MIke, as a Pan America owner I'm always looking forward for new content on your channel. Please, keep up the excellent work. Your videos are entertaining and instructional at the same time.
Great video man! Your videos are the most useful vids on UA-cam for a PA owner. I can't thank you enough! I changed my OEM battery out with an Antigravity battery back in late September, 2021 because, (IMHO) it just couldn't handle the load. Nearly a year and a half later and 15,000 miles and I haven't seen a single code. Before the battery swap, just sitting in the garage for a week going through the ride modes with the engine off might run it down and cause a bunch of codes. Good on HD for that update.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannelYeah, I'm in Tennessee so not too cold maybe 40.. But I saw some posts that says running the headlight for a minute or two will warm it up enough to operate normally. But I don't have any first hand experience below freezing. No issues at all when I have rode at 40 or left the bike outside in the cold overnight..
Hey gang! I just found this channel by someone that posted this video on the forum. I swapped to the antigravity battery and have not had the bike struggle to start after sitting in the cold. Longest I’ve had it sit was two weeks in January, the weather was in the 30s during that time.
Would it be possible for one of you gents that have had success with the anti-gravity battery to put the exact name, amp hour etc. on here so I could give it a try, would sure appreciate it. This last update made a substantial difference but I would really like to boost starting volts that plummet after motorcycle checks everything.
very interesting and well done. and a big thanks to all the other pan american riders i see commenting and participating its a big help to us guys that dont have one yet as well...thank u all
Once again Mike you upload some great information, thank you! I'm not a social media person so I just paid 65 dollars for the year subscription. I've had my PanAm back 2 weeks now after this latest bcm/ecm update and there are still a few non starts, but no codes yet knock on wood. Your right about low volts. I've noticed a big difference at crank up making my screen dark.
Yeah I have to agree with earlier comments, I just got a Pan Am last week and love this kind of content. I always prefer doing my own work so this kind of knowledge is key these days. Also that one code description "Signal plausibility failure" I'm using that on my wife the next time she says something that doesn't make sense to me......
Yep. I'm a truck driver, and when I start up bike when I get home,....Christmas tree. But like you said, once I get to the gas station and start the engine after fuel up. All good. I have a trickel charger, but I'm too concerned about it being on for weeks at a time. p.s gunna take bike in for this update also. ✌️
Subscribed, thanks Mike. I had a 50 degree start up this morning in southern AZ and it threw the check engine light. It was cold weather related it seems. ECM P214900P & U228700P Both cleared and I should try to stop by HD before warranty expires to hopefully get the software update. But thank you, and I'm from Duluth for all the 50 degree cold haters but I think that was it
since getting current with updates, I've had zero issues with cold starts as low as mid 20s F. I do need to let the engine warm up about 45 seconds or so before taking off, otherwise the engine stumbles and sometimes stalls. I just start the engine before putting my helmet and gloves on, that's usually enough time.
The best way to get rid of those trouble codes is to get rid of that bike. That was my solution. I gave it a year, constant back and forth at the dealer. I really, really like the bike too. It needs a few years refinement. I hope H-D continues to work things out.
