NT Wright & Douglas Murray • Identity, myth & miracles: How do we live in a post-Christian world?
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2021
- Episode 3 | Season 3 of The Big Conversation
In this live conversation chaired by Justin Brierley, social commentator Douglas Murray engages theologian NT Wright on whether Christianity still makes best sense of the world in a post-Christian age, and how to address the growing meaning and identity crisis in the West.
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As an American and a Catholic, I resonated with much of this wonderful conversation. As Douglas referenced, there is a movement among younger Catholics to reclaim a staggering richness and depth of beauty that many of us feel robbed of, namely the Latin Mass and various practices that were, consciously by some, expelled from the Church in the 60's and thereafter. But beyond that, there is a hunger to have the institution itself boldly stand for the Truth that does not bow to the shallow whims and pernicious ideologies of the day.
As an aside, Matthew 11:12 was mentioned twice during this conversation, and it made me think of the novel by the American southern gothic and Catholic author Flannery O'Connor, who wrote a novel called 'The Violent Bear it Away', based on that very perplexing Gospel verse.
there is no greater enemy towards Catholicism than the pope imo
Yes. Stuck quite a nerve here too. I haven't quite gone full Tridentine Mass but I feel myself being pulled in that direction.
When I attended one of the few Tridentine Masses offered in my diocese, I expected to see a lot of elderly people. I was pleasantly surprised by how many young people with small children were there. After all, most of them have no memory of the pre-Vatican II era. I myself grew up in the 70's and the era of felt banners and Sr. Mary Pantsuit, when listening to "Godspell" and "Jesus Christ Superstar" in religion class took the place of actually teaching about the faith. No wonder many of us left the church as adults. Although I came back, I am still dismayed by progressive parishes - if all you have to do is subscribe to the latest fashionable political beliefs and "be nice" there is no reason to make it to church on Sunday morning.
This Pope is looking to be the one the Reformation pointed to
Matthew 11:16-19. See the "can't win coming or going" violence? Less perplexing now? Sure does sound familiar, yes? Do we understand why?
Splendid conversation, run so smoothly and respectfully. I wish we have more of such intellectual honest people expressing honestly their point of view. JB did a good job moderating it proficiently and professionally.
Douglas, an "uncomfortable agnostic", pointing out very accurately what the modern church should be doing, namely preaching the gospel and the truth of the Bible - and stop falling for the same shallow and false ideologies as so many others... Spot on!
And Justin is a wonderful moderator.
Justin
Indeed. Church is so afraid to be criticized standing with the truth
Justin is a remarkable moderator--a rare breed.
He always is. What a civilised young man
It won’t happen for two reasons:
1 church leaders are too busy banging little children.
2 reason number 1 stripe the church out of any positive authority.
Moving and frankly crushing conversation. The weight is heavy on the shoulders of Murray-it’s painful to listen to someone longing for the hope found in Jesus, but seemingly unable to be comforted. My hope and prayer is for him to encounter the risen Christ! “You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.”
Jeremiah 29:13ESV.
Agreed but we are all on the journey and arrive at different times.
I’m a converted Catholic from atheism and after three years I think I have a good hold on what is going on in the Church as a whole. The dos and donts. I feel finally I am on a firm enough foundation that I can begin seeking the right questions and answers.
Douglas is still seeking and is honest about what he is struggling with. Big props to him.
All in God's time and timing. The deeper the valley, the higher the mountain ;)
For all the times I’ve heard either side is this argument, I’ve almost never heard both points articulated and discussed intelligently in the same room. Thank you for this!
Both guests are so respectful of each other, and transparent and willing to be vulnerable. Very pleasant to the ears.
Superb all three - thank you. Douglas's honestly is inspirational - needs to be heard... Tom's faith is inspirational - needs to be heard ...
I disagree on Tom W.'s faith which does not need to be sold at the expense of all personal devotion and mandatory obedience...
Thank you, NT Wright- for speaking kind & bold about our God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit!
😂😂😂. What a deluded idiot you are..Yiu belive in a 'sky daddy' 😂😂😂😂
NT being one of my favorite theologians and Murray one of my most inspiring authors, I was downright giddy waiting for this discussion. Thank you!
why wont he have a dialogue with ehrman- too scared!
