Framework laptops are definitely not for the mainstream definitely more of an "investment" piece where you bank repairability and reducing e-waste when upgrading
there is literally no way to beat a macbook in terms of e-waste,m especially not with this, thats what the people are missing. the whole idea is flawed and cannot ever work under any circumstance. just see how now every computer is switching to ARM, nobody ever will sell a machine with INTEL AMD or NVIDIA parts, EVER, PERIOD literally all companioes have stated this publicly, from microsoft to amazon to tesla to valve to sony etc yo0u name it. this already means the whole framework design is obsolete and useless like already now. a macbook easily lasts 15 yerars and gets used at least 10. and the battery easily lasts that long
@@JohnSmith-pn2vl Who says Framework won't have an ARM based board you can switch to when the current issues with windows on ARM are ironed out? They already have a RISC-V board. And no a macbook isn't necessarily going to last 15 years, in 10 years I'll be needing way more than my current m1 can do. But you can't upgrade your macbook unless you get a whole new one, which is the whole damn problem here. This isn't just about things needing repair, it's also about upgradability. That was literally the point of the comment you responded to, "e-waste when upgrading", and you can't get worse than the Macbook for this as nothing about it is upgradable. On top of that, no matter how reliable a macbook is, that won't protect you from accidents, which are extremely costly with Apple products, and another point in favor of the Framework laptops. So no, Framework is not obsolete and useless. That's such a ridiculous thing to say at this point.
"From one open source nerd to another" if that's really the premise, apple and razor should even be up for debate, two companies known for their hostile, anti consumer behaviour.
Free software (and hence open source) literally had it's origins in working around proprietary hardware and software. I'd say that pragmatism should usually be a priority for end users - I have a Framework and subsequently got both an Apple *and* Razor laptop (both for good and different reasons). That there weren't better alternatives is too bad, but if the alternative is to not get what you need done at all, that's usually a worse outcome.
I have a new 13 on pre-order but they're still not competitive on the speaker front. We will see what some EQ can do for the speakers. Webcam v2 will be better but lose to Snapdragon laptops likely. The new screen is a huge upgrade though.
What ? Look it up ...Apple is consistently rated near the very top of buyer satisfaction and loyalty and usually the VERY TOP each year for customer service and technical support.
I'm currently on macOS, for almost 20 years already. It's a nice experience, but I always disliked how closed and unrepairable the hardware is. As they keep tightening the thumb screws on their software as well, I'm considering to switch to Linux next. My first choice for hardware would be Framework, and COSMIC seems to become my DE of choice for Linux.
I use my beloved ThinkPad T480 with an i5-8350U. It does a good enough job for daily use but not for high-demanding tasks. With that, I use Arc and KDE but have not customized much. I use this as my personal computer, and I use a 16-inch MacBook Pro M1 Pro for college and my business.
@@DMS3TVFun fact, I'm the guy that said Oreos and milk are the best when listening to headphones. That's what made chrono so hungry the whole gaming stream. I have a question for you. Are you coming to Socal Cam Jam? The reason I'm going is that I'm going. Is chrono going to it?
I have the Framework 13 with 11th generation Intel I7. Purchased it in November '21. Initially ran Ubuntu 21.10. Now Ubuntu 22.04 and soon will upgrade to 24.04. It's great for almost everything. I also have a MacBook Air M3. They are both great. The nice thing is I'll be able to upgrade the motherboard on the Framework when I want to.
I use a Framework 13 with Fedora KDE and its about the perfect laptop, IMO. I also agree that a small but good DAC/amp with 4.4 would be killer for this. Something like a mini Aune Yuki with just 4.4 designed for a framework slot would be an instant buy. As far as pricing, I got my Framework as a factory second (11th gen processor, shiny screen but otherwise new) for $500. Especially good deal if you have any of the bits laying around like a wifi card or a spare NVMe. Its a nice starting point to eventually upgrade from if nothing else.
Can you provide info about that microphone expansion module? Did you transplant a Rode VideoMic into a 3D printed enclosure? Quality sounds great and I'm interested in making one of my own.
I've got a Lenovo x1 carbon 8th gen and I took it entirely part with a screw driver and a pry tool to fix the screen. I wish more companies made things like that
I'm also on the Framework AMD7040 with NixOS, (64Gb RAM and 4Tb SSD) I'm thinking about getting the webcam upgrade when it's back in stock. It's been great handles everything I throw at it.
I have a x200 Thinkpad with libreboot and arch. Old ThinkPads are really great, I honestly just use it for tinkering and note taking. I use a newer Thinkpad for work, and it just has windows.
I think Dell and HP are going to adjust as far as they need to retain their enterprise users - and you’ll see some of the most attractive cost-saving measures copied by the main companies anyways. I don’t see Framework stepping outside of the niche of ‘custom latops’, inevitably losing like 90% of the market for all laptops. Just my 2 cents though.
Love my Framework 16. Has been a great machine to do game dev and have been using (and contributing to) elementary OS on it. Besides anything I've done myself to ruin the experience from tinkering it has worked like a charm!
Linux user for the last 5+ years here, i used to bump around on distros for a while and then I started using Pop OS. It's probably not the "best" or "newest" or "best for gaming" distro, but I love the window tiling on their desktop and the experience has been super consistent. There hasn't been something I wanted to do but couldn't. Also, the difference between is pretty exaggerated in my experience.
That's why I love Linux. People have such a widely different experience and that's good everyone finds what they want. I started last year with PopOS, jumped around and this year ended up with EndeavourOS and KDE Plasma.
I drive a framework 16 w/ fedora for my personal machine. I think, even more so than the 13" version, it is a flawed machine, and that I probably could have done much better for my money. But my personal machine is not really about getting the perfect bang-for-buck, but more about getting something that I love. And this laptop is fucking cool.
