@@emilyrln It was somewhere in between. "For LOBELIA SACKVILLE-BAGGINS, as a PRESENT; on a case of silver spoons. Bilbo believed that she had acquired a good many of his spoons, while he was away on his former journey. Lobelia knew that quite well. When she arrived later in the day, she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons."
In defense of Sam's gift. Yes, it's dirt. Yes, it's exactly zero use during the entire quest. But it's crucial in the healing of the Shire, giving Sam something that Frodo never gets: a home to go home to when the adventure is done. And Sam knows this, or at least understands its value enough that he never leaves it behind, even when he's carrying Frodo on his freakin' back up a 45-degree slope. He holds onto that box to the bitter end, and because he does, the end can be sweet.
@@prcervi Yeah, it got handwaved away by picking up on Galadriel's caution that the Mirror shows possible futures (along with past and present) and sometimes self-fulfilling prophecy kicks in.
I do feel like there is some more nuance to the Sam getting gifted dirt. Firstly, it wasn't just dirt, you find out later that the box contains a Mallorn seed, which is a rare seed. Additionally, it's dirt from her garden, so it's essentially one gardner gifting another gardner a cutting and some specialty potting mix to go with it. It kind of symbolizes a hope for the future while acknowledging what will never be again. Secondly, she didnt give everyone else weapons. Merry and Pippen already had weapons they got from the Barrow Downs, so what she gave them were nice belts. The only member of the Fellowship to get a weapon was Legolas's bow upgrade. Love the video, but just thought I'd mention this bit of nuance.
Plus, doesn't the elven dirt allow him to regrow the Shire after Saruman and his cronies completely destroy it? It's been a long time since I read The Return of the King so I could have imagined this lol.
@@peskycritter79 it definitely does something! The Shire has some extremely good harvests the years after Sam goes around using the dirt to help heal the land after Saruman's mischief.
Book Gimli got three strands of hair. You could argue that Frodo got a weapon - the captured light of Laurelin and Telperion - which later at least disoriented, and possibly burned, Shelob.
My favorite little detail from the books is when Frodo arrives at the Prancing Pony under the name "Frodo Underhill": There turns out to be a family of hobbits staying at the inn who coincidentally also have the last name of Underhill. They quickly decide that Frodo must be a long lost distant cousin and happily accept him as one of their own.
Gimli thinking so positively actually hit me hard as a kid cause all I could think is that he loved his family so much he didn't want to realise the truth. Also, finding out the actor never learnt the fight choreography and just told the stunt fighters who he was gonna hit in what order is hilarious to me
@@o0BlackSand0o haha it’s not about that - it’s about how freaking dangerous that is and the fact that if someone got injured the choreographers insurance would be on the line
I personally think the fact that Sam wasn't even hiding during the original Council is hilarious. He just went in after Frodo, stood by the wall, and stayed quiet for the majority of the meeting until he just felt he had to speak up. Honestly that is so on brand.
@@inquisitorwalmarius6650 plus he’s Frodo’s personal servant and everyone there bar Gandalf and Frodo is upper class so would subconsciously register such a person as part of the furniture and thus overlook them without thinking.
@@lordofuzkulak8308 i doubt they would be so bad as to view them as furniture, not al upper class people are arseholes. a lot of servants have led good lives under protection of their masters. but there are difference between the races so what do i know. but hobbits does feel like they encompass the old country side brittain, both good and bad.
@@inquisitorwalmarius6650 well he’s not Jeeves, so I doubt they’d pay him much mind. Though if he was Jeeves they’d all have turned to him and expected him to come up with a plan. 😆
Your re-enactment of Aragorn getting pissy about leaving Anduril with the Rohirrim guard was dead-on. It was so awkward and out-of-place, it always makes me laugh.
I could stand another acknowledgement of Fredegar Bolger, the one who stayed behind but was just as much of a friend and part of the initial plan as Merry or Pippin.
I remember getting a board game where everyone plays as one of the hobbit and reenact the journey to Mordor... and being confused that you could go up to 5 players, with the fifth hobbit being unceremoniously just called "Fat Bolger". It kind of blew my mind when I realized later that yes, he was canon. Worst part is, I already had read the books when I got the board game, yet had totally forgotten about the guy. It took me a reread to notice.
Sam's dirt being arguably the best gift is important thematically. It gives him the power to heal the Shire, at least a little bit-what else could be more valuable? Also, remember the association between kingship and healing: it is no accident that after healing the hurts of Saruman's war upon the land Sam becomes Mayor of Michel Delving and serves for nearly fifty consecutive years! Also, Merry and Pippin got belts in the books.
Sam's gift was always my favorite. First for the reasons you state , but also bc it implies Galadriel could see a peaceful future where the Shire could/would be healed.
My high school horticulture teacher would say in class “soil is what you grow plants in. Dirt is what you sweep off the floor.” And when you remember that Galadriel knew Sam was a gardener you realize just how thoughtful the gift was. Not to mention that he also got a mallorn nut, which would grow into the only mallorn tree outside of Lórien in Middle Earth.
I think my favorite detail left out with Merry and Pippen just, stealing vegetables and running off with them in the movies is that in the books they're both pretty important people as well! Like, they're not royalty but as close as hobbits get. So, it's like a band of runaway princes and Frodo's gardener.
"A band of runaway princes and Frodo's gardener" made me laugh. And it's even better when you add on Sam becoming an important figure in the Shire afterwards to the point where Gardener becomes a last name there because of him.
And Tolkien's text made that clear throughout the books and Jackson carried this into the movies - Sam ALWAYS addresses the others as "Mister..." whereas they ONLY refer to him as "Sam"...
Two words: Farmer Maggot. People might say "Who?" if they didn't read the book and that's my point. Before Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin booked it out of the Shire, they were met and helped by a hobbit by the name of Farmer Maggot. Not only was this dude a seriously nice guy, he was protective of his mushroom farm, had a pair of dogs and when the Nazgûl came to the Shire to ask about Frodo, Farmer Maggot told him, in not so rude terms, to f**k off, threatening to set his dogs on him and refusing the bribe. Yes, hobbits can be douches and yes, they can be all classically brave Bilbo and Frodo style, but it was this act of bravery that had my jaw on the floor upon the second read through.
I remember finding it so funny that Frodo was actually the one always stealing mushrooms from Maggot when he was younger and still being concerned about meeting him years later; plus, Sam still being salty with the farmer because Frodo got his ass beat by him (_years_ ago) the last time he got caught.
Let's be honest, 'be off with you' was how Maggot told the story to respectable gentlehobbits, but you know he told that black rider where to shove his gold.
My favorite difference is a casualty of leaving out Tom Bombadil (much as I agree with them leaving him out for pacing and tone). If I remember correctly, when Tom rescues the hobbits in the barrow downs, he finds them four special daggers made specifically to harm evil spirits. Wights, wraiths... you know, the exact sort of monsters they're running from. Three of the hobbits lose theirs on the journey, but Merry holds onto his allllll the way into Return of The King. As kickass as it is for Eowyn to go "I am no man!" the Witch King's "No man can kill me" crap meant MORTALS can't kill him because he has this forcefield that makes him effectively invincible. Well wouldn't you know it, this random hobbit he was chasing about a year ago stabs him in the ankle with one of the only items in middle earth that could lower his forcefield, creating an opening for Eowyn to land the killing blow. I can only imagine how gobsmacked he was, thinking "WHAT THE FU- HOW DID ONE OF THOSE KNIVES MAKE IT ALL THE WAY OUT HERE??!!"
I could be misremembering it but I thought that the dagger Mary had had actually been crafted with the sole purpose of defeating someone like the witch-king if not the witch King himself. So it was a matter of prophecy in destiny that this item had sat alone for hundreds of years only to end up in the hands of the least likely being to make sure that prophecy came true and it helped defeat this evil
@Shomba Sowab A harsh, but not uncommon view 🤣 I don't mind it, but I remember listening to the BBC Radio4 adaptation and not realising that they had cut out Bombadil, until the discussion at Elrond's Council. I didn't miss it, it's not exactly essential to the tale and reading it again, it does seem out of place.
Also Tom Bombadil's interactions with the One Ring hurts the threat of the ring. In the movies it is quite shocking when Aragorn rejects the ring, and even more shocking when Sam gives it back, but those are nothing when compares to how Tom Bombadil used it as a silly trinket. It is better in the movies that the ring is So Goddamn powerful that not even Galadriel can resist it fully instead of a random farmer being able to dismiss it as such. (Yeah I know the implication is that he is Ilu Vatar but that is subtext.)
@Shomba Sowab Bombadil as executed is weird (it reminds me of the Silver Chair), but the loss of the Barrow-Downs is very significant. In retrospect, perhaps the same plot function could have been filled by a Ranger without the confusing mysticism.
My favorite change was Arwen encountering the party on the way to Rivendell. It allowed her to be introduced in a very memorable way and establish a playful banter with Aragorn, thus making up for how little room there is to give her screen time elsewhere. Glorfindel is a cool dude in his own right but if Ori was too niche a name to drop, Glorfindel is a whole other can of worms. Glorfindel in those scenes would just be a cool Elf guy, where Arwen taking his place allowed her to be established as a major character. Without that change, her very limited screen time could've made her feel tacked on as Aragorn's love interest. That change to me highlights how well Jackson was able to condense so much into the runtime he had with these movies. It was truly a staggering achievement. And not gonna lie, I've always loved Liv Tyler's playfully smug "What's this? A Ranger, caught off his guard?" when we first meet her.
I appreciated her swap-in but where her bad-assery undercut Frodo’s show of resilience… They lost me. And then watched it six times in theatres and bought the very pretty extended editions. Sigh.
On a recent reread I was struck by the fact that Boromir is the winter travel expert, seeing as he's from a city perched on the side of a mountain, and he's extremely long suffering about Aragorn and Gandalf botching the mountain path over the misty mountains. It's just an interesting character note that he's really well versed in this but is overly aware that he's not in charge and is trying to avoid adding to their troubles by correcting those who are. A curious mix of pride and humility that doesn't have time to come across in an already packed movie.
In Douglas Adams and John Lloyd's "The Meaning of Liff", a dictionary of words that don't exist but should, this is described as a Kentish moment. I know this because my mum has used the word to describe her watching me do anything all my life
@goosewithagibus Right?! He was always going back to Gondor, and he knew his father was a total shit, but he went to Rivendale in place of his brother - but he was always about Aragorn being the King. He was a good man in the books. The film alluded to it with the play with the hobbits, but made him seem worse overall
It always amuses me that of the Fellowship in the movie, nobody looked at Legolas Sassypants Greenleaf and thought 'he should be the comic relief'. It boggles the mind, Legolas is always derping about and giggling about something. He only truly sobers up when he hears gulls cry.
Dwarves have fortunately grown on people with time, and is not looked down upon as much, these days. Even though it was a tall order, with so many short-sighted people.
My 10 favorite things that were changed or left out (although I'm sure Dominic knows these events already) in no particular order: 1. Merry actually being the one to give Gandalf the right idea on how to open the door to the Mines of Moria, not Frodo. 2. Gollum having been captured by Aragorn and Gandalf, who had him imprisoned by the Mirkwood elves, leading to... 3. Legolas showing up in Rivendell to tell them that Gollum escaped, and Gloin (who was also at the council with Gimli) being annoyed that the elves treated Gollum more kindly than the dwarves when they were imprisoned there during the events of The Hobbit. 4. Bilbo's friendship with Aragorn. 5. Legolas being a cheeky shit on Caradhras, watching Boromir and Aragorn struggle through the snow (he's kind of a cheeky shit more in the book overall). 6. The Fellowship being blindfolded when they were led into Lothlorien (at first the elves were only going to blindfold Gimli; Gimli would only agree if Legolas was blindfolded too, and Aragorn settled the dispute by saying they'd all go blindfolded). 7. Sam was with Frodo when he looked into Galadriel's mirror. It was actually Sam who glimpsed the scouring of the Shire, while Frodo saw other visions when he looked. 8. Celeborn played a bit of a larger role when the fellowship rested in Lothlorien. Some of Galadriel's lines in the movie were actually Celeborn's in the book (although it was quite common in the movie to redistribute dialogue). 9. Dominic talked about how Merry and Pippin purposely went with Frodo, but didn't mention that Frodo was pretending to move to a different part of The Shire as a subterfuge. Merry and Pippin gave Frodo a bit of shit for thinking he was actually being discrete about his true intentions when he kept muttering about possibly never seeing The Shire again. 10. Frodo faced the Black Riders in the river before Rivendell by himself (he was a lot more coherent than in the movie). I appreciate the inclusion of Arwen, but this was an excellent moment that shows how brave Frodo could be.
About number 8, while true, I find it funny that one of the few lines they did give to Celeborn "Tell me where is Gandalf, for I much desire to speak with him." was said by Galadriel in the books 😂
Point 3 leads to one of the funnier bits, where Gandalf basically tells Gloin that if they're going to rehash every issue between elves and dwarves, they might as well not bother having the Council. And Gloin apologizes and bows.
My favorite difference is the battle at Amon Hen and getting to actually see Boromir's last stand. In the book, the battle is entirely off-screen with Aragorn pretty much just stumbling on the aftermath after following the sound of the horn.
First time I read the books, when going from Fellowship to Two Towers, I had to go back and check the end of Fellowship just to make sure I hadn’t somehow skipped a chapter.
The one that always gets me is Caradhras. Saruman didn't cause avalanches, as in the movie. It was the mountain itself not liking the Fellowship for its own, unknowable reasons, causing them.
It's been years since I read it, but I swear I recall one of the Fellowship saying something like "we're going to have to turn back because of these storms. Pretty coincidental they're forcing us to take the more dangerous path, almost like Saruman made them happen. But that'd be crazy, his reach couldn't get that long so quickly." Gandalf replies with something like "Ha ha. Yeah. That'd be crazy. Ok pick up the little guys we're outtie." It sounded to me like him saying "Actually I do think our fallen-angel enemy might have got strong enough to start causing storms to annoy us, let's find a less obvious way through." Again, I read it years ago, and my reading comprehension wasn't as good back then.
@@georgepayne9381 I believe Gimli thought it was the mountain and Gandalf thought that there was a chance it was Sauron. Though neither idea was confirmed afair.
For clarification, it ws generally believed there was a malevolent spirit that dwelt near the top of the mountain, if memory serves, named Caradhras, and it was he that sent the extra heavy snow etc to the Fellowship. I remember one of the video games, one of the few that actually tried to stick to the lore, had a side quest where you could take the smegger on, though this was not a good move as he was basically an inverse Balrog, being made of ice instead of fire, and would wipe most of the party out pretty damn quick. IF memory serves, there is even a mention of Gimli shaking his fist at Caradhras dancing in the snow on top of the mountain after the "attack".
Ultimately, no, there's no indisputable answer about why it was storming on Caradhras. It's entirely reasonable that it was just bad weather and not enemy action and *that is entirely sufficient* for the narrative. But every theory on a magical reason for the storms is also just as plausible and that's kinda wild.
Since Galadriel saw what might happen in the Shire, that Saruman would burn it down, Orks running rampage, the dirt that makes plants grow fast and lush makes so much more sense though. She gave him the opportunity to heal his homeland once they succeeded. She seemed to have known that there is nothing she could give him to help along the journey, but she gave him the way to build a home for himself and his kin once he returned and I think that is beautiful.
And since it wasn’t even clear to anyone whether they’d be able to return home, it might’ve given Sam a bit of hope. “Well, if the Lady says I’ll go home and have amazing gardens, then there has to be a way to get home.” Which is pretty nice :’)
There were so many bits. -Merry spotting a troll and telling Strider, who casually saunters up and belts it with a stick, pointing out how silly Merry was to be scared of a troll in the daylight. -Sam singing about Gil Galad. That's a beautiful part of the book and gives Sam a lot of depth. -Meeting Gildor on the way out of the Shire where they point out the uselessness of asking Elves for advice. -I would have liked the Eagles to speak rather than just being Gandalf's private taxi service.
- It was mentioned in passing, but it's interesting that Frodo moved house as a way to slip out of the Shire unnoticed: Lobelia Sackville-Baggins owns Bag End only a way into the book. - Frodo was rescued by Glorfindel, rather than Arwen, Glorfindel, who is so awesome that his very aura scared away the Black Riders and who was the only elf to return from the Halls of Mandos after death. He also slew a Balrog. - The journey through Moria was decided on not because Saruman magicked up a blizzard, but because the mountain they were climbing itself was evil and was being a dick. - Saruman is no longer Saruman the white, but rather Saruman of many colours - he switched to a robe that looked white at first, but shimmered with all the colours in the spectrum. Gandalf is tricked and trapped by him because Saruman told Radagast to fetch him. Radagast also unwittingly helped him escape by sending the eagle Gwahir to bring the news of Sauron's troop movements. - The hobbits (except Frodo, who had Sting) get magic swords in the barrow of a Barrow-wight. The Barrows are the burial mounds of the fallen kingdom of Arnor, from which the rangers descend. These mounds were infested with wights by the Witch-King of Angmar to the North, you know, the main Black Rider. The magic swords were made especially to slay wights, which is one of the reasons Pippin could hurt the Witch King at the Battle of Pelenor Fields - both he and Eowyn were not "men". - The Uruk-Hai were not created from mud cocoons by Saruman, rather the implication is they were the offspring of orcs and humans. - Gollum was captured by Aragorn and brought to Mirkwood, where he was held by the elves until some orcs causing trouble allow him to escape. Legolas came to Rivendell to tell him. - Boromir came to Rivendell because he and Faramir had had dreams telling them to. - The poem "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king." was written by Bilbo at Rivendell and recited in defense of Aragorn at the council. He and Aragorn liked to compose poetry together.