@@johnnysprocketz It's a bit funny how atheists believe Bart Ehrman to be Infallible or even close. Just like everyone else in a scholarly circle, his claims are as well heavily refuted with facts.
@@zoliozgamer7008 it isn't funny because no thinking person thinks anyone is infallible, that is why historians are fact based not fiction based, clearly your mind is still running on sheep mode, pathetically slow and glitchy.
I really loved this conversation. What a privilege that we live in a time that it can be broadcast to the world. It reminds me of Matthew 10:27 : “What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops”.
Douglas is a wonderful apologetic for Christianity. Such a genuine honest and delightful man. Mr Wright also is great to hear.
If only it were possible to give this two thumbs up. Excellent conversation and many thanks to everyone who made this happen.
Thumbs up for your comment, and thumbs up on the video... two thumbs up :)
@113:00
Yes, music is inviting us to something, it is inviting us to worship.
That feeling,, that awe, that manifests in us, IS worship. We also experience it in those moments when we stand in awe of creation.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you..
Douglas Murray could talk with a mute sloth about the plain oatmeal he ate for breakfast and it would probably still be more interesting than most other discussions.
Douglas Murray could talk to the 2 cats from next door about the price of walnuts at Christmas and it would be more interesting than most conversations I've had in my life.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
Unless oatmeal happened to be your reason for living, then well...
Just goes to show how much of murrays success lies in his performative meandering, rather than the depraved substance of his speech...
@Steve Quilley Yes depraved, his brand of cynicism is toxic and his apologism for the most hideous figures of the nativist right like Viktor Orban or Geert Wilders is embarrassing.
Excellent, excellent! So much respect for these two men. Such reasonable, knowledgeable, courteous interlocutors! Exemplary. 👏👏
Great programme. You had two great and articulate thinkers of our time. Thank you!
Ahhh! Just listening to N.T. Wright soothes the soul! He always brings it all right back to the nitty gritty of the reason we are Christians-Jesus!-and so articulately reveals why God’s story is true! I very much enjoyed Douglas’s honesty as he shared his questions as he navigates his journey! Great discussion!
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you..
I take great encouragement from the mere fact of this conversation having happened. A rich interaction, facilitated by a thoroughly capable interviewer, and not the usual debate over faith (Sam Harris destroys!) where two delivery systems for two incompatible worldviews talk past each other. Excellent stuff. The conversation on matters of meaning is maturing.
Hey, the Catholic Church has a whole Sacrament devoted to forgiveness. Kind makes it hard to forget.
Certainly takes the spirit out of it
@@parkerj1776 Just like marriage takes the spirit out of matrimony I presume?
@@les_goddams4846 one could argue yes!
@@parkerj1776 Modernity in a nutshell.
@@les_goddams4846 To be fair to his point: very few actually participate in the sacrament; and it tends to be just the receiving end. Forgiving others? We Catholics are as bad as everyone else, in my experience. Which is precisely the point, I think. And a fair one.
Douglas; Music is the language of the soul.. God bless you, sir..
Brilliant conversation, what fascinating and enlightening men! I thank God we still have people like these to testify to the truth! Thank you so much for the good work you do Unbelievable ❤️
The ancient Greeks tried to shape members of a society to be worthy of leadership positions.
Now our leaders are trying to camouflage their sinister inadequacies by creating societies blind to their selfserving agendas.
“It is in vain, O men, that you seek within yourselves the cure of all your miseries. All your insight only leads you to the knowledge that it is not in yourselves that you will discover the true and the good. The philosophers promised them to you, and have not been able to keep their promise…"
-Blaise Pascal
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
I love listening to you guys. It is so refreshing to listen to people with brains that have used them to reflect on life and its mysteries.
Douglas Murray is more Christian than he thinks he is and understands Christianity's core message really well. God bless him ;-)
Absolutely loved this episode. Wow! Both these guests are you awesome. It's great to have such open and respectful conversation.
I could listen to both these men for days and days. God bless them 🙏✝️
Could have listened to them for hours and hours... Such a beautiful and important conversation. Thank you.
