How to Approach Figure Drawing (A Guide for Taking Proko Courses)
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- Stan gives advice to a caller on how to take his Figure Drawing Fundamentals course (and other Proko courses). Clip taken from season 1 episode 19 - • Tracing, Cheating, and...
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Podcast Description
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff. Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/Draftsme...
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokope...), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart...)
Production Assistance - Brandon Storer, Charlie Nicholson, Sean Ramsey (www.peoplewhodr...), Katrina Collins (www.katrinacoll...)
Editing - Charlie Nicholson, Katrina Collins
Audio Engineer - Brandon Storer
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
Intro Jingle - Tommy Rush ( / tommyrush )
Music Used with Permission Intro - The Freak Fandango Orchestra
Figure drawing fundamentals course - proko.com/figure
Are the bundles also available with the 20% discount?
*Hi proko! I draw every single day since years but still i am very bad at landscape studies even a single tree*
I remember it was so frustrating when I started with the gestures. I spent so much time on it and I didn't seem to progress that much. They always looked off. Only when I moved on and built up my skills in proportions and general observation/ analitical skills I could produce better guestures that were actually useful in creating an illustration.
Oh man, your comment was so helpful thanks, I'm so bad in proportions I'll try this.
This should have been mentioned in the Figure Drawing course. I questioned myself a lot about moving on, even though I wasn't supposed to overthink.
Good point - especially the idea that they are all intertwined - they are sequentially presented but I would have benefitted from hearing that they are not strictly hierarchical and are more interconnected.
"Focus on one leaf, youll miss the tree; focus on one tree, youll miss the whole forest"
-Takuan, Vagabond(manga)
Amen
Nice to see that quote again,
That quote quite linger in my mind from time to time
Nice to see some vagabond fan here.
I've found that if you're thinking "should I move on?" it's probably time to move on. You'll find out real fast if the next level or whatever is too hard and then you can always go back
I HEard the question and while im still watching the video i gotta put this input here.
watch the videos, do the assignment, move to the next, before the next set of videos and assignments do a warm up of what you've learned and as you go rotate out what you do for your warmup to get in practice of the skills you'e learned. Carry what you know on with you but don't stop just because your afraid or because you think your not good enough at it. I personally didn't feel comfortable with gesture until I learned anatomy because certain things in anatomy can help inform your gesture and so on.
Dude! Awesome suggestion! Use the last lesson as warmup... nice one!
U deserve a proko course
This is the best of both worlds - you get the big train of thought via the whole podcast, plus get to "revise" via these podcast snippets. I'm glad for these as there's so much stuff I would've forgotten about.
One thing I really like about Stan’s figure and anatomy courses is that they build really nicely upon each other. So when I finished the scapula lesson, I really didn’t get the scapula... but I redraw all of the diagrams he shows in each video and the basic form of the scapula is in almost every one. So by the time I get to the tricep lesson I’ve drawn like 40 pages of scapula drawings
I’m so glad someone asked this question. I got the fundamental pack and I was thinking the same thing and was like, “ So am I gonna do bean exercises for 6 months before I move to the next section of the course?”
I've been drawing for about 8 years, self taught, and I constantly have to go back and re-learn/re-study those fundamentals like line work, shading, proportions, ect. It never ends but you'll always get better as long as you keep pushing your limits.
Absolutely 👍🏿💯 correct
Yeah, I used to think it was you learn one thing then u move onto the next topic but a lot of this stuff takes years of relearning and sounding down to get.
Self taught, what do you mean by that. Not taking a course in person with a teacher and avoiding all books? Your watching Proko vids. I doubt your 100% self taught. Too many people wrongly throw that term around. The masters back in the day had no choice but to be SELF TAUGHT
@@deebonash4487 It means I never took a dedicated art course with a teacher guiding me. I used trial and error to learn based on looking at other artists works and photo references. I'm sure even those self taught masters you refer to used real world references and trial and error. How would you define self taught?
@@ninjason57 self taught would be no help, no books, no class. With trial and error. I get what you mean by that but even Stan and Marshal spoke how students need to becareful throwing the “I’m self taught” meanwhile you’re looking at tutorials and videos and other resources
Wow, and I spent more than one week on the video "How to draw gesture" from the "Gesture" part...
same
lol, I have watched Stan's videos so many times. I watch. Learn. Try to apply. Struggle. Improve a tiny bit. Go back. Watch. Now suddenly what he was saying makes more sense. Latch onto something else to learn. And repeat. It makes me feel better knowing that's how he expects us to learn.
This is the kind of thing that you should mention in your course. This has happened to me and I think also to many others taking your course. I literally spent more than 6 months just doing gesture drawing thinking it is not good enough to move on to the next. As you mentioned, it is imposter syndrome. I was trying to compare my gesture drawings to Prokos, which are like sky and ground apart in quality.
