I was having a discussion with my older brother just a few days ago he's a die hard believer on the topic of sickness disease death I said that when you die you return to the place you were before you were born and he said you didn't have a soul before you were born and sickness is caused by demons the devil it's so hard to have a reasonable Rationable Sane conversation he'd rather cling to his delusion than except reality there are certain things that I just don't care to talk about with some of the religious people in my life because they just don't get it I may as well be talking to a wall
I was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes when I was 7 years old. My parents had the church elders come in, lay hands on me and anoint me with oil. I'm still diabetic. For years, I heard every vile thing the church says about those who are not healed. We're told to have faith like a child, but even as an indoctrinated child I didn't have enough faith? Eventually I came to the conclusion that diabetes is more powerful than god... and then that either there is no god, or that whatever god there is, it is either incapable or evil.
I have schizophrenia. I was wandering around one day, hallucinations, delusional. I had been suffering for some time. The hallucinations and delusions were religious in nature. I believed I was an angel...Finally when I realized this was not the case ...I thought I was demon possessed. So I passed a church and it said on the sign outside, "expect a miracle." So that Sunday I went the church to get healed. I went with child like faith in god, the bible clearly stated," go to the elders and they pray over you and ask god what the matter is...they didn't do anything but made me confess my sins and etc. I went to the alter and started crying because I was not being healed and elder said I was crying tears of joy. I could go on and on but it was a literal hell until I checked myself into the VA and got help. An anti-psychotic was prescribed and I was symptom free going on 13 years now. I am now a atheist and a social worker helping people make real progress in their lives.
Thank you for sharing!!!! Yes how many people with your condition or other similar ailments are shamed and judged instead of helped?! I am so glad you got the proper help and are now in a position to give back
I had a rather serious, yet not legally diagnosable emotional and mental issues in my youth, for which my mom's Evangelical church leaders attempted an exorcism. It was frightening more than anything, lots of yelling, "holy" oil, prayer, and shaming. It contributed to years of avoidant (APD) traits I had to learn to manage, and I've been clinically diagnosed with CPTSD from years of religious "abuse" during my formative years. The worse my symptoms got, the more I was judged. Eventually CPS (social workers!) got custody of me and sent me to a facility up north where I got my GED and learned all about this stuff. They couldn't formally diagnose me because of my age. Eventually they sent me home again with a printed and signed legally binding contract with my parents that I was not to be forced into attending church. I'm still on a prescription to help with my depression and anxiety, and it also helps with the religious delusions and paranoia of being "watched." Social workers saved me. So, yeah, thank you for being there. The world needs more like you! I've been happily married to the same wonderful man for 32 years as of this coming November. I have a great life now thanks in large part to CPS.
My family member was in a near-fatal car accident. The airbags saved them. Most of my family were thanking God profusely, believing he saved the victim for a reason, and so on. My contribution was unwelcome: Thank the engineers who invented, manufactured, and installed the airbags! Thank the politicians who mandated them! Thank the first responders who rushed to the scene! Thank the surgeon and nurses!
Funny how their god can create an entire universe by his own power but can't cure a single patient without the requisite assistance of a human doctor. Not even the common cold.
You’re absolutely correct. Before meals I started saying thanks for the farmers, the engineers and the doctors. I say thanks to the scientific method! I thank constructors for the house above our heads and the police for protecting us. My Mom was very surprised 😅
@@ruirodtube I like the meme where religious family is sitting around the dinner table, heads bowed, saying "Thank you, Jesus." and then it cuts to a Mexican man, sweaty, in a dusty hot field of produce saying, "De nada (it's nothing)." 😂😂🤣🤣😅😅
I was diagnosed with epilepsy as a child. My mother took me to many faith healers. They took her money and all of them told her they had healed me. But they knew good and well that they hadn't because they always said that if I had another seizure, it was because I let the devil back in and my mother should beat me to drive the devil back out. I had more seizures, of course. So the church blamed me and called me demon-possessed, as did my family. This caused me severe depression and trauma on top of my suffering with the seizures. Faith healing is just blaming the victim because Christians dare not blame their lying god. When I realized that god isn't real and became an atheist, I was finally able to start healing from the emotional trauma that the church had caused me.
@arielnecessary1615, So I'm over in the Philippines living with my 2nd wife and son. With my first wife, we have a daughter who is at this time 40 with 4 children and a husband. Well about 5 years ago my daughter stopped all contact with me, never replying to my emails and such. About 4 weeks ago she started sending DM to my wife and they started chatting. My daughter had a come to Jesus moment about a year ago and 2nd wife is Christian. So wife says my daughter wants to talk to me on the phone and hands me the phone. " Hi dad" was the best part of the phone call that lasted about 1 minute. Did she update me about my grandchildren? No. Did she tell me how life was going with her and her family? No. Right off the bat I started getting a religious lecture on how I needed God and Jesus in my life. Everything wrong in the past and present was because God and Jesus were not in my life. I told her that I do not need a religious lecture ( was Christian for over 40 years). What happened? My daughter screamed in the phone " YOU JUST HATE GOD!!!" and hung up, have not heard from her since. Guess she forgot about the 5th commandment about honoring your father and mother. She told my wife she found her calling, to be a theologian. Guess she forgot the Bible forbids women to preach the word. She has taken her entire family down the religious rabbit hole. Since my daughter is part Filipino, she had a Buddha statue on display for good luck. Well her 12 year old son pointed it out as they had forgot about it. Went to his mother and father and told them they have a false idol. So the family gathered around poor Buddha, carried him to the trash and tossed him in. They then held a prayer circle praying to God and asking for forgiveness for having a statue of a false god in their house. Religion poisons the brain and kills critical thinking skills.
Everything good that happens is because of God. Everything bad that happens is your fault. That's basically what I was taught growing up in the church.
And how very useful it is for those who've worked themselves into the position of speaking for their god/gods. Such a wonderful tool for keeping people under control, and (of course) giving.
My dad died of lung cancer in 2010. He had an initial successful surgery, and I (already an atheist for many years) had to listen to family friends exclaim to me “God is so good!!”. His condition quickly deteriorated and he eventually died. Silence from the faithful. It still pisses me off when I think about it. That experience is also what I cite when someone pulls the “no atheists in foxholes” nonsense. I wanted him to survive more than anything ever, but never once did it even occur to me to ask a deity for help. Not Thor, not Vishnu, not even gentle Jesus meek and mild.
I'll never understand how people can resist from punching those assholes in the face when they tell you that your parent dying is a good thing I really admire the self control
the thing is in times of need, well in times of DIRE need, folks will accept help from pretty much anywhere, if i actually thought i was going to hell and i actually thought i would be burned alive forever, i'd sign up right away - i'm not stupid. asking god for help doesn't mean you believe there is one there, is desperately asking for help from whoever is listening, i regularly thank the universe when things go well - just in case. doesn't mean i believe the universe is actually "watching over me" in fact the reason we have religion is because being superstitious is an evolutionary beneficial trait, thinking things are "out to get you" keeps you alive longer than "i'll perform an experiment to see if this IS a tiger" and you get eaten. sadly we're predisposed to being superstitious (not religious tho').
Sorry for your father's death and I can understand all the pitiful sayings and platitudes you heard were grating. I think these people mean well, want to comfort you and fear if they take away the myth they will have nothing and nothing frightens the bejezus out of them. Brandon has said and this is true, believers have a core and atheists don't. That core is salvation. It is also fear of there being nothing, not seeing dad, mom, uncle Joe again. In heaven. Not seeing a person restored, the limb restored, the disfiguring surgery gone of not having sorrow turn to happiness in heaven.
My appendix ruptured back in 2015. My mom waited until 24 hours later from my first symptoms because my parents thought I was being dramatic, until I was sick all night and was no longer able to roll over easily the next morning. Mom also "didnt know what to do to drive me into the ER" until she called the doctor's office and they said "go into the ER". After surgery, my mom said "God saved me" and that pissed me off. The surgeon and medical staff saved my life, modern medicine saved me as my abdominal cavity had been filled with the bacteria from my appendix rupturing and it had been flushed with antibiotics. God didn’t do shit. I laid in bed for 24 hours and only got worse, only praying and waiting would have resulted in me dying.
When someone gets better: "God's plan in action! Hallelujah!" When someone dies of cancer: "God's plan in action! Hallelujah!" They literally can't lose.
Had a debate with a Christian who said prayer works, so I brought up the tornado that tore through Oklahoma in 2013. It went like this: Christian: " Prayer works." Me: " What about the children that drowned in a schools basement hiding from a tornado in 2013? You know they were praying for God to save them." Christian: " God did answer their prayers." Me: " How so? They were praying for God to save them and they still drown." Christian: " God answered their prayers by showing them mercy." Me: " Showing them mercy by drowning them in a schools basement? Instead of diverting the tornado or stopping the tornado? They were praying to live, not drown." Cue the " you hate God" type replies before door slams shut.
Eye opening way to put it. Nice. So healthy is good and being in heaven is good and not healing but living is good because... Really asking as a born atheist. I know there is a party line for why babies get super sick? Trying to remember/ put this together, how they think? Sins of their relatives? Fault of their community? Good because it teaches? Teaches what?
@percubit10 , with all due respect, honestly seeking to understand... everything, every result is positive out come no matter what? Because a book says so? Because religious leaders say so? There is always hope even if people die slowly and rot in their own skin? Because a deity wants it that way? I am so utterly confused? Does your god really kill babies in their sleep because it is part of a giant plan and those children might grow up and ruin the big plan? That is so terrifying for me to believe?!? Why not just not make the babies? If your deity is so smart, so strong how can healthy babies even be created if they might grow up and change the plans of the one you believe makes and knows everything? Why must he stop babies by causing their illnesses and slow deaths instead of just keeping their little souls safe and unharmed in the first place? Hearing that we cannot understand but must just accept is not leading me toward loving the idea of your version of what a god is. Being told to shut up, stop thinking and accept any and everything because... leads me to not believe. 10,000 preachers and more have said the exact same thing you just said and it never makes sense. Biggest question I have about your comment... why did god give us brains if we are not supposed to think? To ask? To wonder? Big hug. What you said makes me disbelieve more firmly.
Thanks to the new blood test, my dad was diagnosed with early stage of prostate cancer and with the advancement of medicine, we all knew it was a curable cancer. My siblings, born again christian aka evangelical, ask me to join them at their life centre aka church for prayers so my dad can heal in the name of Jesus, I declined the invitation. After about 10 sessions of radiation, my dad was cancer free. Of course they said their prayers worked, it was a miracle and we should all get together to thank the Lord. Sigh!!! Few months after my dad went into remission, my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer. I heard nothing from my siblings about praying for her!? Is it because they knew it was an incurable disease and no amount of prayers will heal her?
When my nephew was paralyzed in an auto accident about 10 years ago, my sister and brother laid hands on him and "claimed healing in Jesus's name" . When he remained paralyzed they decided that God must have a purpose for the affliction so that's why he wasn't healed. They never have to doubt that way.
cynthia etc: This is terribly sad. But it is also a telling illustration of the power of "God" belief. These desperate people are prepared to believe and/or tell themselves anything in order to alleviate their unimaginable distress. They did not ask themselves why their "God" had allowed this to happen in the first place. This gives such an insight into the mind of the religious. Of course, if asked, I dare say they would explain that they do not know why "God" allowed the accident and would not heal the injured boy. They cannot fathom "God's" ways. Except when they KNOW "God" doesn't like gay people and abortion and "sin" and honest atheism ... Then, suddenly, they have direct access to what "God" thinks.
Honestly, this is the only channel that I hang on to every word. The main thing that started my deconversion was the many times I’d hear people thanking god for something that involved a tragedy. An example I always use is a true one. A family had their 8 y/o daughter kidnapped, rap*d & murdered. After a year of the police, FBI, science & attorneys working in unison, the killer was found, convicted & sentenced to life w/out parole. The mother, in a press conference said, “We thank god he was found. God is good!” HER DAUGHTER HAD BEEN RAP*D & MURDERED!!! The desire to credit god in this case and so many like it is disgusting!
It's just a natural form of expression out of bewilderment or belief. No God exists at that point. Only energy. And who knows to which God because you could be calling be anything and air. There are specifics to the cult of "God" who technically is the Hebrew God who was the apostolic God of the new Christian Jewish religion who believed in a Messiah. Vs. What is now believed in a diluted derivative or of an outdated grimoire. That is how things work yet Christianity cannot put both together. And prayer or whatever if it be a mantra or something else is a thought form. Nothing else. God is outside that law of being. He basically operates on some energy constructs or takes energy from believers to manifest their desires. No such thing as a free energy exchange with this Abrahamic God of the bible.
@@njhoepner I worked in the medical "profession" for 40 years and am a poster child for one who listened to them for 60 years and have CHRONIC health issues. Those of us who work on the units in the hospitals and nursing homes do not usually get enough respect or gratitude. But I REGRET ever going into that field. Big pharma runs the industry and the doctors. I know I sound like a Right Wing conspiracy theorist, but I KNOW what I am talking about. This "trust the science" bull crap that we've been told for 3 years is just as bad as "just trust the BIBLE!"
@@dawnalawrence6584 My own take is that we as a society have chosen to rely primarily on the 'free market' for health care...which means we've chosen, whether we realize it or not, to have a health care system whose top priority is profit. Health outcomes are secondary (at best), and the welfare of those working in the system is even below that. Normal to any business run for profit. I believe capitalism and the free market are wonderful for many things, but not for everything.
Back in middle school, I had a classmate that lost a long battle with cancer. She came from a religious family, born and raised Christian much like I had been, but we belonged to different sects. We sat next to each other in the one class we had together and were good friends. She would sometimes be absent for like a week or so, being treated by doctors. I still remember the teacher walking in to tell us. As I was processing my own pain and hurt from this, I sometimes thought about her family. I don't think I could even possibly begin to understand the depths of their grief. But I usually always found myself thinking "Why do these parents have to bury their child? Why did my friend die so young?" I wasn't able to accept any excuse that would allow for it, if her purpose from birth was to suffer from an incurable illness and die young, if that was willed by some divine all powerful all knowing entity, then I do not think that entity is "good".
Earlier today a friend told me a very sad story about her 21-year-old son having become a drug addict a few months ago and all the struggles (including financial ones) that she's been going through because of that. Knowing how religious she is, I asked her what her church pastor had to say about it all and how he could help. Her answer to me was: "He just told me to keep praying and having faith so God would heal my son." After hearing that, I told her that praying would not solve the problem and that her son would only get out of the addiction through medical treatment.
I am in the beginning / questioning phase of all of this. I have binged all of your videos from the beginning over the last 10 days and am finally caught up 😅 - Thank you for doing these by the way! I have been in the non denominational /Pentecostal / fundamental vein since the early 80’s. After ‘battling for my husbands miraculous healing’ for 7 years, we lost. At the end it got very bad. He was in ICU - literally dying in real life - but we (myself, my husband, the entire extended fam, and our church body) simply refused to accept reality from EVERY SINGLE medical staff…and there were lots. Daily, each and every specialist, nurse, and med team told us that he was not going to make it….and every single day I would tell them that even though it looked so very dark, that our god was a healer and a miracle worker, you’ll see! In the last days he was alive I would have periods of fear and doubt (which I felt so guilty about) and during one of those frustrated fearful times said to our pastor ‘I don’t get it!!! It’s seeming to me that either god can’t, or he won’t. And neither of those are ok with me.’ I got a ‘loving rebuke’. But turns out, it’s looking like I was right. That was 11 years ago. I’m just now digging in to educate myself. Again, thank you for the content you are making. I’ve never been exposed to anything like it.
I am so glad, you decided to share. I can only imagine how hard that season was with your husbands passing. I know very well though, just how hard this season of questioning is and just wanted to let you know I'm here for it. Reach out along the way with any questions or hurdles you are facing. I have seen it clearly enough that once people really are open to looking at this stuff, its just a matter of time. Wishing you well on your current journey and thanks for being here and your kind support!
