People need to start setting their expectations right. Really don't know their issue with last episode, I was just glad they didn't talk about how G2 didn't deserve the win cause Falcons played bad.
This podcast just reminds me that I really want to make individual player jersey/decals a thing. Would really incentivise players creating content and more availability for orgs to gain income.
The problem with orgs withholding their participation on the basis of appearance fees is that virtually every non-RLCS rocket league tourney operates at a loss or barely breaks even. There is only so much a first-time event can do to drive viewership and it costs wild amounts of money to run it well. Casters, admins, production, prize pool, advertising (if you do want to increase your viewership, even marginally) // it takes everyone to build the scene and allow these tournaments to be consistently profitable and allow everyone, including orgs, to then have a piece of the cut. If anything the orgs should be asking for a perfentage of the profits (after expenses.) but their participation in and of itself will drive viewership and growth and make it a more viable system. Plus having all the french teams play in a tourney where theres more pride and eyes on it than scrims is valuable in the lead up to worlds. All around the french orgs have a bad take on this. We grow together. This E-Sport is such a fragile ecosystem as it is
As a big fan of the G2 team and players, I agree with Johnny that saying Falcons choked doesn’t make G2s win any less impressive - Like J said, mental has a lot of impact on outcome and G2 and their fans should be proud that they were as prepared and mentally strong as they were in that series
Yes, I totally think Falcons underperformed but that doesn't mean G2 weren't phenomenal. Easily the best they looked all season including top 2 at Copenhagen. Beastmode was unplayable. Just hope that Falcons can overcome the mentality issues and perform at their peak in Dallas now
Thats not the way people saying falcons choked are putting it tho. They say it like g2 ONLY won cuz falcons choked, which is coping and downplaying g2 winning.
@@scrubbyrubberduckyyeah people saying this are wrong like even if the opposite team is playing bad you have to capatalize and play solidly and not make mistakes as well, it was a mix of falcons playing bad and g2 playing very well
Sounds to me like the orgs signed bad long-term contracts to get the best players at the time and want small TOs to make up for their poor contracts. Why should dumb organizations be bailed out by other folks in the community? This has been coming for a long time, players have been massively overcompensated for how much money they bring into the orgs via content or sponsorships.
It is perfectly logical. He just used too many words. Basically he's just saying the French orgs bring a lot of viewership and they want to see some of those returns. If they never put a foot down they will never get those returns.
I don't think he made it out to seem it was below the French teams, but certainly not worth their time though. It costs way too much money for the orgs for the return they get.
Does anyone actually care if the orgs aren't involved so long as the teams/players can still compete? I don't really understand where the support for orgs comes from aside from Moist/KC etc who have a popular persona at the root, besides that who actually gives a toss about some random corporation. Expecting tournament organisers to have a secret pool of money to pay orgs feels like a braindead argument, just take some of the prizepool
No orgs means less pay, less viewership for the overall esport, less exposure for the players overall. If in the rare scenario that there were no orgs at all, then you would see less of these pros competing
@@majesticmo5048 Yeah i get that and can appreciate that orgs provide some stability for players but would anyone be upset if for example GenG weren't at a tournament but Jack, Chronic and FK were still there as a team. My question is more where does support for random corporations come from, is it mostly people who follow other esports too or just people fanboying about the companies?
@sg9222 I mean it depends on the circumstances. If geng were gone, and there was no other org to pick up the remaining fk, Jack and chronic, then I'd doubt they would be in the competitive scene for much longer. Esports is finite and you want to make money, and sometimes if you are orgless, it's just flat out better to do content. Some orgs do have dedicated followers like KC or gentlemates, who will watch any esport where ever they see their brand. To answer your question, it's a little bit of both. Like I support G2 in rl, cs, siege, valorant etc, but I don't fanboy about the company itself, I just attach myself to a recognisable brand. These orgs basically make a deal to promote their players and the esport behind them, while the game they commit to supports them back. But recently RL has been sloppy at that
@@majesticmo5048 I'm talking more about community tournaments, if Gen G didn't want to take part in the occasional tournament for financial reasons then i'd still be happy to see the team playing together under a different name and i'd still see it as the same team. I can't really see this as any benefit though, they're already paying wages and could easily just take part without pumping more money into promotions etc I think for the orgs to be sustainable they need to be looking internally to make the buisiness more profitable as opposed to expecting money from tournament organisers that can only generate a modest prize pool to begin with. I do agree that epic needs to step up and provide more assistance to help the orgs succeed though, looking after orgs that can get crazy viewer numbers on events and fans buying decals etc is definately beneficial to epic Makes sense about following an entity across multiple esports though, i don't watch any others so usually have no clue who they are aside from a name in RL. I've always chosen my teams based on the players (playstyle,personality etc), orgs or region don't really bother me
people are a bit too obsessed with growth imo. We should be able to stop and be like this is fucking massive already and players really do drive that for the most part.
What will happen eventually is all of the esport will be consolidated into a few giant orgs who can afford to pay pros. Those orgs will have multiple teams and push everyone else out. Look at Falcons - they are funded by the Saudi government so they'll always be able to afford the best of the best. If we want RLCS to have a variety of orgs and parity the only solution is some sort of salary cap/franchise situation. There's just simply not enough money in the scene for each region to have a bunch of orgs paying top dollar for their players. It's a harsh reality that I feel like nobody wants to admit. Esports is a bubble that got too much dumb money invested in it and most orgs did not take the time to build a profitable model. The only orgs that will make it are the ones who are solid (like G2) or have tons of investment (like Falcons). The only other option is that epic pumps more and more money into the scene to support the mid-level orgs. But all of that wealth will just accumulate at the top anyway over time.
it's sad because fans/players/people in the scene want constant growth and it to be the biggest thing in the world but the only way that happens is what you are talking about.
