@@RagnarKorg3141 But which is the effect and which the cause? When a Character of the Week or a stand-out extra gets a _really positive reaction,¹_ then they get called back to reprise the role. Think: Rom (originally: "Ferengi Pit Boss"), Weyoun, Garak, and, most notably, *O'Brien.* ¹not necessarily audience-in the pre-internet days, it could have been when the producers or directors liked the actor in the role or just when the *writers* really enjoyed writing for the character.
I know we're mainly focused on Mariner and Sito, but hearing Nick Locarno tell Wes "just imagine how proud Captain Picard will be when he hears what you pulled off" really adds on to how much Wes feels he let down Picard in that episode.
I love how Lower Decks despite technically being a show about poking fun at Star Trek still treats the franchise with far more respect and understanding than the more serious dramatic stuff like Discovery and Picard.
Awww. Mariner was such a Boimler in her younger days. Makes me wish she hadn't went through dealing with the Cardassians and the Dominion war and the fallout from that... Poor kid. She just wanted to be an astronaut and became a soldier instead.
There is only one character I've seen with a similar transition from enthusiastic to jaded. He's Gort Holy from "Martian Successor Nadesico". Throughout the entire series he never smiles once! But in the first episode, when he's recruited, you see his constant, grim expression. Then for second you'll see a photograph of him back when he was still a happy cadet.
Really sad how that became true for a LOT of Starfleet officers, started as an exploratory organization, ended up a military,diplomatic CLUSTERFUCK cludge organization thats so cluttered with bureaucracy, corruption, and ineptitude at times it appears to be a shell of it's former self.
I feel that bad part there, is that she didn't need to join Star Fleet to be the astronaut. She hates on those who don't do it through Star Fleet. The fact is, they're travelling around since the beginning on exploration ships that are equipped with weapons.
''Just imagine how proud Captain Picard will be when he hears what you've pulled off!'' The idea that Picard would have been in any way proud about something like that shows how little Locarno understood who he's talking about.
"Congratulations. Locarno, you're not graduating, you are expelled. The rest of you knuckleheads can repeat your last year, you will receive formal reprimands, and your flight status is revoked."
@@hinoron6528 Which is actually something that Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry would frown on considering a big point he wanted for the original Star Trek Next Generation is that by the 24th century humanity would have moved passed such "foolish emotions" but.... yeah that was a really bad story point in general that it's good most series didn't really run with that. Even Next Gen in it's later seasons realized removing the humanity from well human stories was a BAD idea.
but you almost can't blame Locarno for that one. Picard was an absolute maverick during his time at the academy. I can only imagine the stories that cadets tell about him. Wes is an absolute outlier in the way that he knows Picard.
I always knew she was a nerd on the inside, from her thinking the warp core is super cool, to thinking Boimler looked good doing his Vulcan salute, but war and trauma can change a person. hopefully we see more of her nerd side next season! (and here's hoping Tendi makes her return near the end of next season!)
Usually when they take a character off screen long term it's usually due to an IRL emergency. I've seen it happen before. That's what happened to the security chief in the Orville they took her off the cast bc I do believe she was having a family emergency. Im just saying. If Tendi is completely gone for more than three episodes next season the actress is more than likely dealing with some stuff.
@@furionmax7824 For a live action actor, sure, or if they become pregnant, or were injured or the like... but this is a voice actress. She has a whole year to record her lines for the entire season.
I love how we actually get to see the poor Cadet that dies, this is such a great story trope of the Bomb under the table that no one knows exist sort of tension
I wonder whether we will see the prison break episode they always wanted to do in DS9. The showrunners always intended for Sito to have been just captured, but never got around to do that follow-up episode.
So this is why she took boimler under her wing he’s who she wishes she still was. Man that’s lot unpack character wise but wholesome knowing she’s been doing it to protect him and keep him from becoming like her whether she knew it or not.
@@jaimebabb9968 It's all but confirmed that Carol served on the big-D (Riker hugs her, is on first name terms, and claims to have been her Cha'Dich - and there's even an Ensign Freeman of the right gender and ethnicity in an episode or two of TNG), so it would make sense that Beckett lived onboard for a few years before shipping off to the Academy a year or two after Wesley.
You can tell how charming Locarno is and how he’s got Nova Squad thinking this plan is in their best interest when, in reality, he only wants to take this risk for him. I’ve known a few Locarnos in my life and, believe me, they’re capable of making you think they’re your best friend but screw you over if it’ll benefit them.
OK, seeing Mariner pre-traumatized, I'm starting to think she and Tendi followed opposite life paths. Mariner: Started out as a happy explorer, got traumatized, became a jaded badass. Tendi: Started out as a badass pirate queen, discovered science, became a happy explorer.
this one scen fills in so much backstory for Marriner the reason she took boimler under her wing is cause he was EXACTLY like she was in her early career
How strange. All the kid parts I've seen him play were always serious. So this doesn't feel completely off to me. The guy acted with River Phoenix, Corey Feldman, and that other guy in "Stand By Me".
Saw a comment elsewhere that they did a great job making Cadet Albert look like the (late) actor who played Cmdr. Albert (Ed Lauter). Really beautiful attention to detail.
I see this and see both Boimler and Tendi- this is definitely giving Tendi screaming I got to hold a heart on her first day on the Cerritos a little bit too.
This scene could have been so tasteless and tone deaf (a'la Family Guy), but in fact is played brilliantly as poignant and tragic peppered with the show's winning humor. It shows the overlooked brilliance of the series.
Seeing comments pointing out that Mariner is likely 30+ at this point. I will remind that the Federation has a much higher life expectancy for people than they do in real life right now. That middle age is considered 50 until 90, then you are considered 'old. Life expectancy is between 130 to 150 as of the TNG era as far as I recall. So while she is in her 30s, she's still "young" by their measure.
