Does Your Hobby Have Enough "Completion?"
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Does the hobby you enjoy have enough completion in it to keep you interested? Or does it feel like treading water? I compare tabletop wargaming to some other hobbies for completion's sake.
I'm now a partner on Twitch! Painting minis and terrain every Friday morning and Monday night, and sometime taking paint breaks (video games). Follow me: / tabletopminions
Official Tabletop Minions t-shirts: bit.ly/merchbunker
Help support the channel on Patreon: / tabletopminions
Follow Tabletop Minions on Twitter: / tabletopminions
Follow Tabletop Minions on Instagram: / tabletopminions
Check out the website: www.tabletopmin...
Chat, ask questions, and communicate with Atom
The Hobby is the Models we made along the way.
yes
The feeling of a completed model that you’re actually proud of is honestly one of the best feeling I absolutely love it. I collect and paint and build have a couple army’s now. But I don’t play
This for sure. I barely ever play any of the games I paint.
Totally with you on this. Over the last 12 years I have bought, built, and painted an obscene amount of both Fantasy/AoS and Warhammer 40k. I have never played a single game of either.
Glad I found my support group 😂. I doubt I will ever play, but completing my first squad was such a rush
We're in the same boat.
AOS has some beautiful models to paint
When you accidentally hobby too long, the results from this hobby are more rewarding than video games. Excellent point!
Totally agree about "losing time" in video games versus "investing time" in building/painting models, as it feels. Great video!
you dont lose time if you enjoy what you're doing.
I lost a bunch of time in AC Odyssey, once my senses dulled to the beauty of the graphics, it was basically work. (especially Fate of Atlantis)
@@sebastianwei7721 This is literally what pushed me into this hobby. I was just going through the motions on Odyssey and just didn't feel any sense of accomplishment. Then I got a learn to paint quick and a quick couple of hours later I had a horribly painted potato that I could hold and call my very own!
@@jasontrinque we all love our misshapen potatoes with swords
The fighting game community would like to have a word with you
Hehehe, I like that point about video games. when I accidentally play galciv3 all night I feel bad, when I accidentally paint all night I feel proud! :-)
feel the same too...
I still feel proud when playing Gal Civ3 or Endless Space 2. When I get sucked backed into League of Legends on the other hand...
The whole video in one sentence 😀.
Was the same here, but I reduced video-gaming drastical, and Im very happy with it.
Video games = eating a well made burger
Miniature wargames = hunting a boar and sharing the meat with a tribe
Unless you are the one creating the video games ;)
My other ‘hobby’ is playing golf. It has taken me 20 years of playing, practicing, and taking lesson to get to the point that I feel good at it. So it’s about the same timeline as getting an army painted. Hahahaha
LMAOOOOOOOO
Good one!
My job allows me to play The Old Course at St Andrews for free...
I don't play golf.
😄
FOOOORRRRE!
How do you afford TWO expensive hobbies?? My other hobby is disc golf cuz its relatively cheap 😭😭
Totally nailed it, the satisfaction is seeing these kill-teams face off in my small display case, fully painted. Conquering friends on the battlefield is just a bonus.
I agree, it’s two complementary hobbies.
I assemble and paint models, but not interested yet in playing games like Warhammer.
Exactly!
Agreed. They co-exist. But aren't necessarily symbiotic.
Having a physical item to show for my time is a huge part of why I like the hobby so much. Its also really nice to have the modeling part to focus on during COVID when its not possible to get together and play, say, MTG with people.
I'm definitely in the camp that likes building and painting more than playing. It took me a long time to realize I need to enjoy the road while I'm on it rather than be discouraged that I'm not at the destination yet.
"Accessibility" is the answer. Today people don't want to "work" to enjoy something, that's why video games represent such a massive market. You buy them (you don't even have to go to a store, you just buy the games online), you install them and you're ready to go.
There are much more barriers to start with our hobby. You have to buy all the tools you need (clippers, glue, paints, etc.), you have to build your models, then paint them, then you have to find someone to play with, and a place to do so, etc.
I have no one to play with, but I keep on crafting tabletop terrain and painting minis, because that's what I like to do, express my creativity (even if I'd like to play a game sometimes...). But people who just want to play, won't have the patience to "complete" all those prerequites to actually start playing a tabletop wargame.
But the feeling you get when you finally finish building a 100% recycled materials tabletop terrain, or when you finish painting your squad, man, that's why I keep on hobbying allone, your creativity takes form, in a certain way, your dreams become reality.
Hey Adam, I’d really love to hear your take on this actually being two hobbies - and I agree with that take completely.
I’ve collected citadel miniatures for around 17 years now, starting off with the crave of painting miniatures. As my friends and I grew a little older we really got into the tabletop battle side of the hobby, and though it was a fun period I felt that “painting to build an entire army” kind of fizzled our the excitement of painting and converting for me.
I kept going on and off the hobby for around 6 years now, maybe painting 3 minis a year at most. I allowed Video Games to take over most of my free time.
In April this year I decided to dust off pile of shame and attempt painting again. Around 8 months have passed now and I have never painted so much, and enjoyed the hobby to a point where I didn’t think possible. I’m painting stuff I never painted, and also picking some new ‘random’ models that look like they’d be a fun painting project. The satisfaction of seeing all the colour schemes and conversions I have in my head physically displayed in my book case (for now) brings a sense of satisfaction and reward on a daily basis, and keeps me itching to paint more.