French players won't get out of bed for less than $20k 😭😭😭 iykyk [edit] I just listened to the cuisine tiers episode and there's a part where Johnny literally says, "They have a lot of things that you probably don't even know are French... like crepes are French" I CAN'T
Because native english speakers form slang and the language sorta changes depending on your community. Ferra learned English formally, and therefore Is more "correct"
58:12 this just gave me an idea. What if for example, KC calls out Vitality during this off season for a wager match bo7 and hype up it up for a week. I think it will create that content buzz orgs look for plus give the teams a meaningful match to play.
What most people dont understand about large Orgs is that these esport teams are basically a charity case for them to be able to gain exposure / a fan base while being able to write off losses against their actual cash flow positive business. F1 is a perfect example of this (though events and pay is structured differently), the teams themselves almost never are "profitable". They blow HUGE sums of money into the sport just to be in the competition and maybe pick up a fan base they wouldnt have reached without. But they are by no means looking to make this a self sustaining entity. Its entire existence for the org is essentially marketing with some fun on the side (which coincidentally decreases their tax bill due to all the "business expenses" that are incurred).
yeah that's what Ferra is getting at when he says a lot of them are prepared to lose money. Whereas you have Resolve who want to be making profits and gains every year
A forced error in RL is as simple as outpositioning the other team. Let’s say the last defender is forced to choose between two defensive positions, he plays a bit of an in between, and then a ball to the top corner is able to squeak through. That is a forced error. Similar to blast in the ball to the backboard is an incredibly difficult read, your team wouldn’t say “i can’t believe you missed that”, it’s a forced error. Not mechanically but positionally, let’s say the defender spaced himself from the backboard and it’s not hit super hard. He will probably think “ah I should’ve got that one.” Even though it’s the same play very small differences in positioning determines forced vs unforced errors in our game.
I think it's more relative than that in the sense that at what point do you expect a pro level player to just make up for a small forced error in positioning? If I fail to make a play that 99% of pros would make 99% of the time, even if by your definition basically any pressure is a forced error, that surely has to go as an epic fail when we talk about who "played well" and whatnot. Imo if we get lost in a very lenient definition of forced error we're overestimating one team and downplaying the other's fuckup, it's not the most "deserved" praise. G2 forced errors, but not all; those panicky falcons clears even in those "forced" positions are not standard in pro play I feel.
100% saying a team choked takes away from the other team's success because the spot light is on the one team's failure and not at all on the team that performed well imo.
As an italian myself, i hate when people say "Italian food is overrated" when the quality of italian food is a lot higher in Italy than in America (i know Jack's english but he lives in the US). Like, some Americans actually think that Shrimp Alfredo and Chicken Parm are italian dishes.
Doing it again lmao. “102 mentions aren’t enough” =/= talking about the actual team as a topic for sub-5 minutes. And I cannot stress this enough, I am NOT a G2 fan or calling you a hater, I’m simply saying it was weird that y’all didn’t have the Major winners as an actual headline topic immediately after said Major. Like I feel that is an entirely fair critique for a esports podcast lol.
someone should make a petition that looks for pro players, coaches, and other influential figures in the rlcs scene to sign in support of the change in prizepool distribution if long-term contracts and monthly salaries are guarunteed. I would like to see the numbers alone, forget the names that do and don't sign.
It's good to see Johnny consistently having F tier food opinions. I'll never forget him trying to claim Scottish food, that involves the most disgusting dish ever invented (haggis) and also just a bunch of bland dishes with potatoes, meat and other shit, was better than American food. Lost all credibility with his opinion on food with that take, so it's good to see him staying on brand with liking anchovies on pizza and frog legs and snails. 👌🏼👍🏼
They're just strawmanning NA fans and G2 fans to a ridiculous extent. NA fans are understandingly upset that they finally win a major and everyone immediately digs into the most insane hole possible to say that actually they DIDN'T deserve to win and they aren't the best team in the world, when gentlemates and vitality did the exact same thing and commentators literally couldn't stop talking about how they're the best team ever and no one even compares. Then G2 wins and it's painfully obvious people are trying to downplay it as much as humanly possible. Like it physically hurts to watch how hard johnny is trying to downplay G2's accomplishments. Resorting to extreme circumstances and strawman arguments to make NA fans seem irrational. It's just sad, just let people be happy about their team winning. What makes it even crazier is that G2 have made literally even Grand final this entire season and they're specifically not bringing that up because that would make G2 look too good.
My guy gm8s were huge underdogs last major, literally no one was expecting them to win it, g2 is nowhere near the underdog gm8s were, beastmode, atomic and daniel, are all experienced players that have proven themselves as world class at lan since gamers8 Not sure what kinda comments you been reading (maybe get off reddit) but I have seen very few comments say G2 don't deserve it, and johnny literally said, even if flacons choked, that doesnt mean g2 deserve it any less, it just isnt as crazy as gm8s win or a prodigy (zen) winning a major on his professional debut.
@@___echo___Gm8’s played a G2 that choked too. Most people had G2 in the Copenhagen final after they took down EU twice, it felt inevitable that G2 would take it, just as it felt inevitable that falcons would take London. But G2 could not produce their same level in the GF and looked generally nervous as Falcons did.
@nlgilly maybe take a breath and go outside. All of Chalked Cast has said G2 is the best team in the world right now. Not only that, but they barely spoke about GM8s winning the previous major (afterwards)
Would players not be able to play in tournaments themselves if the orgs chose not to be represented? I agree orgs should have an incentive to play in small tournaments, but I don't think players should be restricted.