I think the reason she is so much older than the other Lower Deckers is because she's moved from ship-to-ship and has been promoted/demoted a number of times. That's the reason she's so much more knowledgeable that the others. I suspect that if she hadn't repeatedly self-sabotaged she might have worked her way up to be a Captain by now.
If fan-service is well done and works well, then I'm in. And using Sito's death as a reason for Mariner's self-sabotaging behavior fits pretty well. I also like that we finally get to see Joshua Albert, the cadet who died during the Kolvoord Starburst maneuver. There's just one thing which might be a minor continuity goof: When Sito stood up for herself to Picard in "Lower Decks", she mentioned she didn't have any friends at the academy after the events of "The First Duty". Meaning either Sito exaggerated or Mariner also turned her back on her and wasn't completely honest about it with Ma'ah. Also, I've noticed that one member of Nova Squadron Jean Hajar is absent in this sequence.
_Meaning either Sito exaggerated or Mariner also turned her back on her and wasn't completely honest about it with Ma'ah._ If Mariner was every bit the Boimler she was in this scene, she was likely peer-pressured into turning her back on Sito and Wesley with the full cooperation of the faculty and command staff. That can mess people up, as we've seen what happened to Sito and Wesley. It could be yet another regret among the pile of regrets in Mariner's past that she's still running from, and it could be why she's decided "screw protocol/peer pressure, I'm doing what I want" in season 1. Also makes the penultimate episode in season 3 all the more poignant. Mariner went through exactly what Sito went through, only Mariner didn't do anything wrong or remotely offensive. No wonder she resigned as soon as she was reassigned.
Yeah, this is my exact take as well. I don't think Mariner turned her back, because then the guilt over that would be eating at her. It's likely the truth exists somewhere in the middle: Beckett's hero worship likely didn't feel like "friendship" to Jaxa, who also probably kept her at arm's length anyway just due to the differences in their age. What I want to know is why Beckett never mentions Wesley-they would have ended up in the same graduating class, and they both grew up on the _D._ (I know that last bit isn't confirmed canon, but DANGIT, LET ME HAVE THIS! 🤣)
There is a third possibility: Sito refused Mariner's friendship to protect her from the other students at the academy. Makes sense that Sito wouldn't want Mariner to suffer due to her mistake.
He’d definitely have been one of those captains that gets their entire ship killed and than tries to weasel out of any responsibility. Ego is a trait no commanding officer should indulge in unless it’s tempered by the desire to help, Kirk always had an ego but he always would try and save people.
I really want to see a prequel movie about Mariner during the Dominion War; how she went from being a bright, chirpy, Boimler-type here to the cynical jerk-with-a-heart-of-gold she was at the start of the series. Maybe show her going on a secret mission with Riker, General K'orin, and Quimp the Ferengi.
Hearing Shannon Fill's voice, almost 20 years after leaving acting. It really hits you and as Spock once said: "There are always possibilities" It's just a stranger than fiction sort of thing...where Fill talked about how nervous she was in Lower Decks, to now...a series named after that episode and her return. I wonder if she felt as if life was coming full circle. Not many of us have such an opportunity, so seeing someone have such an opportunity, happy for her. I always felt Sito's death in Lower Decks to be an afterthought and trivialized...also for Picard to be so irresponsible in giving an ensign such a dangerous mission. This is about as close to 'righting a wrong' as we will ever get.
0:04 Ah, I guess Jean Hajar is in the episode after all. At least I'd like to believe that's her waving to the rest of Nova Squadron before running the other way.
There's a theory I read that I have a hard time dismissing-Jean Hajar would, in retrospect, be the *most obvious assumed name* for a Dominion infiltrator...
I'm guessing the actress probably wasn't available, they didn't want to recast and they decided showing her leaving before the start of the conversation was less awkward than having her there but not talking.
@urbypilot2136 I don't mean that they couldn't get in contact with her. I meant that she might have been busy, unable to get to studio when they needed or just wasn't interested.
0:27 The sound booth really brings out a different voice in the actors, like how people speak differently over the phone. I don't think Wes had this kind of vocal energy at any point in Wheaton's _TNG_ career. The same went for Newsome and Quaid when they did the crossover episode. People shout and enunciate more when they're looking at a microphone instead of another person.
@@carlzerris6566 "Marinerd" has the potential to be some of the cutest thing in the show, if not possibly in general. What we know about her as she currently is, her behaving in a nerdy way comes across as pseudo-ooc in the best possible way, and it also serves as a nice insight into what she was like before her trauma.
I mean realistically Nova Squadron still would have been in hot water at best or gotten expelled at worst since they still did a banned move that could have gotten a lot of people killed.
Believe it or not, we actually could've gotten stuck with this idiot on Star Trek Voyager!!!😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬 Thankfully the writers thought better of it and created the new character of Tom Paris for the actor.🤩🤩🤩
Boimler did say "we're like the same age" in the first Episode so prodigy Mariner started like at 13/14 or Boimler started late. In Beta canon Admiral Ross graduated at age 25.
I wonder how Mariner at first handle hearing that her hero recklessly got one her teammates killed and then conspirer to coverup? Then what did do when Sito was getting ostracize and possibly builled by the other cadets?
I can imagine this was all the start of her bad reputation among her peers. Spying on Locarno for evidence and getting into fights with anyone who badmouthed Sito.
@@jordanloux3883@jordanloux3883 I think Mariner would be really mad at Sito at first, feeling like "Don't meet your heroes" kind of emotion, and that's when she started acting out in anger. But Sito did mange to convince Mariner she was really sorry and wanted to reddened herself as a good role model for Mariner.
She's in her first year, and we saw that Wesley Crusher was able to apply for the academy at age 16 for presumably the following academic year. So, probably 17-18 depending on when her birthday is.
