Recreating Hannibal's Cannae online!
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- Опубліковано 31 січ 2014
- Find out how to channel Hannibal's military genius to achieve online victory! This tactic is derived from the great general's spectacular double envelopment at Cannae. The crux of this tactic is to use a flexible middle line to pull the enemy in and then employ deep infantry formations on the flanks to collapse on the enemy line as it gets pulled in.
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The tactic works well but the only thing is, you have the numerical advantage which makes it easier to surround his troops. Hannibal had around 50k troops while the romans had over 80k. In that situation the tactic would be much harder to pull off
Actually, irl it worked just because of that. Romans had high discipline and since they thought they had the advantage they charged without realizing Hannibal's trap. If they had the similar manpower or less, most likely they would have fought more defensively and be more cautious. Since this is a video game with many flaws, more men makes it way easier.
also Hannibal deployed his troops convexly and had the stronger troops on the wings while the centre gave ground - he didn't start with a groove in the line as this would have given his plan away
+Early Crowd high discipline didn't make them advance into that mass. These were raw troops and breaking the 3 lines of the triplex acies and pressing together showed their lack of discipline
We shouldn't ignore the many points when the Hanniball's strategy could've failed, every battle is controled chaos, the cavalry might have not come back, the front might not have hold on as good as they did, etc.
Also, the terrain counted a lot, there wasn't a lot of room between a hill and a river, so that made the Roman bunch up more and more.
But that's what makes Hannibal (in my opinion) unparalleled as a general, he could read the terrain and make up an original tactic that makes total use of it as well as knowing the enemy very well, knowing their strenghts and turning them to weaknesses.
Experts graduating from wikipedia up in this thread
Im pretty sure Hannibal was massively outnumbered during the battle of cannae. Here, it looks like you outnumber your opponenet.
+SuperEpicAwesomeness it's a multiplayer battle so I doubt he is outnumbering him
and worse his opponent is passive like letting him do his show...
actually hannibal outnumbered the romans at cannae, this is why this tactic was quite the gamble. the main reason why he lost is because of the morale effect on his troops.
That is categorically false. The romanshad about 85 thousand men of you include the two legions they had in their camp while Hannibal had about 55 thousand.
Sarcasm Intensifies thougt the same😂
2:40 SOLDIERS! PREPARE FOR SMILEY FACE FORMATION
XD
deathsheep lol
Smiley asian mustache formation
lol
can you imagine coordinating these strategies from the field? let alone creating them!
SWAG POLICE i have no idea how you could direct 85,000 men, no wonder the romans lost lol
SWAG POLICE The real deal was far less management intensive. He let the Romans batter his line into a bow before throwing his Libyans in to pin the flanks and swinging his Numidian cav round to completely encircle them.
SWAG POLICE Because Hannibal put himself directly in the front line with his Iberians and gauls troops. So he better could control the situation..
Roman lol
alvi syahri my god you know nothing about history just leave
Hannibals men were veterans, crossed the alps, fought and won numerous battles. But people never give them credit they always say hannibals genius. Which is true but don't undermine the men who pulled it off.
Absolutely. To have faith in your general for such a move and to execute it in such a way.
Oliver S. Hannibal the money swindler, the used car salesmen, the ladies man. He is Hannibal Silver Tongue
@@boxedferrotinc2290 I don't think he was. That many men wouldn't of followed him if he kept losing battles and was known to be a liar. From what I recall reading, he lived among them rather than in a noble/officer's tent away from the common rabble, ate the same food, and didn't want any preferential treatment. Aside from that, he also kept winning battles, which tends to keep the morale of your men up since most of them get to continue to live another day.
Ashelm56 it was but a joke mate
I was using this, won about 3 battles than ran into someone who had also watched this and had the same formation but he was Rome and Carthage. I love how basically any faction can do it.
woah thats funny, wonder how it turned out
THFE Productions It was a costly victory for the other guy:/ Rome's infantry was too strong
Just like the battle at zama
@@broncofan0015 the battle of zama was won because scipio promised the numidian commander to make him king of numidia if he fought on his side rather than hannibal. Seeing that the war was going badly for carthage the numidians left and fought for the romans. I think if carthage had the unrivalled strength of the numidian cav then it would have been another carthage win as they proved to be so useful at the battle of trebia and cannae
I just got in a quick battle with Oakley, he attempted to use this tactic as carthage. I was using a roman build somewhat made for the same tactic. I ended up enveloping him and winning. I then came on youtube, saw this, and laughed at the irony. Thanks for the match Oakley.
yeah hahaha I was gonna show that battle if its ok
you did a great job showing what the romans should have done at Cannae. Actually that battle we had was perfect and I'll use it to talk about how hannibal used the terrain and his knowledge of the roman commanders to funnel the romans into his trap
yea go ahead and show it if you want, it was very fun
lol
This is not at all how hannibal did it, he had all his light infantry in the center and heavy on the flanks, so what he did was he made a straight line and let the romans push, the cented got pushed back while the flanks held until they were in a wedge, then the cavalery came in from behind, surounding and slaughtering the enemies
That is wrong as well, he made a crescent which was weakened in the middle.
