I think the optical disc is the greatest format ever invented for listening to music. No ticks, pops, inner-groove distortion, dish warping, no pearling, no spending $2000 on a phono pre just to get a silent background, etc. It's a lot more hassle to listen to vinyl. With a cd, you just hit play and it just plays. It'll sound the same the day you bought it, or 25 years later, without cleaning. But at the end of the day, cd's can sound amazing and so can a vinyl record.
I just wish they didn't compress the signal to hell and back for CD. It is sad this is the norm, unless it's classical music. I want the wider dynamic range that the CD offers. There are lps that have greater dynamic range than the CD counterpart. We have a volume knob if we want it louder. FYI - I like both formats. As respects re-releasing classical music on lp, that was going on in the mid 90's with the Classic Records RCA reissues.
I speak for Jazz only, most of the Jazz CD´s I have are unlistenable, awful sound, if you like this you don't know how amazing vinyl sounds. Yes more work to do, but worth it. But as I said, Jazz only from my experience at least.
@@vinylrules4838 Yes. I agree with you. But that's not the cd's fault. It drives me crazy the way music has been mastered on cd's for the last 25 years.
@@mymixture965 I don't listen to jazz, so I'll have to take your word for it. But bad mastering has nothing to do with the cd format. Also I do know how good vinyl can sound. It just a lot more hassle to get there than a good sounding cd. Turntable, tonearm, cartridge, then aligning, what phone pre amp you use. And let's not get into mono lp's and switching out the cartridge for a mono cartridge. I'd rather just hit play. Just my opinion though.
It was a "rushed" invention! Even Bernie grundman told Sony that he thought it was a good idea, but he didn't think they were done! He told them they could do much better, and he was right! In their hast to rush it out to the public, Sony wouldn't even speak to him after that! It was a bad rushed invention that doesn't come close to LPs! Saying that I don't have a problem with them, I play them sometimes! But there's much better definition audio out there on streaming platforms like "Quobuz" and "Tidal" that blows Redbook 44.1k/16 bit away!
I totally agree with u…I haven’t bought vinyl since ‘82 wen I 1st heard cd’s & have never looked back..I’m still using my cd player from ‘82 which at the time cost me $999.99
I guess your cartridge was not very good. Tangible high quality magnetic technology with a consistent wave of sound is always going to beat speculative digits on a computer.
@@CuriousEnthusiast956 Vinyl masters have to be specially mixed and a lot of compromises are taken into account, all the bass has to be centered and limiters are used to restrict the dynamic range to stop the needle from jumping off the record, plus vinyl has about 60dB noise floor, not superior to digital at all.
@nicksterj Standard cds are Not High Res Files. The digital format or Quality you mention, is Not what’s most Widely available to the public in the physical format. Standard cds are crap
The music matters, and sometimes when titles are not available on Vinyl it's great to have it on CD or vice versa,. There is no wrong as long as it's physical media ;)
@@Lilian-cs6on hey Einstein for someone who is trying to come off as an expert behind your empty profile you sure have no idea how to use the reply button on a post as you replied to my comment that doesnt even mention the word vinyl. GFYS
@@JadeStarr anyone who uses the word vinyl to describe a phonograph record needs to be sent to a reeducation camp for one year. Write your congressman today to pass the “Just say no to vinyl” act
@@Lilian-cs6on 78's were made from shellac, albums are made from Polyvinyl Chloride and the Polyvinyl Acetate hence they are called Vinyl so before you start spouting do some research
I have been following David Hurwitz for some years now and he has taught me a lot about classical music. I am also his same age (younger Boomer or liminal Gen Xer), so I went throught my youth collecting records and then sold them all in the 80s because I needed to eat. I was then all in on CD for 35 years and have an enormous CD collection, mostly jazz, but choice classical and rock items, too. I think that a preference for CD makes perfect sense for a classical collector because the clear dry sound really serves orchestral music, and there are masses of great recordings from the 1950s, 60s and 70s that have been rescued from obscurity by the CD and improved in many cases from poor original pressings. There are now so many great operas as well as collections of works by a single conductor that would never have been available again on vinyl and are only possible on CD. That said, I finally bought a turntable last year and got back into the vinyl thing. The turntable is only a $300 job, mid-fi at best, yet I agree with you completely. A new jazz or rock reissue mastered by a Bernie Grundman, for instance, sounds better on vinyl. It's a vibrational thing. The acoustic and analogue signal path reaches your speakers and you simply hear more overtones and detail in the music. Strings, snare drums, cymbals, an overblown sax, all have a kind of thing that hangs in the air and touches you. Some of my jazz CDs, e.g., the great OJC series of the 1980s and 90s, still sound spectacular, and it's not worth buying an expensive $40 vinyl reissue to get only marginal improvement. But if cost were no object and I could choose which one to own and listen to, I'd almost always opt for the vinyl. The rare exception would be cases in which the original tape has audibly degraded, such as Kevin Gray's woeful master of Sonny Rollins' Newk's Time. In the end, we live in the real world and cost is an object, and the fact is that I acquired most of my OJCs for an average of $8 a piece on the used market. Vinyl still can't compete with that. I would recommend anyone thinking about getting into vinyl to consider how deep their pockets are because it is too easy to drop $200 in a record store and run your credit cards up, as I have done the past year. I wish I had stuck to CD collecting and never eaten of the Tree of Knowledge which is vinyl. I know how good it can sound yet now deny myself new records all the time. David Hurwitz is a wise old cat.
I'm just a few years younger than him, and have learned a lot from him and gotten many wonderful recording recommendations as well. That being said, for non-classical music- and classical music on the best-quality vinyl- I prefer the vinyl playback sound given the greater sense of 'depth of field' from it vs digital playback, plus certain timbral advantages from vinyl sound, plus more subtle dynamics and the like.
Technically speaking, CD technology is far superior to vinyl. It's not the same mastering process, and that's where we should be looking for the differences in sound quality. I wouldn't even be surprised if digital was 'sabotaged' to give vinyl a slight advantage, in order to exploit audiophiles even more. Something to think about...
I love David Hurwitz, I've been watching his videos for a couple of years. I like his no nonsense approach to criticism. You get his views, and I see no reason to question his perspective as I'm there to hear Mr Hurwitz spout his thoughts. See you on Saturday 👍
I love both formats. I play CD's when I'm doing things around the house. I play Vinyl when I want to listen "Seriously" sitting in the sweet spot and just listen to the music.
I also love and have both formats but I also play a CD when I listen seriously, sitting in the sweet spot and just listen to the music. I don't get why a format would make any difference.
With vinyl it is not all about the music. It is about the addition of needle-in-groove distortion -- and if you go entirely "retro" to tube reproduction you add additional distortion.
@@thomaslytle5519 it remains the REALITY that vinyl ADDS DISTORTION, which adds artifacts to the music that isn't the music. Bullshit about it all you want, that is the REALITY. CDs are distortion free -- get used to it.
Hi Mazzy, I've more or less run out of space for my CD's so have taken the radical course of action of ditching jewel cases for sleeves. The ratio is about 4:1, so a lot of albums have come out of storage boxes. One drawback of UK house is that they are a lot smaller than ones Stateside, unless you have a big wallet. So space is often at a premium.