Life is a long journey for anyone, I’m just glad your able to see both sides of the coin, even if you don’t end up thinking like one of us🫡 You’re not alone! I was a practicing Christian for 15 years before I started to realize it just didn’t make any sense to me. Sorry about losing your husband😣 time can heal some wounds but not all. Hope you’re doing daily things to make yourself happy
It's been many years, but I lost my mom to a lengthy illness and the whole church, and me and my father, and all us kids "had faith" and refused to let anyone mention that this looked serious and she might not make it. We Weren't Allowed to think anything other than that it was god's will to heal her, and he was about to do it. She died. Several years later, I deconverted after a long study of reality. The thing that haunts me about my mother's death is this: It would have been a comfort TO HER (!!!) and to us to discuss frankly and lovingly with us her wishes, and it would have helped her if we could only had loved her through a long goodbye. We could have reminisced together about her life....laughed about some things, remembered fondly even the tears. She could have been assured that she didn't have to be brave, or pretend that she was going to be healed any minute. Why? Because a single word of doubt would have caused the whole faith thing to crash and she surely would have died, and there would be fault to go all around
Instead, we all had to keep a stiff upper lip, and pretend to the very end. She deserved better. I regret to this day that she essentially died alone with any dark thoughts that she might have had. She had to use her energy to reassure US, when she was the one who was dying and needed honesty warmth from us, not the cold wall of faith which is what we gave her.
Thoughts and prayers. I posted this on another video. Sprained my foot bad and was in a boot. For a month, I was told. Went to get my hair done when a nice young man also in the waiting area asked if he could pray for healing over my foot. I said sure, no harm, no foul. He did so, earnestly and sincerely. He asked afterwards if my foot felt better. I said no. He said it might take until the next morning. Turns out he was some sort of faith healer, because he had miraculously healed family members overnight and was now roaming the SW with a preacher doing such things. I said, OK. Needless to say, it was not better that day or the next morning. In fact, it healed along the same schedule as the doctor said it would take. About a month.
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 4 and the expenses were so high we literally were left with 1 dollar in our bank account several times. I remember saying, “the Lord gave us just what we needed…blah blah blah”. Not once being upset with him for not healing her. Even after the countless hours my wife and I prayed for her healing. I got rid of everything that I thought was upsetting the lord , regular movies, Disney movies and all kinds of carved images. Prayed prayed and prayed. Still no healing. I just knew god was going to heal her. Instead… she’d have seizures and the medical bills just kept pulling up! It’s 25 years later and I’m so ashamed for all the time and comments I made to my wife and kids about how god was going to heal her and we just have to have faith. I COULD NOT OF HAVE ANY MORE FAITH THAN I DID! This “god” is cruel!
You're completely right about the "Christian shaming". I've been living in never ending pain for the last 3 years and my doctors don't know what's going on, all while serving in the church. In May, I decided to leave to give myself a chance to question why I believe what I claim to believe and all my questions were never satisfied. This week, my ex-pastor called me for a 'meeting' where they essentially suggested that my illness is my fault because I took the vaccine (mind you I was sick even before the vaccine) and then I'm no longer at church. They don't care about my well being just fulfilling their agenda so they can tell God that tried to tell me the truth. Offended is an understatement. I'm 23 and had to drop out of a fully funded Masters degree which I was passionate about, I'm unable to work and live in the constant pain I've been asking God to heal for 3 years. Why would I choose that if God really wanted to heal me? Am I insane?
What you said at the end resonated with me. You are right. It is dangerous. I have Crohn's and was raised fundamental evangelical. To reach out and beg and beg and sob and ask for God to take this away from me just for him to tell me no was devastating. And then, to turn around and be met with my peers not only dismissing it as a matter of faith but meeting me with SCORN because I "didn't believe enough" was worse. I was left utterly alone by everyone I had ever met. Nobody supported me with words or prayer. Nobody offered to drive me to or pick me up from procedures or infusion appointments. Nobody cheered for me when I found a medication that worked. They told me I must like being sick, because if I truly wanted to be healed and asked God in genuine faith, it would be gone already. Everyone abandoned me and they cited this verse as they did it. This religion is traumatizing
Healing was probably the second biggest reason for my deconversion. For me it started when I attended an “exit ministry” Bible study (early 80s, just as the AIDS epidemic was beginning) sponsored by an independent Pentecostal congregation. It eventually became clear that the reality they said I should be experiencing didn’t match up with the one I had… the gay didn’t get prayed away. My thought then was if they got that wrong, what else could they be wrong about - and I had no further to look than my own family. Mom was born with congenitally deformed hips, Dad was probably on the autism spectrum. My sister was born with an organic personality disorder, mental health issues, cognitive limitations and a seizure disorder which made her life an absolute torment for her - and living with her traumatic. The answer Jesus gave to the question, “why was this man born blind,” “that God might be glorified” suddenly looked like the ultimate in capricious malice. One person is mutilated so it can be proved that God can undo it. For just that one, while millions of others bear unmitigated suffering. It was about then that I realized that “why” is a useless question - especially since any answer I received from Christians was either a reiteration of the same divine neglect, blame (you didn’t have enough faith, you had some unconfessed sin, your grandmother and mother didn’t pray correctly claiming the right scriptures when they were pregnant), or a trivialization of the reality I was living through… and gave me absolutely no help in trying to navigate the emotional hurricane that was my family. [EDIT - forgot to add:] God mutilated my family to teach me a lesson? Everything happens for a reason? That God is a monster. The way I ended up reframing that for myself was to say that no, there are no reasons. However, if one could say there is a gift given to humankind, it is that our capacity to learn gives us the ability sometimes to transform the horrific into lessons to inform us moving forward. For me, “why” continues to be a useless question; it seems more practical most of the time to ask “how.” “How” is where coping has the possibility of emerging.
I had a friend who died on his 18th birthday from a rare disease. Thankfully his parents took him to the hospital and the doctors did everything they could and hundreds of people were praying for him (including me). And after all of that he still died a painful death in a hospital bed on his 18th birthday. That caused a lot of doubts in my faith, and I am glad that I am were I am now, but I miss that kid.
16 years ago I had a close friend in the ministry he had chest pains. His pastor anointed him with oil and told him he would be ok. The next day I saw him at work he fell down and died right in front of me and others of a massive heart attack. We tried to revive him but he was gone. He was 30 years old
God works in mysterious ways. Some days those prayer lines can get a little jammed up. Could be God got the name wrong , cured some sinner by mistake. Nothing gets a Christian riled up like some unrepentant sinner getting cured while that sweet old lady is in a wheel chair and has the oxygen bottle. Any descent sized hospital has a little prayer room though it might have a different name. At least you don't get charged $800. For using it. I am sure the hospital is working on it. Well it's harmless you might think except for the damage it does to the mind of the person praying for a family member that gets the idea that God did not answer my prayer because I am no good or the person prayed for is no good. What a burden to put on someone and it happens thousands of times a day. I couldn't save my son.
This particular topic was the start of deconstruction for me. I cried out and cried out. I didn’t see any reason why a good god would let horrible things happen while I was genuinely seeking him.
It drives me crazy when Christians say that God "never fails," or that he "always keeps his promises." Yet if you point out a clear example of God failing or not doing what he says he would do, they just give excuses. There is absolutely no condition under which God could ever possibly fail in their eyes. If a child with cancer gets better, God gets credit for healing them. If that child dies from cancer, praise God, because that child is in Heaven now, where there is no pain or suffering. There is literally no conceivable situation where God can fail. He can sit up there on his throne, doing absolutely nothing, and he gets credit for it. No matter what bad thing happens, "his ways are higher than our ways."
The chores analogy would be more accurate if the kid has never met his dad and his neighbor brought over a note saying “your dad wrote that you should do my chores and if you have a good attitude he’ll pay you when he gets back” And it’s written on the neighbor’s stationery.
The note is also written in your neighbor’s handwriting, and when this is pointed out your neighbor says that your father dictated it to him. 😆 I’m sure we could go on and on… 😂
It baffles me whenever Christians make excuses or answers for God. That was actually a big thing for me when I was deconverting. Why am I defending an all-powerful God? It just doesn't add up. Haven't seen the full thing yet but great video! (So far)
Epicurus addressed this very thing 2,500 years ago when he asked: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” The Abrahamic religions have no good response to this entirely reasonable line of questioning. As you so concisely said: "It just doesn't add up." In a perfect world, that would be irrefutable and we'd be pretty much done and dusted with the impossible notion of an omnisciently powerful God pulling the strings of existence in one form or another for some ultimately good purpose. But no... sadly, that's not the case at all. The confabulation of utter nonsense that is religion still persists. Why? Most probably, because many people are desperate to believe in some "higher" level of existence and have been told by respected figures in society to believe in a supernatural realm ruled over by an all-powerful God that will uplift them from the often tedious, frequently miserable grind of daily life and magically grant them a brand new life that will be everlasting in the hereafter, a nebulous place (perhaps with golden streets and mansions for all!) wherein they can carelessly drift about Heaven forevermore in a state of eternal bliss. Oh, added bonus to the above-noted afterlife is the promised entertainment of seeing everyone you hate, disagree with, or that has ever harmed you in any way by way of insult, injury or doing/being anything you may have found objectionable or offensive, will be burning for all eternity in a lake of fire or subjected to a vast array of painful and humiliating torments. So that's a fun time for those who've been "chosen" by the Almighty to sing his praises in perpetuity. Oops, forgot to mention that there will be a lot of choir work involved in this gig. It just never stops, according to some people, based on "good authority."
@@martin2289 the only defence they can come up with is attacking the word "evil". How do you know if something is "evil" or "wrong"? You cannot, only god can, so try as hard as you might think of any horrendous crime, maybe it was actually well meant from god.
@@kamnale1317 Yeah, that's such a bullshit argument. Every kid knows that burning ants with a magnifying glass is "evil" even if they can't really explain why.
I’m glad that my parents always trusted doctors over prayers to help me and my sister treat medical issues we had growing up. I still contact doctors when needed and they have always come through for me due to their expertise due to studying the science of healing and comfort. Thanks for your presentation. Yes there will come a time in my life when doctors will not be able to fix me but praying will not heal me either.
Great video as always! When I was younger I had cancer and I prayed fervently that God would get rid of it. I even had the church Elders anoint me with "healing oil." Nothing helped. I had to go through chemo to get cured. Thankfully I am fine now and have been cancer-free for 20 years. I thank the medical establishment for healing me, not God!
I stopped taking ADHD medication through the nudging of a prophet of God (who later was found to be having an affair with his secretary). It kind of ruined my 20s. I went from Dean's list to dropping out of college and falling into debilitating depression and agoraphobia. Luckily I got my BA in my 30s and I'm slowly building back my life. I take responsibility for being naive enough to think it was God's will, but that proposition shouldn't have been before me to begin with.
Bingo! This very issue is what led me to questioning the Bible and to losing my faith. Unfortunately, I was so fundie that I went off needed medication for almost a decade trusting God to heal me. Even worse, when I had doubts and went to those I looked up to, they told me I was making an idol out of medicine, that I just needed to deal with curses and sin in my life, etc. I have such a better quality of life now and I can't believe how long I suffered for hoping Jesus would heal me. This is where religion becomes really dangerous and I do think these failed promises are one of the fatal flaws of Christianity.
Great video. Subscribed. My father had brain cancer. The doctor estimated his life expectancy to be 12 months. He was faithful and was blessed by church elders. He died at 13 months from diagnosis. My wife had colon cancer and was extremely faithful. She had 4 surgeries with the cancer returning each time. Each time she received blessings and prayers and every time she absolutely believed that the current cancer would be the last. The fifth time was the last as it was terminal. It seems people prayed over recuperate at no rate better than the average recuperation rate for that problem. God is limited by statistics more than lack of faith or maybe simply isn't there. And despite her continual faith she suffered horribly for 14 years in pain and nausea.
Thanks for being here and welcome to the family! I am just so very sorry to hear about your losses. I have not yet had to deal to that extent of grieving in my life yet, but i dont take it lightly. Appreciate you sharing here.
@@MindShift-Brandon I appreciate your words here and you videos. I think it is immensly important that we move away from mythos (storytelling) to logos (understanding through measurement and observation). The reluctance to loose at least the simplistic religious beliefs hold everyone back. There may be room for some sort of meditation, thankful attitude and interspection but religion seems to be a simple counterfeit of that. Take care my friend and the best of luck to you and your channel.
I'm struggling greatly. I feel like I'm caught between two hells. I'm suffering from a cervical spine disease. I have been in intractable pain and bedridden for 4.5 years. Thing of it is, I don't have much faith in the competency of medical Drs either, do to being injured by them. At this point, my trust in God and in doctors is very low. So what hope do I have then? I'm in utter despair. 😭
Your analogy with the random rewards for doing chores reminded me of B.F. Skinner's experiment, that if I remember correctly demonstrated that conditioning pigeons works even more efficiently when the positive reinforcement had an element of randomness as opposed to being systematic. This is more or less what many video game developers use to improve the addictiveness of a game through random loots, but I never thought that it could also be a factor of belief reinforcement because prayers work surprisingly close to complete randomness.
When pigeons learned that pressing the lever always dispensed food, they would only press it when hungry and ignore it otherwise. If the lever only sometimes gave food, the pigeons would spend all their time pressing it because they couldn’t be sure it would work when they actually needed it.
It took me 5 years of going up for almost every youth healing call for me to figure this out. I even believed I had been healded multiple times. It put my in such a toxic relationship with the church.
right, many times we are told we are healed, and if it comes back, its because of our sin, similar to the verse i mentioned where Jesus says as much. Toxic is right!
@@MindShift-Brandonthere is nothing toxic in our faith, the toxic is in your atheism that makes you be obsessed with us and our faith. That Is toxic, pathetic godless alone person. No respect for you and the nothingness you always bring to us and too the people who kiss digestively your ass.
Seeing this topic laid out so simply makes me think I was crazy for not losing my faith a lot faster. I'm one of those people who is probably in the autoimmune issues/fibromyalgia/CFS camps (undiagnosed because doctors have been even less useful to me than prayer) and I seriously let other Christians make me think that my illness was my fault for way too long. I repented again and again for anything and everything I might have done when I had already repented, dealt with "issues of forgiveness" when I had already forgiven, and finally accepted that maybe God had a purpose for my illness when one slightly kinder Christian suggested that instead of directly blaming me. I was also constantly told I didn't have enough faith, but I DID. I KNEW in my heart and soul that my Father was going to heal me. I was so sure I even tricked myself into thinking I was healed a few times. I also bounced back and forth between the mixed messages that said I either needed to do nothing to try to heal my body and rely on my faith in God alone, or that I needed to do everything I could to heal my body because God only helps those who help themselves. It took WAY too many years for me to wake up and realize it was all bs. About 15.
I once was a born again Christian, Having suffered for much longer than Job ever did! For the past 16 years with M.E./CFS with no end in sight( debilitating flu like fatigue, all sorts of debilitating pain,forced to be lying down 80% of the time) (Lost friends, No Job or purpose,No money, No children, No hobbies, No exercise, the list goes on)this gives you perspective that only those who have suffered can have. I only recently stopped getting on my knees every night beging god for Healing and for Spiritual help and reassurance that he is with me. I didn't get either prayer answered.
I am so sorry for your suffering. It sounds awful. It is hard when the belief in prayer gives you hope and then you realize there is no one listening. It is a sad loss that’s so many go through. I really hope you find a way to get better and feel better.
When we have a medical system with records for hundreds of millions of people, it should be easy to see which group out of which religion has widespread miraculous healing. That we can’t see any difference says everything.
yes, data is a beautiful thing. In fact on the studies done for prayer, they actually found that the group prayed did slightly worse in recovery. The thinking was that the stress of knowing people had prayed and were expecting a certain outcome slowed down their healing.
The percentage of times that a Christian survives an illness without medical intervention is equal to the percentage of times a non-Christian survives an illness without medical intervention. In other words, praying and not praying are equally effective.
