How Do I Regulate My Seiko Watch? 7S26, 4R36, NH36, NH35 Movement Regulation with Timegrapher
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2020
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How do I regulate my watch?
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The pace of 7S series is tricky, when you don't wear the watch, it's okay to set a desired pace.
From my experiences:
- 0.0 ms beat error sometime gives a huge position error between best and worst position, a few beat error has a chance to reduce it.
- unlike Swiss movement the amplitude is generally low at 180 < x < 260 sounds real healthy.
When we wear the watch, the balance wheel is in the dynamic momentum, adding gyro error. These tend to result low amplitude and slow it down.
For the general 24/7 wrist setting is about +10 seconds within
I've found a similar thing with my NH36 movement. Took a few adjustments, and some trial and error wearing the watch. Wish I'd seen your comment first lol :-)
But now, on my wrist there is almost +/- 0sec/day variation, and
I agree... at first I wanted 0.0ms beat error, but made it more difficult overall... anywhere between 0.5 to 0.3 ms seems to give me best results, so now I target for 0.3ms.
I experienced this with my cocktail time. Adjusted it for 0 and noticed it was losing 10 seconds per day. Changed it to +10 and now it’s almost always at around +-1 sec per day
I love how real this video is, and your effort to teach and show us how to regulate our watches, hopefully you can get a better camera.
This is an old video. I did upgrade to a nice camera now. Thanks!
Thank you for this video. The "macro"was just fine. I recently bought a timegrapher and have been watching videos on how to use it. Till now I had no idea how to tweek the beat error.
I really appreciate your effort. To me looks so perfect the image quality. And the teachings are awesome. God bless you. You keep our minds focused and you are so talented.
Very well explained and displayed. Very important how you mentioned that the beat has to be adjusted first and then the rate. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing this. It helps.
On my side a use a toothpick with small bumps. So I don’t scratch anything and I don’t move the pitch to much. 👌
Based on how I wear and rest stand the watch on a usual day, I will regulate in those positions.
Then for my use, I regulate at 12h for when on the watch stand (45° angle).
Also 9h up when wearing walking,
And finally dial up for when working hands above the keyboard.
And final test, would be wearing for a few days to see how it works.
According to my habits I may speed up or down so that on a daily use the average is finally the closest to 0.
Even if the time Grapher would say more on a one shot one position check. 👌
Awesome! Very well done and informative. Now I've learned something. I had no idea where the adjustment was for the beat error. Now I do!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Regardless of the camera angles and other technical issues. This was an excellent video. Outstanding content. Very well done. thanks
thanks for stopping by and enjoying the content!
Thank you very much for the instructions. I initially moved the rate in the wrong direction and ended up with -300s/day -- I was not aware how miniscule movements cause such big adjustments to the rate. After a bit of trial and error I ended up with -1s/day, very happy with that.
great job! and thank you for watching!
Congrats you’ve gained yourself a new subscriber... Amazing content🔥💯
This video is 2 years old but is really amazing! 👍🏼👍🏼
✌🏼😎👍🏼
Excellent tutorial. Thanks for posting.
considering your challenges with the camera, you got great footage! thanks for the video
Awesome, thank you!
Never had a need for this info until now. Your video is the first on I clicked on and had no problem using your info to fix my home built watch. Awesome video.
You are welcome!
Look, you’re apologizing for the camera angles, but this is a SUPERB tutorial for regulating the movement! Many thanks.
What an extremely helpful video. Now I need to learn how to remove the old movement and how to put the new one in without damaging the hands . Thanks . May you be well
Perfect job, congratulations.
And thank you very much for sharing.
Thank you! Cheers!
Fantastic video! Very informative! I am new and learned so much. Makes it seem less daunting and more obtainable to learn to do yourself.
Be careful glad I could help
Wow amazing vs once I did a minuscule beat adjustment on a 7S26C and it caused a noisy beat never to be recovered. Problems are you cannot buy genuine balance spring assemblies & escape levers so this watch is scrap and I've learnt to live with how they operate ex 🏭 factory and enjoy as you need way more watch making skills than a hobbyist could ever learn when unexpected things happen. So you that have skills & knowledge 👏 you are all amazing!
You did a great vid. All good stuff.
Very helpful thank you! Love the blooper at the end lol
Glad you enjoyed it!
I also love your effort. Greetings from Barcelona, Catalonia. I have an FNGeen 12€ automatic watch. I am testing this new watch. After 25 hours got about +5 seconds error. And resting still after 28!hours and still ticking .
hello from el coño de la bernarda :)
Not the greatest video, but priceless information. Thank You!
