Even more striking when you consider D&D were going off-script with this scene. Between this, war stories, and Arya/Tywin, is it any wonder we found out the hard way they weren't able to wind the series up
@jeanpaulsinatra they gave up, they arent bad writers when they care about the material but years later they obviously got burnt out. And delivered the worst season in history on tv possibly.
Robert and Ned are so Perfect that almost everyone that watched the series would want a show with just them on the road or one where they both survived the first season.
Books, with Need an Robert chapters are great especially after Neds accident an Robert an Cersie talking to Ned are great Way Better than the show luv Robert back handing Cersie is great 😅
And series about pre Robert’s rebellion would be nice love to see two buddies in their prime unlike their bitter end in S1 or focus on Tywin before Robert’s rebellion would be interesting.
Basically all the scenes of characters telling stories about the past are so compelling. Partially because GRRMs worldbuilding for the set up of a game of thrones is incredible, partially because they are acted really well, but I think mostly because the script does a great job of turning essentially exposition into character studies through their tales.
I agree. The last series gets a lot of hate - some of it justifiably so - but one thing it lacked that didn't help it was the fact the story had to move on and couldn't keep referencing these old tales which are told so well. They're these amazing little glimpses into things in the early seasons, from Robert's stories mentioned above, to the White Walkers, all of it. It created a weight of expectation that sadly wasn't met.
@@nicktwyford That's a really good point. The characters were all too young to remember Westeros' noble past before everything went to shit. Only Tyrion and Edmure Tully are likely qualified to be choosing a new King based on their knowledge of Westeros' past.
Robert was such an interesting, INFURIATING and trágic character. He knows he's utterly unfit for kingship and hates it. But stays becuse his "son" would be MUCH worse. And also the scene when he admits to never loving his brothers hits hard
>And also the scene when he admits to never loving his brothers hits hard kinda hits hard to us in the modern world, but in westeros, if you are raised by some other lord that's not your dad, in a castle hundreds/thousands of miles from home & family, how can you expect anything else? He was raised by Jon Arryn, with Ned Stark as fellow ward. Makes total sense that he loves them more than his brothers.
Robert isn't utterly unfit to be king. He grew up to be the Lord of one of the great houses of westeros, so he is trained for ruling, and as it is repeated a lot in the books, his reign ends up to be one of the most peaceful and prosperous to be remembered, because he was, and I quote, "the real steel". He is both feared and loved, even by Twyin, making any attempt at true rebellion after the Greyjoys pointless. But he is in an abyss of self loathing and hedonism, particularly in the last years of his reign, clearly depressed; he hates to be king not for the crown itself, but because he thought it would have given him some relief from what he thinks his failures are, and he discovers that not even that is enough to run away from himself.
@@giuseppeanoardi3973Robert is unfit to be king,thats the whole point of the character,he was a great warrior and super charismatic wich united people but being a war hero doesnt mean you will be a great king. Robert reign while it looked great on the surface,because Jon Arryn was hand,there were lots of tourneys and feasts,and it was during a long summer,it was plagued by corruption,crippling amounts of debt for the crown,and in the end it also resulted in a civil war and many people in the books think that Aerys was a better king than Robert for most of its reign before he went totally mad. Robert was the way he is shown before even becoming King,it just got worse.
he did say he wanted to leave the kingdoms and his rule behind and become a sellsword king in essos, something like "the songs they'd write about the sellsword king"
It's hinted at multiple times through the show but this scene really hammers it home: Varys, Tywin, Pycelle, they're all wrong. King Robert was neither a complete moron, nor was he indifferent to the realm he governed. He did drown his sorrow over Lyanna stark in wine and whores, but that didn't make him dull or unobservant in any way. I think he actually realised pretty early in his reign that the realm was critically unstable and him defeating Aerys didn't solve the underlying issue of the increasing tensions between the noble houses of Westeros. My theory is that he barely governed on purpose, thinking that letting every lord do their own thing largely unchecked is the best way to avoid stepping on anybodys toes and causing yet another rebellion or civil war. When he talks to Cersei about the unity of a potential Dothraki invasion he actually reveals that he's well aware that his own crown is hanging by a thread and he has next to no real support outside the capital. So his strategy was to take the target off his back by ceding responsibility, delegating nearly all power to the small council and the local lords.
I very much like this idea for at least how the show conveys Robert. The more times I've read ASOIAF, the more I question whether he was truly just a great soldier... but I love how the show painted such a different character that definitely could meet your portrayal. And truly an example of the tragedy of how D&D knew how to write once upon a time.
@@a.p.2019they’re mid at adapting. But remember grrm was very active in the writing of the 1st 2nd seasons less so later on. (Writers room thing i mean0
Scenes like this prove that D&D can write. It demonstrates they understand the characters and can write diagolgue/scenes that are on par with GRRM. That's why it is absolutely maddening how the show went off the rails. I hope some day we get a tell-all book or documentary that tells us exactly how it broke down.
they occasionally had a good scene, but they had a great deal more f-ups with their original additions/alterations than wins. it just became totally obvious once they passed the books
D&D were showrunners. They get the credit, but not necessarily involved in the scenes themselves. The Director and Producers craft the scenes. If you watch the credits youll see in those episdodes who craft the scenes. Compare those credits to later episodes. Youll see D&D being producers and writers then, but NOT in earlier seasons.
It's because they were really good at translating the books to the show. When they passed the books, they didn't have a source material to work from and just kinda waddled forward.
@@tomwhitworth1560 they willingly refused to adapt stuff from the last two books, the "run out of books" for anything pre season 6 is horseshit/false. I'm not pissed toward you, but toward the excuse.
@@fandemusique4693They could've easily gotten 3-4 seasons out of Feast and Dance, and instead they basically crammed it all into 1 season and skipped most stuff.
Really glad to see someone cover this scene. It was the first time GoT really wowed me. I watched the show before reading the books so I didn't even know the full story behind Lyanna and Robert but Mark Addy's acting here really sold it so well.
The bits with Robert's memory make me think he is either consciously or unconsciously trying to forget her. Similar to the "How drunk is drunk enough" scene in The Legend of Bagger Vance. Robert has a great memory for hundreds of things he doesn't want to remember. Tragically or maybe it's his own mind protecting him, he can't clearly remember her.
I took it as a sign that Robert was unreasonably infatuated with someone he didn't really know. Could make sense given we already know Lyanna didn't even want him.
Remembering things you don’t want to and not remembering things you do is a common curse of warriors. For some reason our brains hold onto the horror and let go of more pleasant things
I think, with Robert, the idea of marrying lyanna was more the idea of being Ned's brother by marriage. She was perfect, because she was Ned's sister, and the means by which their families could be united. In that sense, she was 'perfect'. But again, this just shows how deep in delusion Robert allowed himself to be in.
I think you’re very close to the truth, Lyanna represents a time in Robert’s life, his youth, his peak, his boldness, and of course being brothers with Ned.
@@anon2427 Yes, it plays into the idea that his love for Lyanna wasn't actually about her, but about how he dreamed it could have been and of better days. It was a perfect love because it was never tested by an actual marriage. I think Robert's love for Ned, and even for John Aryyn, were his strongest positive feelings.