Tip from guy that wasted his 20 to 25 : instant gratification is pure evil. (what I will say now is my experience may not be the same for others)
All pleasure is the same for the brain deep down.
If you put 1 of work for 8 pleasure, and art or any skill training is 6 work for for 10 pleasure , even if is more fulfilling the other is a better deal. That is why is so hard to sit and do the work to improve , gym , art , music ,dancing , social skills, etc.
Do not underestimate social media, videogames, and food or sexual pleasures, they will feel good but if not manage will consume you. Respect importance of silence.
After the quiet you can listen better lower volume notes in music.
very true
Well said friend, great point
Im starting to realize it, and now I'm fighting the holistic urges you described above. Working on being a better draftsman
Word, definitely don’t abuse
...at first glance, a discussion like many others... well, I was shocked to hear fundamental truths on drawing teaching, delivered with utmost clarity... shocked, because in the many schools I've been working for in the US and Europe, the principles mentioned here are either distorted to caricature, or simply not mentioned...
...Extremely insightful...
My interpretation of what Stan is saying is it’s not a straight line progression, not a cycle returning to a starting point. It is a series of interlocking spirals of skill each being reinforced by those done before and those after. The spiral being a circular form emanating forward progression.
Marshall: "When it's too easy."
Proko: *_"And I took that personally..."_*
Yaay you did it! I'm getting back to learning the fundamentals and I find this and other episodes very useful for reminding me what I need to keep in mind while studying. Thank you guys!
Yeah I definitely agree that people should try various exercises to exercise your mind
What you said at 05:00 is my personal approach. I study from books and i never stay on a chapter for more than a few minutes. I try to understand as much as possible and then when i move on i ll understand another thing and when i re visit the chapter i ll understand something i missed the first time.
Anyone listening to these just have to love podcast. Great !
4:10 - Spend two weeks on each lesson before moving onto the next
9:46 - Basics course confirmed - but when will that be released?
Bout to cry with with tears of joy
This is so helpful
I have the same question too!!! And equally great response 💕❤️- when I practice the figure drawing construct, I move on to the next step when “ it looks right!”
Go forward eventually and keep filling the gaps
These two guys give such good general advice about strategy of learning
I have a close question to the one asked in the video. Everyone tells you, you have to learn fundamentals to start drawing. But when do I know I can start? I know that you have to constantly work on fundamentals as Stan already said. But as a beginner, when do I know ok now I can start & do splash illustrations or character designs or whatever
Well there are a lot of fundamentals if it's about character design you will need to understand form, perspective, color and more.. you can even multi task it.. while doing it, you figure it out
No one should stop you from doing splash illustrations or character design if that is what you want to.
Work on the fundamentals, but also work on things you want to do. There needs to be a balance.
If you want to do character design, find things specifically related to character design and build a self taught curriculum around them. Character design is linked to illustration. Do you want to design characters for children’s books, advertising, editorials, comics, animation, or some other illustrative work? Break down what, specifically, you want to do and go from there.
I think you just jump in and see what you can do with what you already know just remember to always push forward there will always be something you can work at improving. But like they said in the video complacency isn’t going to push you forward in art only trial and error will, you learn from the mistakes you make so if your wanting to start splash pages give it a shot see what you can do with what you know then if you feel like it isn’t where you hoped it would be just ask yourself why isn’t it where I wanted it to be and try to put a “little” and this is the key word “little” time on fixing whatever it is you feel is making your art not up to par with what you expect it should be just remember to keep moving forward don’t put all your focus on just correcting your corrections keep working on other things and keep drawing push yourself out of your comfort zone it’s the only way to improve if you remain fearless in art and keep trying other things I promise you will improve and you will prosper in the art world.
actually that part of the episode turnt into a life lesson
Eh... I allways find myself lasersharp working on something Big. And thats usually the stuff I lvl my skill. Like d'or example, i planned 15 pages for a comic, now i am at page 45, paneldesign, composition quick sketching, dramatic pose close ups. Drawing anatomy from every angle, consiste style Development.
Thanks so much for clearing this up, Stan!! I was indeed one of those goofballs who was doing beans forever because I thought I wasn't ready for the next step. For some reason I was treating art like math, lol.
6:36 People who think this is false or impossible that a writer need years to write the first line of a book, i just let you know that Flaubert did need 4 years for writing the first line of Madame de Bovary, and that why he is genius.
That’s a subjective statement. Not a fact
@@deebonash4487 Literally everything around you is subjectivism. There is no such thing as "absolute".
@@shadowdemon9043 and are you 100% sure, that your statement is the truth and no chance of being wrong?
Basic and difficult methods are always the most useful methods.