Something I never see anybody say: it depends on which pressing was done better -- sometimes it's CD, sometimes it's vinyl. They are mastered differently so one will usually sound better.
yes! - take Christopher Cross - self titled - much better on LP than CD. Whereas Belinda Carlisle self titled better on the CD version. Its the mastering not the medium
@@dxer22000 A much better question would be something like: Under what circumstances does vinyl sounds better than CD and vice versa? I generally prefer vinyl for music created before 1980. The 80s had plenty of good-sounding albums for vinyl and CD. But, like you said, it just depends. The question of "which sounds better" gets clicks but it's not all that useful. You gave specific examples and one came to my mind: I love the sound of ELO - Discovery on vinyl (mastered by Stan Ricker). I got the consensus best-sounding CD pressing (also mastered by Stan Ricker) and it's completely flat compared to the vinyl. I was really disappointed.
Good reaction and some great points after Dave's initial posting here too. I'm a librarian and love books, but the times for public libraries are really difficult now because in general the public out there doesn't put any value on collecting nor collections of fixed objects any more
I sold my classical LP's 38 years ago and never looked back. I listen 99% of the time to classical piano music. I do not miss the pop's and tick's etc. The issue with CD's is Delta Sigma vs. R2R. For me R2R is superior to DS. My son has 1200 lp's and loves vinyl - more power to him. The other issue is the limited availability of classical vinyl. The greatest classical pianists are not available on vinyl. Very nice video.
I was going to respond with exactly the same points you have said. When I tried an R2R DAC I heard a significant difference compared with Delta Sigma DAC’s. The heart and soul and emotion of the music was back, and without the hassle of Vinyl. For me the difference between Sigma Delta and R2R was as significant as between CD’s and Vinyl. The other problem with Vinyl for classical music is the availability. A tiny percentage of classical music recorded in the last 40 years is available on Vinyl. Actually most of the new reissues on Vinyl are old analog recordings. Vinyl is a complete no go for classical music for the great majority of people.
I use to split my time between cds and vinyl. But lately it’s been the reverse. I don’t play cds as much as i do vinyl. I don’t hunt as much for cds as i do vinyl. I just like the sound and the tactile aesthetic of vinyl.
I don’t have a vinyl system anymore, can’t afford what I would like ideally for them, and the cost of vintage or reissued records. I reminisce about my 1000s collection that I sold off many many years ago when I moved and no longer had the space or could move them (again and again). I can’t compare the sound because of this, but… The one thing I can say about the listening experience was the ‘process.’ Picking an album out off the shelf, handling the record out of the sleeve and placing on the turntable, moving the arm over and hearing those few seconds of crackle, and the 2-sides of the performance (planned my multi-album listening experience by ‘sides’). I got use to the few pops now and then, and those then and now [as I remember them still] just added an organic real physical feel. Not sure I remember you saying another very real element to a vinyl album are those beautiful big album covers/sleeves [sometimes the additional posters/etc.] The ART work, that so much time and energy was put into.
I agree vinyl seems warmer Maz but here’s the thing….it’s all in your mind: like me (I’m 76) you’ve grown up on vinyl; your subconscious is re-acting to the deeper memories associated with the pleasure, the warmth, all the things that records signify for you. People say that vinyl is warm and cd’s are cold…it’s really because your vinyl memories are older and richer than cd’s. I prefer cd’s even though I have a massive 1960/1970’s collection of LP’s simply because I don’t have to get up and turn the LP over! All my old friends, many of whom are in the next world now and whom I am looking forward to seeing again soon :-), are hovering in those LP’s but I can’t help but love to hear the whole album at one go….and what makes me convinced it’s just the subconscious associations that are making you feel that somehow it’s warmer with vinyl is because I have intellectually taught myself to ignore that. So there’s my input….and here’s the great thing to look forward to….music in the next world is even better than the music here ok! John Lennon is still writing songs, Mozart is still composing, Johan Sebastian is still colossal on the organ :-) Music is a part of our lives wherever we are Peace and love Tony
I've heard people who have had NDE's say that music is still a thing "over there!" Here on earth, a "warm" sounding CD or streaming system is easy to achieve if that's what you seek.
@tonyaustin4472 What about all the people that get into Vinyl for the first time with a good setup and do find the sound to be more warmer and organic? I think you're trying way too hard to simplify and generalize the arguments.
@@CuriousEnthusiast956 I get your point….but like Mazzy says, it’s our viewpoint that inputs into what we think and the judgements we make. Is someone new to vinyl reacting to the difference in the size and feel of the LP compared with the CD? ….is it the subconscious lining up with comments seen and heard from others? We are all influenced subliminally by a host of barely perceived exposures and variables. I agree with Mazzy; go with what you feel :-)
Both formats are awesome. I’m doing CDs right now because they are cheaper and more convenient. With the right mastering, CDs can sound really warm (e.g. Chet Baker Sings - very warm!). I have young children, and CD players are more robust than turntables - which helps when kids are running around the place!
There are some albums i dont own on vinyl because i dont love them. but i have them on CD in case i ever feel the need to check it out. Thats all my CD player is for. Its for albums or live concerts that i dont have on vinyl.
Well, in my opinion Hardware plays an important role on (quality) listening and enjoyment CD Players, differences among good and high end players i not something to call home, the output signal suffer less, is easier to design and build than the phono one Now lets go into vinyl. The record players of today are not as good as those from yesterday, yes some brands keep building comparable players of the past. But more, more expensiive or affordable. Do averagevinyl fans do,most of then have these? And the main actor is :the CARTRIDGE, the current selection is far from wide, even brands and models offerings are ridiculos with those from the 70's. I loved the (japanese speciality) Moving coils (MC), over the common moving magnet (MM) ones. Today there is any Mc? hardly. Do amplifiers have MC inputs? no that I know. MCs sound was highly pleased from audiophiles despite their excesive price difference. And needles? Diamonds that no last forever (one, two, five thousand hours? Needles read, follow the groove irregularities (the pressing differences) and wear the record surface and life. Do you have a (very) good turntable and cartridge? A good phono section in your amplifier? And a good pressing? O.K. let's compare then seriouly, without bias or expectations. Otherwise.....
@@dizwell Analogue recordings, such as those on vinyl records or magnetic tape, capture sound in a continuous wave, which is a more direct representation of the original audio signal. This continuous waveform is often cited as being more natural and closer to the original sound than the ‘stair-stepped’ approximation created by digital sampling.
I like both CDs and records. Records are from my childhood, CDs came out when I was a teenager. I still have my CDs from the late 80s and 90s. I view my collection as a Time-line of my musical journey.
@@Pluralofvinylisvinylsohhh! That’s why they won’t play on my turntable when I hook it up to my car! Thank you. Won’t be doing that again anytime soon!
Mazzy, I pretty much agree with everything you said. (I'm old also) If I want background music while I'm piddling around the house, CDs or streaming are acceptable. If I want to relax and LISTEN to good or great music, I'll put on an (analog) LP, and sit for awhile. I think in many of these vinyl vs. CD discussions, it's important to mention that MOST of the Vinyl LPs made in the last 45 years (since about 1980ish) are digitally mastered or remastered, so it makes little difference if you play one of them or a CD. Yet I understand that some vinyl/digital cuts are made from higher resolution digital files than used on the CD, so in this case the Vinyl might sound better than the CD.
Two thoughts: I like vinyl because I have a passion for it from the hunt; digging through bins and dusty attics to placing the stylus on the vinyl and hearing nuances I only hear on vinyl. Streaming: great as background music CDs: Clear listening experience to enjoy the music Vinyl: An intentional listening & tactical experience where the music enters my mind and offers a creative experience to “see” the music in my mind.
Here in Sweden it is all about streaming and vinyl. I like Cd:s best though :). I am 51 so I remember both the vinyl era and cd era. Your collection is impressive.
