diameter to more fairly test them
I hear that about shock or slack shock on leaders often and it makes me wonder. These lines and leaders are secured to reels through guides generally on 5’ to 7’ long flexible rods. One of the main purposes of rods is flexing to reduce shock. Beyond that nearly all have drags set on the reels. I am highly skeptical of all this reliance on shock leaders.
Thank you for taking my advice and adding the Fish n Fool knot to your knot test videos. If you get a gap can you please test it on 20lb fluorocarbon as well and drop the stats here? Interested to see how it performs on the fluorocarbon.
This is why I tell new anglers to learn the uni knot. Add and extra loop through the hook eye and it super strong. Also use the “double uni” for an easy line to line leader knot .
Yeah, uni is my go to knot for the reason that it is very versatile. The extra loop was pointed out to me years ago to prevent slippage but I didn't realize it was the strongest.
I just discovered this channel and I am new at fishing. I am looking to define a set of knots for my self. Having professionnely some experience in testing I think the results presentation is not helpful for selecting a knot. You are looking it from the reference of the line strength that you are not testing during your test(variation in the spool, from spools to spool and temperature). Having an increase in line strength with the knots is a new physics... (it's more a variation in the line). I look at your results using one knots at the reference and the variations in % from this knot. This guide me to select the knot and the smallest line for the same pooling force. Thank you for taking the time to test and share the information.
Great video, I have always referred to it as a modified uni knot, and I found it to be the best knot. It's great to see your data backing up my experience.
? Do the results concern you at all that you're tying it to a larger diameter ring than a hook or lure would have?? I wonder if the knots would be pinched and stressed differently on a smaller diameter ring?
Very good test! Thank you! 👍 I also would've liked to have seen the trilene and the double (or improved) trilene knot added to the test after the clinch. I was very glad you included what line you were using because over the years I've found that some knots that work well with certain braids, end up failing on others. Back in the 80's we quickly find that grandpa's old knots had to be "improved" or "doubled" to help hold. Then later in the late 80's - early 90's we found locking the tag end with a knot or lashing kept some from slipping out. For a little while I even remember everyone carrying around superglue to "lock" their knots... I was never a fan of the glue method for many reasons. The funny thing is, I've seen and tried so many different versions of all different knots and with the braid technology of today, I've found that most of us have reverted back to the older knots we started with! 😂 My favorite knots today are palomar, trilene, and sometimes the improved clinch pulled tight with the tag end double back lashed. When I'm joining lines no matter what type or brand I exclusively use the double uni.
I fish saltwater mainly and some old timers told me I should double up on the loop when I do my uni to prevent slippage. They didn't have a name for it either. But I've been using it ever since.
Tyler, i saw Roland Martin tie the double palomar knot but he also doubled feeding the line through the eye of the hook so 4 strands "looped" over the eye making the knot a lot stronger. I don't think that is easy to do that knot when the wind sun is against you. I tie the palomar or uniknot often but this video opened my eyes to use the fishinfools knot as it seems quite easy to tie.
I think there may be a benefit to trying these knots with also a smaller test lb. The smaller diameters should cinch differently and, therefore, break differently.
Buy some Jerry Brown Spliceable Hollow Braided Spectra 60 lb and Daho Threading/Looping/Splicing needles. Then make loop knot and do a beaking pull test. It will blow all knots away on breaking point. Then make wind knot, hollow core braid to leader. It will out preform the fg and pr bobbin knot.
I fish saltwater mainly and knot strength matters especially when you're reeling in a giant bluefish. I learn the modified uni when I first started fishing, an old timer suggested to double loop the braid before tying on the uni to prevent slippage. He didn't have a name for it either but I just started referring to it as the double loop uni, it has been my go to knot because for me the uni is the most versatile knot. I didn't even know it was the strongest.
The best knot is one you can tie consistently correct and can see that it is tied correctly before it lets you know it wasn’t by breaking. The added advantage of a Palomar knot ( at least for me) is that it can be tied just by feel which is a huge benefit when night fishing.
I've been attaching flies (18 to 22) and ultralight spinners to mono using a two-wrap nail-knot tied (with the help of a wood toothpick). I've never seen someone use it for terminal tackle or to attach tippet or leaders... A leader section terminating with a double-overhand, then feed the thinner line thru the loop of the unset double-overhand, a two-wrap nail-knot fixes the thinner leader / tippet to the fatter mono. I can't speak much about it, as I lack the scientific testing gear. This is much better than the clinch and blood knots that I tied for years.
I tie my double improved clinch with the initial passing of the line through the hook eyelet two times usually instead of just once. I have gone through three times before doing my twists when I am flipping or pitching, and on my frog rod knots with braid. If you don't, it just slips. I wonder how the way I tie it would show better results. My dad taught me this knot so it has a lot of sentimental value to me when I go fishing. I've also tied the double palomar before as well. Looks like I'll be using that one from now on.
