A salesman called me to tongue lash me about joining this scam(FBN), I knew little about it at the time, and after he explained how it works I said "so it's a Sams club for farmers?" He could not get me to understand that I was wrong.
Played with Pivot Bio over a few years. We have a 30 acre test plot, that get many different trials every year. Never was able to get Pivot Bio to do anything, never paid for it self once. That said Source has been the same, applied upfront, foliar, no yield difference. Have yet to find one product that really works in the last 30 years we have been doing these trials. We have been working mostly on strip till, different cover crops, different forms of tillage, fertility rates, seeding rates, etc. in our plots as of the last 10 years.
Yep, Even when I did get a product to pay for itself, it was I handled 5 extra bushels of corn through the combine, dryer, storage,and then trucked to the cities for zero profit to me.
I’ve used envita and done two on farm trials one was 3bpa and other one was 8bpa. These were on two different farms. The 8bpa trial was on ground that had hog manure. I think both of these trials are a real life expectation of a nitrogen fixing product. I don’t believe piviot bio and it being able to replace 40lbs of n. Looks to me like it pixy dust
Ur right I tried it and it was horrible on the crop and I won’t ever try it again, can’t even stand watching farm shows anymore because every commercial is a pivot bio commercial
@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 I actually made a video on my channel about how disappointed I was on proven 40 that I tried 4 months ago, it seemed like it totally changed the corn plant and how it looked, we actually lost bushel’s on it and we had a great year
So I just had a Ha ney soil test run byMidwest labs. I think you've done something like this. Any guidance appreciated. I've been on a kick trying to find what P is in the soil. Been through melich3, bray1, olson, and something else. The haney is matching real well to bray 1. Overall they give me a 26.8 score on a 1-25 scale. Thanks.
Total digestible nutrient assay. Not sure which one I trust. Standard test is great for selling fertilizer, but do you trust a assay to make decisions?
@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 Well I'm thinking to do chicken litter next season, thought this was a good place holder as any. My plan is a couple of strip trials with P&K and checks with tissue testing along the way. I think the strip trials vary enough so that if one of these guys is the weakest link it should show sometime in the tissue test. But we'll see. Rain and weather anda ll. Good luck up there. Planters are rolling here.
I mentioned to you at your field day. That two local coop's had 2 different opinions on all the biologicals. One said out right they are not worth it. And the other kind of pushed them, showed some benefits of them, but I was not really convinced.
Federated told me micros don't work, just buy more NPK, Strip till dont work, to cold and wet Covers are a waste, why put more weeds out there. Foliar don't work, until foliar products came along, then it's you have to try this.
Good old rant video. Nicely done. Canada now requires all snake oil to be registered with the PMRA similar to any other crop protection product. Efficacy trials are a part of that process. Envita and utricia N both are registered but struggle to make any return for the farmer in corn and beans. That being said both show promise in several horticulture crops and in soft red winter wheat.
I have never used Pivot Bio and I believe you are correct that it will not work but only for part of your reasons. The bug klebsilie they use is facultative and therefore does not need oxygen. But it does need a home and a food source which most Ag soils don’t have as synthetic nitrogen destroyed that a long time ago. You are correct in that all the other cides could destroy it. Biggest reason it won’t work is because even if the bugs survive they will not work hard to fix there own nitrogen if you supply it for them.
A product that is worth looking at Jon is from purple cow organics from Madison Wisconsin. The amount of biology they have in their product cx1 is crazy. Midwestern bio ag by me handles the stuff and it works. I’m going to use it this year after talking to bio ag customers that have used it and are happy with it. It’s made from plant based compost. You need a carbon source to go along with it to activate the biology like molasses or something along those lines.
100% honest, I did not know those people were tied to this product. But it makes sense now, how a company/product that is showing little to no benefit can keep increasing their media footprint.
Snake Oil Salesmen were the Best Dressed, top hat included, hawkers out the back of fancy tarted up wagons back in the day. And media spends pay dividends immediately.
Agree with you 100%, never had any success with bugs in a jug. Trying a pasteurized algae product called Phyco Terra seen positive results, think feeding the existing microbes works better than adding new ones.
Seems PB40 is at best an opportunity for full conventional farms to re-introduce a little good biota to their dirt. Also seems like a complete waste for those who farm healthy soil.
We should just go back in time, say 50 or 60 plus years and implement better crop rotations, green manure, etc, like our ancestors! Mother nature knows what she's doing, man pushing his will on her design fails in some form or another!
Our ancestors were horrible stewerts of the land. Theres a reason it was called the dirty thirties...They moldboard plowed and disked the soil to powered. Theres a reason that fence lines always have the best dirt in them
Hey Jon just curious if you're heard of a product called Holganix bio 800. It's a live biological that's being push in our area of northwest Iowa/ southwest Minnesota and was wondering if you've heard or done any trials with it.