I was working a graphic designer in the 90s primarily creating cd packaging. One of the reasons consistently argued for jewel cases were to provide a spine large enough for radio DJs to read the artists and title when the CD was on the shelf. Supposedly this would help the music to get more plays.
I'm 63 and started my collection aged 12 in 1973. Vinyl was the thing- cassettes were convenient for listening on the go and for mix tapes for parties. I never bought any pre recorded tapes. When CDs came along I fully embraced the format- convenience, easier to store, no warping, no cleaning and no surface noise. I embraced mini disc which was another terrific format- the first where you didn't have to record in real time- the convenience and sound quality was a clear winner over cassette tape. I embraced MP3s and the I-pod- another revolutionary paradigm shift. SACD, HDCD, UHQCD, 24 Bit remasters etc all provided excellent sound reproduction. Of course the music is far more important than the format at the end of the day. Like many people I live happily in a multi format environment. It's horses for courses. I stream in the car I listen to vinyl occasionally from my large collection that I never sold off. I mainly listen to my large collection of digital discs because its so much easier- the relationship is vastly different from streaming where I tend to jump around all over the place. You pays your money you takes your choice. I'm tired of the binary choice and the ridiculous nonsense of having to chose a side at the exclusion of all else. Just enjoy the music.
I’ve only just started buying vinyls, but I’m definitely becoming invested! That being said I’m still buying cds as well, because Gorillaz sounds great now matter which format you go with! I am however starting to really love the more personal almost intimate aspect of listening to vinyl (even as much of a hassle as it to get up in the middle of the record to flip the b-side). It makes me feel like I’m interacting with the music itself! I love cds however because of the fact that you can just pop it in and listen without having to stream it on the internet thus allowing me to unplug from the matrix so to speak. In short I kinda love both formats for different reasons, and to buy both in the future going forward
I recently came across a 24 box “The greatest Jazz recordings of All Time" collection put out by franklin mInt and curated by the Institute for Jazz Studies at Rutgers University. The quality of the packaging including booklets of extensive commentaries by all manner of writers and academics is superb. This came out forty years ago - 100 cassettes of superbly curated masterpieces from the earliest recordings to the 1980s. 150 hours of jazz for Twenty quid - about 30 dollars…Of course I bought it. Then I bought a classic pioneer cassette player…and guess what ? it sounds terrific….so many of these recordings I had never heard - and I have a large jazz collection on cd and vinyl….it is, after all, the journey, not the car….vive la difference - in all things, not just music...
I appreciate the fact that during the filming of this video you keep walking from the vinyl room to the CD room and back. Your collection is impressive, not to mention all the box sets. By the way, I am a CD guy, but I can accept the fact that there is more magic to the sound of vinyl, because it doesn't make my listening to CD-s less enjoyable. I am just content with what I have...
I agree on the music first. The biggest issue for me is that fringe classical (HIPP Baroque, weird strings such as viola d'amore, viola da gamba, baryton, tromba marina) is not available on vinyl. Fringe contemporary pop/rock is available in small editions on vinyl. The interpretations of early classical music (baroque, renaissance, medieval) is so much different from even 20-30 years ago, so just getting old vinyl is positively not workable. I'd much prefer good fringe classical music on vinyl.
Hi Mazzy, Many people have gone back to LPs for a reason and that is the feeling you get both in sound and in the actions you have to take. From about 1986, I only bought cds with one or two exceptions. Then in November 2012 (which was when the Beatles Box set came out on elpee) I started collecting records again in addition to cds. When I had just bought the Beatles Box set I was worried for a moment that the records might not sound good, but I was completely wrong they sounded and still sound fantastic I was brainwashed by the record industry and that has lasted for 26 years. My preference now is for LPs, this still gives the sound I'm going for. Best regards from the Netherlands
Also a double gatefold LP is thicker than a jewel case and modern CDs come in slim digipacks now anyway. Like you say take into account the height and depth of shelving an LP vs a CD. CDs definitely don’t require as much space to store.
@@michaelb9664 It is a way comes out even: two CDs is about the height of one LP. But an LP is about twice the thickness of a (jewel case) CD. Some of the cheaper digipack CDs don't have a spine, so that is a problem with on-shelf cataloging. The one thing LPs have is one aspect of their size: the covers were traditionally designed for a twelve inch square; and the text was readable without a microscope (or a telescope for the farsighted). That's where the comparisons end: the sound of CDs is superior because it omits the distortions added by playback equipment. And the Jackson "deconstruction" system has added possibilities of recordings with all tape hiss eliminated. I grew up from earliest memories with recordings and record players in the house -- and the first were 78s. 99.99 per cent of those were lacquer; when dropped they shattered. Then my sister began buying the relatively new format 45s, which were vinyl, in circa 1958. And I began buying vinyl in 1963 -- have a ton of it occupying space which could be better purposed.
I never converted to CD as, from the outset in the mid 1980s, I found the format tiring to listen to. I concede that on classical recordings the absolute silence of CD is preferable over the odd frustrating click or pop but for my listening of blues/rock/pop the whole vinyl experience from the tactility to the sound is preferable to me.
Even on classical recordings, the sound is bigger and more compelling on Vinyl than CD. I don't find the clicks or pops really that annoying. It's kind if strange how quite a few people like listening to older forms of music on a newer technology. Kind of seems like a paradox.
Part of the reason for the "warmth" of vinyl is that vinyl amplifies the bass. I know this from experience. I made a comedy record 28 years ago. Before I sent the master tape down to the pressing plant, I listened very carefully for any sound flaws. There was a LOT of tape splicing on this and I wanted to make sure all the splices were clean. THEY were but, there was an almost inaudible P popping at one point. The ONLY way you could hear it on the tape is if you were REALLY listening for it, knew it was there and were paying strict attention to it. I never heard it so, I sent the tape to the pressing plant. A week or 2 later, I got the test pressings and all 3 copies had a fairly loud P popping in the exact same spot! I called up the plant to ask them what that was because it wasn't on the tape! They said, "Yes, it is! Vinyl amplifies the low end." I had no other choice unless I was willing to re-record that spot, re-splice it and re-pay them to make new plates so, I just let it go as is. When I got the tape back, I listened very closely to that spot and, as I've said, that pop IS there but, it's SO INCREDIBLY quiet, it's almost inaudible, UNLESS you're REALLY TRYING to hear it!
I really enjoyed your video and opinions! You're totally right, the music should always come first and then format as a preference. Streaming is often the easiest for me, but given how we're seeing more and more platforms shuffling around with holder rights and music disappearing, I think we should think of physical media as the key option. For some albums, I want a CD, vinyl for others, even tape for a select few. It's all about what makes the most sense for your set-up, your space, your budget, and what you want to get out of the hobby.
I have to say that I do love both formats and still buy and collect both, prime examples of this are my recent purchases of McCartney's One Hand Clapping album which I bought on both formats and Lennon's beautiful Mind Games box and The Double album. I have to say that of the two vinyl is ahead, but that is also from a sentimental aspect as well. That was my first format as a kid in the 70's buying those first records. I, like yourself do like to sit down and immerse myself in a vinyl album. However I have to say that the CD has improved since it inception. For example you listen to a Beatles album on it's first release on CD in '87 to say the ones issued in 2009 and you see a vast improvement in sound, less compression, remember that those original CD's had the crap compressed out of them to enable the album to fit onto the disc which to my mind compromised the sound quality. I have Classical albums that sound infinitely better on CD and ones that sound infinitely better on vinyl. I'm very happy to have both formats, but Vinyl for me is always going to be ahead, my go to format. Guess I'm just of that age.