If you replace “pray for something “ with the words “hope for something “, then the con trick becomes more obvious. In reality, if you hope something happens, it either happens or it doesn’t. Simple. If you pray for something to happen it either does or it doesn’t, but the religious con you by saying “god has reasons why “ They’ve played us as gullible fools for centuries
"it either happens or it doesn’t. Simple." Yes! I feel like there's also a vast lack of awarenes in simple statistical maths. People will say, "oh, there was only 10% chance to survive that type of cancer! It must be a miracle!". But often nobody points out that, just in your town, you're only one in a hundred who have survived, and on earth, one in millions. And that all these other 90% have actually died. All of them. We should count the "anti-miracles" then.
Simple and irrefutable explanation, but you would be amazed how many people fail to understand it. Or worse, they do understand it but prefer to disregard it.
I'm one of them, as it turns out. Thanks for this. I needed this. And let me tell you that it is more comforting to not believe than believe that it's gawd's will for her to suffer, OR is a cost of Eve's sin as I watch her come undone in front of me. To the first group, pound sand, and to the second, get away from me, "SATAN."
i was really sad when i knew someone with a progressively sick daughter, she was blind, disabled, unable to talk anymore or even eat but her mother believed God would heal her on earth and one day she would walk and see again, on earth, in the physical form, sadly the girl died and the mother just accepted that she was healed now, in heaven.
A friend of mine had a close family member be diagnosed with terminal cancer, and was told that with chemo she could extend her life by several years, but only if she started right then; she could not afford to wait. This woman had several children and a husband who was an "old-school" type disciplinarian. My friend really did not want these kids to end up with only him as a parent. But the problem was, the mother was certain that God would heal her and refused all treatments. She said that she had been given assurance by God that he would not let her die. Even as the months passed and she got worse, she kept saying that she wasn't going to die. When told that the odds of her living out the year when her cancer had progressed that far were almost unheard of, she said, "well, I guess I'll be the one to beat the odds." She wasn't. She finally, near the end of her life, agreed to go on treatments, but by that time it was far too late and they didn't even extend her life by a fraction of a year, and now she is gone. My friend has, at my encouraging, vented her grief and anguish to me about her family member's refusal to let medicine help her, and how angry she was that the mother kept insisting that she had faith and that was enough. But for some reason, it wasn't enough to really show my friend the folly of religion; the mother SHOULD HAVE been the correct one, if the Bible were true. But it's not, and she wasn't. And now her kids have no mother.
This spoke to me SO MUCH!! For as long as I remember I’ve dealt with this chronic stomach issue that no doctor has been able to figure out. I remembering CRYING and begging god to heal me. I was even reciting and posting healing scriptures everywhere. All to still have symptoms to this day. Meanwhile, some lady on TBN who’s been in a wheel chair for all her life suddenly just gets “healed”. I just used to think do I have to have some extreme life altering thing happen to me before I can receive healing?!
So sorry to hear about your ailment. The only thing that makes one suffer more is the false hope of healing or the confusion and blame when healing doesnt occur
Helloooo ! I am 16 years old and I am deconstructing from my christian faith. I was endoctrinated by the evangelical church for 1 year. I am still afraid of the after life. It's complicated. I really like your videos. It helps me to put things into perspective. (BTW I don't know if you'll interpret badly this but, you're cute you look like a doll❤☺️☺️. I might be direct because english isn't my native language :((
Appreciate your channel. You've helped me immensely in transitioning to atheism. The failure of prayer was the first step when I nursed my wife while she died and realised only me, the doctor and the nurses cared about my wife. God was, and always had been, silent and absent. I was a Pentecostal with all that entails. I've often thought about the emotional and psychological damage verses promising healing have caused. The gospel writers were frauds. When you pray for healing and fail, you are to blame. I'm still trying to deprogram myself years after rejecting biblical healing and prayer. It becomes a reflex action. Keep rocking Brandon. You're doing a great deal of good.
Having chronic illness all my life and chronic pain for over half of it, I literally can't count the amount of times I've been told my body torturing itself is god's plan, to go read the book of Job (again), to always pray, and to not blame faith. I didn't leave religion because of it -- intellectual honesty did that long ago -- but I sure as hell became an anti-theist due to it. The mindset is so toxic and ignores everyone who's only suffered until a tragic, unethical death. It's arrogant and cruel.
My dad suffered many chronic illnesses and pain, and eventually got cancer. People would tell him that he just didn't have enough faith and other things like that. It pissed me off when he told us people were telling him that, and he took it to heart, too. He thought he was a monster. That it was his fault he didn't get better. When he had cancer, I as well as basically everyone who knew him prayed for healing. But along the way, I realized... wait a minute... if we are praying for god's will, then our prayers mean nothing. Whatever happens is god's will, right? So I stopped praying. He died. I was technically still a Christian, but questioning at that point. The Sunday after he died, the pastor's wife prayed that my dad would be raised from the dead. She really seemed to believe that was possible. Though me and my family didn't want him to come back. Not if it meant continuing to live in the body that gave him so much pain and suffering when he was alive. Well, about a month later, the pastor's wife suddenly died from I believe it was uterine cancer that led to a blood clot that got to her brain. We later found out SHE KNEW she had cancer, but that she didn't want "the hands of man" to heal her and didn't tell many people and instead just prayed for healing. I've witness first-hand what relying on prayer and not modern medicine can do. And while my dad did die as well, we at least gave him a fighting chance because he did everything the doctors told him to do. We just didn't catch it in time. It wasn't all that which led me to atheism. But it certainly led to a lot of questions from me about prayer, healing, and all that. And now I am an atheist. And surprise, surprise, people get healed at the same rate as when I used to pray for them.
Thanks for sharing these examples. It is so sad that so many of is go through these things and what is ultimately the worst part is that its all unnecessary!
Praying only works for the one praying and using "faith" is the worst thing anybody can do. I can remember my dad (the preacher) having all of the church pray for a little girl that was bound to a wheelchair to get up and start walking. Well, it didn't happen. And when it didn't happen, he said it was because of someone in the church didn't have enough "faith" I hate it when "they" use excuses for their god. Thanks brother!
man i hate that excuse. I saw it myself so many sundays. Theres a demon in this room, one of you is worshipping satan, one of you doesnt beleive. How weak is god...
Wow! You are a friggin' sledge hammer of truth! I know there were people watching this looking to argue with you, but we're left sitting in stunned silence. ❤️
@@MindShift-Brandon honestly, the way you lay everything out is clear and powerful! I love that you don't come across as combative and angry because that is what makes people think atheists are mean. You read the Bible and are honest about what it says. You are helping a lot of people and I expect your channel to grow to be huge! Keep up the good work please! ❤️
One of the last steps in my deconversion, is completely summed up by these verses you spoke of today. I wasn’t even fully out of Christianity, when I read how we will do greater things than Jesus, and I distinctly remember muttering to myself: “what a crock of shit!” It took me by surprise. I hadn’t realized how far out of the religion I actually was, until that came out of my mouth. I guess you could say it was “inspired”.
wow thats so fascinating to hear. I love hearing the final straw and seeing how the whole house of cards comes down for people. I want to do a video on it.
@@MindShift-Brandon that would be fascinating! But yeah, the “final straw”. I could be wrong, but I would assume for many, it sneaks up on you. It’s not something we willingly give up. Anyway, great work as always, Brandon. Thanks!
Here's a better take on your analogy of the son doing chores: it's not that his dad says he'll send money and does so a few times but then stops, it's that the boy finds pennies under the couch and attributed them to his dad "sending" them, akin to someone kicking a cold and attributing it to divine healing. But when the boy needs more money to buy something, he asks his mom and rationalizes that her money *must* have been sent to her by the dad, akin to going to a doctor but attributing their skills to god's blessing or intervention. The boys doesn't even consider that his mom must have worked hard and earned her own money, i.e. skills, knowledge, profession, etc.
A general comment on prayer or promises of prayer. Several years ago, I had heart surgery. Quite a few coworkers said they'd pray for me. I accepted this as well meant and sincere well wishing. It was not a time to get into teleological debates. I was glad to have the good intent and support in a time of difficulty.
A good friend of mine passed in 2021 from a relapse of brain cancer at stage 4 after 5 to 6 years of remission. Cancer is merciless. Although the doctor told her sister who was the chief caregiver that he didn't see any cancer tumour after the second round of operation in 2021, it became obvious that her body had failed on a cellular level by then and she had problems expressing herself due to the cognitive decline. Her elder sister and her were both Christians at a Charismatic church which believes in faith healing, and when I went to a faith healing rally last week to observe the behaviour of those believers, I got so angry and disgusted at the way the guest speaker and the pastor were positioning God as the genie in the bottle, or book, to control for one's ends.
I am Zambian. My former pastor was from Nigeria. Very charismatic prosperity gospel preacher. When I started questioning my beliefs I noticed that conviniently, most of his examples of miraculous healings he had performed either happened in the church (branch) in Nigeria or to people who were not present from our church. One particular example which actually pissed me off was his claim that he had healed a 7 year old girl with sickle cell anemia - basically, he was claiming to have miraculously "CRISPRed" her DNA🙄. I found this not only deceptive but infuriating and insensitive because within the church there was an 11 year old boy who we all new had sickle cell because from time to time he would be hospitalised and we would all pray about it with no cure to testify to. The best we ever got was recovery from episodes requiring hospitalisation.
I almost drowned once swimming, my friend pulled me to shore saving me. My father attributed my life being saved to God, completely disregarding my friend’s action out of his own free will and courage to help me.
@@tomtemple69 It wouldn't be free will then if God is making it happen. Why would he not make everyone freely choose to be Christian if he wants everyone to be saved?
The man born blind for the glory of God, which Jesus healed - that has to be one of the most awful testimony. Especially in those days, being born blind was psychologically, socially and financially a terrible form of suffering. His new sighted life starts off with strife with the most important institution in his community that shamed him and his family. Speaking to his therapist.. "I never did anything wrong, my parents never did anything wrong, Jesus healed me and now no woman wants to marry me, no one wants to give me a job, I can't even go begging on the street corner... You have no idea doc... Life isn't fair 😭😭😭"
4:00 - I've taken to calling these videos, "fake apologetics". Many of them are branded as if they are for non-believers, but inevitably it turns out they are simply meant as quick fixes for doubting believers. And as you point out, being so short, they're not even that good: it's like some kind of alternative medicine that doesn't really work, but it's fast and easy so people go for it.
Agreed! Except i think it does work quite a bit sadly. These videos or things like them were just enough to keep me hanging on way longer than i should have.
You put a rat in a Skinner box. Every time, the rat hits the lever, he gets a food pellet. After this conditioning gets established in the rat's behavior, you put the rat on an extinction schedule. The worst schedule for the rat's mental health is one where the system is random. Sometimes when the rat pushes the lever, he gets a pellet, sometimes an electric shock, and most of the time nothing. According to McDowell, we are rats in God's Skinner box on this extinction schedule..
this is THE single factor that led me to my current place. But the regret and guilt for not being “smart” enough to make proper financial plans for the ultimate transition of my husband, continues to haunt me. 😒
One thing that helped me deconstruct real fast was when I discovered South Park I used to picture Jesus and the father having the Terrance and Philip voices saying “let’s heal this one hahahaha”
Brandon, I am a PK and was a Youth Pastor at a point in life. Ultra Pentecostal, etc. My siblings both have ataxia, we've been praying for more than 25 years. Nothing. I focus now on being them in the now and enjoying the years I will have with them. 2. After I got shot down in Honduras (where I'm from) , the bullet cut a nerve called the 3rd cranial pair. The damage somehow made me lose almost half my field of vision (it's called homonymous hemianopsia) . This was in 2016, all of 2017 through 2021; I was praying with "enough" Faith not to be healed from trauma and all the psychological bundle that PTSD brought along, but only, the prayer was only to restore that nerve so that my field of vision could go back to the default. Nothing (shocker, huh? Lol) Thank goodness that my resilient self keeps going and focusing on what I DO have now, hoping that some glass prisms can help me get around that vision issue I have now 😅 Thanks for your videos!!
Oh man so sorry to hear about your issues and also how much more trauma must have come from waiting on a god that was never there. Love your attitude though and hope you get it all sorted! Thanks for being here
I once seen an old woman faint in church from dehydration and the church officials called an ambulance. This alone is a red flag, that they don't even believe in pray for someone to get better. The mental gymnastics you have to do to stay in this faith is obscene
Thank you for pointing out what it said in James 5. I will spread the word. I think I will start by asking any Christian who wears glasses, why he hasn't asked Jesus to fix his eyesight. If Jesus would just do as he promised, the money spent on eyewear, eye exams, etc. could be given to the poor. If we are a Christian nation, what is with all these optometrists and stores that sell glasses? Wouldn't that money be better used to feed starving children?
Thanks Brandon! The issue of healing was the main thing that drove my wife from the church. She kept calling them on these issues and they kept responding with the same old lame excuses for why god didn’t heal. The one we heard the most in our group was “well, sometimes the answer is just NO!”
I am really digging this channel. This content feels like it is very accessible to believers deliberately to challenge their preconceptions. At 24:11 you talk about how easy it would be to believe in God if healing actually worked the way it did in the Bible. I couldn't agree more. When I reflect on my own life and eventual journey out of religion I sometimes realize how many hundreds and thousands of opportunities I gave God to reward my faith or later to assuage my doubts. My Father had a degenerative muscle disease that he was constantly getting prayed for about. Numerous times in my childhood he genuinely believed he was on the cusp of a miracle. When someone asks 'you're an atheist but what would it take to convince you god is real?'. That's it, that one act of healing for my Father would have kept me a Christian. I've been an atheist for more than a decade now. It never ceases to amaze me the lame excuses Christians conjure for the consistent failure of their God not just failing non-believers 'lost in sin' but failing them first and foremost.
I said I was depressed and after church a group of well meaning and caring people laid hands on me to cast out the “foul spirit of depression” out of me, like demons are the cause of depression! I know many Christians who are on depressants. That was 30 years ago and I still get depressed every few days…
I had that experience wth a Christian "counselor." I rebuffed her and found out my severe depression was due to five foods I was eating. Antiobiotics meant for a sinus infection cured me for good. I can now eat whatever I want.
Thank you Brandon for the important work but you were doing here. One of the things that I admire most about your videos is the passion that you display. I only found your channel yesterday and I have already watched 3 videos. I shared two of them on my Facebook page. I get so frustrated with my Christian friends when I point out the many, many things that are just downright evil and I get absolutely no response from my Christian friends.
Excellent video Brandon! I knew so many people who died believing they would be healed, and their god was silent. Yet they persisted in believing. It’s wild to me.
3:20 "Sometimes people might not get healed because they haven't expressed faith." And sometimes the faithless get healed because of good medical practices. "You have not because you ask not." And sometimes you do because your own body can heal itself of some maladies. "But is does _not_ follow that EVERY time somebody is not healed, it's because they lack faith. Why God heals some and why He doesn't heal others is God's sovereign will." This sounds like the same result as if there is no god at all. (Edit) 9:05 Thank you! At least Sean debunks the whole "God wants to have a personal relationship with you" argument. If an omniscient, omnipotent and omni-benevolent being wants to have a personal relationship with you, but _won't_ cure your illness, then what kind of relationship is that? Sean has inadvertently described the God of Apathy.
Exactly. It is absolutely indistinguishable from there being no god at all...just as the "relationship" Christians claim to have with God (the one I claimed when I was a devout Christian) is completely indistinguishable from a "relationship" with an imaginary friend.
I love your Father/Son analogy you use in this! Its so good, I believe everything can be illustrated with this one analogy. My big problem with faith healing is not only its ineffectiveness its the shaming it can lead to, similar to the boy in the analogy no matter how loyally he does his chores when he doesn`t get the money we just shame him and tell him its his fault, I think it`s quite disgusting.
@@dainagrn7030 But you have dishonored your parents, regardless of how they reacted; which is the breaking of the 5th. commandment, of the moral law of God. I also as a young man dishonored my parents, and it proved painful a few years later on. Your parents are from the Lord for your protection and good.
@@dainagrn7030Is that what happened with you? When parents break God's moral law and abuse their children physically (not speaking about spanking and discipline) or mentally, then children need the protection that can be given them to escape that environment in any way possible.
@@christophergibson7155you’re wrong. The bible says simply to honour your parents. No ifs or buts or disclaimers. Just like it tells slaves to obey their cruel masters.