The painting and playing are, imo, two completely different hobbies. For those who enjoy both, it’s something that very few other past times can offer!
To summarise: "Some weirdos think that your grandma doesn't start knitting until you put the scarf on."
Watching this video as I literally lose track of time staying up late painting models. I feel seen 😂
This is exactly why my two main hobbies are miniatures and woodworking. At the end of any project I have a beautiful thing.
My fun starts with the lore. Reading wiki articles about 40k is nearly as much fun as building and playing, for me.
I'm into the lore as well. It puts the minis in to a context that makes me appreciate the 40K universe.
I get you. I enjoyed reading fluff on the 40k wiki years before I got my first models.
Same. I love the Dark Angels' lore, and have for 25 or so years. I've been building the 3rd company entirely out of primaris marines specifically because I love the story I'm telling myself. I almost never play any wargames, and haven't played a game of 40k since the late '90s.
Buying a kit really is already part of the fun. I think there's a lot of aspects of this hobby whereby you have a sense of satisfied completion. Building your list for example already feels nice. Knowing from the get go what to buy, because you spent time to think about points costs and tactics. Then the actual process of assembling is great. Looking at a fully assembled figure is kind of neat, especially when you've done some modifications. Spray priming your models so they don't look like dark grey plastic anymore can feel very nice. Same with coming up with the ideas of basing them or painting them. Then painting up your first figure of the army or team. Then finishing your last figure of a squad. Then finally finishing your army. All of those are neat completions that we should value as progress.
I would actually argue there are 3 hobbies, the games, the models, and the terrain. Building terrain is a completely different skillset from models, and takes a different mood for me personally. Of course, most people can skip it if they have a store or club that has terrain already.
I agree completely and just posted that before I read your comment. Spot on!
Terrain is no joke. It takes a ton of work in some games that heavily rely on it to make the game interesting.
This week's video brought to you by Uncle Aristotle, the Tabletop Philosopher. BTW I agree 100% it's tactile, and each stage has it's own satisfaction.
Another excellent topic Atom! I have tried for years to explain exactly the sense of completion one gets from the building and painting aspect of this hobby. I have also used the video game comparison. IE: You spend hundreds of hours on a video game, with nothing tangible to show for it , but with the same hundreds of hours put into this hobby can leave you with quite the collection of models that you can be genuinely proud of.
I love wasting time on video games, but even when I play, I often find my mind wandering back to what is on the hobby desk.
About ten years ago I saw an article in a local paper about a hobbyist's lifetime collection of 54mm historical toy soldiers that needed a good home, after he had passed away. His widow was worried she would never find someone to take on his collection of over 70,000 painted miniatures, plus another 40,000 waiting for completion, along with scenery, etc., While I felt terrible at the news of this individual's passing and his widow's difficulty with the enormous collection, the figure 70,000 stuck in my head along with the thought" 70,000? Could I end up with that many painted models? Let's see!"
Suffice to say, I have my mission. Now it's time to get back to painting and modelling. These things ain't painting themselves!
Thanks Atom, this might be a great topic for " The Every Other Sunday Show"
Just a generell thank you for all the amazing videos that now acompany me after my restart in the hobby 3 years ago! Greetings from Germany and stay healthy!
One the one hand, I sometimes feel like the painting part of the hobby can be a real chore. On the other hand, nothing feels more satisfying than to see a fully painted army of little plastic men adorn my table, gaming or otherwise.
Definitely got the right idea. I'm busy painting the Death Guard Heroes 3 box, and seeing them slowly get painted after spending time building and adding layers really gives you a great sense of completion. It's also why I keep collecting new models, to chase the high of completing a model that I am proud of.
I do both playing video games and table top wargaming, and I have to say that, for me personally, completing models gets me the same feeling of accomplishment as finishing a game, beating a particular boss or alike. In regards to both hobbies, I enjoy the path as much as the "destination", and both give me the feeling of having done something rewarding and enjoyable. Take care guys, stay safe and keep gaming!
Good points Adam, I always enjoyed the process of building and playing. But painting I had to learn to enjoy instead of treating it as a chore. Takes me much longer to get things finished, but I enjoy that time rather than just wishing it was over
Two hobbies each enjoyable in their own right but also where combined the enjoyment is greater than the sum of its parts. Playing a game with all painted mini’s is just the best feeling, win or lose!
I never showed off in magic the gathering But I feel so much pride showing my models to people. I do it whenever I can, it makes me smile and people are often impressed and curious about the hobby. I’m sure many people can say they got into the hobby by a friend showing off their freshly painted minis.
I got back into tabletop wargaming during the pandemic after 15 years, and I noticed this immediately. As soon as I start clipping sprues, I'm zen. I see all these tips and tricks videos on how to go faster and think...I don't need to go faster. When I enjoy every minute of what I'm doing, even the parts where I have to fix a mistake I made, I may be interested in tips and tricks to make my end result better, but not necessarily faster. I haven't even had the chance to play yet, because of the pandemic, but I think that has forced me to focus on the first part (building and painting) which I glossed over a bit as a teen, and which now I really appreciate. I think the big advantage that these miniatures have as a hobby is that it's a great balance between a predetermined path and personal creative choice, with a fair amount of wiggle room. This allows you to choose the amount of challenge that your skills can handle at any point, ramping up difficulty naturally, while giving you a fairly high level of quality even as a beginner. One's first completed miniature is almost certainly going to look better than one's first sculpture from clay, and there's never the catch of staring at a blank slate and not knowing where to start.
