New Pentax Film Camera and How Many Frames Is Enough?
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- In this Walk & Talk I share my thoughts on the new Pentax film camera, is it the right camera to enter the film camera market?
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I'm 71 yrs old and sadly too many of us wanted Pentax to make the camera of our youth. If Pentax was to do that I can't help but think that would be a very short run. I was watching another UA-cam video today and they were saying that their most watched video was about the Kodak branded H35 1/2 frame camera last year. Also several camera stores sold out on them more than once. So there is an interest there. Also as I remember it Pentax never said they were going to build another Spotmatic. They said they were going to start out with a consumer point and shoot of some type. Then maybe a semi automatic body of some sort and if the sales were there then maybe a pro type fully manual camera. This was all and still is contingent on sales and their ability to make pro type film cameras again. They never said they would build the camera of your long ago youth again. So I will buy one and use it at family functions, taking pictures of my dogs and grandkids and hope that will encourage Pentax to continue looking into and building that camera that so many of us old codgers want. Also maybe Kodak should look into making more 24 exposures rolls again
I do hope they have success with this camera, I figured they were going to make something very basic aimed for the beginner, I was just hoping for a regular size frame but I'm sure Ricoh has done there market research and will sell a bunch 😀
And that’s the point. If these don’t sell the entire project ends
The third video in the series explains the philosophy and the photographic demographic this new entry level camera is aimed at. No, it won't suit everybody, nor is it aimed at the medium to professional users alike. It's designed to introduce film to the novice and curious. It's not the sort of camera that I would likely to purchase, and of course I'm willing to retract that last statement if I do as a support for project.
I'm staying tuned well beyond this announcement to see what Pentax will offer in terms of a camera more suited to the experienced user. If a camera can 'introduce' more users to film then I would like to think that the future of film is bright. Despite its apparent number of 'cons' and a small handful of 'pros' I'm all for it. We should support an introduction of a new 'film' camera.
If it has a decent build quality I will pick it up. The range focus is ok for me especially for street photography. This half frame hopefully is just the start.
Pixels are free. Spray and pray is today’s norm. I grew up in the film age and learned to measure my shooting. I appreciate the post processing ability of digital. Film can only be manipulated by a certain amount unless you scan the image first into digital. I recently bought a used 35mm film camera and getting back into a bygone era. You are correct that it is a calculated medium with uncertainty in the outcome until you process the film.
After seeing the Pentax 17 I decided to put new light seals in my Spotmatic SP2 unwanted a full frame interchangeable lens K mount camera . I started in film and still remember each picture costs real money so I am conservative with film. I have number of M42 Takumar lenses ( 35mm3.5, 50mm1.4, & 135mm3.5)
I am not sure a half frame camera would appeal to people already using film but it may encourage others to try film which is a good thing as it will create more demand for film. What you do with the pictures is up to the individual of course but it is a bit of process getting film pictures onto social media not like using your phone.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
35mm film photographers work hard to get the best quality out of their frames. Smaller frames will make the job harder.
Hi David. On the one hand I feel as you do, but on the other I understand where Pentax/Ricoh are coming from (which they make quite clear in their latest video). This camera is the "gateway drug" aimed at enticing youngsters away from phone-ography, and after all so much marketing within so many sectors is aimed at getting hooks into an audience at a young age, and hoping that they will grow up with you. This will be the tool that makes it easy for them - each frame costing 1/2 as much, vertical composition by default for those supposedly most used to that with a phone, zone focus, auto exposure etc. But with that direct connection with the camera's mechanism via physical wind & rewind ("Clunk, click every trip"!). The irony about the "lost" engineering is that Ricoh made the 500 series fixed lens compacts in the 70s, and the gorgeous 28mm-lensed GR compact before heading over to the Digital Side! Lastly it's worth mentioning the diptych artwork enjoyed by existing 1/frame users. Thanks for highlighting the debate!
Should read diptych art form
And 1/2 frame at the end there...
It's not that difficult to put 2 frames on one canvas but I do see that as what could be a fun expressive option for sure. There seems to be some affordable reusable cameras on the market at this time, with Kodak making a half frame model as well, I hope what Ricoh puts out can stand out, I imagine the price will have a lot to do with it. If the camera is much better than what's currently available then they could own the space.
@DavidPattonPhotography For sure, if it's the stand-out offering! It's also worth supporting if it means some of the profits get reinvested into, for instance, new bodies that'll work with all those legacy lenses 😍
Nico's latest vlog on this same subject is worth a watch too.
