How Can We Improve Bad Keywords (Brave, Unite & Ritual) - Cardfight Vanguard Discussion
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- With the new keyword for Bermuda Triangle "Melody" we can speculate that keywords maybe will make a return in standard. But in the mean time lets take a look at older keywords and see why they failed and look at how we can improve on them.
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Vanguard Insider hates Paladins confirmed
Damn they're onto me
@@VanguardInsider Ritual was fine United was fine what Golds needed was, grave recycling even with weak skills they decked put too fast.
My idea for a shadow paladin keyword was something like Sacrifice, where it would be a keyword not given to vanguards, but the rear guards. When the rear guards are sent to the drop zone from anywhere on the field, their sacrifice skill would activate and do something. Not only would this kind of ability help the vanguards activate a combination of skills that could be powerful, but it would create interesting interactions with clans that retire rear guards should a shadow paladin player leave cards on their field to target. These skills could do anything from giving a unit 5k power, to drawing a card, to calling a replacement card from the deck. They could even go the route of giving skills to the vanguard like Kahedin does to create more on-hit pressure. Vanguards could work like other clans and have a skill that supports these units either in calling them to the field, and having another skill work as a method to retire them. Even grade 3s could have on-stride abilities, and another skill on rear circles that could be Sacrifice.
That's also a very interesting approach I like that idea alot actually.
I had a very similar idea back as well back in the day before Shadow Paladin got Ritual though personally I called it "Will" i.e. willpower or dying will. Since shadow paladin had the whole behind the scenes thing having the resolve to work in the background being the supporting shadow to the light and Blaster dark specfically being the Knight of Resolve
*laughs in Ritual being the last keyword archetype standing in Premium format.*
Charge..
@@saaramnazeer7665 not plenty of units and not the entire g deck with updated premium pieces, you're just using g units with charge to teach your rear-guards charge, unlike ritual units that still remains in the meta.
Success
Every time you try to fix these keywords the worse off they seem, sure you can say unite was not a very powerful keyword due to G-Golds sup calling all over they place but the fix you gave was just bad. Imagine that G-Golds have reinforce, that would mean your stride , stride skill and RC skills would have involve you superior calling X amount of times in order to trigger; G-Golds could chain call which made them different from Royals. Do you wanna be hit with an almost never ending wave of pokes? Since you cant justify putting a heavy cost on skills that blind calls from the top deck. For brave, you wouldnt need a fix just slap a Altmile with the stride skill of choose any amount of cards in your hand and bind them face down, then during the end phase take back those cards and for your opponents turn you still ran the other brave enabler starters so that will do. Ritual was fine sure, when your opponent reaches like Ritual 12 on Dragabyss its mega hard to defend against but the same could be stated for any other stride in GBT-14; eating stuff that needs to total up to a combine grade? Thats harsh especially when most G-decks during mid to late era ran < 6 G3 at any given point and your skill would need you to eat a combine total of grade 6, even with level booster cards thats killing a lot of RG's
Oracle was the worst imo. You want to use the cards in your hand and sometimes it was hard to meet that condition.
The problem with oracle is the 5+ condition without any good draw engine, because Bushi feared making OTT drawing too much. When things went bad they had to make Ichikishima that powerful to make Oracle playable. What's funnier is that from reboot onwards Oracle is now extremely easy to achieve.
I can't say much since I only played Gurguit for a month and never really experimented, I never truly gave G-Shadows a chance. But after being a Brave main for well over a year and a half while seeing the ups and downs of Altmile decks, I can definitely say that I do disagree on the opinions.
Altmile from day 1 was about setting the pace early right from Grade 2 ride. You would ride whatever Grade 2 and call a Starlight Violinist that was in your hand. Along with that if you had the G-Boss Crit that gave the VG 5k and a draw, then push those out as well from your hand. The mindset to play Altmile was to be first or second stride kill deck. Brave skills were never bad in my opinion, it was to teach the game flow as Blue Sky and Heavenly Decree skills were based on calling a card from hand anyways similar to V-Series Knight Squire Allen (minus the draw of course). In return for playing this style, Bushi did give Royals/Altimile players a couple of recovery cards such as the Sarugal Stand Trigger and Damascus/Sonicgal. They also made "Brave Enablers" that allowed more freedom with Brave as a whole such Knight of Lore, Selfes who bound your hand to put you at zero cards to enable brave skills, the Starter Alectos that activated Brave even with massive hand size and etc.