Had 2 PA, a 21 & a 23, on both I got more codes and had to delete them more times then using the turning switch… had several breakdowns with both bikes, got tired and sold them, bought a BMW GS ADV again… I am done with HD
Mike, yes, most of the codes that get thrown are bogus. They are in-fact thrown due to startup voltage drops across the circuit cards (which are very sensitive) and the primary culprit is the bike's AGM battery. Harley-Davidson engineers should have used a lithium-ion battery on the Nightster, the Sportster S, and the Pan America; period. An AGM battery does not have the cranking amps required for engine start AND all the fricking computers on-board. I have owned both the SportsterS (2021) and the current Pan America Special (2023) and both bikes have thrown these bogus codes at startup... most of them comms errors between the various modules. Again, this is NOT because anything is actually wrong, but because the startup created a critical voltage drop (or voltage spike) on the computer cards. If they had used a Lithium-ion battery this would not be happening. Changing the firmware to NOT report these types of codes is sketchy at best, because rather than getting false positives, we may not get actual errors reported depending on conditions. The real solution here is to use a Lithium-ion battery rather than the AGM, or use a larger AGM battery with better voltage filtering on the modules. By the way, the technical service manuals are available for these bikes; so you can look up the codes directly from the current book... but, warning alert, they are very pricey. marcus
The other major bike manufacturers all come with AGM batteries from the factory and none share this issue, so it's not a battery chemistry issue. It's HD's poor engineering of the electrical system combined with lack of testing to identify the issue prior to launch. I'd suggest looking at LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) as well. Advantages over Li-ion are numerous: up to 10x the cycle charge life, don't degrade at high temps like Li-ion, holds its charge longer, doesn't heat up during charge/discharge, and is incombustible meaning even short circuiting it won't cause a fire or explosion. They weigh more than Li-ion (but still less than AGM) so most people just skip them for Li-ion if they're switching from AGM but the other benefits are significant.
@Pyrrho_ , other mfg does not have the issue because OEM don't use the tech of the Rev Max. Of course everyone uses AGM... but, you're comparing apples and oranges. Neither here nor there, HD fixed the firmware, and the tech no longer posts the bogus codes at startup. marcus
@@markh.harris9271 What special tech does HD use? It’s just another DOHC liquid cooled v-twin. The VVT is hydraulic, not electronic. Old style cable clutch. It may be high tech compared to older HD models but I don’t see anything special compared to Ducati, BMW, Aprilia, etc. It’s a first-gen product in a field of competitors that have been doing this sort of stuff for a lot longer.
@Pyrrho_ , you've got to be kidding? ... about six computer boards (modules) INST1 RHCM LHCM ECM BCM HYCM These boards are very sensitive to voltage spike... which occurs during startup; hence, the bogus codes on start. The firmware was changed so that comm errors between the boards (caused by voltage drop, or spike on start) will not be posted... and the spike will not interfere with the stater (ECM BCM error) which would otherwise cause the 1250 whine. My SportsterS had the same issue... also fixed. My Pan America Special (2023) was already corrected by the time I purchased it... both run beautifully now; still using AGM Batts. marcus
@@markh.harris9271 My BMW R1250RS has _eight_ separate control units talking with each other over its CAN bus, nine if I lived in the EU and had the "SOS" telematics module fitted. Again, what "special tech" is HD using that should warrant consideration? This is IMO very much an apples-to-apples comparison, as these are both major brand, top tier, 1250cc DOHC liquid cooled twins w/VVT, sold for similar MSRPs. Both using CAN bus with a main body/vehicle electronics controller paired with a primary ECU module for the engine, with additional modules used for features such as ABS, instruments, etc.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannel my dealer said just give them an hour heads up and bring it when convenient. Knock on wood my late 22 has only given me one ARH lockout and a couple codes in 800 miles.
after 9k miles? l wonder if PA owners would actually feel comfortable taking this "adventure bike" around the world. I know other companies like bmw get things wrong too, but then there's usually a product recall to fix a potential problem for good (forks and transmission shafts come to mind)...or something happens after many many miles, which is normal for every other brand too, no mater if Japanese or British.
