Anti Falco Laser Technique - Super Smash Bros. Melee
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
- Super Smash Bros. Melee Falco - Kira goes over a technique used to beat Falco lasers in this video.
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10 years ago: Don't get hit.
Now: Just get hit.
Sometimes getting hit is a great option in this game. Take laser, crouch cancel, etc. And likewise, sometimes NOT hitting your opponent is better than hitting them.
Nah, Isai was still correct. Power shielding would be the ultimate counter, but not everyone can be Godlike on demand like Isai. So we will take the hit.
The difference between Falco and Fox is that as you get better and learn more about the game, you start to see that all of the things you thought were broken about Falco actually have glaring weaknesses and all the things you thought had glaring weakness about Fox are actually broken.
Good tutorial Dave!!! To all people reading this comment, be sure to also SmashDI the laser for extra positioning. Works especially well in the air.
PewPewU you're a legend, Kevin Toy
I really appreciate how helpful you are to the Smash community! No other pro. puts in anywhere near the effort you do into sharing knowledge about the game.
+12345sebster No prob my man, its what I love to do :)
Could you make a video on the Sheik match up? Aside from "Hey if they're in the air don't let them down and you win" I think a lot of people struggle in the match up as marth and I know there isn't as much percent follow up info in this match up as opposed to space flow charts
DISCLAIMER: Doesn't work in real life. Last time I tried to just "take laser", The action I performed after was being driven to the Emergency Care Unit.
Jackal VonStone thats sad u.u
It only says anti "Falco lasers" technique
Wait, Anti is getting into Melee?!
Kappa
10/10 would read yt comments again.
R.I.P. JV's
Lasers don't count
lasers should definitely count. Otherwise any characters projectile shouldn't count. just because leffen said they don't count one time doesn't mean its a fact. A JV is with 0% and lasers do percent
Namnam54 Falco laser does.
Michael Nah they shouldn't because literally every other projectile in the game can be hit or caught and have a certain range. Lasers are can't be hit or caught and the have an infinite range so they can travel the entire stage. So yeah
Saint Shaden can't you shiek needle lasers?
1:25 - If you get hit by just one laser the rest become stale until your opponent dies
is hitstun the same as crouch for asdi down?
Doesn't it unstale after they use 10 more attacks? I thought there was a 10-move queue that considers staling.
+pyrox1s
9*
what kind of falco throws out 10 moves without lasering at least once O_O
when you get caught in a 10 hit combo obviously
Getting hit by lazers = Lots of skill
TeeTaw It's smarter than limiting your options by normal shielding/jumping every single time
Hreesto I know, im garbage myself, im just joking
How to beat falco lasers: Before you plug in your controller, hold l or r (whichever you use to shield) all the way down. Plug the controller in, then your trigger that you held down becomes digital (no light shielding, but it will instantly full shield once you click your trigger in). Use the digital input to powershield the lasers, and just practice that. While difficult, getting it consistently will help you out. Just don't do this to often, otherwise you can get grabbed right after shielding against a good falco that knows what you are trying to do.
This video will accomplish 1 of 2 things with midlevel Falco's (which is 90% of them). Either their laser game getting destroyed will cripple them mentally and the rest of them switch to Fox, or they'll realize Falco is meant to play off of mixups to and that losing Lasers isn't the end of the world as you don't really lose them you'll just have to not be stupid.
as a falcon main, this is super important. thank you.
*cries in falco main
0:52 But the falco would most likly be moving forwad with the short hop laser ?
Thanks, Kira. As a Marth main, this really helps
Laser camping Falcos are fairly easy to deal with once you've put some practice into the strat
The _real_ most annoying character to deal with in the game is a stalling Jigglypuff or Wall-out Shiek
great guide! as sheik my current biggest weakness is when falco does laser into whiff drill with ambiguous drift. it feels too hard to whiff punish and it blows me up for being aggressive out of laser while also not giving up space
"Is a laser spamming falco annoying or are people complaining about it just too lazy to learn how to deal with it?" Is that a call out to Bob Thunder? lol
I am not kidding when I say everyone is wanting to counter Falco so badly lately.
SgtTreecko well, at low/mid level playing Falco is free wins
I like to use Ganon's down B to get in close to a campy falco when they laser (by taking the laser during the down b).