You dont get this delusional over a political match. Lyanna was the girl in his head. Sharp. Boyish. Capable. Despite never really getting to know her, the idea of her slipped into Robert's fantasy of THE girl, that every man has whether they're conscious of it or not.
Wow, such an exceptional video! I think this scene is proof that you don’t need dragons or epic battles for Game of Thrones to be amazing. The real battles are fought with words. Just two people at a table, tearing each other apart with simple truths. And that line-"I can't even remember her face"? It’s like a knife to the gut. But I want to say, I never noticed how it’s such a contradiction: he remembers every little detail of battles but can’t remember Lyanna’s face. That hits so hard. It makes him so tragic-stuck chasing a fantasy of what could’ve been-while Cersei’s just stuck in the reality of what never was. It’s heartbreaking for both of them in completely different ways. This made me want to go back and rewatch the whole show... well, at least the good seasons 😉
He was stuck chasing a fantasy that would never work out, causing the downfall of a house mostly because he had his heart broken. I don’t think Ned ever wanted all the Targs dead. Robert went crazy for love.
This scene is just *UPSETTINGLY* well-written. It shows that they had the full capability to truly understand and showcase the characters and story, while being flexible with book canon or even diverging entirely, and they just flat chose to be bad on purpose later.
the only reason this scene exists is that they missed a few minutes of footage for that epiosode and because most of the cast was already in holidays they had to come up with something to fill those minutes with the cast they had at hand... nonetheless its well written.
@@mehmetfatihyilmaz1641 Damn, I bet you could hear me sighing deeply all the way from here. Yeah, that sounds about right for what I know of D&D. Thanks for the info.
@@thefairybug40 it's in the book of James Hibbert called "fire cannot kill a dragon". I would really recommend it, since it gives a lot of background information about the show.
The problem is - GRRM never finished the story. If he had, I doubt D&D would have ended it as they had. More to the point, GRRM has crafted a story that he himself CANNOT finish. What the story needs is a classic high fantasy finish, but GRRM can't bring himself to do it. It's why it's not done yet, and will never be done since GRRM only wants to subvert high fantasy, not resort to it. He crafted a story where John should be the king and the answer to the prophecy, but in turn, doesn't want it to be John. There's no way D&D could ever ended the show correctly.
@@jakedunnegan D&D were entirely at fault for their ending, they completley ignored *Corn* everything from AFFC and ADWD, and in the books it is very *Snow* clear that John and Dany are the prophesised heros. D&D were the ones who decided the long *King* night should be one night of battle, *Snow* and that Arya kills the Night King. John can still be the prophesised hero and not become *Corn* king. In my opinion the true hero of ASOIAF shouldn't save the *King* world and then mount the seat of *Snow* power of a fuedal system that has relentlessly held the world in a cycle of violence. I do agree though that George has created a story he can't finish but I still have hope for TWOW. (Ignore Mormonts raven it keeps talking about King Snow and corn or something, maybe John will become corn king!?) *Corn*
They may be decent writers but they can never be forgiven for not carrying the show into the end zone. It really doesn’t matter the reason because they could have handed the show off to knew showrunners if they wanted to leave. They are not to be trusted.
They are good when they have materials to work off of--just like ChatGPT summarizing with no originality. But once the material was gone they were lost in the wilderness.
Mark Addy performance is above and beyond any award. My favorite scene of all time. Also music in that scene is brilliant. Thank you for covering this.
He was so compelling. Whatever we say about the last seasons, the casting on the show was absolutely brilliant, even smaller characters were often so charismatic - Syrio Forrell was barely even there and he stole his scenes, the Faceless Man too... Mark Addy was one of the highlights among a stellar cast.
@@AW-uv3cb I agree, I think Addy as Robert steals every scene in first season. Delivery of "Someone took her away from me, and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind.", and "She should be on a hill, somewhere with the sun and the clouds above her." is really special. I think one day somebody will make a video essay and analise.
Robert was played flawlessly. This scene shows that he wasnt the drunken oaf we were led to believe he was. This scene really sold me the series. Everyone can relate to it. I know ive lived it to a degree.
Gonna have to disagree with one thing. Robert might not have been a fool, but he sure did do a lot of foolish things. He did not take part in raising his heir, he did not take part in ruling his Kingdom and let it fall into debt and never taught his Squire what a breastplate stretcher was.
Robert lacked the strength of character to be king. Even if he could see bad things happening around him it meant nothing if he couldn't apply himself to get it solved.
The first seasons were co-written by martin alongside with d&d, he left in season 3 or 4 I seem to recall. I can totally see him being wise, able and aware enough to put all of these things together writing this dialogue
They weren't co-written, just authorised by him. He looked over the scripts and had formal input on everything. But all his power was ceremonial. HBO often ignored him or just didn't ask. D&D was the only way a lot of GRRMs' ideas were implemented because they had a great working relationship with him. If he had co-written it, they wouldn't have cut so many characters.
You have no idea how happy I am to see this. I've always felt, since the first time I saw this scene, that it was not only one of my all time favorite scenes in the show, but that it also perfectly encapsulates exactly what it was about seasons 1-4 that made this show such a masterpiece (or the first half of it at least). It's so rare to see Hollywood blockbusters making an attempt to actually fully humanize their characters and show that they're more than just one-dimensional caricatures with one or two defining attributes that make up the entirety of their personality, but instead actually have complex, contradictory, and unexpectedly sympathetic sides to them... you know, like real humans do. Taking a drunk, incompetent king and showing you that underneath his escapism he's actually a deeply intelligent, thoughtful, and emotionally damaged man, or taking his sociopath, hateful wife and showing you that there used to be a hopeful, joyous side to her that got buried under the weight of decades of pain and trauma. I think people tend to be uncomfortable having to confront the sympathetic side of characters they're meant to hate and root against, which is a shame, because it's so crucially important for people to be able to take that uncomfortable view of humanity and recognize that even their enemies deserve some measure of compassion and understanding. Anyway, this was the scene that elevated GoT from a wonderfully done, surprisingly high quality fantasy show to a masterpiece, at least for me. Great video, and thanks for sharing.
Things would be dark if Robert had gotten what he wanted. Imagine: he gets to marry Lyanna, Lyanna's still in love with Rhaegar, their relationship totally fails to live up to his dreams, Robert abuses Lyanna the way he abuses Cersei, Ned feels he has to step in to protect his sister against his king
Discovered you by pure chance. But this was a great perception. Your ability to perceive such details and connect them to the context is amazing. This was a heartwarming video. And a true reminder to many aspects of human nature we can probably never fully overcome, such as clinging to our own expectations and projections while the reality itself is different.
The layers in this scene are INSANE! D&D caught so much hate (deserved for s8 lets be real) but they absolutely killed it with this original scene. I hate it when people say early GOT was only good because it followed the books. This scene proves otherwise. Like if you're reading this in 2025 and somehow haven't watched GOT (how??), this kind of writing is why you need to start from S1. No notes, absolutely perfect video essay.
this scene follows pretty well with the books, even if it wasn't *in* the books they had a lot of original scenes that sucked -- especially compared to *amazing* scenes from the books that they omitted.