Thanks, I will check outs Nico's video
One of the complaints that I hear about film photography is the cost of film and the processing. That pretty much parallels the situation in post-war Japan than spawned the half-frame cameras of the 50s and 60s. Now, I still shoot film, and I have medium format Yashicas and Mamiya, full-frame Canons, Minoltas, Nikons and Leicas, and a Fujica Half. People have asked, “Why the hell do you use that little half-frame camera when you have a Leica?!?” The simple answer is that it’s easy to use, takes very fine images, and is fun!!! Yes, the film cost per shot is greatly reduced, and the negatives are half the size of the full frame image. The fact of the matter is that most people - including many fellow photographers - can’t see the difference when posted online. The relative size of that half-frame image is the same as that of an APS-C digital sensor, so the prime determinants of image quality are the choice of lens and film stock. So will I buy a new Pentax half-frame camera? Maybe. I certainly don’t need one, but it would be fun for this old geezer to play with!
An interesting discussion David. I use formats from 1/2 frame to 5x7 and each has a place in my view. I talk on my blog about 1/2 frame, it’s a format that’s been about a long while, and I use an Olympus EE3 half frame specifically to create diptych, triptych etc and even linear panoramas. I doubt Pentax is admin this camera at the likes of me though … I think it’s aimed at the younger market where film is trendy apparently! Keep up the good work. Dave
Thanks Dave, it sounds like you've found an interesting and creative way to use 1/2 frame!
I agree with you. IMO, Pentax should have developed a new 645 and/or a new 67 camera. They have so much market share that to me it would have been an instant hit. According to rumors, there are other film cameras in development, let's hope a medium format one is among them!
I would totally get in line for a new 645 or 67! :)
David great video, however I can see and appreciate Pentax’s development journey, starting with a camera for young people to be attract them back to film. I believe and hope this will help them fund a range of 35mm and medium format Keep up the good work.
Great discussion , David. Yep, half frame camera won't do it for me. When 35mm cameras were cheaper, I bought a couple backup bodies , to my main cameras. When I moved to digital, I kept my same film practices. I did get a little carried away, shooting more images, than needed . Now , shooting with medium format , 6x6 , I restrict myself for 4 projects to a roll of 120 film. And usually 4 exposures to a specific subject (I'm talking barns & silos, or old buildings'). When photographing street work (without humans), I'll try to keep it to 1 roll of 35mm film, with a spare roll in my pocket. With the exception of street photography , I photograph to print, with 13x19 the largest I can print. I doubt that , the half frame camera , was designed for those who print large , just good ole snap shots. Thanks, KB
Thanks Ken, sounds like you've got a good photography approach dialed in!
As much as I was excited about the rumour, as much I'm no disappointed.
What shall I do with half a frame, and mainly in portrait orientation? There are so many great second hand film cameras around, so why pay more for a new one, which makes smaller images? If the costs worry me, I'll stay digital. I own a phone already.
Yes, a 6x9, or a 6x6 120 film camera would be great.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
The thing I love about photography is that you are free to go about it however you like. I know that people who use photography to generate an income have certain constraints, but outside of that you choose the subject matter and how many frames you want to take.
David, great points in the video. For me I only use film when I want to slow down, hopefully be a little more creative and ‘see’ more before hitting the shutter button.
Forgot to mention that I still have a working full frame Olympus Stylus 35/70 film camera. I have made some really great images over the years with that little camera.
Many years ago I also had a model of the Olympus Stylus, I loved the camera, I wish I still had one, that's the kind of camera I was hoping for. I've been thinking a lot about this topic and now I've had time to think, I'm going to do a part 2, I think I'd like to do a more positive rebuttal to this take so stay tuned Lol
@@DavidPattonPhotography 👏👍
I've already got a handful of Pentax film cameras, including a K1000 SE. Since I started out with the Pentax lens mount, on a Sears camera, I've always felt a little partial to them. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, when I was moving away from full manual, Pentax just didn't have anything that fit my needs/wants in my price range. Pentax just didn't keep up with the competition, although they have had a few good cameras through the years. I would be nice if they can develop some type of niche market with these and maybe be able to grow it from there again. I wish them all the best.
I have a few pentax cameras to include the k-50 and am not dissapointed. Also lenses from the 70's and up work on it. But to each their own. I also have a k1000 se.