Hey just wondering has Harley fixed that whole barely wanting start issues with the 21 PA? I've had mone for almost 3 years. Only 1400 miles on it. Have a RGS as well. But since i bought it new in Oct 21 it has had that sluggish srart with the whirring and only starting half the times it seems on first try. I didput a slip on amd a dynojet tuner on. But the other day threw all these codes. Bike would start in a high idle. Until clearing the codes could i ride it. I talked to dynojet gave him the codes. None of them are about the motor he said. He said they're all about like voltage issues. Stuff not communicating. Nothing to do with motor. Now of course hd wants to tell me im void cuz the tuner. But I've had it serviced aug 23. So supposedly all up to date and still has the crappy starting issue. What sicks is it's so damn embarrassing
the fix for the struggling to start on 21 and early 22s was addressed by an updated starter clutch. I had this replaced on my bike under warranty a couple years ago and all has been good since.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannel okay great thank you I bought mine in October 21 but I also have a road glide so I only used the Pan America a little. But this year I tried to start using it and I'm having those major issues with starting. What sucks is I do have exhaust and a tuner on it so they're telling me you'll have to look at it and it's a case-by-case basis. So my extended warranty may not cover it. So when you're saying the starter clutch I see there's two parts there's the starter and then there's that starter clutch gear or whatever that is that's what this guy I talked to said he had replaced. Of those two parts which one is it I'm sorry if I'm a little stupid on this
In the US, yes. You need to be able to show some proof that you serviced it properly, such as receipts for parts and a checklist of what you did. Check out my maintenance series for a step by step of how to do this. Warranty laws vary by country, I’m not familiar with the rules outside of the US. Similarly, in the US your warranty cannot be affected by aftermarket parts unless that part can be shown to have caused a failure or if the part alters the operation of the bike to fall out of compliance with EPA standards (such as a tuner or removing the catalytic converter)
hi. recently cleaned the chain. I lifted the motorcycle onto the lift, the wheels came off the ground and threw back the side running board. after cleaning, the bike was lowered in this position and now the ABS Traction control error is lit, the speedometer does not work and shows in neutral gear that the side leg is lowered... Errors are not allowed ... I tried to disconnect the battery did not help ... I'll go to the service... Maby you can say what is wrong... sorry for my English) i am from Russia) P110000C P110300C
hello i have problem with my pan america, when i switch on my start switch nothing happens on my pan america. Then i do self diagnostic on my pan thats it i got Run Switch Fault. Then what must i do ? Thank u 🙏
not sure what you mean? INST1 is the instrument panel, the display screen itself. If any codes are related to the display, you will see something other than zero next to it.
@@yorkchris10 the codes are still set and stored in the respective units, but without the display you just won’t see them. Will still show on the dealers scan too though.
Mike Could You Look Up Code B216615C I’m having a hard time finding any information on it, I have a 2021 Harley Sportster S and it’s having a no start issue ever since I reinstalled the battery after winter
In my Pan America service manual, that code is “Short to voltage or open in running lights power circuit” But I can’t imagine that would cause a No start.
I've been doing some research and it seems to be common issue with the Sportster S, looks like it just needs to be taken in for the Service Bulletin & Software update, I appreciate your help Mike keep up the good content
Awesome videos. Very though. Very meticulously prepared. Glad I’m subscribed. Wealth of information Thank you.
MIke, as a Pan America owner I'm always looking forward for new content on your channel. Please, keep up the excellent work. Your videos are entertaining and instructional at the same time.
I learn everytime I watch a broadcast of yours Mike. Thank you so much for the awesome info on the PA
Great video man! Your videos are the most useful vids on UA-cam for a PA owner. I can't thank you enough! I changed my OEM battery out with an Antigravity battery back in late September, 2021 because, (IMHO) it just couldn't handle the load. Nearly a year and a half later and 15,000 miles and I haven't seen a single code. Before the battery swap, just sitting in the garage for a week going through the ride modes with the engine off might run it down and cause a bunch of codes. Good on HD for that update.
Thought about the anti gravity but a little concerned with cold weather performance. What’s the coldest you typically ride in and any issues with it?
Almost all my issues disappear after install Antigravity battery. It’s highly recommend.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannelYeah, I'm in Tennessee so not too cold maybe 40.. But I saw some posts that says running the headlight for a minute or two will warm it up enough to operate normally. But I don't have any first hand experience below freezing. No issues at all when I have rode at 40 or left the bike outside in the cold overnight..