Orgs not playing doesn't make sense. Theyre still playing for salaries of players SMM coaches. Asking for appearance fees from small tournament organizers makes no sense. The TO won't grow if there's no big teams, it makes more sense to ask bigger TOs for AF like EWC or Epic. Once TOs get bigger it makes sense but playing in small trusted tournaments helps the community and org reputation
The whole forced vs. unforced errors debate is irrelevant, and I'm glad they kind of resolved to that. When Vitality beat BDS at Worlds, no one complained that BDS choked or didn't show up. Vitality deserved the win. At the previous Worlds, no one complained about how G2 choked against BDS because BDS deserved the win. This major, G2 deserved the win. Weird that people are trying to cope over Falcons losing. Falcons looked great up until that series, and they should be proud of that. Can't wait to see them at Worlds this year.
If it was single game elimination I could get the arguments of their better their worse. But best of 7 means you get atleast 4 chances to prove you're the best team. G2 beat falcons 4 times on the day they were the best team
The peak viewership of this esport, which is basically nothing compared to the tier 1 esports of the world, is only because of the giant French orgs. This esport is essentially washed without them. No shot in hell the Shift tournament gets any more than 30k viewers. Epic needs to change the way they’re handling everything or this game will be dead.
Has it been discussed in any of these episodes, how NA teams have been booed by fans so much in the past few years for this game? It's pretty strange and interesting to me and I'm surprised to see so little discussion of it. I'm not even American but would be nice to hear a USA USA USA chant when NA teams are popping off at lans, without it being boo'd and shut down. Though I must say, there's a significant degree of entertainment value in seeing NA fans or NA teams be booed just for them to win afterwards, so I suppose I'd miss it if the ones doing it stopped.
@@vrases9910 I'm pretty sure it was at the last world championship that was in the US, a USA chant started up and there was massive booing through the crowd which shut it down pretty quickly. Also isn't it strange to just expect a team will get booed if they're playing in a different country? All the events we've had in the U.S and I don't recall Middle Eastern teams, South American Teams, Asian teams, Australian teams, African teams or European teams getting booed at any of them, unless there's an occurence I can't recall. Just seems to me American players, talent, and fans deal with a disproportionate amount of hatred from other fans just for being American.
Yeah,I had to come over from Spotify to comment. What Ferra says doesn't make sense. The orgs exist literally to have players participate in the esport. If they are declining to participate unless they get paid that really does not make sense. Like if the players didn't want to play I'd get it but I doubt that honestly. they got in the scene cause they love to compete not for brand deals or anything. They literally could have accepted let the players just play to no cost for the org. Them declining strictly hurts any third party organizers cause I'll be honest, I'm only watching the NA summer league because the best NA has is there to compete. I no longer care about the EU league because I don't really care if EU 5 seed can beat EU 6 seed or whatever. That league hase become so much less interesting and to know that's the case because of org corpo greed honestly looks really grim for the scene. Let your players compete if they want to cause I guarantee they want to compete.
Ferra's point is fair regarding big orgs needing more than just a $20k prize pool in return. But at the same time, orgs help legitimize these tournaments and help grow the community, making prize pools in the future bigger, and encourage sponsors to fund more TOs. It is fair to want to stay out but it isn't the optimal decision at the end of the day.
It doesn't cost orgs anything to participate really, the players are being paid anyway and they don't pay to organize. I understand their brand has value and that they bring views and therefore the money so they feel entitled, but it's a win/win scenario that they refuse because it's less of a win for them than they want. These tournaments rarely make profit, so it's not like the organizers have much to offer. Ferra's response seems very PR, I don't think he is allowed to say what he really thinks.
a little bit of hyperboly from Johnny at 6 minutes (about how the unforced error comments are about boost steals two minutes ago and what G2 fans want everyone to say)
This is one of the first times I think that ferra took an L. I feel like he just was not understanding any of the points that they were bringing up about prize money.
Y'all sleeping on frog legs. Lousiana and florida folks will back the french on that one. Also i think we're under-estimating just how many common sauces and dishes in the US and rest of Europe descend from french cooking. ALSOO i mean the bread and dessert and cheese game really isnt something to sneeze at. Fuck colonialism and thank god Vietnam is free BUT the inherent fusion of modern vietnamese cuisine because of french occupation is delicious, its just tragic how it came about
karmine and gentlemates increase the viewers of any RL tournament they participate in by a factor of 10, so they want money. makes sense to me. if RL plays too hard, karmine and mates leave rl and take their masses with them (good night RLesports)
If they're bringing in that kind of viewership to a level where it translates to significant profit for the TO they should be demanding a percentage of the overall profits (post costs) rather than a flat appearance fee. Everyone needs to be on board if they want the E-sport to grow as a whole, which will in turn benefit them too
rizzo is mouse esports biggest hater. i never hear him even mention them. but to be real, you guys are kind of haters on g2. if vitality did what g2 did this year it would be zen is the goat best rl player of all time etc, but since its g2 we got johnny hating on them. like if any 1 even suggests g2 is on top hes going to just start coping. thats what people love to point out, its just completely different the way the teams are talked about. like its snarky about g2, and straight glazing of vitality.
If zen did that last year, which he kinda did? Don’t you think that’s a much more interesting thing as he was a banned rookie having his first appearances?
Love how rizzo and johnny cry but its genuine yall barely said snything about the MAJOR CHAMPS if anyone from eu won all of you would be on your knees about them for 20 mins minimum. All good tho yall cant ever be wrong.
Also where was this energy when vit won worlds? BDS choked like fucking crazy constantly making errors yet we didn't see that arguement come up.. I wonder why🤔
@@MoppedVALso much damn crying and for what?😢 Instead of focusing on people downplaying G2's win, ignore the nonsense and be happy that they're the reigning champions because you might not have that after worlds. Very rarely do teams win back to back LANs.
@@myaccount8482 it's not crying it's saying the truth and I'll focus on whatever tf I want lil bro. If Eu won they'd be glazing for 20 mins MINIMUM and that's the truth.
