LSU at Florida with Pre-meet Hype 2-11-22 720p60 900K

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  • Опубліковано 28 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 132

  • @elisabethmorning3735
    @elisabethmorning3735 3 роки тому +98

    Florida is my favorite team, but dang they gotta get their judges under control. I have never been more shocked by a score than I was by Leane’s floor. Her last pass had a large obvious deduction. One judge giving her a 10 and another giving her a 9.95 makes a mockery of NCAA gymnastics. That being said, her triple full was one of the best I have ever seen, and her dance is gorgeous.

    • @regardzz
      @regardzz 2 роки тому +2

      guys how the hell is trinity 21st in the ncaa on the bars tho? that was crazy for me to hear, wouldve thought shes top 3 for sure lol

    • @elisabethmorning3735
      @elisabethmorning3735 2 роки тому +2

      @@regardzz I am guessing she had a major break in one of her meets. The scores are averaged to produce the rankings.

    • @jg-um8bd
      @jg-um8bd 2 роки тому +1

      @@elisabethmorning3735 i don’t think trin has fallen this szn but even if she didn’t fall that’s crazy she should be atleast too 5

    • @londonstewart2544
      @londonstewart2544 2 роки тому +1

      @@jg-um8bd she had a overhandstand vs Alabama and got a 9.700 so that’s probably what is holding her back, she’ll be top 3 in couple more weeks tho

    • @jg-um8bd
      @jg-um8bd 2 роки тому

      @@londonstewart2544 oh yeah! thank you i forgot abt that!

  • @elizabethconversano8367
    @elizabethconversano8367 3 роки тому +17

    AGAIN, I can’t Thank you soooo much for posting this . It’s the only thing I have to look forward to since I don’t have a TV.You made this ole Granny a happy camper ;)

  • @patchoulidance
    @patchoulidance 3 роки тому +43

    I love to see 10s, when given to perfect gymnastics, and I'm happy to see lots of them. I think Trinity Thomas' vault deserved a 10. I think Megan Skaggs is consistently underscored; her beam routine deserved a minimum 9.90, preferably 9.95. The amplitude in her leaps is superb!

    • @fayeraye
      @fayeraye 3 роки тому +11

      I definitely love everything about Megan Skaggs! She literally is always on fire and always underscored!!! Please give my girl the credit she deserves in her beautiful, consistent, amazing gymnastics! 😩❤️‍🔥

    • @cael0612
      @cael0612 3 роки тому +4

      Skaggs though is so underscored on every event!!!!!!!!! Florida at Georgia dang she was underscored there

  • @Mrsangeandbella
    @Mrsangeandbella 3 роки тому +16

    Wow, so fast! Thank you so much for your tireless work.

  • @jg1066
    @jg1066 3 роки тому +56

    One of the biggest issues with LSU and Florida scoring (and other NCAA teams let's be honest) is that they get huge scores during the regular season, and then when nationals roll around, the missed landings and form issues that were usually ignored, are deducted the way they should be. This is why these teams "falter" at nationals compared to their regular season scores, since they are used to getting away with getting high scores despite visible errors. I really hope NCAA scoring becomes more uniform. It's not fair to the athletes either to get this inflated confidence, when their scores would not be that high in reality. That being said, both teams really are amazing, the scoring just needs to change.

    • @izzye82
      @izzye82 3 роки тому +5

      THIS.

    • @lifebylencia
      @lifebylencia 2 роки тому +5

      been meaning to say this for DAYSSS. people were surprised michigan won but they continue to be at the top because they get real scores!

    • @remyramirezv
      @remyramirezv 2 роки тому +1

      PREACH

    • @Maria-dk2fv
      @Maria-dk2fv 2 роки тому +2

      I agree with you, but if there is a "polished"team, that is LSU, It is time they recognize their execution. That said, these judges are a mess... Perhaps they rush scores or want to please the audience.

  • @juliette2101
    @juliette2101 3 роки тому +38

    I agree with alicia, i feel like this year a lot of 10 are being thrown away to routines that are not quite perfect. I hope the judges will collect themselves otherwise big regional meets will just be ridiculous

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому +3

    Thank you so much for posting so soon!!