WJ Cooke he also ordered his units too retreat on purpose
You can’t actually do his tactic properly in Rome 2 as troops just break.
I believe he made a left crescent position on his foot soldiers. While in battle the position had shifted reversed crescent and that made his cavalry to easy flank without escape the roman foot soldiers
Recreating the battle of Cannae in Rome II will never work. Because push system doesn't exist in Rome 2.
This was great thanks for the demonstration. I think more of these historically adapted tactics would be great to see.
This is awesome! I’m a huge fan of Hannibal and it’s a beautiful application of his tactics. This is my new favorite channel!
Simply awesome ! I like your channel because you always come up with these kinda tricks and strategies ! Good work and keep it up ! I am looking forward to see more tactics !
Peace (y)
Neat formation, simple but effective plus no one really is going to expect it, very kl
This is incredibly helpful and awesome. Great thinking Oakly, thanks. Very interesting food for thought to thinking up new tactics!
Cool vid! Just found your channel and i like the tactic vids :))
That's just awesome. Awesome tactics. Thanks a lot for the good watch!
very cool video, please do more like that! I Enjoy seeing tactics like this applied on the battlefield :D
It's pleasure to watch your plays and hearing the detailed explanation of the situation. I don't personally play against other players (due to the fact that I hate playing with people whom I don't know), but looking at these battles and tactic it makes me want to do some PvP. I'm now subscribed to this channel.
That was great keep it up. I wouldn't mind seeing some of Alexander's tactic in action
It would be great to see more tactic videos!
Was looking for some historical formations in total war games, which brought me back to this video. Sadly, there only seems to be your videos on Hannibal's Cannae formation and the triple acies. Is it possible to get more videos on historical formations, such as the squares and cavalry tactics used by the Byzantines against their Persian and later Muslim adversaries and - as you did here - cover how to implement said formations and tactics in total war games?
Very nice. It's always great to see some inspiration from real world tactics besides the basic hammer and anvil make it into a battle. It's interesting seeing the decisive arm being skirmishers instead of cavalry in your "Cannae", but that's why Total War is awesome.
I think it would also be interesting to see how to counter these tactics, or how people might do so.
It’s definitely one thing to envelop your enemy when you have more troops. It’s a whole other thing to envelop 80,000 when you have 40,000. Differences were that Hannibal relied on an offensive attack from romans, otherwise he wouldn’t have been successful, secondly he relied on the usage or reserve troops and a cavalry victory to allow a triple front enclosure to be an exposed rear for his cavalry to strike at Roman morale. His formation was that of a bow bent facing the romans which had flexible wings that then expanded to encompass them. It’s a risky strategy because if the romans had an intention to surround him they would’ve done so easily, but because of how commands are, the troops sent to charge wouldn’t have that flexibility. In this sense it’s definitely not possible to employ that strategy as Hannibal did in multiplayer because players are able to quickly reorganize their troops and change their plans. If you were in multiplayer with a 2:1 ratio favoring the opponent, Hannibal’s cannae strategy would not be recreateable.
Hi. First I wanted to thank you for the awesome quality of your videos, specifically the documentaries you are making. Very interesting.
I know those videos are a but old but I wanted to say that your tactic makes me think more of the Persian Immortals (heavy reliance on ranged attack) than Hannibal's (reliance on cavalry). Which is a perfectly fine way to use pikemen offensively I discovered specially if you have access to good ranged units. Please keep up the good work :)
Is it just me or does it seem like Invicta has a larger force?
I LOVE this video!!! Now I want to try replicating it in my own Total War games. Question on it/request for another video. From what I've read, the Romans used this Cannae as a blueprint for future battle strategies, even into the Medieval period. Can we get a video showing an adaptation of this for the cavalry heavy armies of the Byzantine Empire (possibly using M2TW, Attila, or both)?
show us MORE of this!!!
7:52 - that "EPIC AF" replay gets me everytime.
very nice tactics to use, by the way ,, how do you download the 2 extra files with the mod manager for Ancient Empires Mod, It is released today except for Part 1 which will be released 2 pm cst.
Nice tactics mate, subscribed ur channel.👍
More of this!
