Two spells you didn't talk about that i feel deserve a mention are antilife shell and bones of the earth, anti-life shell can be placed as a bottleneck and act as a wall (although it does not work against constructs or undead as they can just pass through the barrier), and with bones of the earth, all 6 pillars can be summoned next to each other and wall of enemies if there is a 30-foot wide area (also bones of the earth can crush enemies against the ceiling)
Nice. One thing that may get overlooked for Wall of Fire is that it is Opaque, so generally, you nor others would generally be able to see through it. So, not only does it cause damage, but it can be used to obscure vision to an extent.
This is actually perfect timing. Our party just hit level 7 (Wall of Fire on Light Cleric + Druid) and are getting ready to defend a settlement from a mass of enemies, and I had brought up Wall of Fire as a really good control option in case things went south! (Going against a large mass of orcs which have limited/no experience with magic, so unlikely to attempt to run through the wall). I would have liked to have had Wall of Stone to build proper defenses, but it could be worse. Equally unluckily, since we only have 3 casters to deal with potentially several hundred/thousand enemies, we can only afford to blow full spell slots if they will have a massive effect, so Wall of Water won't be worth it most likely, but Sleet Storm/Wall of Fire could be huge. Wall of Stone is by far one of my favorite spells in the game. There's a few downsides like needing a solid foundation to build using it, and some DMs might require masons tools to like build stuff using it, but oh my is it good. Want a castle/keep? Give a Genie Warlock + Wizard/Sorcerer a few days/weeks of downtime and you have a Mighty Fortress but better. Can make the walls as thick as you want, can use Stone Shape to make any small adjustments you want, it's BEAUTIFUL. AND you can just keep adding on walls later.
nice review! as Player, i have been happy with "wind wall" for a ranger, great for escaping difficult situations, but not the best choice of your level 3 spell until maybe later? when i am DM, then i like to use various "wall" spells for custom monsters and lairs, mostly for the thematic fit
Bilbron; I’m playing a fiend warlock in Avernus. Everything has fire resistance or immunity down here. I’m a push/puller, should I take meta magic adept to get transmutate spell to turn my fire walls into thunder damage? My other option is just spamming synaptic static
Hey Bilbron. Revisited this as i was curious how you'd rule being frozen IN the wall of water (which freezes a 5 ft section). As far as i know there's no frozen condition in 5e and the closest i could find about being encased in ice is the warlock invocation tomb of levistus which reduces your speed to 0 and incapacitates you. so personally the way i'd rule it is: medium or smaller: incapacitated, speed reduced to 0 until your concentration is broken or someone breaks them out large or bigger: restrained only as only parts of their body are frozen. they are free to break the ice themselves to remove the restrained condition or have allies break it. restrained also ends if you lose concentration I was wondering how you'd rule that and if you think my ruling is fair.
Interesting to invoke Tomb of Levistus... without that, I'd be very surprised to see you adding Incapacitation, but since it exists, I guess I can see it. Personally, I think restrainment across all body sizes makes most sense.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons yeah it was the closest i could find that's about being frozen. i do wish though wotc would've specified the frozen condition. when we ran the cold spell (like cold ball) + wall of water combo at my table, it essentially turned it into a no-save hypnotic pattern (at the cost of 2 spells + action surge) for 1 of the bbegs (drow priestess iirc) then she simply got out the round after as a couple of minions simply broke the ice. on their turns.
No one has stated if I have a party member that casts wall of fire and then I cast wall of force do they work together? We are going to be attacking an ice devil and I want to trap it inside a wall of force that would happen to have a wall of fire inside. I have assumed that spells cannot penetrate the wall of force which is why I wanted the wall of fire cast first. I now realize the ice devil is immune to fire damage, but I would still like the answer to the question.
So complete off topic question: for things like Beast Master Primal Companion or Steel Defender they have a "CR--- Proficiency Bonus(PB) equals your bonus". Do you read this as the creature has a CR = your PB OR that the creature has a CR =0 AND a PB = your PB?
@@Samuel_Kabel Thanks I further looked into it and CrawDaddy (Crawford) confirmed the steel defender has a 0 for their CR. So that should also probably count for all the others that have the exact same style set up.
Unfortunately, prismatic wall probably doesn't work with forced movement, depending on how your DM interprets "When a creature *attempts* to reach into or pass through the wall"
"Hemisphere" in the wall of force spell means that it has a floor, it has a bottom. So no, you cannot float the wall an inch off the floor to retain targeting.