It’s because they respect the source material deeply when they add their own scenes, whilst some cinema writers don’t, like Star Wars for example. D&D failed in the last season because they rushed it, wanting to finish it earlier to start different projects (which ironically didn’t get to happen anyway)
Hey, love this video you should do a video on Cersei talking with Oberyn Because it’s another one of those scenes where she drops the façade for some seconds, and then catches herself. There’s also something else that she does when she catches herself in a situation where her emotions might show and that is, she purposefully breaks eye contact first. She does it in this scene with Robert who, as you said is not as stupid as everyone believes him to be and has a knack for seeing people when he is looking for something. Oberyn and her conversation was pretty much built to break her façade with them talking about their children.
100% agreed with you. Early show is filled with original scenes that add A LOT. I would argue (and GRRM agrees) Rob's wife is better in the show than books.
Lovely video. I’ve been rewatching Game of Thrones recently and my goal is to make note of things I didn’t find during my first watch. This video really puts it into perspective of how I’d like to be better at analyzing. Thank you, Valaritas.
00:59, i think part of the reason they get so much hate is that this scene, the Catelyn and Talisa scene in the riverlands, and a few more shows us they are more than capable of making their own original content that fit the world a story so well, its just that they didn't care by the end and wanted to get it over with but also didn't want anyone else's name on their baby.
It is sad to say, but I doubt that other people as well as actors cared much more. The show had become a big part of their lives, too big. Kit Harington had to deal with serious issues as a result of losing his privacy and everyone taking part in the show had carried similar pressure and weight on their shoulders for too long. I assume they truly wanted the show to be over at the end despite being unsatisfied with the ending. So I don't blame anyone really for how the show ended, they are all just people after all.
Just blew my mind!! What can I say, there are a lot of great observations here but these are my favorites: 5:25 and 7:34. This video made me appreciate the scene and D&D even more... I don't know how they messed up with last couple of seasons. They are clearly great writers...
Glad someone covered this scene. This and Robert's war talk are my favourite scenes involving Robert and giving us insight into his mind that we don't get in the first book. Sometimes I wish characters like Robert and Tywin were POV characters in the books so we could explore their thoughts and feelings but alas they aren't.
Cersei was not only sidelined for a dead woman, she was sidelined for that woman when said woman was alive too. Cersei thought she was going to marry Rhaegar and I do believe she witnessed the blue roses 'incident'. Imagine how she feels that she cannot kill Lyanna ...
Robert never loved Lyanna Stark, he loved the idea idea of her, he wanted her, lusted for her, but he didn't love her and when Rhaegar took her away because she loved him and he loved her, though no one knew, that angered Robert because she wouldn't be his now. Robert is a well written tragic character, he's not a good person, he's just a person, flaws and all.
I noticed after reading the books that the show also changed the dynamic between Tyrion and Twyin somewhat. For example, Tywin didn’t want Tyrion fighting in the Vanguard but he wouldn’t admit it was out of any love for him. Compared to the show where he tells him he has to fight in the Vanguard. I got the feeling from the book that Tywin does love Tyrion and hates himself for it but it’s not as obvious in the show.
Never ignore or dismiss the beauty of the physical acting involved in the early seasons of this show. Cersei's gulps and facial ticks in this scene alone portray a lot of what she's feeling in the moment. Edit: Robert's "love" for Lyanna is the sane as Snape's for Lily. It's obsession. And, perhaps, the worship of someone who both men believe can make them better people without them actually trying to be better.
That was one of the best scenes of the entire show. King Robert showed us why he deserved to be consider a great leader. And there's the similarities between King Robert and King Robb, both were murdered because of love but before their deaths we saw their great Martial prowess/tactical minds. Cersei was always evil, so her actions were inevitable. It was rumoured she murdered her friend as a kid after speaking to Maggy the Frog and being told her future. It always amused me how the Lyanna Stark we saw looks like Daenerys Targaryen. King Robert loved Lyanna and wanted to kill Dany, Jon Snow/Aegon Targaryen was Lyanna's son and nephew/lover of Dany....
I don't think it's fair to say Cersei was just evil. She never intended for Ned to be executed and she loved her family...except Tyrion. The only times she acted reprehensibly was because someone had harmed her family or to prevent harm from coming to her family. If you think Cersei was evil because she did what she had to do to keep her family in power, then did you view Margery in the same light? I loved Margery's character and she probably would have done more for the "small folk" then Cersei but she groomed Cersei's last surviving child and taunted Cersei with it which in hindsight is really gross/disturbing.
@ “Maggy also warns that Melara will die very soon, and true enough, she drowns in a well shortly after.” Cersei is likely to have murdered Melara Hetherspoon when they were young so she was always evil.
@@taureansynner6993 but killing someone isn’t the sole measure of evil. Cersei wasn’t a good character and many times she wasn’t a likeable character but her actions were to protect herself and her loved ones. If killing someone indicates evil, then almost all of the characters on the show were evil. The most selfless character on the show, Jon, killed a fan favorite but you wouldn’t call him evil.
Good analysis connecting the "remember every face" of people he killed and tying it to that scene. I never realized Cersei was talking bc she knew she would kill him
I’d never considered that Cersei was only asking about Lyanna because she knew she’d kill Robert soon so she wanted some type of closure. So interesting and it makes sense!
I feel it was the quiet conversations between two individuals that was the backbone of GoT. When two great characters came together it was so juicy. And then there was Hodor 💔
That was my favorite scene in season 1. It was beautiful. Like, a perfect perspective showing done like a bad exposition dump. Yet, it is masterful because while it does give you the knowledge you need, it shows you that through the two people at the top, and how shocked they are about how it has made them feel versus their expectations.
I’ve always felt the most heartbreaking thing about that line of 7 kingdoms not being enough was the fact he was saying it to his “wife”… imagine how neglected that must make a person feel when your significant other doesn’t realize the person he is saying this to is supposed to be the one who fills that void.
First of all, great job, lots of moments gave me the chills. Game of thrones dialogues are sometimes so good, that it just makes you drunk by just listening and makes you unable to perceive every details. This video ( for me ) correct that phenomenon. I loved that scene, now, I loved it even more, admire it even. And makes me frustrated by knowing it was made by the same two guys rushed the final two seasons for their own agenda/career, making got a marvel kind of cinematics
i am rewatching the show and that scene gets me every time. the intimacy and the humanity... and none of that matters in the end because they are still puppets dancing on the strings of their parents....
I remember when game of thrones was a new little show on HBO. I had never heard of A Song of Ice and Fire. I would try to convince my friends that the quite scenes. The scenes with two people walking down a corridor are so much more powerful than any ice zombies or dragons. Good times.
The thing i remember most about that scene was that robert at least understands that they are kings and queens of the seven kingdoms only as long as the people say they are. They may be rich and powerful but they have to at least pretend to care. As soon as robert mentioned the common people she no longer cared.
This scene convinced me that my suspicion that Gendry was Cersei's black haired baby that was taken from her was accurate. Now it seems that baby was a lie in the books. Gendry's memories of his mother fit, too.