  • @duckey3681
    @duckey3681 3 роки тому +38

    I have sooo much to say about this meet. Let’s begin shall we…
    1. Beautiful leos for both team, but Florida’s really had me in awe.
    2. Trinity’s vault definitely should have been a 10.
    3. Haleigh’s vault form is literally textbook.
    4. Without naming names, a few of LSU’s bars and floor routines were clearly overscored.
    5. I’m so proud of Kai Rivers. She is having a good comeback season.
    6. A 9.875 on Megan’s beam?!?! I scored it as a 9.95. What did I miss??
    7. Well deserved 10 for Nya on floor.
    8. I know you all are going to drag Leanne’s floor score, so I won’t even go there.
    9. Also, since Trinity’s skill was already going down on the beam, is it really considered a fall?

    • @natascha_o
      @natascha_o 3 роки тому +8

      I think they deducted 0.3 on Trinitys Beam and thats accurate in my opinion because she completely slipped with her hands and went with her chest down on the beam while she grabbed the beam with her hands in a way that was not supposed. It was just obvious that she lost completely the control on the landing of that skill

    • @roselane6074
      @roselane6074 3 роки тому +1

      What was your opinion of McCluster and Dunne’d bar score? I absolutely do not know alot about scoring but it seemed high?

    • @duckey3681
      @duckey3681 3 роки тому +3

      @@roselane6074 both were overscored for sure.

    • @taylorburtis
      @taylorburtis Рік тому

      @@roselane6074 McCusker had an error, but they can redo the skill I believe without a deduction. (I think that is still accurate)

  • @karlishajames4394
    @karlishajames4394 3 роки тому +3

    Thanks for POSTING ♡♡♡ YOU ROCK ♡♡ I've been waiting on this competition 2 of best teams in sec.

  • @Katherine77129
    @Katherine77129 3 роки тому +74

    How the heck did Alyssa baumann get a 9.9 on floor when she blatantly stopped in the middle of a leap pass? Ridiculous

    • @matthewhines9787
      @matthewhines9787 3 роки тому +42

      The Gator chomp is worth .2 in bonus.

    • @sanny1896
      @sanny1896 3 роки тому +3

      I don’t know much about gymnastics scoring. What is the usual penalty for something like that? She repeated the skill so she wouldn’t miss the requirement. Is there a rule for how much they would have to deduct or is it pretty much up to the judges?

    • @jamesbagley2937
      @jamesbagley2937 3 роки тому

      @@sanny1896 0.5?

    • @natascha_o
      @natascha_o 3 роки тому +7

      well that was the only mistake i saw and it was not a big one. she didnt do her leap series, instead she did a little akward looking jump and i think they gave her 0.1 deduction for that. she repeated the leap series and it was great so accurate score in my opinion :)

    • @jamesbagley2937
      @jamesbagley2937 3 роки тому +9

      @@natascha_o it’s actually a big deduction. She would have got the deduction for starting a leap and not finishing it, as well as a massive deduction for lack of horizontal legs.

  • @lurking__lurker
    @lurking__lurker 3 роки тому +33

    I think Florida was the better team, but man did the judges give some gifts on floor. Nya’s 10 was pretty deserved, though

  • @matthewhines9787
    @matthewhines9787 3 роки тому +30

    OFFS Alicia and John do a whole segment about how there are too many 10s and routines should be differentiated...then spend the whole meet going "I saw no deductions. It should be a 10!"

  • @9N6-s2i
    @9N6-s2i 3 роки тому +47

    The floor judges were blindfolded during Florida’s routines

    • @robertonakazato8446
      @robertonakazato8446 3 роки тому +7

      Many small checks on landings and every score above 9.9. WTF

  • @andromeda331
    @andromeda331 3 роки тому

    Great meet! Thank you so much for uploading it! Great scores from both teams! Congrats Florida.
    Great bars from Olivia, Sami, and Savannah. Great vault from Nya, Sarah, and KJ. Great bars from Haleigh. I love her bars dismount. Great vault and floor from Trinity. Great vault, floor and beam from Kiya. Great beam from Rachel, Leanne, Leah, Christina, and Bridget. Great floor from KJ, Megan, Alyssa, Leanne, Sloane and Aleah. Especially Aleah's first pass. Congrats Nya on perfect 10! That floor routine was awesome!