The spell actually says "hemispherical dome", not "hemisphere". Domes don't specify bottoms, and "hemisphere" would have been sufficient language had a bottom been intended, so IMO the chosen language implies that there is no bottom (i.e. the "-ical" implies "similar to but not quite", exactly as one would expect when describing a hemisphere with no bottom). But I grant it's ambiguous and a DM might certainly rule otherwise.
@@JakeConrad666 TH even more clearly lacks a floor, IMO... the language is "dome of force springs into existence around and above you", which 1. implies no floor by word choice of "dome" vs. "hemisphere", and 2. it specifies "around" and "above" but not "below" you.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons, below is also around you. Plus the spell range* does specify that it is also a hemisphere. Its in the spell description in the PHB
@@JakeConrad666 Does it? I don't see that on D&D Beyond. I'd argue that your argument applies to "above", as well, yet "above" is specified. But I made a short video about it for tomorrow, so please make this argument there ;-)
Personally I hold wall of sand much higher. I am not sure how you get only practically -20 move. 3 for every 1 and the wall is 10 feet thick so it takes 30 to get through it. Past that anything that block line of sight is powerful. Finally I would rule personally that even some thing like dragon breath or a fire ball would not be able to get through it, or at least be heavily dampened in effect. I can see other people not saying as much but if you let energy and matter react in any meaningful way as compared to the real world then 10 feet of sand is way to much material to get through. Something like an arrow would lose all momentum. Something like electricity or fire would interact with so many particles it would suck it up like a sponge. I mean ya sure magic so none of this has to apply but I like to make physics at least feel real .ost of the time.
i think you rated wall of fire too low. it's one of the best sustained dmg spells in the game and is even competitive for burst builds. take note the dex save for half is only upon cast. if they end their turn or enter the wall they take the dmg no save. that makes it's dmg quite reliable especially for a celestial or fiend warlock. i have played a build built around this in the past and it's great dmg even if the party doesn't do a single push or pull as it can trigger at 4-5x on round 1 and 3-4 x on subsequent rounds (one one one fight between you and the bbeg). it scales decently too. to illustrate, here's my level 10 WOF build: 2 fighter, 7 celestial warlock, 1 divine soul sorc asi: lucky custom lineage: telekinetic superior technique fighting style: feinting attack invocations: agonizing blast, repelling blast, grasp of hadar, lance of lethargy pact: tome (chain also works) tactics: round 1: bonus action: feinting attack (for eldritch blast later) action: WOF on enemy. 5d8. dex save for half. place BBEG inside the wall. put the heated area (10 ft) facing you. move: adjacent to the heated area. action surge: repelling blast grasp of hadar the BBEG. they enter the wall on your turn. they take 5d8 no save. 2nd repelling blast lance of lethargy the bbeg outside the wall. use favored of the gods or lucky for any misses. familiar: owl flyby help bbeg's turn: since the wall is long and they will waste their action to go around it, they will pass through the wall to get to you or your party. once they enter they take 5d8. no save. now here's where it gets tricky as the DM may metagame you but if they don't i will assume the bbeg is pissed off and will make a beeline to attack you (and most likely because you are nearest and they already wasted some movement passing through the wall having started 25 ft away from you). so with reduced movement, they will most likely stop in the heated area and try to hit you from there if they have reach. or be adjacent to you at the edge of the heated area if they have more than 30 ft of move. they can attack and of course the build can react with shield. but most importantly they will end their turn there and take another 5d8 no save. round 2: bonus action: telekinetic push the bbeg further into the heated area or into the wall itself. action: repelling blast grasp of hadar the bbeg outside of the wall and back in. they enter it for the 1st time again so 5d8 again of no save. repelling blast lance of lethargy again so they start their turn outside the wall and they have to enter the wall again on their turn to get to you. lather rinse repeat until dead. with that said, i would've at least given WOF a good rating. anyway great vid! i enjoy these deep dives into spells that you do. Keep the coming! :)
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons yup. and it's low level so it's more likely to see play than the other wall spells. imo the wall spells after 5th are kind of irrelevant already as most tables don't play into those levels and with 1 spell slot for it the players who play at those levels most likely won't select them either.
From a pure meta standpoint, wall of fire does not block stuff. If that is the way your DM rolls and has their enemies calculating how much damage they could take and still be okay, sure they would just walk through the wall. But if the DM were to role play enemies realistically, 90% of creatures would not be willingly walking through that wall.
