Do NOT buy a vintage synthesizer!
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- Ever since I made this channel over 4 years ago, this is a question I get time and time again. On email, Facebook chats, in comments or other social media: "Should I get a vintage synth?" or "What vintage synth should I get?".
If don't have a vintage synth from before and if you're wondering about if this is the right move for you, check out my reasons for not getting into this to begin with.
It can be fun, but it can also be a nightmare. Or both.
And NO, this is not any attempt at gatekeeping, just solid advice from someone who is coming from the actual 80s and have a lot of experience.
My 6 reasons FOR getting a vintage synth can be found here:
• Video
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Growing up I listened to so much synth-pop and it's only natural that my own music takes inspiration from many of the acts I loved back then. I still love them and listen to them!
Howard Jones, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, New Order, Erasure, Thompson Twins, Tears for Fears, The Human League, Propaganda. FGTH, Ultravox, OMD, Eurythmics, Duran Duran, Giorgio Moroder, Jean Michel Jarre, Jan Hammer, Alphaville, A-ha as well as loads of artists doing what is now called Italo Disco. And many more great acts like Nik Kershaw, Spandau Ballet, Wham, Dire Straits ++
When I was a kid, my neighbour Arthur had a modular synth that took up most of a wall in his living room. And when I got a drum kit, they used to listen through the wall when I played. So lucky that I had good neighbours.
Maintenance is a big part of the process but also part of the love. There is a reason classic car owner spend time wrenching. These old machines require extra love that a modern day synth wouldn't. The soldering iron should be the 2nd best instrument you play. In the end your tracks will have that classic sound you are looking for.
Got your point, but some electronic components, not to mention knowhow, may be hard to find...
Absolutely shawn. I enjoy seeing how these things do what they do. Old through hole boards are beautiful to behold.
@@SpikesStudio3 also beautiful: the string-tied wire looms that connect everything together!
What's interesting to me is every one of the other reasons given in this video (especially reason#2 Maintainence) amplifies Reason#1: they're EXPENSIVE!
Shiny truth Shawn
Reason #7. Companies are now making analog synthesizers that sound very impressive and should be dependable for quite a long time. Many have made improvements on retired popular synths that make those much more dependable and playable than they were back in the day. For example.. Moog Model D Reissue.
I would never go back to my SH-101 after playing around with the MS-1. The same sounds and workflow at a fraction of the price and far, far more reliable.
Interesting to see MS-1 working in 15-20 years. I don’t think there is enough data to judge current synths reliability. On the other hand, with Behringer prices you can replace synth every year or so :)
@@serhiymarchenko8361 That's fair, and I obviously can't tell how the electronics well hold up, but having owned both new, I can say for sure the MS-1 feels much more solid out of the box.
Deepmind-12 for instance is a game changer. I no longer last for a vintage analog Roland.
Sadly the main company in the space you describe has deeply questionable business practices, and goes after journalists. As was pointed out, we also don't know how long those products will last. I'll stick with the vintage.
I see Planet X2 box in the background!
Great game man! My only wish is that I had more time to actually play games on the C64 these days. ;-)
...and Lode Runner! :)
@@EspenKraft and Dead or Alive records
Hey Dave, has all that snow finally disappeared? It'll be good to see you back up and running with more vids.
Ha! I see an SY-22 *vector* synth in the background!
Awesome video man!!! Thanks ❤️
Or you take the Doctor Mix route and just build a bigger studio! Problem solved...
Cheers man! Keep up the good work too. :D
@@chrismurphy9750 haha, I am going that route now... and yes, its exactly because of the vintage gear, which multiplied explosively in the last years. This stuff really takes space
Absolutely spot on! Reason number 6 made me laugh out loud. You're right about the cables. Lots and lots of cables. And power strips. And stands. And some of the vintage boards are really heavy. But I love them all.
Reason nr. 2 (maintenance) is why I learned how to fix and maintain these dinosaurs and I became my own synth tech :-)
Nice video concept. To echo one of your points, one of my most enjoyable moments with vintage synths was selling a stack of them. They're wonderful, inspiring things but you need to be able to prove to yourself that they don't own you.
I spoke to Brad Fiedel a while back and he had just about everything at one point. He now just owns a piano. I love that.
I (too) sell, or trade, everything that doesn't get used on a regular basis, in my own music. I'm not more stronger attached to it than that. ;-)
Nice story about Fiedel, if that works for him (and I assume it does) then awesome! I was just saying to Anders the other day that I would get rid of everything and just get a piano myself, if I could make a good living from song-writing alone, but the world has changed. You can't make a (good) living from solely writing pop songs anymore. Pop music as I grew up with, and love, is dead. Sorry to admit it. ;-)
@@EspenKraft For sure, music is worthless now. It's ubiquitous and easy for anyone to make and release. In fact, writing music in general is changing and the bottom is falling out of everything. First album sales and streaming and now music for media is moving almost totally online where royalties don't exist (or are fractions of a fraction of a penny).
Shame. The down side of the internet.
Synths - yep, if it's not in use then no need to pretend that it needs to stay. Especially when it takes up precious space.
@@AlexBallMusic we should all take up art! Just saw a painter the other day who is selling his latest effort for 11grand!
@@fffUUUUUU I was referring to letting it go in later life, not whilst you're still using it. Lol.
There's a certain joy to adding a new/old synth to the collection but that joy fades unless it really adds to my music creation ability. It's so tempting to go grab synths because they're for sale locally but I know I probably won't ever use most of them!