@@MoppedVAL the reason why this argument never came up after worlds is because Vitality were already the clear best team in the world so you would only argue "Vitality only won because BDS choked" if you were an idiot. No. Vitality were by far the best in the world and a 4-0 sweep solidified that. There's more controversy this time because going into London, it was very unclear going into the LAN who the best team was, and before the grand final happened everyone agreed that Falcons had played the best so far so after G2 won, people were confused at how Falcons went from beating everyone to getting 4-1'd. Just from the eye test alone, you can see that Falcons did not play in the grand final as they did in their previous series'. Anyway sorry for essay just wanted to fully answer your question.
@@myaccount8482Yeah but if Falcons won everyone would be saying they are the best team in the world and there wouldn’t be any controversy at all. Hell, if any team outside of NA had 8 consecutive grand finals appearances(including back to back majors) and a major win they would be unanimously praised. You could argue that Falcons beat better teams at the major to get to the finals but at the end of the day, G2 beat the teams that beat everybody else. It’s not hard to tell what’s going on and why everyone is reacting the way they are about G2 winning.
Wow, seriously...just the way you guys started the cast totally put me off to watching this. I am pretty sure it wasnt about not mentioning G2 enough as much as actually talking them up as the top team in RL. Listening to Johnny struggle to actually say they are the best team, not just because they won the event but actually believe they are because of outstanding game play is horrendous. The copium is real with you guys. I got it, EU has been the best for a long time and its hard to stomach them falling by the way side after you guys rode them all season must be tough but sheesh. Falcons handed them their butts and they came back strong, played one hell of a finals against Falcons and had answers for everything no other team did during the entire weekend. But you know maybe just go ahead and make light because you guys are the end all be all and we are just the dumb fans who know nothing about the game. Good on you Rizz for putting the fans on blast instead of manning up and maybe leaning into the fans so we feel like you actually hear us. I expect it from Johnny but not from you man. No I didnt watch the rest of the cast so if you were just messing with us and actually did listen and apologized whole heartedly good on you but after that start I just couldnt keep going.
If you think G2 only won because Falcons choked, then yes you are taking A LOT away from their win. The honest truth is that this is EU fan cope (MENA fans have been normal about this) because G2 would've won if Falcons choked or not.
No one said G2 only won because Falcons choked, ignore the 2 random people who said that because their opinion doesn't matter. People are saying that G2's win was due to their own good gameplay and ability to play under the pressure of the grand finals but also helped a lot by the fact that Falcons were not able to play under the pressure. Both can be true at the same time.
I think it's you coping a bit there. Falcons proved in their swiss matchup against G2 that they are perfectly capable of taking them down in a pretty dominant fashion. G2 played better in finals but it really isn't clear which one is the better team.
I have said it before, i will say it again, Jhonnyboi needs to chill out a bit and let others speak. Love the man, has great analytical takes and does have deeper understanding of the game for sure but MAN, just STFU sometimes and let others SPEAK. Its beginning to frustrate me as the chalked cast has progressed.
Tournament invites Big Orgs to play/ help with exposure….Big orgs want to charge a fee to play….Tournaments need exposure to grow the scene/charge sponsors more so they can afford fee money…. Tournament invites Big Orgs to play/ help with exposure….Big orgs want to charge a fee to play….Tournaments need exposure to grow the scene/charge sponsors more so they can afford fee money…. Tournament invites Big Orgs to play/help with exposure….Big orgs want to charge a fee to play….Tournaments need exposure to grow the scene/charge sponsors more so they can afford fee money….
johnny has gone on record about saying that cloud 9s run was less impressive because dignitas didn't perform in the finals, but now he says that he doesn't think saying one team choked or didn't perform well takes away from the accomplishment of the team. sure.
Why was Jack brought on to Ferra’s show to not talk?
So they could call him out for making fat stacks as a player
Not enough G2 talk next ep gotta be 24hrs about how G2 are the best
real
People need to start setting their expectations right. Really don't know their issue with last episode, I was just glad they didn't talk about how G2 didn't deserve the win cause Falcons played bad.
@@FunkiMonki69 clearly didnt talk enough about g2 and it really pisses me off g2 man himself rizzo didnt talk about it at least 200 times
This podcast just reminds me that I really want to make individual player jersey/decals a thing. Would really incentivise players creating content and more availability for orgs to gain income.
The problem with orgs withholding their participation on the basis of appearance fees is that virtually every non-RLCS rocket league tourney operates at a loss or barely breaks even. There is only so much a first-time event can do to drive viewership and it costs wild amounts of money to run it well. Casters, admins, production, prize pool, advertising (if you do want to increase your viewership, even marginally) // it takes everyone to build the scene and allow these tournaments to be consistently profitable and allow everyone, including orgs, to then have a piece of the cut. If anything the orgs should be asking for a perfentage of the profits (after expenses.) but their participation in and of itself will drive viewership and growth and make it a more viable system. Plus having all the french teams play in a tourney where theres more pride and eyes on it than scrims is valuable in the lead up to worlds. All around the french orgs have a bad take on this. We grow together. This E-Sport is such a fragile ecosystem as it is
orgs need to make more cash so they're incentivized to be here
Jack real quiet cuz he knows he’s gettin the bread lol
Love when Appjack is in the show.
can't say that chalked receiving hate was something I was expecting to see haha
They let Jack speak a total of 7 words this whole stream lol
I'm American and Jack is right about the bread being sweet. You have to put in some effort to find bread without added sugar.
either youre not American or you are shopping at target
As a big fan of the G2 team and players, I agree with Johnny that saying Falcons choked doesn’t make G2s win any less impressive - Like J said, mental has a lot of impact on outcome and G2 and their fans should be proud that they were as prepared and mentally strong as they were in that series
Regardless of how poorly Falcons were in comparison to their ceiling
Yes, I totally think Falcons underperformed but that doesn't mean G2 weren't phenomenal. Easily the best they looked all season including top 2 at Copenhagen. Beastmode was unplayable.