@@patrickwilkinson7351 She's also a bit shorter than she is in the show's present day, isn't she? Maybe she _is_ 16 here, with a birth year of 2352. That would make her 29 in 2381, and 49 in 2401. Sure, they tend to let only real prodigies in at that age, but Mariner's never exactly suffered for lack of talent, has she? I could see it.
0:21-0:42 Is it just me or do those animation frames seem too fluid? So it reminded me of the animation style used for the movie America The Motion Picture ',:v
Coincidentally, I was in Air Force ROTC at the same time Wesley was attending Starfleet Academy. Wesley got scandalized by the Nova Squad accident, and then shortly later I got disciplined for a sexual harassment charge. Later, Wesley defied Captain Picard and quit the academy. The shortly later, I got disenrolled for pulling a prank on my university. So my skeletons in the closet with ROTC mirrored Wesley’s dirty laundry with Starfleet Academy.
Believe it or not, we actually could've gotten stuck with this idiot on Star Trek Voyager!!!😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬 Thankfully the writers thought better of it and created the new character of Tom Paris for the actor.🤩🤩🤩
That's why she was chosen for the mission, and why it's especially tragic. She was the only one who could have pulled it off, no one else could, and she still volunteered because it was the right thing to do.
"Another shocking twist!" I doubt it, doing that takes away from the gravitas of her death and all it's meant for the franchise. Like what happened with Tasha Yar.
@@Rassilon001They've already done that with all the maquis characters, like Ro and Thomas Riker. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again, for better or worse.
Doubt it, but it would be nice if Mariner met Joret Dal, the Cardassian spy who was part of the mission that got Sito killed. I think it would be good closure, showing that Sito's sacrifice wasn't senseless and did help prevent battles that saved lives, even though they couldn't stop the war.
I appreciate the motivation they tried to give Mariner, but it’s a little funny that she could go through the entire Dominion at DS9 can’t be that tortured by what happened to Zito.
@@legionaer1125 Depending on exact birthdate 30-32 assuming she got into the Academy close to as young as possible. Boy genius Wesley first applied at 16. Normal is 17/18.
Presumably 17 or 18. Wesley was able to apply at age 16, presumably for the next academic year when he would have been 17. So 17-18 in the flashback, 30-31 depending on when her birthday is.
You know, it would have made sense for Tom Paris to have just been him in Voyager, seeing how Tom was so hyper competent at everything despite supposedly being a dropout, being a former Nova Squadron candidate totally tracks for that. I'm pretty sure there was some BS about royalties being payed to a writer to keep using the character name, which is why they used to the same actor but made him a different character right?
pretty sure they rightly assumed it would be a much harder sell to give a redemption arc to someone who knowingly covered up the cause of the accident and pressured his squad mates into doing the same
Yeah as @EtanRedKnight says, the one who died (Joshua Albert) is the other guy with them. But if you watch closely at the beginning of the clip there's a woman with them who stops, waves at them and then turns around and runs back in the direction they came from. That has been presumed to be Jean Hajar, the fifth member.
Am i the only one sad that Locarno died? I was preferred he was arrested and sent to jail, to see others to graduate and fly, while him will never see the stars again.
...Did not expect "this" reference in this comment section. But also can't technically argue it either, she got messed up HARD. It's almost as sad as Emergence given how we see her here when she was younger and just starting out yeah.
Academy first years usually seem to be in their late teens (or species equivalent), so probably 17, 18. So… if we assume that, 31 maybe? Which would explain all the time for all the demotions.
@@wendyheatherwood Also anyone in Starfleet can remain Ensign like that one episode Q got Picard's timeline to change from being stabbed, he never moved up and became basically old Picard but stuck forever as an Ensign because he lacked the spine to move up
I wish Hajar could have been there (looked like her at a distance running off before getting close to the group). That said, this scene feels a little too wink/nudge since the audience is essentially familiar with where this is going. Frankly, it would have been better if it took place before Locarno proposed the Kolvoord Starburst maneuver so we could really see this group without anything clandestine hovering around them that makes Wesley or Josh nervous or bothered. Might better show how Nick was a huge cult of personality to the squad that could lead the other 4 to such immoral behavior. After all, if we see them as all good friends, it makes it that much stronger to believe that there is guilt and remorse when you get to _TNG: “The First Duty”_ over the loss of one of their own and equally the fact they have no one to blame but themselves for not wanting to be the turd in the punch bowl because they were so arrogantly blinded by Nick’s charm that they could pull it off and just went along.
It was one of the best episodes of TNG they have ever made, but then they ended the show out of the blue. I know everyone thought they had one more season because of the contracts.
💯 Agree. I made the mistake of re-watching _TNG's_ "Lower Decks" after the _LDS_ finale. Bawled like a baby for half an hour straight. Yeah, it's a great episode. Yeah, her death had power _because_ of her backstory, and yeah, that death was *the point* of the episode (a reminder that every redshirt that dies is their own Sito Jaxa). But I can hold two contradictory views in my head at once.
The crew from lower decks seems to have more adventures than some captains and the bridge crew. This negates the premise of Lower Decks where the crew always complains of getting the worse responsibilities.
All of NU TREK is awful crap by Star Warsians who think they can come and annex Trek, but this little clip...huh! That was a bit interesting. Aside from that wierd chatter mouth girl who interrupted, I thought this was perceptive. I'm intrigued
Here we go. One of the reasons why this show sucks. They have to magically insert Mariner into everything. She is nails on a chalkboard annoying along with Boimler. The faster this show gets shitcanned the better.