Bushi learned that Brave strides couldn't have the main skill of the card require Brave to be active. Divine Knight of Rainbow Brocade, Clotenus is a terrible card in terms of how to build a G-unit for a Keyword. From then on unless the card was meant to be filler, all of the strides had a major ability that didn't need the keyword and one side skill that was the card's Brave Ability. For example. Immortal Holy Sword, Fides from G-BT14, a card that made Brave a viable option in the last month of G-Era Vanguard. The main skill that required two more guardians from hand never needed Brave to be online. It just needed Brave Ability cards to be attacking. It had GB4 Brave skill that allowed you to call three new cards and etc.
By the time, G-BT14 rolled around Brave turned from a nightmare to pilot into one of best Early Tempo decks around with emphasizing on calling the cards with said "Brave" abilities such as the Grade 3 Altmile. The abilities given in return for having 3 or less cards in hand was worth it. The Kagero Griffin G-Guard could never touch you if you were on Brave thanks to the retrained Felax, Livarot became one of the key components thanks to having the ability to create Multi-attacks before GB1 was even online.
Bushi fixed Brave to the point that it was viable and personally if the reboot never happened and we were still living in a G-Era where Trigger Power wasn't increased, I think Brave could be a solid mid-tier deck.
I hope that Bushiroad pay more attention in introducing keywords in Standard than what was done in G, maybe starting with some basic one that could be easily put just to reduce text in text heavy cards (as for keywords like Vigilance, Lifelink or Haste in magic) instead of going the Melody way of introducing functional keywords. A few examples of what I would have done are putting wave 3+ on Maelstrom V or a keyword for Magus' mechanic of looking at top deck cards.
I completely agree with the points you made( although I didn't play any of those clans) however I feel Oracle and wave were also handled poorly. out of interest are you planning to make a video discussing keywords that were designed perfectly, IMO darkness and rescue
Reinforce would be a better name for the royal mechanic you came up with, while unite still fits the gold playstyle more.
Royals loved superior calling G2s during G. Brave should have been a keyword for attacking without a booster. That would have emphasized the battle phase superior calling and enhanced the quality of it overall.
The problem with these keywords was that they were not a new mechanic, just a slapped on restriction that was mostly redundant.
Can't wait for the next episode of VG tomorrow
I like the proposed changes for Brave, though I dislike the "exact" amount clause, Royals really shouldn't be encouraged or forced to withhold filling their field as much as they can so they can get off specific effects.
Unite is meh, the keyword is easy to fulfill but so are most keywords, it's basically just an initial "investment" to start making your +1 chains. I do Like making it numbered rather than a blanket "call 2+", with most effects being a 2+ but stronger ones requiring stuff like Unite 5 to top off your chains, or being attached to a strong GB3 skill. Something like "AUTO (VC): GB3, Unite 6, at the end of the battle that this unit attacked, COST: (CB1 & put all your to the top of your deck) Then shuffle your deck, check top 10 and call up to 5 to (RC)
Ritual is fine as is tbh, It makes sense thematically because you're encouraged to "sacrifice" your weaker cards to achieve increasingly powerful effects, with the more cards sacrificed the stronger the deck gets. It could be better but it doesn't really need to be changed.
I see your points and I disagree. The keyword mechanics were fine in inception. The evolution of Vanguard during the G series killed the balances between clans. So certain mechanic became obsolete due to ridiculous power creep or non commitment to the mechanics itself (ex. Bushi abandoning Afterimage for Domination)
Brave was intended to make Royal Paladins, more specifically Altmile, an aggro deck. Royals were mainly a tempo deck going into G. Adding the Brave mechanic gave players the incentive to sell out their hands to make bigger pushes earlier in the game. Brave was balanced by the idea + offense / - defense. And at least to me, it made Royals more to play, especially the last wave of Brave. Brave was bad because of their resource management against the field. Royals would have to burn through resources without recouping their losses or really putting a dent into their opponents. Decks like shadows, gear chronicle, or even D police could sell out the hand defensively and get back to 8+ cards almost without issue. Royals would be left with 6 - 7 card hand and no open CB while their opponent would, most times, proceed unphased.
Unite was made to make Gold Paladin basically a force clan in G. The superior calling gave them a way to build their board without committing too much from hand and gave them multi attacks with added power. Allowing GC to trigger Unite also gave them a necessary defensive playline a la Gurguit's GB2 skills. Unfortunately, it was only a good, not great, tempo deck. Golds never broke through because their G Units were supremely lacking. It was very much a VC centric deck without any G Units aggressive enough to elevate the clan. Matches would often continue on for 5 - 6 turns with no change in the Status Quo for ths Gold Paladin player. It had no clear win condition.