One thing... when tying a line to a hook it is well-known that hook wire size to line diameter has a significant effect on knot strength. That big eye ring in your test set-up puts some of those knots at a disadvantage that may perform very well with a more realistically sized hook eye. The clinch knot is a perfect example. Had it been tied to a smaller eye as in say, an average-sized hook it would have undoubtedly performed better. Also with that knot, the number of wraps is critical, especially with braid which requires more. It wouldn't surprise me that some of the other knots were affected in the same way. It's probably true for your ex-favorite the Palomar too. Try the test on a hook that you would use for fishing bass for example. Though it was a good idea, this major flaw in your test makes me skeptical of the results
Pls try the Palomar knot (or double Palomar knot) wrapping over the ring twice! (as indicated in the little Power Pro booklet that comes with the lines)
I liked your video as i am just getting into using braid, but to me it was more of a test for the braid because on most of them it didn't at the knot. but I have learned so new knots so thank you.
I use the Trilene Knot for terminal tackle , I snell all of my hooks . Some others I use are the Surgeons knot and loop , I fish salt water and have no problem with them , been doing it for over 40 years.
I'd like to see that double Palomar on mono or fluorocarbon. I always tie the Palomar because it's so easy to tie and from your tests it's relatively strong. The double Palomar is interesting to me
You ahould do a loop knot war vid. I use the Rapala knot for basically everything I throw in all fishing applications. It has only failed on me when i forgot check my loop after catching 15+ bass. Thats the inly downfall of loop knots. The loop takes most of the strain and becomes weak after awhile. Just gotta keep an eye on it or just clip your old loop knot and tie another fresh one on.
I've always wondered why most of the people on You Tube who talk about their knot of choice (not including the people who actually do comparison tests on their knots, quite obviously) say the Palomar is the strongest. I ran my own tests several months back, using Power Pro, and the Palomar broke at only about 70 percent at best, while the improved version of the uni-knot (with two passes through the eye) was stronger than 100 percent of the rated strength every single time. I did another test with mono, where I simply tied an improved clinch knot to one end of a length of a length of line, and a Palomar knot to the other end, and pulled from both ends to see which knot would fail. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so the weaker of the two knots will be the one that fails. In about 25 trials, the Palomar knot was the one that broke every time. Then I did a few trials of actually measuring the strength on mono, and the improved clinch knot was always well into the 90-percent range, and the Palomar was far weaker (I don't recall exactly, but I seem to remember that it was never quite as good as 3/4 of the line's rated strength). I don't use an improved uni knot with mono since an improved clinch knot is easier for me and this knot already has far better strength than most others, so I didn't include that in my comparison. Maybe if I ever compared those two knots with mono I'd start using the improved uni-knot for mono too. I did those tests to see if it was worth it to start using the Palomar knot like half the people on UA-cam say we should all be doing, and the answer for me, is "no". By the way, every spool of Power Pro fishing line used to come with a booklet full of recommended knots, and their name for your "fishin' fool" knot was just the "uni knot". That's why for years, I always thought that putting that extra loop through the eye when starting a uni knot was standard procedure. I never even considered trying that knot with just a single pass through the eye. It wasn't until I saw your video that I knew anyone ever tied it with a single loop through the eye, or that there might be a reason for me to start calling my old uni knot the "improved uni knot".
70-percent of a line that's labeled 50-pound is going to be way over the test you'll ever need. That 50 probably breaks over 60-pounds, maybe more depending on the brand.
I always use a double palomar knot for braid and a lot times for flouro and mono..Lately I've used the Double San Diego knot for my flouro leader to my jerk bait or lure. I'll start trying the fish-n-fool knot now. I tie an Alberto knot for my braid main line to my flouro leader with 8 wraps back and forth and 4 loops at the very end.
Always used the improved clinched knot without any issues for braid. Make sure to tighten it while it is wet. Also, don't tie around a large diameter ring, please tie around something realistic like a hook or bait eye. Thanks!
TYLER, I enjoyed the not tying videos but I have practice on the Fishing fool knot and from what I’m finding while you’re fishing and working a lure almost every time my lines get crossed around the eye what am I doing wrong and why is this happening. To me once the lines get crossed it’s game over. I’ve practiced it multiple times at the house to see what’s going on, but even carefully tying the knot and cinching it down as much as possible, when pulling the mainline each direction away from the eye after about four times the lines cross. I love the knot especially it having over 100% breaking strength, but not if it’s gonna keep crossing like that. Help!!!
Lost a $7 chatterbait yesterday when a fish hit it at the bank because the palomar pulled through. Now that was on flouro so I am heading over to watch THAT video. I have to agree that the thickness of the ring probably caused a lot of issues with the clinch knots. I know it is easier to tie on the big ring but this would have been better with a ring diameter that we normally use. Still, I lost total confidence in the Palomar. Twice I have had it slip. So I will try the fishing fool knot. Looks easy enough. Thanks and love your content!!
Not saying you don’t know how to tie the knot correctly but one key factor to the Palomar is that the mainline going to the knot and the tag end coming out of the knot must both go back through the same loop, otherwise all you have done is created a slip knot.
@@BassGangsta you can have the flouro. I’ll stick with their CXX copoly. I’ve caught 4 double digits on it and also many 20 to 40 pound flatheads and bluecat without any failures.
It would be nice if you showed us how to tie the top knot the fishing for night. I’m pretty sure I learned how to tie this knot from a guy fishing in Texas. What a jig. I’m wondering if it’s the same not. It never broke for me.