The way Cersei talks about her black-haired baby boy makes it sound like he died as a newborn; Gendry wouldn't have been able to remember his blonde-haired mother at that young of an age.
It can be a real joy to have a character revealed rather than shown. We don't need to see a flashback to a younger Cersi in love with Robert. It hits deep when we think she always hated this marriage of convenience but she tells us she loved him. She thought he was amazing and she was lucky to have him. Let the viewers imagination fill in the story of a girl in love growing angry and despondent with a husband still in love with a ghost.
BobbyB's and Ned's relationship is THE best part of the show. The amount of brotherly love, trust, and respect is just inspiring. I always find it so wonderful how Ned lowers his ever-so-serious posture only when with BB.
One of the greatest tragedies is that Robert didn't really want to be king any more than Cersei wanted to be his wife; they both felt trapped. Imagine a world where Robert brought in Jayme and the three of them discussed how to abdicate the Iron Throne. Robert fakes his death with the help of Varys and Littlefinger, anoints Cersei as queen regent with the Lannisters in charge, and quietly slips away into retirement as a mercenary, perhaps with Barriston Selmy as his guardian. He gets to go back to being a simple fighting man and everyone else gets to play their Game of Thrones. But then...you wouldn't have a season 1 dramatic arc.
Before this scene I was still hesitant about if I liked this series or not. After watching it, I was sold. I loved the sincerity they both talk to each other. It was surprising and amazing.
Mark Addy’s performances were Oscar worthy, this was before the huge budgets of later series and the growing popularity. He wasn’t in it for long, but had a big impact in my view setting the series up for future success. Not talked about enough.
Just finished the first book of the SoI&F & it’s interesting to see all the scenes that weren’t in the book but played so well in the show. You know immediately which scenes fall into which category by who’s in the scene. GRRM writes from multiple perspectives, not standard Chapter format. If nobody in the scene in a written perspective, that scene is impossible in the book. As neither Robert nor Cersei are a written perspective, you immediately know this scene is impossible in the novel.
The way Cersei just stands there when Robert tells her he can't remember his true love's face anymore, you can just tell she's putting herself at his place, wondering if she'd forget about Jaime's face eventually if she lost him
I wonder if Robert has to keep telling himself he did it for Lyanna, otherwise it really was just an excuse to usurp the throne. It would explain why he doesn't remember her face and why he gets riled up, even after all those years; he hasn't processed what's happened, what he is; the usurper.
I loved this scene! I enjoy spotting the differences between book and show, and while the books show a richer detail of the world and it’s inhabitants, it did lack some of the intimate conversations between characters not in the spotlight of the chapters within.
I always thought she asks him if he ever felt anything for her because she’s waiting for some kind of answer that makes her change her mind about killing him. I suppose I was wrong. Great analysis. Greetings from Spain.
The problem wasn't that D&D were bad writers, they could clearly write good original material. The problem is they didn't care to continue on with the show, they wanted it wrapped up ASAP after like season 6. A better solution would've been to hand it off to someone like Ryan J. Condal who could give it a proper 10 season run like HBO and George initially wanted
Robert is in fact a rather compelling character. Yes, he is a man of impulsive nature who drowns his sorrow in wine and other indulgence. But in my opinion, he was well aware of the direction the realm was heading into from the first days of his rule and that deep down, he knew he could't stop it. Taking a look again at his behaviour or his with Ned, this makes sense. That kind of powerlessness had reduced the man he once was to what we saw in this scene.
Robert Baratheon was always a character that captured me above the others, exactly because of this duality, but I believe that GRRM had to leave the character not so humanized, so that other cores and plots become the culmination that forms in the first book, the The fact that I'm fascinated anyway is because I see in him parallels of the fallen hero, something that Martin is the best at writing and developing, and he would perfect this in Jaime Lannister, but in the series in this scene and in the others added by D&D they finally and carefully arrived at this, Robert is just like Jaime, the harsh reality of his actions, desires, dreams and expectations, he had enormous talent as a leader, military commander and warrior, and achieved comparable success only, I think of Aegon Conqueror, but even so he found himself with nothing, completely empty, one of his best phrases is "I killed Rhaegar that day, but he was the one who won, because he is dead with my Lyanna" something similar to that, he fought for everything but didn't feel complete with anything, especially since I always interpreted his death, his lifestyle, close to the events of the book as a real slow suicide attempt and his own strange death against the boar, nothing more for me than a portrait of that, a direct suicide or even a last card against the "enemy", something he always had pleasure and success in, but in the end he didn't, thus finally giving him the rest he wanted , until when he achieved final success, he failed.
Which scene should I cover next?
something with Tywin Lannister for sure.
TYWIN AND ARYA
joffrey and tywin!
Chaos is ladder!
Jaime bathtub
"GODS the writing was strong then..." - Bobby B, King Stag
Those were the days
read that with the voice of chuckles the mad clown, sorry he used the same phrase. :D
Even more striking when you consider D&D were going off-script with this scene. Between this, war stories, and Arya/Tywin, is it any wonder we found out the hard way they weren't able to wind the series up
@jeanpaulsinatra they gave up, they arent bad writers when they care about the material but years later they obviously got burnt out. And delivered the worst season in history on tv possibly.
All of Robert's scenes were perfectly crafted
Robert and Ned are so Perfect that almost everyone that watched the series would want a show with just them on the road or one where they both survived the first season.
That's what really kept me interested. The dialog was great.
Books, with Need an Robert chapters are great especially after Neds accident an Robert an Cersie talking to Ned are great Way Better than the show luv Robert back handing Cersie is great 😅
Gods the writing was strong back then...
And series about pre Robert’s rebellion would be nice love to see two buddies in their prime unlike their bitter end in S1 or focus on Tywin before Robert’s rebellion would be interesting.
Basically all the scenes of characters telling stories about the past are so compelling. Partially because GRRMs worldbuilding for the set up of a game of thrones is incredible, partially because they are acted really well, but I think mostly because the script does a great job of turning essentially exposition into character studies through their tales.
The entire story has a multilayered current world vs the past juxtaposition.
All the best characters are dead before the first book starts.
I agree. The last series gets a lot of hate - some of it justifiably so - but one thing it lacked that didn't help it was the fact the story had to move on and couldn't keep referencing these old tales which are told so well. They're these amazing little glimpses into things in the early seasons, from Robert's stories mentioned above, to the White Walkers, all of it. It created a weight of expectation that sadly wasn't met.
@@nicktwyford I never thought of that
@@kurtwagner350 I didn't either until I watched the video! 🙂
@@nicktwyford That's a really good point. The characters were all too young to remember Westeros' noble past before everything went to shit.
Only Tyrion and Edmure Tully are likely qualified to be choosing a new King based on their knowledge of Westeros' past.
Robert was such an interesting, INFURIATING and trágic character. He knows he's utterly unfit for kingship and hates it. But stays becuse his "son" would be MUCH worse. And also the scene when he admits to never loving his brothers hits hard
>And also the scene when he admits to never loving his brothers hits hard
kinda hits hard to us in the modern world, but in westeros, if you are raised by some other lord that's not your dad, in a castle hundreds/thousands of miles from home & family, how can you expect anything else?