Glorfindel bugged me for years. I genuinely thought that Tolkien had just recycled the name to use for a completely different character. I'm still not sure that isn't the case. Did Tolkien discuss it in letters?
The poem about Aragorn is funny because Frodo hears it read by someone and thinks it's some kind of ancient prophecy, uses it in Aragorn's defence when Boromir talks crap about him at the council, only for Bilbo to admit afterwards that he was the one who wrote it (though the prophecy does really exist, in even older manuscripts)
The realization hit me when you described Merry and Pippin leaving their houses to go steal vegetables… like the dudes really went on a life changing trip with their cousin on a whim that’s hilarious
For me, another stand out was the general personality of Merry. In the movies he was kinda a Pippin-light; someone who was still more humor-base but just enough of a relative straight-man for the true goofball to play off of him. However, and you did hint to this with how he helped protect Frodo's home and in other spots, the Merry in the book was much more protective and serious of a character. Reading the book, he felt like a Paladin-type personality who just never had the opportunity to go for knighthood. It was only his race, upbringing, and location that denied him a more fitting career. It's kinda why in the later books, his fighting for Rohan didn't feel like him going against his previous nature to become a hero; it felt more like he was finally realizing a true calling that had been denied to him his whole life.
I loved that in the books, Merry actually fought the orcs that came to abduct them, and mutilated several of them. In the end, they still got captured anyway, but it was such a nice display of his spirit. And there's also a part in Bree where he saw a nazgul (or what appears to be a nazgul) and actually followed it to see where it went, even though he was terrified.
Merry was always my favourite hobbit growing up, so when the movie came out, I noticed his differences the most. I like movie Merry too, but I would have loved to see a bit more of his map & research loving side. I think he does make one small comment in the extended version when they're in Rivendell, but selfishly, I would have loved more.
And Pippin being goofy was due to him being the Hobbit equivalent of a 10-12 year old, whereas Merry was the equivalent of a 15-17 year old (the same as Sam) and therefore more serious, and protective of Pippin as a little brother (if memory serves, it's been literally 20 years.)
It's a very little thing, but absolutely terrified me when I read it: the scene where Pippin knocks the suit of armour down the well and then gets yelled at in the movie is a bit more low key in the book. He still gets yelled at in the book, but the reason Gandalf tells him "throw yourself in next time" is because he was tossing rocks down... Until all of a sudden, something at the bottom of the well picked a pebble up and started tapping back, like the world's creepiest Morse code.
Almost. it was *one* piece of rock (more specifically, a remainder of the old well lid that had long ago been broken), it just took a while to reach the bottom and make a sound. And the sound that came back (more precisely, *two* sounds, seemingly exchanging signals) was that of a hammer, as Gimli points out. But yes, it's quite creepy.
Tolkien doesn't get enough credit for how damn scary LOTR could be. Something that unsettles me every time I read it is when Frodo faintly hears Gollum's arrhythmic footsteps in Moria, and no one else does (because the Nazgul's blade enhances his senses, if I recall correctly). For some reason, little things like that, and the examples you mentioned, creep me out more than any straight up horror book. Stephen King hasn't scared me as much as the fantasy genre has.
@@jarltrippinStrider does. Aragorn specifically mentions to Frodo that He knew Gollum was following them. He probably told Gandalf as well while they were in Moria. In the book Frodo overhears Gandalf and Strider debating their course when they did not realize Frodo was awake. Its clear that Aragorn and Gandalf had lots of secret conversations about how dangerous their road was becoming but kept it secret so that the Fellowship would not become overly frightened.
@@jarltrippin People get into the habit of thinking of LOTR as "the original epic fantasy", and it is, but that means they frequently forget how much straight-up HORROR is woven through it. The Willow, the Barrow-downs, the Nine Riders, the creepiness in Moria, quite a bit of Frodo and Sam's journey post-split, the ghost army; SHELOB. Even, arguably, Denethor's death. There are a lot of crucial sequences that go beyond "dramatic tension" and incorporate horror elements. I also personally find the horror in LOTR more effective than a lot of works in the horror genre. Maybe it's because it's interspersed with other types of narrative, so each time it comes up, it's always a smack in the face? I don't know. (Movie-wise, I'm sure that PJ's background in horror films led to him adapting those bits with particular relish. But it's definitely not a case of a horror direction punching up the horror elements; I look at it as more of a case of a horror director really recognizing those elements and treating them as they deserve.)
The fact that, in the book, Sam, Merry, and Pippin already knew about the ring long before Frodo told them about it, and had formed a secret conspiracy group around it.
Book Isildur didn’t turn evil when he got the ring, (he realized he’d messed up by not destroying it and was taking the ring to Rivendell when the orcs attacked him), which is part of the reason book Aragorn wasn’t so hung up about being descended from him
Also Isildur never went to Mount Doom with Elrond, so he never got that single dramatic moment where he made an active choice to not destroy the ring. (Although including these kinds of scenes works a lot better for a movie, even if it makes minor characters more shallow.) I do wonder if Isildur would have been able to go through with giving up the ring had he actually made it to Rivendell.
Which also makes the movie hilarious in terms of elrond complaining about isildur considering that all he had to do was swinging his sword and cut that f****** head off and kick his body into the lava Elrond: it is the fault of mine that the ring still exists, gandalf Gandalf: yes. It's too bad that there was no one there that could have, I don't know, shoved isildur over the edge when he was walking past them and ended all of this. Or commanded their armies to shoot him full of a bunch of arrows. Or done literally anything to stop him from walking away with the greatest evil known. Elrond:... Yes. Tragic that
@@defender2222 Killing Isildur would have been the worst thing to do. He was King of Gondor and Arnor at that point, probably the most powerful person in Middle Earth. It would be starting a massive war the elves would have no way to win. Plus killing him because of the ring would have almost certainly led to Elrond falling to the ring. It's literally the worst possible idea.
@@defender2222 Haha, I get where you're coming from with them being so close to destroying the ring in the movie, but if you had just narrowly won a long and costly war against the forces of darkness thanks to a fragile alliance between Elves and Men, would you be rushing to murder your ally's king-in-waiting (who also happens to be an actual close friend) and start a whole new war over a long term concern? In hindsight the argument for it being the right thing to do is obvious, but if he'd actually done it, Elrond likely would have been deposed on the basis of being a bloodthirsty lunatic, at best. In full context, I'd argue that movie Elrond is actually less culpable for the survival of the ring than book Elrond, because at least he got a lot closer to convincing Isildur to destroy it, even if neither version was willing to take that decision away from him by force.
I'll add a few. 1) Frodo spent a long time planning how he would leave the Shire without anyone noticing, which involved buying a freaking house just to abandon it (it's worth noting here that he's also fantastically rich, being the heir to a guy who took a large chunk of a dragon's treasure hoard). 2) Bree is inhabited both by "big folk" and by hobbits. 3) Elrond tried to talk Merry and Pippin into going back to the Shire instead of joining the Fellowship, arguing that they could help guard it from Sauron's minions. And it turned out that he kind of had a point. 4) Boromir never intended to follow Frodo to Mordor, he was basically just tagging along on his way back home to Minas Tirith. And Aragorn was planning to go with him. 5) Gandalf WANTED to go through Moria, it was Aragorn that objected to it. 6) Saruman had nothing to do with the the snow storm that blocked the pass of Caradhras, sometimes bad weather just happens. 7) Like the whole first half of the book is spent building up this thematic thing about Gondor's fallen sister kingdom and how Aragorn and the other Rangers are the remnants of that fallen kingdom and how meaningful it is that Sauron's fall is started by the Rangers returning to Gondor, and yeah that's all very interesting but the movie can't be six hours long so there's no way any of it was usable beyond one line where Aragorn says "this place used to be a watchtower, neat huh?"
I suppose the movie hints at there being hobbits in Bree because none of the men there seem surprised or even that interested in them being hobbits, unlike how men in the south act.
I love that in the book that when Frodo is there as 'Mr Underhill' he meets some hobbits of the family Underhill that live in Bree, and they're very quick to accept his story. (Assuming that he's some sort of distant cousin).
The Anduril thing is because on big change, Elrond wasn't as much of a dick in the books. Elrond was a lot more supportive both of Aragorn himself, Aragorn's marriage with Arwen and of mankind in general. He was highly dissapointed in Isildur but recoganized his friend had fallen due to the power of the ring and knew that any elf trying to weild the ring likely would have fallen to the power just as easily and would have been way more dangerous. The only reason Aragorn and Arwen aren't married at the start of the story is because Elrond refuses to allow Aragorn marry Arwen until Aragorn becomes official royalty aka take back Gondor. This isn't because he wants Aragorn to die but because he confidently believes in his future son in law who is engaged to Arwen and sees this as a way to push Aragorn to become king of Gondor. Not that Aragorn didn't need motivation as he was swinging around the shards of narsil before they were even reforged and was such a cool guy in the books that he almost convinced the Uruk-Hai NOT to attack Helms Deep. So yeah Elron being a big dick in the movies and Aragorn being a reluctant king? Major changes from the books.
And let's not forget that elrond was basically aragorn's adopted father. He raised him after the deaths of his father and then later his mother. So he was just trying to get a man that he saw as one of his sons to reach the full heights that he could. Which also makes the removal of elrond's sons a bit disappointing because they had a very brotherly relationship with Aragon
@@defender2222 Also, where in the movies Elrond seems judgmental of Arwen choosing mortality for love, book Elrond would never do that, because he was, in fact, Elrond, motha-lovin, Halfelven, and in fact, both his twin brother and great-grandmother, yanno the most beloved elf of yore Luthien, had made the same choice.
The whole "Hobbits kinda suck" thing resonates so well with me ^^ I'm German not British, but the town I used to live in still had some of this left over. There was a rivalry between the north and south half of the town, to the point that even though they were 5 minutes walk apart, they counted as two different towns. This must have been so much worse back in Tolkien's day, and even worse in the middle ages. I think it comes from the fact that it was much harder and a lot less necessary to travel even to the next big town, so "those other folk" would include people very close to you, not just people in other states or nations.
They also remind me of Austrians (and I am one too). West Austrians are not to fond of people from Vienna (east Austria in general) and reversed and everyone who moves to a village in Tyrol is treated as a foreigner his/ her whole live who dosn't really belong there and who has to be mistrusted and is frowned abone sometimes that treatment lasts up to the next generation .
I know I'm late commenting, but it's not so much the medieval mentality being represented with the hobbits, but rather the victorian Little Englander mentality, which is still very prevalent in rural England.
@@Tom-mk7nd Yeah, this was Tolkien being classist. Hobbits have gentlemen and peasants just like England did/does. The Hobbits are English, and he def gives the peasant Hobbits bad characteristics. But that’s not meant to describe all Hobbits, just the peasants. Hobbits are given overall positive traits because they represent the English overall. The stark cultural difference between gentry and commoners is subtle in the book because it would have been totally understood and second nature to any of the assumed audience, nothing that needed explanation or calling out. Anyone rich enough to have a full-time gardener or manservant is not a peasant.
One book to film difference that is quite often overlooked is that Gandalf actually touches the ring before throwing it into fire. He is kinda reluctant to take it, and holds it briefly. He is powerful enough to resist it for a few moments, but I get it why they changed it for the movie; it makes the temptation seem that much stronger.
"the thing i'm apparently still doing" but Dom, i have so much fun with these. The perspective you have started putting into them, making it clear that *sometimes* a change is required because of the change in media. Anyways, do what makes you happy, just know that this series is one of my favorite things on youtube
Never clicked on a video so fast :) I’m really hoping that whole rule of “The LOTR Lost in Adaptions will be the last LIAs ever made” no longer applies
Given the way this is just a list of ten adaptation changes and not a standard Lost In Adaptation, I think it's safe to assume that he's not done with this series yet
Honestly my favorite difference between the two seems to be entirely centered around the fact that they're completely different mediums. The books give so much history and context to *everything* that would just utterly bog a film down were it to be included, so Peter Jackson did the smartest thing he could have: He changed it from being a very world-based story to a very character-based story.
Yeah, when you listen to the audio commentary, Jackson, Walsh and Boyens main reason for changing things can always be boiled down to "we wanted to give an arc to that character". One that stuck with me is that they puposefully cut the two characters that resist the ring, Bombadil of course, but also Faramir. In the book, Faramir don't give a shit about the ring, he promised to let Frodo go, so he let him go even after seeing the ring. In the movie, he kidnap them for a while and have to make a real effort to let the ring go ^^
He could have cut some of those romance scenes and added more book stuff...the prancing pony is one of my favorite parts, and it's criminally cut down in the movie 😭
@@krankarvolund7771 Not every character needs an "arc", especially when you have no time at all to develop it. Movie!Faramir doesn't work at all because there's no time spent developing/explaining his characterization, nor *showing* how and why he changes his mind at the end. He acts one way the entire time and then acts another way at the end of the story. That is not good writing.
The books are incredibly Hobbit-centric in a way the movies just aren't. The books are all about how these (very modern) characters are ennobled by the (very medieval) world and characters that surround them. Aragorn isn't meant to feel relatable, he's meant to be mythic. The Hobbits are meant to be the modern characters readers relate with as they grow and change due to their interactions with a high and mythic world.
@@brooksboy78 I didn't say that it always worked or was well written, I said that it was the philosophy behind their choices ^^ Personally, I prefer book Faramir to movie Faramir, even if he deminish the impact of the Ring by refusing it, he's more impactful and developped like that. But it was not what the three writers of the movie wanted ^^
_raises hand_ Aragorn was born in 2931, and the Council of Elrond was in 3018. Yes, he was 87 during the Ring Quest. The Dúnedain were ridiculously long-lived, which raises questions about just how human he was.
He was human in that he had a mannish fëa (soul). So did Arwen, after choosing to be mortal. Only half elves could choose, or the descendants of half elves who chose to be elves. See Elrond and his kids. If the half elf chose to be mortal, they and all their descendants would be as well. See Elros and that entire line down to Aragorn.
Well, he's part of the line of Numenor, and that royal line was founded by Elrond's twin brother, Elros. (Both of them being Half-Elven, Elrond chose his immortal side, while his brother Elros chose to give up his immortality and become human. So there's that dimension to Elrond's reluctance to see Arwen do the same thing for Aragorn -- Elrond has already seen one relative do that, and had to watch him die of old age, even though Elros lived for hundreds of years more than a normal human would.) Anyway... the implication is that the Numenorean line, being descended from the Half-elven Elros, was magically longer-lived than normal humans. IIRC, Aragorn would not live as long as Elros had, the line had lost a bit of its potency over the years, but he would live for a long time, and age slowly. Just one more benefit of being King of Gondor.
So, between the council of Elrond and Frodo inheriting the ring are some 20 years. And between the events of the Hobbit and Frodo receiving the Ring are some 50 years? So Aragorn was a teenager around the time The Hobbit happened?
Holy sheet, I snorted soda up my nose & started crying/laughing with the Dom-imagines-Sam's-happy-rope-dance scene. Thanks Dom, needed that today. Please do the next two!
Personal favourite, the fact that in my first reading of fellowship… Arwens presence just completely slipped by me. Having her actually do something and interact with Aragorn is quite nice.
Seconded! It was honestly a masterful adaptation choice to have her replace glorfindel (who iirc is never majorly relevant in the books again) and give her a moment of girlbossery before she goes back to languishing under a dream sequence bloom filter for most of the trilogy.
I'll be honest, Arwen is kinda unimportant and her fending off the Nazgul in the movie is kinda absurd. In the book the reason the riders flipped out was because Glorfindel showed up; an elf who soloed a Balrog, oh and was resurrected back in the 1st/2nd Age. And he's an ELF, not an angel/maiar like Gandalf. So resurrected badass elf warrior vs female elf of epic lineage. One of these things makes sense to be afraid of, the other not so much.
My favorite change in the film that I think really exemplifies why they’re such good adaptations is the line “I’ve thought up an ending for my book, “and he lived happily ever after tile the end of his days.”” In the book it’s one of many lines Bilbo is throwing out to try and distract Gandalf when he’s come to tell him to give the ring to Frodo. Jackson and the screenwriters recognized that line would work much nicer as the top to the scene end it on a nicer note and it works wonderfully in the film.
All the singing in the books is the influence of Kalevala, the Finnish epic, on Tolkien. In Kalevala, magic is done by singing and the wizard character, Väinämöinen, sings things into being. Gandalf was basically based on Väinämöinen, too.