Would you try something to satisfy my curiosity? You're using that large ring to tie the braids to. Would you test just the top 2 or three knots when tied to a regular hook or swivel? I believe it will change your end data and may even rearrange the order of knot strength.
Looks like I'm switching to a double palomar for my braided, thank you😊. I can't remember much anymore, maybe my head got hit too many times, palomar, clinch and standard and how to tie my boat off to a dock!
The slipping on the clinch with the braid is because the metal ring is so much larger than the line itself. You can’t get it tighten this scenario. If you were tying it off to normal size tackle this would not happen. I have used the clinch since braid has been out and NEVER had it slip.
Considering that the rod and the action of the rod does have affect on the line and its breaking point, unless you’re fishing with a steel pole, you might get a lot more poundage considering the rod will be taking some stress off the line
I've been using a no name knot my grandfather used my whole life and it turns out to be a simpler version of the fish n fool knot. My grandfather's knot breaks half the time and slips half the time so I guess I'll try the fish n fool to see what happens next time I hang up on a log.
For some reason the double SDJ is better in fluro, but the single SDJ seems better in braid. At least in my tests. Seems like the cinch of the DSDJ gives me fits in braid.
While its good for braid - would u rec modified uni knot on fluoro? Been using improved and palomar, but looking to up new knots after some slippage - might to try this out
Another great video! So, for Florcarbon line, is the san diago jam knot better than the fish and fool knot? Or would the double uni knot be better? What's your thoughts?
Improved Clinch probably pulls through because you are using a large diameter rappel ring to tie it to. Wondering what would happen if you tied it to a small diameter wire or hook eye.
I was at bass pro shop and they bad a knot wars matching and they were letting us tie our best knot using izore love XXX 2 lb. Test I had it breaking at 6 .08 lbs we did this 5 times my highest one breaking knot was 6.57 lbs again using 2 lb. Test xxx loved up to its name...... And loved is line and for some reason my phone won't let correct it works erasing everything to get back to it so there you go oh ya I was trying the double Palomar.......a little later I did one with just a regular Palomar broke at 5.82 as I recall....I think the Palomar is a great knot just maybe not the best choice for braid. Mono all day flouro pretty much most of the time and you'll be ok
Am I missing something? What about the Trilene knot? You didn't show all the knot tying; was it one of the ones you did but under a different name? I'll for sure experiment with your new winner there. That was amazing. Great video!
I use an improved clinch knot for literally everything. Braid, monofilament, fluorocarbon, 6 pound test, 150 pound test, I don't care. It's the only knot I use. And I've never had a problem with it.
if you have time do the improved clinch knot again but this time put a knot on the tail end.I was told by an older fishermen that that knot will prevent it from slipping
Maybe try a hybrid knot between the fishin fool and the Palomar. Meaning, pass your doubled over line through the eye twice just like you do with the fishin fool. Then proceed with the double palomar as you had previously. It’s tricky to cinch but I haven’t been able to break it.
I have a concern that the large thickness of the 2 inch diameter ring you are using could give a different result to something which is much closer to the actual diameter of the thickness of the hook. Can you run a couple of tests and see if there’s a difference between that and an actual hook something closer to a hook?
I know the double pitson scored badly. But it hasn’t broken from shock. For me and there isn’t a way to Test shock I’ve been doing fish n fool since this video. But I broke off on a hook set. But idk if it was shock or a fray in my line.
My braid fails for me the most when my lure hook has pierced the line and I do not cut and retie. ( I always say, I’ll retie after next cast, then it fails😂) I have tied the Uni knot 7 wraps on braid and never had it fail. Your mileage may vary!
You can see how quite a few people are recommending that you don't tie these knots onto such a thick ring. When the knot is tied to something so thick, you can see how the two legs of the loop are pulling outward at a steep angle, putting an "expansion" stress on the knot which can tend to cut it open from the inside out. That likely weakens some knots. But you also saw how even a very strong hook came close to failing when you were testing a snell with 50# line. Next time, for your main knots, get a sturdy snap-swivel. You can tied the line to the swivel so your knot tests match conditions in the real world, and you can attach the snap to the hook on your scale. A sturdy snap-swivel will be more than strong enough for this kind of testing. When testing snell knots, turn turn your whole orientation around, end for end. Tie your snell knot to your hook and anchor the hook in your vice (so the hook can't straighten out and fail). Rig up any kind of "friction knot" at the other end, and if that can't be hooked directly to your scale (I can think of ways to make this attachment quite easy but I don't want to write an extra paragraph), use a length of stronger cord (light rope) to pass between the device with the friction knot and the hook on your scale. The orientation of the fishing line makes no difference, nor does its length. By the way, in case you aren't already doing it, each test should be done using a length of line which hasn't already been part of a previous test, just in case the tension at its previous failure point did any damage, or in case that section that you grip in the vice becomes damaged (you probably already thought of this).
I have a question? It looks like the line is braking away, not at the knot nor the knot itself. So isn't that showing that all the knots holds, but the line is weaker or stronger at certain points? Other then the first knot all of them held on.
It appears that you avoid using the double uni but frequently tie other knots in a double version. Is there something about that know that makes it not worth using or testing?
Improved Clinch on braid requires double the turns you would need for normal lines. I've personally never had a Clinch, improved or not, slip like that as long as I'm doing the right number of turns. It's my go-to knot for tying a braided main to a barrel swivel ahead of a leader. Leader always breaks before the main for me.