I tend to run Xubuntu, but I do a fair bit of VM based stuff, so the small footprint is great for that. I run RHEL at work, and am pretty much over 10 year old gnome. I still think that my two favorites for a out of the box desktop are ElementaryOS and Mint. The lack of good video card options drives me away from Framework. The Radeon 780M is a step down from the GTX1650 that is in my 5 year old Lenovo that cost $700, when I bought it. If I put a new Linux box together today I would want to run some local LLM stuff, which would mean a big boy video card ( preferably with raytracing ). I think if I were just doing web-development, or other low GPU work, the Framework would be a great daily, even more since I tend to hook my laptop to a dock most of the time I am working, so I could even go with the smaller screen.
I have the same spec'd Framework running NixOS with Hyprland. Also have a MBP for work where I'm running nix-darwin to try and manage both as similarly as possible.
Got the framework 13 amd. Been mostly running Fedora with flatpaka and brew for extra stability. Been considering going back to Arch Linux or try NixOS. Not sure what I'll go to next. I also had the while idea of trying to go back to Debian stable and then get most of the things I need from flatpaka and brew so I can be on the newest version of programming languages I use day to day but still have a very stable system
I think the razer is only viable as an everyday laptop if you don't care about battery life. I would also never recommend them. I've tried razer laptops 3 times now, and every time there has been some sort of quality issue. The first one was a blade 15 where the palm rest kept making a popping noise whenever I rest my palms on it or put pressure like there was a cavity or dead spot. Another Blade 15 2022 had a mushy left click on the touchpad and kept rocking on the table. Blade 14 2023 died on me after two weeks of gaming. I'm on Asus G14 now.
I use Arch (btw) mainly to have a lot of control w/ my DE (I used to have a very tune/stripped down Openbox setup when I started using Linux across both my desktop and laptops, although these days I mostly just use GNOME Wayland. I have a Framework as well, but due to not quite there battery life during a work trip, I got so frustrated that I bought a MBA, which I still use while traveling. I *also* have a last-gen Razer Blade 14 - believe it or not, it was actually the cheapest laptop I could get with a 16GB CUDA GPU at the beginning of the year for otg AI dev/inferencing. Of course it has laughably bad battery life. I'm running Ubuntu 24.04 LTS HWE for stability, but ironically, it's much worse - it ends up hanging 100% (nothing in the error logs) after a certain period of time suspend.
I was really excited to hear, that fedora is supported that well with the framework. currently using pop os on my alienware laptop (love gnome on laptops) and nobara (fedora based with kde) on my desktop. i recently tried out mint with xfce and ran in to some scaling issues which i had no energy looking in to xD. i would love to have a machine like the framework that had linux users in consideration with the config.
Still have the m1, does the job especially when connected to AI and dev servers, and parsec for gaming remotely. As far as Linux Distros go, I use multiple in VMs for work, but my daily runner on my desktop for personal use is Cachy OS, it’s brilliant - performance, gaming + Wayland with Nvidia latest drivers work almost perfectly out of the box. Definitely a great example for how far Linux has come.
Framework is new... Structure issues will hopefully be worked out, design will hopefully improve and most importantly, hopefully they will inspire others to create similar companies offering truly Green, modular and easily repairable mobile devices. I wanna see a framework tablet;
Before Framework even existed, I dropped a substantial amount of money on a Panasonic Toughbook 55 precisely for its modularity and repairability. It's 5 years old, still going just fine, it does everything I need from it. I am hoping that, by the time I can't use it anymore, Framework is still going because that will definitely be what I look at after that.
As someone with a MacBook Pro M1 (2021) I feel confident saying computer hardware is “fast enough”, i.e. unless you have a particular workload in mind (most people don’t) than the Framework is a good buy The major thing the MacBook has is its software and Apple+ warranty, which technically has nothing to do with the hardware itself
I run manjaro on my desktop and work thinkpad. I lose like 5-15% in sleep mode over a day. I also have my old work macbook pro from 2017 it would be still capable but it receives only security updates and running linux on touchbar macbook is a nightmare. I wished framework could have existed sooner
IMO the Framework is the LAST laptop I will ever need. The Anti-MacBook, the VW Beetle of the laptop realm... you get the idea. When it comes to Linux, I have one general rule: For older Apple hardware (I started using Linux on a 2007 iMac), the best distro is Ubuntu, or an Ubuntu-based distro like Pop!_OS (I currently run Ubuntu 24.04 LTS on this iMac). For everything else, Fedora. I tried many times to run Fedora on older Apple hardware and the Broadcom WiFi problem has been quite an issue... even with special drivers. So, Ubuntu it is. When it comes to DE, I'm a GNOME guy. But I'd recommend KDE or Cinnamon to anyone who comes from Windows and wants a familiar look and feel.
I think more people should buy used hardware, for the majority of users a machine that's a few years old is completely fine, people will save a lot of money and we get more use out of hardware before it becomes e-waste. My current laptop I bought used, it was half the price of anything comparable power wise that was new and I'm sure I'll still get many years out of it.
I love the idea behind this but I really wish it could come down in price a bit somehow. Unfortunately, as somebody who doesn't use a laptop too much, it feels like a much better value proposition to just grab a cheap laptop on sale in my case. I think it potentially makes sense if it will be a workhorse which will be used heavily and often, the potential to repair and upgrade components easily over time is amazing but I fear that for the majority of people, the concept just doesn't work out currently.
that is the bottom of it, everything comes at a price, framework is doomed, this will never work out. get a macbook air M1, it will last 10 years and nothing will break ever, you will find a battery replacement in 10 years no problem, there are dedicated shops in every city in the world where macbooks are repaired. framework has 0 chance
I've just had such horrible experiences with Razer products and their abysmal support that I wouldn't even look at used laptops from them. The Ryzen powered framework 13s are super interesting though, along with their new RISC-V parts coming out in the future. I wonder how well the Framework with Ryzen would do with an external GPU (assuming the ports are true USB4). Cool video!
It's really cool to see you cover other aspects of tech than audio stuff. I would love to see how you configure Linux for audio. I'm sure there are some tricks you have that I don't know about. I've been running mint on my main desktop for a little over a year now and it's a fantastic experience. Other than that I have several other PCs with various distros from vanilla Debian to Gentoo with a custom kernel.
it is too expensive, who wants to pay more for less? nobody it also piollutes way more than a macbook, and a macbooks lasts easily 4 times as long including the battery because it consumes 10 times less energy, actually even less. but on the other hand it is way faster and dead silent, literally fanless. it is also cheap as hell
since you've got a couple weirdos in your comments; thank you for that sticker. i may not be part of the lgbtq community but it goes to show why its needed by how volatile some people are when faced with a simple equality sticker.