The hardware synths I have are the XV88, D50, TX81Z, JD-Xi. I would never give them away because they add a lot to my musical style.
even 3d printing can't rescue those old synths eh Angus?
Cyborg studio has the virtual XV5080 and D50.
The cyborg studio site has samples of TX81Z. Roland cloud has D-50 and XV-5080
Yes, that does happen. When it fades or the workflow becomes too much of a drag you start selling stuff. I've bought and sold over the years but there's also a few things I can never let go of, at least not yet.
I totally agree on the price reason. Prices on EBay/Reverb have skyrocketed in the last two years. Even the low end and not-so-vintage vintage gear is going for crazy money now. Also it's definitely a labor of love to own and maintain any vintage gear. I've had to learn soldering/de-soldering, battery/pot/lcd/eprom replacement, recapping, and "red glue" removal, among other things. It always seems to come down to money or time to keep things running. I find it worthwhile but for sure it's not for the faint of heart (or wallet). In the end whether you are in it for collecting or playing, as long as it brings you happiness, go for it.
I'm in your exact same position. I learned to do minor repairs and maintenance to keep gear running (hopefully) for years. With that said I have in front of me a list of 21 things to do to my gear (recapping power supply for gear older than 25 years, changing screen backlights, changing internal batteries, getting RAM or Memories, changing tact switches for buttons, etc.)
At 2:03 I recognized my D550 oh I did the screen upgrade too. It looks so awesome now. I can’t believe how good it looks. I recommend to everyone!
Regarding dry sounds--that is what I LOVE about old synths. These days you turn on a synth and you're inundated with tons of reverb, delay and God knows what else. The simplicity of turning on a synth and not having that is great because you really get to know the sound of the unit and you can always apply fx in your DAW if you want.
Most of software VST synths nowadays follow this simplicity model. For example, such freeware synths as Rocket Punch by Hello Robot (it is extremely funny!), Viking VK-1, Korg Mono/Poly from Full Bucket Music and many, many others. They sound very dry and gritty.
The FIRST thing I used to do back in the early '90s when listing to a new synth in a music shop was to figure out how to bypass the internal fx, so as not to be "fooled" by the luster of reverb, chorus, delay, etc. I wanted to hear what the actual synth itself could do! (I remember loving that the Yamaha SY77 was the first to have a dedicated fx bypass button, and that's still one of the best synths ever...)
Totally agree, but I can also understand people being disappointed by the dry sounds. I felt that way about my old Korg Delta the first time I turned it one. Oops.
I know! I have such trouble trying to figure out how to turn off the effects! Tbh my first problem is trying to figure out how to turn it on, I usually never get past that point.
@@ShallRemainUnknown exactly. This was my issue with the Behringer Deepmind, I felt like when you turn off all the effects the raw sound wasn't very impressive or interesting. Of course I've heard great music made on a Deepmind but I couldn't connect to it for this reason.
"Depending on where you live, finding a synth tech may be difficult."
This is my biggest hurdle. Forget synth techs, there's not even someone who repairs electronics anywhere near me. Obtaining spares is another major issue. There is no store I can walk into and buy things like capacitors or resistors off the shelf.
I'm incredibly fortunate in this regard: I live almost directly between the Syntaur office (parts) and SwitchedOn (repairs), but I remember a time when this was absolutely the biggest problem.
@@jakelawson1 You're really lucky 🙂 Because of my issues, I stick to soft synths.
Yeah, repairs is a big issue. This old gear can quickly become a money pit. I do my own basic repairs like changing tact switches, caps, screens, etc. But my biggest worry is when a specialty chip goes out and you're stuck with a synth for parts. I've sold some vintage synths for that reason and used the funds to purchase new analog synths that will last for years. It's crazy how some people will still buy an old Prophet 5 when you can buy a new Prophet 5. But to each their own.
There's a reason for that. Most tech is so cheap these days, that very few people find a reason to repair than buy new - the reason SHOULD in reality be sustainability, but people usually chose money first - and here's a fun fact for you, as a former Electronics Repair Tech, and an electronics Enthusiast - people have gotten this idea that if they LET me REPAIR their stuff, it's somehow a favor they do me, and don't realize this takes ton's of time, and since it's not my stuff in the end - I get very little out of it if I don't get enough to cover the free time I put into it. Experience + time is worth money, most plumbers love their job too, but they wouldn't fix your toilet just because of a pretty face and a kiss :)
@@TommyHelgevold I find it helps to take a deposit before commencing work. Also, people who use their gear are much more grateful than those who hoard it. I have found working on vintage electronics can be quite profitable, but you need to get the money part of the conversation out of the way up front, to set expectations straight.
The best music I've ever written was on an ensoniq sd-1 synth with a built in 12 track sequencer. I mastered that synth and so programming it was easy. I bought the arp 2600, the minimoog and others and found myself lost in trying to get it all to work efficiently. Since space is limited I now do everything inside my computer. Owning more synths just complicated the writing process for me. I went back to a simple setup and my writing returned. I realized that production wasn't my strong suit but songwriting was. I do love those old fat sounds though.
Yeah Ensoniq made good sequencers. Of course they were discontinued due to a clueless Singaporean sound card Co (creative labs)
My first synth was an ensoniq esq 1 and I liked it but it broke down after a little over a year. The place I bought it at did not do any repairs and I ended up with buying a Korg T3 that lasted a long time. In fact it might still be usable but I have not had it out of its case in a long time. I usually write with my Yamaha Motif and use samples from sample tank and east west to give me a variety of different sounds. I then record into my motif sequencer and then transfer it all into Reaper and then finally Ableton to record vocals.It's a bit complicated but I'm used to doing it that way and it all works out okay.