Fishin fool knot looks to have advantage over palomar for large baits because you don't have to put the lure through a loop. Will have to try with Fireline.
It is tiny compared to where these knot are breaking! We catch marlin using a mere 8-pounds of drag using 30-pound test mono! If you want to find out how much eight pounds of drag is on your bass rod, fill a five gallon bucket with 8-pounds of water and try to lift it with your rod and reel.
I saw a show where JP DeRose was showing what you call the Fishin' Fool knot and he was saying he likes it specifically for braid. I've been tying it ever since but I call it a Double Round Turn Uni Knot because it's a double round turn through the eye and finished off with a Uni Knot. I tie that knot for braid and/or the Trilene knot for mono or fluoro and have never broken off at the knot with either one. Lost MANY on the Palomar. Hate the Palomar.
Interesting test, thank you for the video. However there may be a small flaw with the test. Should have tied those knots to terminal tackle. Swivel, lure or water it’s being tie to. I wonder if you would have had different results for the different diameters. Do like the video.
4 turn GRINNER knot is the name of the "mystery" (fishing fool?) knot. The difference with the original grinner knot is using two turns through the swivel eye. This makes every knot even better imo.
To sell line sell concept of a “100%” line strength knot. You WANT the knot to break well before line damage. Choose your knots, leader and line to cascade down to where you choose to break off if snagged.
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Try a Palomar uni with an overhand finish. My own making (as I haven't seen anyone else do it) it's a double double Palomar knot tighten it and throw an overhand knot to crown it. I never break off an bend out hooks or haul up logs if snagged. It's also above 100%
It might be better for some of these knot tests to use a strong bait hook. Using a thick metal ring won’t allow a knot like clinch knot to hold the tag end as the knot pulls away from the ring. This is why a uni knot is better for tying to split rings because the knot is around the line. Thanks for doing these.
His tests has no validity. Make a difference tieing around a huge ring makes no sense at all.
😅😅😅⁷
Exactly. I agree 100%. I do a lot of testing on my automated Chatillon TCD 200 machine. It pulls the knot at a fixed speed automatically. My tests show that knots tied on rings behave completely different than knots tied on hooks. One major difference you can see is that if you tie on a big ring, it tends to form a teardrop shape as you pull. It loads the knot up in a different direction. When the knot is tied to a hook, the teardrop shape will not happen, so the knot cinches down on itself.
Knots like the Trilene knot that is clearly a 100% knot if tied properly, would not be as strong then tied to a ring because it depends on the tag end being cinched right up to the eyehook. With the teardrop, the tag end does not take up some of the load and the line tightens up on the coils around the main end. Most of the failure is caused by the coils wrapping around the main line tightening up and breaking the line. With the tag end, the coils does not form a death grip around the main line and helps take up the load. I tested 50-100 of the Trilene knots and most break but leaves the knot perfectly in place. I only do the Trilene knots for most of my fishing after running a lot of tests.
You're absolutely right, this way its more realistic as most of us here will be tying these to hooks or lures on smaller gauge metal loops.
Its also one of the reason why the knot tests you see in the Fred Hall (or called Bart Hall) shows are also very flawed. They use a very large ring in that tests. The winners are usually the ones that break well above the line strength and the failure is not at the knot.
It tells you the results are actually based on which part of the line you get from the spool because microscopic flaws would mean the difference between the #1 or the #3 person on the top list. Basically it is not longer your knot skill but the luck of the draw when the take line from the spool.
Have you ever tried it on 100 lb 120lb @ahndeux
IMHO where people mess up with the Palomar on fluoro is that it is strong on a steady pull. It is weak on a slack shock. Knot testing does not account for that. I would rather see the knots tied to a swivel or split ring instead of that fat ring. Different stress on the knot.
Yeah it's kinda hard to beat a knot that is basically 100 percent strength I think he should of used an anchor with a smaller diameter to more fairly test them
You must try bassgangsta knot it’s insane 🍻
I hear that about shock or slack shock on leaders often and it makes me wonder. These lines and leaders are secured to reels through guides generally on 5’ to 7’ long flexible rods. One of the main purposes of rods is flexing to reduce shock. Beyond that nearly all have drags set on the reels. I am highly skeptical of all this reliance on shock leaders.
Needs to be tied to a strong hook. This whole video is wring bc of that huge ring he's using, it won't let the knot clinch up correctly.
You are correct there are actually a lot of factors when fishing that knot tests do not and can not account for.
I love these knot wars. I have always been very interested in this. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Thank you for taking my advice and adding the Fish n Fool knot to your knot test videos.
If you get a gap can you please test it on 20lb fluorocarbon as well and drop the stats here?
Interested to see how it performs on the fluorocarbon.
Hey Ty glad to hear you like and use my knot.
Absolutely loved this vid bro! Amazing knowledge being shared here! Thank you for the time it took to make this one!!
Great video, but I would like to see a repeat of this test with either a snap ring or hook eyelet to better simulate the knots we use. Tight lines!
With a surprising improvement of the double Palomar I would love to see an update for your fluorocarbon video with that knot
This is why I tell new anglers to learn the uni knot. Add and extra loop through the hook eye and it super strong. Also use the “double uni” for an easy line to line leader knot .