I like both. My chair is across the room from the turntable, so it's more convenient to just put a disc in and let it play. No having to get up to flip a record.
In fairness to Dave the last so many years of vinyl resurgence is relatively new in his lifetime. 10-12 goes by like nothing when you get past a certain age. Also he lived all the way through the death of vinyl. As did I. It still surprises me that vinyl is so popular and I never fully let go. I well remember Mitch, the owner of Positively Records (RIP), lamenting letting go of vinyl. He couldn't give it away until it started coming back. We'll see how on the ball Michael is when he's Dave's age.
I collect both! And it's personal preference I like having the physical item! Rather than stream! I do buy cds as they are cheaper a lot of the time! But an ongoing debate!
What’s the fuss? Enjoy both. Some albums were never issued on CD. When I entertain in my listening room I alternate as it’s more time consuming to use just vinyl. I have an equal amount of both
I remember when I heard music on 8-tracks. Then cassettes, CD’s, and iPods and iTunes. Even though I have Spotify, I still shop for CD’s. Other than 45’s, I never cared for vinyl.
Thank you for jumping on this band wagon. Great conversation that’s been going on. I like how it’s been connecting folks who come from very different musical places.
I’m no expert but I prefer listening to vinyl. Like you said the equipment is so important on the sound quality. A top end CD setup will obviously sound better than a record played on a suitcase player. And vice versa for a CD. I went to a talk, a number of years ago, with Robert Ludwig. Of course during the Q&A someone asked which is better. Robert smiled broadly and said something to the effect that there is no real debate, digital is so far superior. I guess if you have perfect pitch, like he does and world class playback system he may be right. However with my 75 year old tinnitus ears, I’ll stick with my LP collection.
Your point about cutting digital to vinyl is spot on. I have a bunch of DG releases recorded in "4D Digital" (eg many Horowitz recordings) that sound magical on vinyl.
I’m a new subscriber and I enjoy your content. I live in the Bayou City, Houston Texas and I have been curious to see an album ranking for Dr John. Have you ever listened to Dr John’s catalogue?
If both are recorded, mixed and mastered the same I would choose the CD. Current transports and DAC's have come a long way. I also think that you need to spend a lot more on an analog rig to have equalvant quality in sound. Just my two cents. I have all my vinyl and listen to Cd's mostly with a higher end SACD player that doesn't have the digital harshness but it's dependent on the actual quality of the CD. It's the turntable, arm and cartridge, set up, pops and clicks and then the static, cleaning that adds multiple variables. I don't stream because it doesn't sound as good. Now the cost of vinyl is really expensive in comparison.
Variety is the spice of life! Not gonna make the same mistake again by dumping CDs like I did some vinyl in the 90’s - love CD box sets - love vinyl too - so it’s all love here ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Some really great and accurate vids from you recently Mazzy... very good of you to share your insights - and for being so honest about your experiences over the years. thanks.
The most satisfaction I have gotten in recent years of collecting records (I just started collecting used vinyl since covid plus my original lp collection which I never got rid of) is taking a used record that cost a buck or five, cleaning it both manually and ultrasonically, putting it in a new sleeve, cleaning the cover and putting on an outer sleeve, then kicking back and listening to the lp. Usually it sounds near to great thanks to the cleaning and the original engineering, mastering, musicianship. And now it will stay clean in my collection.
Thankyou Mazzy. Slowly started returning to vinyl in 2013. Mostly all vinyl purchases once again since 2017. First LP purchase was probably at age 11 or 12: Sly and The Family Stone "Stand" first press. I have many CDs and many LPs. I do not have many items in both formats so the two collections really do not overlap. Not quite as many as you, but I am in the ballpark! Sound quality varies. Sometimes CDs sound very good. Sometimes LPs sound very good. I stream music almost every day also. I do not have hi-end streaming equipment so streaming sounds not so good. When I finally succumbed to CDs in the early 1990s, I immediately set to trying to take the edge off digital: TUBES (conrad-johnson mostly). I am more into the music than format or expensive equipment. Sound quality is a plus. And CDs improved sonically. FYI: In general, my LPs are quiet. CDs are quieter, however. I WILL buy a CD if the vinyl COSTS TOO MUCH. The Fire! Orchestra's latest vinyl release price vs. CD price is a prime example. No need for any debate for me. Just spin something....
I'm a huge fan of Hurwitz's channel (about a third of my listening is to classical), as he IS enormously knowledgeable about classical music, highly insightful, with excellent taste IMO in superior renditions of classical repertoire- and he's not pretentious about the genre. That being said, his views on cd vs vinyl are IMO somewhat off; but then again, while I generally prefer vinyl over digital for non-classical genres of music, for classical orchestral music, given the enormous complexity of the music (many more players!) plus the abundance of quieter passages in certain works, I often defer to digital for them. I think that the general quality of vinyl pressings out there, while adequate to showcasevthe strengths of non-classical music on vinyl, can fall short on the low noise floor that's much more important to much of the classical listening experience- plus, the bulk of classical works don't require flipping a disc.
I have a ton of vinyl to get rid of, but don't know how to go about it, and don't have time to do it online. And local used record stores don't travel, and I don't drive.
I am reprinting the comment I made after I watched both videos. Young folk (those under 65 - I am 79) often do not consider mobility issues that can present themselves as they age. As one grows older, it gets much easier to play CDs. I still love vinyl, and the care I took with my collection minimized pops, clicks, and annoying scratches. Sometimes, when I play vinyl, one would think it's digitized because of the lack of surface noise. Anyway, here is the edited comment I left for Dave and Michael, and am now leaving for you: 'Mobility matters, too. I may not be up-to-date on what is out there, but CDs play longer than vinyl without needing to turn or change an LP. Or, gasp, have one vinyl drop on top of another. There are multi-disc CD changers that give listeners hours of music without needing to reload. Like all of you, I prefer to own physical products. With the amount of music DH discusses, I am often inspired to listen to the music of the day if it is in my library or buy it on CD if it's not. CD convenience enables me to listen longer and ensure that I do not have too many opportunities to fall.
Agreed, I'm a diehard jazz vinyl collector but when it comes to classical, its CDs all the way. I spent the weekend listening to Daniel Barenboim's full Beethoven symphony cycle. Such back to back listening sessions would have been marred by the constant interruption involved in listening to vinyl. Also, the lower noise floor of digital is much more apparent when listening to classical.
Presumably the loudness war with its limiting and brickwalling never ruined classical CD's to the extent that it did with rock & pop. But brickwalling is not an inherent feature of digital audio, it was a choice made by labels and mastering engineers.
I have all of my vinyl from the first one I bought, Beatles '65, I traded a few away for other LPs. I haven't had a turntable for awhile. I'm a year older than Mazzy, and have some trouble with my hands. I also like the ability to listen to the whole album without having to flip the record over. That said I bought Neil Young's Barn in a set that included both the CD and the vinyl. I bought the Band On The Run Half-Speed Master last year, and went to a vinyl show ( I'm not sure what they are called) and picked up some albums.
I have thousands of titles on both formats. With that said, I've never once turned my head at my speakers when playing a CD because of the sound. When I play a record I regularly stop what I'm doing and just listen because I can't believe that sound is coming from my modest system. Last night it was U2's The Joshua Tree. Fantastic sounding record.