  • @kirstyb90
    @kirstyb90 3 роки тому +32

    *How* are we giving Schoenherr & Edwards a 9.875 and KJ a 9.9 for their vaults, yet Dunne gets a 9.9 on her bars? I don't get it...
    Also, the dude in the middle of the Gator cheerleaders or spirit squad or whatever they're called (I'm not American) during their vault rotation is *the* ultimate hype man
    And yet again, the way Alyona whips her DLO bar dismount around bent at the hips kills me. Compared to someone like Trinity, who absolutely floats hers to the ground, it baffles me why they keep it in Alyona's routine.

    • @bethanymclean2136
      @bethanymclean2136 2 роки тому +1

      Skaggs and KJ getting the same vault score is just wrong period. I could see in a strict scenario KJ getting a 9.9 or a 9.925 but if you're giving KJ a 9.9 for a stuck, perfectly laid out YFull Skaggs should've been at least a 9.85 with the hop.

  • @mayrabonfante8162
    @mayrabonfante8162 3 роки тому +42

    This week's UF's floor scores were as bad as LSU's last week. Just like Alicia said, they need to be tougher in judging since we're seeing very different 10s all across NCAA (and there are clearly better 10 than others). The only scores I think were fair are Nya and Megan's since idk which score did Sloane got.
    Edit: i'm happy with Sloane's score (9.9 was also good for me)

  • @Gossipconnect_
    @Gossipconnect_ 3 роки тому +4

    Thank you 🙌🏾

  • @ranyahandley7030
    @ranyahandley7030 3 роки тому +1

    Thank you so much!!

  • @rachelhutto4539
    @rachelhutto4539 3 роки тому +9

    Honestly I feel like judges take a deduction for the whole team screaming and yelling 10 in their face 😂

  • @karlishajames4394
    @karlishajames4394 3 роки тому +10

    Sloan upgraded her vault!! They are getting ready for nationals!!

  • @EmmaJaworski
    @EmmaJaworski 3 роки тому +11

    I dont think people realize that there's literally no such thing as a 0.025 deduction, and the judges arent allowed to talk to each other and go "okay if i give a 10 and you give a 9.95 itll be the score we want to give." It doesnt work like that. So that literally means one judge for Trinity's floor routine saw no problem with her landing short and stepping forward on her last pass, which is a clear and obvious deduction.

  • @micstravels
    @micstravels 3 роки тому +2

    Thank you for the upload 👏👏

  • @tomasduarte6633
    @tomasduarte6633 3 роки тому +39

    Trinity's vault should've been a 10!

    • @yokiyoka9823
      @yokiyoka9823 3 роки тому +3

      And her bars!!!🔥🔥

    • @tomasduarte6633
      @tomasduarte6633 3 роки тому +4

      @@yokiyoka9823 and you know what, people will kill me for saying this, but her floor 2, even though she took a step forward it was controlled, and I'm in aw with her double layout

    • @kate9223
      @kate9223 3 роки тому

      True. Idk bout these Florida judges trin deserves these 10s

    • @Sunflower_vally
      @Sunflower_vally 3 роки тому +6

      @@tomasduarte6633 clearly you don't know much about gymnastics. You can take a controlled step but only depending in your pass, if its a front skill you step to the front if its a backwards skill you step backwards. Trinity under rotated and had to step forwards therfore she should get a deduction.

    • @rollingacrescreations8693
      @rollingacrescreations8693 3 роки тому

      What else is new? Why are judges so hard on her.

  • @TheMateusMarquess
    @TheMateusMarquess 3 роки тому +14

    All these years watching NCAA gymnastics and I never saw such overscored routine as Riley’s bar routine. Even a 9.75 would be high for that

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому +6

    LEANNE’S TRIPE TWIST WAS AMAZING

  • @kelseyLUVSnick13
    @kelseyLUVSnick13 3 роки тому +12

    Florida still should’ve won but I don’t think that’s real 198+ scoring. However, I still enjoyed the gymnastics. Thanks for posting!