Yeah, uni is my go to knot for the reason that it is very versatile. The extra loop was pointed out to me years ago to prevent slippage but I didn't realize it was the strongest.
Nice knot testing demonstration... Definitely going for the fishn fool knot with braid
I just discovered this channel and I am new at fishing. I am looking to define a set of knots for my self.
Having professionnely some experience in testing I think the results presentation is not helpful for selecting a knot. You are looking it from the reference of the line strength that you are not testing during your test(variation in the spool, from spools to spool and temperature). Having an increase in line strength with the knots is a new physics... (it's more a variation in the line).
I look at your results using one knots at the reference and the variations in % from this knot. This guide me to select the knot and the smallest line for the same pooling force.
Thank you for taking the time to test and share the information.
Great video, I have always referred to it as a modified uni knot, and I found it to be the best knot. It's great to see your data backing up my experience.
Double Palomar with braid, don't care how it comes out in the test. I set the hook on a frog as hard as the rest, never had an issue. 8" punker, same.
? Do the results concern you at all that you're tying it to a larger diameter ring than a hook or lure would have?? I wonder if the knots would be pinched and stressed differently on a smaller diameter ring?
Yeah this test is garbage the results dont mean anything
I liked your testing & the way you presented this video.
I learnt a new knot too - the modified uni / fishn' fool knot ☺
thank you !!
Ted
Very good test! Thank you! 👍 I also would've liked to have seen the trilene and the double (or improved) trilene knot added to the test after the clinch. I was very glad you included what line you were using because over the years I've found that some knots that work well with certain braids, end up failing on others. Back in the 80's we quickly find that grandpa's old knots had to be "improved" or "doubled" to help hold. Then later in the late 80's - early 90's we found locking the tag end with a knot or lashing kept some from slipping out. For a little while I even remember everyone carrying around superglue to "lock" their knots... I was never a fan of the glue method for many reasons. The funny thing is, I've seen and tried so many different versions of all different knots and with the braid technology of today, I've found that most of us have reverted back to the older knots we started with! 😂 My favorite knots today are palomar, trilene, and sometimes the improved clinch pulled tight with the tag end double back lashed. When I'm joining lines no matter what type or brand I exclusively use the double uni.
I fish saltwater mainly and some old timers told me I should double up on the loop when I do my uni to prevent slippage. They didn't have a name for it either. But I've been using it ever since.
Tyler, i saw Roland Martin tie the double palomar knot but he also doubled feeding the line through the eye of the hook so 4 strands "looped" over the eye making the knot a lot stronger. I don't think that is easy to do that knot when the wind sun is against you. I tie the palomar or uniknot often but this video opened my eyes to use the fishinfools knot as it seems quite easy to tie.
Please do a short follow up with a quick test of the double palomar , but please take the double line through the eye twice before tying
I think there may be a benefit to trying these knots with also a smaller test lb.
The smaller diameters should cinch differently and, therefore, break differently.
Buy some Jerry Brown Spliceable Hollow Braided Spectra 60 lb and Daho Threading/Looping/Splicing needles. Then make loop knot and do a beaking pull test. It will blow all knots away on breaking point.
Then make wind knot, hollow core braid to leader. It will out preform the fg and pr bobbin knot.
I fish saltwater mainly and knot strength matters especially when you're reeling in a giant bluefish. I learn the modified uni when I first started fishing, an old timer suggested to double loop the braid before tying on the uni to prevent slippage. He didn't have a name for it either but I just started referring to it as the double loop uni, it has been my go to knot because for me the uni is the most versatile knot. I didn't even know it was the strongest.
Do you think that tying it to such a large ring Makes a difference as oppose to tying it to a hook eyelet?
The best knot is one you can tie consistently correct and can see that it is tied correctly before it lets you know it wasn’t by breaking. The added advantage of a Palomar knot ( at least for me) is that it can be tied just by feel which is a huge benefit when night fishing.
I've been attaching flies (18 to 22) and ultralight spinners to mono using a two-wrap nail-knot tied (with the help of a wood toothpick). I've never seen someone use it for terminal tackle or to attach tippet or leaders... A leader section terminating with a double-overhand, then feed the thinner line thru the loop of the unset double-overhand, a two-wrap nail-knot fixes the thinner leader / tippet to the fatter mono. I can't speak much about it, as I lack the scientific testing gear. This is much better than the clinch and blood knots that I tied for years.
I tie my double improved clinch with the initial passing of the line through the hook eyelet two times usually instead of just once. I have gone through three times before doing my twists when I am flipping or pitching, and on my frog rod knots with braid. If you don't, it just slips. I wonder how the way I tie it would show better results. My dad taught me this knot so it has a lot of sentimental value to me when I go fishing.
I've also tied the double palomar before as well. Looks like I'll be using that one from now on.