Just hope that Falcons can overcome the mentality issues and perform at their peak in Dallas now
Thats not the way people saying falcons choked are putting it tho. They say it like g2 ONLY won cuz falcons choked, which is coping and downplaying g2 winning.
@@scrubbyrubberducky That's probably how some people say it; if so they are being silly and you can just let it go
@@scrubbyrubberduckyyeah people saying this are wrong like even if the opposite team is playing bad you have to capatalize and play solidly and not make mistakes as well, it was a mix of falcons playing bad and g2 playing very well
Sounds to me like the orgs signed bad long-term contracts to get the best players at the time and want small TOs to make up for their poor contracts. Why should dumb organizations be bailed out by other folks in the community?
This has been coming for a long time, players have been massively overcompensated for how much money they bring into the orgs via content or sponsorships.
Ferra got a lot of logical points but he is also essentially saying KC (and the French teams) think it's below them
What point are you referencing?
He made no logical points
It is perfectly logical. He just used too many words. Basically he's just saying the French orgs bring a lot of viewership and they want to see some of those returns. If they never put a foot down they will never get those returns.
I don't think he made it out to seem it was below the French teams, but certainly not worth their time though. It costs way too much money for the orgs for the return they get.
He essentially didn't say that at all
Does anyone actually care if the orgs aren't involved so long as the teams/players can still compete? I don't really understand where the support for orgs comes from aside from Moist/KC etc who have a popular persona at the root, besides that who actually gives a toss about some random corporation. Expecting tournament organisers to have a secret pool of money to pay orgs feels like a braindead argument, just take some of the prizepool
No orgs means less pay, less viewership for the overall esport, less exposure for the players overall.
If in the rare scenario that there were no orgs at all, then you would see less of these pros competing
@@majesticmo5048 Yeah i get that and can appreciate that orgs provide some stability for players but would anyone be upset if for example GenG weren't at a tournament but Jack, Chronic and FK were still there as a team. My question is more where does support for random corporations come from, is it mostly people who follow other esports too or just people fanboying about the companies?
@sg9222 I mean it depends on the circumstances. If geng were gone, and there was no other org to pick up the remaining fk, Jack and chronic, then I'd doubt they would be in the competitive scene for much longer. Esports is finite and you want to make money, and sometimes if you are orgless, it's just flat out better to do content.
Some orgs do have dedicated followers like KC or gentlemates, who will watch any esport where ever they see their brand. To answer your question, it's a little bit of both. Like I support G2 in rl, cs, siege, valorant etc, but I don't fanboy about the company itself, I just attach myself to a recognisable brand.
These orgs basically make a deal to promote their players and the esport behind them, while the game they commit to supports them back. But recently RL has been sloppy at that
@@majesticmo5048 I'm talking more about community tournaments, if Gen G didn't want to take part in the occasional tournament for financial reasons then i'd still be happy to see the team playing together under a different name and i'd still see it as the same team. I can't really see this as any benefit though, they're already paying wages and could easily just take part without pumping more money into promotions etc
I think for the orgs to be sustainable they need to be looking internally to make the buisiness more profitable as opposed to expecting money from tournament organisers that can only generate a modest prize pool to begin with. I do agree that epic needs to step up and provide more assistance to help the orgs succeed though, looking after orgs that can get crazy viewer numbers on events and fans buying decals etc is definately beneficial to epic
Makes sense about following an entity across multiple esports though, i don't watch any others so usually have no clue who they are aside from a name in RL. I've always chosen my teams based on the players (playstyle,personality etc), orgs or region don't really bother me
people are a bit too obsessed with growth imo. We should be able to stop and be like this is fucking massive already and players really do drive that for the most part.
Just pressed play. 2 S tier guests. Both are Knowledgeable and very well spoken.
I agree with jack the only reason the term unforced error exists in rocket league is so people like Johnny can try to justify their copium intake
What will happen eventually is all of the esport will be consolidated into a few giant orgs who can afford to pay pros. Those orgs will have multiple teams and push everyone else out. Look at Falcons - they are funded by the Saudi government so they'll always be able to afford the best of the best.
If we want RLCS to have a variety of orgs and parity the only solution is some sort of salary cap/franchise situation. There's just simply not enough money in the scene for each region to have a bunch of orgs paying top dollar for their players. It's a harsh reality that I feel like nobody wants to admit. Esports is a bubble that got too much dumb money invested in it and most orgs did not take the time to build a profitable model. The only orgs that will make it are the ones who are solid (like G2) or have tons of investment (like Falcons).
The only other option is that epic pumps more and more money into the scene to support the mid-level orgs. But all of that wealth will just accumulate at the top anyway over time.
it's sad because fans/players/people in the scene want constant growth and it to be the biggest thing in the world but the only way that happens is what you are talking about.
French players won't get out of bed for less than $20k 😭😭😭 iykyk
[edit] I just listened to the cuisine tiers episode and there's a part where Johnny literally says, "They have a lot of things that you probably don't even know are French... like crepes are French" I CAN'T
How does ferra have such a thick French accent with a better English vocabulary than some native English speakers I know
Because native english speakers form slang and the language sorta changes depending on your community. Ferra learned English formally, and therefore Is more "correct"
58:12 this just gave me an idea. What if for example, KC calls out Vitality during this off season for a wager match bo7 and hype up it up for a week. I think it will create that content buzz orgs look for plus give the teams a meaningful match to play.