He was raised by Jon Arryn, with Ned Stark as fellow ward. Makes total sense that he loves them more than his brothers.
Robert isn't utterly unfit to be king. He grew up to be the Lord of one of the great houses of westeros, so he is trained for ruling, and as it is repeated a lot in the books, his reign ends up to be one of the most peaceful and prosperous to be remembered, because he was, and I quote, "the real steel". He is both feared and loved, even by Twyin, making any attempt at true rebellion after the Greyjoys pointless. But he is in an abyss of self loathing and hedonism, particularly in the last years of his reign, clearly depressed; he hates to be king not for the crown itself, but because he thought it would have given him some relief from what he thinks his failures are, and he discovers that not even that is enough to run away from himself.
@@danielsantiagourtado3430 king arthur is more like the real core of game of thrones
@@giuseppeanoardi3973Robert is unfit to be king,thats the whole point of the character,he was a great warrior and super charismatic wich united people but being a war hero doesnt mean you will be a great king.
Robert reign while it looked great on the surface,because Jon Arryn was hand,there were lots of tourneys and feasts,and it was during a long summer,it was plagued by corruption,crippling amounts of debt for the crown,and in the end it also resulted in a civil war and many people in the books think that Aerys was a better king than Robert for most of its reign before he went totally mad.
Robert was the way he is shown before even becoming King,it just got worse.
he did say he wanted to leave the kingdoms and his rule behind and become a sellsword king in essos, something like "the songs they'd write about the sellsword king"
It's hinted at multiple times through the show but this scene really hammers it home: Varys, Tywin, Pycelle, they're all wrong. King Robert was neither a complete moron, nor was he indifferent to the realm he governed. He did drown his sorrow over Lyanna stark in wine and whores, but that didn't make him dull or unobservant in any way.
I think he actually realised pretty early in his reign that the realm was critically unstable and him defeating Aerys didn't solve the underlying issue of the increasing tensions between the noble houses of Westeros. My theory is that he barely governed on purpose, thinking that letting every lord do their own thing largely unchecked is the best way to avoid stepping on anybodys toes and causing yet another rebellion or civil war.
When he talks to Cersei about the unity of a potential Dothraki invasion he actually reveals that he's well aware that his own crown is hanging by a thread and he has next to no real support outside the capital. So his strategy was to take the target off his back by ceding responsibility, delegating nearly all power to the small council and the local lords.
that's an idea.
its really sad that this was the only scene that actually shows what you just said...
I very much like this idea for at least how the show conveys Robert. The more times I've read ASOIAF, the more I question whether he was truly just a great soldier... but I love how the show painted such a different character that definitely could meet your portrayal.
And truly an example of the tragedy of how D&D knew how to write once upon a time.
I can see that
@@a.p.2019they’re mid at adapting. But remember grrm was very active in the writing of the 1st 2nd seasons less so later on.
(Writers room thing i mean0
Scenes like this prove that D&D can write. It demonstrates they understand the characters and can write diagolgue/scenes that are on par with GRRM. That's why it is absolutely maddening how the show went off the rails. I hope some day we get a tell-all book or documentary that tells us exactly how it broke down.
they occasionally had a good scene, but they had a great deal more f-ups with their original additions/alterations than wins.
it just became totally obvious once they passed the books
D&D were showrunners. They get the credit, but not necessarily involved in the scenes themselves. The Director and Producers craft the scenes. If you watch the credits youll see in those episdodes who craft the scenes. Compare those credits to later episodes. Youll see D&D being producers and writers then, but NOT in earlier seasons.
It's because they were really good at translating the books to the show.
When they passed the books, they didn't have a source material to work from and just kinda waddled forward.
@@tomwhitworth1560 they willingly refused to adapt stuff from the last two books, the "run out of books" for anything pre season 6 is horseshit/false.
I'm not pissed toward you, but toward the excuse.
@@fandemusique4693They could've easily gotten 3-4 seasons out of Feast and Dance, and instead they basically crammed it all into 1 season and skipped most stuff.
Great analysis
I believe Peter Dinklage says it best, "We're heavy on the characters, light on the dragons"
Ironic how the more dragons played a part in the story, the worse the writing became
@daustin8888 Very true lol 😂
@daustin8888 Correlation doesn't equal causation. And that's not irony.
@ Yeah, it isn't irony, nor does it prove any correlation between the two, but come on, you got what he was trying to say
@YusufAli-zy8zesomeone should try harder
Really glad to see someone cover this scene. It was the first time GoT really wowed me. I watched the show before reading the books so I didn't even know the full story behind Lyanna and Robert but Mark Addy's acting here really sold it so well.
The bits with Robert's memory make me think he is either consciously or unconsciously trying to forget her. Similar to the "How drunk is drunk enough" scene in The Legend of Bagger Vance. Robert has a great memory for hundreds of things he doesn't want to remember. Tragically or maybe it's his own mind protecting him, he can't clearly remember her.
That scene from Bagger Vance still sticks with me all these years later
I took it as a sign that Robert was unreasonably infatuated with someone he didn't really know. Could make sense given we already know Lyanna didn't even want him.
Remembering things you don’t want to and not remembering things you do is a common curse of warriors.
For some reason our brains hold onto the horror and let go of more pleasant things
As a married women, that scene, where they are talking frankly with each other, was very real and damn, almost made me cry for both characters.
I like to imagine what the seven kingdoms would look like if Cersei and Robert loved each other and wasn't compromised by Robert's delusions.
I think, with Robert, the idea of marrying lyanna was more the idea of being Ned's brother by marriage.
She was perfect, because she was Ned's sister, and the means by which their families could be united. In that sense, she was 'perfect'.
But again, this just shows how deep in delusion Robert allowed himself to be in.
I think you’re very close to the truth, Lyanna represents a time in Robert’s life, his youth, his peak, his boldness, and of course being brothers with Ned.
@@anon2427 Yes, it plays into the idea that his love for Lyanna wasn't actually about her, but about how he dreamed it could have been and of better days. It was a perfect love because it was never tested by an actual marriage. I think Robert's love for Ned, and even for John Aryyn, were his strongest positive feelings.
You dont get this delusional over a political match. Lyanna was the girl in his head. Sharp. Boyish. Capable. Despite never really getting to know her, the idea of her slipped into Robert's fantasy of THE girl, that every man has whether they're conscious of it or not.
Wow, such an exceptional video! I think this scene is proof that you don’t need dragons or epic battles for Game of Thrones to be amazing. The real battles are fought with words. Just two people at a table, tearing each other apart with simple truths. And that line-"I can't even remember her face"? It’s like a knife to the gut. But I want to say, I never noticed how it’s such a contradiction: he remembers every little detail of battles but can’t remember Lyanna’s face. That hits so hard. It makes him so tragic-stuck chasing a fantasy of what could’ve been-while Cersei’s just stuck in the reality of what never was. It’s heartbreaking for both of them in completely different ways. This made me want to go back and rewatch the whole show... well, at least the good seasons 😉
I will never rewatch this show, lol. Season 7 and 8 were so terrible that they are basically unwatchable.