I like the double polimar knot on any high power hookset techniques. Froggin with braid and flippin/jig with floro
One thing... when tying a line to a hook it is well-known that hook wire size to line diameter has a significant effect on knot strength. That big eye ring in your test set-up puts some of those knots at a disadvantage that may perform very well with a more realistically sized hook eye. The clinch knot is a perfect example. Had it been tied to a smaller eye as in say, an average-sized hook it would have undoubtedly performed better. Also with that knot, the number of wraps is critical, especially with braid which requires more. It wouldn't surprise me that some of the other knots were affected in the same way. It's probably true for your ex-favorite the Palomar too. Try the test on a hook that you would use for fishing bass for example. Though it was a good idea, this major flaw in your test makes me skeptical of the results
Pls try the Palomar knot (or double Palomar knot) wrapping over the ring twice! (as indicated in the little Power Pro booklet that comes with the lines)
I liked your video as i am just getting into using braid, but to me it was more of a test for the braid because on most of them it didn't at the knot. but I have learned so new knots so thank you.
I use the Trilene Knot for terminal tackle , I snell all of my hooks . Some others I use are the Surgeons knot and loop , I fish salt water and have no problem with them , been doing it for over 40 years.
Yes, I use the Trilene as well. Did he not do that knot? Or did he do it under a different name?
I'd like to see that double Palomar on mono or fluorocarbon. I always tie the Palomar because it's so easy to tie and from your tests it's relatively strong. The double Palomar is interesting to me
You ahould do a loop knot war vid. I use the Rapala knot for basically everything I throw in all fishing applications. It has only failed on me when i forgot check my loop after catching 15+ bass. Thats the inly downfall of loop knots. The loop takes most of the strain and becomes weak after awhile. Just gotta keep an eye on it or just clip your old loop knot and tie another fresh one on.
I've always wondered why most of the people on You Tube who talk about their knot of choice (not including the people who actually do comparison tests on their knots, quite obviously) say the Palomar is the strongest. I ran my own tests several months back, using Power Pro, and the Palomar broke at only about 70 percent at best, while the improved version of the uni-knot (with two passes through the eye) was stronger than 100 percent of the rated strength every single time.
I did another test with mono, where I simply tied an improved clinch knot to one end of a length of a length of line, and a Palomar knot to the other end, and pulled from both ends to see which knot would fail. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so the weaker of the two knots will be the one that fails. In about 25 trials, the Palomar knot was the one that broke every time. Then I did a few trials of actually measuring the strength on mono, and the improved clinch knot was always well into the 90-percent range, and the Palomar was far weaker (I don't recall exactly, but I seem to remember that it was never quite as good as 3/4 of the line's rated strength). I don't use an improved uni knot with mono since an improved clinch knot is easier for me and this knot already has far better strength than most others, so I didn't include that in my comparison. Maybe if I ever compared those two knots with mono I'd start using the improved uni-knot for mono too.
I did those tests to see if it was worth it to start using the Palomar knot like half the people on UA-cam say we should all be doing, and the answer for me, is "no".
By the way, every spool of Power Pro fishing line used to come with a booklet full of recommended knots, and their name for your "fishin' fool" knot was just the "uni knot". That's why for years, I always thought that putting that extra loop through the eye when starting a uni knot was standard procedure. I never even considered trying that knot with just a single pass through the eye. It wasn't until I saw your video that I knew anyone ever tied it with a single loop through the eye, or that there might be a reason for me to start calling my old uni knot the "improved uni knot".
70-percent of a line that's labeled 50-pound is going to be way over the test you'll ever need. That 50 probably breaks over 60-pounds, maybe more depending on the brand.
Snell knot has many more advantages than strength. I use it whenever possible and it has improved my landing percentage…
That doesn't look like a true snell
I always use the double palomar knot. It's fast and simple. Now I am going to have to try the fish-n-fool knot a try.
I always use a double palomar knot for braid and a lot times for flouro and mono..Lately I've used the Double San Diego knot for my flouro leader to my jerk bait or lure. I'll start trying the fish-n-fool knot now. I tie an Alberto knot for my braid main line to my flouro leader with 8 wraps back and forth and 4 loops at the very end.
Always used the improved clinched knot without any issues for braid.
Make sure to tighten it while it is wet.
Also, don't tie around a large diameter ring, please tie around something realistic like a hook or bait eye. Thanks!
I only use that fishing fool knot for braid. I wrap 2 times around the hook, 7-8 wraps and wet as I tighten it up, then melt the end of the line.
TYLER, I enjoyed the not tying videos but I have practice on the Fishing fool knot and from what I’m finding while you’re fishing and working a lure almost every time my lines get crossed around the eye what am I doing wrong and why is this happening. To me once the lines get crossed it’s game over. I’ve practiced it multiple times at the house to see what’s going on, but even carefully tying the knot and cinching it down as much as possible, when pulling the mainline each direction away from the eye after about four times the lines cross. I love the knot especially it having over 100% breaking strength, but not if it’s gonna keep crossing like that. Help!!!
Lost a $7 chatterbait yesterday when a fish hit it at the bank because the palomar pulled through. Now that was on flouro so I am heading over to watch THAT video. I have to agree that the thickness of the ring probably caused a lot of issues with the clinch knots. I know it is easier to tie on the big ring but this would have been better with a ring diameter that we normally use. Still, I lost total confidence in the Palomar. Twice I have had it slip. So I will try the fishing fool knot. Looks easy enough. Thanks and love your content!!