Now in my late 50's I get quite excited to see vintage synths, that I grew up with in the 80's
Only have one synth and a controller, for now, limited on space...
this is just Espen trying to drive the prices down. lol
That ship has sailed, Esben underestimate the popularity of his channel. I've personally withnessed the exact stuff he reviews EXPLODE in Sweden in the Second-Hand market the minute he said something good about it :)
I've gone round in circles with vintage gear. Used to have exclusively old stuff, got annoyed with stuff not working and went all modern, and now I have mostly vintage gear again! The sound/user experience wins for me, I'll just live with the quirks. The gear is more expensive now than it was 10 years ago though, sadly! And I've never stopped making music :)
Love that you're doing videos from both viewpoints.
"People suddenly getting 30 or 40 vintage synths completely stopped making music." Hey, I feel attacked! ;-) ;-) But seriously, I'm making longer term plans... thinking of building a studio out north of the house as my whole downstairs is just overflowing. Also, nice shirt! ;-)
Brillianr as always and sound advice (joke intended) concerning collecting and then forgetting to make music! Loved the long shot of your studio so jammed with electronic goodness that there is barely room to sit down. Enjoy your "toys" and keep playing. We'll be listening and appreciating.
Love it Espen!! I wish you did this video before all the great videos of synth gear you've done over the years which led me down the path to reason #6!! "Buying your first vintage synth will definitely not be your last..." Amen! That Korg Wave station A/D rack seemed innocent enough at the time... Now I have no room in my basement!
Hahaha! This is a great and clear video. Especially about the collecting point of view. I started with a Roland R8 and now I even have a Vm-c7200 digital mixing console. And... I am still on the hunt for more Roland gear.
Thanks Espen. You're the best man.
Really great.
Had one of those music gear collector types for a customer when I worked in a music shop. My day lit up anytime he appeared! Bought dozens of synths and modules but he never finished a single tune.
You can see why the likes of Chris Lowe from Pet Shop Boys used samplers instead of synths. You don't have to carry large synths around on tour and you have all the sounds in one.
Hi Michael, looking at old Prodigy live shows it seems Liam Howlett did the same. I had no idea until seeing this footage. I dunno what keyboards he used but you can see stacks of floppy disks beside him which I assume contained his entire set of samples.
@@MrSpiderkells He used a Roland W-30.
But... samplers are synths as well (some more than other though)
Hi Espen,
I agree a hundred percent. I already told myself I’d never but another vintage but often I can’t resist... and after a certain age, you can no longer go after small issues here and there, you want a great sound, period! But it’s a hard to keep decision, also because I already imagine another 6 reasons to BUY a vintage...
I’ll check you next 6 reasons video and feel pretty confident I’ll agree to it as well 😃.
BTW, thank you for making them !!!
Outstanding video!! Yes, very true! I actually spend more time adding to my collection than playing the instruments! Sometimes they don't leave the boxes for months. You have greatly inspired me to reassess my situation. Counselling maybe, for the illness?? Moving forward to checking out the rest of your videos. Cheers!!
Cheers! :D
Maybe one day... Watching ur videos has inspired me to invest in a cheap midi keyboard from ebay, Ableton Lite, TAL Sampler and your Digital Collection Vol. 1 - loads of vintage synth fun for less than $150 🎹😊
These are sound and astute observations, well done!
Thks you have so right ! There is so many reason to don't forget newest synth are very useful to sounds like analog
Thanks, you are so right. Exactly the reason why i bought Some cheaper behringers, they sound good enough, i am enjoying making music instead of collected synths.
Great video, really does give a realistic expectation of owing vintage synths, of which I have many.
Good points, all. I was expecting maintenance to be high on the list. I have had to do repairs on a D-70, Juno-106, QSR, MSB+, power supplies for vintage A&H boards, etc. You can't find people to work on them so that's a drawback. I just threw out a Crown DC300 because I am not comfortable working on gear with a failure mode that can put line voltage on your speakers. Good video, thanks. Oh... some of the classics have rack versions which can save you space, if that's a concern.
Excelent as always Espen!
If money is no object it’s awesome to own a collection of the masterful workmanship of vintage classic musical instruments since they’re as important as paintings or a car collection. I was lucky to meet such a man with a net worth upwards of $100 million. He has a massive synthesizer room in his Beverly Hills mansion with very hard to get synthesizers such as a Yamaha DX1, CS80, modulars, wurlitzers, 1960s Hammonds etc. He told me he began collecting in the 60’s and stopped in the 90’s because sampling took over. He spent over $200,000 throughout the years and his collection is now valued at $1 million. He has a synth museum. He’s in his 70’s and very proud of his collection
The word "collection" and synths is dangerous combination. It usually means that no music is made. At all. Show me the music made by this man. If the synths just sit there unused, he don't deserve them. Synths are tools, meant to be played. Just like cars are meant to be driven.
Very good video, well done! I completely agree. I also would add to the list "Flexibility" ; because many vintage synths are very limited, regarding what you can manage to create (sonically) with them.
Great video Espen, great points to consider for sure!
All exceedingly valid reasons Mr. Espen!
I would also add that asides from the cost of maintenance/ need for repairs, some vintage synths use unique/ custom chips that are no longer available and have been out of production for years. This means that even though a skilled technician has the ability to physically replace all the parts, unless those replacement parts can actually be found, the synth will remain broken.