I think laser-Falcos are the most annoying and the best character at a low level. I'm not sure if it's people being lazy, but I do think recently there's been a lot more very helpful anti-falco guides (this one, for example) after you get past that I'd say the most annoying is probably... I dunno, Peach?
why does Kira keep exposing my main
Gio cause ur main sucks
@@eggloaf4055 Alright ill switch to puff then
@@Non-disjunction just wait until they release the guide on avoiding puff lasers
laser camping falcos are annoying whether you know how to play a against it or not. and this is coming from a Falco main
Matthew Villanueva No offense but saying "this is coming from a Falco main" only invalidates your opinion to most people cuz it shows you don't know what it's like to be laser camped
CP Adagio I think laser camping is annoying in Falco dittos. I also play falcon
CP Adagio I think you forgot about falco dittos
Falco dittos. It's that terrible accident that happens when you misspelled Falcon dittos, the glorious man-matchup for cool heterosexual males. Still not as bad as Falco vs Jiggs, but nonetheless somehow worse-still than Jiggs dittos.
laser camping falcos are annoying whether you know how to play a against it or not. and this is coming from a Kirby main
I don't think they're lazy, they just shield every time and never think to just take it
What if you can powershield consistently
Will Kinsella Powershield the majority but when they catch on use the take laser strat. It's worth learning for mixups.
GG Its Riven Pretty much this. Take laser is just another way to respond to lasers, just like powershielding, and you want to have as many options at your disposal as possible.
Will Kinsella what If Falco switches the timing on the lasers
+Sergio Calderon González Reacting with a powershield can actually be a thing though. Instead, change the timing just a bit by using laser height, because the shield's hitbox is a circle.
Jack Lant never thought about it, thanks
take laser blank is really hard when falcos know how to mixup their laser timing and movement in neutral. but effectively implementing those mixups has a higher skill floor than an opponent's counterplay options against lasers.
wow i never even considered taking the hit always tried playing around it. Thanks so much for this tutorial.
This is amazing, I thought the only answer was to powershield them
420 views, 42 likes and 0 dislikes...
this vid's gonna be lit
F I R E B I R D 4 2 0
Me: "Oh yay new video! I wonder what this anti-laser tech is"
Kira: "Get hit by lasers"
Thanks, now PPMD will never return cause of this :'(
wow Kira! calm down buddy. my falco and I are trying to win locals out here and you ain't making it easy. lol
The most annoying thing to me doesn't have as much to do with character as it does behavior, and camping doesn't necessarily annoy me at all. If anything I respect proper camping and appreciate good defensive gameplay. What's the most annoying thing to me is people going for strategies where the focus doesn't seem to be about winning the match at all, but getting damage in whatever way seems like the easiest for them. I'm not talking about strategies that are actually good, they're giving you free openings and positioning when they perform them, but the strategies just push towards less complex and less interesting interactions, or the idea behind the strategy is actually to be annoying. I'm talking about the guy who picks fox, and does standing laser at the start of every match after you've run across the stage and killed them at the start of every match, and they are apparently just unable to process that these events are somehow related, or they just don't care. I'm talking about the guy who spams uptilt on shield even though he gets shield grabbed for it every time and dies, or gets hit by a smash attack because he just expects you to run into it, because he just can't get the message. I'm talking about the Falco that shoots 3 lasers in place and gets tippered out of his jump for it, the guy who doesn't know what the shield button is and tries to cc everything, and then dies of the bottom trying to mash a button out as a result. It just doesn't feel like you're playing another person, it feels like you're playing a low level CPU where they changed the moves they throw out to either be a little harder to avoid, or a little more dangerous if they actually connect.
Dumbing down the game can actually be fun, like intentionally playing a match with someone without dash dance or wavedash at your disposal, and intentionally limiting your options (hopefully) forces you to use the ones you've limited yourself to better. But people like these... It feels like they're looking for simple strategies with low risk and low effort, or that might beat lower risk strategies, but are actually poor at it and get countered by other strategies of similar descriptions. Hard. Maybe similarly, they don't want other people doing things they find annoying, maybe the Fox lasering just doesn't want someone to camp him, but it doesn't seem to stop him from doing it when you run up and hit him every time. Maybe the uptilt spammer wants some insurance against Falcons stomping out of shield or getting dash dance grabbed. Doesn't matter that timing and spacing let these beat their strategies anyway, or if you do anything else that explicitly punishes the action, or that you can cc it twice and still punish them at zero, they'll keep doing it in any context, just because. Maybe the perpetual crouch canceler doesn't want to deal with spacing or timing that beats a shield grab, so they just hold down, but they don't seem to learn it doesn't work vs. meteors, spikes, multi-hit moves, grabs, projectiles, or just stronger moves that knock them away, they all just seem to keep doing the exact strategy that loses to whatever you're doing while limiting the number of interesting interactions that might happen or the amount of fun anyone has from the game itself.