@@supersonicheroes They didn't just have Mariner pop up there. Here they basically showed that she was a young fangirl of the Nova Squadron. It was mentioned in the previous episode that she admired Sito, and death of Sito shattered her and set her on the path her life has taken. From the beginning a big part of Mariner's story is that she is very reckless and over the seasons they've given us hints about why she is that way. This episode is culmination of that story. The reason Mariner tends to pop up in many places is because she's had five assignments before this one which lead her to have a great deal of experience. The reason she just got promoted to LT Junior Grade is that she self-sabotaged herself, repeatedly being promoted and then demoted. Without the self-sabotage she could have been a Captain by now.
Why didn't they have Cadet Hajar in the episode if they were gonna have the other 4 people in it with Mariner? They had Wes, Nick, Sito, Josh, and Mariner?? lol
Shannon Fill returned as Sito Jaxa after almost 30 years and even though she had retired from acting. Excelsior!
People love Trek.
I cried when I heard her voice and again when I saw her name in the credits.
@@GSBarlev We often tend to like characters who only appear a few times
@@Rassilon001 I watched every episode of TNG
@@RagnarKorg3141 But which is the effect and which the cause? When a Character of the Week or a stand-out extra gets a _really positive reaction,¹_ then they get called back to reprise the role. Think: Rom (originally: "Ferengi Pit Boss"), Weyoun, Garak, and, most notably, *O'Brien.*
¹not necessarily audience-in the pre-internet days, it could have been when the producers or directors liked the actor in the role or just when the *writers* really enjoyed writing for the character.
I know we're mainly focused on Mariner and Sito, but hearing Nick Locarno tell Wes "just imagine how proud Captain Picard will be when he hears what you pulled off" really adds on to how much Wes feels he let down Picard in that episode.
Yeah, Locarno knew just what to say to get Wesley on board.
I love how Lower Decks despite technically being a show about poking fun at Star Trek still treats the franchise with far more respect and understanding than the more serious dramatic stuff like Discovery and Picard.
Awww. Mariner was such a Boimler in her younger days.
Makes me wish she hadn't went through dealing with the Cardassians and the Dominion war and the fallout from that... Poor kid. She just wanted to be an astronaut and became a soldier instead.
Problby why she likes boimler so much
There is only one character I've seen with a similar transition from enthusiastic to jaded. He's Gort Holy from "Martian Successor Nadesico". Throughout the entire series he never smiles once! But in the first episode, when he's recruited, you see his constant, grim expression. Then for second you'll see a photograph of him back when he was still a happy cadet.
Really sad how that became true for a LOT of Starfleet officers, started as an exploratory organization, ended up a military,diplomatic CLUSTERFUCK cludge organization thats so cluttered with bureaucracy, corruption, and ineptitude at times it appears to be a shell of it's former self.
@@cursedcanine8414 You know that does actually explain a lot.
I feel that bad part there, is that she didn't need to join Star Fleet to be the astronaut. She hates on those who don't do it through Star Fleet. The fact is, they're travelling around since the beginning on exploration ships that are equipped with weapons.
''Just imagine how proud Captain Picard will be when he hears what you've pulled off!''
The idea that Picard would have been in any way proud about something like that shows how little Locarno understood who he's talking about.
Yeah and thats what makes this show so good..... it just adds to the other shows in a great way.
"Congratulations. Locarno, you're not graduating, you are expelled. The rest of you knuckleheads can repeat your last year, you will receive formal reprimands, and your flight status is revoked."
It's almost like teenagers talk themselves into doing dumb things even in the 24th century or something. :P
@@hinoron6528 Which is actually something that Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry would frown on considering a big point he wanted for the original Star Trek Next Generation is that by the 24th century humanity would have moved passed such "foolish emotions" but.... yeah that was a really bad story point in general that it's good most series didn't really run with that. Even Next Gen in it's later seasons realized removing the humanity from well human stories was a BAD idea.
but you almost can't blame Locarno for that one. Picard was an absolute maverick during his time at the academy. I can only imagine the stories that cadets tell about him. Wes is an absolute outlier in the way that he knows Picard.
I always knew she was a nerd on the inside, from her thinking the warp core is super cool, to thinking Boimler looked good doing his Vulcan salute, but war and trauma can change a person. hopefully we see more of her nerd side next season!
(and here's hoping Tendi makes her return near the end of next season!)
End? I expect Tendi to be gone one episode, two tops. The same as when Boimler joined the Titan. It'll never last.
Usually when they take a character off screen long term it's usually due to an IRL emergency. I've seen it happen before.
That's what happened to the security chief in the Orville they took her off the cast bc I do believe she was having a family emergency.
Im just saying. If Tendi is completely gone for more than three episodes next season the actress is more than likely dealing with some stuff.
@@furionmax7824 For a live action actor, sure, or if they become pregnant, or were injured or the like... but this is a voice actress. She has a whole year to record her lines for the entire season.
God no! I hope that Tendi find her way back at very least before Mid-season!!!! (I miss just her so much)
Mariner was always the best written, sadly many just hate blacks
I love how we actually get to see the poor Cadet that dies, this is such a great story trope of the Bomb under the table that no one knows exist sort of tension
I wonder whether we will see the prison break episode they always wanted to do in DS9. The showrunners always intended for Sito to have been just captured, but never got around to do that follow-up episode.
@@dschehutinefer5627That concept got turned into "Hard Times" (where O'Brien gets a prison sentence delivered "Inner Light" style).
I liked the wince he gives almost directly to 'the camera' when Wesley says "what do you think Josh?"
Which cadet died? There was no such scene.
@@xxmemestar69xx82 just watch the TNG ep the First duty which this scene takes place directly before that episode
So this is why she took boimler under her wing he’s who she wishes she still was. Man that’s lot unpack character wise but wholesome knowing she’s been doing it to protect him and keep him from becoming like her whether she knew it or not.
Damn, she has gone full big sis there.
No wonder she attracts peanuts. Not just boimler but tendy and Rutherford.
I like how Wesley smiles when Mariner shows up.