Very nice video. Thank you so much
This was gold! Thanks mate🎉
Glad it helped!
That was very, very helpful! I didn’t mind the camera angle at all. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
@@EscapementWatch would you be able to settle the question of whether its harmful to the movement to set the minute hand backwards 1 minute on a 7s26c?
not harmful just go slow and not to far back if your worried. 10min max.
Thanks for posting this! I've always read that Seiko movements usually respond very well to straightforward regulating, glad to see you put it into action. 😃😃😃👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 Seems like it's now time for you to invest in some upgraded camera equipment! 😁😁😁
Everytime I save a couple grand I end up buying watches! Maybe in a year or two hopefully ☺️ thanks for watching
Very good video. Thank you very much.
Thank you for the great video. I just fixed my Sbdc101 from 1.4be and +37sec to 0.4be and +2🥳
Fantastic!
Thank you for the tutorial 🤙
Thanks for the video, very helpful
You're welcome!
Very insightful, thanx for sharing
My pleasure!
Very handy info. Thank you.
You're welcome!
I learned a lot from this. Trying to get my own Weishi 1000 soon because I’ve got too many seiko watches lol. Thanks for the help.
Glad to help!
Thank you so much for this video!
Glad it was helpful!
Great vid thanks.
Fantastic video
Great video.. very much enjoyed it
Glad you enjoyed it
Great effort.
4R36 here on a seiko sports automatic; after 1 week lost like half second per day on an average! i love it!
thanks for the video, my 4 year old skx just started rattling (loose rotor) and gain 2 minutes everyday.
Thank you so much
This is great...!!! Thank you brother!
Welcome!
After I changed my dial and hands to mod my Seiko, I noticed that the time was way off like 5 minutes slow per 8 hours. I probably messed up the setting while touching the movement. Although I don't have a timegrapher, I was able to tweak it around (observed for 5 minutes after each tweak) after watching your video and now I got to a point where I am seeing no gain or loss after an hour. Probably still not as accurate as 0 beat error but this is fun and great! You saved me $50 😁😁
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Very helpful information
Glad to hear that
Thank you for this!
No worries!
Thank you very much
excellent video!
Glad you liked it!
Hi. I love these kinda things. No worries about the cam angles. You keep it funny. So why do they make that movement with no hand winding? How do people keep it running ?
Hey michael! they keep it running on the wrist and power reserve. SKX007 doesn't hand wind. old school style. its tough to live with sometimes. But a watch winder helps!
I like u Content,
Good job bro🙏
Thank you 🙌
Great video, tnx!!
Glad you liked it!
@@EscapementWatch thank you a lot
Yes. Great vid
Glad you enjoyed it
hi. i see that you adjust the beat error also towards the plus, even if you had to lower it to zero. how come?
Do you perform regulating service? I have a watch with a Seiko NH35A. It's running slow 20 seconds/day. I was thinking of just speeding up the rate my self but I don't know if that's a good idea.
I bought Invicta pro diver last week. It has NH35A movement. It runs 12 seconds slow everday. Is it normal?
Thank you ❤
You're welcome 😊
Hi! I have a Spinnaker that runs on an NH35 movement and I'm troubled by an issue. My watch runs wildly. Within 15 minutes, the time fluctuates (if that is the correct term) like it's getting delayed by 5 mins then it's going to advance by 5 mins. This keeps on happening within the span of 15 mins. There is even a time when it stops running while it's powered up and on my wrist.
When a movement "hacks", like this one, it is good practice to stop the machine before regulating, so as to undergo less risks of damaging the spiral.
I think that is a good idea incase you nick the balance it may help out not getting tangled!
@@EscapementWatch I've "tangled" before. It was a great experience in learning. Your dexterity and precision in those adjustments was nasty nice. Good work.
Thank you for the very informative video. Is it possible to regulate the movement when it's still in the watch case? Or does it have to be taken out of the case?
Yes, absolutely
How did it run “Face up” once cased?
First time i tried (way before watching your video), screw driver slipped and I damaged hairspring, so to you all out there, be very careful not to touch hairspring. And yeah, fix beat error first...
No hand winding is not a big deal, but you need to put that watch at different angles and see if it still stays at zero, but I would be happy with what you did you need to learn your watch if your watch is going to be off a minute a week well every week You move your watch a minute slower
,you got to work around things, like the sights on a gun if it shoots low you aim high
Good job, keep working please!