What most people dont understand about large Orgs is that these esport teams are basically a charity case for them to be able to gain exposure / a fan base while being able to write off losses against their actual cash flow positive business. F1 is a perfect example of this (though events and pay is structured differently), the teams themselves almost never are "profitable". They blow HUGE sums of money into the sport just to be in the competition and maybe pick up a fan base they wouldnt have reached without. But they are by no means looking to make this a self sustaining entity. Its entire existence for the org is essentially marketing with some fun on the side (which coincidentally decreases their tax bill due to all the "business expenses" that are incurred).
yeah that's what Ferra is getting at when he says a lot of them are prepared to lose money. Whereas you have Resolve who want to be making profits and gains every year
Jack was right about Italian food. shame nobody mentioned Thai or Indian
A forced error in RL is as simple as outpositioning the other team. Let’s say the last defender is forced to choose between two defensive positions, he plays a bit of an in between, and then a ball to the top corner is able to squeak through. That is a forced error. Similar to blast in the ball to the backboard is an incredibly difficult read, your team wouldn’t say “i can’t believe you missed that”, it’s a forced error. Not mechanically but positionally, let’s say the defender spaced himself from the backboard and it’s not hit super hard. He will probably think “ah I should’ve got that one.” Even though it’s the same play very small differences in positioning determines forced vs unforced errors in our game.
Anytime you have a free touch on ball and mess it up is an unforced error.
I think it's more relative than that in the sense that at what point do you expect a pro level player to just make up for a small forced error in positioning? If I fail to make a play that 99% of pros would make 99% of the time, even if by your definition basically any pressure is a forced error, that surely has to go as an epic fail when we talk about who "played well" and whatnot. Imo if we get lost in a very lenient definition of forced error we're overestimating one team and downplaying the other's fuckup, it's not the most "deserved" praise. G2 forced errors, but not all; those panicky falcons clears even in those "forced" positions are not standard in pro play I feel.
100% saying a team choked takes away from the other team's success because the spot light is on the one team's failure and not at all on the team that performed well imo.
after following Jack for years for him to say Italian food is overrated this has has pissed me off and I never want to see his face again
😂
As an italian myself, i hate when people say "Italian food is overrated" when the quality of italian food is a lot higher in Italy than in America (i know Jack's english but he lives in the US). Like, some Americans actually think that Shrimp Alfredo and Chicken Parm are italian dishes.
@@somerandomchad469what is the best Italian food?
@@olloyd3458 personally, pasta al ragù.
Yay! Finally some good guests!
jack got like 2 sentences in
@@4oho361crap 😂
Doing it again lmao.
“102 mentions aren’t enough” =/= talking about the actual team as a topic for sub-5 minutes.
And I cannot stress this enough, I am NOT a G2 fan or calling you a hater, I’m simply saying it was weird that y’all didn’t have the Major winners as an actual headline topic immediately after said Major.
Like I feel that is an entirely fair critique for a esports podcast lol.
someone should make a petition that looks for pro players, coaches, and other influential figures in the rlcs scene to sign in support of the change in prizepool distribution if long-term contracts and monthly salaries are guarunteed. I would like to see the numbers alone, forget the names that do and don't sign.
It's good to see Johnny consistently having F tier food opinions. I'll never forget him trying to claim Scottish food, that involves the most disgusting dish ever invented (haggis) and also just a bunch of bland dishes with potatoes, meat and other shit, was better than American food. Lost all credibility with his opinion on food with that take, so it's good to see him staying on brand with liking anchovies on pizza and frog legs and snails. 👌🏼👍🏼
They're just strawmanning NA fans and G2 fans to a ridiculous extent. NA fans are understandingly upset that they finally win a major and everyone immediately digs into the most insane hole possible to say that actually they DIDN'T deserve to win and they aren't the best team in the world, when gentlemates and vitality did the exact same thing and commentators literally couldn't stop talking about how they're the best team ever and no one even compares.
Then G2 wins and it's painfully obvious people are trying to downplay it as much as humanly possible. Like it physically hurts to watch how hard johnny is trying to downplay G2's accomplishments. Resorting to extreme circumstances and strawman arguments to make NA fans seem irrational. It's just sad, just let people be happy about their team winning.
What makes it even crazier is that G2 have made literally even Grand final this entire season and they're specifically not bringing that up because that would make G2 look too good.
My guy gm8s were huge underdogs last major, literally no one was expecting them to win it, g2 is nowhere near the underdog gm8s were, beastmode, atomic and daniel, are all experienced players that have proven themselves as world class at lan since gamers8
Not sure what kinda comments you been reading (maybe get off reddit) but I have seen very few comments say G2 don't deserve it, and johnny literally said, even if flacons choked, that doesnt mean g2 deserve it any less, it just isnt as crazy as gm8s win or a prodigy (zen) winning a major on his professional debut.
@@___echo___Gm8’s played a G2 that choked too. Most people had G2 in the Copenhagen final after they took down EU twice, it felt inevitable that G2 would take it, just as it felt inevitable that falcons would take London. But G2 could not produce their same level in the GF and looked generally nervous as Falcons did.
@nlgilly maybe take a breath and go outside.
All of Chalked Cast has said G2 is the best team in the world right now. Not only that, but they barely spoke about GM8s winning the previous major (afterwards)
gets upset, says CC is strawmanning G2 fans, proceeds to strawman CC. el classico
You didn't mention OXG throwing vs Furia
Rizzo is hating on G2 WHEN HE WAS IN G2 LONG TIME AGO!!
Jack saying he's only 20 gave me fucking whiplash, good lord.
When is Salt Mine 4?
Why is the tagged game for this League of Legends?
I am a big G2 fan but I have to say the G2 fanbase is kinda becoming the TeamLH of RLCS
They didn’t even mention G2 vs Furia what the heck
Would players not be able to play in tournaments themselves if the orgs chose not to be represented? I agree orgs should have an incentive to play in small tournaments, but I don't think players should be restricted.
This is what leads to players playing in random pickup teams for these tournies, aye
Wow, you guys didn’t spend the entire episode worshipping the ground Beastmode walks on? Disrespectful, what a bunch of clown analysts.
You would think the European orgs would want their team to get the practice before the worlds.