I think the framework makes sense from a repairability standpoint, but I'm not sure the upgradability is as much of a selling point. If you look at the features on laptops from 5 years ago versus laptops now, you'll have worse screens, worse speakers, worse trackpads, worse webcams, worse batteries, etc than the ones today. Unless you also upgrade those when you upgrade your frameworks motherboard, your laptop will still be outdated in many important ways, and if you do replace them, you've essentially "ship of Theseus"-ed yourself to a new laptop regardless, but it'll be a lot harder to sell individual modules than just an entire older laptop. I also don't like the pro-consumerism aspect of the upgradability, where it seems like many users are buying new parts they realistically don't need just because they can (and it's heavily promoted by the brand). If someone buys that M3 pro MacBook today, there's a good chance they or somebody else will be using it a decade from now, I don't think the same will be true for used framework components (even if you use them in external case or whatever).
Really good point, I feel like when people emphasise the repairability of the framework they ignore other aspects of what make a product long lasting. A high quality product (Macbook, Blade and a lot of the new windows ARM devices) should have no problem lasting 5+ year. With better quality hardware and the new ARM silicon the prospects are only going to get better for laptops nowadays. When my Macbook pro 2012 is sill perfectly capable of normal internet browsing and office work, just imagine how long a current high quality laptop is able to last into the future. I bought my 14” mbp when it came out in 2021 and I don’t see myself needing to upgrade it for at last 5 more years. The ethos of Framework is commendable, and consumer friendly design should be encouraged, but how many actual consumers are bothered to tinker and repair their laptops is questionable. A well rounded package is more appealing to most consumers. For enthusiasts, the Framework ecosystem encourages upgrading parts and components, which in turn might goes against their core principles.
At no point are they convincing people to upgrade or replace stuff just for sake of buying more. In fact the first components they did upgrade were first asked for by the community, like stronger hinges, larger battery, louder speakers. What's most important is that if something fails or gets damaged, then you can replace with it something better. Next there will be a better screen and camera module. Same with the mainboards. Even though they have given upgrades since the first intel 11th gen, people have their own choice of when to do so. A lot of users wanted to see an AMD option since launch and last year they were able to sell it, and so some people switched. It all comes to personal decisions, I don't think we are going to see this consumerism aspect that you refer to.
The part's re-sale has pretty good support from framework there's a market place where you can resell old parts and as more upgrades become available people selling their old parts on this marketplace can supply people who need to repair a broken part rather than an upgrade. I don't see the upgrade options as any more consumerist than the alternative which is usually buying a new PC if you want a new feature. There's the potential for a lot more flexibility for people to only get what they need not have not get top spec everything if the don't need it in some areas with a system like this. If you were buying a new one today and don't need a higher end screen and webcam with better low light performance then you can just get the older ones or pick them up 2nd had for cheap in the market place but you don need a lot of compute for compiling or rendering then you can. If they bring out things like a sensel touch pad, a touch screen, or better speakers same thing. I've had my framework 13 for a little while now and the build quality is such that this thing seems likely to still be running 10 years from now, and in better shape than some of the other laptops I've got from 10 years ago at that, without any upgrades. It's worth noting that fit and finish on the framework 13 compares very favorably to all but most premium systems of other manufacturers as soon as you go out of the flagship lines of Dell/HP/Lenovo you are looking at worse build quality. The shell is clearly built to last on this thing it's a quality product, I wouldn't expect it to be less durable than a macbook or blade even if it's not quite as aestetically refined in its finish.
Nice insights. I do wish framework had a cheaper Chromebook option that I could buy for my daughter's school. I can't justify shelling out $1k for a Chromebook, but I would love to have the repairability of the framework system.
@@cactus2823 she's using a used Lenovo Yoga at the moment. The chassis is cracked though. That's why I wish it was a framework so I could swap it easily.
I would get the 2021 origin pc eon-17x gaming laptop with it's 4k display, intel core i9-109900k desktop cpu, 3080 gpu. Linus from linus tech tips made a video about the origin pc eon-17x gaming laptop back in 2021.
@@danilarosthat's a thing for amateur that are unable to transform time in money. If you'd be a person who works for money you'd understand that sonetimes 1 hour saved is worth 500 bucks
Metroid sticker on a framework laptop. How based can one man get? Also it would be interesting to see someone attempt a drop-in replacement for the webcam module with better microphone to free up the expansion module slot.
@@DMS3TV loaded question. The "equality" that they're "defending" isn't just the usual "let me live amongst you in peace." The moment the LGBT overstepped it's bounds with "let's trans the kids" "let's have drag queens read books to your kids" "let's indoctrinate your kids with our sexuality" thats when "equality" simply meant "let me have special rights."
framework is a complete failure i bet my organs that the macbook beats any other laptop out there at anything. price, noise, quality, cost. and most importantly, it will be the most repaired machine out of the 3 mentioned, this is just a fact. people have NO idea about manufacturing and design and what pro's and con's every decision brings to the table. no way in hell the framework will be cheaper at any point for anything. how much value will it hold? pc laptops are just not repaired because they are simply not worth it, AND there are no parts available at all, just like android phones. after only 6 months there are no parts available anymore. the "repairability" is a fake term, only what actually GETS repaired count's. and hell the macbook is not just a little bit faster, it's night and day. now maybe framework will use ARM at some point, (see, already they have to throw away literally everything because INTEL AMD and NVIDIA are literally dead and the whole design is useless) but still there are plenty issues. "could" repair is meaningless. "got repaired" and "did not break" is what counts. the whole "right to repair" "movement" is a bunch of morons without any clue whatsoever, it is the same as the "stop oil" wannabe's, they literally demand the opposite of what they think they stand for.