He was stuck chasing a fantasy that would never work out, causing the downfall of a house mostly because he had his heart broken. I don’t think Ned ever wanted all the Targs dead. Robert went crazy for love.
I have seen a lot analysis on that scene but this one is such a refreshing take! Amazing video!!
Ned and Robert were the MVPs of the show's first season. It just wasn't as good once they were out of the picture :(
This scene is just *UPSETTINGLY* well-written. It shows that they had the full capability to truly understand and showcase the characters and story, while being flexible with book canon or even diverging entirely, and they just flat chose to be bad on purpose later.
the only reason this scene exists is that they missed a few minutes of footage for that epiosode and because most of the cast was already in holidays they had to come up with something to fill those minutes with the cast they had at hand... nonetheless its well written.
@@mehmetfatihyilmaz1641 Damn, I bet you could hear me sighing deeply all the way from here. Yeah, that sounds about right for what I know of D&D. Thanks for the info.
@@thefairybug40 it's in the book of James Hibbert called "fire cannot kill a dragon". I would really recommend it, since it gives a lot of background information about the show.
The problem is - GRRM never finished the story. If he had, I doubt D&D would have ended it as they had. More to the point, GRRM has crafted a story that he himself CANNOT finish. What the story needs is a classic high fantasy finish, but GRRM can't bring himself to do it. It's why it's not done yet, and will never be done since GRRM only wants to subvert high fantasy, not resort to it. He crafted a story where John should be the king and the answer to the prophecy, but in turn, doesn't want it to be John.
There's no way D&D could ever ended the show correctly.
@@jakedunnegan D&D were entirely at fault for their ending, they completley ignored *Corn* everything from AFFC and ADWD, and in the books it is very *Snow* clear that John and Dany are the prophesised heros. D&D were the ones who decided the long *King* night should be one night of battle, *Snow* and that Arya kills the Night King. John can still be the prophesised hero and not become *Corn* king. In my opinion the true hero of ASOIAF shouldn't save the *King* world and then mount the seat of *Snow* power of a fuedal system that has relentlessly held the world in a cycle of violence. I do agree though that George has created a story he can't finish but I still have hope for TWOW. (Ignore Mormonts raven it keeps talking about King Snow and corn or something, maybe John will become corn king!?) *Corn*
1:00 I think that’s the worst thing about the latter seasons. THEY ARE GOOD WRITERS. They just wanted to speed run onto the next thing
Nailed it, friend
They may be decent writers but they can never be forgiven for not carrying the show into the end zone. It really doesn’t matter the reason because they could have handed the show off to knew showrunners if they wanted to leave.
They are not to be trusted.
They are good when they have materials to work off of--just like ChatGPT summarizing with no originality. But once the material was gone they were lost in the wilderness.
Mark Addy performance is above and beyond any award. My favorite scene of all time. Also music in that scene is brilliant. Thank you for covering this.
He was so compelling. Whatever we say about the last seasons, the casting on the show was absolutely brilliant, even smaller characters were often so charismatic - Syrio Forrell was barely even there and he stole his scenes, the Faceless Man too... Mark Addy was one of the highlights among a stellar cast.
@@AW-uv3cb I agree, I think Addy as Robert steals every scene in first season. Delivery of "Someone took her away from me, and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind.", and "She should be on a hill, somewhere with the sun and the clouds above her." is really special. I think one day somebody will make a video essay and analise.
The war stories scene was another great Robert moment. Also not in the books.
almost makes you forget that almost every part of that scene spits on book canon.
@@josephbulkin9222
It’s been a while since I watched the scene. What part breaks canon?
@@realdaggerman105 Tarlys at Summerhall. Robert's first kill being at Gulltown, not Summerhall.Jaime telling Robert anything about Aerys.
Don´t forget Bessie and her tits... Or was she in books?
Martin retcons his story
Robert was played flawlessly. This scene shows that he wasnt the drunken oaf we were led to believe he was. This scene really sold me the series. Everyone can relate to it. I know ive lived it to a degree.
Gonna have to disagree with one thing. Robert might not have been a fool, but he sure did do a lot of foolish things.
He did not take part in raising his heir, he did not take part in ruling his Kingdom and let it fall into debt and never taught his Squire what a breastplate stretcher was.
Robert lacked the strength of character to be king. Even if he could see bad things happening around him it meant nothing if he couldn't apply himself to get it solved.
The first seasons were co-written by martin alongside with d&d, he left in season 3 or 4 I seem to recall.
I can totally see him being wise, able and aware enough to put all of these things together writing this dialogue
They weren't co-written, just authorised by him. He looked over the scripts and had formal input on everything. But all his power was ceremonial. HBO often ignored him or just didn't ask. D&D was the only way a lot of GRRMs' ideas were implemented because they had a great working relationship with him. If he had co-written it, they wouldn't have cut so many characters.
This might have also been the situation with Airbender and Korra. The Chud King E;R has great Avatar videos.
You have no idea how happy I am to see this. I've always felt, since the first time I saw this scene, that it was not only one of my all time favorite scenes in the show, but that it also perfectly encapsulates exactly what it was about seasons 1-4 that made this show such a masterpiece (or the first half of it at least).
It's so rare to see Hollywood blockbusters making an attempt to actually fully humanize their characters and show that they're more than just one-dimensional caricatures with one or two defining attributes that make up the entirety of their personality, but instead actually have complex, contradictory, and unexpectedly sympathetic sides to them... you know, like real humans do.
Taking a drunk, incompetent king and showing you that underneath his escapism he's actually a deeply intelligent, thoughtful, and emotionally damaged man, or taking his sociopath, hateful wife and showing you that there used to be a hopeful, joyous side to her that got buried under the weight of decades of pain and trauma. I think people tend to be uncomfortable having to confront the sympathetic side of characters they're meant to hate and root against, which is a shame, because it's so crucially important for people to be able to take that uncomfortable view of humanity and recognize that even their enemies deserve some measure of compassion and understanding.
Anyway, this was the scene that elevated GoT from a wonderfully done, surprisingly high quality fantasy show to a masterpiece, at least for me. Great video, and thanks for sharing.
Things would be dark if Robert had gotten what he wanted. Imagine: he gets to marry Lyanna, Lyanna's still in love with Rhaegar, their relationship totally fails to live up to his dreams, Robert abuses Lyanna the way he abuses Cersei, Ned feels he has to step in to protect his sister against his king
0:28 Small room?????
🩸🏰🤺
Right?😂
Discovered you by pure chance. But this was a great perception. Your ability to perceive such details and connect them to the context is amazing. This was a heartwarming video. And a true reminder to many aspects of human nature we can probably never fully overcome, such as clinging to our own expectations and projections while the reality itself is different.
The layers in this scene are INSANE! D&D caught so much hate (deserved for s8 lets be real) but they absolutely killed it with this original scene. I hate it when people say early GOT was only good because it followed the books. This scene proves otherwise. Like if you're reading this in 2025 and somehow haven't watched GOT (how??), this kind of writing is why you need to start from S1. No notes, absolutely perfect video essay.
this scene follows pretty well with the books, even if it wasn't *in* the books
they had a lot of original scenes that sucked -- especially compared to *amazing* scenes from the books that they omitted.