@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 they claim it's been around for years and have been using it for turf management on golf courses.. it's one of those biologicals that has to stay cool until used and it sounds somewhat legit but it seems expensive per acre and they don't have a lot of actual yield data.. they say they are still in the proving phase on the crop side and want guys to try it. But for $20/acre it seems less like an expensive trial on the farmers part
Not a fan of biological recipes. Your biology is unique to your farm, your individual fields, or even from what works from one end of the field to the other. Find your fertility in house, and bio generate from there. John, I will keep this simple, you’re familiar with corn and soybeans. I grow a 70 bpa .9, soybean, and hold back my own seed, and I grow 200 bushel 75 day corn. I’m 100% irrigated, subsurface drip, but I’m usually only applying .5-3.0 inches per acre across the farm. You are in no man’s land. No premium, lower yields, but also lower inputs. Only u know how well that is working out for you.
Are you a weirdo? YES! But not one of those dark corner of a strip club or”island” kind. You’re the kind that will try something and explain why it did or didn’t work which is pretty uncommon these days on social media. Best of luck on your field trial.
Pivot bio is just extreemly overpriced extreemly watered down Humic acid. Like 90% water 5% humates Get the straight uncut stuff from leonardite mines, Jon, your very close to the leonardite mines in ND
"Fraudulent Business Network" made me laugh
A salesman called me to tongue lash me about joining this scam(FBN), I knew little about it at the time, and after he explained how it works I said "so it's a Sams club for farmers?" He could not get me to understand that I was wrong.
Played with Pivot Bio over a few years. We have a 30 acre test plot, that get many different trials every year. Never was able to get Pivot Bio to do anything, never paid for it self once. That said Source has been the same, applied upfront, foliar, no yield difference. Have yet to find one product that really works in the last 30 years we have been doing these trials. We have been working mostly on strip till, different cover crops, different forms of tillage, fertility rates, seeding rates, etc. in our plots as of the last 10 years.
Yep,
Even when I did get a product to pay for itself, it was I handled 5 extra bushels of corn through the combine, dryer, storage,and then trucked to the cities for zero profit to me.
I’ve used envita and done two on farm trials one was 3bpa and other one was 8bpa. These were on two different farms. The 8bpa trial was on ground that had hog manure. I think both of these trials are a real life expectation of a nitrogen fixing product. I don’t believe piviot bio and it being able to replace 40lbs of n. Looks to me like it pixy dust
Ur right I tried it and it was horrible on the crop and I won’t ever try it again, can’t even stand watching farm shows anymore because every commercial is a pivot bio commercial
Kind of. The second that lady start talking about it I fast forward.
@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 I actually made a video on my channel about how disappointed I was on proven 40 that I tried 4 months ago, it seemed like it totally changed the corn plant and how it looked, we actually lost bushel’s on it and we had a great year
@@easternshorefarmer interesting
wouldnt it be cheaper and better to plant into clover vetch or pea, alfalfa ,and get more nitrogen from them then pivot bio
We could for sure farm in a manner that would bring more fresh products to the consumer and the farmer wouldn't be so dependent on inputs.
So I just had a Ha ney soil test run byMidwest labs. I think you've done something like this. Any guidance appreciated. I've been on a kick trying to find what P is in the soil. Been through melich3, bray1, olson, and something else. The haney is matching real well to bray 1. Overall they give me a 26.8 score on a 1-25 scale. Thanks.
Total digestible nutrient assay. Not sure which one I trust. Standard test is great for selling fertilizer, but do you trust a assay to make decisions?
@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 Well I'm thinking to do chicken litter next season, thought this was a good place holder as any. My plan is a couple of strip trials with P&K and checks with tissue testing along the way. I think the strip trials vary enough so that if one of these guys is the weakest link it should show sometime in the tissue test. But we'll see. Rain and weather anda ll. Good luck up there. Planters are rolling here.
I mentioned to you at your field day. That two local coop's had 2 different opinions on all the biologicals. One said out right they are not worth it. And the other kind of pushed them, showed some benefits of them, but I was not really convinced.
Federated told me micros don't work, just buy more NPK,
Strip till dont work, to cold and wet
Covers are a waste, why put more weeds out there.
Foliar don't work, until foliar products came along, then it's you have to try this.
Good old rant video. Nicely done. Canada now requires all snake oil to be registered with the PMRA similar to any other crop protection product. Efficacy trials are a part of that process. Envita and utricia N both are registered but struggle to make any return for the farmer in corn and beans. That being said both show promise in several horticulture crops and in soft red winter wheat.
Interesting about the PMRA.
Good job Jon! I have tried to get some of these products explained. When I hear the answers I come away thinking that did not make any sense.
Call up Chris Masters over at Biovante. He will change your farm and soil, but only if you're willing.
Thanks for the info.
I have never used Pivot Bio and I believe you are correct that it will not work but only for part of your reasons. The bug klebsilie they use is facultative and therefore does not need oxygen. But it does need a home and a food source which most Ag soils don’t have as synthetic nitrogen destroyed that a long time ago. You are correct in that all the other cides could destroy it. Biggest reason it won’t work is because even if the bugs survive they will not work hard to fix there own nitrogen if you supply it for them.