@@burningwp imo this is a win win either way: 1, they are angry at you for dragging them through it previously and will enter to get back at you. they will take dmg. 2. they don't want to pass through the wall for fear of dmg, and if they don't have ranged attacks/spells, will be blocked by the wall and wasting their actions on dodge for the rest of the fight while you drag them in and out during your turn. they die slower but they are most likely also arent a threat anymore to your party. they die as quick or even faster if your party members have ranged pull/push options. 3. combination of #1 and 2 wherein while they are above 50% health they charge towards you and take dmg while once they are hurting they will stop charging towards you and stay behind the wall or retreat (which makes them useless for the rest of the combat). either way this makes wall of fire better than average (especially taking into account its the best low spell level wall). it will have a significant impact on the battle.
@@burningwp It certainly encourages them not to Move into it, but they can still lob attacks and non-sight spells through it. Better than nothing, but kinda light on the defenses for a "Wall", IMO. But I'm defensive-minded so probably do underrate offense a bit generally speaking, and DEFINITELY by the standards of offensive-minded players like Rob!
I have this strange feeling about you... are you one of these reptilans people have been talking about in recent Ufology? No offense, Wall of Stone - My personal favorite...
One really nice thing about wall of fire is that you don't get a dex save if you're pushed through, you just take the full damage
Two spells you didn't talk about that i feel deserve a mention are antilife shell and bones of the earth, anti-life shell can be placed as a bottleneck and act as a wall (although it does not work against constructs or undead as they can just pass through the barrier), and with bones of the earth, all 6 pillars can be summoned next to each other and wall of enemies if there is a 30-foot wide area (also bones of the earth can crush enemies against the ceiling)
Nice. One thing that may get overlooked for Wall of Fire is that it is Opaque, so generally, you nor others would generally be able to see through it. So, not only does it cause damage, but it can be used to obscure vision to an extent.
This is actually perfect timing. Our party just hit level 7 (Wall of Fire on Light Cleric + Druid) and are getting ready to defend a settlement from a mass of enemies, and I had brought up Wall of Fire as a really good control option in case things went south! (Going against a large mass of orcs which have limited/no experience with magic, so unlikely to attempt to run through the wall).
I would have liked to have had Wall of Stone to build proper defenses, but it could be worse. Equally unluckily, since we only have 3 casters to deal with potentially several hundred/thousand enemies, we can only afford to blow full spell slots if they will have a massive effect, so Wall of Water won't be worth it most likely, but Sleet Storm/Wall of Fire could be huge.
Wall of Stone is by far one of my favorite spells in the game. There's a few downsides like needing a solid foundation to build using it, and some DMs might require masons tools to like build stuff using it, but oh my is it good. Want a castle/keep? Give a Genie Warlock + Wizard/Sorcerer a few days/weeks of downtime and you have a Mighty Fortress but better. Can make the walls as thick as you want, can use Stone Shape to make any small adjustments you want, it's BEAUTIFUL. AND you can just keep adding on walls later.
Awesome video. Walls are the best!!
One spell that is not a wall but is close enough is Forcecage, by far the strongest 7th level spell
i don't know about "by far" if your dm allows simulacrum to exist
Fantastic video. Your tactical perspective on... well... everything, makes you particularly good at evaluating walls.
Just here to support the channel
Another great deep dive that gets me thinking about abilities in this game. Love this series!
How would you rate a "Wall" of Zombies made with Animate Dead?
Animate Dead is definitely one of the top 3rds in 5e!
Great video! Though I'd also talk about forcecage, which is probably one of the best options
This was an awesome comparison video!
nice review! as Player, i have been happy with "wind wall" for a ranger, great for escaping difficult situations, but not the best choice of your level 3 spell until maybe later? when i am DM, then i like to use various "wall" spells for custom monsters and lairs, mostly for the thematic fit
I really wonder what kind of conjurer wizard you would build bilbron
Great video like always
Bilbron; I’m playing a fiend warlock in Avernus. Everything has fire resistance or immunity down here. I’m a push/puller, should I take meta magic adept to get transmutate spell to turn my fire walls into thunder damage?
