Heavy Obscurement - Deep Dive Series - D&D 5e

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  • Опубліковано 3 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 79

  • @TheKirbstah
    @TheKirbstah 3 роки тому +28

    This channel has so much heart and effort poured into it, can't wait until you become one of the big D&D UA-camrs!

  • @edsiefker1301
    @edsiefker1301 3 роки тому +12

    Eversmoking bottle is at will fog cloud without concentration or attunement? Holy crap.

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +6

      And it MOVES!!! So SO good. Like, worth building your character around good. A lot of campaigns are "start with one uncommon item of your choice" and this one is a KILLER and sneaky option. And, again, uncommon items should be fairly available and cheapish (500gp or so) in most campaigns with any kind of big cities with "realistic" market economies.

    • @jeffdietz630
      @jeffdietz630 3 роки тому +3

      Familiar bat carrying a lit small torch. Mobilizing your AoE non concentration pyrotechnics smoke source. Excellent video.

    • @guardian_of_the_rune
      @guardian_of_the_rune 3 роки тому +2

      @@Bilbrons-and-Dragons But does it actually move? When you use an action to remove the stopper, a cloud of thick smoke pours out in a 60-foot radius from the bottle. The cloud's area is heavily obscured. EACH MINUTE THE BOTTLE REMAINS OPEN AND WITHIN THE CLOUD, the radius increases by 10 feet until it reaches its maximum radius of 120 feet.
      I mean even if it doesn't move the no concentration and huge starting size makes it an amazing uncommon item. I'm definitely going to beg my DM for one.

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      @@guardian_of_the_rune Just close it and open it again if you leave the original AOE. Use your and your familiar's IWO.

  • @weaselwolf
    @weaselwolf 2 роки тому +4

    I had a 'bad guy game' character with a staff of swarming insects, such a great item and that obscurement was great. He was a firbolg death cleric obsessed with plagues, so it works well with his theme

  • @alanschaub147
    @alanschaub147 3 роки тому +5

    Adelina is so confident! 👍🏻

  • @jeffdietz630
    @jeffdietz630 3 роки тому +2

    If there was one video that is a must see in your portfolio, this one is it.

  • @cascadianone
    @cascadianone Рік тому +1

    This is an excellent video. I really appreciate the time and attention spent for such comprehensive and detailed analysis.

  • @chrisw3024
    @chrisw3024 3 роки тому +5

    Really nice video. Very helpful content on a topic not often examined in such depth. Thanks!
    Also, how the heck are you putting out videos at this rate with such decent content?!?

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +2

      Now that I have the system down, it's pretty easy. Just like 2-4 hours per day for substantial ones. Like 1 hour or less for the fluff Segue Series ones. D&D has so much content to cover that it's easy to come up with topics!

  • @daschwick6676
    @daschwick6676 Рік тому

    Thank you so much for putting Pyrotechnics on my radar!
    I'm outfitting my Order of Scribes wizard with a hooded lantern because of this advice!
    I plan to use Pyrotechnics (Action) plus Manifest Mind (Bonus Action) to let my wizard hide in the smoke while firing off key spells. If your DM is really nit-picky, you can use your free interaction to lift the hood of the lantern so you can see the flame.
    I think the most potent use of this is to prevent use of Counterspell against you, while maintaining your own ability to Counterspell.
    I noticed that Manifest Mind transmits its hearing and sight telepathically and without requiring an action - and you aren't blinded or deafened to your own surroundings.
    As I interpret this-- you simultaneously have your own vision and sight, as well as that of your Manifest Mind. By extension, if you meet the range and other requirements (not silenced, e.g.), you can use counterspell while in Pyrotechnics if your Manifest Mind can see the target casting the spell, because you can also see the target casting the spell using your supplemented senses.
    Note -- this isn't limited by the "on your turn" requirement for casting a spell through your Manifest Mind, as you are not casting this spell through your Manifest Mind (it is only supplementing your own senses).

  • @arcanavoresmanavault2637
    @arcanavoresmanavault2637 2 роки тому +1

    Thanks again Billbron!

  • @horbi3683
    @horbi3683 3 роки тому +1

    Very nice deep dive, thank you! On the smoke sticks from Pathfinder: there is an NPC in the module Baldur's Gate: Decent into Avernus called Amrik Vanthampur. He's got a "Smoke Bomb" which might be what you were looking for. If he has it, I would guess one can buy it as well.

  • @Domina7ion
    @Domina7ion 3 роки тому +1

    Had not realised how good Alert is - I just focused on the +5 to initiative. It makes fog cloud and sleet storm even better

    • @jeffdietz630
      @jeffdietz630 3 роки тому

      Particularly if unable/unwilling to get blindfight style.