Not saying you don’t know how to tie the knot correctly but one key factor to the Palomar is that the mainline going to the knot and the tag end coming out of the knot must both go back through the same loop, otherwise all you have done is created a slip knot.
@@richardbossman9875 And it very well probably is my fault. I'm knot knocking the knot itself, just my issues doing it right.😆
@@danielwallace8434 Tie a double Palomer correctly on braid, flouro and mono...and you won't have any problems and quick to tie.
I’d like to see it done with P-Line CXX copoly. I always use the Triline Knot or Polomar knot. Easy fast knots.
u must try Bassgangsta knot for p-line fluorocarbon line it’s insane 🍻
@@BassGangsta you can have the flouro. I’ll stick with their CXX copoly. I’ve caught 4 double digits on it and also many 20 to 40 pound flatheads and bluecat without any failures.
I hate fluorocarbon line. Copolymer is the way to go.
It would be nice if you showed us how to tie the top knot the fishing for night. I’m pretty sure I learned how to tie this knot from a guy fishing in Texas. What a jig. I’m wondering if it’s the same not. It never broke for me.
Would you try something to satisfy my curiosity? You're using that large ring to tie the braids to. Would you test just the top 2 or three knots when tied to a regular hook or swivel? I believe it will change your end data and may even rearrange the order of knot strength.
Looks like I'm switching to a double palomar for my braided, thank you😊. I can't remember much anymore, maybe my head got hit too many times, palomar, clinch and standard and how to tie my boat off to a dock!
How many 'spins' do you use on the improved clinch knot? I use seven on braid, five on mono.
The slipping on the clinch with the braid is because the metal ring is so much larger than the line itself. You can’t get it tighten this scenario. If you were tying it off to normal size tackle this would not happen. I have used the clinch since braid has been out and NEVER had it slip.
I appreciate the time spent. I learned a knee knot I never knew of. Why I watch these.
I must have missed the knee knot.
Considering that the rod and the action of the rod does have affect on the line and its breaking point, unless you’re fishing with a steel pole, you might get a lot more poundage considering the rod will be taking some stress off the line
I've been using a no name knot my grandfather used my whole life and it turns out to be a simpler version of the fish n fool knot. My grandfather's knot breaks half the time and slips half the time so I guess I'll try the fish n fool to see what happens next time I hang up on a log.
Will there be a mono test in the future as well
For some reason the double SDJ is better in fluro, but the single SDJ seems better in braid. At least in my tests.
Seems like the cinch of the DSDJ gives me fits in braid.
Is the Fish and fool knot not good for Fluorocarbon?
While its good for braid - would u rec modified uni knot on fluoro? Been using improved and palomar, but looking to up new knots after some slippage - might to try this out
Also are you retying at the break or are you cutting off everything between the vise and the scale?
have you done a video on braid to fluro knot strengths?
That's next on the plate
@@BassFishingHQ AWESOME.
I'd like to see your results from the double line uni knot. I believe that would be the new champ.
Thanks for doing this test and sharing it with us. This is very useful data. Keep up the great content.
I’m very excited for the leader knot video
My new knot for lures is improved uni, and for braid to flouro: FG KNOT. Thanks!!
is ROTOKNOTTER ( noeud au tube ) is one of your knot ? thanks Leclerc sea farmer ( cockles and clams )in France
the only time I use braid is on a frog and I always use a no slip loop knot for more action ?
Love this test(s). Had enough knot tying yet?lol Howa bout trying it with the line WET. Wonder if/bet your #'s change?! Thanks!
Another great video!
So, for Florcarbon line, is the san diago jam knot better than the fish and fool knot? Or would the double uni knot be better? What's your thoughts?
I'd like someone test the Eugene slip knot. Easy to tie and strongest knot I've used. I don't see many people reference to it.
That ring that you tied the knot is too thick
Improved Clinch probably pulls through because you are using a large diameter rappel ring to tie it to. Wondering what would happen if you tied it to a small diameter wire or hook eye.
I was at bass pro shop and they bad a knot wars matching and they were letting us tie our best knot using izore love XXX 2 lb. Test I had it breaking at 6 .08 lbs we did this 5 times my highest one breaking knot was 6.57 lbs again using 2 lb. Test xxx loved up to its name...... And loved is line and for some reason my phone won't let correct it works erasing everything to get back to it so there you go oh ya I was trying the double Palomar.......a little later I did one with just a regular Palomar broke at 5.82 as I recall....I think the Palomar is a great knot just maybe not the best choice for braid. Mono all day flouro pretty much most of the time and you'll be ok
Am I missing something? What about the Trilene knot? You didn't show all the knot tying; was it one of the ones you did but under a different name? I'll for sure experiment with your new winner there. That was amazing. Great video!
I am wondering if that FishNFool/ modified uni is any good for fluorocarbon knots? It wasn't on the knot test for fluoro.
I use an improved clinch knot for literally everything. Braid, monofilament, fluorocarbon, 6 pound test, 150 pound test, I don't care. It's the only knot I use. And I've never had a problem with it.
if you have time do the improved clinch knot again but this time put a knot on the tail end.I was told by an older fishermen that that knot will prevent it from slipping
Was the improved clinch wrapped 7 times? or maybe 5 time or 3?