Orgs not playing doesn't make sense. Theyre still playing for salaries of players SMM coaches. Asking for appearance fees from small tournament organizers makes no sense. The TO won't grow if there's no big teams, it makes more sense to ask bigger TOs for AF like EWC or Epic. Once TOs get bigger it makes sense but playing in small trusted tournaments helps the community and org reputation
MY GOAT FERRA
The whole forced vs. unforced errors debate is irrelevant, and I'm glad they kind of resolved to that. When Vitality beat BDS at Worlds, no one complained that BDS choked or didn't show up. Vitality deserved the win. At the previous Worlds, no one complained about how G2 choked against BDS because BDS deserved the win. This major, G2 deserved the win. Weird that people are trying to cope over Falcons losing. Falcons looked great up until that series, and they should be proud of that. Can't wait to see them at Worlds this year.
If it was single game elimination I could get the arguments of their better their worse. But best of 7 means you get atleast 4 chances to prove you're the best team. G2 beat falcons 4 times on the day they were the best team
Jack is my favorite player but the guy should never utter another opinion about food ever again lmao
The peak viewership of this esport, which is basically nothing compared to the tier 1 esports of the world, is only because of the giant French orgs. This esport is essentially washed without them. No shot in hell the Shift tournament gets any more than 30k viewers. Epic needs to change the way they’re handling everything or this game will be dead.
Has it been discussed in any of these episodes, how NA teams have been booed by fans so much in the past few years for this game? It's pretty strange and interesting to me and I'm surprised to see so little discussion of it. I'm not even American but would be nice to hear a USA USA USA chant when NA teams are popping off at lans, without it being boo'd and shut down. Though I must say, there's a significant degree of entertainment value in seeing NA fans or NA teams be booed just for them to win afterwards, so I suppose I'd miss it if the ones doing it stopped.
Mostly get booed because most lans are outside of america, at worlds this year the crowd is gonna be buzzing for na
@@vrases9910 I'm pretty sure it was at the last world championship that was in the US, a USA chant started up and there was massive booing through the crowd which shut it down pretty quickly.
Also isn't it strange to just expect a team will get booed if they're playing in a different country? All the events we've had in the U.S and I don't recall Middle Eastern teams, South American Teams, Asian teams, Australian teams, African teams or European teams getting booed at any of them, unless there's an occurence I can't recall. Just seems to me American players, talent, and fans deal with a disproportionate amount of hatred from other fans just for being American.
@@shannon6365zen literally got booed in boston bro😂😂
best player of the whole tourney and he got booed😂😂😂
Finally someone talks about the fact that players get the prize money lul. I've always found it weird.
W Ahmad
Yeah,I had to come over from Spotify to comment. What Ferra says doesn't make sense. The orgs exist literally to have players participate in the esport. If they are declining to participate unless they get paid that really does not make sense. Like if the players didn't want to play I'd get it but I doubt that honestly. they got in the scene cause they love to compete not for brand deals or anything. They literally could have accepted let the players just play to no cost for the org. Them declining strictly hurts any third party organizers cause I'll be honest, I'm only watching the NA summer league because the best NA has is there to compete. I no longer care about the EU league because I don't really care if EU 5 seed can beat EU 6 seed or whatever. That league hase become so much less interesting and to know that's the case because of org corpo greed honestly looks really grim for the scene. Let your players compete if they want to cause I guarantee they want to compete.
Anyone want a deadzone for right joystick? Rl get your shit together
Shift league being a mostly English speaking event has got to reduce the value for the French teams as well
I think G2 choked really bad in the finals of the Copenhagen major.
They must’ve been nervous. That’s the only valid explanation for them losing
And falcon choked the London final, so...
Ferra's point is fair regarding big orgs needing more than just a $20k prize pool in return. But at the same time, orgs help legitimize these tournaments and help grow the community, making prize pools in the future bigger, and encourage sponsors to fund more TOs. It is fair to want to stay out but it isn't the optimal decision at the end of the day.
It doesn't cost orgs anything to participate really, the players are being paid anyway and they don't pay to organize. I understand their brand has value and that they bring views and therefore the money so they feel entitled, but it's a win/win scenario that they refuse because it's less of a win for them than they want. These tournaments rarely make profit, so it's not like the organizers have much to offer. Ferra's response seems very PR, I don't think he is allowed to say what he really thinks.
Franchise here we come, or what? Competitive integrity will take a toll if. What else could happen?
a little bit of hyperboly from Johnny at 6 minutes (about how the unforced error comments are about boost steals two minutes ago and what G2 fans want everyone to say)
Jack looks too calm and quiet for some reason, not like the usual
This is one of the first times I think that ferra took an L. I feel like he just was not understanding any of the points that they were bringing up about prize money.
Y'all sleeping on frog legs. Lousiana and florida folks will back the french on that one. Also i think we're under-estimating just how many common sauces and dishes in the US and rest of Europe descend from french cooking. ALSOO i mean the bread and dessert and cheese game really isnt something to sneeze at.
Fuck colonialism and thank god Vietnam is free BUT the inherent fusion of modern vietnamese cuisine because of french occupation is delicious, its just tragic how it came about
Ferra basically defending the french orgs being entitled af
karmine and gentlemates increase the viewers of any RL tournament they participate in by a factor of 10, so they want money. makes sense to me. if RL plays too hard, karmine and mates leave rl and take their masses with them (good night RLesports)
RL was doing just fine without em as an esport. Bye bye frenchies.
@@liq2029 i mean viewership wise, it was not
People would just start liking a different team and still watch. Just like how all the C9 fanboys turned into NRG fans when C9 left the scene
If they're bringing in that kind of viewership to a level where it translates to significant profit for the TO they should be demanding a percentage of the overall profits (post costs) rather than a flat appearance fee. Everyone needs to be on board if they want the E-sport to grow as a whole, which will in turn benefit them too
Bro it's "assuming makes an ass out of you and me" not you and I lmao. You know like ass-u-me not ass-u-i
He was doing a bit lol 💀 where's the media literacy
Cjcj is pronounced newpo not nowpo
If the system doesn’t change, french elitism will be the downfall of EU
rizzo is mouse esports biggest hater. i never hear him even mention them.
but to be real, you guys are kind of haters on g2. if vitality did what g2 did this year it would be zen is the goat best rl player of all time etc, but since its g2 we got johnny hating on them. like if any 1 even suggests g2 is on top hes going to just start coping.
thats what people love to point out, its just completely different the way the teams are talked about. like its snarky about g2, and straight glazing of vitality.