Yeah, maybe Wesley will reappear in Lower Decks and reunite with Mariner, or meet Boimler, or both.
There's a popular fan theory that Mariner spent part of her childhood on the Enterprise-D. Maybe they knew each other.
@@jaimebabb9968 Would be interesting if they did.
@@jaimebabb9968 It's all but confirmed that Carol served on the big-D (Riker hugs her, is on first name terms, and claims to have been her Cha'Dich - and there's even an Ensign Freeman of the right gender and ethnicity in an episode or two of TNG), so it would make sense that Beckett lived onboard for a few years before shipping off to the Academy a year or two after Wesley.
So basically Mariner was a Boimler back at the academy. No wonder she took him under her wing. Made me tear up a bit.
If you look closely at the beginning of the clip, Boothsbey, the gardener, is in front of the tree. Great attention to detail!!!
Mariner geeking out over the Xindi is so cute.
You can tell how charming Locarno is and how he’s got Nova Squad thinking this plan is in their best interest when, in reality, he only wants to take this risk for him. I’ve known a few Locarnos in my life and, believe me, they’re capable of making you think they’re your best friend but screw you over if it’ll benefit them.
OK, seeing Mariner pre-traumatized, I'm starting to think she and Tendi followed opposite life paths.
Mariner: Started out as a happy explorer, got traumatized, became a jaded badass.
Tendi: Started out as a badass pirate queen, discovered science, became a happy explorer.
This makes...a surprising amount of sense...are you a psychology student by any chance?
Not even remotely. But I am an aspiring writer. XD@@dmadd4643
It’s weird but nice to finally see what Joshua Albert looked and sounded like.
this one scen fills in so much backstory for Marriner the reason she took boimler under her wing is cause he was EXACTLY like she was in her early career
Wesly trying to sound young is hilarious to me
I mean his actor has gray hair now when he did star trek he was 16
How strange. All the kid parts I've seen him play were always serious. So this doesn't feel completely off to me. The guy acted with River Phoenix, Corey Feldman, and that other guy in "Stand By Me".
Ends up sounding nothing like Wesley Crusher.
@@anicetuneshocker, the old guy doesn't sound like he's 16 anymore
@@B1izzardHawk
Yeah I just lament the missed opportunity for a good old fashion shut up Wesley.
Saw a comment elsewhere that they did a great job making Cadet Albert look like the (late) actor who played Cmdr. Albert (Ed Lauter). Really beautiful attention to detail.
Tying references for tng and enterprise into the same scene glorious.
And the fact that mariner knew wesley Makes it even better
Great to hear the Xindi.
Oh my god, young Mariner is Boimler. o.O
She talks exactly like Tendi when she arrived on the Cerritos!!
It’s kinda cute
We all guessed it but to have it confirmed is just... 🥹
I see this and see both Boimler and Tendi- this is definitely giving Tendi screaming I got to hold a heart on her first day on the Cerritos a little bit too.
This scene could have been so tasteless and tone deaf (a'la Family Guy), but in fact is played brilliantly as poignant and tragic peppered with the show's winning humor. It shows the overlooked brilliance of the series.
Seeing comments pointing out that Mariner is likely 30+ at this point. I will remind that the Federation has a much higher life expectancy for people than they do in real life right now. That middle age is considered 50 until 90, then you are considered 'old. Life expectancy is between 130 to 150 as of the TNG era as far as I recall. So while she is in her 30s, she's still "young" by their measure.
She barely looks any older at all.
I think the reason she is so much older than the other Lower Deckers is because she's moved from ship-to-ship and has been promoted/demoted a number of times. That's the reason she's so much more knowledgeable that the others. I suspect that if she hadn't repeatedly self-sabotaged she might have worked her way up to be a Captain by now.
There's even a moment in an early LD episode where Boimler assumes they're about the same age, and then starts to question it, and she deflects.
Mariner as a gushy bubbly school girl, it's uncomfortably charming.
If fan-service is well done and works well, then I'm in.
And using Sito's death as a reason for Mariner's self-sabotaging behavior fits pretty well.
I also like that we finally get to see Joshua Albert, the cadet who died during the Kolvoord Starburst maneuver.
There's just one thing which might be a minor continuity goof:
When Sito stood up for herself to Picard in "Lower Decks", she mentioned she didn't have any friends at the academy after the events of "The First Duty".
Meaning either Sito exaggerated or Mariner also turned her back on her and wasn't completely honest about it with Ma'ah.
Also, I've noticed that one member of Nova Squadron Jean Hajar is absent in this sequence.
_Meaning either Sito exaggerated or Mariner also turned her back on her and wasn't completely honest about it with Ma'ah._
If Mariner was every bit the Boimler she was in this scene, she was likely peer-pressured into turning her back on Sito and Wesley with the full cooperation of the faculty and command staff. That can mess people up, as we've seen what happened to Sito and Wesley. It could be yet another regret among the pile of regrets in Mariner's past that she's still running from, and it could be why she's decided "screw protocol/peer pressure, I'm doing what I want" in season 1.
Also makes the penultimate episode in season 3 all the more poignant. Mariner went through exactly what Sito went through, only Mariner didn't do anything wrong or remotely offensive. No wonder she resigned as soon as she was reassigned.
Yeah, this is my exact take as well. I don't think Mariner turned her back, because then the guilt over that would be eating at her.
It's likely the truth exists somewhere in the middle: Beckett's hero worship likely didn't feel like "friendship" to Jaxa, who also probably kept her at arm's length anyway just due to the differences in their age.
What I want to know is why Beckett never mentions Wesley-they would have ended up in the same graduating class, and they both grew up on the _D._
(I know that last bit isn't confirmed canon, but DANGIT, LET ME HAVE THIS! 🤣)
There is a third possibility: Sito refused Mariner's friendship to protect her from the other students at the academy. Makes sense that Sito wouldn't want Mariner to suffer due to her mistake.