  • @jasonbrown6604
    @jasonbrown6604 3 роки тому +1

    Great video! I have an arcane trickster that uses eversmoking bottle and this video is his bread and butter! I learned some new stuff too!

  • @jeffreyblackwell1444
    @jeffreyblackwell1444 Рік тому

    I love the heavy obscurement tactics.... my party usually hates it as they do not want to buy into the team tactic as it interferes with their build or never thought about it in character generation.

  • @deanofett
    @deanofett 3 роки тому +2

    Good video, I have been thinking about this tactic for a while. Might mess with my players a bit, got a group of enemy spellcasters I wana make seem both smart and a legit threat, so this is a nice resource for that.

  • @Zaknyfein
    @Zaknyfein 2 місяці тому

    This was a VERY useful video, thank you!

  • @aidanmundell4501
    @aidanmundell4501 3 роки тому +1

    Another obscure way to leverage the obscurement is available to beastmaster rangers- continuously Ritual casting beastbond on a companion with blindsight, although it requires concentration so best used with the eversmoking bottle.
    Although I suppose the blindfighting style made this pretty obsolete lol

  • @mikegilkey
    @mikegilkey Рік тому

    I hope you know how good your channel is!

  • @diegobologni3724
    @diegobologni3724 2 роки тому

    Beautiful video. By level 10 my sorlock will have devil's sight and the feats gunner and fighting initiate blindfight, and the spells fog cloud and darkness

  • @zufinfluby
    @zufinfluby Рік тому

    Thank you for all the great videos
    It'd be really cute to switch roles sometime, either switch character, or just switch lines.

  • @chopcooey
    @chopcooey 3 роки тому +5

    sometimes the obscurement mechanics create some pretty aberrant situations. Like the archer at 300 ft with disadvantage does not has disadvantage anymore because the target is heavily obscured and therefore advantages/disadvantages cancel.

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      I honestly think the 5e take on obscurement is really weird, and it took me several actual game sessions to get it figured out. It definitely leads to odd scenarios like you present!

  • @FlCl3000
    @FlCl3000 2 роки тому

    Going into an “anti drow” centric campaign every single player in my party took devil sight (most through eldritch adept and one party warlock)
    The dm was so excited for darkness shenanigans and we just wanna kill elves
    Obscurement is so strong

  • @imbetterthanyoubyfar
    @imbetterthanyoubyfar 3 роки тому +4

    Honestly, I feel like the biggest issue with heavy obscurement has to do with teammates. Whether you're at an optimised or unoptimised table, it's bound to clash with party strats. While it's always a good idea to throw up a fog cloud in a pack of wolves or something, this may anger the polearm master, and as much as it obstructs enemy spellcasting, it affects friendly spells to a (notably lessor) degree.

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      Obscurement affects teammates if you're a front line guy using it offensively, but it rarely is an issue for a backline caster/ranged character. Having an obscurement effect with a small AOE can be fantastic for that, like a Darkness or even a Silent/Major image in like a 10' cube.

    • @imbetterthanyoubyfar
      @imbetterthanyoubyfar 3 роки тому +1

      @@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Hm, yeah, I can see it working better in the backline; I'm so offensively-minded that even the defensive applications i was thinking of were on the enemies!
      that said, if it's for personal defensive purposes, we're probably doing it to protect our concentration, and we're probably better off with mold earth and going prone, or minor illusion (of mold earth), or something.

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      @@imbetterthanyoubyfar I love going prone behind cover! But I have to say, I don't think Mold Earth is capable of that. It would be lovely if a cantrip could reliably create total cover like the Conjuror 2nd level ability, or the 2nd level Rope Trick spell, or the 4th level Stone Shape spell, but I don't think it can. "Loose dirt" implies to me dirt that can be moved with hands and not a shovel. If you need a shovel, then it's "packed dirt" and not "loose dirt" and thus Mold Earth wouldn't work. But obviously if your DM is cool with overpowered cantrips, you should take full advantage!

    • @imbetterthanyoubyfar
      @imbetterthanyoubyfar 3 роки тому +1

      @@Bilbrons-and-Dragons One trick I've been taking advantage of myself in one of my campaigns is to use Shape Water to turn some water opaque-gray out of combat, have an unseen servant pour it out in front of me as a bonus action in combat, then freeze it. I could also freeze it while it's still in the cauldron I carry it around in, but that lacks style points, and I really like hopping into the cauldron to have my servants drag me away to move without forcing attacks of opportunity.

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому

      @@imbetterthanyoubyfar LOL, that's hilarious!