Great this really helped me. I beat myself up about all the stuff I buy, build and paint, and never quite finish the collection and rarely play with it all. But your right, I have fun from the moment I open the pack of figures or open the model box. If I start there I can see I have had so much enjoyment from my hobby even though I don’t ‘complete’ a whole lot. Really thanks for the insight 👍😊
I like your videos. I've been watching your channel for about 6 or 7 years now. I attempted to get into the the hobby a few years back but for various reasons didn't stick with it. But what I do like about your videos, is that a lot of what you say can be applied to other areas of life or creative outlets. It's a great feeling being able to escape into something. I believe as a culture Americans feel obligated to "produce". Even in hobbies we are expected to have something to show in the end. It could be project cars, baked goods etc. I think video games gets viewed negatively because of the fact that its not "producing' anything. People play them solely for the enjoyment of doing it. Just my thoughts on all this.
I think it's three hobbies: model building/painting, the actual game, terrain and scenery for the table. Creating my scenary for my table has really started to take a lot of time.
I love getting models I've never had before. I recently got some bullgryns for my Imperial Guard army recently, and it was so much fun to figure it out and make my plan. Also, kitbashing infantry characters might be one of the best things to do.
Was thinking about this, all of this week. Great vid.
I started building/painting about 4 years ago, since then I hardly touch video games and opt instead for painting/building, and I never quite understood why. You hit the nail on the head with this, It's much more fulfilling.
Definitely agree, I felt this the last couple of months as I transitioned from video games to tabletop wargaming. It’s really enjoying seeing the difference 15 years has made since I had started and taken a break and restarted where as you load an old game and it’s like well what was I doing and then get off it within 5-10 minutes.
Couldn't agree more. I've often referred to it as a 'sense of achievement' but a 'sense of (partial) completion' makes more sense. I'd say it's behind my preferences in games and hobbies.
Going from (1) Least --> (4) Most enjoyable:
(1) Multiplayer FPS games with no progress
(2) Physical board games with no progress
(3) MMO-type games with progress built in
(4) Physical hobbies with progress built in
It means it's no longer 'mindless fun', it's fun but also a step to a (permanent) result. So much more satisfying.
Amen! You just spoke right from my heart. Love your talks as you look at it always from the emotional side and not just technical tutorials.
Sorry for the long post ahead but you just inspired my writing and be gentle on the mistakes in english :) I just started the hobby like 4 months ago, and for me it is even the searching and deciding for an army/nation when the fun starts. I do Bolt Action now as I'm crazy about WW2 (especialy the video games such as Post Scriptum atm) Believe it or not but the marriage of my best friend got me going. I did a Harry Potter and Star Wars mash up diorama as a wedding gift (at least 100 hours of work) and I loved the way the whole project worked out from one small idea of doing a little plate to "let's build also a river right through it instead of just a flat grasland and ohh don't forget the scratch build wooden bridge over it. There must be also a rooten tree falling down in the water and so on..."
After the completion (hell I was more than sad to give it away) I tried some world war 2 models as I did as an teenager more than 18 years ago. I thought just give it a go at 1/72. (Well way to small for my taste now) A friend on mine showed me just some days before his 40k Tyranid army, which is not my univers at all. Yeah maybe I could arrange me with the astra militarum (obviously). :P So I change my plan from building some dioramas for just display purpose to creat my own battlefield and armies to "life" the battle as a whole.
I played 1 and a half games since I finished the starter box, and the first was even a solo game. I crafted some terrain, got some tanks for the starter armies and even ordered a third army which is nearly finished (just missing the bases).
I played the game maybe 4 hours by now but I studied the rulebook, glued my own men, added paint and life to them, looked up painting and terrain guides, compared retailers, builded terrain, searched for army lists, did shopping lists for the hardware store, conviced my wife that I need that thingy as I can't go on without it in this hobby and most importent I have the time of my life by creating something out of my mind and on to the table. In my head I'm already building up my 5th army(some warned me it's going to be addictiv. xD)
To get to the point: This hobby is just awesome and who cares how much revenue the hobby makes it's the people that give it the meaning. And the community is the best thing: all supporting and encouraging each other and no owning, flaming and insulting like in some of the video games.
Sry again for the lenght of that comment :) again love what you're doing here!
The completed build and painted model is why I currently hobby. I have never played a game but have built and painted well over 100+ minitures.
I'm lucky that I have quite a, few hobbies, the downside is that sometimes with the modelling and painting it's easy to put it off because gaming is easier in the sense you can just turn on the console and go.
I also train martial arts and had been struggling to get back into painting as I was never great at painting to start with and after time away I don't want to almost ruin models by practicing on them.
There's a great video on here that talks about buying individual models for D and D and similar to practice on which is perfect and gets you back into it.
I used to rush to get to game with stuff but am enjoying taking my time and making mistakes them redoing stuff to get each model to a level I'm happy with.