Great chat👍👍I didn't hear about the half frame part. I hope they succeed but am not sure if half frame cameras are even popular?
Half frame is not for me as it can take weeks for me to get through 36 exposures. Sometimes I feel like I'm forcing it to finish a roll if I'm shooting seasonal images.😂
Thanks Mark, I'm with you, it sometimes takes me awhile to get through a 36 exp roll and I know there are times I force some shots just so I can develop the film, I'm trying to resist the urge to do that but sometimes I'm weak 😆
you are so right, screw pentax and their half an attempt at a throw away camera
Hi, Dave.
For me, quality comes before quantity.
Whether this is with film or digital.
I never take more than three shots of a composition.
And I think this is already a lot because I don't know what more recordings will give me.
When I worked with film I only made one and very occasionally two.
So I don't see why I should change this now that I'm shooting digitally.
I also photograph in square format and I don't think about how many pixels I am "throwing away".
I find the square format works well and I like the symmetry of a square format.
Again, I don't see why I would change this.
In other words, I photograph digitally, almost like I did with film.
I certainly don't like a half negative, I can't understand how they got there.
This is a very old concept because it was used in a point-and-shoot camera a long time ago.
35mm film is 35mm and in my opinion, it should remain that way.
But who am I?
What you say in this video also makes it clear that photography is in your mind and blood in your film.
A very nice video to watch and see what your opinion is about the new Pentax.
Greetings from the Netherlands,
Antoine.
Greetings Antoine, thank you for sharing!
I can understand and empathise with your viewpoint. There is still a generation of film photographers who have broadly similar views. It strikes me that Pentax is looking at how to recruit the younger generation and a few people like yourself or me. A pocketable half frame is IMHO a place to start. I have an investment in it succeeding in the hope that it may lead to a 35mm or dare I hope a MF film camera.
I think your viewpoint is on the mark and I agree with what you are saying. I made a video after this one explaining how I was wrong on some of my points, this old dog can be wrong from time to time.😆 I do hope Pentax succeeds, and even if they don't, I applaud the effort, thanks for sharing!
Nice video, Dave. At this point in my life, I really don't need another film camera. It is very nice though that they have decided to reenter the film world and folks can have a few new choices.
Thanks Terry, I would like to support a company bringing out a new film camera but unfortunately this one isn't the one, maybe there will be something else down the road.
It seems to me that they are going for as little investment in this as possible. It sounds like it's only going to be slightly above the level of a Kodak Reto. I would have prefered a full frame point and shoot with an awesome lens. I'll probably still buy it when it comes out just because I want to see what it develops into.
I wanted a brand new Spotmatic with modern tech. Maybe K mount or something. You could use those on there newer film cameras AND on your older Pentax cameras.. My heavy duty brick of metal spotmatic is still near the top of all of my 35mm cameras.. I think most people liked the K 1000 because it was more modern and had faster shutter speeds and the new K mount lens system but I do not mind a full manual lens so the older M42 lenses are still my favorite when it comes to the older Pentax cameras..
I don't mind manual lenses as well, I would like a modern light meter but everything else could be full manual and I would be just fine :)
You're right, it's not for you. I too came up through film in a professional, commercial environment back in the last century ;-) Since then I've been shooting both digital and film in different formats. Half frame negatives have about the same area as an apsc digital sensor so I'll be interested to see what Pentax can get from it. When the queue starts to form I'll be in it.
I hope you get a lot of enjoyment from the camera.
Hi David, I think you missing the fact of the target market for this new camera. It is the yang population around the world, who are not the landscape photogs. This is camera like the bridge to the film photography. I many time see students come to the phot lab with disposable cameras for film processing. Honestly - if they have this new camera they will be happy. As to why they shoot film - I guess the answer will be exactly why all today shoot film instead of digital - for that waiting moment, for that special non-perfect look. So if more people will be to the film I hope more film will be produced and price will not rise that sharp...
Yes I've been told a lot that I don't get it, 😆 with just a quick Google search I found a number of affordable reusable film cameras along with half frame options, I'm not sure what is special about another one. Ricoh must see sales there so I'm hoping they are successful. The cynical side of me hopes this just isn't marketing hype, and we will never see a functioning regular camera in the future. Luckily there are still an abundance of working and fairly affordable film cameras on the used market to meet the needs of beginning and experienced photographers for the near future. I'm old so I will probably be fine. 😆 Oh, and there's always Leica.