It’s because they respect the source material deeply when they add their own scenes, whilst some cinema writers don’t, like Star Wars for example. D&D failed in the last season because they rushed it, wanting to finish it earlier to start different projects (which ironically didn’t get to happen anyway)
Absolutely fantastic video!!!! I loved this scene so much, just so many subtleties, and so much was important.
This is my favorite scene in the entire series and your analysis is spot on.
Hey, love this video you should do a video on Cersei talking with Oberyn Because it’s another one of those scenes where she drops the façade for some seconds, and then catches herself. There’s also something else that she does when she catches herself in a situation where her emotions might show and that is, she purposefully breaks eye contact first. She does it in this scene with Robert who, as you said is not as stupid as everyone believes him to be and has a knack for seeing people when he is looking for something. Oberyn and her conversation was pretty much built to break her façade with them talking about their children.
100% agreed with you. Early show is filled with original scenes that add A LOT.
I would argue (and GRRM agrees) Rob's wife is better in the show than books.
the books add layers until it reveals to be a stupid king arthur fanfic
I didn't remember this scene. It's great that you chose to highlight it. It is indeed very well done.
Lovely video. I’ve been rewatching Game of Thrones recently and my goal is to make note of things I didn’t find during my first watch. This video really puts it into perspective of how I’d like to be better at analyzing. Thank you, Valaritas.
Dude. Duuuuuude. This was fantastic and so well analyzed. I'd never looked into the depth of this scene like that.
00:59, i think part of the reason they get so much hate is that this scene, the Catelyn and Talisa scene in the riverlands, and a few more shows us they are more than capable of making their own original content that fit the world a story so well, its just that they didn't care by the end and wanted to get it over with but also didn't want anyone else's name on their baby.
It is sad to say, but I doubt that other people as well as actors cared much more. The show had become a big part of their lives, too big. Kit Harington had to deal with serious issues as a result of losing his privacy and everyone taking part in the show had carried similar pressure and weight on their shoulders for too long. I assume they truly wanted the show to be over at the end despite being unsatisfied with the ending. So I don't blame anyone really for how the show ended, they are all just people after all.
Just blew my mind!! What can I say, there are a lot of great observations here but these are my favorites: 5:25 and 7:34. This video made me appreciate the scene and D&D even more... I don't know how they messed up with last couple of seasons. They are clearly great writers...
Very insightful! Thanks, I'll be watching for more from you.
Glad someone covered this scene. This and Robert's war talk are my favourite scenes involving Robert and giving us insight into his mind that we don't get in the first book. Sometimes I wish characters like Robert and Tywin were POV characters in the books so we could explore their thoughts and feelings but alas they aren't.
This is what I call great UA-cam content. Thank you
great analysis!! keep up with your good work!
Cersei was not only sidelined for a dead woman, she was sidelined for that woman when said woman was alive too.
Cersei thought she was going to marry Rhaegar and I do believe she witnessed the blue roses 'incident'.
Imagine how she feels that she cannot kill Lyanna ...
Keep up the good work! Love your content ❤❤❤❤
Its been a long time since iv gave the show any props. I owe it alot. And iv just found my self as a "book snob" lol. Great vid. Subbed.
Fantastic analysis, I’ll remember this one for a long time thank you
Robert never loved Lyanna Stark, he loved the idea idea of her, he wanted her, lusted for her, but he didn't love her and when Rhaegar took her away because she loved him and he loved her, though no one knew, that angered Robert because she wouldn't be his now. Robert is a well written tragic character, he's not a good person, he's just a person, flaws and all.
I noticed after reading the books that the show also changed the dynamic between Tyrion and Twyin somewhat. For example, Tywin didn’t want Tyrion fighting in the Vanguard but he wouldn’t admit it was out of any love for him. Compared to the show where he tells him he has to fight in the Vanguard. I got the feeling from the book that Tywin does love Tyrion and hates himself for it but it’s not as obvious in the show.
Never ignore or dismiss the beauty of the physical acting involved in the early seasons of this show. Cersei's gulps and facial ticks in this scene alone portray a lot of what she's feeling in the moment.
Edit: Robert's "love" for Lyanna is the sane as Snape's for Lily. It's obsession. And, perhaps, the worship of someone who both men believe can make them better people without them actually trying to be better.
Beautifully crafted, both the scene and the breakdown.
That was one of the best scenes of the entire show. King Robert showed us why he deserved to be consider a great leader. And there's the similarities between King Robert and King Robb, both were murdered because of love but before their deaths we saw their great Martial prowess/tactical minds. Cersei was always evil, so her actions were inevitable. It was rumoured she murdered her friend as a kid after speaking to Maggy the Frog and being told her future.
It always amused me how the Lyanna Stark we saw looks like Daenerys Targaryen. King Robert loved Lyanna and wanted to kill Dany, Jon Snow/Aegon Targaryen was Lyanna's son and nephew/lover of Dany....
I don't think it's fair to say Cersei was just evil. She never intended for Ned to be executed and she loved her family...except Tyrion. The only times she acted reprehensibly was because someone had harmed her family or to prevent harm from coming to her family. If you think Cersei was evil because she did what she had to do to keep her family in power, then did you view Margery in the same light? I loved Margery's character and she probably would have done more for the "small folk" then Cersei but she groomed Cersei's last surviving child and taunted Cersei with it which in hindsight is really gross/disturbing.
@ “Maggy also warns that Melara will die very soon, and true enough, she drowns in a well shortly after.” Cersei is likely to have murdered Melara Hetherspoon when they were young so she was always evil.
@@taureansynner6993 but killing someone isn’t the sole measure of evil. Cersei wasn’t a good character and many times she wasn’t a likeable character but her actions were to protect herself and her loved ones. If killing someone indicates evil, then almost all of the characters on the show were evil. The most selfless character on the show, Jon, killed a fan favorite but you wouldn’t call him evil.
@@T2MARA But killing someone when they don’t pose a threat is evil…
One of the greatest analysis I've ever seen, amazing job!!
Good analysis connecting the "remember every face" of people he killed and tying it to that scene. I never realized Cersei was talking bc she knew she would kill him
Mark Addy, you, sir, is a underestimated and undervalued genius. We love you!
Beautiful video, all the way around. Top notch.
nice analysis- now I have to go back and rewatch this .
A well versed character breakdown of Cersei.
I’d never considered that Cersei was only asking about Lyanna because she knew she’d kill Robert soon so she wanted some type of closure. So interesting and it makes sense!
Congratulations for this monologue, I loved your presentation
I feel it was the quiet conversations between two individuals that was the backbone of GoT. When two great characters came together it was so juicy. And then there was Hodor 💔
That was my favorite scene in season 1. It was beautiful. Like, a perfect perspective showing done like a bad exposition dump. Yet, it is masterful because while it does give you the knowledge you need, it shows you that through the two people at the top, and how shocked they are about how it has made them feel versus their expectations.
I’ve always felt the most heartbreaking thing about that line of 7 kingdoms not being enough was the fact he was saying it to his “wife”… imagine how neglected that must make a person feel when your significant other doesn’t realize the person he is saying this to is supposed to be the one who fills that void.