The buzz for me when playing the game, is that I'm playing with 'my' models. They aren't just something I've bought, they are something that I've invested time into. They look like they do because of the work I put in and they reflect me due to the design/colour choices I've made along the way. As much as I enjoy playing the game, I'd have no interest in it if it was just a case of buying ready made models. I think that there's a great time economy to the building and painting as well, I can have a netflix series or an audio book on in the background and consume media while also being productive.
I agree. And sometimes you need to learn how to make your photos better, because you want to share all the joy in your hobby with others. Sometimes you need to learn how to edit vídeos because of the hobby, or learn to make dioramas and all those skills to make them realistic.
Our hobby have taken me to more places and knowledge than any other. I rarely play vídeo games right now. Assembling and painting models have been a great joy ,and all the stuff learned and acomplished on this road as well.
This is another great video Atom. There is almost a zen aspect to this hobby for me. I think the physicality of it is also better than playing video games, or the aspect of “getting your hands dirty”. After you finish your models you have a physical representation of your work. You don’t get that playing video games. Obviously the revenue for the video games industry is much greater than tabletop but I think the growth tabletop over the last 5 years has been tremendous. Thanks again!
This video makes a ton of sense! There are absolutely two hobbies in all of the table tops. First, there is an element of artistic expression which covers not just gluing and painting miniatures, but also things like assembling a new deck of Magic cards and designing a new dungeon. Second, there’s the obvious play. Let’s roll dice or get into a counterspell war. I’m really thinking about Uncle Atom’s idea, and I love being a dungeon master much more than a player. It’s my artistic expression. When it comes to painting miniatures… not so much interested. I just bought a used Tyranid army. I love playing, but am so glad I didn’t paint them. I’m not good with drawing and painting though. My point is that Uncle Atom is absolutely right and there are two parts to the hobby, but we don’t always enjoy the same part from tabletop to tabletop.
Yup. Actually making progress on a model, building, converting, painting, basing, is most of the fun for me. We have a small start-up wargaming club at school, which I run with two other teachers, but which doesn't even meet at the moment due to COVID. It's fun, but for me, it's the first part that matters most. Maybe if I lived closer (by European standards) to the nearest decent game shop here in southern Spain, it might be different. Also, I come from a scale modelling background anyway.
I agree with the point you're making. As an aside, I'm reminded of an article I read by Rick Priestley: he suggested that the elaborate paint jobs encouraged by manufacturer catalogue and display models has created a daunting standard.
I remember being inspired by block painted, gloss finished Spencer Smith plastics in Donald Featherstone.
The relevance here, is that starting simple allows that sense of completion within the stamina of the beginner.
Brilliant point about that feeling of wasting time and physical outcome btw.
I enjoy all aspects of the hobby... Tabletop wargaming is something I only discovered when I turned 35. But these last 5 years I've really enjoyed reading, building, painting, and playing Age of Sigmar and Frostgrave. I've dabbled in Warmachine, D&D, Zombicide and other games... Something I never did growing up.
To me, the Hobby is pretty much just painting and crafting things. I value aesthetics a lot, because to me a beautiful army is eternal, whereas an effective army can be squashed with a simple rules change. So for me the joy already starts with opening some box of models and be excited about the various parts and how I can mess with them.
Nobody's squashing your 1809 French line infantry, your Knights Templar, your Roman Legionaries, your Panzergrenadiers or your Vikings with rule changes man! You finish a historical army and aside from maybe basing conventions you have it forever
I like what you said about the difference in tabletop wargaming and computer games... "I bought the thing, why cant I play the thing?".
I played 40k when I was a teenager. Been wanting to dip my toe back in for years but could never find the 'right' product to do that with. I just bought myself 'Warhammer: Underworlds - Dire Chasm', a starter kit of paints, a set of washes, and primer from vallejo for xmas. The main selling point for me was that buying the box was buying a single complete board game with different colored models for the 2 warbands.
When it arrives, me and my housemate will be playing it, and then as an almost side-hobby to that, I can paint the beautiful miniatures.
I'm new to wargaming. I love your channel. Thanks for what you do!
The modelling and painting IS the "playing" yesssss
Going on Steam and seeing my 2,000 hours in Dota 2 or my 2,500 hours in Europa Universalis has rarely, if ever, made me feel good. But if I were to see that number next to "time spent painting and playing Warhammer" or something similar, I really don't think I'd have the same reaction. There's a *deep* sense of accomplishment that's present in wargaming and modeling that just isn't there in video games, no matter how much time I dedicate to them. While of course playing a match with friends or completing a level is undoubtedly fun, holding that three-dimensional model and being able to say "I made this!!" is such a unique feeling I don't think you get from many other hobbies. Great video!
You nailed it, imo. Especially with the 2-hobbies-in-1 point of view. And to be honest, I get a whole lot more satisfaction out of the unbox, build and paint hobby as I do from the gaming hobby.
@Tabletop Minions: As a 43 year old man with Anxiety Depressive Disorder that has been a video gamer since age 8, ive actually considered this point a lot, especially recently. I looked at the games i was playing (namely World of warcraft) and realised a lot of my hobbies had built in fail states. As in the just kept going and going, and you would never be finished That at the end of the day when the developers decide to finally pull the plug on the servers all my achievements and time spent would have accounted for nothing really, except for the enjoyment of the "now".
There are several psychologists that would suggest we as humans can uniquely shape our realities by how we focus on things and our self talk. If we kept telling ourselves we hate our job, our job becomes harder and harder to deal with ( as an example). So this reflects what you were saying in you video, how we think about our hobby affects its interpretation by others as well.