@@Roreck86I like this possibility.
Jean Hajar is the 5th cadet in the opening shot, who waves and runs back the other way before we close in.
I love this flashback it's so cool we get to see this.
Anyone else come here right after re-watching “The First Duty”?
What a tribute to one of my fav bajoran...
I do appreciate the fact they tied this show into homaging the original Lower Decks episode was a “chef’s kiss”
He’d definitely have been one of those captains that gets their entire ship killed and than tries to weasel out of any responsibility. Ego is a trait no commanding officer should indulge in unless it’s tempered by the desire to help, Kirk always had an ego but he always would try and save people.
I really want to see a prequel movie about Mariner during the Dominion War; how she went from being a bright, chirpy, Boimler-type here to the cynical jerk-with-a-heart-of-gold she was at the start of the series. Maybe show her going on a secret mission with Riker, General K'orin, and Quimp the Ferengi.
Hearing Shannon Fill's voice, almost 20 years after leaving acting. It really hits you and as Spock once said: "There are always possibilities"
It's just a stranger than fiction sort of thing...where Fill talked about how nervous she was in Lower Decks, to now...a series named after that episode and her return. I wonder if she felt as if life was coming full circle.
Not many of us have such an opportunity, so seeing someone have such an opportunity, happy for her.
I always felt Sito's death in Lower Decks to be an afterthought and trivialized...also for Picard to be so irresponsible in giving an ensign such a dangerous mission. This is about as close to 'righting a wrong' as we will ever get.
0:04 Ah, I guess Jean Hajar is in the episode after all. At least I'd like to believe that's her waving to the rest of Nova Squadron before running the other way.
There's a theory I read that I have a hard time dismissing-Jean Hajar would, in retrospect, be the *most obvious assumed name* for a Dominion infiltrator...
I'm guessing the actress probably wasn't available, they didn't want to recast and they decided showing her leaving before the start of the conversation was less awkward than having her there but not talking.
@@wendyheatherwood They managed to track down Shannon Fill for Sito Jaxa.
@urbypilot2136 I don't mean that they couldn't get in contact with her. I meant that she might have been busy, unable to get to studio when they needed or just wasn't interested.
0:27 The sound booth really brings out a different voice in the actors, like how people speak differently over the phone. I don't think Wes had this kind of vocal energy at any point in Wheaton's _TNG_ career. The same went for Newsome and Quaid when they did the crossover episode. People shout and enunciate more when they're looking at a microphone instead of another person.
They're also in an animated comedy, which allows for more exaggeration in acting
I forgot Mariner Isnt *always* the tough jockette she think she Is woth her nerider side to her.
A war can do that to you.
I still think my favourite line from her that shows the nerd slipping through is 'OH MY GOD WE GET TO DO SOMETHING ON VOYAGER?!'
@@carlzerris6566 "Marinerd" has the potential to be some of the cutest thing in the show, if not possibly in general. What we know about her as she currently is, her behaving in a nerdy way comes across as pseudo-ooc in the best possible way, and it also serves as a nice insight into what she was like before her trauma.
I do hope Mariners nerd side she tries to hide comes out more in season 5. Then the group can all go admire the warp core together.
The warp core is dumb....😅
Mariner and Sito remind me of me and my best friend and now I'm pretty sure I'm gonna cry
'ittle Mariner is so cute! Look at her shes gonna be a space badass one day but now shes 'ittle!
0:35-0:38 Picard: wanna bet son… 😡
Yes, they all went out with a bang! Except Wesley. He 'ascended'.
You think he ever visited the Q Continuum? Oh, and the Black Mountain?? Oh, Oh! And met the Koala itself WHY IS HE SMILING WHAT DOES HE KNOOOOWW!!!
Jean too. Died in the Dominion War.
When the Defiant blew up her fighter.
(I'm going all in on the Jean Hajar = Founder theory)
@@GSBarlev wouldn’t seeing as the wormhole was found a year after this.
@@Hartzilla2007 She could be one of the _Hundred._
This show is incredible.
Considering that Wil managed to do a convincing teenage voice, can we have him be the LD's Q?
"Josh are you sure?"
"Eessh"
RIP Josh...RIP.
I kinda wondered what sort of path Mariner would've taken had Nova squadron actually did pull off the starburst maneuver.
I mean realistically Nova Squadron still would have been in hot water at best or gotten expelled at worst since they still did a banned move that could have gotten a lot of people killed.
Does anyone think Nick kinda looks like Tom Paris or is it just me?
Believe it or not, we actually could've gotten stuck with this idiot on Star Trek Voyager!!!😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬 Thankfully the writers thought better of it and created the new character of Tom Paris for the actor.🤩🤩🤩
I don't see it
It won’t be easy, staying here on campus, everybody knowing what you did. You have hard times ahead of you. 😢
Mariner with her sempai. Very Cute.
It’s nice to see mariner as a peanut 😊
This was such a great scene!
If Mariner started the academy at 18, 13 years ago, then that means she is about 31 right now
Huh, you're right. Explains a lot of her behavior as well, it's an early life crisis.
Remember, Mariner was a prodigy that so many officers had high hopes for.
so she must have been way younger.
Going by Wesley, she could have been between 16-19 at least.
Boimler did say "we're like the same age" in the first Episode so prodigy Mariner started like at 13/14 or Boimler started late. In Beta canon Admiral Ross graduated at age 25.
I wonder how Mariner at first handle hearing that her hero recklessly got one her teammates killed and then conspirer to coverup? Then what did do when Sito was getting ostracize and possibly builled by the other cadets?
I can imagine this was all the start of her bad reputation among her peers. Spying on Locarno for evidence and getting into fights with anyone who badmouthed Sito.