ARM is really really new. Linux support still a work in progress. Claims of no software issues I'd bet is unlikely. We will see an ARM mainboard eventually
Particularly for a old laptop, changing the OS to Linux usually gives improvements performance or stability. Just in general Linux is simpler and less resource heavy. The main consideration when switching I think should be program compatibility because Linux is much less popular not that many people develop for it.
Framework won't be around in 12-18 months. Their investment funding will dry up...and they aren't anywhere close to an actual profit. Frankly, "modularity" in desktops has already peaked. Modular laptops with busses and multiple connectors on the LAPTOP motherboard use relatively high-power consuming "add-ons" and each internal slot or connector becomes a data transfer bottleneck. Face it...the future of personal computing is on the ARM-based "System on Chip" design philosophy. Windows Fan Bois are just pissed because Apple got to the Mass Market first and now has a mature product that they will continue to improve....all while some smart Windows laptop makers finally lurch towards there own versions.... 4 years behind.
I wish Framework made a 10" or 11" version. I refuse to ever go back to a large "portable" computer. I currently use a 10" GPD Win Max 2 which is fantastic, but I'd love to support Framework instead if they made a similarly sized product with similar hardware specs (my Win Max 2 has a 7840U, 4TB SSD, and 32GB DDR5 7500 with a 67Wh battery).
I'm still on the sideline about Framework laptops; I like the idea, but the build quality and the type of components are not 100% where I would want it to be. The webcam, speakers, screen, and those things should not be an afterthought if they want to compete in the premium laptop market; the whole casing should be something sturdy, make the whole thing aluminum or if you plan to use plastic, at least reinforce with some carbon fiber so it does not warp. Aesthetically, there's still some work to do, those panel gaps on the 16" is just unacceptable around the trackpad. Why couldn't we get the modules at the back and just have standard USB-C ports on the side or if the modules needs to be on the side, at least make the USB-C ports on them align vertically on the laptop (currently they're not vertically centered). The cooling ports are off-center as well. It would drive me nuts seeing that every day. These are currently deal-breakers for me and if I was in the market for a laptop, I would probably get another maxed out Dell Precision (the thin ones, not the bulky workstation ones) running Linux and run it for 10 years until it no longer works. That said, if you're looking for performance, a desktop is still the best route. I think it's bizarre that people buy gaming laptops and then keep them at home with a keyboard, mouse and screen plugged in when a desktop would have been a cheaper more performant option.
The whole point is that you can put whatever port you want where you want it when you want it; and if I remember correctly, on the 16, the back is a module, but it's for things like GPU's and other larger modules.
openSUSE. Thanks for the insight, the Framework will be my next laptop. I have an M2 MBA, and while it’s probably good for 99% of people, I’ve found it to be a headache for what I do. The battery is the only upside for me.
The disparity of the quantity of stickers is quite telling
hehe
Framework laptops are definitely not for the mainstream definitely more of an "investment" piece where you bank repairability and reducing e-waste when upgrading
there is literally no way to beat a macbook in terms of e-waste,m especially not with this, thats what the people are missing.
the whole idea is flawed and cannot ever work under any circumstance.
just see how now every computer is switching to ARM, nobody ever will sell a machine with INTEL AMD or NVIDIA parts, EVER, PERIOD
literally all companioes have stated this publicly, from microsoft to amazon to tesla to valve to sony etc yo0u name it.
this already means the whole framework design is obsolete and useless like already now.
a macbook easily lasts 15 yerars and gets used at least 10.
and the battery easily lasts that long
@@JohnSmith-pn2vl Who says Framework won't have an ARM based board you can switch to when the current issues with windows on ARM are ironed out? They already have a RISC-V board.
And no a macbook isn't necessarily going to last 15 years, in 10 years I'll be needing way more than my current m1 can do. But you can't upgrade your macbook unless you get a whole new one, which is the whole damn problem here. This isn't just about things needing repair, it's also about upgradability. That was literally the point of the comment you responded to, "e-waste when upgrading", and you can't get worse than the Macbook for this as nothing about it is upgradable.
On top of that, no matter how reliable a macbook is, that won't protect you from accidents, which are extremely costly with Apple products, and another point in favor of the Framework laptops.
So no, Framework is not obsolete and useless. That's such a ridiculous thing to say at this point.
"From one open source nerd to another" if that's really the premise, apple and razor should even be up for debate, two companies known for their hostile, anti consumer behaviour.
agreed, but I know different people have different needs in their computers.
Free software (and hence open source) literally had it's origins in working around proprietary hardware and software. I'd say that pragmatism should usually be a priority for end users - I have a Framework and subsequently got both an Apple *and* Razor laptop (both for good and different reasons). That there weren't better alternatives is too bad, but if the alternative is to not get what you need done at all, that's usually a worse outcome.
I have a new 13 on pre-order but they're still not competitive on the speaker front. We will see what some EQ can do for the speakers. Webcam v2 will be better but lose to Snapdragon laptops likely. The new screen is a huge upgrade though.
What ? Look it up ...Apple is consistently rated near the very top of buyer satisfaction and loyalty and usually the VERY TOP each year for customer service and technical support.
@@goobfilmcast4239 they are very anti-consumer in their practices though. Designing things to intentionally be unrepairable.
I'm currently on macOS, for almost 20 years already. It's a nice experience, but I always disliked how closed and unrepairable the hardware is. As they keep tightening the thumb screws on their software as well, I'm considering to switch to Linux next. My first choice for hardware would be Framework, and COSMIC seems to become my DE of choice for Linux.
That Metroid sticker is so hard
My life REALLY began in metroid fusion
The day a track point keyboard becomes available for a framework laptop, is the day I finally leave thinkpad for framework
I use my beloved ThinkPad T480 with an i5-8350U. It does a good enough job for daily use but not for high-demanding tasks. With that, I use Arc and KDE but have not customized much. I use this as my personal computer, and I use a 16-inch MacBook Pro M1 Pro for college and my business.
Thinkpad t440p still going strong here
@@MA-xb2yz how's the battery life
T480 gang here
@@adityamuni9537 terrible tbh. It’s mostly my car laptop for indie games, Vn’s. Keep it plugged in all the time.
@@adityamuni9537 terrible
That intro shot of the opened framework is beautiful.