There are other studies into a phenomena that I call negative relatability where we interact with other people in negative ways, as it easier for others to understand negativity. A lot of hobbists talk about their hobby in slightly negative ways so they arent seen as insane fan boys, a socially perceived negative way of being, as hobbies arent seen in the same light as say sports, as in not part of "normal" fandoms.
I think people seeing the hobby as not starting until they have an army on the table comes from the ingrained belief of a hard days work, at the end of it the project is finished, typically related to factory work. "I produced X amount of Y product today." But then this typical attitude falls apart when applied to say house building, though in comparison there used to be far less house builders then factory laborers back during the industrial revolution. So the majority dictates the social way of thinking.
The we get into the entertainment value of the compared products, video games vz war gaming. Hands down video gaming wins, as it is "obviously" entertaining. With all its bright lights and flashy sounds it captures the mind in a simpler method, where wargames are a thinking form of entertainment. So those easily distracted by pretty things are more easily entertained by the simpler approach. But this is a good thing in itself as "mindless" fun is a powerful way to relax.
wargaming for me gives me different layers of completion, to refer to your term from the video. First buying the product, next assembling, then painting one guy, then a whole unit, the whole army, and finally playing a game. Completetion has become a big thing in my life as I fancy myself as a bit of a writer as well, but for 30 years was stuck behind the wall of thinking every piece had to be an epic novel, and would start but then get caught up in life, paying bills etc and never be able to commit to the finish. But then i read some of HP Lovecrafts shorter work and came to understand a single "scene" can be a story in itself. and was able to produce 2 complete works in a few hours each. which got me thinking about giving myself ways to "win" in life as a way to combat my before mentioned Disorder. Sometimes you have set your mind a certain way and give yourself a "win" every once and a while.
I'm feeling this video a few friends of mine just are rushing to make their models but now that I have enough necrons to play I'm loving slowly painting up my models. Sisters and Necrons tossing around some tesseract glow is fun. Just did a stained glass window on an Immolator and it took a while but it felt good ya know?
Table top war gaming or other games with miniatures are super rewarding as you put a lot of fun and time in it and literally have made something for your hobby. As opposed to video games, but also just regular board games, in which you don't actually make something.
I'm not sure about other games but I see WH40K as three hobbies. 1. Lore (just reading the books and stories) 2. Mini's (people that just like scale mini's, painting, etc. 3. Actually playing the game
I think, as others have said, these are two complementary hobbies. On one hand, I started painting six months ago and still haven't played a game (thanks COVID). However, I don't think I would have had nearly as much motivation to assemble and paint if there wasn't a potential game at the end. Assembling a 2,000 point army gives me a goal to work towards, and once I'm done, I'm looking forward to having a chance to show it off on the table. Without that goal to work towards, I would probably lose interest in the painting part.
I am an unabashed blood angel fangirl, and I have never played a game, but I have a giant collection of primaris blood angels that constantly scream for the blood of heretics and friendship, and as their Empress I have to oblige them. Was never into the tabletop, but seeing them all decorate my home work station is super cool. Planning a diorama at some point, but for now, painting is keeping me going in quarantine.
Keep on painting! 😀 🎨 🖌️
This video actually spoke to me musically, as throughout the year I've had several new files, but not a single finished song. I think I'll finally get back on that before the year ends, even if just one gets finished. Thanks, Atom!
Modelling scratches the same itch that vidya does, for me at least. The difference is if I stay up till 3AM working on a model I get something out of it, and I'm building skills and I feel kind of proud of myself. If I stay up till 3AM gaming I get nothing out of it except a vague self-loathing and a headache.
Yeah, tbh for me I haven't played at all with people but I just love building and painting them so much.
I am enjoying painting minis (playing as well, but you know why I can't enjoy doing that now) as well as playing video games (console and PC). I was playing a lot of multiplayer PvP games. MOBAs and some shooters. I've realized that I sometimes feel enjoyment, but most of the time it was urge to win, to show that I can be better than opponents. I was a vicious cycle. I couldn't get sense of completion. Now I'm focused into single player games. Much better for my sanity. I can actually complete the game.
Miniature painting me get through low in my life. I started it before that, but it was something that stayed with me. I enjoy almost every step of that hobby. What I don't like is shaving off mold lines.
I've tried getting into MtG, but "eternal" formats were too expensive and so was standard with those constant rotations. Deckbuilding was fun, but somehow I felt the whole meta netlisting a bit more than in wargaming. In wargaming even if I lose I have fun. Smashing Maw-Crusha into an enemy unit, only for it to fail to do any real dmg is really hilarious. There was also not enough "hobbying" in card games. Deckbuilding is what's tiring, at least for me, in Warhammer: Underworlds. Models are super cool, picked few of warbands. I think that Warcry would fit me better. I still didn't have a chance to play it, but maybe in the future. Especially since they introduced non-chaos warband. Can't wait to see what else they will bring. I've just finished painting Mindstealer Sphiranx (OK, last thing to do is to paint rim of the base black, but that's the easies part.)! It's not a competition piece, I could push it more, I'm happy how it looks, but I'm not satisfied, which in this case is good, I think. That gives me thirst for painting more!
Have fun enjoying hobbies(or hobbits, if you want), there is limited time in life!