Loved Total War Rome 1
Seeing this makes me itchy.
Great graphics and details.
Are the Units equal powered?
this is so cool to watch!
The Roman formation was a block formation, not a long stretched out rectangle, but a short rectangle. It also had an extra formation at the center rear.
The Roman battle plan was to split the center of Hannibal ' s line of Spainards and Gauls, and then divide into two groups to overwhelm and in circle with the extra center rear group.
Hannibal did the opposite: a weak center, strong African mercenaries on the rear flanks, and cavalry which, after destroying the Roman cavalry, attacked from the back, closing the trap.
Awesome Video. Do more historical strategies like this.
So how would you counter against this strategy if you were on the other side and it was presented to you
Awesome video man.
SInce when hanibal in cannae had the numerical advantage?
you should use this strategy as the romans, oh the irony.
and more videos about different tactics and you using them would be really cool.
htf do you get a group to hold formation like that when you move them? if you do the normal hold down right click and drag it redeploys them into a line everytime???
Shrill select all the units you want ij formation and press ctrl g. That groups them AND locks their formation. Hope that helps :h
One thing I really love about Total War games is that studying real life strategies and applying them actually pays off in these games. It's not a perfect system but it's way better than other RTS games where it's just who has the most range or hp
Is Total War a RTS game?
+Haagen yes real time stratagy
@@Frazful the battles are RTS, the campaign map is a sim.
And APM
Nice tactics man,but i have a question,how do you do that thing with the camera at 6:25??
Do you think you can re make Alexander's tactics at the battle of Gaugamela?
It might be possible but probably hard to recreate given the fact that Darius ran before being engaged and thus created a major morale blow to his army. In rome 2 the generals hold up much better than this and the morale system isnt quite the same
Yeah your right, do you think they should change the morale system in another patch?
THFE Productions You know a lot of the time when I play as Carthage I always use my elephants to flank the enemy and take out there general while my troops engage with most of the army. I do have to admit even though the moral system isn't perfect in ROME 2 this normally does work for me.
THFE Productions Also another problem would be to try and make the entire enemy Calvary to follow your and then perform that sharp turn into the enemy centre.
Hey, would you mind telling me how to after having set your unit formation, you click and they all advance maintaining it? just like he does at 2:26. Thank you.
Also I hope you keep making videos, yours are awesome.
You have to put them all in a locked group, hit "control" + "g"
thank you! :D
?
Hannibal had cavalry advantage and they where the final move that made Cannae into a masterpice. The cavalry attack the enemy from behind making them completly surronded and trapped in a tight box.
+Peter Magro Yea I was thinking perhaps he should've replaced the 2 backup skirmishes with 2 more units of cav to outflank after locking up the enemy cav; would've been able to attack from behind and break the whole army in a few seconds.
more of this plz!!
What is the game you use to demonstrate? it looks amazing!
Total war: Rome II
Please try the triplex axis! That'll be cool to see
Спасибо тебе огромное за воссоздание тактики такого военного гения как Каннибала
Can you recreate Caesar vs Pompey
How did you get that paint? Is it a mod or something?
This man is underrated.
Use the triplex acies I've already used it my self and it works like a charm!
Nice example of thinking out of the box, gg.
Hannibal used a bull horn formation, finally using a crescent formation to encircle the romans.
This is awsome !
what game it is?
id like to see how you could counter this formation if it was me playing i would disperse my forces and try to get you to break formation
I am actually uploading a video on just that
hey i tried it with cartaghe, and it goes very well! the key is to have some reserves at your back, but it goes fine against pike and cav armies
Have you tried using the Divide et Impera mod? Frankly right now vannila TWR2 is shockingly arcade-like which for the most part makes tactics like this ridiculously hard, impossible or just lowers their effect. While tactics are apparent, troop type, rock paper scissors effects and a Units silly "special abilities" matter more. With the DeI mod it changes the focus back to slower battles, tactics, positioning and big brawls. For instance you could realistically copy Cannae where your centre is engaged but starts to fall back, drawing them in by having the enemy follow the withdrawing troops. I find it makes battles a hell of a lot more fun, realistic and that means that real-world tactics can be utilised more easily and have much more of an effect.
I've heard of this mod but never used it. I heard they are working on a Rome II Total Realism mod... its gonna be a while but when they are done I think itll have similar results
Well they have already released their work in the Steam Workshop and are regularly updating it while they progress. It is already very much worth your while to check it out.
this is more like Ilipa where Scipio used a reverse cannae
anyway, i recomend to do it slowly, skirmish for a while, and let the enemy get nervous, and advance slowly and disciplined
Awesome tactics, could you show it more in action?