Good info, thanks!
A product that is worth looking at Jon is from purple cow organics from Madison Wisconsin. The amount of biology they have in their product cx1 is crazy. Midwestern bio ag by me handles the stuff and it works. I’m going to use it this year after talking to bio ag customers that have used it and are happy with it. It’s made from plant based compost. You need a carbon source to go along with it to activate the biology like molasses or something along those lines.
Midwest bio ag, as in Gary zimer?
@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 he was the founder. It's run by Gaji Balakaneshan now and he did an interview on Farm Talk's UA-cam channel.
Yes
I'm not a big fan of it either. I didn't know that all of the p.o.s. people backed them! Thanks for letting us know.
I used it for two years now, I'm done with it.
100% honest, I did not know those people were tied to this product. But it makes sense now, how a company/product that is showing little to no benefit can keep increasing their media footprint.
Snake Oil Salesmen were the Best Dressed, top hat included, hawkers out the back of fancy tarted up wagons back in the day. And media spends pay dividends immediately.
Agree with you 100%, never had any success with bugs in a jug. Trying a pasteurized algae product called Phyco Terra seen positive results, think feeding the existing microbes works better than adding new ones.
I like that thought. If we have been improving soil health and life, maybe just stimulate that system?!
Kinda our thoughts, how do we know that those bugs get along with what we're introducing to the environment.
Seems PB40 is at best an opportunity for full conventional farms to re-introduce a little good biota to their dirt. Also seems like a complete waste for those who farm healthy soil.
That's where I think manure/compost comes in whether you are pasturing your own livestock or buying it somehow.
@@danw6014
Is this where I guy just makes his own compost teas and be done?
We should just go back in time, say 50 or 60 plus years and implement better crop rotations, green manure, etc, like our ancestors! Mother nature knows what she's doing, man pushing his will on her design fails in some form or another!
Our ancestors were horrible stewerts of the land. Theres a reason it was called the dirty thirties...They moldboard plowed and disked the soil to powered. Theres a reason that fence lines always have the best dirt in them
True, but at the time that is what they knew. Kind of like a doctor in the 50s smoking in the office.
@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 😁😁
@@PaulsonFarms Fence rows- soil left untouched/no disturbance, never bare, also act as a wind and water break to catch any run off!
Hey Jon just curious if you're heard of a product called Holganix bio 800. It's a live biological that's being push in our area of northwest Iowa/ southwest Minnesota and was wondering if you've heard or done any trials with it.
I have not, Every day a new product is coming out. A guy can not keep up.
@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 they claim it's been around for years and have been using it for turf management on golf courses.. it's one of those biologicals that has to stay cool until used and it sounds somewhat legit but it seems expensive per acre and they don't have a lot of actual yield data.. they say they are still in the proving phase on the crop side and want guys to try it. But for $20/acre it seems less like an expensive trial on the farmers part
Not a fan of biological recipes. Your biology is unique to your farm, your individual fields, or even from what works from one end of the field to the other. Find your fertility in house, and bio generate from there.
John, I will keep this simple, you’re familiar with corn and soybeans. I grow a 70 bpa .9, soybean, and hold back my own seed, and I grow 200 bushel 75 day corn. I’m 100% irrigated, subsurface drip, but I’m usually only applying .5-3.0 inches per acre across the farm.
You are in no man’s land. No premium, lower yields, but also lower inputs. Only u know how well that is working out for you.
You are not a weirdo.
I repeat, you are NOT a weirdo.
Good.
Ha! Thanks
Are you a weirdo? YES! But not one of those dark corner of a strip club or”island” kind. You’re the kind that will try something and explain why it did or didn’t work which is pretty uncommon these days on social media. Best of luck on your field trial.
Ha thanks.
I have met a lot of good people on social media, but also a lot of sellout fakes.
Pivot bio is just extreemly overpriced extreemly watered down Humic acid. Like 90% water 5% humates Get the straight uncut stuff from leonardite mines, Jon, your very close to the leonardite mines in ND
Interesting info.
My seed guy is trying his bestest to get me to try pb40
you could do what olf is doing, he using #NIGHT SOIL, thats 5-5-25 and full of biology ..Your close enough to get #NIGHT SOIL from the twin cities...
Yeeeeehhhhhhaaaaw! Organic low input is the ideal environment for biologicals to have an effect.
Someday I will have a Moses video and you will be like I knew it !
So much for trading your Claas for an X9 with your Fbn endorsement check. Good thing you went to college to turn wrenches to have a warm shop lol.
Ha, I will be poor with my integrity.
Brian Kroll could look at it. You know him
Geez Jon, no need to sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel!
I am getting old, no time to waste anymore!
When you're farming it's amazing how fast 40 years goes by!
Only name you ad to say was Billy Boy and No Fing way would I want it....
100% agree.
Good to have you looking out for us
Ha, don't know about that.
"FBN" 😂