I've heard that another paralell to Kalevala could be the creation of Sampo, a powerful...thing(?) That was of great value. Though I think stories of the Nibelung ring is closer to the themes of ltr.
Important to note: Frodo is 33 (equivalent to our 18) at Bilbo's birthday and 50 when he leaves the Shire, but the book also notes that he doesn't age at all in between those times because he had the Ring. He would have looked extremely youthful, despite being 50.
Frodo is also telling Boromir off when he throws a rock into the pool in front of moria. He says something like "We all hate it here, Boromir, but there is obviously a monster in this water. Don't wake it up". Which is pretty much exactly what a parent would say to his impatient son.
19:19 Even funnier, when he mentions the ropes in the boats, Galadriel is sad he hadn't mentioned his passion earlier because she would have made sure he was taught to make it by their finest ropemakers had she known.
My head canon is that he does get tutoring from Lothlorien ropemakers post-war. I'm sure at least one came with her to Lindon when she sailed into the West.
I think the change to give aragorn the sword so late works quiet well. in the books, aragorn is already the soon to be king from the get go and acts as such, while in the movies he feels very reluctant to accept this part of himself. finally taking up the sword shows him growing past that and accepting who is meant to be.
Giving Aragorn a character arc was the best decision Jackson ever made. It adds so much not just to Aragorn and the story in general, but to other characters who interact with him. Aragorn and Boromir's relationship is my favourite part of Fellowship.
I like most of what they did to him, but they could've kept Elladan and Elrohir showing up in place of Elrond and just let them bring the sword, that would've at least made a bit more sense logistically. I guess they just didn't want to introduce more characters, but it still feels a bit on the odd side.
@@ozzyp97 They could have had all the Dunedain rangers if they had any sense. The whole "army of dead" was really out of place in my opinion and made the movies less realistic.
@@dinmavric5504 That's another thing, though my main problem is that they skipped the corsairs and brought the Army of the Dead to Pelennor. I feel it takes away from the achievements of everybody else, sort of like the elves showing up at Helm's Deep.
Here's a bit more about Barliman Butterbur, the Prancing Pony Publican from the book. Once Gandalf escapes from Saruman he goes to the Prancing Pony. Butterbur admits to not sending the letter and is prepared for Gandalf to roast him, but Gandalf is thankful that somehow Frodo ended up with Aragorn (despite Butterbur thinking that it was a bad idea because he thinks Strider is a bit sinister) and blesses the beer. When Gandalf and the Hobbits return to the Prancing Pony after destroying the ring in Return of the King, Butterbur is glad to see they're all still alive and confirms that his beer has been supernaturally good ever since Gandalf blessed it.
I think the change of Aragorn was one of the biggest. Book Aragorn was fully aware and prepared to be king of Gondor. He accepted it and was pretty damm stingy at times when his authority got questioned from "lesser men". He IS a king in the making and simply waiting for "The right time". Movie Aragorn was aware of his role, but didnt want to and had to do the classic "Hero´s journey" until accepting that he is worthy of that title. He is way less stingy about people not treating him with enough respect because he doesnt want to be seen as a king.
I got the opposite impression. You have to remember characters havent read the book. He had no rational path to being king. His family had fallen irrevocably. He became a ranger. Not a mercenary. Not a lowly officer in some kingdom. He became an independant servant of no man who used his skill to do good in the world. His birth and upbringing just gave him self confidence. He fought off the wringwraiths. He served hobbits..the lowest of the low. Then he used his name and birth to convince other men to follow him in defeating evil...a suicide mission to save the lowest..and the world.
Here's an interesting fact about the movies: The sword master that taught Viggo Mortensen all of his action scenes stated that Viggo was the most naturally talented swordsman he had ever trained. Total sidebar: That post-credits bit was perhaps my favorite that I've ever heard! I will be chuckling for days I kid you not.
Just add to this so people understand why this is a big deal: the swordmaster is considered one of the greatest trainers of swordsmen in all of Cinema. The man trained Errol Flynn who is Ben long considered one of the greatest swordsman ever on screen. So it is a huge f****** big deal that he considers Vigo to be far better of a swordsman
@@agentspaniel4428 Yeah I recently looked him up when I learned his name and he has also done choreography for pretty much all of my favorite movies lol
my favorit difference in the movie is the expansion on boromirs character, having him trying to teach the hobbits fighting and them defeating him by faking injury to establish him caring for them for example wihch is just adorable. Only beaten by the fact that when they prepare his funeral, Aragorn takes his vembraces as token and wears them for the rest of the movie and not just that, in Awrens vision of his death, he still wears them!!!
@@edopronk1303 i might have watched those movies and behind the scenes material to them more then is health..... Then of cause there are the audio books, audio play, podcasts.... I might be a little obcessed 😅
I kinda wish they kept in the scene from Caradhras when Gandalf gets grumpy about Legolas skipping around without falling through the snow and sends him to fetch the sun to thaw them a path. And Legolas just kinda goes with a smile on his face. But in that case, they'd have to establish Legolas as the slightly naive, easily excitable young elf he's in the books (not to say he's not badass of course, just remember he oneshot a winged beast in complete darkness)
7:20 The blood sacrifice by a ghost is a significant part of the book for reasons outside of Lord of the Rings. Both it and Éowyn are inspired by the Norse legend of Hervor and her cursed sword Tyrfing, a favorite of Tolkien’s. Unfortunately, other than some random swords in a handful of video games being named Tyrfing, this inclusion in Lord of the Rings marks the last pop culture reference to Hervor ever since. Seriously, she’s a really cool character with a fun story, and she appears nowhere in modern adaptations or reinterpretations of anything. Éowyn was her last shout-out, and it’s not even the same character. (The ghost scene was a reference to how she claimed her sword from a legion of ghosts, except the hobbits all got magic swords from one ghost. It being magic is why Merry’s was able to hurt the Witch-King of Angmar.)
Before I even watch, this video title terrifies me because I remember you said that you wanted TLOTR movies to be the very last LiA you ever did … Dom, buddy, please tell me you’re not leaving!
I was thinking the exact same thing. I keep saying, if he wants to do a LiA on The Lord Of The Rings but he doesn’t want it to be his last video ever, he can just do it on Ralph Bakshi’s animated version from 1978. A lot of people like to give that movie a lot of shit, but personally I always really liked it. As one who has read the books and seen the movies, it was surprisingly faithful to the source material despite being so heavily condensed, with the first two books being crammed into a 2 hour long movie.
My favourite difference is the way Boromir is presented. In the film, from literally the first scene, it’s so clear that he will be playing the part of Judas in this story. “Gondor needs no king.” In contrast, book Boromir is introduced coming to the defence of Rohan when their allegiance is called into question and revealing he took on the quest to spare his brother coming to risk. His eventual betrayal therefore is more surprising and is a greater display of the Ring’s corrupting power
I like how it's made clear that the ring latches on to him because of his desire to do good in the movie. He starts off as suspicious, but over time you also get to understand why. No-one else in the fellowship really wants or needs it. Instead the emphasis is placed on his redemption and his ability to inspire Aragorn.
Boromir's betrayal in the book is genuinely gut wrenching, you can see why it happens but there's still such a change in him. He's absolutely terrifying in that moment. In the films it just seems so obvious that it is going to happen, and when it does Boromir seems more whiny than malicious, it doesn't have the same effect to me.
Not sure if this counts for this book, since it's technically in Towers, but Boromirs final words to Aragorn was the death speech Bookomir deserved. Generally...Boromir is much nicer in the books and his character is much more tragic. He's corrupted by the ring in the same way Gandalf feared he himself would be and it happens as several paths of the fellowship keep ending up in danger. In the book Gandalf was the one that wanted to go through Moria from the get go. It was Aragorn that argued against it, because both had heard rumors about what dwells in the deep. You also talked about Gimli becoming more of a comic relief. I think the same applies to Peregrin and Meriadoc. They were quite young for Hobbits, but they're more witty, than comical. Especially Merry has his shit together and organizes Frodo leaving the shire quite well.
Yeah, Merry & Pippin seem to be mostly treated as a joke in the movie, while in the books they definitely had some moments where they showed their intelligence.
The moment where they swear to go with frodo, despite them knowing how dangerous it would be is so moving, and the film simply had them join roads by pure comical chance
These two were my favorite characters, and the movies did them so dirty. :( Not only were they both loyal and intelligent in the books, but they have rank, which they handle in very different ways to each other. Merry is a severe badass and super protective of his friends, while Pippin is pretty much an impulsive teenager (not in human years, but in hobbit years he's still a minor, and very much acts like it at times) who is very social (and gets lonely if he's seperated from his friends for like 3 days) and has a lot of thoughts and feelings about just about anything (I would say that he is often the relatable character for the average reader whenever Sam isn't). In the movies, they are two random clowns. :/
Alright, you asked for it. (you hit on a lot of good ones already) Gandalf threw a little pyrotechnic flash over Bilbo’s party vanishing act in order to throw off suspicion about his sudden disappearance (presumably making it look like he instead had made Bilbo disappear). Glorfindel met them after Weathertop instead of Arwen. Frodo was placed on Asfaloth (horse) and objected to riding to safety without his friends because he could still freaking talk instead of making noises like a wounded falcon. He alone rode away from the Nine (after he was assured that the wraiths only wanted him and the Ring) thanks to magic elf horsie and waved his little looted sword and told them to go back to Mordor before the river (spelled by Elrond) rose against them and Frodo fainted onto his broken sword. Merry and Pippin didn’t just go along, Sam spied for them for Frodo’s sake and they formed a conspiracy to make sure he didn’t go alone. Tom. Bombadil. After they had dinner in Bree, Merry went for a freaking walk in the dark! Even Butterbur couldn’t believe it when he heard. And Merry nearly got taken by Black Riders who were weirdly scared off by a hobbit. Their ponies were all stolen while they were in the Inn and Butterbur felt so bad he paid them back. They had to buy one off of a dirtbag spy who had mistreated it and Sam pampered it along the way until it was a strong and healthy pony he named Bill. After he set it free, it found its way to safety (Butterbur’s inn, I believe) and Sam got it back later. Aragorn actually lit the fire on Weathertop because wraiths can see in the dark anyway. So all the people acting like the hobbits instead of Frodo were idiots were much mistaken. Pippin didn’t knock an armored skeleton down the well in Moria. He just threw a pebble (learning nothing from the creature in the water outside). Gandalf reacted just as badly. There was a warg attack in the wilderness. Gandalf drove them away with wizard fire and that was what Sam really called “an eye-opener and no mistake.” Sam “didn’t drop no eaves” in broad daylight. Frodo, Sam and Pippin met elves before leaving the Shire and spent a night in their camp for safety. I believe it might have actually been Gildor who told Sam not to leave Frodo. Saruman went through a whole “they said i was mad, who’s mad now!” kind of rant before imprisoning Gandalf, after saying he was no longer Saruman the White, but Saruman on Many Colors(!) at which point Gandalf realized his robes were woven of tiny colored threads that looked white together from a distance. Gandalf dryly commented (I kid you not), “I liked white better.” The Ring slipped onto Frodo’s finger in the Prancing Pony because Frodo had jumped up onto a table to distract everyone from Pippin’s stupidity (talking way too much) and they asked for a song. Frodo had his hand in his pocket, fell off the table after stepping on some dishes during his encore, the Ring slipped on, and he seemed to fall through the floor. The guests were not pleased and neither was the proprietor. Sam went with Frodo to see Galadriel’s mirror. He was the one to see the Shire burning and his Gaffer turned out of his home. Frodo was allowed to walk in the woods to clear his head when they were deciding whether to split up. Boromir was the one who slipped away to “talk” to him. Boromir was pierced by many arrows. Three of the size of those in the film are enough to kill any man, but it was implied that Boromir actually took more before falling. In Rivendell, Bilbo referred to Aragorn by the name “the Dunedain” and got him to help him write a song /poem which he performed for the elves, asking them to guess which parts were written by each. Bilbo attempted to volunteer to take the Ring to Mordor. He was calmly talked down. Rivendell was also where Frodo first saw Arwen and was low-key a bit smitten with her. Not like Gimli with Galadriel but definitely got his breath taken. And as far as I can tell, whatever past objections might have arisen, by the time of the Fellowship, Elrond had pretty much reached a “fine, screw it, you won’t like it but you won’t listen, do what you effing want I guess” kind of acceptance of Arwen’s choice of men. I could probably find more. I think these are all reasonably accurate. They don’t make me as angry as some in later films, but some were mightily disappointing. I liked the part where Frodo rode alone before the Nine. It was exciting.
Nice collection! May I add one more? It's a pretty big and yet seemingly elusive one (the Bakshi movie did it wrong, as well, and I misinterpreted it the first time *reading* the book, but yes, it's stated in there). Namely: The Nazgûl did NOT enter the inn in Bree to attack the hobbits. They corrupted the townfolk to do it for them.
It's a minor point but when Gandalf goes to Saruman Orthanc is still surrounded by grass and trees, while in the book it's already turned into the industrial zone that it becomes in the second film. It's another instance of messing around with time, Saruman didn't build a massive orc army in months, he'd been doing it for years (and breeding Uruk Hai from orcs & men, but that's a change for the net LIA).
Weathertop isn't nearly as much of a structure in the books, and Gandalf had a whole ass magic battle on it with the Nazgul that Frodo saw from a distance one night.
Also book Legolas was kind of an idiot. Not that he was stupid. He was pretty smart. He was just strange. Probably due to him growing up in Mirkwood and living a sheltered life. He acted somewhat like a child, despite being centuries older than his fellow companions. He knew much about (Elven) history but he knew near to nothing about the normal world. His knowledge about Gondor and Rohan was pretty much non existant. Also the reason why he was in Rivendell was to inform Elrond that the elves of Mirkwood had f*cked up the one single job they had. Guarding Gollum. Than there is that part in "Fellowship". When the company tries to cross the mountains and are ankle deep in snow. Legolas just straight up abandons them, claiming to go "search for the sun". Even after coming back he jokes, oblivious that some of the company are close to freezing. Also he wasn't such a badass in the books. Often running out of arrows in the mids of battle. And having to stop fighting to forage for more. That's why Gimli always won their little competition.
The word you're looking for is "ignorant." He also doesn't abandon them, he was trying to see how far away the path down was and came back to them to communicate that information.
I just find it funny how Glorfindel gets excised from adaptation twice now. Also fun fact, in the book because the text was somewhat vague as to whether or not Durin’s Bane had wings this sparked a debate that lasted decades as to whether it or balrogs in general had wings.
I'm leaning towards them having wings, or at least some of them. They are spirits that chose their forms, after all. After the Fellowship leaves Lothlórien they are ambushed by orc archers as well as a vast, flying shadow on wings (it was night) that reminded Gimli of the Balrog. Legolas shoots it down before they figure out what it is, but it's pretty clear it's actually a Ringwraith riding on a fell beast after we learn more about them in the later books. However, I don't know why it would remind them of Durin's Bane if it didn't have wings.
My favorite discrepancy (other than the time crunch thing) is that Gandalf WANTED to go through Moria, while Aragorn was against it. I infer that old elf-wand was on a mission to rid Middle-Earth of all her nasties and knew he had to face the Balrog (which was also his motivation to take down Smaug), even if he had to die to do it.
I think it's not in so many words, but, with Smaug, as with the Balrog -- it would not be good if those two were still around, and Sauron happened to get ahold of the One Ring after all. Sauron would have enlisted them on his side, and done a lot more damage than he could "just" with an orc army. (And there is certainly a persistent thread of Gandalf and others having *hope* that Frodo will succeed, but like... not being blind to the possibility that he will fail and Sauron will get the Ring.)
I know! Especially since the last time Aragorn traveled through there, he felt evil was far stronger in that place. But Gandalf just thought Aragorn was just imagining things.
Those Noldorim daggers that Merry and Pippin got from Galadriel were not a thing in the book. They actually took them from the Barrowdowns on the way to Bree. And the one that Merry stabbed the Witch King with was loaded down with all sorts of Witch King hateing magic because the Barrowdowns used to be one of the three petty kingdoms that Armor split into back in the day.
to be honest, i always saw galadriel`s gift of lothlorien soil to sam as an assurance that he would make it home to plant something in it. galadriel`s gift to sam was hope.
The other reason tolkein included a lot of the singing was that it did some pretty good background worldbuilding for him. A lot of the songs are about people or things in the history of middle earth, many of which are relavent to characters perspectives or motivations and help build the flavor of the world. We dont need Aragorn and Arwens parallel to beren and luthien explained to us because Aragorn took an in universe moment to revisit their story in song. Its a really effective alternative to passages of text explaining the worlds history.
I think it's a bit depressing that the Return of the King, even the Extended Cut, couldn't fit in an extra ten minutes to show that Denethor had a Palantir. So much of his madness and malicious demeanor was the result of Sauron - and even a little bit of Saruman - corrupting him quietly as the Steward actively used the orb to survey the land of Gondor and know in advance when attacks were coming so he could send his favored son to head them off. Considering the damage that was caused by the one other Palantir shown in the films, it would have been so fitting to include the one Denethor had as well - you could have even easily had him holding it on top of the funeral pyre, since he had the torch in one hand and his other was just... empty.