The satisfaction for me is composing and shooting photographs. Give me 36 full frames and it will take me at least a month to get through a roll. Secondly, I want quality in the negative and the larger the negative the better, also, more frames mean more scanning. I think this camera is designed to satisfy the hipster crowd, just snap away photos like digital.
When I use my medium format film camera I use on one photowalk one roll (6x6 12 frames). When I use my 4x5 camera I use max 8 frames of which half is backup. Yes I used to shoot digital and did more then 100 frames on one photowalk. But the keepers rate is the same. Pentax to my believe is going the wrong direction. We need an new 120mm mediun format camera and lenses. I would prefer new large format lenses.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said its not aimed at 'professional' photographers, no more than 110 cameras were back in the day. Young people that are getting into film photography are more likely to be doing the 'day to day' photography, party, days out, and that one type of photography that thrives on grain 'street'. Personally I think Pentax have done their market research on this.
Am I going to buy one - nope. When I do street photography, generally summer months when the landscape is a bit too verdant green, I'll easily shoot over 400 shots on digital as I'll be shooting in continuous. People tend to make moving targets and I know only 5% of the shots are what I was looking for. (Fairly true of most photography). A 72 shot camera isn't going to cover that base for me.
Hopefully it'll be a success and other camera manufacturers will come back into the market and take some of the strain out of the second hand sector
Like these photo walk talks David. Interesting camera but not for me either. Thanks for braving the rain.
Thanks Bill
I'm with you David. I don't see how a half frame camera will appeal to the instagram, snapchat, etc. crowd, as I don't think they are going to wait a few days while their film gets developed, scanned, edited and so on to get on social media. I also don't see Pentax trying to compete in full frame 35mm as there are plenty of K-1000's and Spotmatic's to go around. And paying triple or quadrouple the price or more, of one of those cameras doesn't make sense either. Leica is trying it with their M6, but the used prices of those are already expensive and that is a different market. I agree with you about the medium format camera. That I would like to see!
I am in full agreement with you on this. I was disappointed to say the least. I wonder how the new Rollei 35 AF will be.
I think that you're missing out on the historical reason that created the need for half frame cameras. Olympus, Canon, and other manufacturers made and sold half frame cameras as a way of making photography affordable for the masses in the post-war years.
This is the way that Pentax is thinking now with the announcement of a new half frame camera, and it might lead on to bigger and better things.
I won't be buying one because I already own and use an Olympus Pen EE and Canon Dial clockwork half frame cameras. I'm sure it will sell in large enough numbers to be called a success.
No, not the camera for me! I don't need a point and shoot. I was hoping I could have used my M-42 lens. Anyway I just bought a almost new Nikon F-100. Now I have all those F-mount lens to choose from. I like to take my time and compose the picture when using film.
I have a different mindset with I am out the digital. I still don't pray and spray. That is a waste of time looking and try to edit from 300 of same pictures.
Congrats on getting a F-100, that's a great camera!
Just look at the "contacts" tv series and you'll understand that the contemplative story about film photogtaphy is just utter BS. During the film era if you were a pro and you were able to shoot a lot of frames of the same subject YOU'D DO IT. Amateur film photographer used to shot less in order TO SPARE FILM. That's the reality.
I don’t need to watch a TV show to know what it was like to work with film, as a professional, I lived it. 😆 maybe I should have used the words being more selective or thoughtful but I don’t think being more contemplative is a bad thing for the photography I’m now doing. It’s just my opinion but that opinion is based on 25 years doing 3 to 5, sometimes more, photography assignments every working day. No, I didn’t need to use less film to save money but it was to my advantage to get the job done on as little film as possible, no one was developing my film for me, being selective and thoughtful was part of being a working photojournalist. You needed to do a good job and get the shots but you also new there were more assignments waiting for you, all needing to be done on a strict deadline. So no I wouldn’t say it’s BS, it’s just another approach to being a photographer, there is a time for contemplation and there’s a time for reaction, striking a balance can be hard at times.
I'm a Pentaxian but I found this quite boring. As for Pentax's entry into the film market where were you in the 1960s.
I have absolutely no interest in a half frame camera.
Hey Norris, I have plenty of interest. What kind of photos do you take?
I mean. Half frame is ok in my book. Daido and many other photographers created some of their best work on half frame cameras. But the vertical aspect is just a no go for me. Fuji did this with one of its medium format film cameras and I could never get my head around it.