TL;DR People who don't adapt or keep doing strategies that even if easy to beat, more or less limit the amount of interesting interactions or otherwise make it feel less like you're playing a real person. It doesn't have to be the only thing they do in the game, just something they do continuously in the same contexts, or do in contexts that are obvious (and even obviously bad), and don't seem to realize that it doesn't work. Of course it's not always annoying sometimes it's just boring. Sometimes it's hilarious.
so I'm thinking about doing 100 pushups 100 squats 100 situps and 10km run everyday or 100 wavedashes 100 chaingrabs 100 l cancels and 10km dash dance. Which one should I do I only have time for one routine
Well this is assuming that the Falco will do an ariel after the laser, a good Falco should know to mix up grounded moves since you don't waste time in jumpsquat. I use laser jab and laser grab all of the time.
So it might be a good idea to try to avoid damage, but don't get so defensive that Falco can totally destroy your rhythm
I know this video is 7+ years later, but should I try this stuff while using Bowser?
Awesome videos! Please do a how to beat Peach tutorial !!
why couldn't i discover this back when i went to tournaments (TдT) i lost to every falco that could shop laser. maaaaaan
You can make a video on how to record your matches or to stream on PC, the process you need to follow, a list of the equip you need, the budget you need and all that stuff, im sure a lot of smashers like me will apreacciate that. Thanks for your videos man they help a lot, SO from Mexico
Top Nuisances in Melee:
-Wobbling
-Falco Laser Spam
-Chain Grab
-Falcon Knee Spam
-People who complain about Wobbling, Falco Laser Spam, Chain Grabbing, and Falcon Knee Spam
I play Falco but I hate being laser heavy , it honestly is all when to laser and I prefer more Aggressive Ariel approaches, it allows you to practice better openings than just a laser to an easy setup , this way it makes it easier to be more versatile against different / stronger opponents
Falcos lasers are quite high idk if some of those moves would work like raptor boost if the falco was shooting lower lasers
Plz Falco floaties combo tutorial
Awesome stuff.
Here's how I personally deal with the counters to lasers for other falco mains. First off in the demonstrations at 0:25 you don't want to be in that range and laser like that. Typically falco has the edge when you're right in your opponents face or when you're far away. But when you're in the middle right within marth's grab and fair range that's a bad position and you don't want to laser like that because you're in a bad position before because how long it takes for laser to come out and because of how you're put in a bad position anyways even if the laser comes out and lands. But let's say you lasered and marth dashed away or wavedashed back and you end up in that situation.
0:25 with the dash back. Dash forward and laser beats this unless they do a very short dash back and a pivot grab. it also beats shield up because it goes to shield pressure. dash forward and using aerials (basically overshooting beforehand) are also good because it wins against dashback and sometimes shield as you may land behind your opponent based on spacing. if you use nair at midheight you can beat shield without landing behind since you can do fast fall straight to shield pressure. Another way to escape would be to full hop to waveland back (if there is a platform above you) and you should slide off the platform and you can land with a laser or something. You can also try full hop to waveland forward and fall through the platform onto your opponent. These 2 things will let you escape from almost all options. Dashing back yourself, wavedash back, and retreating laser may also let you escape
0:32 The forward smash can be beaten (as well as other aerial out of hitstun) by just wavedash back or shielding. If you shield it may be important to tilt your shield towards them. If your close enough so that if you roll and end up behind them that is good since you can punish with a shine or something. If you do shield then wavedash OoS is good (OoS= out of shield if you don't already know). Is good after the fsmash. If your very close to him then dash back and wavedash back isn't good as you will end up within his tipper range. If there is a platform above you it may not be wise to try to land on it since you might get hit before you get there and marth's attacks hit through a lot of platforms.
0:34 dash attack at that range will only work if you move backwards. In that situation while the marth is running at you he's either going to attack or grab. attack can beat beaten with simple shielding (and shine OoS if it's dash attack) and usually both grab and dash attack can be beaten with a roll behind him (if he's out of DD range and he ca't dash back to catch your roll). You don't want to keep running since marth's run speed if faster and you will get caught. full hop is alright but may put you in a bad position where you have to land.