Hi, nice video! Just to confirm, is it 8 full 360° rotations of the ratchet wheel that result in full wind of the mainspring?
Yes correct.
Thanks for the helpful video. Is it better adjust with dial up or down?
It's easier to do a dial down but make sure you calculate the variation between dial down and dial up and then adjust accordingly because you want to adjust for dial up in the end.
@@EscapementWatch thanks a lot!!!
My Captain Willard is losing about 10s p/d. is it worth me having a go without owning a timegrapher?
It's not an accurate way to regulate a non chronometer movement like this because you have only regulated in face up position so the 0.0 seconds a day means nothing to the accuracy.
The proper way to regulate a movement like this is wear your watch for a week and measure if it runs fast or slow while wearing, and then measure each position at night (dial up, crow down, ect) then choose one overnight position and adjust as close as you can to that measurement of wearing + one positional change. Doing it your way means the watch could be incredible fast or slow when wearing and then even worse while not wearing.
So for a basic example if your watch is running 5 seconds fast a day while wearing, and 10 seconds slow in a crown down position you would regulate only the crown down to -5 seconds (or whatever the average loss or gain is) Therefore achieving as close 0 as possible in the 2 positions the watch will be in mostly throughout the day.
Thanks for your input! I understand i was going to do a positional variance video in the future and how I like to account for it. But just for kicks. my skx mod has an nh36 doing 0, 4, 1, 0 in 4 positions. So sometimes you dont have to think too much about it.
@@EscapementWatch If you want an accurate watch, buy a quartz :P.
My Seiko (6R15) is the most accurate, ranging +- 4s, but averaging at about 0 seconds over a month. It truly doesn’t seem to lose or gain time.
My Stowa (Unitas 6498) is the most precise ranging between +3.3 and +4.5s, but not the most accurate. I guess the Stowa could be regulated to further it’s accuracy, but considering it’s not hackable, I don’t mind.
One week later after adjusting multiple times the speed of the 4R35 in my King Samurai (SRPE35K1), I've finally hit the "sweet spot", and now it runs with only between +-5 to 10 sec. per day!
I highly recommend you do it yourself with your own wristwatch tools kit.
Great to hear!
Mine is king samurai also, but it is not - 35 to + 40 / perday, not that much, isn't it to risky to open and close the watch oftenly, it will wear the seal on the watch? I dont mind to have time gap, in the end you have to regulate again when it changing again next next years to come
Great vid sir. Very informative.
When I adjust my 7s26, it affects the beat error.
I have no idea why and it drives me insane
Hello sir,,just wana ask,,some of the videos on youtube says not to touch the big one on balance wheel?is it okay if i adjust it without time grapher?
you can adjust with real world timing. So time it first for 24 hours while wearing it. Then open it up and adjust very small rate. (Do not touch the beat level as I did in this video.) Then wear the watch 24 more hours and time again. Keep doing one adjustment every day until you dial it in. This is the only way without a machine.
Thank you so much for the video I think it will be helpful
I have a question
The device seems to move too easily
If I put it in a case and assemble it, won't the position be changed by the impact?
This may be a very obvious question, I'm a beginner
thanks
Sorry I do not fully understand the question. Which Impact? if you drop the movement you mean?
One question. Is it true automatic watches suffer from hot weather.? Here we get around 37 to 40 degrees Celsius. Thanks so much for your tutorials and experiments and testing and prefect adjustments
Yes all movements are effected by cold or hot extreme temperatures. Hot slows it. Cold speeds it.
The Bergeon screwdriver tips are chipped likely from using it for tasks other than engaging screws. A beech wood dowel is often used when touching metal parts that do not require significant force.
disagree tho. a good quality driver will bent a little instead of chipping. showing it has to much hardness.
Great vid for people just getting into regulating their seiko watches 👍🇬🇧
thank you. I will talk about positional variance in a later regulator video.
I like your video. Can you give me your opinion? I just bought a new seiko 5 (SNKE49K1, 7S26 movement) on A-zon and I'm finding the power reserve is about 26 hours. The general wisdom is about 40 hours. I start by shaking it for a minute and I wear it all day. I wonder if it's possibly defective? (There was no plastic cover on the display back.) Thank you.
It is possible it is not getting enough motion during the day. Are you active or more? Sedentary? You can try buying a watch winder to fully top it up and test it out that way
@@EscapementWatch Well I'm pretty active. I see your suggestion. Thanks.