Great video as always! My fun even starts before unboxing. Once I see the (new) models/boxes online or in the shop my brain starts processing 😉 aka the fun started there and then. I like the game(s) as well but the crafting part is more rewarding both in achievement but also as a relax moments, the “my time-my space” effect that we all sooo need. Things I get less or not at all from video games (which I also play).
I have been in this hobby for the last 4 years and I have never played a full game. I have played one almost game of warcry but I do this hobby for the building and painting. I like the minitures and getting a group of dudes that look awesome. I am sure once my full army is done I will start playing but for now I am happy just with the part of the hobby that I am apart of.
It all started when I offered to paint a model for a friend and that ended up costing me about $500 in materials and models over the years, and have loved every minute of it.
I’ve come to the conclusion that tabletop hobbying is an umbrella term that can be branched out into a multiple of sub genres/hobbies in which people can deep dive into.
Some people enjoy constructing/kitbashing models while others enjoy solely painting miniatures never playing the tabletop game they were intended for.
Then there are the micro categories such as terrain building or 3d printing specifically for use in the tabletop hobby. In addition to these above we have people that enjoy creating game systems and those aspect of “the hobby”.
There are so many facets that hold the potential to be complete hobbies into themselves.
Definitely agree the fun in the hobby doesn't start at the tabletop. Reading the books and lore, cutting and building, painting, tabletop games, discussion and theorycrafting with others are all different facets that satisfy both the introvert and extrovert in me. It's very much a slow burn journey hobby
I appreciate the conversation Uncle Adam. I'm a board gamer, haven't been a wargamer since the mid nineties. I believe the sum of the barriers to quick entry is the real cause of the lack of popularity. The painting of minis alone can be a large barrier to people. I am an above average painter and I enjoy it, but I am not a born artist and have definitely hit my "plateau" do to the lack of artistic theory and training. Besides the painting, you need to wrangle a group of people, have the space, have several hours at a crack to play, not to mention the set up and tear down. Many other hobbies are so much quicker and easier to pursue.
Model railroading or RC cars/planes is very similar. There is building a kit, painting, etc., and then there is actually running it.
The one that makes me laugh are people who spent 2k on parts and hours building a gaming PC to sit down on Warhammer II and talk about how they don't have the money or time for the actual wargame.
I think this is a fair assessment of the hobby, I feel that way sometimes, I just have to stop a minute and play a few games, then I can go back to building and painting. I’ve played lots of DOW, and always wanted the models but collecting at the time just wasn’t feasible. Since March I’ve dove in full board. I even have a nice little pile of shame. I’ve also put together and painted close to 100 figures of SM and Death Guard. I’m looking forward to playing at the local shop when we get over the hump with this pandemic. Yes I would almost pay someone to finish my terrain but that’s me being lazy, I’ll eventually get to it until then “battlefield in a box”. Happy hobbies to all.
Your points are interesting and made me look at my other main hobbies which are fishing and hunting. What I see in all three is full emersion into the hobbies. I think the "prep work" is appealing in all three hobbies.
I started collecting, building and painting 40k a year ago. I started actually playing the game a few months ago. The only part I enjoy about playing the game more than the building/painting models is getting to socialize with people, show off my models and check out their models. The game itself is just an excuse to do that for me.
The game should always be secondary to the social event.
When comparing tabletop and video-gaming and their relative appeal, you also need to consider the role of imagination. With exceptions, video-games tend to require less suspension of disbelief than table-top. The reason I say this is that video-games tend to provide/produce a pre-complete environment for play (albeit a virtual one). By extension, there is less requirement to *actively* engage one's imagination. By contrast, as you rightly point out, tabletop gaming requires significant time investment; crafting, building, list building, setting up etc. before the play environment is ready. This being the case, there is a greater requirement placed upon the player to engage their imagination in building that world. Using your brain/imagination can feel very much like *work*. Some folks (understandably) don't like to work at their hobby, they prefer the plug and play joy that comes from a video-game. Don't get me wrong, it's not a dichotomy, I love both video games and tabletop games. However, I always feel I'm more actively engaging my imagination through the tabletop medium.
I'm quite new to the hobby and the only thing I do is build models and paint them. Haven't played a single game so far. The enjoyment from building a model, painting it, and then looking at the completed product is amazing.
This hobby is really 4 tightly connected hobbies!
* Assembly/Conversion is my favorite portion.
* Painting
* Playing for Narrative / Writing Lore
* Competitive play
Just another thought - Being able to pass your collection of models or games on to your kids, a nephew or a niece is also a definite goal. :)
New to the hobby and I really enjoy these talks even if I'm a little late to the discussion. Thanks
I wholeheartedly agree. Personally I enjoy all aspects of the hobby, from the collecting, through assembling, thinking about the colour schemes, painting techniques, getting past the ugly stage, admiring the finished models and not least, showing off the new models in a game with my likeminded friends! There are multiple avenues of satisfaction to be had in this hobby and I praise myself lucky to enjoy all of them in equal measure.