If zen did that last year, which he kinda did? Don’t you think that’s a much more interesting thing as he was a banned rookie having his first appearances?
Love how rizzo and johnny cry but its genuine yall barely said snything about the MAJOR CHAMPS if anyone from eu won all of you would be on your knees about them for 20 mins minimum. All good tho yall cant ever be wrong.
Also where was this energy when vit won worlds? BDS choked like fucking crazy constantly making errors yet we didn't see that arguement come up.. I wonder why🤔
@@MoppedVALso much damn crying and for what?😢 Instead of focusing on people downplaying G2's win, ignore the nonsense and be happy that they're the reigning champions because you might not have that after worlds. Very rarely do teams win back to back LANs.
@@myaccount8482 it's not crying it's saying the truth and I'll focus on whatever tf I want lil bro. If Eu won they'd be glazing for 20 mins MINIMUM and that's the truth.
@@MoppedVAL the reason why this argument never came up after worlds is because Vitality were already the clear best team in the world so you would only argue "Vitality only won because BDS choked" if you were an idiot. No. Vitality were by far the best in the world and a 4-0 sweep solidified that. There's more controversy this time because going into London, it was very unclear going into the LAN who the best team was, and before the grand final happened everyone agreed that Falcons had played the best so far so after G2 won, people were confused at how Falcons went from beating everyone to getting 4-1'd. Just from the eye test alone, you can see that Falcons did not play in the grand final as they did in their previous series'. Anyway sorry for essay just wanted to fully answer your question.
@@myaccount8482Yeah but if Falcons won everyone would be saying they are the best team in the world and there wouldn’t be any controversy at all. Hell, if any team outside of NA had 8 consecutive grand finals appearances(including back to back majors) and a major win they would be unanimously praised. You could argue that Falcons beat better teams at the major to get to the finals but at the end of the day, G2 beat the teams that beat everybody else. It’s not hard to tell what’s going on and why everyone is reacting the way they are about G2 winning.
YEEESSSS FERRAA ❤
Rare Johnnyboi W
Sounds like some grabbing at straws as to why NA finally won
?
@@Assterrickss g2 stans think anything less than "this team is literally jesus christ reincarnated and also mike tyson GOATS" is hate
Wow, seriously...just the way you guys started the cast totally put me off to watching this. I am pretty sure it wasnt about not mentioning G2 enough as much as actually talking them up as the top team in RL. Listening to Johnny struggle to actually say they are the best team, not just because they won the event but actually believe they are because of outstanding game play is horrendous. The copium is real with you guys. I got it, EU has been the best for a long time and its hard to stomach them falling by the way side after you guys rode them all season must be tough but sheesh. Falcons handed them their butts and they came back strong, played one hell of a finals against Falcons and had answers for everything no other team did during the entire weekend. But you know maybe just go ahead and make light because you guys are the end all be all and we are just the dumb fans who know nothing about the game. Good on you Rizz for putting the fans on blast instead of manning up and maybe leaning into the fans so we feel like you actually hear us. I expect it from Johnny but not from you man. No I didnt watch the rest of the cast so if you were just messing with us and actually did listen and apologized whole heartedly good on you but after that start I just couldnt keep going.
found the G2 trigga
No need to get this offended like an actual child lmao it's a video game podcast
If you think G2 only won because Falcons choked, then yes you are taking A LOT away from their win. The honest truth is that this is EU fan cope (MENA fans have been normal about this) because G2 would've won if Falcons choked or not.
No one said G2 only won because Falcons choked, ignore the 2 random people who said that because their opinion doesn't matter. People are saying that G2's win was due to their own good gameplay and ability to play under the pressure of the grand finals but also helped a lot by the fact that Falcons were not able to play under the pressure. Both can be true at the same time.
I think it's you coping a bit there. Falcons proved in their swiss matchup against G2 that they are perfectly capable of taking them down in a pretty dominant fashion. G2 played better in finals but it really isn't clear which one is the better team.
I have said it before, i will say it again, Jhonnyboi needs to chill out a bit and let others speak. Love the man, has great analytical takes and does have deeper understanding of the game for sure but MAN, just STFU sometimes and let others SPEAK. Its beginning to frustrate me as the chalked cast has progressed.
Seems to be getting worse as time goes on
Yall are a joke 😂
Tournament invites Big Orgs to play/ help with exposure….Big orgs want to charge a fee to play….Tournaments need exposure to grow the scene/charge sponsors more so they can afford fee money…. Tournament invites Big Orgs to play/ help with exposure….Big orgs want to charge a fee to play….Tournaments need exposure to grow the scene/charge sponsors more so they can afford fee money…. Tournament invites Big Orgs to play/help with exposure….Big orgs want to charge a fee to play….Tournaments need exposure to grow the scene/charge sponsors more so they can afford fee money….
First
Second
@@KoraxzGaming third
@@lw3469fourth
How tf is british and american cuisine on the same level? Its american and its not even close. Put it in A
Fr, people think American cuisine is just fast food
yes a 3/10 is better than a 2/10
Mena cannot argue they are the best, they haven't won a single event, ever!
Gamers8 2022? I think you mean rlcs events
@@SnakeThisLife furia won g8 2022
johnny has gone on record about saying that cloud 9s run was less impressive because dignitas didn't perform in the finals, but now he says that he doesn't think saying one team choked or didn't perform well takes away from the accomplishment of the team. sure.