@@jordanloux3883@jordanloux3883 I think Mariner would be really mad at Sito at first, feeling like "Don't meet your heroes" kind of emotion, and that's when she started acting out in anger. But Sito did mange to convince Mariner she was really sorry and wanted to reddened herself as a good role model for Mariner.
@@nolanueno1060 Yeah... and then she died on an unauthorized mission.
You just know she's got a grudge against Picard.
They'll remember... end caps covering the end of this video 😵
I mean, his wish was granted. No one will forget Nova Squadron... the name was of course, retired in disgrace.
No it wasn't. Prodigy's Nova Squadron is better. At least they can pull off the daredevil moves without getting themselves killed.
@WarGrowlmon18 why are you all over these comments
I cant believe tgey got alk the voice actresses and actors. And kond of weird how they tie a tragic event to somewhat humor into it.
Comedy and tragedy are two sides of the same coin.
in the blackest night, no klingon shall escape my sight
Sito Breaks my heart. And Picard TNG Lower Decks in the top 5
I love seeing characters from live action Star Trek in cartoon form.
I wonder how old Mariner was back then when she went to the academy.
I'm thinking at least 18.
My personal guess is that she was 18, making her birth year 2350 and her present age in LD 31.
@@Brasswatchman 51 @ Picard season 3
She's in her first year, and we saw that Wesley Crusher was able to apply for the academy at age 16 for presumably the following academic year. So, probably 17-18 depending on when her birthday is.
@@patrickwilkinson7351 She's also a bit shorter than she is in the show's present day, isn't she? Maybe she _is_ 16 here, with a birth year of 2352. That would make her 29 in 2381, and 49 in 2401. Sure, they tend to let only real prodigies in at that age, but Mariner's never exactly suffered for lack of talent, has she? I could see it.
0:21-0:42 Is it just me or do those animation frames seem too fluid? So it reminded me of the animation style used for the movie America The Motion Picture ',:v
i love how they kept the 80s architecture futurism, putting some random 2020s minamalist style would've been a disservice
0:20 whys this guys animation at 60 fps while everyone else looks like their at 30 fps
Mariner Look so young and cute ❤❤❤❤
Oh my God she was just like Boimler
Coincidentally, I was in Air Force ROTC at the same time Wesley was attending Starfleet Academy. Wesley got scandalized by the Nova Squad accident, and then shortly later I got disciplined for a sexual harassment charge. Later, Wesley defied Captain Picard and quit the academy. The shortly later, I got disenrolled for pulling a prank on my university. So my skeletons in the closet with ROTC mirrored Wesley’s dirty laundry with Starfleet Academy.
I forgot what episode this was and said "is that Tom Paris??" 😅
Believe it or not, we actually could've gotten stuck with this idiot on Star Trek Voyager!!!😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬 Thankfully the writers thought better of it and created the new character of Tom Paris for the actor.🤩🤩🤩
Those are some old-ass sounding cadets.
Sito Jaxa was Bajoran right?- If so, that makes her death all the more sad given she was killed by Cardasians - given there species’ histories.
That's why she was chosen for the mission, and why it's especially tragic. She was the only one who could have pulled it off, no one else could, and she still volunteered because it was the right thing to do.
Look at her nose!
I feel like maybe Sito will still be alive next year in S5
"Another shocking twist!"
I doubt it, doing that takes away from the gravitas of her death and all it's meant for the franchise. Like what happened with Tasha Yar.
@@Rassilon001They've already done that with all the maquis characters, like Ro and Thomas Riker. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again, for better or worse.
Doubt it, but it would be nice if Mariner met Joret Dal, the Cardassian spy who was part of the mission that got Sito killed. I think it would be good closure, showing that Sito's sacrifice wasn't senseless and did help prevent battles that saved lives, even though they couldn't stop the war.
I appreciate the motivation they tried to give Mariner, but it’s a little funny that she could go through the entire Dominion at DS9 can’t be that tortured by what happened to Zito.
could you rephrase this in a way that makes sense to english speakers
How old is Mariner there. And hoe old is she in the Main Show?
Well she was a new recruit likely at 18 with a 13 year flash back so probably 31
@@sidewire8777 OK. thanks.
@@legionaer1125 Depending on exact birthdate 30-32 assuming she got into the Academy close to as young as possible. Boy genius Wesley first applied at 16. Normal is 17/18.
Presumably 17 or 18. Wesley was able to apply at age 16, presumably for the next academic year when he would have been 17. So 17-18 in the flashback, 30-31 depending on when her birthday is.
You know, it would have made sense for Tom Paris to have just been him in Voyager, seeing how Tom was so hyper competent at everything despite supposedly being a dropout, being a former Nova Squadron candidate totally tracks for that. I'm pretty sure there was some BS about royalties being payed to a writer to keep using the character name, which is why they used to the same actor but made him a different character right?
I think so
pretty sure they rightly assumed it would be a much harder sell to give a redemption arc to someone who knowingly covered up the cause of the accident and pressured his squad mates into doing the same
That did not sound like Crusher at all. Was it not Wil Wheaton??
he just aged
No it's him, he's just older. He returned for this, Prodigy and Picard.
Where's the fifth member, the one who died during the event?
The other dude is the one who died (the one who isn't Wesley or Locarno)
Yeah as @EtanRedKnight says, the one who died (Joshua Albert) is the other guy with them. But if you watch closely at the beginning of the clip there's a woman with them who stops, waves at them and then turns around and runs back in the direction they came from. That has been presumed to be Jean Hajar, the fifth member.
So wouldn't this make Mariner around 40 in LD?
Am i the only one sad that Locarno died?
I was preferred he was arrested and sent to jail, to see others to graduate and fly, while him will never see the stars again.
Nah, because he already proved that he can't learn from his mistakes.
@@nicholasfarrell5981 Who said anything about teach him anything in jail?