Nice concept. I generally agree that there is a problem in the conception of the hobby itself...but not as much as it's difficult to get into compared to other 'quicker' hobbies. But the stigma that comes along with it namely it's a "Nerd/Geek Spaceman model game"....I have been in love with the idea of playing 40k for years...I bought all the models (tyranids, necrons, chaos), I painted (which I agree on the completionism entirely on...love the feeling of a finished model in hand), I painted, I got the hacksaw out and cut arms apart and glued them together in different ways for new unique positons, blah blah....but once I had an army done. I had no-one to play with....Why? Well my friends would look at these things and think 'What a weirdo nerd who painted dozens of tiny men...to play a game with a million sided dice where you need measuring tapes and a 5 pound book full of rules to play and HOURS to finish a single game' And be immediately turned off on the concept...it isn't much different than video games infact.
All of us who are old enough to grow up with video games in the 80s and 90s know that feeling of being the nerd kid who doesn't do the kickball sport thing that was demanded of us in school and made fun of for playing video games...but then the playstation and the xbox and the steams,came around and made video games more appealing to the general masses (not to mention dropping the entry level). Gone are the days that having a game computer or a console infront of your tv and playing for hours a thing only 'nerds' did, they're acceptable within the public eye and the common person. Table top gaming has become more acceptable (and I would argue that's because the computer games GW invests helped them a lot.) Even the most 'socialnormal' (whatever that should mean) person I know has heard of 40k before I mentioned it to them...they still look at it as this ultra complex, difficult and obsessive 'weirdo' game with dozens of hand painted spacemen and monsters with tie in crazy sci-fi novellas that takes way too damn long to play...Even when offering to buy and prepare the models for others just to play the game with, well then it's just too 'insert excuse' .
One could argue, I should go to the local shop and find like minded players....but my local shop is full of elitist assholes that drain the life out of me whenever I go there (I did watch your video about this very subject...unfortunately you suggestions couldn't help)...either way. I believe the steps that GW has been taking to drastically reduce complexity in the game and play times has been a good step forward to lower the barrier of entry. They are still going to have an uphill battle convincing people to spend potentially /hundreds/ of moneys to get started...however
Miniature wargaming is multi faceted. There’s collecting, painting & modeling, scenario design, tabletop battle games, and campaign games. For some folks, like me, game design is a huge part of it. In my experience, some people just want to play games, and have zero interest in painting. They buy painted figures at shows or eBay, and play games with them. Nothing wrong with that. Others just enjoy the crafting/painting part and rarely play games or write scenarios. And then there are people who enjoy multiple or even all aspects of wargaming. The DEPTH of this hobby is what makes it great, but it’s also what narrows it’s appeal (it’s an investment of time, money, and honing varied skills) because its not something that you can just CASUALLY pick up.
The idea that it's really two hobbies holds merit. I have a friend who didn't understand tabletop wargaming. She was able to get behind modeling and a strategic Wargame individually, but she couldn't understand how they fit together. I explained it like this: when I was a kid, I built scale models with my dad. I'd finish this really great tank, and want to play with it. But then I'm told "No no, that goes on the shelf to be admired." This hobby allows that little kid to play with his model tank. My friend understood a bit better, but still couldn't quite put it together. It's definitely two hobbies in one.
The issue with wargaming is that's 3 hobbies in a trench coat posing as a single hobby. Painting minis, building armies (paper and physical) and playing the game. I met few people that enjoyed all 3. Personally, I could not care less about army building; praise the sun for all those battle reports with unit lists.
I like that you bring up the idea of it being 2 hobbies in 1. I first got into warhammer more from the building and painting side after being a long time scale modeler and getting bored with it... only so many things you can do with car and aircraft kits. I generally am either painting as an escape or actively trying to improve my skills when I find a model I really like. The gameplay side of warhammer is like a fun reward for my hours of investment into the painting but just comes as second priority.
My other biggest hobby is music and I have similar feelings towards that. It is always more about a perspnal creative outlet and striving to be better on my instrument than performing.
I'm actually thinking about this topic for couple of weeks now. I make my living making video games, so I play A LOT, but last few months I got back to painting miniatures and from that moment I don't enjoy video games as much as before. There is in back of my head "you could be now painting instead of playing". First I was surprised by it and I starterted to reflect it. I think the major difference is in satisfaction. Painting miniatures can be immensely satisfying, especially when you see how you get better and better. Video games rarely provide this feeling of gratification. This is for me as a game designer fascinating and I will continue to study it.
That was a fair point at the beginning Uncle Atom, and I do believe our past-time is really like three or four different hobbies in one. Gaming, painting and modelling, at least. I really do enjoy that there's so many aspects to it and when they all come together it's amazing to witness and experience. However, I also understand how that can be a grind and a detriment for folks that are looking to a singular aspect.
I think you are dead on.
Sometimes the "fun" of this hobby is not in the gaming but in the building part. Finding the miniature you want, and then working out the weapons load-out or figuring the squad compation can be just as rewarding. The fun of working out the background story for your unit, or their history can fill your time in a Pleasant eay.
All of this. I've been a tabletop RPG player for over 25 years, and the story building aspect of wargamming is one of my favorite parts. I played 40k and Fantasy in the late '90s, but got out of the hobby shortly after high school. I got back into it a few years ago because several friends wanted to start playing Kill Team. I've been building the Dark Angels' 3rd company since then, as well as elements of the Deathwing, Ravenwing, 10th and reserve companies, and crafting a story behind all of it as I progress. I've played maybe 6-10 games of KT since I got back into the hobby, and none of 40k. I've only felt mild "regret" over the time and money invested in miniatures for games I don't regularly play a couple of times. It took a while, but I finally realized that the collecting, crafting, and displaying are the things that motivate me, not playing the games.