I'd also add a reason 7 - a good number of vintage synths are now being remanufactured/ cloned and are available new. Putting aside the argument about them not sounding exactly identical (many originals didn't sound exactly identical to each other either!) or the "ethics" of the companies making them, they are close enough and much more affordable to make them worthwhile alternatives. Some are also available in smaller form factors or as desktop modules, and that can help those with limited space.
Looking forward to part 2!
Cheers! Part 2 already out. ;-)
Hi Espen, you make some really great points on the pros and cons of vintage synths. On the point though about them being dry, I actually love that vintage (or modern analog) sounds great without lots of chorus and reverb.
I've owned some great vintage synths over the years, Roland System 100 with the expander 102 module, 16 step analog sequencer and even the mixer and speakers. That one took up a lot of space and was expensive for a 2 VCO, 2 Filter and ADSR setup. It never broke down on me but I couldn't afford to have it serviced, so I sold it.
Other favs were Oberheim Matrix 1000, which I think is underrated. I've also owned a Juno 106, which had the typical filter chip problems, but I loved that synth. I thought it sounded pretty thin but it always seemed to sound great in the mix no matter what you did with it. I couldn't afford to fix it, so I sold it (yes I regret that I sold it now!). So easy to program, had a decent amount of memory for patches and was affordable (not any more!).
I've also owned a Roland JX8P which for some reason I never really liked even though I had the PG800 programmer as well.
Other find memories of past girlfriends (oh I meant synths) were an old Yamaha DX7II that I picked up for nothing and a great drum machine the Casio Rz-1. I would've kept that if it has a little more sampling time!
I only have modern analog now (other than an old Cheetah MS6 which needs a date with the synth doctor) and of course VSTs.
You always remember your first love(s) though!
You are so right. :-) I have a knack for synths of the end of 90s/early 2000s era, and yes, one day they'll fail, too - and in this "throw stuff away after 2 years of use" time we live in, skilled repair technicians are hard to find. And I definitely couldn't do that on my own.
A few years ago it was easier to find cheap equipment. Maybe not the Junos and the MS20s anymore but I arrived at the end of the trend and got a few pieces (in my case mainly my 90s dream: samplers).
The “thrill of the hunt” got in the way of making music. After a while I had to admit that I was more productive with my software samplers, although I kept two of the hardware ones and focused on “getting patches done” instead of looking for the next piece of gear. “Hunting” kept me so busy that I hardly knew the possibilities of some of my units beyond a quick walkthrough.
I do enjoy your channel and your approach very much, and although we’re not in the same path when it comes to music style, your videos and calm approach is always inspiring. I know I’m late to the comments but anyway… Thank you!!!
Man your videos are always so on point! I´m a new fan here, same age as you , have a YAMAHA SY77 , RY30, RX5 and a V90 hooked to a Casio WK1800 and a YAMAHA QY700 and I absolutely love them . I have to confess that I recently bought an Arturia KL88 and upgraded to Ableton Live 11 Suite which I still need to learn to use LoL. That video of why 80´s music sound so good revived the spark on me like nothing ever did for decades , it totally redefined the game for me and reminded me to get back on my track even if it´s only for self enjoyment. I have a crazy idea brewing in the back of my head , perhaps someday if you have time I´d really like to share with you. Again , Thank you so much for all you do man!!
Cheers!
Espen - Love your videos this one is no exception. Great information with real things to think about before you drop that cash!! :D
Thanks man!
Really good video. Great insight and perspective.
OH SNAP! Is that Dead Or Alive posters in the background!!?!??! THOSE WERE SOME OF MY MOST FAVORITE JAMS BACK IN THE 80s!! You, SIR, are a man of taste indeed!
It's not posters, it's vinyl records. 12" maxi singles of some of their songs.
Great advice Mr Kraft , i am buying things i could not afford when they came out ,now an oldie i can indulge a little , :}
This is a great and important video.
Maintenance is the most neglected part. Not only in money but also in ‘waisting’ time on repairing machines.
All just to keep that specific sound in your setup.
You're right, and there are more. Never seems to stop us shelling out for more of them though. Looking forward to your 'pros' video.
It's already done. ;-)
Very clever video full of thruth.
On my side, beside the increasing prices problem obvioulsy, the maintenance is the main obstacle. I live in the countryside, far from big cities, and even finding someone to do a simple recaping is an issue.
I wonder if part of the reason demand is increasing is because peoples' old synths are breaking down and they want to replace them. Vintage analog does seem to be getting more popular, but the amount of people replacing what they already had could be significant.
That’s 6 reasons why you should buy vintage gear Espen. 😃. Sadly due to money troubles a few years back I had to sell my meagre collection and only recently bought another ‘vintage’ Sy77. For me the feel of the instrument in hardware form is something plugins and VST’s can never emulate
I've replaced several of my 1980s synths, and one from the early 70s, with software VST's. And for the record, i'm very happy I did. Most of my vintage synths I still live in storage as I find the software versions the ones I prefer to work with. Actually playing them, the hardware classics are more fun to see and touch, but software can replicate the sound, and offer many advantages.
I once owned two SY77s and an SY99 and a DX5 and a TX816 and I sold them all for peanuts 😬
(as well as a DX7 classic, DX7S, DX21, DX11, TX81Z ) ... I quite like FM 🤣
The speculation on some vintage classics as junos, Jupiters etc has made the prices so unfair and detached from the real values. Therefore the first reason and the last one now coincide. They are expensive because of the compulsive collectors. And that’s why Behringer now exists and flourish
Yeah. That Model D synth that Behringer makes for $300 is damn good for the price...