Maybe try a hybrid knot between the fishin fool and the Palomar. Meaning, pass your doubled over line through the eye twice just like you do with the fishin fool. Then proceed with the double palomar as you had previously. It’s tricky to cinch but I haven’t been able to break it.
I have a concern that the large thickness of the 2 inch diameter ring you are using could give a different result to something which is much closer to the actual diameter of the thickness of the hook.
Can you run a couple of tests and see if there’s a difference between that and an actual hook something closer to a hook?
Can you make a video tutorial for the FishNFool knot? =)
A single line through the hook eye twice in the same direction and then a 5-7 turn uni knot.
Man you're like Buddy the elf crankin a jack in the box! You wince every time the line snaps haha!
I have been using the Fishing Full Knot for 2 lb. test leaders when trout fishing.
I know the double pitson scored badly. But it hasn’t broken from shock. For me and there isn’t a way to Test shock I’ve been doing fish n fool since this video. But I broke off on a hook set. But idk if it was shock or a fray in my line.
Can you please re-test fish-fool knot with Fluor?
My braid fails for me the most when my lure hook has pierced the line and I do not cut and retie. ( I always say, I’ll retie after next cast, then it fails😂) I have tied the Uni knot 7 wraps on braid and never had it fail. Your mileage may vary!
Would have liked to see the Trilene knot tested
You can see how quite a few people are recommending that you don't tie these knots onto such a thick ring. When the knot is tied to something so thick, you can see how the two legs of the loop are pulling outward at a steep angle, putting an "expansion" stress on the knot which can tend to cut it open from the inside out. That likely weakens some knots. But you also saw how even a very strong hook came close to failing when you were testing a snell with 50# line. Next time, for your main knots, get a sturdy snap-swivel. You can tied the line to the swivel so your knot tests match conditions in the real world, and you can attach the snap to the hook on your scale. A sturdy snap-swivel will be more than strong enough for this kind of testing.
When testing snell knots, turn turn your whole orientation around, end for end. Tie your snell knot to your hook and anchor the hook in your vice (so the hook can't straighten out and fail). Rig up any kind of "friction knot" at the other end, and if that can't be hooked directly to your scale (I can think of ways to make this attachment quite easy but I don't want to write an extra paragraph), use a length of stronger cord (light rope) to pass between the device with the friction knot and the hook on your scale. The orientation of the fishing line makes no difference, nor does its length.
By the way, in case you aren't already doing it, each test should be done using a length of line which hasn't already been part of a previous test, just in case the tension at its previous failure point did any damage, or in case that section that you grip in the vice becomes damaged (you probably already thought of this).
I have a question? It looks like the line is braking away, not at the knot nor the knot itself. So isn't that showing that all the knots holds, but the line is weaker or stronger at certain points? Other then the first knot all of them held on.
It appears that you avoid using the double uni but frequently tie other knots in a double version. Is there something about that know that makes it not worth using or testing?
Improved Clinch on braid requires double the turns you would need for normal lines. I've personally never had a Clinch, improved or not, slip like that as long as I'm doing the right number of turns. It's my go-to knot for tying a braided main to a barrel swivel ahead of a leader. Leader always breaks before the main for me.
Fishin fool knot looks to have advantage over palomar for large baits because you don't have to put the lure through a loop. Will have to try with Fireline.
The Fishing Full knot looks a lot like the Lindeman Knot. That’s a great easy to make knot!
You have to try the Impossible Knot. Its my new favorite. Hasnt disappointed yet.
I like watching these types of videos. My question is do we know or have tested what is the actual pressure put on line/knots by a fish when fighting?
It is tiny compared to where these knot are breaking! We catch marlin using a mere 8-pounds of drag using 30-pound test mono! If you want to find out how much eight pounds of drag is on your bass rod, fill a five gallon bucket with 8-pounds of water and try to lift it with your rod and reel.
Thank you, I learned something today. Looking forward to the Braid to Flouro Video
+1 Improved snell knot with an offset eye hook. Octopus, etc.
How many turns on that improved clinch?
I saw a show where JP DeRose was showing what you call the Fishin' Fool knot and he was saying he likes it specifically for braid. I've been tying it ever since but I call it a Double Round Turn Uni Knot because it's a double round turn through the eye and finished off with a Uni Knot. I tie that knot for braid and/or the Trilene knot for mono or fluoro and have never broken off at the knot with either one. Lost MANY on the Palomar. Hate the Palomar.
Interesting test, thank you for the video. However there may be a small flaw with the test. Should have tied those knots to terminal tackle. Swivel, lure or water it’s being tie to. I wonder if you would have had different results for the different diameters. Do like the video.
I used double pitzen a few times. Guess I didn’t cinch it down well enough but lost my frog on a cast. Never tying it again lol
4 turn GRINNER knot is the name of the "mystery" (fishing fool?) knot. The difference with the original grinner knot is using two turns through the swivel eye. This makes every knot even better imo.
how does the loop knot compare?
Im interested in trilene knot vs all these top knots.
To sell line sell concept of a “100%” line strength knot. You WANT the knot to break well before line damage. Choose your knots, leader and line to cascade down to where you choose to break off if snagged.
These videos are great. Great work!
How will the fish n fool perform with fluoro?
It preforms well but it is not the best knot out there on fluoro, It is the worlds strongest knot for braid and mono though.