Fun video mazzy. 👍 You make many salient points. Vinyl has been in my collection since HS. CDs also take up lots of space too 😊. You have a premium system that enhances the vinyl listening experience. That's where that warmth comes from I have no doubt. I recently purchased a quality RTR DAC that sounds so amazing and rivals vinyl playback. There are so many CD box sets that fill in gaps of certain groups and include so much extra live and rare demos too. Greg
Thanks Mazzy. I’m a regular viewer of Hurwitz and Michael and you, so appreciated all three of these videos. But I would argue the vinyl resurgence actually started with classical, through reissues by Chesky, Analogue Productions, and Classic Records, beginning in the 1990s.
My memory of the vinyl resurgence is different from yours. I remember jazz artists being primarily featured in those audiophile LP issues coming from MoFi, Mosaic & Analogue Productions. In fact, Chad Kasem had those 1990s ads in Stereophile, prominently featuring Miles Davis’ Great Prestige Albums & Thelonious Monk’s Riverside Tenor Sessions. There were some classic rock titles, but mainly jazz. Classical had a ways to catch up, when it came to the vinyl reissue market.
@@SamWesting An interesting topic to be sure, and I would never claim to have a highly reliable memory! Per Discogs, Chesky started reissuing Living Stereos (many without the original cover art) in the early 80s. The first APs (early 90s) appear to have been classical, followed quickly by mostly jazz reissues. Classic Records got underway in 1994 and was mostly or exclusively classical. Didn’t check MOFI or Mosaic.
My memories of the vinyl resurgence were probably shaped by Michael Fremer’s write-ups in Stereophile. Think he started there in the mid ‘90s. No doubt he wrote about Classic & Michael Hobson along the way. But his expertise was more in rock & jazz, & that’s probably why I find the jazz reissues more memorable than anything else. I also credit labels like Mosaic for their part in keeping vinyl alive, as they licensed LP versions of so many jazz titles that the majors were only interested in putting out on CDs.
Nicely said Mazzy! I agree with you. I hear a distictive difference between vinyl and cd's, and i prefer Vinyl. But everyone has to buy the format that suits him/ her best, there is no right or wrong, it's all about personal taste.
Hi, Mazzy! First time viewer. I've collected both Records (I hate the term, "Vinyls") & Compact Discs since I was very young (64, now). I even worked in Record stores from 1982-2005, plus bought & sold both formats at record shows for about 15 years. I love the convenience of CD's, but love LP's as well. I really enjoyed your video. I like the way you scurry back & forth between the two rooms. Good thing they are so close. I also wanted to mention about the CD jewel cases: The biggest space-waster are those 2-CD cases! I actually went through most of my double-hinged cases & replaced them with the 2-disc "thin" cases. I DID have to remove the front inserts, but then I replaced them with the booklets. That really helped me a lot with the space issue. I suppose it may hurt the collectible value, but I doubt there's a lot of value to most of those (fairly common) CD's anyway!
Mazzy, I really like your set up for storing lps. Can you share who makes it, and do you know if it is still being made? ....the shelving units that is. Many Thanks, Michel (the ones that are light colored wood, not the white ones)
And the great debate goes on. If I love the music, I start with what format it is available in and go from there. I appreciate the passion of some for one format over the other, but in the end it’s all about fun and the enjoyment we get from music. Whatever format your current rig and budget support and which sounds best to you, that’s the way to go. My two cents worth with devaluation.
Whenever I grow restless or bored listening to music it's invariably via a cd and I tend to start skipping tracks or, for instance, pick up a magazine. Same circumstances but with a vinyl record more often than not I find I can't bear to interrupt playback and have to listen to the end of the side. Perverse thing is, when using headphones, I find the opposite applies as headphones, for me, tend to highlight the inherent problems with vinyl (mainly surface noise and rumble). I wonder if this is partially a function of volume levels as I definitely play headphones much louder than with speakers, mainly out of consideration for my neighbours?
Analogue is almost but not quite...records are usually easier on the ears, ' warmth' is due to the mechanical restrictions imposed in the disc recording and playback process, if you can get up to 16khz plus or minus a db or so on vinyl , you're doing ok. As a disc mastering engineer for 50 years, I don't have a preference, as mentioned at the end of the day, the music is the thing..one isn't better than the other , they just sound different. Vinyl may be a good archival format tho..pvc is pretty stable if stored properly..
I like to digitize my vinyl at 96 kHz - my hi def files by and large sound better than store bought cd’s when a/b’ing the same title. I really don’t think it’s all in my head - the difference to my ears is significant.
It's nice to say "Mazzy loves you" and I wholeheartedly respond with a "Paul loves you". I'm probably a "colder" person than you are, and I prefer CD, and I can't really get used to streaming, much like after 30 years I still can't work direct from the PC screen, I need to print, to underscore, annotate.... But, sometimes, I get the impression (I'm not certain!) that I "hear" the quality of vinyl, yes, that highly touted "warmth". But then...the quietness of CD in near-silent classical passages. I'm not going to make a point of it: I like MUSICKE, and that's the only thing that matters there... Love to America, hope is making a comeback there!
Fun exercise: Listen to mono pink noise from digital vs from vinyl (on a test lp). Imagine a waterfall. You'll get a clear idea of what the difference is and what vinyl does (in your system as it's heavily dependent on your source equipment). Mastering is taken out of the equation. In my system the noise on the lp is smoother, more open, has more depth and is a little broader creating a halo/bloom around instruments.
@@emilspec1227 Yeah, like speakers, microphones, amplifiers, rooms and the whole artificial concept of stereo. If you are a musician and went through the process of recording your instrument and are familiar with live music, you quickly realise there is no such thing as an original sound in your living room.
@@Sonus1002 I'm talking about the sound of the original recording. In the context Dave was talking about and concerning mostly classical music recordings I would say that most of these are very good stereo recordings of the actual performances and you don't want anything to impart additional coloration to it.
@@emilspec1227 It's an illusion that's far away from the original event. Have you been to a world class concert hall sitting 3 meters behind the conductor? It's not comparable in any way. Good vinyl playback adds to that illusion and makes it sound more dimensional. Better speakers do the same, a better room does the same. But again, uncolored recording? You're kidding.
@@Sonus1002 but acording to your original statement CD is closer to the original event as there is no additional coloration due to harmonic distortion vinyl imparts to it.
I’ve bought a lot of vinyl over the last 5-7 years and am increasingly disappointed in the quality of the pressings. I ordered a Blue Note album (Blue Hour by Stanley Turrentine) that had some kind of weird ripple pressed into it that made my tone arm bounce. It wasn’t warped. This flaw was pressed into the record. I returned it and against my better judgement asked them to replace it. When I finally got the replacement, it had the same flaw. I’ve had other issues with quality as well so I’ve decided to limit my purchases of new vinyl. I’ll hunt for used when I’m in the mood, but I have really come to appreciate streaming. Most everything on my streaming service is at least 16 bit 44.1khz (cd quality) and some of it is higher resolution. If I’m honest with myself, I’m not 16 and I don’t listen to albums over and over again. I might listen to an album a handful of times over a few weeks but I move on to the next one. I don’t need to keep accumulating all this stuff. Streamed music can sound excellent if you get a good DAC and good speakers or headphones. If I A/B’ed it would I prefer the vinyl? Probably, but I don’t listen to music that way. I don’t look for reasons not to be happy with what I’m hearing.