@@dannydaniel1234 after all minimoog was already expensive and today it keeps his original value. What drives me crazy is the price of low cost gear which now are immotivately untouchable. Like Roland TB303 which was released at less than 400 bucks and now costs 5 times the original price.
@@FabrizioDeSerio
Like you said, Behringer is killing a
@@FabrizioDeSerio
I love what Behringer is doing.
They are the only company that actually listens to what customers want and thats analog synths that wont break the bank!
@@dannydaniel1234 Here's hoping they do a mellotron. Those folks are worse than Moog when it come sto marking up gear.
Ok great, you've convinced me. I'm not buying one. .... What?! There is a "6 reasons you SHOULD buy" video too? Noooooooooo! ;-)
Just do as I do: don't watch yhat video. It's that simple!
Hi Espen. You're absolutely right. My first vintage synth wasn't my last one and I've got now another 2 synths. So I'm becoming a collector...
This is one of the best videoes you have made, and I will still enjoy my VST's!
Thanks! Nothing wrong with VSTs!
5 reasons why you should get one. 1. Analog is realtime, no delay, hands on you can do fast movements that just don't feel or sound natural on the PC (especially when you get in the zone and you are jamming). 2. Old synths sometime are a bit scratchy, dirty pots, components can be jank. Can give you nice characteristics. If you are too perfect your music will be played in an elevator. 3. no midi can be interesting. Once i had an analog drum machine that output spikes of voltage when the pads were hit. I tapped that right into a modular, iiinnsaaane. On that note it's much more hackable(vs a digital keyboard) 4. You get addicted. it's better to be addicted to this than magic the gathering. We all have our vice. 5. It good to have at least 1 piece of gear from the past and apperciate how we got from point a to point b. 6. Have one piece of gear you have for a lifetime and pass down to your children or nephew/neices. create history and survive through it in what you share with others.
I love all your videos. But this one of my favs. I have been resisting purchase of vintage synths for all those reasons. But I might change my mind with you next vid.
You are so well on point. A few months ago I decided to start making/recording music again after many years so I decided to add more gear/equipment to my Korg MS 2000 (the only synth I had). So I just recently bought two Yamaha DX7s, Roland A-30 midi controller, Akai MPK midi controller, a CME midi controller, an Audio/MIDI interface and a 10 channel mixer audio just to name a few. And as of today I have not started recording anything. Is a weird addiction (syndrome ?) that I couldn’t help. But I have stop buying synths/equipment but I am still obsessed with searching for synths/equipment in the ads in the internet but at least I’m not buying anything more. It is a weird compulsive buying frenzy that I was able to control quickly. In your video you point out that synths enthusiasts will buy all these vintage synths but not play them. I can very much relate to that 100%. What would you call this kind of behavior ?
Interesting comments on being focused on gear and losing sight of the music one can create.
Collecting and accumulating gear also applies to modern devices and equipment.
I have seen this with a couple of audiophiles I know. They have become more interested in the gear and sound and forgotten about the music. One got to the stage of purchasing $400 cables to connect his speakers. I certainly could not tell the difference I sound between his $50 cables and the $400 cables.
The music became secondary to the sound system.
Also switched from a solid state amplifier to a vacuum tube amplifier where the tubes alone cost $1500 per pair.
There is certainly a trap with buying equipment purely for accumulating gear.
I'm with you lol. People with a lot of expendable cash reach the plateaus that all musicians face, but instead of working through it, they think buying a new piece of gear will take them to the next level. Then a lot of times give up. Gotta disagree a little about the guitar amp part, though. Been playing guitar for 15+ years and my mind was blown the first time I played a real tube amp like a Vox AC30 or Fender Blues Jr with good settings, because I always thought it was just people being nostalgic. Solid state amps can get decent, but can never replicate the dynamics of tubes. A tube amp sounds slightly different every time you hit the string. It's like the difference between playing on a $100 casio electric keyboard vs a Rhodes imo. I'd say most guitarists' bigger problem is buying a $2000 guitar and pair it with one of those giant ass solid state combos because it has a cool LED screen and looks like a good deal (cuz big watts is better). I'm more of a keyboardist nowadays, but my amp cost 4 times as much as my standard Strat from 2006 and I would never make a different decision.
But also, if you're specifically talking about those crazy boutique vintage amps with $1500 tubes, I agree that's quite a questionable investment unless you're John Mayer or something haha
@@asiagobagel8293 good points. Instead of accumulating dozens of guitars or one class of instrument, i find it more beneficial musically to buy different types of musical instruments. Buying a mandolin or banjo or sitar and working through how to play these new instruments is a great way to develop your musical skills.
A friend completed a post graduate degree in music and the main requirement in the course was competency in 20 different musical instruments. A minimum score of 95% for each chosen instrument was needed in order to be awarded the degree.
Most of the candidates in this course knew how to play brass and wind instruments as well as stringed instruments and percussion.
Cheers
Maintenance and reliability are the main reasons I don't have any vintage gear. I'm glad I sold my JX-8P when it was working perfectly. If I had kept it for another 4-5 years. it would surely have broken down. Then I would have had to either pay someone to fix it, or sell it for almost nothing as a defective unit.
When it comes to the last reason, the same can happen with modern synths and even with software. Lots of people just hoard plugins, looking for that "magic" plugin that will inspire them to actually finish a song.