It's on a pixel 8a fun fact
@@DMS3TVFun fact, I'm the guy that said Oreos and milk are the best when listening to headphones. That's what made chrono so hungry the whole gaming stream. I have a question for you. Are you coming to Socal Cam Jam? The reason I'm going is that I'm going. Is chrono going to it?
I have the Framework 13 with 11th generation Intel I7. Purchased it in November '21. Initially ran Ubuntu 21.10. Now Ubuntu 22.04 and soon will upgrade to 24.04. It's great for almost everything. I also have a MacBook Air M3. They are both great. The nice thing is I'll be able to upgrade the motherboard on the Framework when I want to.
I run nixos, i love how reproducable it is, and i love how i can just share my dotfiles with a friend and just like that they are running my setup,
nice - me too
I use a Framework 13 with Fedora KDE and its about the perfect laptop, IMO. I also agree that a small but good DAC/amp with 4.4 would be killer for this. Something like a mini Aune Yuki with just 4.4 designed for a framework slot would be an instant buy.
As far as pricing, I got my Framework as a factory second (11th gen processor, shiny screen but otherwise new) for $500. Especially good deal if you have any of the bits laying around like a wifi card or a spare NVMe. Its a nice starting point to eventually upgrade from if nothing else.
Can you provide info about that microphone expansion module? Did you transplant a Rode VideoMic into a 3D printed enclosure? Quality sounds great and I'm interested in making one of my own.
I've got a Lenovo x1 carbon 8th gen and I took it entirely part with a screw driver and a pry tool to fix the screen. I wish more companies made things like that
why would anyone want that, all windows machines suck ass anyway, there is literally not a single one with a decent screen to begin with.
My AMD7040 framework running NixOS is an absolute beast for my usecase of software development.
I'm also on the Framework AMD7040 with NixOS, (64Gb RAM and 4Tb SSD) I'm thinking about getting the webcam upgrade when it's back in stock. It's been great handles everything I throw at it.
I have a x200 Thinkpad with libreboot and arch. Old ThinkPads are really great, I honestly just use it for tinkering and note taking. I use a newer Thinkpad for work, and it just has windows.
I think Dell and HP are going to adjust as far as they need to retain their enterprise users - and you’ll see some of the most attractive cost-saving measures copied by the main companies anyways.
I don’t see Framework stepping outside of the niche of ‘custom latops’, inevitably losing like 90% of the market for all laptops. Just my 2 cents though.
Hyper light drifter mentioned?! Love that game!
Fun fact I use a sound from that game as my phone's notification sound
@@DMS3TV Hell yeah, that's sick.
Love my Framework 16. Has been a great machine to do game dev and have been using (and contributing to) elementary OS on it. Besides anything I've done myself to ruin the experience from tinkering it has worked like a charm!
Linux user for the last 5+ years here, i used to bump around on distros for a while and then I started using Pop OS. It's probably not the "best" or "newest" or "best for gaming" distro, but I love the window tiling on their desktop and the experience has been super consistent. There hasn't been something I wanted to do but couldn't. Also, the difference between is pretty exaggerated in my experience.
That's why I love Linux. People have such a widely different experience and that's good everyone finds what they want. I started last year with PopOS, jumped around and this year ended up with EndeavourOS and KDE Plasma.
I’m running Ubuntu on Framework 13 because I’m after ultimate stability and reliability….although Fedora support from Framework is equally excellent.
I drive a framework 16 w/ fedora for my personal machine. I think, even more so than the 13" version, it is a flawed machine, and that I probably could have done much better for my money. But my personal machine is not really about getting the perfect bang-for-buck, but more about getting something that I love. And this laptop is fucking cool.
I tend to run Xubuntu, but I do a fair bit of VM based stuff, so the small footprint is great for that. I run RHEL at work, and am pretty much over 10 year old gnome. I still think that my two favorites for a out of the box desktop are ElementaryOS and Mint. The lack of good video card options drives me away from Framework. The Radeon 780M is a step down from the GTX1650 that is in my 5 year old Lenovo that cost $700, when I bought it. If I put a new Linux box together today I would want to run some local LLM stuff, which would mean a big boy video card ( preferably with raytracing ). I think if I were just doing web-development, or other low GPU work, the Framework would be a great daily, even more since I tend to hook my laptop to a dock most of the time I am working, so I could even go with the smaller screen.
I have the same spec'd Framework running NixOS with Hyprland. Also have a MBP for work where I'm running nix-darwin to try and manage both as similarly as possible.
Got the framework 13 amd. Been mostly running Fedora with flatpaka and brew for extra stability. Been considering going back to Arch Linux or try NixOS. Not sure what I'll go to next. I also had the while idea of trying to go back to Debian stable and then get most of the things I need from flatpaka and brew so I can be on the newest version of programming languages I use day to day but still have a very stable system
I think the razer is only viable as an everyday laptop if you don't care about battery life. I would also never recommend them. I've tried razer laptops 3 times now, and every time there has been some sort of quality issue. The first one was a blade 15 where the palm rest kept making a popping noise whenever I rest my palms on it or put pressure like there was a cavity or dead spot. Another Blade 15 2022 had a mushy left click on the touchpad and kept rocking on the table. Blade 14 2023 died on me after two weeks of gaming. I'm on Asus G14 now.
I use Arch (btw) mainly to have a lot of control w/ my DE (I used to have a very tune/stripped down Openbox setup when I started using Linux across both my desktop and laptops, although these days I mostly just use GNOME Wayland. I have a Framework as well, but due to not quite there battery life during a work trip, I got so frustrated that I bought a MBA, which I still use while traveling. I *also* have a last-gen Razer Blade 14 - believe it or not, it was actually the cheapest laptop I could get with a 16GB CUDA GPU at the beginning of the year for otg AI dev/inferencing. Of course it has laughably bad battery life. I'm running Ubuntu 24.04 LTS HWE for stability, but ironically, it's much worse - it ends up hanging 100% (nothing in the error logs) after a certain period of time suspend.