Ritual was perfect for Shadows. It was a deck all about resource management. The superior gave them attackers and retire fodder without committing from hand. That coupled with the focus on grade 1s allowed them to separate themselves from Royals who focused on grade 2. Also, Luard's free stride allows you the room to play more grade 1s without interrupting the consistency with the deck with a sub-optimal amount of grade 3s and stride fodder. Introducing to Ritual X allowed them to power up as the game progressed and eventually lead them some of the best win conditions in all of Vanguard. It was everything Gold Paladin wanted to be - the ultimate Tempo deck.
In personally feel like unite should be a number based one and they need to have called that many number of cards or more for it to be live and brave should be the same a number next to the keyword and ur hand had to be that many cards or less
This is a cool discussion, I'm really glad you brought it up. Back in the day though, the only great keywords imo were time leap and dominate because they completely changed the way GC and Nuba played and maybe you can count Harmony and Success in there, too. Keywords like Rescue, Hollow, Darkness, Magia, Unite, Engorge and plenty more keywords were kind of just the same as the clan already played. I think that's why a number of them didn't feel impactful or felt lackluster or were flat out bad like Brave, Oracle and Afterimage. As for your takes on the keywords, I'm biased on ritual and think it's fine as is and, in fact, I think your solution sort of devalues G1's too much with say something like, Ritual 5 for instance. The most efficient means would be to kill your 2 front row RG's ideally a G3 and a G2 and that kind of hinders the offensive capabilities of Shadows some, again, as an example. Your other two solutions are much more elegant and I think many would agree that they are quite good and much better than what the clans already have. Agin, thank you for the video and discussion and, tiny thing but I noticed it and figured it won't hurt but, it's "superior" with an "e" and an "i" not two "i's." Just in case you ever make some more of these videos it might help to know.
Yeah the Ritual version is somewhat on the weaker side of the three but I wanted to bring it up maybe some of you guys in the community had a great alternative and I saw some really neat options. Also thanks for the heads up in the "superior" thing will make a mental note on that one.
I think gold should have your new unite skill because they’ll be able to have more room with their accel circles. Royals can also easily have reinforce, but vice versa is fine. Also funny enough gold has brave with the new garmore, and blaster arrow sorta has a unite skill relying on 6 blaster units. I never rly like the name ritual. Because having grade 1 in the drop doesn’t feel like it represent the word. I’m thinking like yugioh ritual. it should’ve been about retiring their own units.
Someone get this man a degree in game design.
I really love your take on gold paladin tho I think it would also be todo with normal call as well as superior instead of superior since it would be easier to get going if you have a bricky turn. I really like the royal Paladin take tho. I do think that ritual would have been amount of units retired and not grades as your version would likely stray the clan away from their high grade 1 focus builds. Anyways, I would really like for you talk about the spike Brothers keyword charge, the Murakumo shadowstitch, Megacolony dark device (unnecessarily easy) and dark irregulars darkness.
I really liked this type of video of game analysis/clan analysis and I would really like to see more of this type of video, especially from you since you really do in depth and interesting/educated/intellectual takes on these type of things
Thank you ^^ I would be honored to take such degree
Yeah in hindsight making the gold keyword work with any call would be better and the shadow one is definitly the more weaker one of the three as I myself was stil thinking about it. I wanted to throw in that rough idea in this video to see what other people thought about it and maybe know a more elegant solution.
And yeah so far the reception has been way better than I anticipated so probably we're going to see alot more of these videos ;)
As a shadow paladin player myself, I would personally agree on the ritual mechanic being a bit dumb. but I think Oracle need more buff than ritual. So my top 3 keywords that needs buff are
1. Brave (this shit is really dumb)
2. Oracle
3. Unite
Unite and ritual were easy as he'll to pull off. But brave required you to hack off your own limbs to fight until gz support.
That was the problem with Unite and Ritual, they were so easy to activate that they were basically redundant, same for Darkness. At least Ritual slightly changed how SP played as you wanted to fill the drop with G1s, but Unite and Darkness literally did nothing to change how the deck functioned.
Well, I didn’t hear anything about Tachikaze’s Engorge, which is a lot like the Shadow Paladin idea but the units have to eat the other to fulfill that skill, plus the number of units retired by Engorge, it was Something worth not balancing.
For Kagero, I wouldn’t change anything! But I would’ve made Nubatama have only one Keyword skill! Because they came into the G era with After Image, and left it with.....DOMINATE! Which was even scarier!
I would like to see you explain more Keyword skills for all of the other clans! Like Charge for Spike Brothers, and Lock + Delete for Link Joker! And so on! Also go in depth pf their balance in the game as a whole.