A thought provoking video. To be honest I never quite understood the lust for vintage gear. The only thing I really really wanted was a TB-3 but the little Behringer box is close enough to satisfy that itch. If I was ever to get the urge to develop an addiction to synthesizers I think I would slip down the modular hole.
Great video, Espen-I have found myself falling into the trap of "collecting vs making music", often. I've pared down my number of synths, only to see the number increase a few years later. At this point, given my age and trying to find time around work, daily life chores, etc-I know I will not ever master all the synths I have (regarding deep functionalities, etc). Also, you touched on studio space-that is another area that I'm struggling with-organization is NOT my strong point and I constantly have to fight with available space vs desire to purchase another synth. I don't like using modules so that is another issue for me, I almost have to have an actual "keyboard". OTOH, if I didn't have the capability to make music, well, that doesn't bear thinking about!
My first keyboard was my Moog Source I bought used with money I saved from a summer paper rout back in 1986. Soon after I bought a PolyMoog, and Ensoniq Mirage and a Korg VC-10 Vocoder. I sold everything but the Moog Source. The Polymoog was just too big, heavy, non-MIDI one-trick pony. The Korg Vocoder would only work if you sang falsetto into the mic so I traded it for a SCI SixTrack. Sold that too. I sold the Mirage to a friend so I could get a new EPS (still have this). Love your videos! Keep it up!
All good points. A big challenge with collecting aging electronics is that they're basically slowly self destructing in whole or in part. Capacitors leaking, plastics becoming brittle, rubber turning to goo, displays fading, etc. In many ways it's like old car collecting where you need to be ready for the work to maintain your collection as well as the play. Also, about the sound of old synths, I remember back in the 80s the third piece of equipment my musician brother bought after his CZ-1000 and a 4-track recorder was a reverb / effects rack unit. It made all the difference in the sound of his compositions. Looking forward to reasons why to buy a vintage synth video!
Spot on Espen!
I have a lucky 7th of my own...
Try gigging with them!!!
I carry 125kg+ of equipment and cases not including amplification.
Like you say it’s dry, so I need a tonne of rack gear to support my synths to get the sound I’m after.
I’m looking forward to the next instalment!!!
Great video, spot on Espen. Point 6 is very valid, until recently I had collected 11 vintage drum machines. Never used them mind, it was just easier using software rhythms. Cashing in now though, just sold my TR-808 last week for a tidy profit, next up the Sequential Circuits' Drumtraks.
Thanks! I'm after a Drumtraks. ;-)
As you came to the later items on your list I reached my hand out and stroked a Korg DSS1 that I haven’t played in years. Your cautions are all valid.
All very good reasons! You mentioned in “Logistics”, (the possible need for other hardware), I would also point that some require old PC/Mac hardware/software combinations in order to edit them or send/receive Sysex data, which inevitably adds to the “on going” maintenance of that equipment! But it’s so much fun to fiddle with cables no? haha!
Anyway, Thank you for your very delightful and informative videos!
Your point about “collecting” synths versus “making music” resonates with me. While I only (!!!) have 6 or 7 vintage synths and drum machines, and while I still produce music when I have the time and energy, I barely move beyond their presets. Contrast this to when I was 16 and my only synth was a Boss Dr Synth - I knew every little feature and little tweak to make it sing. I still love picking up old synths when I see them (particularly those from the 80s, when I was a kid), but mine are quickly turning into expensive ornaments these days!
Thanks for the new video! 👍
Loved reason number six you might become a collector! But it's so easy! Just one more! Thanks for the great vid!
Thanks! :D
Nice Video! As I found a CD yesterday with photos from 20 years ago I noticed again that with less gear - especially as a beginner in this topic - I was most creative. I even started with a usb synth on a old ironing board - not joking. Another reason is that I spend hours and hours on eBay looking for a good catch and as you said - not making music that time. I am now happy with a new audio computer, two HS-7, a SY77 wich i ordered a new display last week (sadly seems lost in shipping) the SY22 (wich I use most because it doesnt has that high pitch noise as SY77), and bought now a JV-2080 with 3 Exp Boards Vintage Synths, and a new Monitor arriving today. From California are on its way many patch Floppies for SY77. So after 1 1/2 year beginning with synths and being inspired by your channel, trying 80s music and 80s film music, my new goal and vision is to use that many presets and options to transform on these synths I now have, stack these synths - which I like most, learn theorie, and make music instead of being stuck on ebay notifications (and heavy smartphone use) for the best buy.. oh and I noticed personaly for me that with somebody beside I am more creative. But I learned esp for 80s music not to expect much attention for that synth sounds because many friends such dont like that raw sounds. They dont feel that wow when hearing an FM Synthesis Brass and so on. Thats to keep in mind and dont be offended when as a beginner spent hours on recording tracks :-)
And Reason 7: Your wife 😅 I am maybe at the top of the point she is getting nervous. I dont know how i managed putting almost half of the so called „bedroom“ full with gear. And she is ok with it! What a wonderful woman.
😂 I can relate and thousands of others certainly can as well. There's this meme where the wife says something like "Oh, now you have a new synth you can sell one of the old ones, can't you?"
right, as it was in the 80s with audio and loudspeakers like infinity RS 2b, arcus, cabasse, ... today they use smartphone and boomboxes
I used to get stuff delivered to my place of work and then [MISSION IMPOSSIBLE MUSIC INTENSIFIES] try and sneak those boxes in with her noticing.