I was really excited to hear, that fedora is supported that well with the framework. currently using pop os on my alienware laptop (love gnome on laptops) and nobara (fedora based with kde) on my desktop. i recently tried out mint with xfce and ran in to some scaling issues which i had no energy looking in to xD. i would love to have a machine like the framework that had linux users in consideration with the config.
Still have the m1, does the job especially when connected to AI and dev servers, and parsec for gaming remotely.
As far as Linux Distros go, I use multiple in VMs for work, but my daily runner on my desktop for personal use is Cachy OS, it’s brilliant - performance, gaming + Wayland with Nvidia latest drivers work almost perfectly out of the box. Definitely a great example for how far Linux has come.
Any plans to buy the Laptop 16?
Framework is new... Structure issues will hopefully be worked out, design will hopefully improve and most importantly, hopefully they will inspire others to create similar companies offering truly Green, modular and easily repairable mobile devices. I wanna see a framework tablet;
Before Framework even existed, I dropped a substantial amount of money on a Panasonic Toughbook 55 precisely for its modularity and repairability. It's 5 years old, still going just fine, it does everything I need from it. I am hoping that, by the time I can't use it anymore, Framework is still going because that will definitely be what I look at after that.
As someone with a MacBook Pro M1 (2021)
I feel confident saying computer hardware is “fast enough”, i.e. unless you have a particular workload in mind (most people don’t) than the Framework is a good buy
The major thing the MacBook has is its software and Apple+ warranty, which technically has nothing to do with the hardware itself
I run manjaro on my desktop and work thinkpad. I lose like 5-15% in sleep mode over a day. I also have my old work macbook pro from 2017 it would be still capable but it receives only security updates and running linux on touchbar macbook is a nightmare. I wished framework could have existed sooner
IMO the Framework is the LAST laptop I will ever need. The Anti-MacBook, the VW Beetle of the laptop realm... you get the idea.
When it comes to Linux, I have one general rule: For older Apple hardware (I started using Linux on a 2007 iMac), the best distro is Ubuntu, or an Ubuntu-based distro like Pop!_OS (I currently run Ubuntu 24.04 LTS on this iMac). For everything else, Fedora.
I tried many times to run Fedora on older Apple hardware and the Broadcom WiFi problem has been quite an issue... even with special drivers. So, Ubuntu it is.
When it comes to DE, I'm a GNOME guy. But I'd recommend KDE or Cinnamon to anyone who comes from Windows and wants a familiar look and feel.
These are all the laptops I’m interested in.
im basic, ubuntu.
I think more people should buy used hardware, for the majority of users a machine that's a few years old is completely fine, people will save a lot of money and we get more use out of hardware before it becomes e-waste. My current laptop I bought used, it was half the price of anything comparable power wise that was new and I'm sure I'll still get many years out of it.
I love the idea behind this but I really wish it could come down in price a bit somehow. Unfortunately, as somebody who doesn't use a laptop too much, it feels like a much better value proposition to just grab a cheap laptop on sale in my case. I think it potentially makes sense if it will be a workhorse which will be used heavily and often, the potential to repair and upgrade components easily over time is amazing but I fear that for the majority of people, the concept just doesn't work out currently.
that is the bottom of it, everything comes at a price, framework is doomed, this will never work out.
get a macbook air M1, it will last 10 years and nothing will break ever, you will find a battery replacement in 10 years no problem, there are dedicated shops in every city in the world where macbooks are repaired. framework has 0 chance
Since you mentioned roguelites, do you play dead cells any?
Absolutely. Love dead cells. It's gotten me through many long flights.
@@DMS3TVYES! Dead Cells 👑
@@DMS3TV damn. my man is based as hell
Fedora KDE. I like the simplicity of gnome, but I hate extensions.
Thank you very much! DMS.
The "Defend Equality" sticker is something else
pretty awesome
I would get the big Framework if they would ship to my country.
OpenSuse which uses the RPM package manager | Yast
Linux guy, I love Fedora & Debian! For desktops, I love KDE and Xfce and MATE (in that order).
the foam wall is hilarious LOL
I've just had such horrible experiences with Razer products and their abysmal support that I wouldn't even look at used laptops from them. The Ryzen powered framework 13s are super interesting though, along with their new RISC-V parts coming out in the future. I wonder how well the Framework with Ryzen would do with an external GPU (assuming the ports are true USB4). Cool video!
It's really cool to see you cover other aspects of tech than audio stuff. I would love to see how you configure Linux for audio. I'm sure there are some tricks you have that I don't know about. I've been running mint on my main desktop for a little over a year now and it's a fantastic experience. Other than that I have several other PCs with various distros from vanilla Debian to Gentoo with a custom kernel.
I'm running my own Fedora Atomic image on my frameworks. BlueBuild made it super easy to create it
I love my framework
framework has a GPU module for the 17 i think.... it slides in on the rear of the unit
I use Windows, but the OS I have for WSL is Fedora.
thats a cool samus aran sticker!
Thanks! always loved metroid 😄
Hey! Good vid, but are you planning on reviewing any headphones/IEMs soon? Thanks
I am! I have a few audio-vids in the pipeline.
@@DMS3TV Good to know! Looking forward to them! Thanks for taking the time to respond lol
I have been making music on a used Blade for 4 years. Paid next to nothing for it.
It was nice of you to let those bored children draw on your shirt like that.
this man has a trijicon sticker, why trijicon?
just because I really like my SRO. It's been a great piece of gear.
im currently running ubunto on my framework but im thinking of switching to something else for school
If I had more money i would get the framework but its too expensive for me...
it is too expensive, who wants to pay more for less? nobody
it also piollutes way more than a macbook, and a macbooks lasts easily 4 times as long including the battery because it consumes 10 times less energy, actually even less.
but on the other hand it is way faster and dead silent, literally fanless.
it is also cheap as hell
Wow that 2080 super still holds its weight compared to my laptop 4070 for a 1/3 of the cost 🤯
Where is the RMR mount? 😂
Gotta make a module for that LOL. Put my SRO on the laptop 😤
Imagine framework laptops with snapdragon chips!