Hey gang! I just found this channel by someone that posted this video on the forum. I swapped to the antigravity battery and have not had the bike struggle to start after sitting in the cold. Longest I’ve had it sit was two weeks in January, the weather was in the 30s during that time.
Would it be possible for one of you gents that have had success with the anti-gravity battery to put the exact name, amp hour etc. on here so I could give it a try, would sure appreciate it.
This last update made a substantial difference but I would really like to boost starting volts that plummet after motorcycle checks everything.
very interesting and well done. and a big thanks to all the other pan american riders i see commenting and participating its a big help to us guys that dont have one yet as well...thank u all
Once again Mike you upload some great information, thank you! I'm not a social media person so I just paid 65 dollars for the year subscription. I've had my PanAm back 2 weeks now after this latest bcm/ecm update and there are still a few non starts, but no codes yet knock on wood. Your right about low volts. I've noticed a big difference at crank up making my screen dark.
Awesome video. Sportster S owner here, so we share a lot of the same problems. Cheers
Yeah I have to agree with earlier comments, I just got a Pan Am last week and love this kind of content. I always prefer doing my own work so this kind of knowledge is key these days. Also that one code description "Signal plausibility failure" I'm using that on my wife the next time she says something that doesn't make sense to me......
😆
Yep. I'm a truck driver, and when I start up bike when I get home,....Christmas tree.
But like you said, once I get to the gas station and start the engine after fuel up. All good.
I have a trickel charger, but I'm too concerned about it being on for weeks at a time.
p.s gunna take bike in for this update also. ✌️
I leave my Pan on a battery tender the whole time it’s parked, the bike needs it with the stock battery
Subscribed, thanks Mike. I had a 50 degree start up this morning in southern AZ and it threw the check engine light. It was cold weather related it seems. ECM P214900P & U228700P Both cleared and I should try to stop by HD before warranty expires to hopefully get the software update. But thank you, and I'm from Duluth for all the 50 degree cold haters but I think that was it
since getting current with updates, I've had zero issues with cold starts as low as mid 20s F. I do need to let the engine warm up about 45 seconds or so before taking off, otherwise the engine stumbles and sometimes stalls. I just start the engine before putting my helmet and gloves on, that's usually enough time.
Thank you Mike! That was very informative!
Mike, your channel is OUTSTANDING!!
Thank you!
Extremely helpful, thank you!
Great video, many thanks for the advices.
The best way to get rid of those trouble codes is to get rid of that bike. That was my solution. I gave it a year, constant back and forth at the dealer. I really, really like the bike too. It needs a few years refinement. I hope H-D continues to work things out.
Agreed on needing some refinement. I’ve been lucky so far and have not many issues and the ones I have had were taken care of.
Thanks vm, excellent help as usual.
Thanks very good video
Had 2 PA, a 21 & a 23, on both I got more codes and had to delete them more times then using the turning switch… had several breakdowns with both bikes, got tired and sold them, bought a BMW GS ADV again… I am done with HD
Ouch, I probably would be too.. enjoy the GS.
Mike, yes, most of the codes that get thrown are bogus. They are in-fact thrown due to startup voltage drops across the circuit cards (which are very sensitive) and the primary culprit is the bike's AGM battery. Harley-Davidson engineers should have used a lithium-ion battery on the Nightster, the Sportster S, and the Pan America; period. An AGM battery does not have the cranking amps required for engine start AND all the fricking computers on-board. I have owned both the SportsterS (2021) and the current Pan America Special (2023) and both bikes have thrown these bogus codes at startup... most of them comms errors between the various modules. Again, this is NOT because anything is actually wrong, but because the startup created a critical voltage drop (or voltage spike) on the computer cards. If they had used a Lithium-ion battery this would not be happening. Changing the firmware to NOT report these types of codes is sketchy at best, because rather than getting false positives, we may not get actual errors reported depending on conditions. The real solution here is to use a Lithium-ion battery rather than the AGM, or use a larger AGM battery with better voltage filtering on the modules.