@@BWPT. Same here 😂
Get rid of the wife...that excludes nr 7...hehe
Points 1 & 2 were the main reasons I decided to go for the Roland D-05 Boutique over hunting down a Used D-50. I later discovered that due to its much smaller size that it made a really nice portable synth for playing on my lunch break at work.
I agree with your struggle with making music as a collector. These are golden words. I too have succumbed to this phenomenon and it's pretty crazy that in hindsight it's as you described in the video. When I got my first old synth, it was broken. Fixing it, and bringing it back to life...that changes you. That provides a life lesson most never get to experience. Thank you for the reflection. Great stuff..!!!!
Thanks! Just to clarify, I don't have any problems with making music. I make music almost every day. ;-) I'm not a collector of synths. I just have a few because I need a broad palette of sounds since I use vintage ones. I though I was clear in saying I've encountered many friends that have that "problem". I'm just pointing at some good reasons, not necessarily reasons that has affected me personally.
@@EspenKraft thanks for the clarification .
Good idea for a video (and for the follow-up video you describe)! Number 6 is such an important one. There is just something about getting that first vintage synth (although I've had mine since they were new) that makes you want more and forget to use what you have. Synth acquisition syndrome (SAS) spreads with minimal contact.
Known as GAS originally, gear not only sinths
@@borisangeloffsimeonoff1288 Yes, I was playing on that term, creating a new one specific to synths. I also struggle with term acquisition syndrome (TAS). Thanks for your critical insight, Boris.
In my opinion, the worst thing about repairing vintage synths is finding replacement parts. Many of the parts are no longer available, and have no viable substitutes. Also, some manufacturers never released proper detailed schematics and technical documentation for their synths, and are now out of business. The detailed information required to efficiently repair those vintage synths evaporated along with the company. Yes, I'm looking at you, "Ghost of Ensoniq's Past"! 😉
I am currently trying to source a memory board for Ensoniq EPS16. Any ideas?
Greetings Espen. I totally agree with the price aspect, since any vintage synth you find on ebay are already in the break down stage, and you don't know really on a quality level what you will receive if you do decide to pay the exorbitant price for it, unless the add on ebay says it has been serviced or refurbished, but still, the price war for vintage gear is crazy. I bought a Roland Jupiter 6 back in 1984 when they first arrived at the stores for $2,135.00. They are going for 7 grand on ebay at present. All the best for 2022!
Great vid as per usual
I fall under the umbrella of not being able to fix them myself and techs are getting harder to find
As well as running out of space and collecting more than playing
But thanks to you and your channel i play a lot more now
I love your delivery. I love humour.
OMG. Reason #4 and #5 got me. I have owned sooooooooooooooo much gear and thought to myself..."gee. This takes up a lot of room and is a pain in the ass to move." I love vintage synths but went the minimalist route. Great video :D
I sold all of my vintage Oberheim units (Matrix 6, Matrix 1000, OB-Xk, 2 DPX1s, DMX,) and filled any of the gaps left from those with Dave Smith Instruments / Sequential units and I couldn't be happier. So now I have 8 DSI / Sequential synths that came with warranty, have amazing tech support, have their own built in parameters, effects, updates, and ability to save and load new patches. I had fun with my Oberheim gems but I always had to approach them with finesse and I had to bring something to a tech or order parts from Syntaur at least once a year. Dealing with all of that kept me from being productive and making music.
Hi, I recently got a Korg 01w/FD, needs work but I absolutely love the sounds on it, totally worth the buy. Another reason you could add is vintage synths are often very heavy.
As for me, I'm completely crazy for everything related to late 70s or 80s, so I have one synth in my collection (Roland D-10), sure, it has a lot of presets and functions, but I feel like I'm going to buy another one after spending money on Stereo system. I think that you was right about "hooking" of collecting synths, but I think that is goes for anything vintage nowadays, as one can get more pleasure by touching and interacting with real things, instead of digital counterpart.
Great video! Great channel. Thank you.
I have 4 synthesizers that I have bought over a period of 57 years. I started in the 70s with my first synth, a Paia 2720 kit. I had to build it and it was very educational. 37 keys, monophonic, basic. I enjoyed that so much I made musical electronics my career. Then in the 90s I bought an Ensoniq ESQ-1. Wow! The sound quality and ease of use was fantastic. I still have it and nothing sounds quite like it. It is a digital wavetable synth with analog filters and amplifiers. Great sounds. Then in like 2005 I bought a Yamaha Motif and a Korg Triton Extreme. Totally digital synths but they have a warm sound. My favorite is probably the Korg. I still have and use all of them. I also have a Roland JV 1010, a half rack size synth module. It has some useful sounds. Now I'm feeling the need to get into Eurorack, mostly the analog stuff. There are so many possibilities, with buying modules from different manufacturers. I am very happy with my vintage synths, and wish I could have afforded an Arp 2600 and a Moog. G.A.S. may compel me to find them.
Your reasons to not buy a vintage synth are sound and ring true. I will be interested to watch your 'reasons to buy a vintage synth video' dude.
Depending upon how "vintage" we are talking, but multi-timbral was not a feature of early synths. That was always a problem for me when I wasn't able to record separate audio tracks (oh the days of recording with 2 stereo cassette decks).
That was the first thing I ever used MIDI for: Play two machine at once = multitimbral-ish!
I buy vintage affordable gear , not the most wanted, usualy not working, I fix them, sometimes it takes me so long... i think they are limited, and difficoult to program, but to me , learn to use those gear is very inspiring, every gear is different and going aroud to the limitations helps me to not get stuck in a circle of the same music.