I have the greatest respect for Douglas Murray not only because he is brilliant but because there is an honest desire for the truth in him. I pray that he will one day be found by the Truth, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and come home to the Real Presence and the fullness of the Truth in the Catholic Church. St Joseph, pray for us.
I really enjoy most of NT wrights insights.
Fascinating discussion and very encouraging to hear such depth of thought from all speakers. Many thanks.
Thanks Tom, Douglas and Justin!
FABULOUS! FASCINATING! 👍🏼 More please! Thanks for this.
This was a great and well thought-out subject. It’s truly helped solidify some of thoughts I had about our current society. The you’re wrong, we’re right with no reconciliation is just horrible, May Jesus save us all.
@Sylvana Baptista demeans women? Would you like to explain that if you don’t mind
@Sylvana Baptista Without the news of Women the accounts of the resurrection would not have happened. Certainly the Bible has been used to demean women but that does not take away from the truth of the Gospel. I’m sorry you feel that way but biblical womanhood in fact is one that is in equality with manhood just differences of course.
Superb dialogue. Thank you to all involved.
What an amazing discussion . Thank you ..So much
Douglas Murray's complaint is a poignant one. WHY is Tom Wright an anomaly in the Church? Nevertheless, two intellectual giants. I love them both. I pray for them both. They are needed.
It is always a great encouragement to me to hear two sides of thinking discussed so respectfully. It’s very helpful to be made aware of the struggles within those who do not find themselves able to believe what the bible teaches as the truth.
The best of the Brits!!
Well done Justin. Great show.
What an awesome conversation. My hope for unity and the search for Truth is restored. Thank you to all 3 of you that such an exchange can happen where heart speaks to heart and the need to be right is left at the door.
As I listened I was thinking, "What a mystery...all these differing conclusions. Doesn't it mean that faith is received, and not arrived at entirely through reason? I know I didn't give it to myself and I believe that God would give it to anyone who seeks Him, without question.
Maybe as the catechism says it's the 'obedience of faith'? Like Moses removes his sandals and bows in reverence; then God reveals Himself and certainty comes. 'God is the One who initiates this encounter. He gets his attention and Moses bows, and because he has the right disposition of heart God reveals Himself. He even tells him His Name.' (I am loosely citing Fr (Robert?) Langforde here.)
I wonder if Douglas' desire to believe in God means he already does, just not in religion and is just sad that it hasn't produced more saints than it has, similar to my own sorrow that I'm not a saint yet either.
Does it mean that I failed God if faith hasn't yet produced in me a sufficient likeness to Jesus? To His sanctity and sacrificial love? Have mercy oh Lord and hurry! Time is running out!
Though I may not be capturing his meaning perfectly I love Tom's comment that this tension will always be one that remains. I will always be a sinner in need of my Savior and if I suddenly figured out all that I should do and be, knowing myself I would most assuredly take over, try to be my own God, and ruin everything.
I am Catholic but I am also happily now an NT Wright fan as well.
And at Douglas' comment; I'm not surprised that there aren't many practitioners of nihilism.
I mean we can't help but want more because we didn't create ourselves and so can't get rid of that hunger. Otherwise we would all be happy materialists instead of the miserable ones that we are. :)
Love these conversations, thank you!
Fantastic. Moving. Timely.... and, timeless.
This was wonderful. Thank you!
Thankyou. A wonderful thought-provoking conversation.
Great discussion. Thank you very much.
I was so excited for this and it did not disappoint!!❤️
I couldn't wait for Douglas Murray's appearance on The Rubin Report with Peter Boghossian and documentary film maker Travis Brown . Had to get my fix of rationality, reason and clarity. Thanks for looking out.
I think Douglas made a very interesting observation at the beginning about the church tradition being abandoned and how many people are grieving over that including himself. But what was even more fascinating is that he equalised that with The Gospel.
And how often we do this?!
Things that are dear to us in our culture, that has been even shaped by the Gospel we confuse them with the Gospel itself.
You are right, the transfiguration mountain transfigured my faith too, when I realized what place I look at, being there. It received that aspect of physical joy that previously wasn't there, and it stays with me. Now, before abandoning my faith, I will have some explaining to do.