Wouldn't recommend razer laptops. They have a trerrible track record for longevitiy, a lot dying after 2 years
since you've got a couple weirdos in your comments; thank you for that sticker. i may not be part of the lgbtq community but it goes to show why its needed by how volatile some people are when faced with a simple equality sticker.
Does the Samsung 980 pro in 9:30 prolong battery life over the wd black ssd offered by framework?
I just used the 980 pro because it's what I already had here around the studio so I ordered the framework with no drive.
I think the framework makes sense from a repairability standpoint, but I'm not sure the upgradability is as much of a selling point. If you look at the features on laptops from 5 years ago versus laptops now, you'll have worse screens, worse speakers, worse trackpads, worse webcams, worse batteries, etc than the ones today. Unless you also upgrade those when you upgrade your frameworks motherboard, your laptop will still be outdated in many important ways, and if you do replace them, you've essentially "ship of Theseus"-ed yourself to a new laptop regardless, but it'll be a lot harder to sell individual modules than just an entire older laptop.
I also don't like the pro-consumerism aspect of the upgradability, where it seems like many users are buying new parts they realistically don't need just because they can (and it's heavily promoted by the brand). If someone buys that M3 pro MacBook today, there's a good chance they or somebody else will be using it a decade from now, I don't think the same will be true for used framework components (even if you use them in external case or whatever).
Really good point, I feel like when people emphasise the repairability of the framework they ignore other aspects of what make a product long lasting.
A high quality product (Macbook, Blade and a lot of the new windows ARM devices) should have no problem lasting 5+ year. With better quality hardware and the new ARM silicon the prospects are only going to get better for laptops nowadays. When my Macbook pro 2012 is sill perfectly capable of normal internet browsing and office work, just imagine how long a current high quality laptop is able to last into the future. I bought my 14” mbp when it came out in 2021 and I don’t see myself needing to upgrade it for at last 5 more years.
The ethos of Framework is commendable, and consumer friendly design should be encouraged, but how many actual consumers are bothered to tinker and repair their laptops is questionable. A well rounded package is more appealing to most consumers. For enthusiasts, the Framework ecosystem encourages upgrading parts and components, which in turn might goes against their core principles.
At no point are they convincing people to upgrade or replace stuff just for sake of buying more. In fact the first components they did upgrade were first asked for by the community, like stronger hinges, larger battery, louder speakers. What's most important is that if something fails or gets damaged, then you can replace with it something better. Next there will be a better screen and camera module.
Same with the mainboards. Even though they have given upgrades since the first intel 11th gen, people have their own choice of when to do so. A lot of users wanted to see an AMD option since launch and last year they were able to sell it, and so some people switched.
It all comes to personal decisions, I don't think we are going to see this consumerism aspect that you refer to.
The part's re-sale has pretty good support from framework there's a market place where you can resell old parts and as more upgrades become available people selling their old parts on this marketplace can supply people who need to repair a broken part rather than an upgrade. I don't see the upgrade options as any more consumerist than the alternative which is usually buying a new PC if you want a new feature.
There's the potential for a lot more flexibility for people to only get what they need not have not get top spec everything if the don't need it in some areas with a system like this. If you were buying a new one today and don't need a higher end screen and webcam with better low light performance then you can just get the older ones or pick them up 2nd had for cheap in the market place but you don need a lot of compute for compiling or rendering then you can. If they bring out things like a sensel touch pad, a touch screen, or better speakers same thing.
I've had my framework 13 for a little while now and the build quality is such that this thing seems likely to still be running 10 years from now, and in better shape than some of the other laptops I've got from 10 years ago at that, without any upgrades. It's worth noting that fit and finish on the framework 13 compares very favorably to all but most premium systems of other manufacturers as soon as you go out of the flagship lines of Dell/HP/Lenovo you are looking at worse build quality. The shell is clearly built to last on this thing it's a quality product, I wouldn't expect it to be less durable than a macbook or blade even if it's not quite as aestetically refined in its finish.
I use arch btw
Nice insights. I do wish framework had a cheaper Chromebook option that I could buy for my daughter's school. I can't justify shelling out $1k for a Chromebook, but I would love to have the repairability of the framework system.
Used thinkpads are great for this case. No need for chrome books
@@cactus2823 she's using a used Lenovo Yoga at the moment. The chassis is cracked though. That's why I wish it was a framework so I could swap it easily.
Equality of outcome or opportunity?
What JBL speakers are those in the Ad segment? And those stands?
JBL 306P mk2 and kanto stands 😄
@@DMS3TV are the 305ps as good? Or should I get the 306ps? Mainly a size thing
@@nathanielfoo96 if you want a smaller speaker than the 306 look at the Kali LP-UNF
@@DMS3TV My room be 3mx4m with my desk in the centre of the 3m side.
En el momento en que vi el bolso kislux , supe que tenía que tenerlo.
You’re back !
Running NixOS. I'll get a framework as soon as I can, they have first class support for my distro
Yeah okay 👌🏻
the defend equality sticker is pretty cool :3
Thanks 😄
I would get the 2021 origin pc eon-17x gaming laptop with it's 4k display, intel core i9-109900k desktop cpu, 3080 gpu. Linus from linus tech tips made a video about the origin pc eon-17x gaming laptop back in 2021.
The main issue is battery life
Anyone have any luck finding a Blade with a 2080/2080S for anything remotely close to $550-$600?
They're all over eBay
mac is more expensive long term because of less pirated software, let's be real
You're also going to paying the apple tax for the programs you buy^^
Do you know what is open source? 🙂
@@danilarosthat's a thing for amateur that are unable to transform time in money. If you'd be a person who works for money you'd understand that sonetimes 1 hour saved is worth 500 bucks
@@luigismilazzo in the company where I work we use Linux and some open source software and we are lucrative…so…
@@danilaros imagine how lucrative could be...
Metroid sticker on a framework laptop. How based can one man get?
Also it would be interesting to see someone attempt a drop-in replacement for the webcam module with better microphone to free up the expansion module slot.
Not based at all, considering the "Defend Equality" sticker.
Don't want people to remain equal?