I’m of your generation and I too went through the dreaded purge in the late eighties and like you I got most of them back. I still buy new vinyl releases as well as second hand stuff. But the second hand stuff is always a gamble. So nowadays my music pursuit has swung in the direction of CDs. One huge reason being that I’m finding them for A BUCK at local fleas. And my truck has a CD player! I pick up some stuff I never had before and pop em in the ol’ Tacoma and they sound P E R F E C T. Of course, some don’t, but it’s more the original mastering issue. I recently scored a bunch of early Elton John CDs (remastered version) and they sound incredible!!!! And there is so much jazz out there that was prohibitively priced back then. Now I’m picking up Bill Evans box sets for minuscule amounts. I got the complete Miles at the Blackhawk for like twenty bucks. And all that Riverside and Impulse stuff. PENNIES! I’m a happy person, Mazzy, because……it’s about the music stupid.
For classical music, cds definitely obviates the need to adjust the volume when the dynamics change, as they really do much more in classical music. At least I remember- and my equipment was run-of-the-mill- what a drag it was having to change the volume. I mean, sometimes the music became inaudible.
In my case, after decades without vinyl in my life, I have returned to them. Somehow I knew I would because I never sold or gave away my records. Not going to get technical here, for me is about legacy. Being able to listen to old recordings the way there were mastered, remixed and released. With the track order decided by the artist(s). It's a multi sensorial experience. And yes, it terms of artwork or liner notes, when you reach certain age... size matters.I normally listen to film scores, so it's great to grab a 1960s first pressing and travel back in time. I also have hundreds of cd's I listen to on a regular basis. Never buy new stuff on vinyl though. IMHO, it doesn't make sense. I see it as a trap record labels want you to fall into. And the prizes are insane. Summing it up, for me is vinyl for most recordings from the 50s up to mid 80s. CD from then on. It's all about the music!!
I have no problem with people having preferences. Personally I enjoy both CD & vinyl and have a good enough system to be able to enjoy the two formats to the full. The thing that irks me somewhat is the constant peddling of ‘the warmth of vinyl’ & ‘the glassy sound of CD’. It’s nonsense it is not at all an accurate description. Like I said I enjoy both formats and have a good system, but I can 100% admit that this romanticising of vinyl and trashing of digital is BS.
I don't listen to CDs as I no longer have a CD player nor do I have a turntable. I do have a top of the range Bose 360 with a paid Spotify subscription. It does the job for me. Usually I'm listening when doing other things but I now can accept any sort of classical music. The times I sit up and listen tend to be Classical recordings that are reference recordings and you can never know why it is exactly. Klemperer's Brahms symphonies, Cluytens Faure's Requiem or Bernstein's Haydn Symphonies.
I'm now very invested in vinyl (both financially and emotionally), but I still have hundreds of CDs and won't part with them. Of course it doesn't have to be one or the other. For classical music I can definitely see the advantage of the CD, especially when the music is a long Bruckner or Mahler symphony with movements that last 30 minutes - on vinyl, that's gonna have to be split over two sides. Same with some jazz, like some of Cecil Taylor's hour-long pieces or Ornette Coleman's 'Free Jazz': for the latter, on CD you can listen to the official take AND the alternate take on one uninterrupted disc. But those are exceptions. When a vinyl record is mastered and cut well - especially, say, a modern one done by Kevin Gray or Ryan K. Smith or Bernie Grundman - it blows a CD version out of the water. It's not about "warmth," unless by that you mean soundstage, the separation of the instruments and the physicality of them (especially when they're acoustic instruments).
Hi Mazzy, I recently picked up a 50th anniversary Blu-ray edition of Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon'. I know people will groan about yet another version of this album but I have to say this blu-ray edition sounds better than any other digital version I've heard. It sounds fantastic and I can inhabit and immerse myself in the music despite its non-analogue nature! Hope the London trip goes well and you can incorporate the trip into upcoming videos.
When I'm worried that the size of my record collection (about 2,200 LPs, over 3,000 CDs, plus numerous 45s and cassettes) is the sign of a sick obsession, I like to get a glimpse of Mazzy's collection...holy cow!
I was a teenager in the 90's so started out buying cds. I don't have the money to replace my collection on vinyl and don;t have the space for two collections. I was also listening to my dad's LPs in those days and he still has good few which I'll listen to on occasion when I'm at his house. It's a great format but I'm sticking with cds. On the packaging thing, I agree. It would have been better if they had started in thinner, card sleeves (Not those ultra thin ones; I hate those).
Hello from 🇬🇧 Great video Mazzy. By the way,do you own any mini discs ? I collect CDs rather than vinyl, because It's cheaper plus I don't have the room to store them.
There is a difference between vinyl and cds when I play them on my system at home. The CDs are more 'metal' (or is it plastic) sounding. LPs are quieter, fuller sounding. However, a collection of several thousand records is not for everybody. 8,000 tracks on iTunes? Piece of cake. Of course, the history of the Album Era is also the story of the digital technology being born. No LPs, I would think, not so much development, not as quickly, for the computer industry. Not sure if that's true. But that's how I feel about it as an old audiophile and computer user. The iPhone is the iPod with a phone chip added, and the iPod is the Walkman without the cassette tape. Kids listen to their MP3 today as much as I did my records and (in the car) tapes. You have a point that the right way to merchandise outtakes is on video (Beatles Get Back) or a promo box with hundreds of tracks and studio outtakes. However, I still rip the CDs into my computer and listen there. "Its the Music Stupid"... fortunately, fingers crossed, it will still be the music 50 years from now. Finally, of course the art work counts! I have a special set of LPs that are together simply because the covers are great (as it happens, so is the music inside).
I was diehard vinyl up until about a year ago, but I'm happy to say that that is no longer the case. After discovering the following three products and adding them to my system, I can now say with full confidence that these three have drastically improved the sound of the cd, to my ears anyway, by removing almost all of the hardness and dryness that seemed so characteristic of the mediium. In its place, I now hear the sound of real music: warm, rich, and most importantly, tonally correct: meaning vocals sound like real people singing with true emotion and sounding more like their true selves vocally, and musical instruments, be they acoustic or electric, whose sonic character shines through with every pluck of the cello, or every downstroke of the electric guitar!!...But enough rambling!! Give these three products a try then listen for yourself, and you decide. (1) CD cleaner spray by The LAST Factory/LIVERMORE, CA (2) RD-2 Disc Demagnetizer by ACOUSTIC REVIVE and finally, (3) Virtuoso Black CD Mat by MARIGO AUDIO Lab message is for all in the vinyl community who desire one thing: to have your system sound its very best on all recorded music: be it analog or digital.
when we planned the furniture for our previous flat, it was clear that we only wanted LPs in our living room, where our main HiFi system was. So I ripped my 3000+ CDs, hid them in the study and listened to the content via high-quality streaming. After 18 years and moving houses again, it is still the same - vinyls are closer to me, physically and emotionally, in the living room. The CDs, which I all kept, are hidden away in a separate music room. Streaming is practical when you cannot focus on the music that much, i.e. when you are busy in the house, have guestes, etc. When we are on our own, we prefer listening to LPs. And I don't dare to discuss if digital or analogue is better. My ears are only accepting analogue signals anyway.
I agree with your take on CD packaging 💯. My preferred format is the CD but I can spend days on end listening to vinyl and on occasion I'll break out the few cassettes that I have clung onto throughout the years. 🎼💿🎸😎
I love vinyl above all other formats. I listen to a good amount of classical. CD's are good in that a long movement of a symphony isn't interrupted in the middle by having to turn over a record. That said, CD's can sound harsh in the high mid-range.That's really noticeable in piano and choral music. The problem seems to be solved with SACDs. I'm fortunate to own a Cambridge Audio disc player that plays SACD's. Acoustic Sounds sells a fair amount of them, and for some classical labels it's the default.