My favorite discussion yet! Great work.
Excellent conversation!
Thanks!
Can we take a moment to appreciate how brilliant Murray's impression of Chris Hitchens at 17:30 is? :)
"Broken Signpost" - what a brilliant book title by Tom. It reminds me a little of John Lennox's 'beauty and barbed wire' metaphor too.
Great conversation! Thank you! I've read quite a bit of Tom Wright, and heard some of his lectures. However, this has been my introduction to Douglas Murray. I've started reading "The Madness of Crowds", and Douglas, I find your talk and your book fascinating and refreshing!
Wonderful discussion.
Incredible interview.
Loved this conversation!!
I'm an (imperfect) Orthodox Jew and I very much enjoyed this discussion.
Thumbnail is the happiest I’ve ever seen Murray look.
I love the discussion. I lived 40 years without faith. Then, suddenly and unexpectedly, God entered my world which led me to consider - eventually accept/invite - Jesus. This discussion, while important and well-intentioned, is struggling to describe what the "Church" is in the abstract and using ethical terms. Yet, our current readings in the Mass point to the ANSWER. The church is not built on doctrine, nor ethics. It is built on love as evidenced in the full life of Christ, an ethic of the Sermon on the Mount, lived to the full - which always leads to the Cross. Christ is the Way - "Love one another as I have loved you." The love of Christ is a sacrificial love. The only way the "world will change" is when individual people change. One can embrace the change to love as an "ethical" choice, but the clearest path to this kind of love is the path of Love of Christ - and it has a COST that we must individually choose to pay.
I do agree. Indeed there is a cost, our own (daily) Cross, that we must accept in order to get to love Christ, and our neighbour.
Yes this is something I am personally confronting as well. It's the suffering Christ that 'reveals man to himself' most intimately and teaches us the way of Christian sacrificial love that is impossible for me apart from faith in Him, along with the possibility of true self knowledge and the trust to confront the lack of it (love) in me without running away. Like the scripture says, "Apart from Him I can do nothing."
Douglas puts it all together so well as an uncomfortable agnostic.. Thank you so much for holding the church to its standards. I think you make a huge contribution from the outside of our faith, especially to those who would not listen to the pastors. Its not the bible at fault, but rather the lukewarmness of the church and those who still call themselves Christians and preach the most appalling heresy, eg. Church of England.
Amazing thank you
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
Someone reminded me that loving your enemy doesn't mean you forget he still an enemy.
No but it does totally change what you know you need to add to the situation.
It doesn't mean you forget, but it means that your enemy no longer becomes your enemy. Check Ephesians 6. Jesus was all about reversal of roles. Paul the persecutor becomes the greatest purveyor of Christianity, poor fisherman have Apostolic authority and the Pharisees who know much don't recognize Jesus for who he is!
@@robertguidry2168 sort of how Germany and Japan became American friends.
Fantastic and I loved that comment about music that Douglas volunteered
Justin: I'm just happy to be here, let me get out of the way.
Tom: We should show the truth about Jesus through love for all people made in God's image.
Douglas: I agree. And you if you divorce the truth about Jesus (which I don't personally believe) from that love, and substitute postmodern Marxist theories, you will destroy the church and the world.
Poor characterization of this discussion. Your comments reflect more of your apparent closed-minded perspective than an openness to seek truth. Your loss.
Are you a THEIST? 🤔
If so, what are the reasons for your BELIEF in God? 🤓
@@ReasonableFaith-Charlotte in your own words, define “TRUTH”. ☝️🤔☝️
@Still Waters, do you consider homosexuality sinful?
If so, why?
@Jesus Saves, who is my creator and for what REASON is homosexuality bad (despite good and bad being relative concepts)?
big fan of douglas murray
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you.
I believe
Great conversation! Thoroughly enjoyed it.
Listening again two years later.
Very interesting, thought provoking and important conversation.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you..