Boothby easter egg.
Gave us one in Prodigy too: Nova Squadron's Boothby Supernova
Prodigy's Nova Squadron is better. At least they can pull off the daredevil moves without getting themselves killed.
wild that they didn't retire the name
So Mariner got the Metamorphosis/Emergence treatment but with war?
...Did not expect "this" reference in this comment section. But also can't technically argue it either, she got messed up HARD. It's almost as sad as Emergence given how we see her here when she was younger and just starting out yeah.
@@SalinaMoonfall Becky needs to find Josuke
@@targetseeker *nod nod* It is the true ending.
academy mariner is cute
So 13 years means that Mariner's in her later 20s/early 30s?! (I assume you wouldn't start at Starfleet Academy until you are at least 13-14)
Early 30s if the wiki is right that people enter Starfleet Academy at 18 usually.
Academy first years usually seem to be in their late teens (or species equivalent), so probably 17, 18. So… if we assume that, 31 maybe? Which would explain all the time for all the demotions.
@@FrogworfKnight Wesley was 16 the first time he applied.
@@Hartzilla2007 Yeah but its Wesley.
None remembers Nova. Green Core matters.
Sito who died horrible....
and no one ever did
How old is mariner 40 and still an ensign
Early 30s and a lieutenant junior grade.
@@wendyheatherwood Also anyone in Starfleet can remain Ensign like that one episode Q got Picard's timeline to change from being stabbed, he never moved up and became basically old Picard but stuck forever as an Ensign because he lacked the spine to move up
I wish Hajar could have been there (looked like her at a distance running off before getting close to the group). That said, this scene feels a little too wink/nudge since the audience is essentially familiar with where this is going. Frankly, it would have been better if it took place before Locarno proposed the Kolvoord Starburst maneuver so we could really see this group without anything clandestine hovering around them that makes Wesley or Josh nervous or bothered. Might better show how Nick was a huge cult of personality to the squad that could lead the other 4 to such immoral behavior. After all, if we see them as all good friends, it makes it that much stronger to believe that there is guilt and remorse when you get to _TNG: “The First Duty”_ over the loss of one of their own and equally the fact they have no one to blame but themselves for not wanting to be the turd in the punch bowl because they were so arrogantly blinded by Nick’s charm that they could pull it off and just went along.
I can't help but feel that this should have Been Boimlers story and would explain why he's such a prude for the Rules!
Make makes no sense.
Is Mariner friends with every single main character in Star Trek? It's kinda weird.
It was such a waste,to just kill her off on next generations. Just when she was at the beginning of her redemption ark.
It was one of the best episodes of TNG they have ever made, but then they ended the show out of the blue. I know everyone thought they had one more season because of the contracts.
Not all stories get a proper end. That's life.
💯 Agree. I made the mistake of re-watching _TNG's_ "Lower Decks" after the _LDS_ finale. Bawled like a baby for half an hour straight.
Yeah, it's a great episode. Yeah, her death had power _because_ of her backstory, and yeah, that death was *the point* of the episode (a reminder that every redshirt that dies is their own Sito Jaxa).
But I can hold two contradictory views in my head at once.
@@GSBarlev yeah i mean her death actually mattered. and its nice that lower decks still caries that death on after all this time.
The crew from lower decks seems to have more adventures than some captains and the bridge crew. This negates the premise of Lower Decks where the crew always complains of getting the worse responsibilities.
The idea might be that even the lower decks are having adventures, and as they rank up itll only become more intense.
Picard is directly responsible for Sito's death. Sito wanted nothing to do with the Kardashians, Picard forced her into it.
All of NU TREK is awful crap by Star Warsians who think they can come and annex Trek, but this little clip...huh! That was a bit interesting. Aside from that wierd chatter mouth girl who interrupted, I thought this was perceptive. I'm intrigued
This proves that Mariner is in love with Boimler
♪Boimler and Mariner Sitting in a tree. K-I-S-S-I-N-G♪
no she just don't wanna see anyone hurt
Rick and Morty Trek is total garbage.
Good thing this is Lower Decks then, not Rick and Morty.
@@supersonicheroes Can't tell from the artwork, or lack thereof
@@sabrewolf4129 More like your lack of good taste.
@@supersonicheroes LOL, damn you a special kind of short bus stupid. The whole fucking show is Rick And Morty in Space.
@@sabrewolf4129 sure sure
Here we go. One of the reasons why this show sucks. They have to magically insert Mariner into everything. She is nails on a chalkboard annoying along with Boimler. The faster this show gets shitcanned the better.
You know nothing about this show and the love it gives the entire franchise. Honestly, I feel bad for you.
@@supersonicheroes Easter eggs are not a substitute for story. Mariner is a bullshit Mary Sue.
@@supersonicheroes They didn't just have Mariner pop up there. Here they basically showed that she was a young fangirl of the Nova Squadron. It was mentioned in the previous episode that she admired Sito, and death of Sito shattered her and set her on the path her life has taken. From the beginning a big part of Mariner's story is that she is very reckless and over the seasons they've given us hints about why she is that way. This episode is culmination of that story.
The reason Mariner tends to pop up in many places is because she's had five assignments before this one which lead her to have a great deal of experience. The reason she just got promoted to LT Junior Grade is that she self-sabotaged herself, repeatedly being promoted and then demoted. Without the self-sabotage she could have been a Captain by now.
Meh...bad episode.
Care to elaborate on why you believe that or...?
@@Rassilon001 Nirpicking nerds explains it very well. ua-cam.com/video/5DG9tvWWuMw/v-deo.html
@@carllanger8873 clown
@@IronheartvsMiles why is that?
Why didn't they have Cadet Hajar in the episode if they were gonna have the other 4 people in it with Mariner? They had Wes, Nick, Sito, Josh, and Mariner?? lol