When my uncle had cancer and was receiving chemo my aunt and cousins were constantly praying and every improvement was given the response, "Praise god! "Jesus is working." When he eventually died the response was "God took him home". "He is with Jesus now". No mention of previous "answers" to prayers. My thought was, "So what was the point of all these improvements that god was credited for if he ended up letting him die in the end?" It is sad that my family was giving god the credit for what the doctors and meds were doing. My uncle was also sharing christ with other patients around him so it was not a lack of faith that stopped him from being healed. Recently a family member of mine got a new job after quite a lot of disappointments and the first response was, "Thank you Jesus!" So this christian god supposedly cares more about a person getting a job than healing a person from cancer? It's just all garbage however because prayers don't do anything. A person no matter their faith can get a job with or without prayer but the cancer my uncle had had a very bad survival rate that would not be effected by prayers. The chemo just delayed things.
It is so sad that your experiences of seeing God not showing up is how you came to the conclusion... "It's just all garbage". Sure, I know people who were prayed for to be healed and died anyways. I think we all have had those realities in life. I can only share my story. I re-married after being in a backslidden state away from the Lord living with my wife for 13 years. I was called back to Jesus in 2019-2020. I prayed for my wife for months, which turned in to years. On Easter Sunday this year ('23) she repented and trusted Jesus for her salvation, right around our dining room table. She felt such a peace come over her, she told me afterward. Was it just a coincidence? Or did The Lord Jesus answer my continual prayer for her?(Of course you don't have to answer me). For myself, if the ground below me caved in, and I was swallowed up, I would still believe the Word of God and the truth that is to be known and revealed therein.
@@christophergibson7155 There are stories of people that leave Islam or Mormonism and then return to the faith after prayer from family members. These individuals also feel a peace and comfort for returning to the religion. It provides a sense of security for a lot of people. That is why people join them. The problem is that these religions are not true and a lot of their beliefs are harmful. I apply those traits to Christianity too. The main issue is that all religions claim to be true but are entirely false. You don't have to accept that but it is what it is. I would be happy to have a loving god exist but wanting something doesn't make it true.
@@BluStarGalaxy There is a defining distinction between being born again by the Spirit of God, and knowing that The Lord Jesus Christ has forgiven and cleansed you from all sin. No other "religion" has such a promise. They are ALL "works based" religions. In other words..."What MUST I do to make God accept Me. I stand with the proclamation of John the Apostle. For indeed it is surely mine also..."And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." (1John 5:20)
When I started going to church in my mid 20's I was on medication for bipolar and other things. Was told I didn't have faith and if I truly wanted to be saved I needed to stop taking them right away. I trusted the pastor. I stopped. Landed in the hospital. I did not tell him I went back on them. I hid my shame of not having enough faith and needing psychiatric medications. I've been in and out of church for 20ish years finding I didn't fit. Husband and kids not believers and I have dx's that to the churches I ended up in , showed I didn't have faith. Was made to feel worthless and unloved and that I was a disappointment to this god. I feel like it made my mental illness worse. The self torment was unbearable at times and I did try to end it all. If this god made me , then he made my mental illness, so why does that mean I lacked faith at that point. I do wish I had opened my eyes back then to how foolish this all ways but boy these pastors are so cunning. They know what to say and how to say it to keep you sucked in and made to feel horrible that you question. Why would a god who created us, our father, who loves us, why would he not heal us all? Why would he allow any of the bad to happen. It's such bs and abuse so the pastors can have a sense of power and money.
I see your points. I always saw many contradictions and choose to believe because the law of compassion gives me a sense where there is no sense. I would rather see my mom who died in March in heaven and not, that she is gone forever. On one hand, I had always kind of a feeling that I had life on easy mode, one could call that a blessing. Many times I was where I was supposed to be at the right time, to learn essentiell things. On the other hand I never had the feeling that God answered a prayer from me. I prayed for my mom to get healed from her illnesses (non lethal but very bad), I made people pray for that who are way more believing. I asked God to tell me she is now safe in heaven. But as always - nothing. While there are still all the contradictions. I can't possibly take the bible word by word. That can't work. Then some things may just be symbolic. It still doesn't work. To see God as consistent. I see a vengeful God - and actually it seems as if he even regrets the big flood and changes - the inchangable. And suddenly, the law of compassion is most important. But why didn't God gave it to the people of Israel in the first place. I have reasons to want to believe. But my sense of logic contradicts with that. I don't want the world to be something that just happened. I want justice to exist, I want something like the unconditional love Christians speak of. But I don't feel that. I don't see justice. There are people suffering from early childhood. They have been mistreated and raped and they can't believe in a God who let that happen. They might kill themselves. So they would go to hell? Did they have any other chance in the beginning? But where is the justice? Where is the love? I choose to watch your videos and confront my stoic believe with the cold facts you deliver. I don't know what to believe. I don't know where to find sense in my depression, in my Moms death, how to keep my ideals. I feel like if I leave faith, I might just go straight to Nihilism.
"Godly mental health counselling" endorsed a potentially abusive situation, and following their advice could have led to actual life-changing crimes. In my case, it gave me another (unnecessary) reason to avoid getting the professional help that actually saved my life - and the lives of my children. If you're reading this and struggling with mental health issues, don't trust god for help - and don't rely on Christian friends/family. Get the professional help - tell your doctors. Knock down doors because you're probably going to have to. There are places and people that will help you.
This was a very important video for me to watch. For me the reward was getting married. Everyone around me was getting married and I was so dedicated to God and kept on asking what’s wrong with me. Turns out that the higher power and mysterious ways was the church leadership who deemed me not husband material. I left that destructive church, found an amazing girl and honestly believed that I was being rewarded for all my hard work and dedication. You can only guess that when we broke up I lost my fucking mind
Oh man, so very sorry to head this. This is what that religion does. Makes you question and second guess constantly. Never allows you to win and ensures that you lose.
Yep, same. They make marriage look like the only thing you need and something that everyone gets. Fucks your head up immensely when you aren't good enough to get it. It's a miracle I'm not in the dirt from it already, tbh
Christians say that Jesus Christ ministry on earth is the perfect representation of God the Father and the Godhead's attitude towards mankind. Notice how in all the gospels Jesus Christ never once denies someone healing, he waffles on the boy with the doubting father, but eventually heals him. There is no precedent for God denying healing in the Gospels, not a single instance, and yet we are to believe that healing by supplication nowadays is a coin flip with the same God who freely healed everyone before.
This video hits deep. As a Christian I suffered with lower back pain for the entirety of my "faith life". The pain was awful and i would think why doesn't god heal me, surely I have the faith of a mustard seed, I am serving him, I am going to church sitting on painful chairs, tithing and sowing seeds. The bible says ask and it shall be given etc. I then came to the conclusion he just isn't there
I had lower back pain for many years. I dealt with it using painkillers and a targeted exercise regime. I came through it without ever asking God for healing, but never doubted his presence.
Great topic!! This is where the rubber meets the road! I can't contain my anger at the people who let their children suffer excruciating pain and wasting because their parents think that God will provide. Talk about evil!
Often a terminally ill person will improve just a little at points during their sickness. When they do it’s deemed a miracle! Usually they end up in huge decline again in weeks and then you will hear crickets. Just imagine if during the very worst part of the sickness, you walk in to see your loved one and since yesterday they were out of bed, talking, laughing, and were 50lbs heavier and fully dressed themselves, ready for the day. Imagine the impact if it happened just one time, just one time.
Thats really interesting. Ive been meaning to out a poll out to see what anyone who has deconverted would say their the number 1 reason was. Thanks for watching!
This one hits home dude. I have some verses that come to mind that are a big part of what lead me to deconversion. I was raised on KJV so pardon the ye's thou's and shall's 🤦🏼♂️😂 Matthew 21:22 22 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." Mark 11:24 24 "Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." John 14:13-14 13 "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son" 14 "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." Matthew 17:20 20 "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." It doesn't say "ask in my name and I MIGHT do it." All of them literally say "ask in my name and I'm GOING to do it." It says ask in my name and you WILL get it." And the last verse about the mustard seed and the mountain proves that it's not a lack of faith because it says all it takes is faith the size of a grain of mustard seed and your mountain WILL move. Its a promise that should have a 100% success rate. It should be all hits, no misses. This absolutely cannot be reconciled in my eyes. Sorry if you cover any of these verses in the video, I'm like 6 minutes in and these verses came to mind and I had them saved in my notes so once again I apologize ahead of time if I'm saying a bunch of sh*t you already said lol. I'm about to kick back and watch the rest of this now. Love your channel bro. Much love my man.
I do cover most of them, actually, ha! But its no worries. Just more proof that when one reads this stuff and takes it seriously, the flaws come out! Thanks so much for the kind support!
Okay yeah you did, my fault for thinking I was saying something original 😂 but you definitely confirmed every doubt I have regarding this topic. I experienced loss recently and I was still a Christian at that point and the guilt I felt for "not having enough faith" was insane. Deconversion actually made my grief a little easier because I let go of that guilt and it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders.
There have been poor Christians since the start of the church. Why don't we hear of thousands of stories of Christians getting a pile of gold suddenly appear for them. I think it's because there is another component in these scriptures that was understood better in its day or possibly got lost in the translation. So someone prays for a pile of gold and it doesn't appear but instead, maybe a stranger shows up out of the blue and gives you a hundred dollar gift which was just the amount you needed to pay a bill. Other scriptures show that there was more than an unlimited ask and receive principle being taught.
Brandon is was gold! Let me ask, does the Bible say "God/Jesus will/can heal you in heaven"? I hear believers say this when someone was sick and died. "Well, you know Jesus can heal her/him in heaven" I wonder if that is Biblical. I know of a woman and man who were good people, believers, man got cancer, they prayed in Jesus name for a miracle for a healing, I am sure they had others pray in Jesus name for him also. Poor guy died and wife was in a spin, "We were going to beat this" They were people of faith, and the bottom dropped out. I doubt she nor any of the faithful left the church.
Thank you so much. I think all that would be based of the “new bodies” we get in heaven that experience no pain, death, suffering, or sickness. Theres so many problems with that in general also. Either way his promise wasnt to heal them in heaven. The context was clearly on earth. Otherwise he would have told the blind man, you are healed and will now see in heaven, nope he gave him sight back in this realm. Thats my two cents. And your story is so sad and worse, so very common
Preach it bro, these false promises are dangerous and need to be exposed, children are literally dying for their parents faith, or lack thereof. Imagine Jesus shaming people for not being able to heal the sick or make mountains jump into the sea, telling them their faith is smaller than a mustard seed, after their child just died of cancer. This is EVIL.
Brandon this is phenomenal! ❤❤ My husband and I have just watched in FULL (as always) and are blown away, constantly agreeing and realising what you are saying is reality, non of this biblical world view is true!
Funny story, even the idea of religious healing can be dangerous. Back in 2019, there was reportings of a 'miracle healing' at a baptism pool in Atlanta. I was building my doubts, but I was still very active in the church, workig the projectors and setting stuff up for Sat. night service. Me and the pastor, who I was pretty good friends with, were settinng up when we noticed smoke. Turned out, last night, someone broke into the church building to try and recreate the healing. I think they were drunk or something. But they never drained the baptism pool, so a lot of it evaporated over time, and ended up condensating on some wires and caused an electrical fire when we turned the building on.
@@MindShift-Brandon yea, it was minor, and there was no damage. But its always funny to look back, as a christian and now as an atheist. Keep making great content, I especially love your Secular Bible Study. You are helping so many people.
My health started a permanent sharp decline 8 years ago at age 45. Even as a semi-believer at that time, I never prayed to be healed. My thought was, “bad things happen to good & bad people every day. I’m nobody special to be exempt from reality.” My wife continues to be a believer. I can’t count how many times people said “I’m praying & know god will heal you.” Ha ha ha. I don’t believe anymore & have been to church since Covid started. I feel like I’d be a mental basket case if I’d been expecting a miracle for 8 years. I’m looking at reality.
Happy Tuesday! Thanks for being here.
There ARE people who think god alone will heal them. They are the ones who have died.
Right!
I was having a discussion with my older brother just a few days ago he's a die hard believer on the topic of sickness disease death I said that when you die you return to the place you were before you were born and he said you didn't have a soul before you were born and sickness is caused by demons the devil it's so hard to have a reasonable Rationable Sane conversation he'd rather cling to his delusion than except reality there are certain things that I just don't care to talk about with some of the religious people in my life because they just don't get it I may as well be talking to a wall
Thank you brother! It’s always a joy to watch a new video or an older one I haven’t seen yet.
@@donaldyanson8144 you are not alone.
I was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes when I was 7 years old. My parents had the church elders come in, lay hands on me and anoint me with oil. I'm still diabetic. For years, I heard every vile thing the church says about those who are not healed. We're told to have faith like a child, but even as an indoctrinated child I didn't have enough faith? Eventually I came to the conclusion that diabetes is more powerful than god... and then that either there is no god, or that whatever god there is, it is either incapable or evil.
so sorry you went through that. That is exactly the kind of harm I am talking about!
I am so sorry you had to go through that.
That's deep,
There is a third option/conclusion: that the Abrahamic god isn't God.
I reached a similar conclusion as a child, after praying for God to end hunger and nothing happening.
I have schizophrenia. I was wandering around one day, hallucinations, delusional. I had been suffering for some time. The hallucinations and delusions were religious in nature. I believed I was an angel...Finally when I realized this was not the case ...I thought I was demon possessed. So I passed a church and it said on the sign outside, "expect a miracle." So that Sunday I went the church to get healed. I went with child like faith in god, the bible clearly stated," go to the elders and they pray over you and ask god what the matter is...they didn't do anything but made me confess my sins and etc. I went to the alter and started crying because I was not being healed and elder said I was crying tears of joy.
I could go on and on but it was a literal hell until I checked myself into the VA and got help. An anti-psychotic was prescribed and I was symptom free going on 13 years now. I am now a atheist and a social worker helping people make real progress in their lives.
Thank you for sharing!!!! Yes how many people with your condition or other similar ailments are shamed and judged instead of helped?! I am so glad you got the proper help and are now in a position to give back
Good for you! An inspirational story!
@@LOwens-xf8yo Yes! Inspirational! So impressive that you’re DOING something! I think sometimes religions discourage some people from even trying.
I had a rather serious, yet not legally diagnosable emotional and mental issues in my youth, for which my mom's Evangelical church leaders attempted an exorcism. It was frightening more than anything, lots of yelling, "holy" oil, prayer, and shaming. It contributed to years of avoidant (APD) traits I had to learn to manage, and I've been clinically diagnosed with CPTSD from years of religious "abuse" during my formative years. The worse my symptoms got, the more I was judged. Eventually CPS (social workers!) got custody of me and sent me to a facility up north where I got my GED and learned all about this stuff. They couldn't formally diagnose me because of my age. Eventually they sent me home again with a printed and signed legally binding contract with my parents that I was not to be forced into attending church. I'm still on a prescription to help with my depression and anxiety, and it also helps with the religious delusions and paranoia of being "watched." Social workers saved me. So, yeah, thank you for being there. The world needs more like you! I've been happily married to the same wonderful man for 32 years as of this coming November. I have a great life now thanks in large part to CPS.
@@Sarappreciates So so sorry you had to go through that.
My family member was in a near-fatal car accident. The airbags saved them. Most of my family were thanking God profusely, believing he saved the victim for a reason, and so on. My contribution was unwelcome: Thank the engineers who invented, manufactured, and installed the airbags! Thank the politicians who mandated them! Thank the first responders who rushed to the scene! Thank the surgeon and nurses!
Right!!
Funny how their god can create an entire universe by his own power but can't cure a single patient without the requisite assistance of a human doctor. Not even the common cold.
You’re absolutely correct.
Before meals I started saying thanks for the farmers, the engineers and the doctors. I say thanks to the scientific method! I thank constructors for the house above our heads and the police for protecting us. My Mom was very surprised 😅
Thank YOU!