  • @EmmaJaworski
    @EmmaJaworski 3 роки тому +15

    Overscoring isn't even the problem anymore. Its the inconsistency, of which the only good part is the scores kind of level out in the end since some routines are underscored and some are overscored. I really hope the NCAA brings in JO judges for the important meets like regionals and nationals. Girls doing near flawless routines are scoring 9.8's and then other girls are scoring a "perfect" 10 by doing a routine thats still pretty good but has several clear and obvious deductions that are visible from every angle and are things that even the casual gymnastics fans can notice. I love gymnastics and all the athletes are incredible but i really hate watching college gymnastics because of it. Its like the judges go into the meet already having picked the winner, and just put up random scores. Like i almost didnt bother watching this meet because I knew Florida would be overscored and win since they are at home.

  • @shanicesidacia1699
    @shanicesidacia1699 3 роки тому +14

    The 9.9 for Liv Dunne is still sus on bars

    • @roselane6074
      @roselane6074 3 роки тому

      Yea i truly dont know alot about scoring but im learning. Dunne and Mccluster bar scores seemed high????

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому +13

    I feel so bad for Sloan. She’s such a great gymnast, it just seems she was a bit off today 😕

  • @EmmaJaworski
    @EmmaJaworski 3 роки тому +8

    Soooo how did Baumann score a 9.9 when she completely botched a leap/jump series in the middle of her routine. That by itself should be a deduction, in addition to losing the amount of bonus tenths that it was worth. At least the LSU routines that were overscored by a tenth or so last week were still pretty good routines with nothing super obvious.

  • @LindaV.95
    @LindaV.95 3 роки тому +2

    Thanks!!

  • @kreyna15
    @kreyna15 3 роки тому +9

    I love Leanne but was that a 9.975 routine?

  • @KandeShack
    @KandeShack 3 роки тому +1

    Trinity is just such a beautiful gymnast!

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому +13

    I’m not going to even start to talk about Alyssa’s score on floor

  • @mahailanie7101
    @mahailanie7101 3 роки тому +7

    I love LeanneWong so much but her floor routine was overscored with a 9.975. She got some hiccups with her landings. I don’t get how that was a 9.975. I love her and not being negative just being real.

  • @aq1516
    @aq1516 3 роки тому +1

    thank you!

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому

    One of my favorite meets of the year!

  • @natascha_o
    @natascha_o 3 роки тому +13

    What a great meet! 🤩 I am so happy that sloane was able to finish strong :)
    But what the fuck was going on with those judges? Trinity should have got a 10 for that vault and KJ Johnson should have got a 9.50 for her vault. there were no visible deduction for those 2 gymnasts. On the other hand floridas floor scores looked a bit to high for me, especially Leanne and Trinity. great routines but not 9.975.

  • @abdallaha92
    @abdallaha92 3 роки тому +8

    Trinity Thomas deserved a 10 for that vault. And probably for the bars too. Like did she wrong those judges somehow? I am rooting for LSU BTW so not a homer or anything.

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому +7

    Way to get back things going for Sloane on floor!

  • @annaweeks4662
    @annaweeks4662 3 роки тому +14

    Those floor score for Florida were way too high. Maybe the judges sneezed during those landings.

  • @tracymartell9599
    @tracymartell9599 3 роки тому +14

    Def not a 198+ meet for florida.. hope the girls aren't getting their egos inflated :( sometimes it feels like the judges are only setting them up for a rude awakening later in the season

    • @Sunflower_vally
      @Sunflower_vally 3 роки тому +1

      Yeah, I really don't want what happened to them happen again, their post season last year was just a wreck.

  • @layray210
    @layray210 3 роки тому +7

    lsu's purple slippers are so stinkin cute!!!!!

  • @Jaycee1200_
    @Jaycee1200_ 3 роки тому +8

    The last 3 competitions I've watched the commentators are talking about the excessively high scoring, and I absolutely agree. A 9.975 for Leanne's floor?? 🧐 A 9.9 for Alyssa's?? 😒 Come on now...

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому +3

    Amazing beam from Kiya!!