And the fact that Aragorn was able to direct his gaze through that palatier to other places. Without that strength, all that could be seen were the burning hands of Denethor.
Ahh feck I completely forgot about this. I always hated Denethor (hell, he became a meme in the 'worst fictional fathers' category) but this actually explains a lot :O
Probably been mentioned, but Merry & Pippin drinking the entdraft which made them grow rapidly. In the books their height is referenced. It's even mentioned in the extended versions but at the end of the movies they are no taller than Sam & Frodo.
im sure you knew this one but I love in the book how Tom Bombadil is just so crazy powerful that Frodo is like 'why can't we give him the ring?' and the answer is basically that hes so strong it would mean literally nothing to him and he'd probably just misplace it in the forest somewhere. Just love the idea that everyone else in the series is going nuts trying to hold on to this thing and Tom would be like 'oh what ever happened to that ring I was supposed to keep an eye on? well, no matter, I have trees to sing to. lalaaa...'
There's a UA-camr who has a series on What If scenarios in LotR, and one of them is about this very thing. They get all the way to Mount Doom before realizing Bombadil dropped the ring near the Black Gate because he didn't like how heavy it was getting. It's hilarious
Sam's gift shows a lot of confidence from Giladriel that Sam would EVER SURVIVE to make it home and plant. Maybe she had some kind of vision of him or something
19:20 Sam: ...dirt. this is a jar of dirt Galadriel: yes Sam: is, is the jar of dirt going to be helpful? Galadriel: if you dont want it, give it back Sam, clutching the jar close: no!
Book Aragorn was basically Monkey D Luffy, as he always introduces himself by going "I'm Ara G. orn and I'm gonna be king of the Gondorians!" For non book readers; Aragorn pulling the king card is absolutely accurate to his book character
I always loved Sams giftbox of dusty "dirt" flakes and the Mallorn seed. It symbolises hope for peace to come. Frodos gift was hope in darkness, Sams was hope in light. Sam just took a rope from the boats they used when leaving Lothlorien. Just imagen you've just goten some gift just for the same thing to lay on the bottom of everyones boats, thats one way to make one feel insignificant.
Absolutely do this for the rest of the series! Pretty please! As for changes, I recently read Bret Devereaux' series on the realism of the Siege of Gondor and the Battle of Helm's Deep (It is fantastically nerdy reading), and he points out that a big difference between Tolkien's battles and Jackson's battles is that Tolkien's battles have moral victories, while Jackson's have mechanical victories. I had not considered this before. Tolkien's battles are overwhelmingly about which side manages to maintain hope and unity in the face of despair, while with Jackson it's more of an arms race.
A part that is fascinating to me is how many lines from the book are said word for word but completely change meaning because of the context - Treebeard being one of the most noticeable exemples
I would have liked to have seen the Scouring of the Shire in the movies, but I also like the ending as is, with the four hobbits returning to the Shire untouched by the war and feeling out of place. Also, regarding Gimli becoming comic relief, the best way I can put it is that they made Gimli feel much younger in the movies than in the books, while doing the opposite with Legolas, making him feel older in the movies than he does in the books
My sister was the one who told me that was Ori. She had read the book and made a clay piece to enter into the state fair, as soon as the first film came out. So the span of 6 months we had our first full Tolkien fangirl in the family. Now, my 8yo read the Hobbit in 10 days, loves the movies because she's 8 and they are fun, and I am working on convincing her that reading LOTR will be just as good.
Don't know if she mentioned this as well, but in case she didn't, Oin also died in Moria as well, having been 'taken by the Watcher in the Water'. A pretty gruesome but also honestly a quite metal way to die, I must say.
I never thought about it before but Tolkien's bff CS Lewis also had Aslan sing Narnia into existence. Makes me wonder if there was maybe a late night discussion in a pub or over port about the power of music.
(Note: Christianity) . . . Highly likely, given their Christian/Catholic backgrounds and a common theological theme about a creator god singing existence into being. Sometimes this is described as Wisdom and with feminine pronouns, but understood to be an aspect of their god, just as his "son" is the incarnation of himself, not a separate being.
It wouldn't surprise me if they had shared about the power of music. I suspect they were both inspired by their backgrounds in both languages and Christianity. The idea that words have power is common in the Bible and probably would have been very meaningful to these scholars of languages. Throw in the emotional power of music, and singing the world into existence feels pretty powerful. A couple of obvious verses come to mind about the creative power of words. Genesis chapter 1 verse 3: "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." and John chapter 1 verse 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (Quotes from the King James Version) They may also have been inspired by other stories about the creation of the world. I know that other religions teach that the world was created by words or sounds, but I don't remember any specifics.
I agree with all of these, but, having listened to the audiobook recently, there are also original moments from the film that I missed in the book, like when Gandalf showed the hobbit children a sneak peak of his fireworks when he first got to the Shire, or when Sam stops in a field and says that "if I takes one more step I'll be farther away from home than I've ever been." They're little moments, but they have stayed with me since I was a kid.
Frodo, being psychic apparently, as he dreamed of Gandalf while Gandalf was being held prisoner. Elladan and Elohir as Elrond’s twin sons and the fact they basically laid the ground work for the fellowship and contacted allies to basically give them a heads up that they were coming. They cut out a lot of the “attempted” redemption of Sméagol/Gollum by the elves and the fact that he only escaped because they dropped their guard and a bunch of orcs swarmed them. Blind folding the fellowship, (At Aragorn’s suggestion) because the Lothlorien elves didn’t want a dwarf to know where they lived.
Your re-enactment of with you and the broken sword, saying "pokety" over and over again, brought tears to my eyes with laughter. Thanks so much, Dominic! 🥰 Please make a video for The Two Towers! 🙏🏾
I like how Saruman is essentially the main antagonist of the first two films. I liked how they reassigned some obstacles the fellowship had to deal with from being his doing. Like the storm and avalanche on the mountain. It did end up biting them in the ass when they cut his entire conclusion from the third film. As his role has been increased to the point he felt like he was more of the main villain the Saron
Except Saruman's role was also diminished in the films. He's cut entirely from the denouement, whereas he has a HUGE ROLE at the end of the book. Overall, he has a much more prominent arc on the page than on the screen. Lastly, his motives in the book (that he wanted the Ring for himself and tried to double-cross Sauron) are a lot more interesting.
@@brooksboy78 while I agree with you about the lord of the rings overall. The topic of discussion primarily focused on Fellowship. I even mentioned how cutting his conclusion from return of the king was a mistake
Also please do the Two Towers, I desperately need someone to validate my sadness at the change in Faramir's character to not resist the ring initially....
And Theoden's decision to head for Helm's Deep with his civilian population knowing that the enemy has taken the Fords of Isen rather than taking his household guard to (try to) reinforce the (not yet taken) Fords while Eowyn takes his civilian population to the (much closer) Dunharrow like book-Theoden - with movie-Theoden relocating everyone to Dunharrow anyway for the start of RotK.
I agree! Faramir is such a good character in the book. The behind the scenes justify ruining his character to give the Ring more meaning, because apparently too many people were refusing the power of the Ring.
@@maybelore I find the argument unconvincing - all the people refusing the Ring are acting like Frodo is offering to hand them a piece of unshielded nuclear waste, which seems to me to say more about how terrifying the Ring is than any amount of trying to grab one of the most powerful objects in Middle Earth. It's not like the people refusing the Ring (except Bombadil) are just saying "no thanks" either - they express their temptation to claim it - even Sam is tempted to become a super-gardener - they just have the strength of will and character to not try claiming the Ring for themselves.
I always loved Aragorn yelling "Elendil! Elendil!!!" every time he drew Anduril in the books, and was sad that wasn't in the movies bc Anduril wasn't in it for most of the trilogy. I also really missed Boromir's Lament in the films, I actually memorized the version of it from Rob Ingles' Audiobook version
The Song of Durin is also one of my favorites (Clamavu de Prefundis has a great arrangement). Telling history through song bears so much weight, not only are the stories of Middle Earth remembered, but they are immortalized through music
Glad you mention Gandalf leaving for 17 years. I love dropping that bit of trivia combined with Frodo being 50 when he starts his journey on people who haven't read the books!
The fact that Frodo got nightvision from being stabbed with the Morgul Blade sorta makes sense when the idea is that the blade literally erodes your hold onto the mortal world as you slowly slip into the 'unseen' more and more, so something like like seeing in the dark makes good sense.
I'd include the fact that Aragorn intended to return to Gondor from the get-go in the book. Before losing Gandalf, he'd planned to head to Minas Tirith with Boromir while the rest of the Fellowship continued to Mordor.
I listened to the audio books of TLoR last year for the first time(hadn’t ever read it either) and there where two Gimli related things I did not expect: first that he became lady Galadriel biggest fan and kept telling people she was the best, second was that he and Legolas became friends in one line of exposition during a time skip.
Ents! A change I always laughed at was the motivation of the ents. In the book they vote to go to war. In the movie they vote not to. They only go to war when Merry and Pippin trick Treebeard into walking past Orthanc so that he sees the devastation he somehow didn't know was happening. What's really funny is he decides at that exact moment to march on Isengard and for some inexplicable reason all of the other ents are right there.
It's so freaking weird too because it doesn't make any sense!!! Treebeard himself is going off about how Saruman has lost his way and doesn't respect nature anymore, and how trees always talk, and somehow, SOMEHOW he doesn't know what's happening at the edge of the forest :D As epic and tear-jerking that scene is for me to this day, it is kind of funny if I think about it long enough.
You managed to skip Tom Bombadil, all of Buckland, Old Forest, and Barrow-downs! The whole Hobbiton-Bree was supercondensed. And the Weathertop was rather different, both in what happened, and how it looked (I guess they just found the funky hill in NZ and *had to* use it). I would have liked to see the dwarves to escort Bilbo - the thought of old lonely hobbit hoofing to Rivendell all on his own was quite absurd.
Well to be fair he did make a whole video about major characters that didn't make it into the films already, so probably just didn't want to cover old ground. Plus, he did mention the Hobbits' Old Forest adventures in passing, during the point about their whole journey to Bree being different.
I once read that in the film universe farmer Maggot most likely got investigated for the murder of Merry and Pippin by the Shire authorities. Like since they banished without a trace after going out to steal Maggot's vegetables, everyone assumed he killed them and fed the bodies to his dogs to get rid of the evidence. He didn't go to jail because there was no proof, but everyone accepted that was what happened
I love that a chance encounter leads to Merry and Pippin joining the fellowship and helping to save Middle Earth. It feels so on-brand. Hobbits know very little about the world outside the Shire and don't want to leave it. Even so, once they're in unfamiliar situations their courage and resourcefulness allow them to endure and accomplish amazing things. An individual, no matter how small and seemingly insignificant, can make a positive difference in the world.
My favorite little change is Caradhras the fact that the mountain itself is in some way alive and full of spite and just doesn't want anyone to pass is a wonderful bit of worldbuilding, fitting into the whole theme "this world is old and powerful and we and sauron are only living in it" however it would be completely pointless in the movie instead Saruman, the primary antagonist of the first two movies (or one of) gets to do something, and again bests gandalf at Magical Thingies showing us that they can't just go and kick his ass
If I remember correctly, (to tag onto your singing point) the fellowship itself liked to get everyone together in a song around the campfire or while they were walking. It was a good way to keep their spirits up.
05:43 the fact that Bilbo left a bookshelf to a relative who was known for borrowing books and never returning them will never stop being funny to me.
And Lobelia finally got those spoons.
@@MySerpentine oh, she'd had those spoons, but she finally got a case for them 😂
@@emilyrln It was somewhere in between.
"For LOBELIA SACKVILLE-BAGGINS, as a PRESENT; on a case of silver spoons. Bilbo believed that she had acquired a good many of his spoons, while he was away on his former journey. Lobelia knew that quite well. When she arrived later in the day, she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons."
@@MySerpentine I always wondered how she hid stuff she had stolen in her umbrella.
He did hide treasures to the relatives that he liked, like gold coins and jewels in pots and such. I thought it was cute
In defense of Sam's gift. Yes, it's dirt. Yes, it's exactly zero use during the entire quest. But it's crucial in the healing of the Shire, giving Sam something that Frodo never gets: a home to go home to when the adventure is done. And Sam knows this, or at least understands its value enough that he never leaves it behind, even when he's carrying Frodo on his freakin' back up a 45-degree slope. He holds onto that box to the bitter end, and because he does, the end can be sweet.
The razing of the Shire was completely left out too, so the dirt had no place to shine anyway.
@@duxbellorumdraconis Almost completely - it was shown in Galadriel's Mirror.
@@rmsgrey didn't seem like much had happened by the time they got back though
@@prcervi Yeah, it got handwaved away by picking up on Galadriel's caution that the Mirror shows possible futures (along with past and present) and sometimes self-fulfilling prophecy kicks in.
Wasn't there also a seed-nut in there for a Mallorn tree?
I do feel like there is some more nuance to the Sam getting gifted dirt. Firstly, it wasn't just dirt, you find out later that the box contains a Mallorn seed, which is a rare seed. Additionally, it's dirt from her garden, so it's essentially one gardner gifting another gardner a cutting and some specialty potting mix to go with it. It kind of symbolizes a hope for the future while acknowledging what will never be again. Secondly, she didnt give everyone else weapons. Merry and Pippen already had weapons they got from the Barrow Downs, so what she gave them were nice belts. The only member of the Fellowship to get a weapon was Legolas's bow upgrade. Love the video, but just thought I'd mention this bit of nuance.
I think we have to forgive Dominic on this one, his sword fetish prevented him from seeing the true value of earthy goodness
Plus, doesn't the elven dirt allow him to regrow the Shire after Saruman and his cronies completely destroy it? It's been a long time since I read The Return of the King so I could have imagined this lol.
@@peskycritter79 it definitely does something! The Shire has some extremely good harvests the years after Sam goes around using the dirt to help heal the land after Saruman's mischief.
It also represents a future after the quest. That there will come a time of peace and growing :)
Book Gimli got three strands of hair.
You could argue that Frodo got a weapon - the captured light of Laurelin and Telperion - which later at least disoriented, and possibly burned, Shelob.
My favorite little detail from the books is when Frodo arrives at the Prancing Pony under the name "Frodo Underhill": There turns out to be a family of hobbits staying at the inn who coincidentally also have the last name of Underhill. They quickly decide that Frodo must be a long lost distant cousin and happily accept him as one of their own.
Average hobbit interaction
Gimli thinking so positively actually hit me hard as a kid cause all I could think is that he loved his family so much he didn't want to realise the truth. Also, finding out the actor never learnt the fight choreography and just told the stunt fighters who he was gonna hit in what order is hilarious to me
Yeah watching the movie it felt to me more like he was actively in denial rather than stupid.
which made his moment at Balin's grave so much harder to watch because you just KNOW he knew this was coming but didn't let himself believe it
As a person I find the fight thing hilarious - as someone who works as a fight choreographer it makes my teeth hurt lmao
@TotosTales it kinda suits his character tho. He is steadfast and unmovable
@@o0BlackSand0o haha it’s not about that - it’s about how freaking dangerous that is and the fact that if someone got injured the choreographers insurance would be on the line
I personally think the fact that Sam wasn't even hiding during the original Council is hilarious. He just went in after Frodo, stood by the wall, and stayed quiet for the majority of the meeting until he just felt he had to speak up. Honestly that is so on brand.
Yea, I loved that he just kinda wandered in after them and no one noticed 😂
@@backonlazer791 the gift of hobbits, they have Beneath notice passively.
@@inquisitorwalmarius6650 plus he’s Frodo’s personal servant and everyone there bar Gandalf and Frodo is upper class so would subconsciously register such a person as part of the furniture and thus overlook them without thinking.
@@lordofuzkulak8308 i doubt they would be so bad as to view them as furniture, not al upper class people are arseholes. a lot of servants have led good lives under protection of their masters. but there are difference between the races so what do i know.
but hobbits does feel like they encompass the old country side brittain, both good and bad.
@@inquisitorwalmarius6650 well he’s not Jeeves, so I doubt they’d pay him much mind. Though if he was Jeeves they’d all have turned to him and expected him to come up with a plan. 😆
Your re-enactment of Aragorn getting pissy about leaving Anduril with the Rohirrim guard was dead-on. It was so awkward and out-of-place, it always makes me laugh.
Is there anyone who doesn't think movie!Aragorn was vastly superior and more likeable? (Because he is)
The re-enactments of Dom are fantastic, though I will now see his sassy Aragorn in the inn as his best yet
@@vanyadolly Book!Aragon was insufferable. Poncing around with a broken sword and whining about how he was destined to be king. What a wanker.
@@GrainneMhaol He's very humble in the books. Not sure what you're talking about.