  • @kenscott1082
    @kenscott1082 3 місяці тому

    Those lists are very helpful.

  • @jeffreyblackwell1444
    @jeffreyblackwell1444 2 роки тому

    there is a magical item that my druid uses called Ring of Obscurement provides up to 3 fog cloud spells at first level without a concentration and 1 minute duration per day recharges 1d3 i think

  • @hawkname1234
    @hawkname1234 3 роки тому +1

    I houserule that when both are obscured, both have disadvantage to attack. That prevents some of the stupidness.

    • @1979ce
      @1979ce 2 роки тому +1

      If I know where you are but you can't see me to defend yourself, why should I get disadvantage? I am hitting a creature that isn't defending itself. That seems easy.

  • @OdinsFerrari2178
    @OdinsFerrari2178 2 роки тому

    Thanks!

  • @ChrisGeisel5000
    @ChrisGeisel5000 2 роки тому +1

    I didn't understand why spells that require an attack roll aren't affected by obscurement. Can you explain why (or link to a spot in the video where you mentioned it but I missed it)?

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  2 роки тому

      Spells requiring an attack roll are made at advantage if the target can't see you, but at disadvantage if you can't see the target, so those cancel out for a normal roll.

  • @kodry9235
    @kodry9235 3 роки тому +1

    Great video. I have some questions regarding combat using the darkness spell.
    I am a warlock with devil sight. Different scenarios:
    1- I am inside the darkness spell. Enemies that can’t see through it are outside, so, they can’t see me and I can see them. Do I have advantage when attacking from inside the darkness with ranged spells/attacks?
    2- Fighting enemies with keen senses: how do you manage that? They still can’t see me but can locate me. Do you make perception checks for the enemies? If you do, what would be the threshold they need to surpass in order to locate me successfully?
    Thanks

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      1. Yes, if you can see them and they can't see you, your Attacks are at advantage (and you're attacked at disadvantage)
      2. RAW, any enemy knows your location (even while Heavily Obscured) if you don't make a Hide check. All creatures use their Passive Perception to notice things unless they actively use the Search Action (and can then roll Perception/Investigation).

    • @kodry9235
      @kodry9235 3 роки тому +1

      @@Bilbrons-and-Dragons thank you!

    • @woutvanostaden1299
      @woutvanostaden1299 Рік тому +1

      ​@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Them being unable to find you makes bonus action hide even more useful, so if you don't want to dip rogue, going goblin is great, right?

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  Рік тому

      Yeah, I think Goblin is a top 5 Race for that BA Hide/Disengage! @@woutvanostaden1299

  • @keelsron634
    @keelsron634 2 роки тому +1

    My understanding is dark vision stats you to see through darkness and devil sight stats you can see through darkness both magical and non magical whats not to get? People will think dark vision means all kinds of darkness but it would stat both if that were true.

  • @alanschaub147
    @alanschaub147 3 роки тому +2

    Could you even read a scroll in an area of heavy obscurement?
    📜 👀

    • @alanschaub147
      @alanschaub147 3 роки тому

      Glyph of Warding cannot be moved, right?

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      Doubt it, lol.

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      @@alanschaub147 There is some question as to whether the space inside a Bag of Holding "moves" per se, so some DMs will allow it. Other options are Demiplane and Genielock Bottled Respite.

    • @alanschaub147
      @alanschaub147 3 роки тому +1

      @@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I am making a Genie Warlock now. I would a video on good builds and creative uses of features.
      Your use of familiar with Rope Trick is genius!

  • @alanschaub147
    @alanschaub147 3 роки тому

    Is there a video going over your Bilbron Bafflestone character, including his build and how you play him?

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +2

      No... I guess I could, if people are interested.

    • @alanschaub147
      @alanschaub147 3 роки тому

      @@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I’m interested! You also mentioned the possibility of including an inventory of his equipment, as well as an explanation of how he uses it.

  • @chopcooey
    @chopcooey 3 роки тому +1

    wtf is an arctic stink squirrel? sounds great to have a familiar that can make stinking cloud at will, for i.e. a yuan-ti pact of chain warlock, but i have no idea where is the info on this type of familiar

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      It was released in the runup to Tasha's. Here's a link:
      thetrove.is/Books/Dungeons%20&%20Dragons%20[multi]/5th%20Edition%20(5e)/EXTRA/D%26D%20Celebration%202020%20Arctic%20Stink%20Squirrel.pdf

  • @1979ce
    @1979ce 2 роки тому

    at 3:05 you mention you know someone is in that space. I cannot convince my DM of this. How would you convince someone that you know where an unseen and unhidden creature is?