@@ruirodtube I like the meme where religious family is sitting around the dinner table, heads bowed, saying "Thank you, Jesus." and then it cuts to a Mexican man, sweaty, in a dusty hot field of produce saying, "De nada (it's nothing)." 😂😂🤣🤣😅😅
I was diagnosed with epilepsy as a child. My mother took me to many faith healers. They took her money and all of them told her they had healed me. But they knew good and well that they hadn't because they always said that if I had another seizure, it was because I let the devil back in and my mother should beat me to drive the devil back out. I had more seizures, of course. So the church blamed me and called me demon-possessed, as did my family. This caused me severe depression and trauma on top of my suffering with the seizures. Faith healing is just blaming the victim because Christians dare not blame their lying god. When I realized that god isn't real and became an atheist, I was finally able to start healing from the emotional trauma that the church had caused me.
I am so veryy sorry to hear that
I hope you have a good, supportive friends that bring joy to your life☺️
@arielnecessary1615, So I'm over in the Philippines living with my 2nd wife and son. With my first wife, we have a daughter who is at this time 40 with 4 children and a husband. Well about 5 years ago my daughter stopped all contact with me, never replying to my emails and such. About 4 weeks ago she started sending DM to my wife and they started chatting. My daughter had a come to Jesus moment about a year ago and 2nd wife is Christian.
So wife says my daughter wants to talk to me on the phone and hands me the phone. " Hi dad" was the best part of the phone call that lasted about 1 minute. Did she update me about my grandchildren? No. Did she tell me how life was going with her and her family? No. Right off the bat I started getting a religious lecture on how I needed God and Jesus in my life. Everything wrong in the past and present was because God and Jesus were not in my life.
I told her that I do not need a religious lecture ( was Christian for over 40 years). What happened? My daughter screamed in the phone " YOU JUST HATE GOD!!!" and hung up, have not heard from her since. Guess she forgot about the 5th commandment about honoring your father and mother. She told my wife she found her calling, to be a theologian. Guess she forgot the Bible forbids women to preach the word. She has taken her entire family down the religious rabbit hole.
Since my daughter is part Filipino, she had a Buddha statue on display for good luck. Well her 12 year old son pointed it out as they had forgot about it. Went to his mother and father and told them they have a false idol. So the family gathered around poor Buddha, carried him to the trash and tossed him in. They then held a prayer circle praying to God and asking for forgiveness for having a statue of a false god in their house.
Religion poisons the brain and kills critical thinking skills.
Im so sorry...
Everything good that happens is because of God. Everything bad that happens is your fault. That's basically what I was taught growing up in the church.
That about sums it up
It’s your fault-OR if you’re sure it’s not, it’s part of God’s Plan™️ so you can’t be upset.
That's what the nuns taught us to a tee.
Ha! I love it! All glory to me when it goes well. And it's your fault when it doesn't. Laughable really.
And how very useful it is for those who've worked themselves into the position of speaking for their god/gods. Such a wonderful tool for keeping people under control, and (of course) giving.
My dad died of lung cancer in 2010. He had an initial successful surgery, and I (already an atheist for many years) had to listen to family friends exclaim to me “God is so good!!”.
His condition quickly deteriorated and he eventually died. Silence from the faithful. It still pisses me off when I think about it.
That experience is also what I cite when someone pulls the “no atheists in foxholes” nonsense. I wanted him to survive more than anything ever, but never once did it even occur to me to ask a deity for help. Not Thor, not Vishnu, not even gentle Jesus meek and mild.
right! that is so sad. and its either silence or the excuses like god will use this for good, or who can understand god.
I'll never understand how people can resist from punching those assholes in the face when they tell you that your parent dying is a good thing
I really admire the self control
meek and mild as the soft sell of the bibliolatry, bipolar when read in full honesty and often directly negated by Paul's venerated words.
the thing is in times of need, well in times of DIRE need, folks will accept help from pretty much anywhere, if i actually thought i was going to hell and i actually thought i would be burned alive forever, i'd sign up right away - i'm not stupid. asking god for help doesn't mean you believe there is one there, is desperately asking for help from whoever is listening, i regularly thank the universe when things go well - just in case. doesn't mean i believe the universe is actually "watching over me"
in fact the reason we have religion is because being superstitious is an evolutionary beneficial trait, thinking things are "out to get you" keeps you alive longer than "i'll perform an experiment to see if this IS a tiger" and you get eaten. sadly we're predisposed to being superstitious (not religious tho').
Sorry for your father's death and I can understand all the pitiful sayings and platitudes you heard were grating. I think these people mean well, want to comfort you and fear if they take away the myth they will have nothing and nothing frightens the bejezus out of them. Brandon has said and this is true, believers have a core and atheists don't. That core is salvation. It is also fear of there being nothing, not seeing dad, mom, uncle Joe again. In heaven. Not seeing a person restored, the limb restored, the disfiguring surgery gone of not having sorrow turn to happiness in heaven.
My appendix ruptured back in 2015. My mom waited until 24 hours later from my first symptoms because my parents thought I was being dramatic, until I was sick all night and was no longer able to roll over easily the next morning. Mom also "didnt know what to do to drive me into the ER" until she called the doctor's office and they said "go into the ER". After surgery, my mom said "God saved me" and that pissed me off. The surgeon and medical staff saved my life, modern medicine saved me as my abdominal cavity had been filled with the bacteria from my appendix rupturing and it had been flushed with antibiotics. God didn’t do shit. I laid in bed for 24 hours and only got worse, only praying and waiting would have resulted in me dying.
They say God command the surgeon! Lol
When someone gets better: "God's plan in action! Hallelujah!"
When someone dies of cancer: "God's plan in action! Hallelujah!"
They literally can't lose.
Had a debate with a Christian who said prayer works, so I brought up the tornado that tore through Oklahoma in 2013. It went like this:
Christian: " Prayer works."
Me: " What about the children that drowned in a schools basement hiding from a tornado in 2013? You know they were praying for God to save them."
Christian: " God did answer their prayers."
Me: " How so? They were praying for God to save them and they still drown."
Christian: " God answered their prayers by showing them mercy."
Me: " Showing them mercy by drowning them in a schools basement? Instead of diverting the tornado or stopping the tornado? They were praying to live, not drown."
Cue the " you hate God" type replies before door slams shut.
Eye opening way to put it. Nice. So healthy is good and being in heaven is good and not healing but living is good because...
Really asking as a born atheist. I know there is a party line for why babies get super sick? Trying to remember/ put this together, how they think?
Sins of their relatives? Fault of their community? Good because it teaches? Teaches what?
God's plan is better than my plan.
No one knows God's plan. God works in mysterious way.
@percubit10 , with all due respect, honestly seeking to understand... everything, every result is positive out come no matter what? Because a book says so? Because religious leaders say so? There is always hope even if people die slowly and rot in their own skin? Because a deity wants it that way?
I am so utterly confused? Does your god really kill babies in their sleep because it is part of a giant plan and those children might grow up and ruin the big plan? That is so terrifying for me to believe?!? Why not just not make the babies? If your deity is so smart, so strong how can healthy babies even be created if they might grow up and change the plans of the one you believe makes and knows everything? Why must he stop babies by causing their illnesses and slow deaths instead of just keeping their little souls safe and unharmed in the first place?
Hearing that we cannot understand but must just accept is not leading me toward loving the idea of your version of what a god is.
Being told to shut up, stop thinking and accept any and everything because... leads me to not believe. 10,000 preachers and more have said the exact same thing you just said and it never makes sense.
Biggest question I have about your comment... why did god give us brains if we are not supposed to think? To ask? To wonder?
Big hug. What you said makes me disbelieve more firmly.
yeah.... God determines whatsoever comes to pass...
Thanks to the new blood test, my dad was diagnosed with early stage of prostate cancer and with the advancement of medicine, we all knew it was a curable cancer. My siblings, born again christian aka evangelical, ask me to join them at their life centre aka church for prayers so my dad can heal in the name of Jesus, I declined the invitation. After about 10 sessions of radiation, my dad was cancer free. Of course they said their prayers worked, it was a miracle and we should all get together to thank the Lord. Sigh!!!
Few months after my dad went into remission, my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer. I heard nothing from my siblings about praying for her!? Is it because they knew it was an incurable disease and no amount of prayers will heal her?
Because she's a woman, and ancient hebrews hated them.
When my nephew was paralyzed in an auto accident about 10 years ago, my sister and brother laid hands on him and "claimed healing in Jesus's name" . When he remained paralyzed they decided that God must have a purpose for the affliction so that's why he wasn't healed. They never have to doubt that way.
How sick! I am so fed up with this intolerable religion
Sounds like they either make excuses or don't know crap for crap
cynthia etc: This is terribly sad. But it is also a telling illustration of the power of "God" belief. These desperate people are prepared to believe and/or tell themselves anything in order to alleviate their unimaginable distress. They did not ask themselves why their "God" had allowed this to happen in the first place.
This gives such an insight into the mind of the religious.
Of course, if asked, I dare say they would explain that they do not know why "God" allowed the accident and would not heal the injured boy. They cannot fathom "God's" ways. Except when they KNOW "God" doesn't like gay people and abortion and "sin" and honest atheism ... Then, suddenly, they have direct access to what "God" thinks.
Sounds like cognitive dissonance.....
To day we at war , God likes drama ?
Honestly, this is the only channel that I hang on to every word. The main thing that started my deconversion was the many times I’d hear people thanking god for something that involved a tragedy. An example I always use is a true one. A family had their 8 y/o daughter kidnapped, rap*d & murdered. After a year of the police, FBI, science & attorneys working in unison, the killer was found, convicted & sentenced to life w/out parole. The mother, in a press conference said, “We thank god he was found. God is good!” HER DAUGHTER HAD BEEN RAP*D & MURDERED!!! The desire to credit god in this case and so many like it is disgusting!
thank you for that kindness and oh man, that story jsut makes me sick to my stomach.
yeah He does a very good job.
It's just a natural form of expression out of bewilderment or belief. No God exists at that point. Only energy. And who knows to which God because you could be calling be anything and air. There are specifics to the cult of "God" who technically is the Hebrew God who was the apostolic God of the new Christian Jewish religion who believed in a Messiah. Vs. What is now believed in a diluted derivative or of an outdated grimoire. That is how things work yet Christianity cannot put both together. And prayer or whatever if it be a mantra or something else is a thought form. Nothing else. God is outside that law of being. He basically operates on some energy constructs or takes energy from believers to manifest their desires. No such thing as a free energy exchange with this Abrahamic God of the bible.
@@dannylo5875 🔥 this is truth 😂. I had to just say that.
@@Wealthismybirthright So did I say anything that did not make sense or was just nonsensical!?
As soon as God heals an amputation, I'll believe.
To all health care workers THANK YOU for all your work especially during the recent pandemic.
Seconded.
Thirded! 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
They are definitely among the people who don't get enough respect and gratitude!
@@njhoepner I worked in the medical "profession" for 40 years and am a poster child for one who listened to them for 60 years and have CHRONIC health issues. Those of us who work on the units in the hospitals and nursing homes do not usually get enough respect or gratitude. But I REGRET ever going into that field. Big pharma runs the industry and the doctors. I know I sound like a Right Wing conspiracy theorist, but I KNOW what I am talking about. This "trust the science" bull crap that we've been told for 3 years is just as bad as "just trust the BIBLE!"
@@dawnalawrence6584 My own take is that we as a society have chosen to rely primarily on the 'free market' for health care...which means we've chosen, whether we realize it or not, to have a health care system whose top priority is profit. Health outcomes are secondary (at best), and the welfare of those working in the system is even below that. Normal to any business run for profit.
I believe capitalism and the free market are wonderful for many things, but not for everything.
The gymnastics they engage in to dodge this problem would win a gold medal.
Ha, indeed!
Back in middle school, I had a classmate that lost a long battle with cancer. She came from a religious family, born and raised Christian much like I had been, but we belonged to different sects. We sat next to each other in the one class we had together and were good friends. She would sometimes be absent for like a week or so, being treated by doctors. I still remember the teacher walking in to tell us. As I was processing my own pain and hurt from this, I sometimes thought about her family. I don't think I could even possibly begin to understand the depths of their grief. But I usually always found myself thinking "Why do these parents have to bury their child? Why did my friend die so young?" I wasn't able to accept any excuse that would allow for it, if her purpose from birth was to suffer from an incurable illness and die young, if that was willed by some divine all powerful all knowing entity, then I do not think that entity is "good".
I'm sorry for your loss
Earlier today a friend told me a very sad story about her 21-year-old son having become a drug addict a few months ago and all the struggles (including financial ones) that she's been going through because of that. Knowing how religious she is, I asked her what her church pastor had to say about it all and how he could help. Her answer to me was: "He just told me to keep praying and having faith so God would heal my son." After hearing that, I told her that praying would not solve the problem and that her son would only get out of the addiction through medical treatment.
I am in the beginning / questioning phase of all of this. I have binged all of your videos from the beginning over the last 10 days and am finally caught up 😅 - Thank you for doing these by the way!
I have been in the non denominational /Pentecostal / fundamental vein since the early 80’s.
After ‘battling for my husbands miraculous healing’ for 7 years, we lost.
At the end it got very bad. He was in ICU - literally dying in real life - but we (myself, my husband, the entire extended fam, and our church body) simply refused to accept reality from EVERY SINGLE medical staff…and there were lots. Daily, each and every specialist, nurse, and med team told us that he was not going to make it….and every single day I would tell them that even though it looked so very dark, that our god was a healer and a miracle worker, you’ll see!
In the last days he was alive I would have periods of fear and doubt (which I felt so guilty about) and during one of those frustrated fearful times said to our pastor ‘I don’t get it!!! It’s seeming to me that either god can’t, or he won’t. And neither of those are ok with me.’
I got a ‘loving rebuke’.
But turns out, it’s looking like I was right. That was 11 years ago. I’m just now digging in to educate myself. Again, thank you for the content you are making. I’ve never been exposed to anything like it.
I am so glad, you decided to share. I can only imagine how hard that season was with your husbands passing. I know very well though, just how hard this season of questioning is and just wanted to let you know I'm here for it. Reach out along the way with any questions or hurdles you are facing. I have seen it clearly enough that once people really are open to looking at this stuff, its just a matter of time. Wishing you well on your current journey and thanks for being here and your kind support!
@@MindShift-Brandon thank you 💗
Life is a long journey for anyone, I’m just glad your able to see both sides of the coin, even if you don’t end up thinking like one of us🫡
You’re not alone! I was a practicing Christian for 15 years before I started to realize it just didn’t make any sense to me.
Sorry about losing your husband😣 time can heal some wounds but not all. Hope you’re doing daily things to make yourself happy
It's been many years, but I lost my mom to a lengthy illness and the whole church, and me and my father, and all us kids "had faith" and refused to let anyone mention that this looked serious and she might not make it. We Weren't Allowed to think anything other than that it was god's will to heal her, and he was about to do it. She died. Several years later, I deconverted after a long study of reality. The thing that haunts me about my mother's death is this: It would have been a comfort TO HER (!!!) and to us to discuss frankly and lovingly with us her wishes, and it would have helped her if we could only had loved her through a long goodbye. We could have reminisced together about her life....laughed about some things, remembered fondly even the tears. She could have been assured that she didn't have to be brave, or pretend that she was going to be healed any minute. Why? Because a single word of doubt would have caused the whole faith thing to crash and she surely would have died, and there would be fault to go all around
Instead, we all had to keep a stiff upper lip, and pretend to the very end. She deserved better. I regret to this day that she essentially died alone with any dark thoughts that she might have had. She had to use her energy to reassure US, when she was the one who was dying and needed honesty warmth from us, not the cold wall of faith which is what we gave her.
"Rely on god" someone told me once. My response was that my cocker spaniel on her worst day was more reliable than god has ever been on his best day.
Thoughts and prayers. I posted this on another video. Sprained my foot bad and was in a boot. For a month, I was told. Went to get my hair done when a nice young man also in the waiting area asked if he could pray for healing over my foot. I said sure, no harm, no foul. He did so, earnestly and sincerely. He asked afterwards if my foot felt better. I said no. He said it might take until the next morning. Turns out he was some sort of faith healer, because he had miraculously healed family members overnight and was now roaming the SW with a preacher doing such things. I said, OK. Needless to say, it was not better that day or the next morning. In fact, it healed along the same schedule as the doctor said it would take. About a month.