I really enjoyed the reenactment of Aragorns dis at the Inn keeper and the Hobbits reaction
I could stand another acknowledgement of Fredegar Bolger, the one who stayed behind but was just as much of a friend and part of the initial plan as Merry or Pippin.
I remember getting a board game where everyone plays as one of the hobbit and reenact the journey to Mordor... and being confused that you could go up to 5 players, with the fifth hobbit being unceremoniously just called "Fat Bolger". It kind of blew my mind when I realized later that yes, he was canon. Worst part is, I already had read the books when I got the board game, yet had totally forgotten about the guy. It took me a reread to notice.
@@Talyrion Dude! ...Same! I have that board game right here next to me. Poor Fatty Bolger. Always being forgotten. Even by me once.
I agree. Fatty was a very important part of the conspiracy, and it would have been nice if the film had acknowledged the conspiracy and Fatty.
Hehe. I saw the movies first, so when I read that there was a 5th hobbit I was confused😅
He's not even the only Fatty in the book
Sam's dirt being arguably the best gift is important thematically. It gives him the power to heal the Shire, at least a little bit-what else could be more valuable? Also, remember the association between kingship and healing: it is no accident that after healing the hurts of Saruman's war upon the land Sam becomes Mayor of Michel Delving and serves for nearly fifty consecutive years!
Also, Merry and Pippin got belts in the books.
Sam's gift was always my favorite. First for the reasons you state , but also bc it implies Galadriel could see a peaceful future where the Shire could/would be healed.
Galadriel gave Sam earth from her garden. I suspect Tolkien would not have liked this earth being called 'dirt' anymore than I do.
Galadriel gave it to him for exactly that purpose. She knew about what was going to happen to the Shire.
My high school horticulture teacher would say in class “soil is what you grow plants in. Dirt is what you sweep off the floor.”
And when you remember that Galadriel knew Sam was a gardener you realize just how thoughtful the gift was.
Not to mention that he also got a mallorn nut, which would grow into the only mallorn tree outside of Lórien in Middle Earth.
Didn't he also had a seed from the mallorn trees? I remember him planting one.
I think my favorite detail left out with Merry and Pippen just, stealing vegetables and running off with them in the movies is that in the books they're both pretty important people as well! Like, they're not royalty but as close as hobbits get. So, it's like a band of runaway princes and Frodo's gardener.
Pippin becomes pretty much the king of the shire later in life.
"A band of runaway princes and Frodo's gardener" made me laugh. And it's even better when you add on Sam becoming an important figure in the Shire afterwards to the point where Gardener becomes a last name there because of him.
And Tolkien's text made that clear throughout the books and Jackson carried this into the movies - Sam ALWAYS addresses the others as "Mister..." whereas they ONLY refer to him as "Sam"...
@@michaelodonnell824 I'm really glad they kept that detail
Two words: Farmer Maggot. People might say "Who?" if they didn't read the book and that's my point. Before Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin booked it out of the Shire, they were met and helped by a hobbit by the name of Farmer Maggot. Not only was this dude a seriously nice guy, he was protective of his mushroom farm, had a pair of dogs and when the Nazgûl came to the Shire to ask about Frodo, Farmer Maggot told him, in not so rude terms, to f**k off, threatening to set his dogs on him and refusing the bribe. Yes, hobbits can be douches and yes, they can be all classically brave Bilbo and Frodo style, but it was this act of bravery that had my jaw on the floor upon the second read through.
You are sooooo right on that one.
I remember finding it so funny that Frodo was actually the one always stealing mushrooms from Maggot when he was younger and still being concerned about meeting him years later; plus, Sam still being salty with the farmer because Frodo got his ass beat by him (_years_ ago) the last time he got caught.
Let's be honest, 'be off with you' was how Maggot told the story to respectable gentlehobbits, but you know he told that black rider where to shove his gold.
He's so badass, Dom made video about how badass he is.
@@EternalKHFan
He was a friend of Bombadil, and absorbed some of B's weird magic
My favorite difference is a casualty of leaving out Tom Bombadil (much as I agree with them leaving him out for pacing and tone). If I remember correctly, when Tom rescues the hobbits in the barrow downs, he finds them four special daggers made specifically to harm evil spirits. Wights, wraiths... you know, the exact sort of monsters they're running from. Three of the hobbits lose theirs on the journey, but Merry holds onto his allllll the way into Return of The King. As kickass as it is for Eowyn to go "I am no man!" the Witch King's "No man can kill me" crap meant MORTALS can't kill him because he has this forcefield that makes him effectively invincible. Well wouldn't you know it, this random hobbit he was chasing about a year ago stabs him in the ankle with one of the only items in middle earth that could lower his forcefield, creating an opening for Eowyn to land the killing blow. I can only imagine how gobsmacked he was, thinking "WHAT THE FU- HOW DID ONE OF THOSE KNIVES MAKE IT ALL THE WAY OUT HERE??!!"
I could be misremembering it but I thought that the dagger Mary had had actually been crafted with the sole purpose of defeating someone like the witch-king if not the witch King himself. So it was a matter of prophecy in destiny that this item had sat alone for hundreds of years only to end up in the hands of the least likely being to make sure that prophecy came true and it helped defeat this evil
@Shomba Sowab A harsh, but not uncommon view 🤣 I don't mind it, but I remember listening to the BBC Radio4 adaptation and not realising that they had cut out Bombadil, until the discussion at Elrond's Council. I didn't miss it, it's not exactly essential to the tale and reading it again, it does seem out of place.
I'm on the fence about Bombadil. He was such a silly character that it detracts from the seriousness of the tone
Also Tom Bombadil's interactions with the One Ring hurts the threat of the ring. In the movies it is quite shocking when Aragorn rejects the ring, and even more shocking when Sam gives it back, but those are nothing when compares to how Tom Bombadil used it as a silly trinket. It is better in the movies that the ring is So Goddamn powerful that not even Galadriel can resist it fully instead of a random farmer being able to dismiss it as such. (Yeah I know the implication is that he is Ilu Vatar but that is subtext.)
@Shomba Sowab Bombadil as executed is weird (it reminds me of the Silver Chair), but the loss of the Barrow-Downs is very significant. In retrospect, perhaps the same plot function could have been filled by a Ranger without the confusing mysticism.
My favorite change was Arwen encountering the party on the way to Rivendell. It allowed her to be introduced in a very memorable way and establish a playful banter with Aragorn, thus making up for how little room there is to give her screen time elsewhere.
Glorfindel is a cool dude in his own right but if Ori was too niche a name to drop, Glorfindel is a whole other can of worms. Glorfindel in those scenes would just be a cool Elf guy, where Arwen taking his place allowed her to be established as a major character. Without that change, her very limited screen time could've made her feel tacked on as Aragorn's love interest.
That change to me highlights how well Jackson was able to condense so much into the runtime he had with these movies. It was truly a staggering achievement.
And not gonna lie, I've always loved Liv Tyler's playfully smug "What's this? A Ranger, caught off his guard?" when we first meet her.
Agreed. It definitely works better to have one character who plays an important role than to have two characters who do almost nothing.
Not to mention "You want him? Come and claim him!" right before waterbending the Nazgul down the river. Badass.
hated that sooooo much, contrived romance plots make me furious and I liked glorfindel
The romance has to be a part of the adaptation, at leats that way Arwen got a chance of being an actual character for a couple scenes.
I appreciated her swap-in but where her bad-assery undercut Frodo’s show of resilience… They lost me. And then watched it six times in theatres and bought the very pretty extended editions. Sigh.
On a recent reread I was struck by the fact that Boromir is the winter travel expert, seeing as he's from a city perched on the side of a mountain, and he's extremely long suffering about Aragorn and Gandalf botching the mountain path over the misty mountains. It's just an interesting character note that he's really well versed in this but is overly aware that he's not in charge and is trying to avoid adding to their troubles by correcting those who are. A curious mix of pride and humility that doesn't have time to come across in an already packed movie.
In Douglas Adams and John Lloyd's "The Meaning of Liff", a dictionary of words that don't exist but should, this is described as a Kentish moment. I know this because my mum has used the word to describe her watching me do anything all my life
How did Aragorn and Gandalf botch the mountain journey? The literal mountain was against them.
Boromir was done dirty by the films - he was a better man than the films made him out
@@cheetarah9199straight up. He's a much more layered and nuanced character in the book.
@goosewithagibus Right?! He was always going back to Gondor, and he knew his father was a total shit, but he went to Rivendale in place of his brother - but he was always about Aragorn being the King. He was a good man in the books. The film alluded to it with the play with the hobbits, but made him seem worse overall
It always amuses me that of the Fellowship in the movie, nobody looked at Legolas Sassypants Greenleaf and thought 'he should be the comic relief'. It boggles the mind, Legolas is always derping about and giggling about something. He only truly sobers up when he hears gulls cry.
Dwarves have fortunately grown on people with time, and is not looked down upon as much, these days. Even though it was a tall order, with so many short-sighted people.
I think they decided on Gimli being the comic relief when they realized that Orlando Bloom was prettier than John Rhys-Davies.
@@hyrinshratu Or that John Rhys-Davies was funnier than Orlando Bloom, which could also be the case!
@@torbenkristiansen2742 I see what you did there...
@@calicojacque Its just because Orlando Bloom has all the range of a wet fish. He can play 2 characters, Legolas and Will Turner. Thats it.
My 10 favorite things that were changed or left out (although I'm sure Dominic knows these events already) in no particular order:
1. Merry actually being the one to give Gandalf the right idea on how to open the door to the Mines of Moria, not Frodo.
2. Gollum having been captured by Aragorn and Gandalf, who had him imprisoned by the Mirkwood elves, leading to...
3. Legolas showing up in Rivendell to tell them that Gollum escaped, and Gloin (who was also at the council with Gimli) being annoyed that the elves treated Gollum more kindly than the dwarves when they were imprisoned there during the events of The Hobbit.
4. Bilbo's friendship with Aragorn.
5. Legolas being a cheeky shit on Caradhras, watching Boromir and Aragorn struggle through the snow (he's kind of a cheeky shit more in the book overall).
6. The Fellowship being blindfolded when they were led into Lothlorien (at first the elves were only going to blindfold Gimli; Gimli would only agree if Legolas was blindfolded too, and Aragorn settled the dispute by saying they'd all go blindfolded).
7. Sam was with Frodo when he looked into Galadriel's mirror. It was actually Sam who glimpsed the scouring of the Shire, while Frodo saw other visions when he looked.
8. Celeborn played a bit of a larger role when the fellowship rested in Lothlorien. Some of Galadriel's lines in the movie were actually Celeborn's in the book (although it was quite common in the movie to redistribute dialogue).
9. Dominic talked about how Merry and Pippin purposely went with Frodo, but didn't mention that Frodo was pretending to move to a different part of The Shire as a subterfuge. Merry and Pippin gave Frodo a bit of shit for thinking he was actually being discrete about his true intentions when he kept muttering about possibly never seeing The Shire again.
10. Frodo faced the Black Riders in the river before Rivendell by himself (he was a lot more coherent than in the movie). I appreciate the inclusion of Arwen, but this was an excellent moment that shows how brave Frodo could be.
Bombadil?
Agree agree agree!! So true!!
@@ka-1atmyth353 I don't actually care about him much
About number 8, while true, I find it funny that one of the few lines they did give to Celeborn "Tell me where is Gandalf, for I much desire to speak with him." was said by Galadriel in the books 😂
Point 3 leads to one of the funnier bits, where Gandalf basically tells Gloin that if they're going to rehash every issue between elves and dwarves, they might as well not bother having the Council. And Gloin apologizes and bows.
My favorite difference is the battle at Amon Hen and getting to actually see Boromir's last stand. In the book, the battle is entirely off-screen with Aragorn pretty much just stumbling on the aftermath after following the sound of the horn.
Jackson did an absolutely fantastic job with Boromir and Aragorn in Fellowship. One of the best examples ever of successful changes in an adaptation.
First time I read the books, when going from Fellowship to Two Towers, I had to go back and check the end of Fellowship just to make sure I hadn’t somehow skipped a chapter.
Tolkien is really fond of off-screen battles XD
Boromir period. Tolkien just kinda doesn't like the guy. Jackson made him a sympathetic, complex character.
Tolkien really doesn't do action well. I think people who haven't read the book think it is like dungeons and dragons but it's not.
The one that always gets me is Caradhras. Saruman didn't cause avalanches, as in the movie. It was the mountain itself not liking the Fellowship for its own, unknowable reasons, causing them.
"Screw these guys in particular" -Caradhras, 3019
It's been years since I read it, but I swear I recall one of the Fellowship saying something like "we're going to have to turn back because of these storms. Pretty coincidental they're forcing us to take the more dangerous path, almost like Saruman made them happen. But that'd be crazy, his reach couldn't get that long so quickly." Gandalf replies with something like "Ha ha. Yeah. That'd be crazy. Ok pick up the little guys we're outtie." It sounded to me like him saying "Actually I do think our fallen-angel enemy might have got strong enough to start causing storms to annoy us, let's find a less obvious way through." Again, I read it years ago, and my reading comprehension wasn't as good back then.
@@georgepayne9381 I believe Gimli thought it was the mountain and Gandalf thought that there was a chance it was Sauron. Though neither idea was confirmed afair.
For clarification, it ws generally believed there was a malevolent spirit that dwelt near the top of the mountain, if memory serves, named Caradhras, and it was he that sent the extra heavy snow etc to the Fellowship. I remember one of the video games, one of the few that actually tried to stick to the lore, had a side quest where you could take the smegger on, though this was not a good move as he was basically an inverse Balrog, being made of ice instead of fire, and would wipe most of the party out pretty damn quick. IF memory serves, there is even a mention of Gimli shaking his fist at Caradhras dancing in the snow on top of the mountain after the "attack".
Ultimately, no, there's no indisputable answer about why it was storming on Caradhras. It's entirely reasonable that it was just bad weather and not enemy action and *that is entirely sufficient* for the narrative. But every theory on a magical reason for the storms is also just as plausible and that's kinda wild.
Since Galadriel saw what might happen in the Shire, that Saruman would burn it down, Orks running rampage, the dirt that makes plants grow fast and lush makes so much more sense though. She gave him the opportunity to heal his homeland once they succeeded. She seemed to have known that there is nothing she could give him to help along the journey, but she gave him the way to build a home for himself and his kin once he returned and I think that is beautiful.
Well nothing except maybe rope
And since it wasn’t even clear to anyone whether they’d be able to return home, it might’ve given Sam a bit of hope. “Well, if the Lady says I’ll go home and have amazing gardens, then there has to be a way to get home.” Which is pretty nice :’)
There were so many bits.
-Merry spotting a troll and telling Strider, who casually saunters up and belts it with a stick, pointing out how silly Merry was to be scared of a troll in the daylight.
-Sam singing about Gil Galad. That's a beautiful part of the book and gives Sam a lot of depth.
-Meeting Gildor on the way out of the Shire where they point out the uselessness of asking Elves for advice.
-I would have liked the Eagles to speak rather than just being Gandalf's private taxi service.
And Gildor was the reason both Tom Bombadil and Strider knew that Frodo needed help.
Sam singing the verse about Gil-galad was done wonderfully in the BBC radio adaptation; an effort far superior to jp's.
- It was mentioned in passing, but it's interesting that Frodo moved house as a way to slip out of the Shire unnoticed: Lobelia Sackville-Baggins owns Bag End only a way into the book.
- Frodo was rescued by Glorfindel, rather than Arwen, Glorfindel, who is so awesome that his very aura scared away the Black Riders and who was the only elf to return from the Halls of Mandos after death. He also slew a Balrog.
- The journey through Moria was decided on not because Saruman magicked up a blizzard, but because the mountain they were climbing itself was evil and was being a dick.
- Saruman is no longer Saruman the white, but rather Saruman of many colours - he switched to a robe that looked white at first, but shimmered with all the colours in the spectrum. Gandalf is tricked and trapped by him because Saruman told Radagast to fetch him. Radagast also unwittingly helped him escape by sending the eagle Gwahir to bring the news of Sauron's troop movements.
- The hobbits (except Frodo, who had Sting) get magic swords in the barrow of a Barrow-wight. The Barrows are the burial mounds of the fallen kingdom of Arnor, from which the rangers descend. These mounds were infested with wights by the Witch-King of Angmar to the North, you know, the main Black Rider. The magic swords were made especially to slay wights, which is one of the reasons Pippin could hurt the Witch King at the Battle of Pelenor Fields - both he and Eowyn were not "men".
- The Uruk-Hai were not created from mud cocoons by Saruman, rather the implication is they were the offspring of orcs and humans.
- Gollum was captured by Aragorn and brought to Mirkwood, where he was held by the elves until some orcs causing trouble allow him to escape. Legolas came to Rivendell to tell him.
- Boromir came to Rivendell because he and Faramir had had dreams telling them to.
- The poem "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king." was written by Bilbo at Rivendell and recited in defense of Aragorn at the council. He and Aragorn liked to compose poetry together.
Good pull. I also freaking love that poem about Aragorn. My sister had it as her profile on her AIM back in the day.