@@DMS3TV loaded question. The "equality" that they're "defending" isn't just the usual "let me live amongst you in peace." The moment the LGBT overstepped it's bounds with "let's trans the kids" "let's have drag queens read books to your kids" "let's indoctrinate your kids with our sexuality" thats when "equality" simply meant "let me have special rights."
@@DMS3TV I thought you were intelligent? No one is equal. If you are referring to healthcare, pay rate etc a sticker won’t cut it bro
@@mitchellcampleman8236 The conversation wasn't about healthcare or pay rate but I agree both of those are issues.
I recommend watchers get dearrow, these titles suck, but at least this one is better than "I bought the slowest one" or something
It cycles titles periodically.
Kde + debian
framework is a complete failure i bet my organs that the macbook beats any other laptop out there at anything.
price, noise, quality, cost.
and most importantly, it will be the most repaired machine out of the 3 mentioned, this is just a fact.
people have NO idea about manufacturing and design and what pro's and con's every decision brings to the table.
no way in hell the framework will be cheaper at any point for anything.
how much value will it hold?
pc laptops are just not repaired because they are simply not worth it, AND there are no parts available at all, just like android phones.
after only 6 months there are no parts available anymore.
the "repairability" is a fake term, only what actually GETS repaired count's.
and hell the macbook is not just a little bit faster, it's night and day.
now maybe framework will use ARM at some point, (see, already they have to throw away literally everything because INTEL AMD and NVIDIA are literally dead and the whole design is useless) but still there are plenty issues.
"could" repair is meaningless.
"got repaired" and "did not break" is what counts.
the whole "right to repair" "movement" is a bunch of morons without any clue whatsoever, it is the same as the "stop oil" wannabe's, they literally demand the opposite of what they think they stand for.
That's the opinion of a man who can't change his own oil
サムス！！！！
Douglas, thank you for another wonderful review! 👌
Reverend Dr. Thomas,
✝️ The Vegan Vicar 🌱
That pride flag sticker goes HARD
My only real problem with switching to a Framework is that there's no ARM processor available and it's a deal breaker for me.
ARM is really really new. Linux support still a work in progress. Claims of no software issues I'd bet is unlikely. We will see an ARM mainboard eventually
Why is Linux so great? I am watching this on a 5 years old laptop and I feel no need to upgrade
Particularly for a old laptop, changing the OS to Linux usually gives improvements performance or stability. Just in general Linux is simpler and less resource heavy. The main consideration when switching I think should be program compatibility because Linux is much less popular not that many people develop for it.
Framework won't be around in 12-18 months. Their investment funding will dry up...and they aren't anywhere close to an actual profit. Frankly, "modularity" in desktops has already peaked. Modular laptops with busses and multiple connectors on the LAPTOP motherboard use relatively high-power consuming "add-ons" and each internal slot or connector becomes a data transfer bottleneck. Face it...the future of personal computing is on the ARM-based "System on Chip" design philosophy. Windows Fan Bois are just pissed because Apple got to the Mass Market first and now has a mature product that they will continue to improve....all while some smart Windows laptop makers finally lurch towards there own versions.... 4 years behind.
They actually are turning a profit and stay pre-ordered out on many things for months. It's impressive how well they've done the last few years.
Also you know there's a RISC-V framework board coming right? And likey an arm one.
Damn that sticker has changed my perspective of you.
There's a bunch of stickers lol
imagine hating equality
I agree, I'm a huge fan of Metroid.
I wish Framework made a 10" or 11" version. I refuse to ever go back to a large "portable" computer. I currently use a 10" GPD Win Max 2 which is fantastic, but I'd love to support Framework instead if they made a similarly sized product with similar hardware specs (my Win Max 2 has a 7840U, 4TB SSD, and 32GB DDR5 7500 with a 67Wh battery).
I'm still on the sideline about Framework laptops; I like the idea, but the build quality and the type of components are not 100% where I would want it to be.
The webcam, speakers, screen, and those things should not be an afterthought if they want to compete in the premium laptop market; the whole casing should be something sturdy, make the whole thing aluminum or if you plan to use plastic, at least reinforce with some carbon fiber so it does not warp.
Aesthetically, there's still some work to do, those panel gaps on the 16" is just unacceptable around the trackpad. Why couldn't we get the modules at the back and just have standard USB-C ports on the side or if the modules needs to be on the side, at least make the USB-C ports on them align vertically on the laptop (currently they're not vertically centered). The cooling ports are off-center as well. It would drive me nuts seeing that every day.
These are currently deal-breakers for me and if I was in the market for a laptop, I would probably get another maxed out Dell Precision (the thin ones, not the bulky workstation ones) running Linux and run it for 10 years until it no longer works.
That said, if you're looking for performance, a desktop is still the best route. I think it's bizarre that people buy gaming laptops and then keep them at home with a keyboard, mouse and screen plugged in when a desktop would have been a cheaper more performant option.
The whole point is that you can put whatever port you want where you want it when you want it; and if I remember correctly, on the 16, the back is a module, but it's for things like GPU's and other larger modules.
I just noticed the LGBT sticker. Why am i not surprised?
Got friends I want to support
@@DMS3TV lmao, good going with the virtue signaling then.
@@rubenthekid when did positivity become a bad thing?
@@DMS3TVSupporting brainwashing children hokkay buddy
@@DMS3TVNothing positive about it. Did you see the opening ceremony to the Olympics. What a joke
Not a fan of inciting violence with that sticker 😬
Which sticker incites violence?
half of this guys youtube uploads are about transgender legislation, yeah i bet you dont like the sticker, we don't care man
@@DMS3TV The one with a firearm on it suggests using violence against those who oppose certain ideas or policies.
@@adriaanjelle (my previous reply failed to post it seems). Nope! I just believe in equal rights and I go to the range a lot. Simple as that.
@@DMS3TV Do you believe men should play in women's sports?
Speakers don't work on that Razer on Linux. The rest is fine. Kinda got disappointed with MiniLED local dimming contrast issues tho.
openSUSE. Thanks for the insight, the Framework will be my next laptop. I have an M2 MBA, and while it’s probably good for 99% of people, I’ve found it to be a headache for what I do. The battery is the only upside for me.