My other option is just spamming synaptic static
Hey Bilbron. Revisited this as i was curious how you'd rule being frozen IN the wall of water (which freezes a 5 ft section). As far as i know there's no frozen condition in 5e and the closest i could find about being encased in ice is the warlock invocation tomb of levistus which reduces your speed to 0 and incapacitates you. so personally the way i'd rule it is:
medium or smaller: incapacitated, speed reduced to 0 until your concentration is broken or someone breaks them out
large or bigger: restrained only as only parts of their body are frozen. they are free to break the ice themselves to remove the restrained condition or have allies break it. restrained also ends if you lose concentration
I was wondering how you'd rule that and if you think my ruling is fair.
Interesting to invoke Tomb of Levistus... without that, I'd be very surprised to see you adding Incapacitation, but since it exists, I guess I can see it. Personally, I think restrainment across all body sizes makes most sense.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons yeah it was the closest i could find that's about being frozen. i do wish though wotc would've specified the frozen condition.
when we ran the cold spell (like cold ball) + wall of water combo at my table, it essentially turned it into a no-save hypnotic pattern (at the cost of 2 spells + action surge) for 1 of the bbegs (drow priestess iirc) then she simply got out the round after as a couple of minions simply broke the ice. on their turns.
a better comparison is otilukes freezing sphere
@@JakeConrad666 this is another alternative then which is basically incap but with 1 action choice, spend an action to strength check to break free.
Great stuff!
I am appreciating the use of opportunity cost in these analyses.
Also, WoFo is a great term lol
I'm an economist by training, so such things are embedded in my perspectives, lol.
Could you connect wall of stone panels by their wide side? Effectively creating thicker walls than normally?
Yeah, sure.
No one has stated if I have a party member that casts wall of fire and then I cast wall of force do they work together? We are going to be attacking an ice devil and I want to trap it inside a wall of force that would happen to have a wall of fire inside. I have assumed that spells cannot penetrate the wall of force which is why I wanted the wall of fire cast first. I now realize the ice devil is immune to fire damage, but I would still like the answer to the question.
I think you could
Heh 3 casters, wall of stone, wall of fire, wall of force. Watch your enemies burn behind the safety of clear glass 😅
So complete off topic question: for things like Beast Master Primal Companion or Steel Defender they have a "CR--- Proficiency Bonus(PB) equals your bonus". Do you read this as the creature has a CR = your PB OR that the creature has a CR =0 AND a PB = your PB?
Those creatures are among the few in the game with no listed CR.
@@Samuel_Kabel Thanks I further looked into it and CrawDaddy (Crawford) confirmed the steel defender has a 0 for their CR. So that should also probably count for all the others that have the exact same style set up.
Unfortunately, prismatic wall probably doesn't work with forced movement, depending on how your DM interprets "When a creature *attempts* to reach into or pass through the wall"
Don't forget wall of stone can be made into a boat it will take time to do it but yes you can make a stone boat
"Hemisphere" in the wall of force spell means that it has a floor, it has a bottom. So no, you cannot float the wall an inch off the floor to retain targeting.
The spell actually says "hemispherical dome", not "hemisphere". Domes don't specify bottoms, and "hemisphere" would have been sufficient language had a bottom been intended, so IMO the chosen language implies that there is no bottom (i.e. the "-ical" implies "similar to but not quite", exactly as one would expect when describing a hemisphere with no bottom). But I grant it's ambiguous and a DM might certainly rule otherwise.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons, do you also say tiny hut has no bottom?
@@JakeConrad666 TH even more clearly lacks a floor, IMO... the language is "dome of force springs into existence around and above you", which 1. implies no floor by word choice of "dome" vs. "hemisphere", and 2. it specifies "around" and "above" but not "below" you.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons, below is also around you. Plus the spell range* does specify that it is also a hemisphere. Its in the spell description in the PHB
@@JakeConrad666 Does it? I don't see that on D&D Beyond. I'd argue that your argument applies to "above", as well, yet "above" is specified. But I made a short video about it for tomorrow, so please make this argument there ;-)
Personally I hold wall of sand much higher. I am not sure how you get only practically -20 move. 3 for every 1 and the wall is 10 feet thick so it takes 30 to get through it. Past that anything that block line of sight is powerful. Finally I would rule personally that even some thing like dragon breath or a fire ball would not be able to get through it, or at least be heavily dampened in effect. I can see other people not saying as much but if you let energy and matter react in any meaningful way as compared to the real world then 10 feet of sand is way to much material to get through. Something like an arrow would lose all momentum. Something like electricity or fire would interact with so many particles it would suck it up like a sponge. I mean ya sure magic so none of this has to apply but I like to make physics at least feel real .ost of the time.