Two first class actors, acting with and reacting to each other brilliantly
Great vid, I never thought about how she had already decided to kill Robert by the time this scene occurred.
These are some of my favorite scenes.
They could have happened in the book. We just never saw them.
First of all, great job, lots of moments gave me the chills. Game of thrones dialogues are sometimes so good, that it just makes you drunk by just listening and makes you unable to perceive every details. This video ( for me ) correct that phenomenon. I loved that scene, now, I loved it even more, admire it even.
And makes me frustrated by knowing it was made by the same two guys rushed the final two seasons for their own agenda/career, making got a marvel kind of cinematics
Great analysis! Perfect video length as well.
i am rewatching the show and that scene gets me every time. the intimacy and the humanity... and none of that matters in the end because they are still puppets dancing on the strings of their parents....
I remember when game of thrones was a new little show on HBO. I had never heard of A Song of Ice and Fire. I would try to convince my friends that the quite scenes. The scenes with two people walking down a corridor are so much more powerful than any ice zombies or dragons. Good times.
I love this scene! Great analysis and I miss the time of my life when game of thrones was new ❤
The thing i remember most about that scene was that robert at least understands that they are kings and queens of the seven kingdoms only as long as the people say they are. They may be rich and powerful but they have to at least pretend to care. As soon as robert mentioned the common people she no longer cared.
Imagine being an actor who is remembered for being one of the most beloved characters in the most beloved season of one of the greatest shows ever.
is 3am and this hits deep, subscribed
"Start the Joust before i piss meself" - King Robert
this was excellent. brilliant insight, well argued.
This scene convinced me that my suspicion that Gendry was Cersei's black haired baby that was taken from her was accurate. Now it seems that baby was a lie in the books. Gendry's memories of his mother fit, too.
have not heard of this before, can you explain more?
The way Cersei talks about her black-haired baby boy makes it sound like he died as a newborn; Gendry wouldn't have been able to remember his blonde-haired mother at that young of an age.
Yoren's speech of how he came to the wall; interestlingly, he had trouble remembering faces too
It can be a real joy to have a character revealed rather than shown. We don't need to see a flashback to a younger Cersi in love with Robert. It hits deep when we think she always hated this marriage of convenience but she tells us she loved him. She thought he was amazing and she was lucky to have him. Let the viewers imagination fill in the story of a girl in love growing angry and despondent with a husband still in love with a ghost.
BobbyB's and Ned's relationship is THE best part of the show. The amount of brotherly love, trust, and respect is just inspiring. I always find it so wonderful how Ned lowers his ever-so-serious posture only when with BB.
Credits to the two extremely talented actors of the scene.
One of the greatest tragedies is that Robert didn't really want to be king any more than Cersei wanted to be his wife; they both felt trapped. Imagine a world where Robert brought in Jayme and the three of them discussed how to abdicate the Iron Throne. Robert fakes his death with the help of Varys and Littlefinger, anoints Cersei as queen regent with the Lannisters in charge, and quietly slips away into retirement as a mercenary, perhaps with Barriston Selmy as his guardian. He gets to go back to being a simple fighting man and everyone else gets to play their Game of Thrones. But then...you wouldn't have a season 1 dramatic arc.
My favorite scenes of the entire series
The actor playing Robert really kills it in season 1. And he has tremendous impact on the season and the rest of the show
This was one of the best adaptations of a book to tv that I had ever seen. Right up until they ran out of source material.
The quote in the end was chilling.
Before this scene I was still hesitant about if I liked this series or not. After watching it, I was sold. I loved the sincerity they both talk to each other. It was surprising and amazing.
I loved that scene, even without noticing some of the subtlety.
Mark Addy’s performances were Oscar worthy, this was before the huge budgets of later series and the growing popularity. He wasn’t in it for long, but had a big impact in my view setting the series up for future success. Not talked about enough.
Just finished the first book of the SoI&F & it’s interesting to see all the scenes that weren’t in the book but played so well in the show. You know immediately which scenes fall into which category by who’s in the scene. GRRM writes from multiple perspectives, not standard Chapter format. If nobody in the scene in a written perspective, that scene is impossible in the book. As neither Robert nor Cersei are a written perspective, you immediately know this scene is impossible in the novel.
The way Cersei just stands there when Robert tells her he can't remember his true love's face anymore, you can just tell she's putting herself at his place, wondering if she'd forget about Jaime's face eventually if she lost him
I wonder if Robert has to keep telling himself he did it for Lyanna, otherwise it really was just an excuse to usurp the throne. It would explain why he doesn't remember her face and why he gets riled up, even after all those years; he hasn't processed what's happened, what he is; the usurper.
Brilliant video. Subbed instantly.
I loved this scene! I enjoy spotting the differences between book and show, and while the books show a richer detail of the world and it’s inhabitants, it did lack some of the intimate conversations between characters not in the spotlight of the chapters within.
Robert and Ned could've stopped everything. One was a drunken fool while the other let his honor get him killed like one.
I always thought she asks him if he ever felt anything for her because she’s waiting for some kind of answer that makes her change her mind about killing him. I suppose I was wrong.
Great analysis. Greetings from Spain.
The "chaos is a ladder scene between Littlefinger and Varys is also a masterpiece of storytelling that GRRM did not write.
The problem wasn't that D&D were bad writers, they could clearly write good original material. The problem is they didn't care to continue on with the show, they wanted it wrapped up ASAP after like season 6. A better solution would've been to hand it off to someone like Ryan J. Condal who could give it a proper 10 season run like HBO and George initially wanted
Good analysis 😊
Excellent analysis of this scene
Robert is in fact a rather compelling character. Yes, he is a man of impulsive nature who drowns his sorrow in wine and other indulgence. But in my opinion, he was well aware of the direction the realm was heading into from the first days of his rule and that deep down, he knew he could't stop it. Taking a look again at his behaviour or his with Ned, this makes sense. That kind of powerlessness had reduced the man he once was to what we saw in this scene.
Robert Baratheon was always a character that captured me above the others, exactly because of this duality, but I believe that GRRM had to leave the character not so humanized, so that other cores and plots become the culmination that forms in the first book, the The fact that I'm fascinated anyway is because I see in him parallels of the fallen hero, something that Martin is the best at writing and developing, and he would perfect this in Jaime Lannister, but in the series in this scene and in the others added by D&D they finally and carefully arrived at this, Robert is just like Jaime, the harsh reality of his actions, desires, dreams and expectations, he had enormous talent as a leader, military commander and warrior, and achieved comparable success only, I think of Aegon Conqueror, but even so he found himself with nothing, completely empty, one of his best phrases is "I killed Rhaegar that day, but he was the one who won, because he is dead with my Lyanna" something similar to that, he fought for everything but didn't feel complete with anything, especially since I always interpreted his death, his lifestyle, close to the events of the book as a real slow suicide attempt and his own strange death against the boar, nothing more for me than a portrait of that, a direct suicide or even a last card against the "enemy", something he always had pleasure and success in, but in the end he didn't, thus finally giving him the rest he wanted , until when he achieved final success, he failed.