Its a bit hard in a battle like this where I have to focus a lot on control. I could save the battles and rewatch them from a 3rd person camera but sadly replays are still bugged
I understand, no worries
THFE Productions pls do more or if you have more online tactics vid already just say their names
@@InvictaHistory can we have some more Rome 2? I really want more! No need if you don’t want though!
Hannibal Barak was a library genius !
Yes triple X please, I really enjoyed this video !
What if your opponent spams swords like the romans did?
Hannibal's tactics are effective when the opponent doesn't have bird's eye view.
Do triple acies vs. Hannibal tactics
where did you get your information on historically accurate tactics? I know the progression of battles like Cannae are not hard to find but the way army's work and their typical behavior still elude me. Rome gives me a slight Idea but the way you control your troops and the fact battles take minutes rather then hours makes me think historical accurate tactics would differ allot.
Tactics come from the various books I have read on the Punic wars. They will obviously differ greatly when compared to the eye in the sky generalship of a game but you can often get strategies that are similar in spirit
THFE Productions Have any books you recomend?
first, hannibal have smaller troops in the battle of cannae. second, hannibal tactics depends on how his calvalry routed enemy cavalry as fast as posible while the main foot soldier along with him slowly move backward yet not to retreat so the mercenary on the reserve able to suround the enemy sides. when enemy cavalry has been routed and mercenaries are on the sides of enemies, foot soldier stops and stand their ground while hannibal cavalry close the enemy escape route. when th enemy completely surounded, then began the harassing and slaugthering of roman army.
1:54 Hannibal had the line curved the other way to start the battle. So the middle was closer to the romans than the sides to begin with, then gradually transformed into that shape
What game is this?
how do you do that draw thing
click on the pallete on the bottom right of your screen, it should be just above the map but is only really visible while you play and not in set up
looks good to me, I'll have to try it.
That mic POP though
Hannibal has awoken from his grave to see this.
which game is this .
I know that battle but which is this u played in this game.
+ali asghar
Total War: Rome 2.
I did this once COMPLETELY by accident, but it worked: cavalry even swooped in from behind for the full envelopment
He was completely frozen and didnt know what to do lol.
the first decisive Victory I have ever seen on Rome 2 Total War online battles
What is the game's name please
Id like to see this strategy used more soo cool
lol at 7:53 epic as fuck at the top XD
more tactics, please :)
This is great
Hannibal used his Gauls at the front, his Numedian and Spanish cavalry at the left and right flank and he held his Lybian spearmen as reserves and his formation looked a bit like this :---:
Is there a mobile game like this?
the exact same tactic used first from Miltiadhs at the battle of Marathon
I took a drink and I looked back at about 12:50 to that creepy ass smiley face. Needless to say I laughed.
Reminds me more of Illipa than Cannae since only your flanks engaged in battle, while the center of the enemy was forced to stand still as they were being flanked by you bcause of the threat of your center. Still pretty cool video, and I guess it's the same idea
Didn't he use weak infantary instead of skirmisher? I read he placed them in front and when they would breake, the strong units would come behind and on side. Sry for my english.
The front line was made of skirmishers followed by an infantry line of mixed spanish and gallic troops. These were never really entirely broken but over the course of the battle slowly pulled back until the Romans were drawn in. Actually some Carthaginian slingers are believed to have injured one of the roman generals
THFE Productions oh ok thx for that.
More!
it is very easy to annihilate the enemy troops (Hannibal)...you just pull your cavalry into the center, then as the enemy walks towards your central line with swordsmen you send the cavalry (behind the swordsmen) and you destroy the center of the enemy, then the flanks is an easy part as long as you surround the enemy flanks
why did rome stand still and commit all there troops? usually rome dosent do that and keeps 5-8 more maniples for reinforcements
I think because they had infantry superiority, over confidence in their ability to win, a nice juicy target to push in the center, and maybe the distaste for Hannibal.
Pretty much exactly what Dude said. It's one of those tactics where it works beautifully if your opponent doesn't know that you intend to do it but its hard to pull of your opponent anticipates it.
I don't personally prescribe to this line of thought but a lot of historians of the period have debated that Cannae was more of a desperate accident than a moment of tactical genius basically because it would be so dependent on your opponent doing exactly what you want them to do. Whilst I agree that it was risky for that reason and that Hannibal was partly lucky that it went right, I do think that the course of the battle went exactly as he had hoped, not that it was a lucky accident.
I remember a very different battle
good tactic. it wasn't the single formation envelopment I was expecting but good nonetheless
Absolutely nothing like the battle canne.
The first time YOU invented this tactic? Sure
Gaius Terentius Varro disliked this video.