Luthien came back from Mandos as well, although I guess she's only half-elf by blood.
Glorfindel bugged me for years. I genuinely thought that Tolkien had just recycled the name to use for a completely different character. I'm still not sure that isn't the case. Did Tolkien discuss it in letters?
The poem about Aragorn is funny because Frodo hears it read by someone and thinks it's some kind of ancient prophecy, uses it in Aragorn's defence when Boromir talks crap about him at the council, only for Bilbo to admit afterwards that he was the one who wrote it (though the prophecy does really exist, in even older manuscripts)
@@TheGerkuman Huh. I thought Bilbo was the one who recited it during the council.
The realization hit me when you described Merry and Pippin leaving their houses to go steal vegetables… like the dudes really went on a life changing trip with their cousin on a whim that’s hilarious
plus Merry and Pipin were members of two important families in the Shire. They didn´t need to steak veggies or anything like that.
For me, another stand out was the general personality of Merry. In the movies he was kinda a Pippin-light; someone who was still more humor-base but just enough of a relative straight-man for the true goofball to play off of him. However, and you did hint to this with how he helped protect Frodo's home and in other spots, the Merry in the book was much more protective and serious of a character. Reading the book, he felt like a Paladin-type personality who just never had the opportunity to go for knighthood. It was only his race, upbringing, and location that denied him a more fitting career. It's kinda why in the later books, his fighting for Rohan didn't feel like him going against his previous nature to become a hero; it felt more like he was finally realizing a true calling that had been denied to him his whole life.
I loved that in the books, Merry actually fought the orcs that came to abduct them, and mutilated several of them. In the end, they still got captured anyway, but it was such a nice display of his spirit. And there's also a part in Bree where he saw a nazgul (or what appears to be a nazgul) and actually followed it to see where it went, even though he was terrified.
I liked that Merry was kinda the leader of the Hobbits at the beginning of their journey
Merry was always my favourite hobbit growing up, so when the movie came out, I noticed his differences the most. I like movie Merry too, but I would have loved to see a bit more of his map & research loving side. I think he does make one small comment in the extended version when they're in Rivendell, but selfishly, I would have loved more.
And Pippin being goofy was due to him being the Hobbit equivalent of a 10-12 year old, whereas Merry was the equivalent of a 15-17 year old (the same as Sam) and therefore more serious, and protective of Pippin as a little brother (if memory serves, it's been literally 20 years.)
For the longest time I had troubles to tell Merry and Pippin apart in the beginning of their journey.
It's a very little thing, but absolutely terrified me when I read it: the scene where Pippin knocks the suit of armour down the well and then gets yelled at in the movie is a bit more low key in the book. He still gets yelled at in the book, but the reason Gandalf tells him "throw yourself in next time" is because he was tossing rocks down... Until all of a sudden, something at the bottom of the well picked a pebble up and started tapping back, like the world's creepiest Morse code.
Almost. it was *one* piece of rock (more specifically, a remainder of the old well lid that had long ago been broken), it just took a while to reach the bottom and make a sound. And the sound that came back (more precisely, *two* sounds, seemingly exchanging signals) was that of a hammer, as Gimli points out. But yes, it's quite creepy.
Tolkien doesn't get enough credit for how damn scary LOTR could be. Something that unsettles me every time I read it is when Frodo faintly hears Gollum's arrhythmic footsteps in Moria, and no one else does (because the Nazgul's blade enhances his senses, if I recall correctly). For some reason, little things like that, and the examples you mentioned, creep me out more than any straight up horror book. Stephen King hasn't scared me as much as the fantasy genre has.
@@jarltrippinStrider does. Aragorn specifically mentions to Frodo that He knew Gollum was following them. He probably told Gandalf as well while they were in Moria. In the book Frodo overhears Gandalf and Strider debating their course when they did not realize Frodo was awake. Its clear that Aragorn and Gandalf had lots of secret conversations about how dangerous their road was becoming but kept it secret so that the Fellowship would not become overly frightened.
@@jarltrippin People get into the habit of thinking of LOTR as "the original epic fantasy", and it is, but that means they frequently forget how much straight-up HORROR is woven through it. The Willow, the Barrow-downs, the Nine Riders, the creepiness in Moria, quite a bit of Frodo and Sam's journey post-split, the ghost army; SHELOB. Even, arguably, Denethor's death. There are a lot of crucial sequences that go beyond "dramatic tension" and incorporate horror elements.
I also personally find the horror in LOTR more effective than a lot of works in the horror genre. Maybe it's because it's interspersed with other types of narrative, so each time it comes up, it's always a smack in the face? I don't know. (Movie-wise, I'm sure that PJ's background in horror films led to him adapting those bits with particular relish. But it's definitely not a case of a horror direction punching up the horror elements; I look at it as more of a case of a horror director really recognizing those elements and treating them as they deserve.)
@@gryphonvert The happenings in the barrow downs is kind of creepy too.
The fact that, in the book, Sam, Merry, and Pippin already knew about the ring long before Frodo told them about it, and had formed a secret conspiracy group around it.
Book Isildur didn’t turn evil when he got the ring, (he realized he’d messed up by not destroying it and was taking the ring to Rivendell when the orcs attacked him), which is part of the reason book Aragorn wasn’t so hung up about being descended from him
Also Isildur never went to Mount Doom with Elrond, so he never got that single dramatic moment where he made an active choice to not destroy the ring. (Although including these kinds of scenes works a lot better for a movie, even if it makes minor characters more shallow.)
I do wonder if Isildur would have been able to go through with giving up the ring had he actually made it to Rivendell.
@@JackChristmas He's about five seconds from handing the ring to Elrond and goes "Nah" and then they never see him again.
Which also makes the movie hilarious in terms of elrond complaining about isildur considering that all he had to do was swinging his sword and cut that f****** head off and kick his body into the lava
Elrond: it is the fault of mine that the ring still exists, gandalf
Gandalf: yes. It's too bad that there was no one there that could have, I don't know, shoved isildur over the edge when he was walking past them and ended all of this. Or commanded their armies to shoot him full of a bunch of arrows. Or done literally anything to stop him from walking away with the greatest evil known.
Elrond:... Yes. Tragic that
@@defender2222 Killing Isildur would have been the worst thing to do. He was King of Gondor and Arnor at that point, probably the most powerful person in Middle Earth. It would be starting a massive war the elves would have no way to win. Plus killing him because of the ring would have almost certainly led to Elrond falling to the ring. It's literally the worst possible idea.
@@defender2222 Haha, I get where you're coming from with them being so close to destroying the ring in the movie, but if you had just narrowly won a long and costly war against the forces of darkness thanks to a fragile alliance between Elves and Men, would you be rushing to murder your ally's king-in-waiting (who also happens to be an actual close friend) and start a whole new war over a long term concern? In hindsight the argument for it being the right thing to do is obvious, but if he'd actually done it, Elrond likely would have been deposed on the basis of being a bloodthirsty lunatic, at best.
In full context, I'd argue that movie Elrond is actually less culpable for the survival of the ring than book Elrond, because at least he got a lot closer to convincing Isildur to destroy it, even if neither version was willing to take that decision away from him by force.
I'll add a few. 1) Frodo spent a long time planning how he would leave the Shire without anyone noticing, which involved buying a freaking house just to abandon it (it's worth noting here that he's also fantastically rich, being the heir to a guy who took a large chunk of a dragon's treasure hoard). 2) Bree is inhabited both by "big folk" and by hobbits. 3) Elrond tried to talk Merry and Pippin into going back to the Shire instead of joining the Fellowship, arguing that they could help guard it from Sauron's minions. And it turned out that he kind of had a point. 4) Boromir never intended to follow Frodo to Mordor, he was basically just tagging along on his way back home to Minas Tirith. And Aragorn was planning to go with him. 5) Gandalf WANTED to go through Moria, it was Aragorn that objected to it. 6) Saruman had nothing to do with the the snow storm that blocked the pass of Caradhras, sometimes bad weather just happens. 7) Like the whole first half of the book is spent building up this thematic thing about Gondor's fallen sister kingdom and how Aragorn and the other Rangers are the remnants of that fallen kingdom and how meaningful it is that Sauron's fall is started by the Rangers returning to Gondor, and yeah that's all very interesting but the movie can't be six hours long so there's no way any of it was usable beyond one line where Aragorn says "this place used to be a watchtower, neat huh?"
I suppose the movie hints at there being hobbits in Bree because none of the men there seem surprised or even that interested in them being hobbits, unlike how men in the south act.
@@TacticusPrime and also the old guy at the gate has two windows to open, one at man-height and the other at hobbit-height
I love that in the book that when Frodo is there as 'Mr Underhill' he meets some hobbits of the family Underhill that live in Bree, and they're very quick to accept his story. (Assuming that he's some sort of distant cousin).
The snow storm wasn'r just bad weather. It was implied that the mountain itself is just kind of a dick and purpousefully screwed with them.
much of that treasure was what was found in the troll den. not from the dragon hoard.
The Anduril thing is because on big change, Elrond wasn't as much of a dick in the books. Elrond was a lot more supportive both of Aragorn himself, Aragorn's marriage with Arwen and of mankind in general. He was highly dissapointed in Isildur but recoganized his friend had fallen due to the power of the ring and knew that any elf trying to weild the ring likely would have fallen to the power just as easily and would have been way more dangerous. The only reason Aragorn and Arwen aren't married at the start of the story is because Elrond refuses to allow Aragorn marry Arwen until Aragorn becomes official royalty aka take back Gondor. This isn't because he wants Aragorn to die but because he confidently believes in his future son in law who is engaged to Arwen and sees this as a way to push Aragorn to become king of Gondor. Not that Aragorn didn't need motivation as he was swinging around the shards of narsil before they were even reforged and was such a cool guy in the books that he almost convinced the Uruk-Hai NOT to attack Helms Deep. So yeah Elron being a big dick in the movies and Aragorn being a reluctant king? Major changes from the books.
And let's not forget that elrond was basically aragorn's adopted father. He raised him after the deaths of his father and then later his mother. So he was just trying to get a man that he saw as one of his sons to reach the full heights that he could. Which also makes the removal of elrond's sons a bit disappointing because they had a very brotherly relationship with Aragon
I found Aragorn's arc pretty funny in the book, btw, seen from his POV, the quest is basically "You'll get The Princess once you get a kingdom".
@@defender2222 Also, where in the movies Elrond seems judgmental of Arwen choosing mortality for love, book Elrond would never do that, because he was, in fact, Elrond, motha-lovin, Halfelven, and in fact, both his twin brother and great-grandmother, yanno the most beloved elf of yore Luthien, had made the same choice.
Between this and Thrandule Jackson really likes turning Elven Father Figures into complete assholes doesn’t he.
Elronds own parents were elven and human, so it is a bit weird that he doesn’t seem to like Arwen/Aragorn in the movie.
The whole "Hobbits kinda suck" thing resonates so well with me ^^
I'm German not British, but the town I used to live in still had some of this left over.
There was a rivalry between the north and south half of the town, to the point that even though they were 5 minutes walk apart, they counted as two different towns.
This must have been so much worse back in Tolkien's day, and even worse in the middle ages.
I think it comes from the fact that it was much harder and a lot less necessary to travel even to the next big town, so "those other folk" would include people very close to you, not just people in other states or nations.
They also remind me of Austrians (and I am one too). West Austrians are not to fond of people from Vienna (east Austria in general) and reversed and everyone who moves to a village in Tyrol is treated as a foreigner his/ her whole live who dosn't really belong there and who has to be mistrusted and is frowned abone sometimes that treatment lasts up to the next generation .
I know I'm late commenting, but it's not so much the medieval mentality being represented with the hobbits, but rather the victorian Little Englander mentality, which is still very prevalent in rural England.
@@Tom-mk7nd Yeah, this was Tolkien being classist. Hobbits have gentlemen and peasants just like England did/does. The Hobbits are English, and he def gives the peasant Hobbits bad characteristics. But that’s not meant to describe all Hobbits, just the peasants. Hobbits are given overall positive traits because they represent the English overall. The stark cultural difference between gentry and commoners is subtle in the book because it would have been totally understood and second nature to any of the assumed audience, nothing that needed explanation or calling out. Anyone rich enough to have a full-time gardener or manservant is not a peasant.
One book to film difference that is quite often overlooked is that Gandalf actually touches the ring before throwing it into fire. He is kinda reluctant to take it, and holds it briefly. He is powerful enough to resist it for a few moments, but I get it why they changed it for the movie; it makes the temptation seem that much stronger.
"the thing i'm apparently still doing" but Dom, i have so much fun with these. The perspective you have started putting into them, making it clear that *sometimes* a change is required because of the change in media.
Anyways, do what makes you happy, just know that this series is one of my favorite things on youtube
Same, I love lost in adaptation!!!
Yess! Me too! Lost in Adaptation is my favorite UA-cam channel ever! Don’t you ever stop doing this Dom! You would kill me!
Mine too!! One of the only things i watch in youtube this days
Never clicked on a video so fast :)
I’m really hoping that whole rule of “The LOTR Lost in Adaptions will be the last LIAs ever made” no longer applies
First thing that crossed my mind.
Given the way this is just a list of ten adaptation changes and not a standard Lost In Adaptation, I think it's safe to assume that he's not done with this series yet
I hope to Eru that he's still doing LiAs
Honestly my favorite difference between the two seems to be entirely centered around the fact that they're completely different mediums. The books give so much history and context to *everything* that would just utterly bog a film down were it to be included, so Peter Jackson did the smartest thing he could have: He changed it from being a very world-based story to a very character-based story.
Yeah, when you listen to the audio commentary, Jackson, Walsh and Boyens main reason for changing things can always be boiled down to "we wanted to give an arc to that character".
One that stuck with me is that they puposefully cut the two characters that resist the ring, Bombadil of course, but also Faramir. In the book, Faramir don't give a shit about the ring, he promised to let Frodo go, so he let him go even after seeing the ring. In the movie, he kidnap them for a while and have to make a real effort to let the ring go ^^
He could have cut some of those romance scenes and added more book stuff...the prancing pony is one of my favorite parts, and it's criminally cut down in the movie 😭
@@krankarvolund7771 Not every character needs an "arc", especially when you have no time at all to develop it. Movie!Faramir doesn't work at all because there's no time spent developing/explaining his characterization, nor *showing* how and why he changes his mind at the end. He acts one way the entire time and then acts another way at the end of the story. That is not good writing.
The books are incredibly Hobbit-centric in a way the movies just aren't. The books are all about how these (very modern) characters are ennobled by the (very medieval) world and characters that surround them. Aragorn isn't meant to feel relatable, he's meant to be mythic. The Hobbits are meant to be the modern characters readers relate with as they grow and change due to their interactions with a high and mythic world.
@@brooksboy78 I didn't say that it always worked or was well written, I said that it was the philosophy behind their choices ^^
Personally, I prefer book Faramir to movie Faramir, even if he deminish the impact of the Ring by refusing it, he's more impactful and developped like that. But it was not what the three writers of the movie wanted ^^
_raises hand_ Aragorn was born in 2931, and the Council of Elrond was in 3018. Yes, he was 87 during the Ring Quest. The Dúnedain were ridiculously long-lived, which raises questions about just how human he was.
He was human in that he had a mannish fëa (soul). So did Arwen, after choosing to be mortal.
Only half elves could choose, or the descendants of half elves who chose to be elves. See Elrond and his kids.
If the half elf chose to be mortal, they and all their descendants would be as well. See Elros and that entire line down to Aragorn.
The appendices covered that. If I remember right, Aragorn was about 1/4 ELF.
extended edition pointing this out goes burrr
Well, he's part of the line of Numenor, and that royal line was founded by Elrond's twin brother, Elros. (Both of them being Half-Elven, Elrond chose his immortal side, while his brother Elros chose to give up his immortality and become human. So there's that dimension to Elrond's reluctance to see Arwen do the same thing for Aragorn -- Elrond has already seen one relative do that, and had to watch him die of old age, even though Elros lived for hundreds of years more than a normal human would.) Anyway... the implication is that the Numenorean line, being descended from the Half-elven Elros, was magically longer-lived than normal humans. IIRC, Aragorn would not live as long as Elros had, the line had lost a bit of its potency over the years, but he would live for a long time, and age slowly. Just one more benefit of being King of Gondor.
So, between the council of Elrond and Frodo inheriting the ring are some 20 years. And between the events of the Hobbit and Frodo receiving the Ring are some 50 years?
So Aragorn was a teenager around the time The Hobbit happened?
Holy sheet, I snorted soda up my nose & started crying/laughing with the Dom-imagines-Sam's-happy-rope-dance scene. Thanks Dom, needed that today. Please do the next two!
Personal favourite, the fact that in my first reading of fellowship… Arwens presence just completely slipped by me. Having her actually do something and interact with Aragorn is quite nice.
Same here. When I saw her during my first viewing, I was scratching my head, wondering if the character was movie-only.
True! I remember getting to the end of ROTK and thinking: "wait! Where's Arwen?"