By the way, the technical service manuals are available for these bikes; so you can look up the codes directly from the current book... but, warning alert, they are very pricey.
marcus
The other major bike manufacturers all come with AGM batteries from the factory and none share this issue, so it's not a battery chemistry issue. It's HD's poor engineering of the electrical system combined with lack of testing to identify the issue prior to launch. I'd suggest looking at LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) as well. Advantages over Li-ion are numerous: up to 10x the cycle charge life, don't degrade at high temps like Li-ion, holds its charge longer, doesn't heat up during charge/discharge, and is incombustible meaning even short circuiting it won't cause a fire or explosion. They weigh more than Li-ion (but still less than AGM) so most people just skip them for Li-ion if they're switching from AGM but the other benefits are significant.
@Pyrrho_ , other mfg does not have the issue because OEM don't use the tech of the Rev Max. Of course everyone uses AGM... but, you're comparing apples and oranges.
Neither here nor there, HD fixed the firmware, and the tech no longer posts the bogus codes at startup.
marcus
@@markh.harris9271 What special tech does HD use? It’s just another DOHC liquid cooled v-twin. The VVT is hydraulic, not electronic. Old style cable clutch. It may be high tech compared to older HD models but I don’t see anything special compared to Ducati, BMW, Aprilia, etc. It’s a first-gen product in a field of competitors that have been doing this sort of stuff for a lot longer.
@Pyrrho_ , you've got to be kidding?
... about six computer boards (modules)
INST1
RHCM
LHCM
ECM
BCM
HYCM
These boards are very sensitive to voltage spike... which occurs during startup; hence, the bogus codes on start. The firmware was changed so that comm errors between the boards (caused by voltage drop, or spike on start) will not be posted... and the spike will not interfere with the stater (ECM BCM error) which would otherwise cause the 1250 whine.
My SportsterS had the same issue... also fixed. My Pan America Special (2023) was already corrected by the time I purchased it... both run beautifully now; still using AGM Batts.
marcus
@@markh.harris9271 My BMW R1250RS has _eight_ separate control units talking with each other over its CAN bus, nine if I lived in the EU and had the "SOS" telematics module fitted. Again, what "special tech" is HD using that should warrant consideration? This is IMO very much an apples-to-apples comparison, as these are both major brand, top tier, 1250cc DOHC liquid cooled twins w/VVT, sold for similar MSRPs. Both using CAN bus with a main body/vehicle electronics controller paired with a primary ECU module for the engine, with additional modules used for features such as ABS, instruments, etc.
Way too much electronics and way too complicated. I like the Pan America, but I'm going to stick with my carbureted KLR.
KLRs are darn near indestructible.
I am an expert in deleting codes on my PAS which is nothing to be proud of and a shame on the MOCO in my opinion.
agreed, especially considering the more traditional Harleys have used CAN Bus and multiple computer modules for years now as well.
You go get this new update, that hopefully fixes this crap. We shall see.
Should be getting mine updated later this week.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannel my dealer said just give them an hour heads up and bring it when convenient. Knock on wood my late 22 has only given me one ARH lockout and a couple codes in 800 miles.
The update resolved this issue for me
after 9k miles? l wonder if PA owners would actually feel comfortable taking this "adventure bike" around the world. I know other companies like bmw get things wrong too, but then there's usually a product recall to fix a potential problem for good (forks and transmission shafts come to mind)...or something happens after many many miles, which is normal for every other brand too, no mater if Japanese or British.
Not sure I follow the “after 9k miles” reference? I forced the error codes for demonstration purposes.
Can I download the update onto my iPad and install it into my bike?
Needs to be on a fat32 formatted usb drive.