Unite: I agree that gold paladin should get some supports to put a drop zone or field to the deck but I don't think calling more units would make any difference from the old keyword. I think gold paladin should have should something that similar to Liberator, Monarch Sanctuary Alfred but changing from putting on the top of the deck and call again to put it in the bottom of the deck check top X cards and call them as the number as(or +Y) you put in the bottom of the deck.
Brave: I totally agree with the Unite concept but I prefer "Formation" than "Unite" (like a tactical formation in the war)
Ritual: I don't think It a good idea to count the grade that you retired because most of Shadow paladin units tend to call G1 or lower. Instead of grade requirement or counting drop zone, maybe making some G1 or G2 with the skill "when this unit is retired from R with your card ability, perform one of the effects below depending on the unit that retire this unit. If it's VG: VG get power blah, If it's RG: draw or something" and I think "Sacrifice" would a suitable name for this type of skill.
I actually love brave. Sure it is a terrible mechanic but I had fun with it, combining sanctuary guard and brave is actually pretty wild. Getting a pg every turn is always nice
Brave was an excellent archetype
Unite is not a bad keyword. It is one of the easiest keywords to activate. Gold Paladins are known for superior calling cards. Units with unite can be played in most Gold Paladin decks. Gold Paladins want to call cards from the deck. Weak effects do not make a keyword bad. Keywords are bad if they are inconsistent. The issue is not the keyword. The issue is the weak skills given to the cards.
Rally could of been a key word for either Gold or Royal paladin. Ws hoping rally would of been the Royal skill and and have a good requirement cause bonus effect for royal paladin brave.
It's a good perspective, I totally agree with that. I would make a mkre interactive gameplay for premium. But on the other side, those keywords are still fun to play around with >3
As a Tachikaze main, I can safely say that Engorge was the best thing bushi could do for us.
I liked all the replacements except new ritual.
I loved the magia. Just because they go back into the soul. Still wish they had more mid battle effects though.
You made a Vanguard youtube video. That doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.
I would also suggest more types of ways to remove rears with Reinforce.
Also, I still prefer Unite for GP XD
OH! MTG actually has something similar to your version of Ritual X.
As a golds player I would LOVE to have had Reinforce. It would have made the deck so much more interesting. Unite was so disappointing. I would even accept it (or even your new Unite) for standard golds
B4 watching video:
Unite and Ritual were bad???
Unite maybe
But ritual was pretty decent
If Brave was not as bad as it was my locals probably would not have only Blaster Royal Players. Unite for Royals that you suggest makes way more sense than for golds.
While your idea for Ritual is interesting I think its a bit weird that it depent on grade of cards you retire so My Idea is instead of combine grade,its up to the number of rearguard(s) you retire
I think Magia is far inferior to Ritual. They literally didnt get anything good until Harri stride and ironically, Dust
no one can change my mind Oracle was the worst skill in the game, it took them making a busted g4 to make it any good and it was only one card. It came out during the time when muilt attack was so rambit that over 90% the keyword did nothing but hinder OTT.
What kind of keyword would you have given Link Joker?
What about darkness that the real key word that doesn't add anything to the clan playstyle
Dark Device!!
In my opinion, Brave was the worse. Royal Paladins didn't need that keyword, had they have Unite instead then the deck would have been a whole lot better. If they bring back keywords for the reboot then I hope they get better improvements than they're previous ones.
Ritual is ok!
Brave is not ok, agreed.
Unite is not ok for gold paladins,agreed.
Where's burst?rush?wave?charge?engorge?darkness?magia?
The problem with Ritual and Darkness is that they're so easy to trigger that they become redundant.
For my self opinion all keyword its ok but success really success ??
About brave just play 4 Alectos xD i wonder how it works when i used alectos skill and i got cards like Soniccgal and Hope Keeper must i choose what triggers first? xD
Honestly I thought oracle was kinda shite as well but brave was just a huge mistake
Lol v-series still doesnt have a keyword especially for link joker and their locks
If that 3 keywords are bad, then how about Afterimage? or ppl just totally forgot that shit exists lmfao
Afterimage was dumb but at least it was a different mechanic for the clan, stuff like Brave and Ritual did nothing new besides putting an arbitrary restriction.
I disagree with Ritual.
What about afterimage..? xD
Those are bad keywords?
All this talk about rituals reminds me of Yugioh.
is it just me or you're using filter or something (green screen)
you looked like a 3D :)
no hate , it's cool
I think it's my natural look "3D" as i didn't uses any filter/green screen in these videos ;)
Brave was actually the worse keyword ever. Change my mind
whats with the poor quality
UA-cam is still rendering the video apparently :/ its 1080p
yay