I saw the video. I found it very interesting but I don't take sides. I have a vinyl collection and a CD collection but I just don't have time to listen, though I just bought a Mary Gauthier CD. Reading takes up all my time. But I do listen to satellite radio and every week I'm introduced to new artists on Outlaw Country. I find it a useful resource. However, I have to say that reading Seneca's letters on ethics satisfies me more thoroughly than putting on an album.
I too am a member of the senior citizens music collectors. My collection is 90% of albums in Flac files on my hard drives and the rest is CD's. I have been there and done that with vinyl and I'm not going back. I recently had a song played back for me from a Reel to Reel, CD, Dat Tape and Flac file and was asked which sound best. I choose the Dat Tape, so I guess at this age can I really tell the difference? I just want quality music no matter where it comes from.
I suspect Dave Hurwitz doesn't have a large rock or jazz collection. He's talking, purely, from a classical viewpoint. I agree with him re classical recordings. I have 78 albums (that's where the term comes from) of large scale classical works taking up multiple discs. The listener had to turn the record over every 4 minutes. From 1950 you had to turn the record over every 20 minutes. Finally, from the mid 80s, you could listen to Beethoven's 9th without having to move from your chair with the bonus of no surface noise & scratches or deterioration from multiple plays. Rock & Jazz are different beasts entirely. Shorter tracks, most modern releases still fit on a standard LP. Each to their own & I'm delighted (and amazed) that records are still with us. I've been buying music for close to 60 years. While I never stopped collecting records, I buy new recordings on CD while scouring shops for second hand black stuff.
I think the optical disc is the greatest format ever invented for listening to music. No ticks, pops, inner-groove distortion, dish warping, no pearling, no spending $2000 on a phono pre just to get a silent background, etc. It's a lot more hassle to listen to vinyl. With a cd, you just hit play and it just plays. It'll sound the same the day you bought it, or 25 years later, without cleaning. But at the end of the day, cd's can sound amazing and so can a vinyl record.
I just wish they didn't compress the signal to hell and back for CD. It is sad this is the norm, unless it's classical music. I want the wider dynamic range that the CD offers. There are lps that have greater dynamic range than the CD counterpart. We have a volume knob if we want it louder. FYI - I like both formats. As respects re-releasing classical music on lp, that was going on in the mid 90's with the Classic Records RCA reissues.
I speak for Jazz only, most of the Jazz CD´s I have are unlistenable, awful sound, if you like this you don't know how amazing vinyl sounds. Yes more work to do, but worth it. But as I said, Jazz only from my experience at least.
@@vinylrules4838 Yes. I agree with you. But that's not the cd's fault. It drives me crazy the way music has been mastered on cd's for the last 25 years.
@@mymixture965 I don't listen to jazz, so I'll have to take your word for it. But bad mastering has nothing to do with the cd format. Also I do know how good vinyl can sound. It just a lot more hassle to get there than a good sounding cd. Turntable, tonearm, cartridge, then aligning, what phone pre amp you use. And let's not get into mono lp's and switching out the cartridge for a mono cartridge. I'd rather just hit play. Just my opinion though.
It was a "rushed" invention! Even Bernie grundman told Sony that he thought it was a good idea, but he didn't think they were done! He told them they could do much better, and he was right! In their hast to rush it out to the public, Sony wouldn't even speak to him after that! It was a bad rushed invention that doesn't come close to LPs! Saying that I don't have a problem with them, I play them sometimes! But there's much better definition audio out there on streaming platforms like "Quobuz" and "Tidal" that blows Redbook 44.1k/16 bit away!
CDs all the way for me. Yeah, I hear the difference and for me, CD is the superior sound.
I totally agree with u…I haven’t bought vinyl since ‘82 wen I 1st heard cd’s & have never looked back..I’m still using my cd player from ‘82 which at the time cost me $999.99
The dynamic range ,signal to noise and a lot more A well-mastered CD is almost as great as the studio master
I guess your cartridge was not very good. Tangible high quality magnetic technology with a consistent wave of sound is always going to beat speculative digits on a computer.
@@CuriousEnthusiast956 Vinyl masters have to be specially mixed and a lot of compromises are taken into account, all the bass has to be centered and limiters are used to restrict the dynamic range to stop the needle from jumping off the record, plus vinyl has about 60dB noise floor, not superior to digital at all.
@nicksterj Standard cds are Not High Res Files. The digital format or Quality you mention, is Not what’s most Widely available to the public in the physical format. Standard cds are crap
The music matters, and sometimes when titles are not available on Vinyl it's great to have it on CD or vice versa,. There is no wrong as long as it's physical media ;)
you're a genius
I love music and listen to it on whatever medium I can get it on
It is called RECORDS …. More records were made out of shellac than vinyl so shut the hell up with using the word vinyl to describe phonograph records
@@Lilian-cs6on hey Einstein for someone who is trying to come off as an expert behind your empty profile you sure have no idea how to use the reply button on a post as you replied to my comment that doesnt even mention the word vinyl. GFYS
@@JadeStarr anyone who uses the word vinyl to describe a phonograph record needs to be sent to a reeducation camp for one year. Write your congressman today to pass the “Just say no to vinyl” act
Free Lobotomies for repeat offenders
@@Lilian-cs6on 78's were made from shellac, albums are made from Polyvinyl Chloride and the Polyvinyl Acetate hence they are called Vinyl so before you start spouting do some research
I have been following David Hurwitz for some years now and he has taught me a lot about classical music. I am also his same age (younger Boomer or liminal Gen Xer), so I went throught my youth collecting records and then sold them all in the 80s because I needed to eat. I was then all in on CD for 35 years and have an enormous CD collection, mostly jazz, but choice classical and rock items, too. I think that a preference for CD makes perfect sense for a classical collector because the clear dry sound really serves orchestral music, and there are masses of great recordings from the 1950s, 60s and 70s that have been rescued from obscurity by the CD and improved in many cases from poor original pressings. There are now so many great operas as well as collections of works by a single conductor that would never have been available again on vinyl and are only possible on CD. That said, I finally bought a turntable last year and got back into the vinyl thing. The turntable is only a $300 job, mid-fi at best, yet I agree with you completely. A new jazz or rock reissue mastered by a Bernie Grundman, for instance, sounds better on vinyl. It's a vibrational thing. The acoustic and analogue signal path reaches your speakers and you simply hear more overtones and detail in the music. Strings, snare drums, cymbals, an overblown sax, all have a kind of thing that hangs in the air and touches you. Some of my jazz CDs, e.g., the great OJC series of the 1980s and 90s, still sound spectacular, and it's not worth buying an expensive $40 vinyl reissue to get only marginal improvement. But if cost were no object and I could choose which one to own and listen to, I'd almost always opt for the vinyl. The rare exception would be cases in which the original tape has audibly degraded, such as Kevin Gray's woeful master of Sonny Rollins' Newk's Time. In the end, we live in the real world and cost is an object, and the fact is that I acquired most of my OJCs for an average of $8 a piece on the used market. Vinyl still can't compete with that. I would recommend anyone thinking about getting into vinyl to consider how deep their pockets are because it is too easy to drop $200 in a record store and run your credit cards up, as I have done the past year. I wish I had stuck to CD collecting and never eaten of the Tree of Knowledge which is vinyl. I know how good it can sound yet now deny myself new records all the time. David Hurwitz is a wise old cat.
As a Classical music newbie, I love David's channel. 👍
I'm just a few years younger than him, and have learned a lot from him and gotten many wonderful recording recommendations as well. That being said, for non-classical music- and classical music on the best-quality vinyl- I prefer the vinyl playback sound given the greater sense of 'depth of field' from it vs digital playback, plus certain timbral advantages from vinyl sound, plus more subtle dynamics and the like.