So it's like learning various part of figure drawing..and using all parts while drawing the complete art... ultimately going through all of them ..like they are interdependent on each other
Excellent video, well explained and thought out. Well done!
Oh.
Ive probably been on and off on the bean for two months or more now.
Then again I cant draw a lot.
Thansk Stan and Marshall.
So going through figure drawing course or any course is relative concept... every person will take different amount of time and approach depending on their current skill level and familiarity with the subject matter
Thanks, that was really helpful
Proko The Great
Draftsman best podcast
Thank you, this is a helpful thing to know
Good stuff. You should label, the videos, so that people don't stay too long on the same type of drawing , gesture, bean etc.
Stans gesture course is the best thing EVER on the internet. Wish Stan would do another.. and another.... new models.. maybe different artists teaching gesture. Never get enough.Unlike other people, I could care less about being a painter or doing fantastic art to sell... I just want to be GREAT at gesture drawing.
What's the point of getting great at gesture drawing if you're not using those skills to complete a more complete drawing?
nice to hear, cause if you spend too much time on the bean (like I did) it also starts to not be fun anymore...
this video was extremily helpfull! just what i needed, i was
struggling to understand how much time should i spend in each session. because im clearly still bad at it hehehehehe
I think people get stuck/confused on the Proko gestures because they are trying to draw them exactly like Proko. They’re copying what Stan is doing instead of understanding what it is they are looking at. If all you are doing is trying to copy lines you see in a reference, you’re missing the point. Gesture is-“what are the major masses of the figure doing and how can I interpret that on a 2D (or 3D sculpture) surface?” Are we looking down or up at the figure? Is it going away from or coming toward us? When I was taught gesture, the main focus in the beginning was to lightly block in the torso, find the angles of the shoulders/hips, and center line on the back or front of the torso and build from there. If you don’t know the orientation of the torso, the gesture is going to fall apart fast. If you are doing a gesture of the head--what are the jawline and ears doing? This all circles back to observation and understanding that you are rarely going to get it right with your first marks.
It's like during you eat your food ..it's not that you eat all the sweet items at once and then finish your spicy stuff ... It's better to switch between them and it taste better and balance each other...like eat spicy and your mouth burns eat sweet and it's good ..too sweet eat spicy and repeat the cycle till your tummy is full
From proko for proko. Kangaroo squad!!!
Well, just try to move quickly trough the books of Scott Robertson, you will see that you cannot. Not all contents are the same
I'm just on 2 minute gestures now and I hate it and im miserable. Very excited to not be terrible at it
“You're not just gonna do gesture for like a month and then never do it again - you're gonna be doing gesture for the next 20 years, for the rest of your life you should.”
- Grand Master Yoda Prokopenko
Hey, it’s Seneca.
Mindset by Carol S. Dwek
Awesome read 👏
I have a terrible habit of not knowing when to move on even if I know I need to.
"Zone of Proximal" development
I watched your videos on youtube. It seems like your teaching different methods for the same thing. Like you could use the gesture methode or use use manaqinization and so on.
It's been so long since I did the robo bean stuff. Moved on to drawabox instead of the Mannequinization exercise based on RadioRunner's curriculum. I really should put in more art hours.
muy bueno
Can i get some help with the phone number for draftsmanshow inbox? Ive tried calling but it tells me the number is incorrect (numbers in my country are usually made out of 10 digits) thanks in advance!
If you're having trouble calling in you can record your question and then email it to support@proko.com.
Cool video..... 🌹
Can i get the reference picture for the sketch shown in the thumbnail?
Did you watch the Beavis And Butthead episode where they went to Figure Drawing Class? 😛
Bro i spent 6 months on gestures 😐
Hmm. 2:00 But this kind of .. mindset.. is what is practised in industry like construction or oil and gas.. where they took say, a project management certificatiion.. with some predefined test, of course.. where suddenly they are “masters”.. and then when they return to real life rarely they bring projects timely and within budget. Some are even trainers after attending these certifications.. so they are masters of the certification training material but not to the real world application where other people’s money matters.
And we also have people with no certification, only battle proven experience, who knows what they’re doing, ending up as subordinate to the above guys because that certification is the “proof” of the mastery. And these certifications are expensive, very. Even if it needs to be validated every 2 years or so. So it becomes industry of it’s own.
wits he oan about ffs...............
After a year now I am able to draw faces with pencil only, the reason I am saying pencil because I can eares it. Now I want to try charcoal but afraid of doing mistakes which is not earesable, like if I want to try with pen.
I am thonking what if I continue with pencil untill I get confidence to go for charcoal, please advise thanks.
That's not a bad way to build up to where you're comfortable with your art tool. Try using your pencil and not the eraser and build up your confidence with it.
Every medium is different, so you'll have to learn how to use each one. But getting some confidence in your mark-making will help a lot.