Thank you for share your thoughts, It's so useful to be advised for someone who really knows the business before commit. I think the first question you need to ask yourself is: why digital synths have become so popular?. The answer is very simple: you can save time, money and a lot of issues proper of vintage gears. So, it doesn't mean is good or bad, but just be aware about pros and cons.
Nice video! Interesting format ;)
Last vintage-ish synths I bought was a D550 module and an SY99 board. If I get the Opsix I think both will be museum-bound. You are right,.many of these new 37 - 49 key 'proper' synths are great for producing useful sounds on the fly in different environments....and also hooking them up to a Master board for full expression. The novation case station was the first keyboard that did this for me. I live in Pennsylvania and I brought that damn synthesizer with me to Peru and recorded tracks there. The Op6 does all the old 80's stuff but can also really morphine shapeshift like a modern synth...and the effects are stellar.
Respect! I am looking to buy my 1st synth soon (saving up). Actually I did own a monophonic kit synth when I was 18 (now 57). Heading towards a Roland RD 2000 or FANTOM.
All good advice Espen! Especially the processing/effects issue, you search everywhere to finally take the plunge on your “true analogue” you turn it on but dont get blown away in your first few notes...people forget that effects were all over synths in their favourite records from the 80s. Loved the still shot of your synth mountain ☺️FWIW One thing I think is worse than synths is getting into old sampling - the interface/scsi/lack of storage is such a massive hassle & learning curve I doubt its worth it at times!
Ooh, I don't know about that... Most vintage samplers, especially when they come with analogue filters or / and in 12 bit format sound absolutely incredible and are still much more affordable compared to most old synths. Seems like people are getting more and more into using them as synthesizers, not just playing back phrase loops but actually making sound design with single cycle waves.
Another cool video. I would love to collect vintage synthesizers but lack of room prevents this. But I'm more than happy with my Korg MicroStation which has everything I need from a keyboard to go along with my setup. I think sometimes you can have too many keyboards or too many VSTs on a computer which can effect workflow. I personally like to keep it simple.👍
I had a bunch over the years and now only have a couple of vintage ones...I miss them, of course, but don't miss all the problems, like you mentioned with repair and maintenance...quite frankly I prefer modern synths and means for making music now...
Unfortunately I just bought a D50 the other day... too late (and an SY99 recently that I haven't yet received.) Well, ok, I'd already accumulated 10-15 rack modules! I'm hooked now, and I love them all, but if I'd known how many days of my life I'd spend configuring and reconfiguring the whole lot of them and just staring blankly at half completed builds for hours wondering how to proceed and what to SPEND MORE MONEY ON.... Yeah, I'd do it again. It's boring in the box. To me. But it's convenient, I could easily have stayed there, and for most people I would probably recommend doing just that!
The worst thing about buying old kit is the turning it on stage with fingers crossed, esp Ebay.
@@maccagrabme Tell me about it! I managed to get this Roland from a big store with a return policy, but they supposedly tested it and then failed to include the power cable... very fishy! Today the cable arrived and I was frankly amazed to find it works without a fault. Big sigh of relief! I could barely function over the weekend waiting to find out.
Great video Espen and all valid points. The only 'vintage' synths I have are ones that I just happen to have had for a while, so nothing older than 13 years or so. Frankly, I baby my equipment and I could only entertain the idea of owning a second hand synth that was in MINT condition and what are the chances of that anyway? So for me, it's always a no. But I'm so grateful to people like yourself who keep vintage synths alive. It generates interest and it makes manufacturers want to keep releasing vintage style products.
Thanks Matthew! :)
Still can't believe i scored a Korg T3ex a few years ago in fantastic shape for 100€... What a steal...😲
All it took was a nice cleanup and re-lube on the keybed (key guides) and some contact cleaner on the buttons and sliders and it's in top shape
I just have one vintage synth--a Realistic MG-1 Concertmate (made by Moog), which I bought new around 1980. Still works, although it could stand some maintenance on the sliders. I also got a MIDI-to-CV adapter. Pretty cool to be able to control it from a DAW or MIDI controller.
With a little bit of creativity and a cheap multi-effects processor you can get very nice sounds from even the cheapest portable keyboards. For the price of ONE well-known vintage synth you might probably get two or three of those machines. Before buying, just make sure that it has AT LEAST an audio/headphone output...and hopefully (if built after the year 1982) MIDI as well. Or what about an old electric organ for a change? You might even get one for FREE because they are heavy to carry around and people very often just want to get rid of them...even in totally mint condition.
I have some old ones and some newer ones. I wouldn't buy an old synth since you can get so close with the new computer emulations but I do understand the allure. My oldist is my Minikorg that I bought way back in the early 70s. Then I hav emy Polysix. Both of these are in need of repair though. My next is my Korg Wavestation EX and then I have my lovely old Triton Pro X. My first gen Korg Kronos and my KingKorg. My latest acquisition is my Moog Grandmother. Holding off on any new toys for a while. Thanks for the great video!
Fantastic video as always. Right now I have 4 synths that are broken and awaiting pro tech love as maschine reset, replace internal batteries, and soldiering after SOMETIMES find the issue is the only thing I can do. My competence does not include to read an electrical chart service diagram On my Roland Cr78 not even a pro tech can figure out why its ok to switch on groove but not off. A detail that is very dusturbing. Soon we have replaced all parts ;)
So true ! I believe that that gear is for professionals that probably had it in the past ! Good for on stage / live performances !