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 4 and the expenses were so high we literally were left with 1 dollar in our bank account several times. I remember saying, “the Lord gave us just what we needed…blah blah blah”.
Not once being upset with him for not healing her. Even after the countless hours my wife and I prayed for her healing.
I got rid of everything that I thought was upsetting the lord , regular movies, Disney movies and all kinds of carved images. Prayed prayed and prayed. Still no healing.
I just knew god was going to heal her. Instead… she’d have seizures and the medical bills just kept pulling up!
It’s 25 years later and I’m so ashamed for all the time and comments I made to my wife and kids about how god was going to heal her and we just have to have faith.
I COULD NOT OF HAVE ANY MORE FAITH THAN I DID!
This “god” is cruel!
You're completely right about the "Christian shaming". I've been living in never ending pain for the last 3 years and my doctors don't know what's going on, all while serving in the church. In May, I decided to leave to give myself a chance to question why I believe what I claim to believe and all my questions were never satisfied. This week, my ex-pastor called me for a 'meeting' where they essentially suggested that my illness is my fault because I took the vaccine (mind you I was sick even before the vaccine) and then I'm no longer at church. They don't care about my well being just fulfilling their agenda so they can tell God that tried to tell me the truth. Offended is an understatement. I'm 23 and had to drop out of a fully funded Masters degree which I was passionate about, I'm unable to work and live in the constant pain I've been asking God to heal for 3 years. Why would I choose that if God really wanted to heal me? Am I insane?
What you said at the end resonated with me. You are right. It is dangerous. I have Crohn's and was raised fundamental evangelical. To reach out and beg and beg and sob and ask for God to take this away from me just for him to tell me no was devastating. And then, to turn around and be met with my peers not only dismissing it as a matter of faith but meeting me with SCORN because I "didn't believe enough" was worse.
I was left utterly alone by everyone I had ever met. Nobody supported me with words or prayer. Nobody offered to drive me to or pick me up from procedures or infusion appointments. Nobody cheered for me when I found a medication that worked. They told me I must like being sick, because if I truly wanted to be healed and asked God in genuine faith, it would be gone already.
Everyone abandoned me and they cited this verse as they did it. This religion is traumatizing
Healing was probably the second biggest reason for my deconversion. For me it started when I attended an “exit ministry” Bible study (early 80s, just as the AIDS epidemic was beginning) sponsored by an independent Pentecostal congregation. It eventually became clear that the reality they said I should be experiencing didn’t match up with the one I had… the gay didn’t get prayed away. My thought then was if they got that wrong, what else could they be wrong about - and I had no further to look than my own family. Mom was born with congenitally deformed hips, Dad was probably on the autism spectrum. My sister was born with an organic personality disorder, mental health issues, cognitive limitations and a seizure disorder which made her life an absolute torment for her - and living with her traumatic.
The answer Jesus gave to the question, “why was this man born blind,” “that God might be glorified” suddenly looked like the ultimate in capricious malice. One person is mutilated so it can be proved that God can undo it. For just that one, while millions of others bear unmitigated suffering. It was about then that I realized that “why” is a useless question - especially since any answer I received from Christians was either a reiteration of the same divine neglect, blame (you didn’t have enough faith, you had some unconfessed sin, your grandmother and mother didn’t pray correctly claiming the right scriptures when they were pregnant), or a trivialization of the reality I was living through… and gave me absolutely no help in trying to navigate the emotional hurricane that was my family.
[EDIT - forgot to add:] God mutilated my family to teach me a lesson? Everything happens for a reason? That God is a monster. The way I ended up reframing that for myself was to say that no, there are no reasons. However, if one could say there is a gift given to humankind, it is that our capacity to learn gives us the ability sometimes to transform the horrific into lessons to inform us moving forward. For me, “why” continues to be a useless question; it seems more practical most of the time to ask “how.” “How” is where coping has the possibility of emerging.
Thank you for sharing. The ultimate in capricious malice should be gods nickname. I am so glad you came to understand the truth.
I had a friend who died on his 18th birthday from a rare disease. Thankfully his parents took him to the hospital and the doctors did everything they could and hundreds of people were praying for him (including me). And after all of that he still died a painful death in a hospital bed on his 18th birthday. That caused a lot of doubts in my faith, and I am glad that I am were I am now, but I miss that kid.
so sorry to hear that, man!
@@MindShift-Brandon Thanks
He must have been a great person. It’s so good that you had him in your life, however briefly. I am sorry that he died.
@@pechaa Thank you
I'm sorry for your loss
16 years ago I had a close friend in the ministry he had chest pains. His pastor anointed him with oil and told him he would be ok. The next day I saw him at work he fell down and died right in front of me and others of a massive heart attack. We tried to revive him but he was gone. He was 30 years old
Man. Thats such a shame. This religion literally kills people.
He left behind a wife and 3 kids
God works in mysterious ways. Some days those prayer lines can get a little jammed up. Could be God got the name wrong , cured some sinner by mistake. Nothing gets a Christian riled up like some unrepentant sinner getting cured while that sweet old lady is in a wheel chair and has the oxygen bottle. Any descent sized hospital has a little prayer room though it might have a different name. At least you don't get charged $800. For using it. I am sure the hospital is working on it. Well it's harmless you might think except for the damage it does to the mind of the person praying for a family member that gets the idea that God did not answer my prayer because I am no good or the person prayed for is no good. What a burden to put on someone and it happens thousands of times a day. I couldn't save my son.
I'm so sorry
This particular topic was the start of deconstruction for me. I cried out and cried out. I didn’t see any reason why a good god would let horrible things happen while I was genuinely seeking him.
Unfortunately, i think this is probably true for so many of us. Thanks for sharing!
It drives me crazy when Christians say that God "never fails," or that he "always keeps his promises." Yet if you point out a clear example of God failing or not doing what he says he would do, they just give excuses. There is absolutely no condition under which God could ever possibly fail in their eyes. If a child with cancer gets better, God gets credit for healing them. If that child dies from cancer, praise God, because that child is in Heaven now, where there is no pain or suffering. There is literally no conceivable situation where God can fail. He can sit up there on his throne, doing absolutely nothing, and he gets credit for it. No matter what bad thing happens, "his ways are higher than our ways."
Right! It’s exhausting!
The chores analogy would be more accurate if the kid has never met his dad and his neighbor brought over a note saying “your dad wrote that you should do my chores and if you have a good attitude he’ll pay you when he gets back”
And it’s written on the neighbor’s stationery.
Ha. For sure!
The note is also written in your neighbor’s handwriting, and when this is pointed out your neighbor says that your father dictated it to him. 😆
I’m sure we could go on and on… 😂
@@TestMeatDollSteak There are three other notes ... with some differences ;-)
@@sanjeevgig8918 in handwriting, writing style, language, etc lol
It baffles me whenever Christians make excuses or answers for God. That was actually a big thing for me when I was deconverting. Why am I defending an all-powerful God? It just doesn't add up. Haven't seen the full thing yet but great video! (So far)
Appreciate that, and yes, so well and simply said. Why am I having to defend an all powerful god?
Epicurus addressed this very thing 2,500 years ago when he asked:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
The Abrahamic religions have no good response to this entirely reasonable line of questioning. As you so concisely said: "It just doesn't add up."
In a perfect world, that would be irrefutable and we'd be pretty much done and dusted with the impossible notion of an omnisciently powerful God pulling the strings of existence in one form or another for some ultimately good purpose. But no... sadly, that's not the case at all. The confabulation of utter nonsense that is religion still persists. Why? Most probably, because many people are desperate to believe in some "higher" level of existence and have been told by respected figures in society to believe in a supernatural realm ruled over by an all-powerful God that will uplift them from the often tedious, frequently miserable grind of daily life and magically grant them a brand new life that will be everlasting in the hereafter, a nebulous place (perhaps with golden streets and mansions for all!) wherein they can carelessly drift about Heaven forevermore in a state of eternal bliss.
Oh, added bonus to the above-noted afterlife is the promised entertainment of seeing everyone you hate, disagree with, or that has ever harmed you in any way by way of insult, injury or doing/being anything you may have found objectionable or offensive, will be burning for all eternity in a lake of fire or subjected to a vast array of painful and humiliating torments. So that's a fun time for those who've been "chosen" by the Almighty to sing his praises in perpetuity. Oops, forgot to mention that there will be a lot of choir work involved in this gig. It just never stops, according to some people, based on "good authority."
@@martin2289 the only defence they can come up with is attacking the word "evil". How do you know if something is "evil" or "wrong"? You cannot, only god can, so try as hard as you might think of any horrendous crime, maybe it was actually well meant from god.
@@kamnale1317 Yeah, that's such a bullshit argument. Every kid knows that burning ants with a magnifying glass is "evil" even if they can't really explain why.
I saw a license plate yesterday that said “prayer changes things”. It was a handicapped license plate . Irony impaired.
Lol! Oh goodness
I’m glad that my parents always trusted doctors over prayers to help me and my sister treat medical issues we had growing up. I still contact doctors when needed and they have always come through for me due to their expertise due to studying the science of healing and comfort. Thanks for your presentation. Yes there will come a time in my life when doctors will not be able to fix me but praying will not heal me either.
amen, ha!
Great video as always! When I was younger I had cancer and I prayed fervently that God would get rid of it. I even had the church Elders anoint me with "healing oil." Nothing helped. I had to go through chemo to get cured. Thankfully I am fine now and have been cancer-free for 20 years. I thank the medical establishment for healing me, not God!
Oh man! Doesn’t het much more clear than that. So glad you are well!
I stopped taking ADHD medication through the nudging of a prophet of God (who later was found to be having an affair with his secretary). It kind of ruined my 20s. I went from Dean's list to dropping out of college and falling into debilitating depression and agoraphobia. Luckily I got my BA in my 30s and I'm slowly building back my life. I take responsibility for being naive enough to think it was God's will, but that proposition shouldn't have been before me to begin with.
Bingo! This very issue is what led me to questioning the Bible and to losing my faith. Unfortunately, I was so fundie that I went off needed medication for almost a decade trusting God to heal me. Even worse, when I had doubts and went to those I looked up to, they told me I was making an idol out of medicine, that I just needed to deal with curses and sin in my life, etc.
I have such a better quality of life now and I can't believe how long I suffered for hoping Jesus would heal me. This is where religion becomes really dangerous and I do think these failed promises are one of the fatal flaws of Christianity.
Great video. Subscribed.
My father had brain cancer. The doctor estimated his life expectancy to be 12 months. He was faithful and was blessed by church elders. He died at 13 months from diagnosis. My wife had colon cancer and was extremely faithful. She had 4 surgeries with the cancer returning each time. Each time she received blessings and prayers and every time she absolutely believed that the current cancer would be the last. The fifth time was the last as it was terminal. It seems people prayed over recuperate at no rate better than the average recuperation rate for that problem. God is limited by statistics more than lack of faith or maybe simply isn't there. And despite her continual faith she suffered horribly for 14 years in pain and nausea.
Thanks for being here and welcome to the family! I am just so very sorry to hear about your losses. I have not yet had to deal to that extent of grieving in my life yet, but i dont take it lightly. Appreciate you sharing here.
@@MindShift-Brandon I appreciate your words here and you videos. I think it is immensly important that we move away from mythos (storytelling) to logos (understanding through measurement and observation). The reluctance to loose at least the simplistic religious beliefs hold everyone back. There may be room for some sort of meditation, thankful attitude and interspection but religion seems to be a simple counterfeit of that. Take care my friend and the best of luck to you and your channel.
Sean: is the lack of healing the result of a lack of faith?
No Sean, it's the result of a lack of a god.
Yup!
Best comment
How so? Why does that follow?
I'm struggling greatly.
I feel like I'm caught between two hells.
I'm suffering from a cervical spine disease. I have been in intractable pain and bedridden for 4.5 years. Thing of it is, I don't have much faith in the competency of medical Drs either, do to being injured by them. At this point, my trust in God and in doctors is very low.
So what hope do I have then? I'm in utter despair. 😭
Your analogy with the random rewards for doing chores reminded me of B.F. Skinner's experiment, that if I remember correctly demonstrated that conditioning pigeons works even more efficiently when the positive reinforcement had an element of randomness as opposed to being systematic.
This is more or less what many video game developers use to improve the addictiveness of a game through random loots, but I never thought that it could also be a factor of belief reinforcement because prayers work surprisingly close to complete randomness.
oh what an interesting comparison! thanks for this.
When pigeons learned that pressing the lever always dispensed food, they would only press it when hungry and ignore it otherwise. If the lever only sometimes gave food, the pigeons would spend all their time pressing it because they couldn’t be sure it would work when they actually needed it.
@@alisaurus4224ah.. boy does this ever explain inconsistency in raises.
It took me 5 years of going up for almost every youth healing call for me to figure this out. I even believed I had been healded multiple times. It put my in such a toxic relationship with the church.
right, many times we are told we are healed, and if it comes back, its because of our sin, similar to the verse i mentioned where Jesus says as much. Toxic is right!
@@MindShift-Brandonthere is nothing toxic in our faith, the toxic is in your atheism that makes you be obsessed with us and our faith. That Is toxic, pathetic godless alone person. No respect for you and the nothingness you always bring to us and too the people who kiss digestively your ass.
Seeing this topic laid out so simply makes me think I was crazy for not losing my faith a lot faster. I'm one of those people who is probably in the autoimmune issues/fibromyalgia/CFS camps (undiagnosed because doctors have been even less useful to me than prayer) and I seriously let other Christians make me think that my illness was my fault for way too long. I repented again and again for anything and everything I might have done when I had already repented, dealt with "issues of forgiveness" when I had already forgiven, and finally accepted that maybe God had a purpose for my illness when one slightly kinder Christian suggested that instead of directly blaming me.
I was also constantly told I didn't have enough faith, but I DID. I KNEW in my heart and soul that my Father was going to heal me. I was so sure I even tricked myself into thinking I was healed a few times. I also bounced back and forth between the mixed messages that said I either needed to do nothing to try to heal my body and rely on my faith in God alone, or that I needed to do everything I could to heal my body because God only helps those who help themselves. It took WAY too many years for me to wake up and realize it was all bs. About 15.
Same!! How i ever stayed so long is absolutely unbelievable to me now. So many thousands of excuses!
My heart hurts when I read what you've been through. 😢
I once was a born again Christian, Having suffered for much longer than Job ever did! For the past 16 years with M.E./CFS with no end in sight( debilitating flu like fatigue, all sorts of debilitating pain,forced to be lying down 80% of the time) (Lost friends, No Job or purpose,No money, No children, No hobbies, No exercise, the list goes on)this gives you perspective that only those who have suffered can have. I only recently stopped getting on my knees every night beging god for Healing and for
Spiritual help and reassurance that he is with me. I didn't get either prayer answered.
I am so sorry for your suffering. It sounds awful. It is hard when the belief in prayer gives you hope and then you realize there is no one listening. It is a sad loss that’s so many go through. I really hope you find a way to get better and feel better.
Faith in god is like a security blanket. When the healing doesn’t occur, the security is shaken.
It should be! But most make excuses for why they didnt love and obey the blanket enough.
faith in God doesn't depend on healing...
When we have a medical system with records for hundreds of millions of people, it should be easy to see which group out of which religion has widespread miraculous healing. That we can’t see any difference says everything.
yes, data is a beautiful thing. In fact on the studies done for prayer, they actually found that the group prayed did slightly worse in recovery. The thinking was that the stress of knowing people had prayed and were expecting a certain outcome slowed down their healing.
God can only act in the shadows for people that allow him into their lives which will result in suffering. Are we sure he's different than Satan?
Google "the healing power of pets". Having a pet has shown a more demonstrable effect on healing and longevity than prayer.
The percentage of times that a Christian survives an illness without medical intervention is equal to the percentage of times a non-Christian survives an illness without medical intervention. In other words, praying and not praying are equally effective.
@@goldenalt3166 Ha! Satan isn't real either.