Hi
Quick questions. Your NH35A says Seiko underneath, but mine says nothing. The stamping on my rotor also looks thinner. It gains about 13 secs in a day, which is within specs, but enough to be annoying. It’s a cheap Aliexpress homage, but I love everything else about it. Do you think the movement might be a fake? I’ve been looking for a cheap Seiko to swap the movements, but the Seiko 5 uses a VR36 as far as I can tell, with the day complication, so not sure if it would work.
Thanks so much for this video.
4R36. I would have to see it to confirm but it might be a clone
the videoing is a bit clunky but the info was solid, and seeing someone actually do it is priceless. I have just sorted the balance on my 'scrapper' NH36, so now I know exactly where to go to sort out my beat error, THEN do the time regulation. Many thanks!
excellent video and camera work, PLEASE though don't do this slow zoom as it is nauseating. Thank you!!
So now that I know how to regulate the movement, if you change its position (e.g. vertically) and you adjust it, aren't you undoing what you did in the first position?
Yes! you might get lucky like my skx which in 4 positions is basically the same. *NOT COMMON* so you have to take an average of the 3 main positions. Dial up. 12 - Down and crown up is the last and least critical its basically when holding your phone your crown is up. get the average after 30min in each position and then regulate to that. number. So for a customer the other day his nh35 would vary by 7-12s in the main positions. so I did dial up +7s and 12 down -7s. They are reporting about 0s a day on wrist. So this is just a way to dial it in at first and most likely get it way better then it was from factory. make sure you have a steady hand. if you hit the balance spring you may kill the balance and need a replacement.
Does anybody know why i happen to regulate the 7s26 to nearly +3 sec a day after shaking it to i would say a full wind, then 24 hrs later i check the movement performance again on the timegrapher and it displays a +30 sec a day ? And my beat error is very good, at 0.1- 0.2
Really informative video, thanks for sharing the knowledge! The camera angles worked well too.
If it's that simple to regulate these lower end movements to 0spd, what justifies the huge jump in price for higher end movements? Does accuracy drift off faster compared to higher end movements, meaning you've got to constantly regulate them again?
Wrist Watching positioning accuracy is often the big difference. With a higher end movement the reading on the time grapher will be a lot more stable regardless of the position. (Dial up, down, on the side...). With a 7S26 the rate, amplitude and beat error will be very different with each position.
I find my Seiko's regulating them when they are new is useless mostly. after a month or 2 of wear its better. The results will last longer. Then I'd do a tune up every year. But luck is also involved. for example my skx007 mod is very accurate in 4 positions (which is not common) and its coming up on a year and only 1-2 seconds drift. So with these low end movements. they are not all created equal. you can get a really good one. you can get a really bad one. luck of the draw! hope that helps a bit.
@@cCcMamaw Thanks for the explanation. I definitely have that rate and amplitude issue with my 7S26 and my 6R15 too.
@@EscapementWatch Thanks, that makes a whole lot of sense with them being the luck of the draw. I find the 7S26 in my SKX007 to have much better positional variance than the 6R15 in my SARB033. Seems like you've struck gold with your SKX mod too!
yes i did!
Thanks it's a informative little video
Is there a way the intentionally adjust amplitude? When I adjust beat error my amplitude changes drastically.
Having a watch in perfect Beat gives you the strongest amplitude possible for that movement and condition of movement
I have this movement in a "Rotate North" watch. I've had it for 3 months now, and having timed it every day for 6 weeks, it loses 22 or 23 sec every day, never varies. ( if I leave it face down for 24 hrs, it loses 16 sec ) I wear it all the time, including swimming 3 - 4 miles a week. I don't have a timegrapher, just the app, which doesn't seem to give reliably consistent results. As the watch is so consistent, would you recommend just regulating it, and not touching the beat error? Any comments would be appreciated, thank you
yes if you have your real life usage an d its -23s a day consistently then just go to the positive side 23s and you will be happy!
@@EscapementWatch thank you, actually it was 7 secs slow when face down not 16 as I stated, I'll make a soundproof box for my iPhone mic and try the app face down, and try to get it to plus 7. Thanks for your help
I have a Seiko 7s36 watch that is out of synch and gains time too quickly, looks like it needs slowing down. My son dropped it when he was young and I think that's where the problem started
If you should use a loupe to regulate the watch, which magnification would you choose?
10x
hi, i got a 4r36a with the beat error WAYY of, so much that the phone app cant recocnise it(watch accuracy meter), and it gains 1 hoour a day... will the timegrapher be able to get the timings back, or is it too much of??
It can!