  • @alanschaub147
    @alanschaub147 3 роки тому

    Did you mention a Pseudodragon as a Familiar?

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      No, I didn't cover Warlock familiars in this one. I'll do a separate video on them, one of these days.

  • @bryankia
    @bryankia 3 роки тому +2

    Very informative. You need to make better use of your assistant. Maybe she could act out the rules or point at them on the screen.

  • @angelogabriel6870
    @angelogabriel6870 3 роки тому

    Can a creature with darkvision see through sleet storm? because creatures with darkvision can see through darkness as if was lightly obscured, and in the PHB says that "Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. " the same sentence as in the sleet storm spell so if they can see, in darkness like this they can aslo se through the heavily obscured area created by the spell right?

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +2

      The AOE of the Sleet Storm is Heavy Obscurement so creatures with darkvision, Devil's Sight, and even True Sight are blinded while inside, and in regards to any creatures inside the AOE if they are outside of it. The only things that can see through it are Blindsight and Tremorsense.

    • @angelogabriel6870
      @angelogabriel6870 3 роки тому

      ​@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Creatures with darkvision can see through darkness as if were dim light.. but the darkness description says: " Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. ". and when i look the description of a heavily obscured area say: "heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely." how that work? i am really confused sorry T-T

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому

      @@angelogabriel6870 I did a Deep Dive video on Heavy Obscurement, so check it out! HMU if you have any further questions :-)
      ua-cam.com/video/VYilUmoXCPs/v-deo.html

  • @ShardPF2e
    @ShardPF2e 3 роки тому +1

    There was an errata concerning heavy obscurement a while back. The original wording was this:
    "A heavily obscured area-such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage-blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see appendix PH-A) when trying to see something in that area."
    The new wording:
    "Vision and Light (p. 183). A heavily obscured area doesn’t blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it."
    Based on this I disagree with the first point of your interpretation of heavy obscurement. If both parties are blind relative to each other - say on either side of a fog cloud - both are at disadvantage. There can be no advantage gained because neither side can see each other.
    Otherwise you could use fog cloud to cancel out range disadvantage for archers, which makes no sense. Why would not being able to see their targets make archers more accurate at long range?
    If you can see them and they can't see you then you gain advantage (unless they have the alert feat), which is standard hidden attacker fare.
    The above new wording also allows you to shoot out of regular darkness into lighted areas even if you don't have darkvision (which makes sense) and gain advantage if the enemy can't see you (also makes sense), and also allows shenanigans like carrying around the Darkness spell and using Devil's Sight.

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому

      Blinded relative to each other means disadvantage for being unable to see him, and advantage for him being unable to see you, which cancels out. This is how it's intended to work, and your interpretation essentially grants every character the best part of the Alert Feat (make sure you read the updated Errata version which makes clear how the whole system works). RAW, you must have Alert to be attacked at disadvantage when both are blinded relative to the other!
      I can't argue that it makes sense by IRL physics, but by the game rules it's very clear and not controversial at all, I'm afraid.

    • @ShardPF2e
      @ShardPF2e 3 роки тому +1

      @@Bilbrons-and-Dragons It's been erratad back and forwards a couple of times - it appears the intent is not actually that clear. Neither are the rules, at least not to me. I recommend this take from the Dungeon Dudes: ua-cam.com/video/ALhcjHnFHW8/v-deo.html

    • @maxpot46
      @maxpot46 3 роки тому +1

      @@ShardPF2e What is the purpose of the 3rd aspect of the Alert Feat, if it works as you suggest?

    • @Bilbrons-and-Dragons
      @Bilbrons-and-Dragons  3 роки тому +1

      @@ShardPF2e I listened to the relevant segment of the video, and it seems to me that they admit that RAW are as I described, but are of the opinion that it doesn't make sense, so therefore they prefer to give everyone the best part of the Alert Feat for free, yes? I certainly don't agree with that... especially since I invested in Alert!
      I think it's a mistake to say, about D&D, "such and such doesn't make sense relative to my interpretation of IRL physics". D&D RAW isn't about verisimilitude, but balanced game-play. Everyone homebrews differently, so for the channel I feel compelled to go by the RAW.

    • @ShardPF2e
      @ShardPF2e 3 роки тому +1

      @@maxpot46 It stops hidden enemies that can see you from gaining advantage when they attack you, helps you survive ambushes. Ties in with the 'not being surprised' benefit.

  • @finalfantasy50
    @finalfantasy50 8 місяців тому

    Shouldn't attack roll spells give you disadvantage since you are blinded with heavy obscurement in play?