This is literally what started my deconversion. I called on God’s promises in the hardest time of my life and he didn’t answer those promises.
At some point if no one answers, you are forced to assume no one is there
If you replace “pray for something “ with the words “hope for something “, then the con trick becomes more obvious.
In reality, if you hope something happens, it either happens or it doesn’t. Simple.
If you pray for something to happen it either does or it doesn’t, but the religious con you by saying “god has reasons why “
They’ve played us as gullible fools for centuries
Love that! Thanks for sharing.
"it either happens or it doesn’t. Simple."
Yes! I feel like there's also a vast lack of awarenes in simple statistical maths.
People will say, "oh, there was only 10% chance to survive that type of cancer! It must be a miracle!". But often nobody points out that, just in your town, you're only one in a hundred who have survived, and on earth, one in millions. And that all these other 90% have actually died. All of them. We should count the "anti-miracles" then.
Simple and irrefutable explanation, but you would be amazed how many people fail to understand it. Or worse, they do understand it but prefer to disregard it.
I'm one of them, as it turns out. Thanks for this. I needed this. And let me tell you that it is more comforting to not believe than believe that it's gawd's will for her to suffer, OR is a cost of Eve's sin as I watch her come undone in front of me. To the first group, pound sand, and to the second, get away from me, "SATAN."
thanks for being here. Do you mean you were a Christian who deconverted because of this kind of issue?
@@MindShift-Brandonsorry, I edited ahead of your response. It was a big part, certainly. Sorta the straw that broke my back😮
@@ToddJSpencer Well, thankfully, you're out. I hope that your back was only figuratively broken and you didn't have to suffer too much first.
i was really sad when i knew someone with a progressively sick daughter, she was blind, disabled, unable to talk anymore or even eat but her mother believed God would heal her on earth and one day she would walk and see again, on earth, in the physical form, sadly the girl died and the mother just accepted that she was healed now, in heaven.
So sad
A friend of mine had a close family member be diagnosed with terminal cancer, and was told that with chemo she could extend her life by several years, but only if she started right then; she could not afford to wait. This woman had several children and a husband who was an "old-school" type disciplinarian. My friend really did not want these kids to end up with only him as a parent. But the problem was, the mother was certain that God would heal her and refused all treatments. She said that she had been given assurance by God that he would not let her die. Even as the months passed and she got worse, she kept saying that she wasn't going to die. When told that the odds of her living out the year when her cancer had progressed that far were almost unheard of, she said, "well, I guess I'll be the one to beat the odds." She wasn't. She finally, near the end of her life, agreed to go on treatments, but by that time it was far too late and they didn't even extend her life by a fraction of a year, and now she is gone.
My friend has, at my encouraging, vented her grief and anguish to me about her family member's refusal to let medicine help her, and how angry she was that the mother kept insisting that she had faith and that was enough. But for some reason, it wasn't enough to really show my friend the folly of religion; the mother SHOULD HAVE been the correct one, if the Bible were true. But it's not, and she wasn't. And now her kids have no mother.
a very perfect, but very sad example of what I'm talking about here. Thanks for sharing.
This spoke to me SO MUCH!! For as long as I remember I’ve dealt with this chronic stomach issue that no doctor has been able to figure out. I remembering CRYING and begging god to heal me. I was even reciting and posting healing scriptures everywhere. All to still have symptoms to this day. Meanwhile, some lady on TBN who’s been in a wheel chair for all her life suddenly just gets “healed”. I just used to think do I have to have some extreme life altering thing happen to me before I can receive healing?!
So sorry to hear about your ailment. The only thing that makes one suffer more is the false hope of healing or the confusion and blame when healing doesnt occur
@@MindShift-Brandon Exactly! So after years of disappointment I had to come to the conclusion that this just isn’t as real as people try to make it.
Helloooo ! I am 16 years old and I am deconstructing from my christian faith.
I was endoctrinated by the evangelical church for 1 year. I am still afraid of the after life. It's complicated.
I really like your videos. It helps me to put things into perspective.
(BTW I don't know if you'll interpret badly this but, you're cute you look like a doll❤☺️☺️. I might be direct because english isn't my native language :((
Appreciate your channel. You've helped me immensely in transitioning to atheism. The failure of prayer was the first step when I nursed my wife while she died and realised only me, the doctor and the nurses cared about my wife. God was, and always had been, silent and absent. I was a Pentecostal with all that entails. I've often thought about the emotional and psychological damage verses promising healing have caused. The gospel writers were frauds. When you pray for healing and fail, you are to blame. I'm still trying to deprogram myself years after rejecting biblical healing and prayer. It becomes a reflex action. Keep rocking Brandon. You're doing a great deal of good.
So sorry to hear of your loss. I cannot imagine. Thank you for the sharing and for the kind words.
Thank you .
Having chronic illness all my life and chronic pain for over half of it, I literally can't count the amount of times I've been told my body torturing itself is god's plan, to go read the book of Job (again), to always pray, and to not blame faith. I didn't leave religion because of it -- intellectual honesty did that long ago -- but I sure as hell became an anti-theist due to it. The mindset is so toxic and ignores everyone who's only suffered until a tragic, unethical death. It's arrogant and cruel.
My dad suffered many chronic illnesses and pain, and eventually got cancer. People would tell him that he just didn't have enough faith and other things like that. It pissed me off when he told us people were telling him that, and he took it to heart, too. He thought he was a monster. That it was his fault he didn't get better. When he had cancer, I as well as basically everyone who knew him prayed for healing. But along the way, I realized... wait a minute... if we are praying for god's will, then our prayers mean nothing. Whatever happens is god's will, right? So I stopped praying. He died. I was technically still a Christian, but questioning at that point.
The Sunday after he died, the pastor's wife prayed that my dad would be raised from the dead. She really seemed to believe that was possible. Though me and my family didn't want him to come back. Not if it meant continuing to live in the body that gave him so much pain and suffering when he was alive.
Well, about a month later, the pastor's wife suddenly died from I believe it was uterine cancer that led to a blood clot that got to her brain. We later found out SHE KNEW she had cancer, but that she didn't want "the hands of man" to heal her and didn't tell many people and instead just prayed for healing.
I've witness first-hand what relying on prayer and not modern medicine can do. And while my dad did die as well, we at least gave him a fighting chance because he did everything the doctors told him to do. We just didn't catch it in time.
It wasn't all that which led me to atheism. But it certainly led to a lot of questions from me about prayer, healing, and all that. And now I am an atheist. And surprise, surprise, people get healed at the same rate as when I used to pray for them.
Thanks for sharing these examples. It is so sad that so many of is go through these things and what is ultimately the worst part is that its all unnecessary!
Pure genius. Simple, clear. Calling it like it is.
Appreciate that!
Praying only works for the one praying and using "faith" is the worst thing anybody can do. I can remember my dad (the preacher) having all of the church pray for a little girl that was bound to a wheelchair to get up and start walking. Well, it didn't happen. And when it didn't happen, he said it was because of someone in the church didn't have enough "faith" I hate it when "they" use excuses for their god. Thanks brother!
man i hate that excuse. I saw it myself so many sundays. Theres a demon in this room, one of you is worshipping satan, one of you doesnt beleive. How weak is god...
Wow! You are a friggin' sledge hammer of truth! I know there were people watching this looking to argue with you, but we're left sitting in stunned silence. ❤️
Ha! Favorite comment of the day. Thank you! Maybe thats why i cant get anyone to have a conversation/debate with me. Just kidding.
@@MindShift-Brandon honestly, the way you lay everything out is clear and powerful! I love that you don't come across as combative and angry because that is what makes people think atheists are mean. You read the Bible and are honest about what it says. You are helping a lot of people and I expect your channel to grow to be huge! Keep up the good work please! ❤️
Seek first the kingdom of God and everything will be given to you
False
"Sometimes people might not get healed..." Well, that must be the understatement of the last ten thousand years or so.
One of the last steps in my deconversion, is completely summed up by these verses you spoke of today.
I wasn’t even fully out of Christianity, when I read how we will do greater things than Jesus, and I distinctly remember muttering to myself: “what a crock of shit!”
It took me by surprise.
I hadn’t realized how far out of the religion I actually was, until that came out of my mouth.
I guess you could say it was “inspired”.
wow thats so fascinating to hear. I love hearing the final straw and seeing how the whole house of cards comes down for people. I want to do a video on it.
@@MindShift-Brandon that would be fascinating!
But yeah, the “final straw”. I could be wrong, but I would assume for many, it sneaks up on you. It’s not something we willingly give up.
Anyway, great work as always, Brandon.
Thanks!
Here's a better take on your analogy of the son doing chores: it's not that his dad says he'll send money and does so a few times but then stops, it's that the boy finds pennies under the couch and attributed them to his dad "sending" them, akin to someone kicking a cold and attributing it to divine healing. But when the boy needs more money to buy something, he asks his mom and rationalizes that her money *must* have been sent to her by the dad, akin to going to a doctor but attributing their skills to god's blessing or intervention. The boys doesn't even consider that his mom must have worked hard and earned her own money, i.e. skills, knowledge, profession, etc.
A general comment on prayer or promises of prayer. Several years ago, I had heart surgery. Quite a few coworkers said they'd pray for me. I accepted this as well meant and sincere well wishing. It was not a time to get into teleological debates. I was glad to have the good intent and support in a time of difficulty.
That's how I try to look at it, though I also respect the opinion of my fellow non-believers who don't want people praying for them.
@@MindShift-Brandon Yes, such is my point. Simply accept the thoughtful intentions of another and put metaphysics aside.
A good friend of mine passed in 2021 from a relapse of brain cancer at stage 4 after 5 to 6 years of remission. Cancer is merciless. Although the doctor told her sister who was the chief caregiver that he didn't see any cancer tumour after the second round of operation in 2021, it became obvious that her body had failed on a cellular level by then and she had problems expressing herself due to the cognitive decline. Her elder sister and her were both Christians at a Charismatic church which believes in faith healing, and when I went to a faith healing rally last week to observe the behaviour of those believers, I got so angry and disgusted at the way the guest speaker and the pastor were positioning God as the genie in the bottle, or book, to control for one's ends.
I am Zambian. My former pastor was from Nigeria. Very charismatic prosperity gospel preacher. When I started questioning my beliefs I noticed that conviniently, most of his examples of miraculous healings he had performed either happened in the church (branch) in Nigeria or to people who were not present from our church. One particular example which actually pissed me off was his claim that he had healed a 7 year old girl with sickle cell anemia - basically, he was claiming to have miraculously "CRISPRed" her DNA🙄. I found this not only deceptive but infuriating and insensitive because within the church there was an 11 year old boy who we all new had sickle cell because from time to time he would be hospitalised and we would all pray about it with no cure to testify to. The best we ever got was recovery from episodes requiring hospitalisation.
Hey there. Man what a perfect but also tragic example. Thanks for sharing
@@MindShift-Brandon Anytime. I love your videos and here to support your mission.
I almost drowned once swimming, my friend pulled me to shore saving me. My father attributed my life being saved to God, completely disregarding my friend’s action out of his own free will and courage to help me.
false dichotomy
God causes someone to freely choose to do something good
@@tomtemple69 It wouldn't be free will then if God is making it happen. Why would he not make everyone freely choose to be Christian if he wants everyone to be saved?
@@BearMas depends on your definition of free will
@@tomtemple69 Okay, can I hear the definition you're using then?
@@BearMas you're the one saying that isn't free will ... you can't define free will?
The man born blind for the glory of God, which Jesus healed - that has to be one of the most awful testimony. Especially in those days, being born blind was psychologically, socially and financially a terrible form of suffering. His new sighted life starts off with strife with the most important institution in his community that shamed him and his family. Speaking to his therapist.. "I never did anything wrong, my parents never did anything wrong, Jesus healed me and now no woman wants to marry me, no one wants to give me a job, I can't even go begging on the street corner... You have no idea doc... Life isn't fair 😭😭😭"
This is so true. I think ill be doing a video on it soon actually
4:00 - I've taken to calling these videos, "fake apologetics". Many of them are branded as if they are for non-believers, but inevitably it turns out they are simply meant as quick fixes for doubting believers. And as you point out, being so short, they're not even that good: it's like some kind of alternative medicine that doesn't really work, but it's fast and easy so people go for it.
Agreed! Except i think it does work quite a bit sadly. These videos or things like them were just enough to keep me hanging on way longer than i should have.
@@MindShift-BrandonMe, too.
You put a rat in a Skinner box. Every time, the rat hits the lever, he gets a food pellet. After this conditioning gets established in the rat's behavior, you put the rat on an extinction schedule. The worst schedule for the rat's mental health is one where the system is random. Sometimes when the rat pushes the lever, he gets a pellet, sometimes an electric shock, and most of the time nothing. According to McDowell, we are rats in God's Skinner box on this extinction schedule..
Ohhhh love this
this is THE single factor that led me to my current place. But the regret and guilt for not being “smart” enough to make proper financial plans for the ultimate transition of my husband, continues to haunt me. 😒
Im so sorry to hear that
One thing that helped me deconstruct real fast was when I discovered South Park I used to picture Jesus and the father having the Terrance and Philip voices saying “let’s heal this one hahahaha”
lol!
Brandon, I am a PK and was a Youth Pastor at a point in life. Ultra Pentecostal, etc.
My siblings both have ataxia, we've been praying for more than 25 years. Nothing.
I focus now on being them in the now and enjoying the years I will have with them.
2. After I got shot down in Honduras (where I'm from) , the bullet cut a nerve called the 3rd cranial pair. The damage somehow made me lose almost half my field of vision (it's called homonymous hemianopsia) .
This was in 2016, all of 2017 through 2021; I was praying with "enough" Faith not to be healed from trauma and all the psychological bundle that PTSD brought along, but only, the prayer was only to restore that nerve so that my field of vision could go back to the default.
Nothing (shocker, huh? Lol)
Thank goodness that my resilient self keeps going and focusing on what I DO have now, hoping that some glass prisms can help me get around that vision issue I have now 😅
Thanks for your videos!!
Oh man so sorry to hear about your issues and also how much more trauma must have come from waiting on a god that was never there. Love your attitude though and hope you get it all sorted! Thanks for being here
I once seen an old woman faint in church from dehydration and the church officials called an ambulance. This alone is a red flag, that they don't even believe in pray for someone to get better. The mental gymnastics you have to do to stay in this faith is obscene
Right?!
Thank you for pointing out what it said in James 5. I will spread the word. I think I will start by asking any Christian who wears glasses, why he hasn't asked Jesus to fix his eyesight. If Jesus would just do as he promised, the money spent on eyewear, eye exams, etc. could be given to the poor. If we are a Christian nation, what is with all these optometrists and stores that sell glasses? Wouldn't that money be better used to feed starving children?
Thanks Brandon! The issue of healing was the main thing that drove my wife from the church. She kept calling them on these issues and they kept responding with the same old lame excuses for why god didn’t heal. The one we heard the most in our group was “well, sometimes the answer is just NO!”
oh man, i know that response well. I am so glad you guys made it out!
@@MindShift-Brandon As are we! 😁
Love what you’re doing Brandon!
I am really digging this channel. This content feels like it is very accessible to believers deliberately to challenge their preconceptions.
At 24:11 you talk about how easy it would be to believe in God if healing actually worked the way it did in the Bible. I couldn't agree more.
When I reflect on my own life and eventual journey out of religion I sometimes realize how many hundreds and thousands of opportunities I gave God to reward my faith or later to assuage my doubts.
My Father had a degenerative muscle disease that he was constantly getting prayed for about. Numerous times in my childhood he genuinely believed he was on the cusp of a miracle.
When someone asks 'you're an atheist but what would it take to convince you god is real?'. That's it, that one act of healing for my Father would have kept me a Christian.
I've been an atheist for more than a decade now. It never ceases to amaze me the lame excuses Christians conjure for the consistent failure of their God not just failing non-believers 'lost in sin' but failing them first and foremost.
Thank you so much for that and for sharing yourself.