0:37 Dashing under nair can be beaten with an inplace dair which is very ballsey because you kinda need a read on the dash under nair. If you get a laser from that distance there's really no reason to just jump in though. in place nair also beats it or any attack in general.
0:39 everything said here is very true so remember that if you corner someone near the ends of the stage or if you get cornered that the best thing to do or what your opponent will most likely do is tank the lasers.
0:53 This is why it's a bad idea to mindlessly jump in when you land a laser at that distance even if you land. Once your laser is over you are both basically just standing there while marth is in his grab distance, aerial distance, and can DD out of every aerial of yours distance. Dair right there is very dumb as oppose to nair without a dash under nair read or something
1:55 In these situations it's almost always better to dash back to avoid getting hit as 75% of the time they will try to hit you with a dair or fair while landing.
1:58 That wouldn't have landed if that last laser was low. Be wary once they CC your laser from that distance since they will usually try to wavedash in.
2:01 To hit a dashing shiek you have to shoot your lasers low. Other than that just DD around the Downsmash. Shielding is also very good since most shieks will try to dash attack you. This is a 50/50 since they can also grab your shield. CC the dash attack is also good
2:06 Another example of why you don't want to run in. This may be good however if you know your opponent will shield and you're looking to grab them. Also when your opponent is moving between your lasers be ready to intercept them with your attack.
2:15 There wasn't much of a reason to dair unless you thought he was gonna uptilt and your looking for a trade, or you think you have a read on an aerial or fsmash and the timing. From that distance expect a defensive counter after the laser.
Also note that if your opponent shields the laser, expect them to try to hit you OoS. Based on if they like to swing or grab a lot in the neutral or in close quarters. That will usually determine how they act once they are laser.
SSG SAX GAMER 1:55
you suggest letting them come back down, but I was always under the impression that hitting marth or sheik in the air while they were falling down puts them in enough hitstun to follow up with another move. my b if I'm wrong, but I thought that's one situation where falco can capitalize on their inability to come down safely from an opponent
Bangibang I should've made my comment more clear.After dashing back you want to dash back towards them. (so basically a single dash dance) to avoid the attack and hit them. Be sure to be careful about the mixup because after you do it a couple of times they might wait out the DD and then send out their aerials
YES
I can't seem to get my CPU to replicate what's shown in the video. On regular CPUs they will approach with SHL but switch to FSmash when close. If I set it to Stay or Stay+Attack it won't be effected by the R+DPadRight. Any suggestions?
this def can work, But falcos can actually do an aerial before falling if they are good enough
Just wavedash back or dash back if you they are jumping towards you, since most likely they'll be going for an aerial.
I have taught myself to do this, but this video is much more helpful. Thanks!
Bob thundahhhh
Is this preferable to powershielding? Or is it better because that's less realistic?
Preferable because of the window for power shielding is much harder, and if you mistime your power shield it hits your regular shield which leads to more shield pressure.
nah powershielding is definitely superior, but it's a lot harder toperform and I think a lot of times it's not even possible to react to the laser fast enough to get one.
According to Hax$, it is definitely react-able most of the time and that once people start getting really good at it Falco loses that "gimmick". At the same time though PPMD believes it's a mix up because the timing for high, mid, and low lasers are all different. It's on the Falco to mix up the laser height to make it substantially harder to power shield if people actually start getting consistent at it.
yeah, but "most of the time" exclude exactly the scenerio in which just taking the hit becomes a good option: when there's not much distance between you and falco.
Someone recently pulled a bunch of data and found that the average punish off eating laser is considerably higher than landing a power shield. So not only is it harder to do, but people tend to punish less off it.
You decide which is better.
Falco wii become unviable now that we've discovered a way to deal with lasers.
these guides are awesome! thank you!
If you are in a campy Falco situation in a local or tourney scenario, you cant learn on the spot (unless you are god at adapting).
For everyone complaining in the comment section, this knowledge has been mainstream for mid level players since PP popularized it in like 2014. This guide just brought it to lower level players. The matchup probably will be just the same lol
There's so many more levels after shooting a laser
OR
Do the m2k which is dash attack before they get their laser out. Is a gewd option
Also can we call this "the leffen" instead of take laser
Thank you.
the most annoying is a campy fox when you're a floaty. it seems hopeless.
Yes
thank you needed this *thumbs up*
i main mario/dr mario , and i would like to get better , no one has a melee character analysis for him , could you guys please do one ?