Seconded! It was honestly a masterful adaptation choice to have her replace glorfindel (who iirc is never majorly relevant in the books again) and give her a moment of girlbossery before she goes back to languishing under a dream sequence bloom filter for most of the trilogy.
I liked her inclusion too, especially given that she replaces a character who never appears again.
I'll be honest, Arwen is kinda unimportant and her fending off the Nazgul in the movie is kinda absurd.
In the book the reason the riders flipped out was because Glorfindel showed up; an elf who soloed a Balrog, oh and was resurrected back in the 1st/2nd Age. And he's an ELF, not an angel/maiar like Gandalf.
So resurrected badass elf warrior vs female elf of epic lineage. One of these things makes sense to be afraid of, the other not so much.
My favorite change in the film that I think really exemplifies why they’re such good adaptations is the line “I’ve thought up an ending for my book, “and he lived happily ever after tile the end of his days.”” In the book it’s one of many lines Bilbo is throwing out to try and distract Gandalf when he’s come to tell him to give the ring to Frodo. Jackson and the screenwriters recognized that line would work much nicer as the top to the scene end it on a nicer note and it works wonderfully in the film.
All the singing in the books is the influence of Kalevala, the Finnish epic, on Tolkien. In Kalevala, magic is done by singing and the wizard character, Väinämöinen, sings things into being. Gandalf was basically based on Väinämöinen, too.
Exactly. And one of the elvish languages is based on or inspired by Finnish.
When I'm talking about Tolkien's influences, I sometimes call Gandalf "VäinämÓðinn."
True, but that's not specific only to Finnish. The whole word "enchantment" is from french chanter - to sing.
I've heard that another paralell to Kalevala could be the creation of Sampo, a powerful...thing(?) That was of great value.
Though I think stories of the Nibelung ring is closer to the themes of ltr.
Important to note: Frodo is 33 (equivalent to our 18) at Bilbo's birthday and 50 when he leaves the Shire, but the book also notes that he doesn't age at all in between those times because he had the Ring. He would have looked extremely youthful, despite being 50.
And Strider is in his 90s, due to the good genes of the Atlanteans ehh sorry, Numenoreans.
the Tom Cruise of Hobbits
@@TheMonkeygoneape well, considering Elijah is in his 40s now and could still play the role ... he's got the Ring hidden somewhere in his house ...
Frodo is also telling Boromir off when he throws a rock into the pool in front of moria. He says something like "We all hate it here, Boromir, but there is obviously a monster in this water. Don't wake it up". Which is pretty much exactly what a parent would say to his impatient son.
"I got a jar of dirt, I got a jar of dirt, AND GUESS WHATS INSIDE IT!!!"
-Samwise Gamgee, probably.
19:19 Even funnier, when he mentions the ropes in the boats, Galadriel is sad he hadn't mentioned his passion earlier because she would have made sure he was taught to make it by their finest ropemakers had she known.
My head canon is that he does get tutoring from Lothlorien ropemakers post-war. I'm sure at least one came with her to Lindon when she sailed into the West.
I think the change to give aragorn the sword so late works quiet well. in the books, aragorn is already the soon to be king from the get go and acts as such, while in the movies he feels very reluctant to accept this part of himself. finally taking up the sword shows him growing past that and accepting who is meant to be.
And, as the movies went on, he took on more gear, slowly dropping his Ranger self, and taking on the Lord part of himself
Giving Aragorn a character arc was the best decision Jackson ever made. It adds so much not just to Aragorn and the story in general, but to other characters who interact with him. Aragorn and Boromir's relationship is my favourite part of Fellowship.
I like most of what they did to him, but they could've kept Elladan and Elrohir showing up in place of Elrond and just let them bring the sword, that would've at least made a bit more sense logistically. I guess they just didn't want to introduce more characters, but it still feels a bit on the odd side.
@@ozzyp97 They could have had all the Dunedain rangers if they had any sense. The whole "army of dead" was really out of place in my opinion and made the movies less realistic.
@@dinmavric5504 That's another thing, though my main problem is that they skipped the corsairs and brought the Army of the Dead to Pelennor. I feel it takes away from the achievements of everybody else, sort of like the elves showing up at Helm's Deep.
Man, I wish I could like this video twice. The skits with Aragorn giving Barliman a burn and Sam getting rope was HILLARIUS.
Here's a bit more about Barliman Butterbur, the Prancing Pony Publican from the book. Once Gandalf escapes from Saruman he goes to the Prancing Pony. Butterbur admits to not sending the letter and is prepared for Gandalf to roast him, but Gandalf is thankful that somehow Frodo ended up with Aragorn (despite Butterbur thinking that it was a bad idea because he thinks Strider is a bit sinister) and blesses the beer.
When Gandalf and the Hobbits return to the Prancing Pony after destroying the ring in Return of the King, Butterbur is glad to see they're all still alive and confirms that his beer has been supernaturally good ever since Gandalf blessed it.
I think the change of Aragorn was one of the biggest. Book Aragorn was fully aware and prepared to be king of Gondor. He accepted it and was pretty damm stingy at times when his authority got questioned from "lesser men". He IS a king in the making and simply waiting for "The right time".
Movie Aragorn was aware of his role, but didnt want to and had to do the classic "Hero´s journey" until accepting that he is worthy of that title. He is way less stingy about people not treating him with enough respect because he doesnt want to be seen as a king.
I got the opposite impression. You have to remember characters havent read the book. He had no rational path to being king. His family had fallen irrevocably. He became a ranger. Not a mercenary. Not a lowly officer in some kingdom. He became an independant servant of no man who used his skill to do good in the world. His birth and upbringing just gave him self confidence. He fought off the wringwraiths. He served hobbits..the lowest of the low. Then he used his name and birth to convince other men to follow him in defeating evil...a suicide mission to save the lowest..and the world.
Here's an interesting fact about the movies:
The sword master that taught Viggo Mortensen all of his action scenes stated that Viggo was the most naturally talented swordsman he had ever trained.
Total sidebar: That post-credits bit was perhaps my favorite that I've ever heard! I will be chuckling for days I kid you not.
Just add to this so people understand why this is a big deal: the swordmaster is considered one of the greatest trainers of swordsmen in all of Cinema. The man trained Errol Flynn who is Ben long considered one of the greatest swordsman ever on screen. So it is a huge f****** big deal that he considers Vigo to be far better of a swordsman
@@defender2222 Exactly!
You're talking about the late Bob Anderson
@@agentspaniel4428 Yeah I recently looked him up when I learned his name and he has also done choreography for pretty much all of my favorite movies lol
Which is fortunate, as him knocking that dagger out of the air was an actual defensive move from a throw that went awry.
my favorit difference in the movie is the expansion on boromirs character, having him trying to teach the hobbits fighting and them defeating him by faking injury to establish him caring for them for example wihch is just adorable.
Only beaten by the fact that when they prepare his funeral, Aragorn takes his vembraces as token and wears them for the rest of the movie and not just that, in Awrens vision of his death, he still wears them!!!
Oh wow! You've got keen eyes, for seeing that last part!
@@edopronk1303 i might have watched those movies and behind the scenes material to them more then is health.....
Then of cause there are the audio books, audio play, podcasts.... I might be a little obcessed 😅
I kinda wish they kept in the scene from Caradhras when Gandalf gets grumpy about Legolas skipping around without falling through the snow and sends him to fetch the sun to thaw them a path. And Legolas just kinda goes with a smile on his face. But in that case, they'd have to establish Legolas as the slightly naive, easily excitable young elf he's in the books (not to say he's not badass of course, just remember he oneshot a winged beast in complete darkness)
Then iirc Legolas says that he indeed talked to the sun and she (cause in this world the sun is a she) dosent want to move from were she is 😅
7:20 The blood sacrifice by a ghost is a significant part of the book for reasons outside of Lord of the Rings. Both it and Éowyn are inspired by the Norse legend of Hervor and her cursed sword Tyrfing, a favorite of Tolkien’s. Unfortunately, other than some random swords in a handful of video games being named Tyrfing, this inclusion in Lord of the Rings marks the last pop culture reference to Hervor ever since. Seriously, she’s a really cool character with a fun story, and she appears nowhere in modern adaptations or reinterpretations of anything. Éowyn was her last shout-out, and it’s not even the same character. (The ghost scene was a reference to how she claimed her sword from a legion of ghosts, except the hobbits all got magic swords from one ghost. It being magic is why Merry’s was able to hurt the Witch-King of Angmar.)
The whole bit with Sam dancing upon receiving rope made me laugh for like, multiple minutes straight. Spectacular!
Before I even watch, this video title terrifies me because I remember you said that you wanted TLOTR movies to be the very last LiA you ever did … Dom, buddy, please tell me you’re not leaving!
I think it was a Patreon goal
Awww :( not looking forward to that day.
Don't worry I believe in his Lord of the Rings characters video, he has since changed his stance of LotR being his last videos
I had the same thought: "Oh no! Is this a Swan Song??" but no, it's a ranking
I was thinking the exact same thing. I keep saying, if he wants to do a LiA on The Lord Of The Rings but he doesn’t want it to be his last video ever, he can just do it on Ralph Bakshi’s animated version from 1978.
A lot of people like to give that movie a lot of shit, but personally I always really liked it. As one who has read the books and seen the movies, it was surprisingly faithful to the source material despite being so heavily condensed, with the first two books being crammed into a 2 hour long movie.
My favourite difference is the way Boromir is presented. In the film, from literally the first scene, it’s so clear that he will be playing the part of Judas in this story. “Gondor needs no king.”
In contrast, book Boromir is introduced coming to the defence of Rohan when their allegiance is called into question and revealing he took on the quest to spare his brother coming to risk. His eventual betrayal therefore is more surprising and is a greater display of the Ring’s corrupting power
I like how it's made clear that the ring latches on to him because of his desire to do good in the movie. He starts off as suspicious, but over time you also get to understand why. No-one else in the fellowship really wants or needs it. Instead the emphasis is placed on his redemption and his ability to inspire Aragorn.
Boromir's betrayal in the book is genuinely gut wrenching, you can see why it happens but there's still such a change in him. He's absolutely terrifying in that moment. In the films it just seems so obvious that it is going to happen, and when it does Boromir seems more whiny than malicious, it doesn't have the same effect to me.
Absolutely this.
Not sure if this counts for this book, since it's technically in Towers, but Boromirs final words to Aragorn was the death speech Bookomir deserved.
Generally...Boromir is much nicer in the books and his character is much more tragic. He's corrupted by the ring in the same way Gandalf feared he himself would be and it happens as several paths of the fellowship keep ending up in danger.
In the book Gandalf was the one that wanted to go through Moria from the get go. It was Aragorn that argued against it, because both had heard rumors about what dwells in the deep.
You also talked about Gimli becoming more of a comic relief. I think the same applies to Peregrin and Meriadoc. They were quite young for Hobbits, but they're more witty, than comical. Especially Merry has his shit together and organizes Frodo leaving the shire quite well.
Yeah, Merry & Pippin seem to be mostly treated as a joke in the movie, while in the books they definitely had some moments where they showed their intelligence.
The moment where they swear to go with frodo, despite them knowing how dangerous it would be is so moving, and the film simply had them join roads by pure comical chance
These two were my favorite characters, and the movies did them so dirty. :( Not only were they both loyal and intelligent in the books, but they have rank, which they handle in very different ways to each other. Merry is a severe badass and super protective of his friends, while Pippin is pretty much an impulsive teenager (not in human years, but in hobbit years he's still a minor, and very much acts like it at times) who is very social (and gets lonely if he's seperated from his friends for like 3 days) and has a lot of thoughts and feelings about just about anything (I would say that he is often the relatable character for the average reader whenever Sam isn't). In the movies, they are two random clowns. :/
I’ve found the Tolkien fans I talked about on another comment lol
@@StarDragonJP Agreed. They also missed out on getting show their courage as the heroes of the battle for the shire.
Alright, you asked for it. (you hit on a lot of good ones already)
Gandalf threw a little pyrotechnic flash over Bilbo’s party vanishing act in order to throw off suspicion about his sudden disappearance (presumably making it look like he instead had made Bilbo disappear).
Glorfindel met them after Weathertop instead of Arwen. Frodo was placed on Asfaloth (horse) and objected to riding to safety without his friends because he could still freaking talk instead of making noises like a wounded falcon. He alone rode away from the Nine (after he was assured that the wraiths only wanted him and the Ring) thanks to magic elf horsie and waved his little looted sword and told them to go back to Mordor before the river (spelled by Elrond) rose against them and Frodo fainted onto his broken sword.
Merry and Pippin didn’t just go along, Sam spied for them for Frodo’s sake and they formed a conspiracy to make sure he didn’t go alone.
Tom. Bombadil.
After they had dinner in Bree, Merry went for a freaking walk in the dark! Even Butterbur couldn’t believe it when he heard. And Merry nearly got taken by Black Riders who were weirdly scared off by a hobbit.
Their ponies were all stolen while they were in the Inn and Butterbur felt so bad he paid them back. They had to buy one off of a dirtbag spy who had mistreated it and Sam pampered it along the way until it was a strong and healthy pony he named Bill. After he set it free, it found its way to safety (Butterbur’s inn, I believe) and Sam got it back later.
Aragorn actually lit the fire on Weathertop because wraiths can see in the dark anyway. So all the people acting like the hobbits instead of Frodo were idiots were much mistaken.
Pippin didn’t knock an armored skeleton down the well in Moria. He just threw a pebble (learning nothing from the creature in the water outside). Gandalf reacted just as badly.
There was a warg attack in the wilderness. Gandalf drove them away with wizard fire and that was what Sam really called “an eye-opener and no mistake.”
Sam “didn’t drop no eaves” in broad daylight.
Frodo, Sam and Pippin met elves before leaving the Shire and spent a night in their camp for safety. I believe it might have actually been Gildor who told Sam not to leave Frodo.
Saruman went through a whole “they said i was mad, who’s mad now!” kind of rant before imprisoning Gandalf, after saying he was no longer Saruman the White, but Saruman on Many Colors(!) at which point Gandalf realized his robes were woven of tiny colored threads that looked white together from a distance. Gandalf dryly commented (I kid you not), “I liked white better.”
The Ring slipped onto Frodo’s finger in the Prancing Pony because Frodo had jumped up onto a table to distract everyone from Pippin’s stupidity (talking way too much) and they asked for a song. Frodo had his hand in his pocket, fell off the table after stepping on some dishes during his encore, the Ring slipped on, and he seemed to fall through the floor. The guests were not pleased and neither was the proprietor.
Sam went with Frodo to see Galadriel’s mirror. He was the one to see the Shire burning and his Gaffer turned out of his home.
Frodo was allowed to walk in the woods to clear his head when they were deciding whether to split up. Boromir was the one who slipped away to “talk” to him.
Boromir was pierced by many arrows. Three of the size of those in the film are enough to kill any man, but it was implied that Boromir actually took more before falling.
In Rivendell, Bilbo referred to Aragorn by the name “the Dunedain” and got him to help him write a song /poem which he performed for the elves, asking them to guess which parts were written by each.
Bilbo attempted to volunteer to take the Ring to Mordor. He was calmly talked down.
Rivendell was also where Frodo first saw Arwen and was low-key a bit smitten with her. Not like Gimli with Galadriel but definitely got his breath taken.
And as far as I can tell, whatever past objections might have arisen, by the time of the Fellowship, Elrond had pretty much reached a “fine, screw it, you won’t like it but you won’t listen, do what you effing want I guess” kind of acceptance of Arwen’s choice of men.
I could probably find more. I think these are all reasonably accurate. They don’t make me as angry as some in later films, but some were mightily disappointing. I liked the part where Frodo rode alone before the Nine. It was exciting.
Lol he said one he did not know. I hope one of these is one he did not know
Nice collection! May I add one more? It's a pretty big and yet seemingly elusive one (the Bakshi movie did it wrong, as well, and I misinterpreted it the first time *reading* the book, but yes, it's stated in there). Namely: The Nazgûl did NOT enter the inn in Bree to attack the hobbits. They corrupted the townfolk to do it for them.
It's a minor point but when Gandalf goes to Saruman Orthanc is still surrounded by grass and trees, while in the book it's already turned into the industrial zone that it becomes in the second film. It's another instance of messing around with time, Saruman didn't build a massive orc army in months, he'd been doing it for years (and breeding Uruk Hai from orcs & men, but that's a change for the net LIA).
Weathertop isn't nearly as much of a structure in the books, and Gandalf had a whole ass magic battle on it with the Nazgul that Frodo saw from a distance one night.
Gandalf doing actual magic is something that got cut out of pretty much every one of Jackson's films. He did quite a lot in the books.
A pretty superfluous change, tbh.
Also book Legolas was kind of an idiot.
Not that he was stupid. He was pretty smart. He was just strange. Probably due to him growing up in Mirkwood and living a sheltered life. He acted somewhat like a child, despite being centuries older than his fellow companions. He knew much about (Elven) history but he knew near to nothing about the normal world. His knowledge about Gondor and Rohan was pretty much non existant.
Also the reason why he was in Rivendell was to inform Elrond that the elves of Mirkwood had f*cked up the one single job they had. Guarding Gollum.