As a follower of NT Wright I thought he missed the mark with his letter to Murray in the Spectator. He misunderstood the nature of Wokery but it seems that Tom is now aware of the antichristic beliefs within that philosophical system. I also thought that Tom was too quick to beat his breast about past failures with racism in the church. Douglass schooled him on that matter quite comprehensively. What kind of a Christian really thinks that the church had it hopelessly and utterly wrong for two thousand years only to have a bunch of violent Marxist/Frankfurt School thugs point out to us for the first time that racism was wrong??? And if the church had it wrong for its entire history, then how arrogant must we be to think that we've finally cracked the mystery of what true Christianity really looks like?
@Excuse me but I'm not sure what you mean. There are always improvements and ways of responding to events that can be done, but if you take as a starting point that the Church was essentially apostate until BLM came on the scene and educated us that racism was bad...then why be a Christian at all? Just join BLM
@Excuse me but what do we mean by ‘church’?
I ask because to say ‘the church had it wrong’ you need to be explicit about what you mean by church. Most of the ‘church’ did not own slaves and a great many were themselves slaves (both in 1st C and of course in the transatlantic slave trade).
The history of slavery and Christianity is more nuanced than we normally have time to explore in debates and comment threads
@@petethorne5094 I agree and would add that the "church" if we include christian abolitionism efforts through out history, then BLM is late to the party on the issue. Fredrick Douglass is one of my favorite Christian theologians. His voice carried the prophetic edge of Old Testament prophets like Isaiah and Amos as he winsomely and powerfully denounced the hypocrisy of American Christianity. The church has never be silent on the issue, but portions of the church ignored this voice. FD who was born a slave would remark often on the "Christ-less religiosity" of slave holders. In Douglass’ description of his cruel ‘slave handler’ Mr. Covey “His religion hindered him from breaking the Sabbath, but not from breaking my skin. He had more respect for the day than for the man for whom the day was mercifully given; for while he would cut and slash my body during the week,, he would not hesitate, on Sunday, to teach me the value of my soul, or the way of life and salvation by Jesus Christ”. Fedrick understood and preached white supremacy as incompatible with the God of the Bible. That is not a new message. Fighting injustice was par for the course of Christian living in Douglass' estimation. He writes, "I love the religion of our blessed Savior ...It is because I love this religion that I hate the slaveholding, the woman-whipping, the mind-darkening, the soul-destroying religion that exists in the southern states of America."
Geoff Jones well said
This was amazing. Thanks.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you..
This was such a joy & blessing to watch. God bless you
As with many channels that DM appears on I find myself subbing and staying for other conversations. Great discussion.
2 guys that both think and speak lucidly ,candidly and interestingly
It's a long to get to a an honest conversation.
Thank you
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They both shone with the questions at the end. I would love to see Douglas Murray on the 'Lord of Spirits' podcast with Fr. Steven De Young and Fr. Andrew Damik.
Very good.
Very sharp people discussing a very relevant topic. Thanks JB. Beautiful discussion about the so called 'thin places' are found in Philip Yancey's RUMORS OF ANOTHER WORLD, or Peter Berger's A RUMOR OF ANGELS.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you..
I do tire of the constant use of "there's a sense in which". Thank you for mentioning the resurrection, the one discontinuity/disruptive event without which the emergence of Western culture can't be explained.
@Ian Callard,
There is a sense in which, you are correct.
Though some would dispute your conclusion.
I think Douglas is God's provision to challenge the church to be what it should be. I would like to encourage him to stay true to this.
I have loved this conversation and honesty. Agree with Douglas how the church needs to stop apologising for itself. I love answers from NT Wright . For me this missing piece is the link between Judaism and Christianity. Much of Christianity has lost its understanding because it has missed understanding the Torah. Messiah Yeshua/ Jesus did not appear in the new testament but deeply rooted in the Old Testament.
Justin, one of the best episodes ever. Have never been a huge NT Wright fan because of some of his questionable theology, but incredibly impressed (once again) by Douglas in his search for truth without straw manning Christianity. Well done, Justin, yet again.
"Questionable theology" read : disagreement with Western Reformed theology.....
Really wish this had more views. Absolutely fascinating convo. NT Wright should have the exposure of a Douglas Murray. Would love to see him on any one of the Intellectual Dark Web member's podcast
Tom Wright a new voice on UA-cam. Thanks. Somehow trustworthy.