Cyril Clark watch the doc trials on UA-cam
R.i.P westballz signing out
Hey Kira,
I doubt you actually read every single comment, but I guess I'll try anyways. Is that complete guide to sheik's needles coming anytime soon? :P
Thanks for the videos by the way. By far my favorite smash related channel! Keep up the great work!
we were working on it with KirbyKaze but smashers are hard to keep accountable
Hey! Great video! I am wondering about Ness. A 'Are You a Ness Player?' would be really helpful. Great job!
if you just kill the falco you don't have to worry about lasers
Can you do a "Are you a young link player?" Video?
Falco Mains: Free damage anytime yay! No seriously, I'll just Laser backwards from now on.
Please do a Roy tutorial. I main Roy and I need to learn some new stuff.
watch lunchables and leffen's recent highlight vid. Kira doesn't play roy
im a captain falcon main and i would like if you could help me with falco lasers and falco lasers out of ledge, cuz im trying to nair after getting hit but it mostly trades and trade is not enough
thankyou!
marth take laser fair = my entire gameplan against falco
Notification squad on point, love ur stuff, keep it up!
0:49
Luigi says hi
i have 20xx 4.05, the falcon cpu in slot 2 with the command doesnt make him do the lazers, any otherway to practice it?
i mean every falco that has been playing for more than 2 matches would know to space their aerials depending on the character but ok
With all the smash di and now this, isnt falco becoming less good on the tier list? More and more stuff to counter him and he gets combo'ed bij everyone?
HEY what about laser grab? Or even laser shine? That's gotta be like the easiest grab setup itg! Not trying to complain, just would like to hear some feedback on how to deal with lasers when he just bomb rushes you with them and either forces you to roll or grabs you
with peach can i practice dashing out of lasers? :o
Take Laser > F-Tilt or U-Tilt as sheik is good
Whyyy Kira? Were struggling out here after they get lucky ass powershield grabs!
Heard it mentioned the other day by Lucky I think, that you can light shield if you hit z at the same time you L cancel. He showed an example with Fox vs. Peach. Could you possibly do another video showing situations where this can be used? Also great video, I find I'm terrible at power shields so I just take the hit and run in lol.
fun fact, you can actually l cancel with the z button to skip a step here
Better tech to deal with lasers : dont deal with lasers
Its not just that falcos lasers are annoying, its the fact that someone is spamming a move that is annoying.
I feel like a dash-dance camping marth is more annoying than a spammy falco
Take laser turnaround uptilt: the leffen
What would be the best take laser option for Doc? Or would this not help him at all?
where can I get a good version of 20xx to practice?
(I could understand why you missed it) any young link examples?, I'm a young link main
THIS *ONE* TRICK WILL HELP YOU INCREASE YOUR WIN RATE BY 100%
FALCO MAINS *HATE* IT
does this falco loop thing work with a newest 20xx version?
What's falco's Counter Play to Take laser? [how do you shoot effectively safe lasers?] {what ranges can falco do what?}
watch what action they do after the laser and counter it
kinda hard to answer without pages and pages of notes but thats the basics
ah ok i would love to see a video on this, or these pages and pages of notes ;] (if they exist email me them at conti124@gmail.com)
try looking up squid's falco guide on his twitter or reddit. or reading his ask.fm
and people wonder why wes doesn't laser 90% of the time
we don't have to deal with this if we all become Fox mains then we don't need to fite Falco
how come the falco isnt short hop lasering?
please do a ness tutorial
Can you counter a counter laser as Falco?
what if you're character is slow and in the other side of the stage? is it better to try and shield then
(I play samus for reference)
depends. You can wd out of shield between lasers, jump to a platform, jump towards center stage, or just keep taking the lasers
What about vs a good spaced approaching laser into an aerial? Where taking the laser puts you into the 11/12 frame hitstun in which the falco gets an aerial for in that hitstun frame time. Is it better to shield?
Just leaving the ground after pressing jump wastes 4 frames for Falco. Unless he's right in your face where you could've punished the laser anyways it really doesn't matter. The point of lasers is to mix up using them and doing other actions to keep your opponent on his toes, they basically never give guaranteed openings.
if the laser would true combo into something then yes its better to shield? but that initial laser would have to be very close, might be better to interrupt that laser
thanks kira :'v you save me
Would the same thing go for Falco dittos? (Probably a dumb question :p)