Hey just wondering has Harley fixed that whole barely wanting start issues with the 21 PA? I've had mone for almost 3 years. Only 1400 miles on it. Have a RGS as well. But since i bought it new in Oct 21 it has had that sluggish srart with the whirring and only starting half the times it seems on first try. I didput a slip on amd a dynojet tuner on. But the other day threw all these codes. Bike would start in a high idle. Until clearing the codes could i ride it. I talked to dynojet gave him the codes. None of them are about the motor he said. He said they're all about like voltage issues. Stuff not communicating. Nothing to do with motor. Now of course hd wants to tell me im void cuz the tuner. But I've had it serviced aug 23. So supposedly all up to date and still has the crappy starting issue. What sicks is it's so damn embarrassing
the fix for the struggling to start on 21 and early 22s was addressed by an updated starter clutch. I had this replaced on my bike under warranty a couple years ago and all has been good since.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannel okay great thank you I bought mine in October 21 but I also have a road glide so I only used the Pan America a little. But this year I tried to start using it and I'm having those major issues with starting. What sucks is I do have exhaust and a tuner on it so they're telling me you'll have to look at it and it's a case-by-case basis. So my extended warranty may not cover it. So when you're saying the starter clutch I see there's two parts there's the starter and then there's that starter clutch gear or whatever that is that's what this guy I talked to said he had replaced. Of those two parts which one is it I'm sorry if I'm a little stupid on this
Question: Can I service my Harley Davidson while under warranty and not void it? Can I install a homologated exhaust?
In the US, yes. You need to be able to show some proof that you serviced it properly, such as receipts for parts and a checklist of what you did. Check out my maintenance series for a step by step of how to do this.
Warranty laws vary by country, I’m not familiar with the rules outside of the US.
Similarly, in the US your warranty cannot be affected by aftermarket parts unless that part can be shown to have caused a failure or if the part alters the operation of the bike to fall out of compliance with EPA standards (such as a tuner or removing the catalytic converter)
hi. recently cleaned the chain. I lifted the motorcycle onto the lift, the wheels came off the ground and threw back the side running board. after cleaning, the bike was lowered in this position and now the ABS Traction control error is lit, the speedometer does not work and shows in neutral gear that the side leg is lowered... Errors are not allowed ... I tried to disconnect the battery did not help ... I'll go to the service... Maby you can say what is wrong... sorry for my English) i am from Russia) P110000C P110300C
Those fault codes are for the rear wheel speed sensor.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannel how I can fix it?)
hello i have problem with my pan america, when i switch on my start switch nothing happens on my pan america. Then i do self diagnostic on my pan thats it i got Run Switch Fault. Then what must i do ? Thank u 🙏
likely an issue within the left hand control module that needs to be addressed by your dealer.
Salut faut il mettre une batterie plus puissante ??
After getting the latest updates, I've had no issues with the stock battery.
When was the last time you took you bike to the dealer?
About a week after I made this video for a new fuel pump and the latest software updates.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannel Okay, that’s should sort most of the warning ⚠️ lights when starting. Have you had the updated starter clutch fitted?
@@MrAvrom I have. To be honest I have not had many issues with codes. That’s why I had to force some to make this video.
Can you still get codes without INST1?
not sure what you mean? INST1 is the instrument panel, the display screen itself. If any codes are related to the display, you will see something other than zero next to it.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannel with INST1 removed like ABS sensor, the bike will still run then...
@@yorkchris10 the codes are still set and stored in the respective units, but without the display you just won’t see them. Will still show on the dealers scan too though.
Mike Could You Look Up Code B216615C I’m having a hard time finding any information on it, I have a 2021 Harley Sportster S and it’s having a no start issue ever since I reinstalled the battery after winter
In my Pan America service manual, that code is “Short to voltage or open in running lights power circuit”
But I can’t imagine that would cause a No start.
@@MikesMotorbikeChannel Hhhhmm well loos like that's pointing to either my aftermarket Headlight, Front Turn Signals & Rear Brake Light Assembly....
I've been doing some research and it seems to be common issue with the Sportster S, looks like it just needs to be taken in for the Service Bulletin & Software update, I appreciate your help Mike keep up the good content