As mediocre as my painting is there is a certain satisfaction that's hard to replicate.
I find assembling and cleaning mould lines and undercoating quite therapeutic and then painting them after hours of time inveatment when it's done looking at it and saying I did that is great and and this is coming from someone who loves video games but the buzz is different.
I've mates who love painting but don't game and vice versa and some enjoy the whole process.
I enjoy painting despite being meh at it and I also love gaming, my biggest issue when I started was trying not to rush the painting to get to the point where I can use the models painted in a game.
I had this feeling playing Morrowind back when. I was pulling off such cool things and beat some bosses and was having a blast. Then when I tried to naively talk to someone else about it, it was like trying to explain why I felt good about a thing I did and they'd probably never do. The miniatures hobby I can show someone a model, and get compliments and immediately start teaching them whats what and how to play or how to paint or make scenery or terrain. To further accentuate the point, my wife only reluctantly plays Animal Crossing among my dozens of games and the thousands available to her online. Yet, last weekend we sat down in a new gaming store that happened to be having a miniature painting class and boom there she was painting a cute little Shoota Boy.
you know after seeing this video I motivated my self to see it the fun way from start to finish I cant believe that in one day did the double the amount and with better results than before thanks a lot.
A buddy and I decided to play Age of Sigmar. We got the Soul Wars box. We spent a whole year building and painting the armies before we even got to play AoS. We painted together once a week for few hours. We both agreed that the year we spent was a bunch of fun and considered that part of the hobby. It is still a good time 😊
This is why fell in love with this hobby! You can enjoy it on so many levels! It's amazing! Take 40K. I have fun building the models, then I have fun painting them. Once I'm done with building and painting I can have lots of fun playing the game. Once I'm done playing I can read books from this vast Universe.
I have discovered this hobby when I was 22 and I was just speachless... I had the feeling I found the best hobby out there, the one I've been looking for so long. It is perfect in every way for me!
I think you nailed the subject. I'm a gamer as well and if I play too often, I tell myself "damn, i'm doing nothing in my life. Gaming is a void, at the end there is nothing left of the experience". That's why I only play games with good stories now. I've been playing death stranding this summer, completed the game in a 3 weeks marathon. That was cool. But building and painting minis get me a sense of completion and proudness nothing else can give me. It's just personnal satisfaction, and I love it. Like... my wife doesn't even get why I spend hours doing this for 'nothing'. She'll understand the day she will actually pick a brush and paint her first mini.
I think you really nailed it. I used to play videogames from time to time and it brought me great enjoyment in the sense that I was consuming something I found cool. Since I started this hobby about two years ago, videogames are kind of dead for me. I tried to play again and I never get the feeling of achievement, of something tangible, that I get with AoS for example. That and the learning curve and skill development is so vast, it really makes it addicting. There's something in this hobby that I can't find anywhere else, really. I'm guessing it's because you actually create. There's two types of people in the world, I feel. The creators and consumers. If you're a creator, you're definitely gonna get addicted to this hobby.
For me, the hobby is 90% building, painting and 10% playing. And that’s okay.
I agree with the notion that it's possibly 2 hobbies. I picked up warhammer again during lock down over here in the UK and I say warhammer generally because I had no intention in having a specific army to play with. I was entirely wanting to build, convert and paint stuff as it would get me away from a screen and allow me to do something I used to enjoy before life got in the way. Now I just order models that I like the look of and want to enjoy painting. I've no doubt when this pandemic is over I will enjoy playing the game but that was not even in my mind when I picked up my first kit. Love the videos. Talk about some great topics!
I agree with you. I enjoy building them. Playing with them is just a plus.
I feel like cost should of been brought up, a huge part is the cost per hobby. Most households have a console or pc somewhere compared to the paints and tools you will use. I played videogames heavy for 15 years but never felt completed. I realized how much money i sunk and for what? A game no one plays anymore ome after another. what stopped me from figures was upfront cost, getting the brushs, paints, glues, tools, terrian stuff. So i slowly put funds away over 3 years i was able to pick everything i need. And now that i have it all i can really enjoy the hobby. I could buy a console every 5-10 years at 500$ or put that into figure painting. Couple hundred dollars later (around the same i would of into a new console and games) ingame purchases) i feel more completed with the figure hobby then video gamez. Id blow 100 a month on ingame purchases and switched the same 100 a month into paints and figures and ive never been happier. Thats why feel cost is a inportant topic do i stick to some i know and love or branch out and i feel alot. Of poeple are afraid to branch out.
Amen. Touching a lot of subjects, nice. I believe the pace of other larger hobby industries affect our perception and the perception of producers within this hobby. Kind of taking things further away from the core of things. We expect and demand dozens of new video game releases yearly - this spills over into tabletop gaming (“shaking fists - where’s that so and so mini. How come my army didn’t get an upgrade”). But with the multitude of releases, we get worse at completion, because there just isn’t that much time... instead getting more of a kick from buying. Downward spiral... and so on. Just some random thoughts, in context of your subject. Thanks for this video 🙏
I have been a tabletop Warhammer for 8 years but have only ever played like 2 demo games. I don’t live near anyone. I like painting and creating army’s but the social aspect of wargaming is intimidating and also I still haven’t decided on a game after all this time.