i think you rated wall of fire too low. it's one of the best sustained dmg spells in the game and is even competitive for burst builds. take note the dex save for half is only upon cast. if they end their turn or enter the wall they take the dmg no save. that makes it's dmg quite reliable especially for a celestial or fiend warlock. i have played a build built around this in the past and it's great dmg even if the party doesn't do a single push or pull as it can trigger at 4-5x on round 1 and 3-4 x on subsequent rounds (one one one fight between you and the bbeg). it scales decently too. to illustrate, here's my level 10 WOF build:
2 fighter, 7 celestial warlock, 1 divine soul sorc
asi: lucky
custom lineage: telekinetic
superior technique fighting style: feinting attack
invocations: agonizing blast, repelling blast, grasp of hadar, lance of lethargy
pact: tome (chain also works)
tactics:
round 1:
bonus action: feinting attack (for eldritch blast later)
action: WOF on enemy. 5d8. dex save for half. place BBEG inside the wall. put the heated area (10 ft) facing you.
move: adjacent to the heated area.
action surge: repelling blast grasp of hadar the BBEG. they enter the wall on your turn. they take 5d8 no save. 2nd repelling blast lance of lethargy the bbeg outside the wall. use favored of the gods or lucky for any misses.
familiar: owl flyby help
bbeg's turn: since the wall is long and they will waste their action to go around it, they will pass through the wall to get to you or your party. once they enter they take 5d8. no save.
now here's where it gets tricky as the DM may metagame you but if they don't i will assume the bbeg is pissed off and will make a beeline to attack you (and most likely because you are nearest and they already wasted some movement passing through the wall having started 25 ft away from you). so with reduced movement, they will most likely stop in the heated area and try to hit you from there if they have reach. or be adjacent to you at the edge of the heated area if they have more than 30 ft of move. they can attack and of course the build can react with shield. but most importantly they will end their turn there and take another 5d8 no save.
round 2:
bonus action: telekinetic push the bbeg further into the heated area or into the wall itself.
action: repelling blast grasp of hadar the bbeg outside of the wall and back in. they enter it for the 1st time again so 5d8 again of no save. repelling blast lance of lethargy again so they start their turn outside the wall and they have to enter the wall again on their turn to get to you. lather rinse repeat until dead.
with that said, i would've at least given WOF a good rating. anyway great vid! i enjoy these deep dives into spells that you do. Keep the coming! :)
I'm probably just biased because I want my Walls to block stuff, lol. But yeah, for pumping out damage, it can be pretty amazing.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons yup. and it's low level so it's more likely to see play than the other wall spells. imo the wall spells after 5th are kind of irrelevant already as most tables don't play into those levels and with 1 spell slot for it the players who play at those levels most likely won't select them either.
From a pure meta standpoint, wall of fire does not block stuff. If that is the way your DM rolls and has their enemies calculating how much damage they could take and still be okay, sure they would just walk through the wall. But if the DM were to role play enemies realistically, 90% of creatures would not be willingly walking through that wall.
@@burningwp imo this is a win win either way:
1, they are angry at you for dragging them through it previously and will enter to get back at you. they will take dmg.
2. they don't want to pass through the wall for fear of dmg, and if they don't have ranged attacks/spells, will be blocked by the wall and wasting their actions on dodge for the rest of the fight while you drag them in and out during your turn. they die slower but they are most likely also arent a threat anymore to your party. they die as quick or even faster if your party members have ranged pull/push options.
3. combination of #1 and 2 wherein while they are above 50% health they charge towards you and take dmg while once they are hurting they will stop charging towards you and stay behind the wall or retreat (which makes them useless for the rest of the combat).
either way this makes wall of fire better than average (especially taking into account its the best low spell level wall). it will have a significant impact on the battle.
@@burningwp It certainly encourages them not to Move into it, but they can still lob attacks and non-sight spells through it. Better than nothing, but kinda light on the defenses for a "Wall", IMO. But I'm defensive-minded so probably do underrate offense a bit generally speaking, and DEFINITELY by the standards of offensive-minded players like Rob!
I have this strange feeling about you... are you one of these reptilans people have been talking about in recent Ufology? No offense, Wall of Stone - My personal favorite...
dude, you gotta fix your audio. good lord.