  • @kate9223
    @kate9223 3 роки тому +4

    No way trin didn't get a 10 on Vault and bars, when will they give Savanna her 10 on bars?, Alyssa , Leanne beam deserve the high scores i see that they change leane beam routine and i like it, leah beam should be a 10,Alyssa floor id also give it a 9.9 even with the mistake her routine is still controlled, leanne floor is just beautiful probably the most beautiful triple twist ive seen this season, Nya's 10 uhmmm YES maam, Trin almost a 10 on floor if she only stick the last pass omg, ok sloan came back strong on floor

    • @natascha_o
      @natascha_o 3 роки тому +3

      I think they always deduct on Savannas UB routine becuase she finishes the handstand turn not right on top.

  • @juliette2101
    @juliette2101 3 роки тому +4

    Erh florida not facing the judges when saluting is driving me crazy, i hate it

  • @jamesbagley2937
    @jamesbagley2937 3 роки тому +24

    Yo Florida wouldn’t you rather win fairly than by winning almost by default with the mass home overscoring.

    • @kate9223
      @kate9223 3 роки тому +8

      Same with LSU with their overscoring Home meets

    • @jamesbagley2937
      @jamesbagley2937 3 роки тому +8

      @@kate9223 no way as bad as Florida mate

    • @caseypopper4302
      @caseypopper4302 3 роки тому +4

      @@jamesbagley2937 Were they overscored? Most definitely especially on floor. But I think they still would have won with more fair scoring for both teams

    • @jamesbagley2937
      @jamesbagley2937 3 роки тому +5

      @@caseypopper4302 I don’t think LSU were overscored comparatively to Florida. KJ’s perfect vault scored only a 9.900. Some of LSU’s floor routines were underscored too.

    • @caseypopper4302
      @caseypopper4302 3 роки тому +5

      @@jamesbagley2937 KJ’s vault was no more perfect than Trinity’s and she didn’t get a 10 either. You can also argue that both teams were overscored on bars except Trinity’s which arguably could’ve been a 10. Also you can say that Skaggs was underscored on beam. I think LSU was scored fairly on floor it’s just that Florida was definitely overscored

  • @adisenmcgee6414
    @adisenmcgee6414 3 роки тому +3

    ok, yes floor was overscored for florida, but you can't say that nya didn't deserve that 10

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому +2

    TRIN’S DOUBLE LAY WAS SKY HIGH

  • @katherinecarvajalcarvajal9406
    @katherinecarvajalcarvajal9406 2 роки тому +2

    Florida es muy buen equipo,,pero cada vez que compiten en casa es que se ganan los 10 puntos.

  • @samisfun868
    @samisfun868 3 роки тому +2

    TY

  • @pinkpanther1836
    @pinkpanther1836 3 роки тому +11

    These scores are getting more ridiculous by the week

  • @layray210
    @layray210 3 роки тому +8

    Leanne wong floor was most definitely NOT a 9.975 but ok.

  • @yuffduf
    @yuffduf 3 роки тому +1

    Digging the typo on the scoreboard for Forida.

  • @EmmaJaworski
    @EmmaJaworski 3 роки тому +1

    Is no one going to point out how Leanne stepped out of bounds when stepping into the corner for her first pass at 1:18:48? That alone plus her foot shuffle to break the jump connection in her 2nd pass and the huge step out of her third pass + front foot lifting up should have all been deductions. Instead she gets a 9.975. Like is it any more obvious that the judges show favoritism to former olympians and well-known elites?

    • @gavinadkins8914
      @gavinadkins8914 2 роки тому +1

      She didn’t step out of bounds, but yeah she should’ve got like 9.9

  • @a_2502
    @a_2502 2 роки тому

    How am I just now seeing Courtney McCool with LSU? Wonder when she joined

  • @Tgill122
    @Tgill122 3 роки тому +4

    This was such a good meet. Go gators! 🐊

  • @lifebylencia
    @lifebylencia 2 роки тому

    I think they may be trying to compensate beautiful technique and difficulty (particularly on beam, UB, and floor) with inflated scores. If that's the case then they just need to adjust the difficulty of some of these skills or add an artistry category like FS.

  • @EmmaJaworski
    @EmmaJaworski 3 роки тому +2

    Riley McCuskers bar score say what now?? Riddled with mistakes, that shouldnt have been higher than 9.7, and Megan Skaggs and Olivia Dunne shouldnt have been above a 9.8 cuz of their sloppy double layout dismounts.