Than there is that part in "Fellowship". When the company tries to cross the mountains and are ankle deep in snow. Legolas just straight up abandons them, claiming to go "search for the sun". Even after coming back he jokes, oblivious that some of the company are close to freezing.
Also he wasn't such a badass in the books. Often running out of arrows in the mids of battle. And having to stop fighting to forage for more. That's why Gimli always won their little competition.
The word you're looking for is "ignorant." He also doesn't abandon them, he was trying to see how far away the path down was and came back to them to communicate that information.
I just find it funny how Glorfindel gets excised from adaptation twice now. Also fun fact, in the book because the text was somewhat vague as to whether or not Durin’s Bane had wings this sparked a debate that lasted decades as to whether it or balrogs in general had wings.
I'm leaning towards them having wings, or at least some of them. They are spirits that chose their forms, after all. After the Fellowship leaves Lothlórien they are ambushed by orc archers as well as a vast, flying shadow on wings (it was night) that reminded Gimli of the Balrog. Legolas shoots it down before they figure out what it is, but it's pretty clear it's actually a Ringwraith riding on a fell beast after we learn more about them in the later books. However, I don't know why it would remind them of Durin's Bane if it didn't have wings.
*Four* times. He isn't in the Soviet or the Finnish TV versions either.
My favorite discrepancy (other than the time crunch thing) is that Gandalf WANTED to go through Moria, while Aragorn was against it. I infer that old elf-wand was on a mission to rid Middle-Earth of all her nasties and knew he had to face the Balrog (which was also his motivation to take down Smaug), even if he had to die to do it.
I think it's not in so many words, but, with Smaug, as with the Balrog -- it would not be good if those two were still around, and Sauron happened to get ahold of the One Ring after all. Sauron would have enlisted them on his side, and done a lot more damage than he could "just" with an orc army. (And there is certainly a persistent thread of Gandalf and others having *hope* that Frodo will succeed, but like... not being blind to the possibility that he will fail and Sauron will get the Ring.)
I know! Especially since the last time Aragorn traveled through there, he felt evil was far stronger in that place. But Gandalf just thought Aragorn was just imagining things.
All the sketches were funny but the one with Sam and his rope was hysterical!
i can't but think of Sam as being like Baldrick from Blackadder.
Those Noldorim daggers that Merry and Pippin got from Galadriel were not a thing in the book. They actually took them from the Barrowdowns on the way to Bree. And the one that Merry stabbed the Witch King with was loaded down with all sorts of Witch King hateing magic because the Barrowdowns used to be one of the three petty kingdoms that Armor split into back in the day.
to be honest, i always saw galadriel`s gift of lothlorien soil to sam as an assurance that he would make it home to plant something in it. galadriel`s gift to sam was hope.
Good point.
Sam suffered from home sickness much more than the others so the gift was important to him.
The other reason tolkein included a lot of the singing was that it did some pretty good background worldbuilding for him. A lot of the songs are about people or things in the history of middle earth, many of which are relavent to characters perspectives or motivations and help build the flavor of the world. We dont need Aragorn and Arwens parallel to beren and luthien explained to us because Aragorn took an in universe moment to revisit their story in song. Its a really effective alternative to passages of text explaining the worlds history.
I think it's a bit depressing that the Return of the King, even the Extended Cut, couldn't fit in an extra ten minutes to show that Denethor had a Palantir. So much of his madness and malicious demeanor was the result of Sauron - and even a little bit of Saruman - corrupting him quietly as the Steward actively used the orb to survey the land of Gondor and know in advance when attacks were coming so he could send his favored son to head them off. Considering the damage that was caused by the one other Palantir shown in the films, it would have been so fitting to include the one Denethor had as well - you could have even easily had him holding it on top of the funeral pyre, since he had the torch in one hand and his other was just... empty.
And the fact that Aragorn was able to direct his gaze through that palatier to other places. Without that strength, all that could be seen were the burning hands of Denethor.
Ahh feck I completely forgot about this. I always hated Denethor (hell, he became a meme in the 'worst fictional fathers' category) but this actually explains a lot :O
Probably been mentioned, but Merry & Pippin drinking the entdraft which made them grow rapidly. In the books their height is referenced. It's even mentioned in the extended versions but at the end of the movies they are no taller than Sam & Frodo.
im sure you knew this one but I love in the book how Tom Bombadil is just so crazy powerful that Frodo is like 'why can't we give him the ring?' and the answer is basically that hes so strong it would mean literally nothing to him and he'd probably just misplace it in the forest somewhere. Just love the idea that everyone else in the series is going nuts trying to hold on to this thing and Tom would be like 'oh what ever happened to that ring I was supposed to keep an eye on? well, no matter, I have trees to sing to. lalaaa...'
There's a UA-camr who has a series on What If scenarios in LotR, and one of them is about this very thing. They get all the way to Mount Doom before realizing Bombadil dropped the ring near the Black Gate because he didn't like how heavy it was getting. It's hilarious
whats that video called? im gonna look it up that sounds like an interesting channel!@@deen7530
Sam's gift shows a lot of confidence from Giladriel that Sam would EVER SURVIVE to make it home and plant.
Maybe she had some kind of vision of him or something
Somehow the idea of movie Aragorn and movie Legolas singing a duet while pushing Boromir's body down a waterfall makes me giggle uncontrollably :D
19:20
Sam: ...dirt. this is a jar of dirt
Galadriel: yes
Sam: is, is the jar of dirt going to be helpful?
Galadriel: if you dont want it, give it back
Sam, clutching the jar close: no!
Book Aragorn was basically Monkey D Luffy, as he always introduces himself by going "I'm Ara G. orn and I'm gonna be king of the Gondorians!"
For non book readers; Aragorn pulling the king card is absolutely accurate to his book character
I think this is entirely based in your insecurities
I always loved Sams giftbox of dusty "dirt" flakes and the Mallorn seed. It symbolises hope for peace to come. Frodos gift was hope in darkness, Sams was hope in light.
Sam just took a rope from the boats they used when leaving Lothlorien. Just imagen you've just goten some gift just for the same thing to lay on the bottom of everyones boats, thats one way to make one feel insignificant.
"Yes Legolas I am playing THAT card" should have been in the movies. Valar bless you, dear Dom, you have made my week :)
Absolutely do this for the rest of the series! Pretty please! As for changes, I recently read Bret Devereaux' series on the realism of the Siege of Gondor and the Battle of Helm's Deep (It is fantastically nerdy reading), and he points out that a big difference between Tolkien's battles and Jackson's battles is that Tolkien's battles have moral victories, while Jackson's have mechanical victories. I had not considered this before. Tolkien's battles are overwhelmingly about which side manages to maintain hope and unity in the face of despair, while with Jackson it's more of an arms race.
A part that is fascinating to me is how many lines from the book are said word for word but completely change meaning because of the context - Treebeard being one of the most noticeable exemples
I would have liked to have seen the Scouring of the Shire in the movies, but I also like the ending as is, with the four hobbits returning to the Shire untouched by the war and feeling out of place. Also, regarding Gimli becoming comic relief, the best way I can put it is that they made Gimli feel much younger in the movies than in the books, while doing the opposite with Legolas, making him feel older in the movies than he does in the books
My sister was the one who told me that was Ori. She had read the book and made a clay piece to enter into the state fair, as soon as the first film came out. So the span of 6 months we had our first full Tolkien fangirl in the family. Now, my 8yo read the Hobbit in 10 days, loves the movies because she's 8 and they are fun, and I am working on convincing her that reading LOTR will be just as good.
Don't know if she mentioned this as well, but in case she didn't, Oin also died in Moria as well, having been 'taken by the Watcher in the Water'. A pretty gruesome but also honestly a quite metal way to die, I must say.
I never thought about it before but Tolkien's bff CS Lewis also had Aslan sing Narnia into existence. Makes me wonder if there was maybe a late night discussion in a pub or over port about the power of music.
(Note: Christianity)
.
.
.
Highly likely, given their Christian/Catholic backgrounds and a common theological theme about a creator god singing existence into being. Sometimes this is described as Wisdom and with feminine pronouns, but understood to be an aspect of their god, just as his "son" is the incarnation of himself, not a separate being.
It wouldn't surprise me if they had shared about the power of music. I suspect they were both inspired by their backgrounds in both languages and Christianity. The idea that words have power is common in the Bible and probably would have been very meaningful to these scholars of languages. Throw in the emotional power of music, and singing the world into existence feels pretty powerful.
A couple of obvious verses come to mind about the creative power of words. Genesis chapter 1 verse 3: "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." and John chapter 1 verse 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (Quotes from the King James Version)
They may also have been inspired by other stories about the creation of the world. I know that other religions teach that the world was created by words or sounds, but I don't remember any specifics.
I agree with all of these, but, having listened to the audiobook recently, there are also original moments from the film that I missed in the book, like when Gandalf showed the hobbit children a sneak peak of his fireworks when he first got to the Shire, or when Sam stops in a field and says that "if I takes one more step I'll be farther away from home than I've ever been." They're little moments, but they have stayed with me since I was a kid.
Frodo, being psychic apparently, as he dreamed of Gandalf while Gandalf was being held prisoner. Elladan and Elohir as Elrond’s twin sons and the fact they basically laid the ground work for the fellowship and contacted allies to basically give them a heads up that they were coming. They cut out a lot of the “attempted” redemption of Sméagol/Gollum by the elves and the fact that he only escaped because they dropped their guard and a bunch of orcs swarmed them. Blind folding the fellowship, (At Aragorn’s suggestion) because the Lothlorien elves didn’t want a dwarf to know where they lived.
And Legolas getting all pissy about it, after just mocking Gimli. XD
Your re-enactment of with you and the broken sword, saying "pokety" over and over again, brought tears to my eyes with laughter. Thanks so much, Dominic! 🥰
Please make a video for The Two Towers! 🙏🏾
He made it a Patrion goal to do LOTR without stopping LIA. He hit that goal a while back, he's not going anywhere.
I like how Saruman is essentially the main antagonist of the first two films. I liked how they reassigned some obstacles the fellowship had to deal with from being his doing. Like the storm and avalanche on the mountain. It did end up biting them in the ass when they cut his entire conclusion from the third film. As his role has been increased to the point he felt like he was more of the main villain the Saron
Except Saruman's role was also diminished in the films. He's cut entirely from the denouement, whereas he has a HUGE ROLE at the end of the book. Overall, he has a much more prominent arc on the page than on the screen. Lastly, his motives in the book (that he wanted the Ring for himself and tried to double-cross Sauron) are a lot more interesting.
@@brooksboy78 while I agree with you about the lord of the rings overall. The topic of discussion primarily focused on Fellowship. I even mentioned how cutting his conclusion from return of the king was a mistake
Also please do the Two Towers, I desperately need someone to validate my sadness at the change in Faramir's character to not resist the ring initially....
Worst change overall, IMHO.
Imposter Faramir makes me so mad. 😠😠😠
And Theoden's decision to head for Helm's Deep with his civilian population knowing that the enemy has taken the Fords of Isen rather than taking his household guard to (try to) reinforce the (not yet taken) Fords while Eowyn takes his civilian population to the (much closer) Dunharrow like book-Theoden - with movie-Theoden relocating everyone to Dunharrow anyway for the start of RotK.
I agree! Faramir is such a good character in the book. The behind the scenes justify ruining his character to give the Ring more meaning, because apparently too many people were refusing the power of the Ring.
@@maybelore I find the argument unconvincing - all the people refusing the Ring are acting like Frodo is offering to hand them a piece of unshielded nuclear waste, which seems to me to say more about how terrifying the Ring is than any amount of trying to grab one of the most powerful objects in Middle Earth.
It's not like the people refusing the Ring (except Bombadil) are just saying "no thanks" either - they express their temptation to claim it - even Sam is tempted to become a super-gardener - they just have the strength of will and character to not try claiming the Ring for themselves.
I need more of !DomAragorn bantering with offscreen Legolas & Gimli. 🤣
Theoden: "there really was too much singing nobody appreciates breaking out into poetry constantly"
Treebeard: "agreed"
I always loved Aragorn yelling "Elendil! Elendil!!!" every time he drew Anduril in the books, and was sad that wasn't in the movies bc Anduril wasn't in it for most of the trilogy. I also really missed Boromir's Lament in the films, I actually memorized the version of it from Rob Ingles' Audiobook version
He does do it at least once. I wouldn't have picked up the habit of randomly yelling "Elendil!" otherwise 😅
The Song of Durin is also one of my favorites (Clamavu de Prefundis has a great arrangement).
Telling history through song bears so much weight, not only are the stories of Middle Earth remembered, but they are immortalized through music
It is in the movies, just barely can hear it though.
Glad you mention Gandalf leaving for 17 years. I love dropping that bit of trivia combined with Frodo being 50 when he starts his journey on people who haven't read the books!
The fact that Frodo got nightvision from being stabbed with the Morgul Blade sorta makes sense when the idea is that the blade literally erodes your hold onto the mortal world as you slowly slip into the 'unseen' more and more, so something like like seeing in the dark makes good sense.
Yep.
I'd include the fact that Aragorn intended to return to Gondor from the get-go in the book. Before losing Gandalf, he'd planned to head to Minas Tirith with Boromir while the rest of the Fellowship continued to Mordor.
I listened to the audio books of TLoR last year for the first time(hadn’t ever read it either) and there where two Gimli related things I did not expect: first that he became lady Galadriel biggest fan and kept telling people she was the best, second was that he and Legolas became friends in one line of exposition during a time skip.
Ents!
A change I always laughed at was the motivation of the ents.
In the book they vote to go to war.
In the movie they vote not to.
They only go to war when Merry and Pippin trick Treebeard into walking past Orthanc so that he sees the devastation he somehow didn't know was happening.
What's really funny is he decides at that exact moment to march on Isengard and for some inexplicable reason all of the other ents are right there.
That'll be in "The Two Towers", but you're absolutely right. The Ents are morons in the movie.
@@brooksboy78 no they're not. Just a little bit slow of thinking (and habits).
It's so freaking weird too because it doesn't make any sense!!! Treebeard himself is going off about how Saruman has lost his way and doesn't respect nature anymore, and how trees always talk, and somehow, SOMEHOW he doesn't know what's happening at the edge of the forest :D
As epic and tear-jerking that scene is for me to this day, it is kind of funny if I think about it long enough.
You managed to skip Tom Bombadil, all of Buckland, Old Forest, and Barrow-downs! The whole Hobbiton-Bree was supercondensed. And the Weathertop was rather different, both in what happened, and how it looked (I guess they just found the funky hill in NZ and *had to* use it). I would have liked to see the dwarves to escort Bilbo - the thought of old lonely hobbit hoofing to Rivendell all on his own was quite absurd.
Thank you someone has respect for tom
Well to be fair he did make a whole video about major characters that didn't make it into the films already, so probably just didn't want to cover old ground.
Plus, he did mention the Hobbits' Old Forest adventures in passing, during the point about their whole journey to Bree being different.
@@JackChristmas True, but Tom was just crazy AF, so it's odd not to point it out.
@@JackChristmas Ah, I have missed that one, I need to watch that.
What I'd really like to see LoTR as is a miniseries, maybe a season a book, where there would be more time to explore the story.
I am from the future, I've already watched it in its entirety multiple times, and it is of course, a banger. Good job as always Dom.
I once read that in the film universe farmer Maggot most likely got investigated for the murder of Merry and Pippin by the Shire authorities.
Like since they banished without a trace after going out to steal Maggot's vegetables, everyone assumed he killed them and fed the bodies to his dogs to get rid of the evidence. He didn't go to jail because there was no proof, but everyone accepted that was what happened
9:50 "When you are a future king, Legolas Greenleaf, son of Thranduil, prince of Woodland realm, you can... wait a second..."
I love that a chance encounter leads to Merry and Pippin joining the fellowship and helping to save Middle Earth. It feels so on-brand. Hobbits know very little about the world outside the Shire and don't want to leave it. Even so, once they're in unfamiliar situations their courage and resourcefulness allow them to endure and accomplish amazing things. An individual, no matter how small and seemingly insignificant, can make a positive difference in the world.
"G to the Grey," I must use this phrase in the future 😂❤
My favorite little change is Caradhras
the fact that the mountain itself is in some way alive and full of spite and just doesn't want anyone to pass is a wonderful bit of worldbuilding, fitting into the whole theme "this world is old and powerful and we and sauron are only living in it"
however it would be completely pointless in the movie
instead Saruman, the primary antagonist of the first two movies (or one of) gets to do something, and again bests gandalf at Magical Thingies showing us that they can't just go and kick his ass
IT felt rather normal in the book, as it was already known that stone giants lived in the mountans and could cause avalanches.
If I remember correctly, (to tag onto your singing point) the fellowship itself liked to get everyone together in a song around the campfire or while they were walking. It was a good way to keep their spirits up.
and a good way to pass the time on long hikes.
Sam: Is the box of dirt going to help?
Galadriel: If you don't want it, give it back.
Sam: No.