You can do this with the crown fully out? So the movement is quiet... And no risk of touching the balance wheel???
Yes you can
How do I know what direction to go with the beat error stud?
The further you move the beat error adjustment the higher the beat error gets. But moving the stud either way TOO FAR WILL INCREASE BEAT ERROR! Its hard to explain. Its the time between the clockwise spin and then the reverse counter clockwise spin of the balance wheel. And your adjusting the banking point of the impulse to be dead center. So you want to be in the center of the swing. So trial and error is used to find which way reduces that error. BUT if you go to far that way it will increase it again. So pulling it left or right increases the beat error. And pulling it left or right decreases the beat error. Depends which side of the swing you are on at the moment. hope that makes sense. TL:DR = trial and error
Is best to regulate it with a full wound? Or does it needs just a little juice to keep it ticking only?
Always full
Hi your beat angle should it not be at 52 degrees? Because you have actually have a 7s26?
no its still 53
Awesome video- I’ve got an skx that’s gone way out of whack at + 5 minutes or so
I don’t understand why seiko doesn’t regulate their new watches when it’s this easy??
they produce thousands and thousands of watches each day would be more expensive to hire more people for this and production would slow dramatically.
There is also the factor that a watch movement made with moderate tolerances, i.e. relatively cheap has as brand new some "break-in", which means that the regulation drifts for some time after the watch has been taken to use.
A high grade movement drifts very little as new, and most likely has also gotten extra care in factory by been let run for some time even prior to casing.
I'm confused. If it's - seconds shouldn't you turn towards the + side?
correct! but the way the circle lever is...if I push away from + the pointer is going towards +
Seiko movement always come with 0.3 beat error but can be regulated to 0 with time grapher.
If my watch is only running a couple seconds low per day on a full charge, can I just speed it up and not worry about the beat error? I don’t have a device to check for accuracy except for comparing it to a known accurate source daily.
Yes you can just change the rate. No need to touch beat error unless it is crazy of like 0.5ms or higher
@Escapement & Watch if the beat error is high can it damage the watch. I have this movement, and the time keeping is pretty good but the beat rate error is high like 1.2/1.3. Would you just leave it ? I also have a new spb 143 and the beat error fluctuates to nearly 0.5 beat error the positional variance is crazy as well. Think need to get out of seiko asap.
if you put an angled mirror on top of the watch (like cooking TV shows) you may get the show you want without you being obstructed by the camera
hmm interesting idea! ty
I learned set beat error first, then regulate. How would you get the amplitude into the 300 zone?
strip the whole movement down and clean it in ultrasonic cleaner. Then follow seiko manual and re-oil in specific spots. there are about 5-6 different oils used in this movement. The oils are expensive.
@@EscapementWatch thanks, so I guess it's a matter of power train effeciency. Minimize any friction between mainspring and escapement to generate a more powerful impulse to set the balance wheel a swinging.
Well said!!!
@@EscapementWatch thanks, your video and comments sorted things out for me, it's not as voodoo as I once thought.
more bloopers please.
ha! thanks most of the time I cannot show them. they are too ridiculous but i'll try. there is one in the seiko skx mod build guide video at the very end.
How do you deal with positional variance? My 7S26 based diver is running accurately during the day but at night, with the dial up, is losing tons of time.
You can't. The movement engineering, materials, and how well it was serviced plays a factor. It is from the balance spring and how gravity is effecting it. It could be improve with different materials or a free sprung balance. What you can do is wear it normally, then put it dial up normally and time it with an app. If it is for example -10 seconds doing that daily just put it on the time grapher and see its current rating in any position. If you have it on the timegrapher upside down and its doing +15sec for example then just make it +25sec. Add 10. Then for how you wear your watch it will be perfect.
@@EscapementWatch thank you! I am using a timing app. While oh my wrist it runs -2 to 0 spd and while I sleep while wearing it about -9 or -10 spd. Last night I took it off and left it dial side up and it was like -80spd!
maybe it was just a fluke. Try again another day to make sure the -80 is correct
My invicta is 7 days old today and it runs about 30ish seconds fast each day. Should i send this back for an exchange? I've heard of invicta's having much better accuracy out of the box than 30ish seconds fast each day.
Hi, how is your invicta running right now? Fast or slow ?
I bought my invicta last week. It runs 12 seconds slow each day.
@@alihaydarerdogan8257 now it worked itself out and is running about 3 seconds flat on the wrist. straight up and down it's about 2 seconds slow. So i guess it was just because it was new and all the springs were extra stiff.