  • @jodyhowes
    @jodyhowes 2 роки тому +1

    It looked like that hurt on beam from trinity

  • @pautizon8827
    @pautizon8827 3 роки тому +5

    Am I the only one that thinks LSU’s floor music is kinda all over the place?

  • @kate9223
    @kate9223 3 роки тому +5

    Both teams had their own mistakes but Florida is the better team tonight. These Florida judges gives better scores for LSU than LSU gives low scores to Florida in baton rouge.

  • @cael0612
    @cael0612 3 роки тому

    Nice to see LSU fixed the Leo problem

  • @cjinpa5713
    @cjinpa5713 3 роки тому +1

    The judges are ridiculous 🤦‍♀️ I’ll just have to suspend my belief that this is a competition and think of it as a two team exhibition for charity or something 😬

  • @Reicqadonna
    @Reicqadonna 2 роки тому

    I did not know Trinity’s classification was senior this year 😩

  • @warrenmcfarlane5679
    @warrenmcfarlane5679 2 роки тому

    Nice performance Nya

  • @matthewhines9787
    @matthewhines9787 3 роки тому +2

    Wow...I normally don't pay attention to the anthem(I'm a singer so it makes jealous lol) but this girl was just lovely. It was like watching Mackenzie Wofford on bars.

  • @YAUH07
    @YAUH07 3 роки тому +2

    Alligators like to beat Tigers and Tigers like to lose to alligators. Florida needs to improve if they want to win the NCAA this year

  • @cassiecobb7636
    @cassiecobb7636 2 роки тому

    hello

  • @matthewhines9787
    @matthewhines9787 3 роки тому +6

    WTH? Sydney Johnson-Scharpf is still competing? I swear some of these NCAA girls have to be on their 9th year of eligibility or something. Her, Kendall Poston, Ragan Smith, Q, Megan Skaggs, Cristal Issa, Jessica Yamzon...not that i mind because i love their gymnastics, but it seems like some of the girls have been around since the times we used chalk in floor choreography.
    Hi A.J. !

    • @kelseyLUVSnick13
      @kelseyLUVSnick13 3 роки тому +1

      Jessica Yamzon doesn’t compete anymore

    • @1GymFan
      @1GymFan  3 роки тому +8

      SJS was/is out recovering from surgery, lots of gymnasts got an extra year option if they were eligible for the 2021 season.

    • @katherinesmith9354
      @katherinesmith9354 3 роки тому +14

      Sydney Johnson-Scharpf is in her fourth (senior) year but she's out with an achilles injury. Kendall Poston is in her fifth (super senior) year which she is allowed because of covid. Ragan Smith is only in her third (junior) year. Cristal Isa is in her fourth (senior) year. Jessica Yamzon graduated in 2020.

    • @matthewhines9787
      @matthewhines9787 3 роки тому +1

      @@kelseyLUVSnick13 Sorry I typed Jessica Yamzon but meant Sarah Schafer.
      I had Jessica on the brain because I have been trying all day to find this one beam routine of hers where she had the wildest save.
      She did either a ring or sheep jump, came down crooked and started to lose her balance. Her right leg came up to try to counter the break and catch her balance. Then since her leg was up next to her arm anyway, she just caught her foot and pretended she was just connecting the "Y" scale to her sheep jump.
      It was flawless and hilarious at the same time.

    • @matthewhines9787
      @matthewhines9787 3 роки тому +2

      @@1GymFan Yeah. i think it's a good thing to give them the option. Again, I am not mad about it...it's just weird how your mind can play tricks on you and makes you feel like some gymnasts have been around longer than they have.

  • @taylorburtis
    @taylorburtis 2 роки тому +1

    Florida is DISGUSTINGLY overscored. I can’t even enjoy watching their meets anymore.

  • @kathy2539
    @kathy2539 2 роки тому

    Poor fan behaviour here. Gator fans rude to LSU performances. Polite applause should be encouraged for great routines but nothing from Florida fans, very rude, impolite, inhospitable or generous... don't like it, unimpressed.

  • @RickOshay...
    @RickOshay... 2 роки тому

    Alright... Kai Rivers should be disqualified for routine on bars...
    She and her dumb coach made contact on her routine @ 17:44...
    You're not to make contact with the athlete during routine...
    Then @ 18:15 he tries to explain it away... What a dummy....