I said I was depressed and after church a group of well meaning and caring people laid hands on me to cast out the “foul spirit of depression” out of me, like demons are the cause of depression! I know many Christians who are on depressants. That was 30 years ago and I still get depressed every few days…
I had that experience wth a Christian "counselor." I rebuffed her and found out my severe depression was due to five foods I was eating. Antiobiotics meant for a sinus infection cured me for good. I can now eat whatever I want.
Thank you Brandon for the important work but you were doing here. One of the things that I admire most about your videos is the passion that you display. I only found your channel yesterday and I have already watched 3 videos. I shared two of them on my Facebook page. I get so frustrated with my Christian friends when I point out the many, many things that are just downright evil and I get absolutely no response from my Christian friends.
I appreciate that so much. It is frustrating and so very sad to see people still trapped
Excellent video Brandon! I knew so many people who died believing they would be healed, and their god was silent. Yet they persisted in believing. It’s wild to me.
Wild indeed!
Trump is what started my journey out. Seeing people I respected make excuses for that man made me realize I'd been doing the same for god.
3:20 "Sometimes people might not get healed because they haven't expressed faith." And sometimes the faithless get healed because of good medical practices.
"You have not because you ask not." And sometimes you do because your own body can heal itself of some maladies.
"But is does _not_ follow that EVERY time somebody is not healed, it's because they lack faith. Why God heals some and why He doesn't heal others is God's sovereign will."
This sounds like the same result as if there is no god at all.
(Edit) 9:05 Thank you!
At least Sean debunks the whole "God wants to have a personal relationship with you" argument. If an omniscient, omnipotent and omni-benevolent being wants to have a personal relationship with you, but _won't_ cure your illness, then what kind of relationship is that? Sean has inadvertently described the God of Apathy.
right! my thoughts exactly. he gave enough excuses, outs, and contradicting ideas to simply negate god here.
Exactly. It is absolutely indistinguishable from there being no god at all...just as the "relationship" Christians claim to have with God (the one I claimed when I was a devout Christian) is completely indistinguishable from a "relationship" with an imaginary friend.
I love your Father/Son analogy you use in this! Its so good, I believe everything can be illustrated with this one analogy. My big problem with faith healing is not only its ineffectiveness its the shaming it can lead to, similar to the boy in the analogy no matter how loyally he does his chores when he doesn`t get the money we just shame him and tell him its his fault, I think it`s quite disgusting.
Thank you. Its always interesting to me as soon as we replace god with a real parent, his actions becomes so obvious
@@dainagrn7030 But you have dishonored your parents, regardless of how they reacted; which is the breaking of the 5th. commandment, of the moral law of God. I also as a young man dishonored my parents, and it proved painful a few years later on. Your parents are from the Lord for your protection and good.
@@dainagrn7030Is that what happened with you? When parents break God's moral law and abuse their children physically (not speaking about spanking and discipline) or mentally, then children need the protection that can be given them to escape that environment in any way possible.
@@christophergibson7155you’re wrong. The bible says simply to honour your parents. No ifs or buts or disclaimers. Just like it tells slaves to obey their cruel masters.
@@milkenobi And how do you honor your parents?
When my uncle had cancer and was receiving chemo my aunt and cousins were constantly praying and every improvement was given the response, "Praise god! "Jesus is working." When he eventually died the response was "God took him home". "He is with Jesus now". No mention of previous "answers" to prayers. My thought was, "So what was the point of all these improvements that god was credited for if he ended up letting him die in the end?" It is sad that my family was giving god the credit for what the doctors and meds were doing. My uncle was also sharing christ with other patients around him so it was not a lack of faith that stopped him from being healed. Recently a family member of mine got a new job after quite a lot of disappointments and the first response was, "Thank you Jesus!" So this christian god supposedly cares more about a person getting a job than healing a person from cancer? It's just all garbage however because prayers don't do anything. A person no matter their faith can get a job with or without prayer but the cancer my uncle had had a very bad survival rate that would not be effected by prayers. The chemo just delayed things.
Got to give god credit. He created a system that is always win/win for him. (if he existed)
@@MindShift-Brandon God not you without pathetic and empty words... you are not helping anyone!
It is so sad that your experiences of seeing God not showing up is how you came to the conclusion... "It's just all garbage". Sure, I know people who were prayed for to be healed and died anyways. I think we all have had those realities in life. I can only share my story. I re-married after being in a backslidden state away from the Lord living with my wife for 13 years. I was called back to Jesus in 2019-2020. I prayed for my wife for months, which turned in to years. On Easter Sunday this year ('23) she repented and trusted Jesus for her salvation, right around our dining room table. She felt such a peace come over her, she told me afterward. Was it just a coincidence?
Or did The Lord Jesus answer my continual prayer for her?(Of course you don't have to answer me). For myself, if the ground below me caved in, and I was swallowed up,
I would still believe the Word of God and the truth that is to be known and revealed therein.
@@christophergibson7155 There are stories of people that leave Islam or Mormonism and then return to the faith after prayer from family members. These individuals also feel a peace and comfort for returning to the religion. It provides a sense of security for a lot of people. That is why people join them. The problem is that these religions are not true and a lot of their beliefs are harmful. I apply those traits to Christianity too. The main issue is that all religions claim to be true but are entirely false. You don't have to accept that but it is what it is. I would be happy to have a loving god exist but wanting something doesn't make it true.
@@BluStarGalaxy There is a defining distinction between being born again by the Spirit of God, and knowing that The Lord Jesus Christ has forgiven and cleansed you from all sin. No other "religion" has such a promise. They are ALL
"works based" religions. In other words..."What MUST I do to make God accept Me. I stand with the proclamation of John the Apostle. For indeed it is surely mine also..."And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." (1John 5:20)
When I started going to church in my mid 20's I was on medication for bipolar and other things. Was told I didn't have faith and if I truly wanted to be saved I needed to stop taking them right away. I trusted the pastor. I stopped. Landed in the hospital. I did not tell him I went back on them. I hid my shame of not having enough faith and needing psychiatric medications. I've been in and out of church for 20ish years finding I didn't fit. Husband and kids not believers and I have dx's that to the churches I ended up in , showed I didn't have faith. Was made to feel worthless and unloved and that I was a disappointment to this god. I feel like it made my mental illness worse. The self torment was unbearable at times and I did try to end it all. If this god made me , then he made my mental illness, so why does that mean I lacked faith at that point. I do wish I had opened my eyes back then to how foolish this all ways but boy these pastors are so cunning. They know what to say and how to say it to keep you sucked in and made to feel horrible that you question. Why would a god who created us, our father, who loves us, why would he not heal us all? Why would he allow any of the bad to happen. It's such bs and abuse so the pastors can have a sense of power and money.
I see your points. I always saw many contradictions and choose to believe because the law of compassion gives me a sense where there is no sense. I would rather see my mom who died in March in heaven and not, that she is gone forever. On one hand, I had always kind of a feeling that I had life on easy mode, one could call that a blessing. Many times I was where I was supposed to be at the right time, to learn essentiell things. On the other hand I never had the feeling that God answered a prayer from me. I prayed for my mom to get healed from her illnesses (non lethal but very bad), I made people pray for that who are way more believing. I asked God to tell me she is now safe in heaven. But as always - nothing.
While there are still all the contradictions. I can't possibly take the bible word by word. That can't work. Then some things may just be symbolic. It still doesn't work. To see God as consistent. I see a vengeful God - and actually it seems as if he even regrets the big flood and changes - the inchangable. And suddenly, the law of compassion is most important. But why didn't God gave it to the people of Israel in the first place.
I have reasons to want to believe. But my sense of logic contradicts with that. I don't want the world to be something that just happened. I want justice to exist, I want something like the unconditional love Christians speak of. But I don't feel that. I don't see justice. There are people suffering from early childhood. They have been mistreated and raped and they can't believe in a God who let that happen. They might kill themselves. So they would go to hell? Did they have any other chance in the beginning? But where is the justice? Where is the love?
I choose to watch your videos and confront my stoic believe with the cold facts you deliver. I don't know what to believe. I don't know where to find sense in my depression, in my Moms death, how to keep my ideals. I feel like if I leave faith, I might just go straight to Nihilism.
"Godly mental health counselling" endorsed a potentially abusive situation, and following their advice could have led to actual life-changing crimes.
In my case, it gave me another (unnecessary) reason to avoid getting the professional help that actually saved my life - and the lives of my children. If you're reading this and struggling with mental health issues, don't trust god for help - and don't rely on Christian friends/family. Get the professional help - tell your doctors.
Knock down doors because you're probably going to have to. There are places and people that will help you.
such good advice. I too know of so many horror stories. Christianity is just getting in the way of real help!
This was a very important video for me to watch. For me the reward was getting married. Everyone around me was getting married and I was so dedicated to God and kept on asking what’s wrong with me. Turns out that the higher power and mysterious ways was the church leadership who deemed me not husband material. I left that destructive church, found an amazing girl and honestly believed that I was being rewarded for all my hard work and dedication. You can only guess that when we broke up I lost my fucking mind
Oh man, so very sorry to head this. This is what that religion does. Makes you question and second guess constantly. Never allows you to win and ensures that you lose.
Yep, same. They make marriage look like the only thing you need and something that everyone gets. Fucks your head up immensely when you aren't good enough to get it. It's a miracle I'm not in the dirt from it already, tbh
But Sean, they can't give money to the needy, there won't be any left for the pastor and he needs a new jet.
ha!
Christians say that Jesus Christ ministry on earth is the perfect representation of God the Father and the Godhead's attitude towards mankind. Notice how in all the gospels Jesus Christ never once denies someone healing, he waffles on the boy with the doubting father, but eventually heals him. There is no precedent for God denying healing in the Gospels, not a single instance, and yet we are to believe that healing by supplication nowadays is a coin flip with the same God who freely healed everyone before.
love this point!
SAY IT AGAIN !! You made an excellent point!!
Excellent point!!
Well put Brandon! Great video! 🤍🤍🤍
This video hits deep. As a Christian I suffered with lower back pain for the entirety of my "faith life". The pain was awful and i would think why doesn't god heal me, surely I have the faith of a mustard seed, I am serving him, I am going to church sitting on painful chairs, tithing and sowing seeds. The bible says ask and it shall be given etc. I then came to the conclusion he just isn't there
A perfect summation. It really is this simple. Sorry for what you had to go through. Happy you are at least on this side of it now.
I had lower back pain for many years. I dealt with it using painkillers and a targeted exercise regime. I came through it without ever asking God for healing, but never doubted his presence.
@@ChrisSmith-xh9wb good for you. Probably what I would just consider a niggle but there you go
Great topic!! This is where the rubber meets the road! I can't contain my anger at the people who let their children suffer excruciating pain and wasting because their parents think that God will provide. Talk about evil!
Yes indeed!
Often a terminally ill person will improve just a little at points during their sickness. When they do it’s deemed a miracle! Usually they end up in huge decline again in weeks and then you will hear crickets. Just imagine if during the very worst part of the sickness, you walk in to see your loved one and since yesterday they were out of bed, talking, laughing, and were 50lbs heavier and fully dressed themselves, ready for the day. Imagine the impact if it happened just one time, just one time.
New to your channel but i really appreciate them, blatant and no nonsense, no BS,wish more people didnt sugar coat things in the world
Probably my biggest issues. Thank you for this!
Thats really interesting. Ive been meaning to out a poll out to see what anyone who has deconverted would say their the number 1 reason was. Thanks for watching!
This one hits home dude. I have some verses that come to mind that are a big part of what lead me to deconversion. I was raised on KJV so pardon the ye's thou's and shall's 🤦🏼♂️😂
Matthew 21:22
22 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."
Mark 11:24
24 "Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."
John 14:13-14
13 "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son"
14 "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it."
Matthew 17:20
20 "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."
It doesn't say "ask in my name and I MIGHT do it." All of them literally say "ask in my name and I'm GOING to do it." It says ask in my name and you WILL get it."
And the last verse about the mustard seed and the mountain proves that it's not a lack of faith because it says all it takes is faith the size of a grain of mustard seed and your mountain WILL move. Its a promise that should have a 100% success rate. It should be all hits, no misses. This absolutely cannot be reconciled in my eyes.
Sorry if you cover any of these verses in the video, I'm like 6 minutes in and these verses came to mind and I had them saved in my notes so once again I apologize ahead of time if I'm saying a bunch of sh*t you already said lol. I'm about to kick back and watch the rest of this now. Love your channel bro. Much love my man.
I do cover most of them, actually, ha! But its no worries. Just more proof that when one reads this stuff and takes it seriously, the flaws come out! Thanks so much for the kind support!
Okay yeah you did, my fault for thinking I was saying something original 😂 but you definitely confirmed every doubt I have regarding this topic. I experienced loss recently and I was still a Christian at that point and the guilt I felt for "not having enough faith" was insane. Deconversion actually made my grief a little easier because I let go of that guilt and it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders.
I am so sorry to hear about the loss but so glad to hear you made it out!
There have been poor Christians since the start of the church. Why don't we hear of thousands of stories of Christians getting a pile of gold suddenly appear for them. I think it's because there is another component in these scriptures that was understood better in its day or possibly got lost in the translation. So someone prays for a pile of gold and it doesn't appear but instead, maybe a stranger shows up out of the blue and gives you a hundred dollar gift which was just the amount you needed to pay a bill. Other scriptures show that there was more than an unlimited ask and receive principle being taught.
Brandon is was gold! Let me ask, does the Bible say "God/Jesus will/can heal you in heaven"? I hear believers say this when someone was sick and died. "Well, you know Jesus can heal her/him in heaven" I wonder if that is Biblical.
I know of a woman and man who were good people, believers, man got cancer, they prayed in Jesus name for a miracle for a healing, I am sure they had others pray in Jesus name for him also. Poor guy died and wife was in a spin, "We were going to beat this" They were people of faith, and the bottom dropped out. I doubt she nor any of the faithful left the church.
Thank you so much. I think all that would be based of the “new bodies” we get in heaven that experience no pain, death, suffering, or sickness. Theres so many problems with that in general also. Either way his promise wasnt to heal them in heaven. The context was clearly on earth. Otherwise he would have told the blind man, you are healed and will now see in heaven, nope he gave him sight back in this realm. Thats my two cents. And your story is so sad and worse, so very common
Preach it bro, these false promises are dangerous and need to be exposed, children are literally dying for their parents faith, or lack thereof. Imagine Jesus shaming people for not being able to heal the sick or make mountains jump into the sea, telling them their faith is smaller than a mustard seed, after their child just died of cancer. This is EVIL.
Thank you so much for what you do! I'm deconstructing right now and it's been hard. Videos like these help 💜
You are very welcome! I know its a tough road ahead, but is worth it! Keep learning and reach out if you need anything.
Brandon this is phenomenal! ❤❤
My husband and I have just watched in FULL (as always) and are blown away, constantly agreeing and realising what you are saying is reality, non of this biblical world view is true!
Love that you two watch together. Thank you so much for that!
Funny story, even the idea of religious healing can be dangerous. Back in 2019, there was reportings of a 'miracle healing' at a baptism pool in Atlanta. I was building my doubts, but I was still very active in the church, workig the projectors and setting stuff up for Sat. night service. Me and the pastor, who I was pretty good friends with, were settinng up when we noticed smoke. Turned out, last night, someone broke into the church building to try and recreate the healing. I think they were drunk or something. But they never drained the baptism pool, so a lot of it evaporated over time, and ended up condensating on some wires and caused an electrical fire when we turned the building on.
Lol that is funny. At least no one actually got hurt.
😳
@@MindShift-Brandon yea, it was minor, and there was no damage. But its always funny to look back, as a christian and now as an atheist. Keep making great content, I especially love your Secular Bible Study. You are helping so many people.
My health started a permanent sharp decline 8 years ago at age 45. Even as a semi-believer at that time, I never prayed to be healed. My thought was, “bad things happen to good & bad people every day. I’m nobody special to be exempt from reality.” My wife continues to be a believer. I can’t count how many times people said “I’m praying & know god will heal you.” Ha ha ha. I don’t believe anymore & have been to church since Covid started. I feel like I’d be a mental basket case if I’d been expecting a miracle for 8 years. I’m looking at reality.