Unbelievable
the *royal* we...
This was great, as usual when N.T Wright is on. JB is also doing a great job, and this was my first encounter with DM and it was interessting. I also really hope he will find his way back to faith in Jesus...
9Marks book the Compelling Community is a must for anyone who intrigued by this video
Thank you Andrew I have your book on the madness. I watch alot of your interviews as you are a true bastion of absolutes vs relativism. One thing that never comes up in these conversations is the reality of sin. Something that I personally think Andrew would benefit discussing in depth and of course for the restof us to enjoy and pray for Andrew to see the revealed truth to be blessed with joy unspeakable from on high.
I would love to hear a conversation between Tom Holland and Douglas Murray. Both are "wistful unbelievers" with a profound respect for Christianity, but Tom Holland is more liberal. Holland sees the admission of millions of refugees into Europe as a Christian act, whereas Murray believes it is weakening Europe and the Christian inheritance. I tend to agree with Murray, but I would like to see them debate that issue.
Question: 2+2 = ?
Wright: Well, Jesus of course
Haha I jest. I actually love his conviction in Jesus, and quite honestly I’d be willing to accept that answer^. Great conversation! Nothing but love for this Unbelievable show where the conversations are certainly not small.
"Just believe" is one of the sillier commands the religious foist on us. Belief arises from deep experience. It isn't willed consciously.
Murray is exactly where I was when I was an atheist. I saw humanists around me with no cognitive dissonance, but I couldn't understand it. Humanism made no sense. I kept looking at the foundation of the worldview and it was incapable of supporting anything of substantive value. “Granted that we want the truth: why not rather untruth? And uncertainty? Even ignorance?” - Nietzsche -
Why did humanism make no sense?
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you....
@@williamlanecraig752 Did your account get hacked by foreign Christians?
@@MoNtYbOy101 The short answer is that it's incompatible with materialism and/or logical positivism.
@@christiangadfly24 God bless you brethren, am the one writing you this message,just email them,so as to save a soul,God bless you as you do that.
We have yet to get to loving our enemies in a very real, very practical sense. It is radical, it is revolutionary, and perhaps terrifyingly different. But clearly, it is Jesus's mandate...and if we really followed it, would lead to a great societal transformation in the direction of that which we yearn to find visible in the
world:. Love and peace.
Beautiful/
Great point by Tom Wright about coming as a society to believe the Enlightenment Lie that Christianity was no more than part of the problem rather than where to look for the solution. An interesting topic in its own right, Justin, for a future programme?
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
A very stimulating conversation. However, there was a failure to bring out that we were created to live for eternity. Jesus himself spoke eternal life. That is why it was necessary for Jesus to die on the cross and rise again. See John 3:14-15
Thats because we weren't just because some character in you favourite book of fairy tales says so doesn't make it so.
@@TheD4VR0S I feel like you are missing the point, and it makes me wonder why you are even watching this video. A bit strange. Even Murray thinks way deeper and more seriously than you even as he claims to be an atheistic type now, and I assume you're a fan of Murray. Just saying, 'the Bible is merely a book of fairy tales' doesn't actually help or prove much at all. That's largely why our entire society is so corrupt with wokeism, New Atheism, Marxism, post-modernism, and so forth. That's what this entire video is about in the first place.
@@TheClassicWorld I wasnt commenting on the video I was commenting on the lies of john rowland and his evidence for those lies is it says so in a work of fiction a book that has a talking donkey in it - like shrek
Yes!!! I’ve been pointing that out to my Kids’ Sunday School, as of late. Jesus, born of a human mother, defeated physical death & therefore, bringing us, His human brothers, to a chance, via salvation, of eternal life, too.
@@pamcollins2178 Or god could have just said "you know what i'm going to stop having people tortured for eternity"
Douglas is right .
Christians must actually live the Gospel.
Tom Wright is a broken record. That's the best metaphor to arise out of this discussion. We cant make sense of life or receive the divine comfort without Jesus.
I know right...isn't it lame that a person sticks to his beliefs...so out of fashion...
I really like the way you his conversation went. With all the drama all over, this was a breath of fresh air