Technically speaking, CD technology is far superior to vinyl. It's not the same mastering process, and that's where we should be looking for the differences in sound quality. I wouldn't even be surprised if digital was 'sabotaged' to give vinyl a slight advantage, in order to exploit audiophiles even more. Something to think about...
I love David Hurwitz, I've been watching his videos for a couple of years. I like his no nonsense approach to criticism. You get his views, and I see no reason to question his perspective as I'm there to hear Mr Hurwitz spout his thoughts.
See you on Saturday 👍
Thank you for taking the time for such a thoughtful and sincere presentation.
I love both formats. I play CD's when I'm doing things around the house. I play Vinyl when I want to listen "Seriously" sitting in the sweet spot and just listen to the music.
precisely
Agreed
2
Same.
I also love and have both formats but I also play a CD when I listen seriously, sitting in the sweet spot and just listen to the music. I don't get why a format would make any difference.
I prefer vinyl. A lot of the albums I have are cd only. It comes down to music or no music. As you say Mazzy, it's all about the music.
With vinyl it is not all about the music. It is about the addition of needle-in-groove distortion -- and if you go entirely "retro" to tube reproduction you add additional distortion.
@@jnagarya519 It is NOT all about distortion! Most ridiculous comment on here
@@thomaslytle5519 it remains the REALITY that vinyl ADDS DISTORTION, which adds artifacts to the music that isn't the music. Bullshit about it all you want, that is the REALITY.
CDs are distortion free -- get used to it.
You’re right jewel cases are too thick,it’s just when you buy secondhand you’re stuck with sleeve you get if it’s card.
Great channel
Hi Mazzy, I've more or less run out of space for my CD's so have taken the radical course of action of ditching jewel cases for sleeves. The ratio is about 4:1, so a lot of albums have come out of storage boxes. One drawback of UK house is that they are a lot smaller than ones Stateside, unless you have a big wallet. So space is often at a premium.
Something I never see anybody say: it depends on which pressing was done better -- sometimes it's CD, sometimes it's vinyl. They are mastered differently so one will usually sound better.
yes! - take Christopher Cross - self titled - much better on LP than CD. Whereas Belinda Carlisle self titled better on the CD version. Its the mastering not the medium
@@dxer22000 A much better question would be something like: Under what circumstances does vinyl sounds better than CD and vice versa? I generally prefer vinyl for music created before 1980. The 80s had plenty of good-sounding albums for vinyl and CD. But, like you said, it just depends. The question of "which sounds better" gets clicks but it's not all that useful. You gave specific examples and one came to my mind: I love the sound of ELO - Discovery on vinyl (mastered by Stan Ricker). I got the consensus best-sounding CD pressing (also mastered by Stan Ricker) and it's completely flat compared to the vinyl. I was really disappointed.
@nicksterj but the vinyl was done before dolby was added hence the better sound than the CD
@nicksterjnot if you take your digital capture after the dolby was added. All copies after the dolby was added will be muffled & dull
Good reaction and some great points after Dave's initial posting here too. I'm a librarian and love books, but the times for public libraries are really difficult now because in general the public out there doesn't put any value on collecting nor collections of fixed objects any more
I sold my classical LP's 38 years ago and never looked back. I listen 99% of the time to classical piano music. I do not miss the pop's and tick's etc. The issue with CD's is Delta Sigma vs. R2R. For me R2R is superior to DS. My son has 1200 lp's and loves vinyl - more power to him. The other issue is the limited availability of classical vinyl. The greatest classical pianists are not available on vinyl. Very nice video.
I was going to respond with exactly the same points you have said. When I tried an R2R DAC I heard a significant difference compared with Delta Sigma DAC’s. The heart and soul and emotion of the music was back, and without the hassle of Vinyl. For me the difference between Sigma Delta and R2R was as significant as between CD’s and Vinyl. The other problem with Vinyl for classical music is the availability. A tiny percentage of classical music recorded in the last 40 years is available on Vinyl. Actually most of the new reissues on Vinyl are old analog recordings. Vinyl is a complete no go for classical music for the great majority of people.
I also have RTR but also enjoy CD's and Records. Love my Pioneer 707 and my Technics 1500US RTR
@@SDsailor7 I believe you are talking about reel to reel. . That is not what this is about. R2R is a type of DAC for digital playback.
I use to split my time between cds and vinyl. But lately it’s been the reverse. I don’t play cds as much as i do vinyl. I don’t hunt as much for cds as i do vinyl. I just like the sound and the tactile aesthetic of vinyl.
It is called RECORDS …. More records were made out of shellac than vinyl so shut the hell up with using the word vinyl to describe phonograph records
I don’t have a vinyl system anymore, can’t afford what I would like ideally for them, and the cost of vintage or reissued records. I reminisce about my 1000s collection that I sold off many many years ago when I moved and no longer had the space or could move them (again and again). I can’t compare the sound because of this, but… The one thing I can say about the listening experience was the ‘process.’ Picking an album out off the shelf, handling the record out of the sleeve and placing on the turntable, moving the arm over and hearing those few seconds of crackle, and the 2-sides of the performance (planned my multi-album listening experience by ‘sides’). I got use to the few pops now and then, and those then and now [as I remember them still] just added an organic real physical feel. Not sure I remember you saying another very real element to a vinyl album are those beautiful big album covers/sleeves [sometimes the additional posters/etc.] The ART work, that so much time and energy was put into.
I agree vinyl seems warmer Maz but here’s the thing….it’s all in your mind: like me (I’m 76) you’ve grown up on vinyl; your subconscious is re-acting to the deeper memories associated with the pleasure, the warmth, all the things that records signify for you. People say that vinyl is warm and cd’s are cold…it’s really because your vinyl memories are older and richer than cd’s.
I prefer cd’s even though I have a massive 1960/1970’s collection of LP’s simply because I don’t have to get up and turn the LP over!
All my old friends, many of whom are in the next world now and whom I am looking forward to seeing again soon :-), are hovering in those LP’s but I can’t help but love to hear the whole album at one go….and what makes me convinced it’s just the subconscious associations that are making you feel that somehow it’s warmer with vinyl is because I have intellectually taught myself to ignore that.
So there’s my input….and here’s the great thing to look forward to….music in the next world is even better than the music here ok! John Lennon is still writing songs, Mozart is still composing, Johan Sebastian is still colossal on the organ :-)
Music is a part of our lives wherever we are
Peace and love
Tony
I've heard people who have had NDE's say that music is still a thing "over there!" Here on earth, a "warm" sounding CD or streaming system is easy to achieve if that's what you seek.
More distorted is warmer 😅
@tonyaustin4472 What about all the people that get into Vinyl for the first time with a good setup and do find the sound to be more warmer and organic? I think you're trying way too hard to simplify and generalize the arguments.
@@CuriousEnthusiast956 I get your point….but like Mazzy says, it’s our viewpoint that inputs into what we think and the judgements we make. Is someone new to vinyl reacting to the difference in the size and feel of the LP compared with the CD? ….is it the subconscious lining up with comments seen and heard from others? We are all influenced subliminally by a host of barely perceived exposures and variables. I agree with Mazzy; go with what you feel :-)
Both formats are awesome. I’m doing CDs right now because they are cheaper and more convenient. With the right mastering, CDs can sound really warm (e.g. Chet Baker Sings - very warm!). I have young children, and CD players are more robust than turntables - which helps when kids are running around the place!
There are some albums i dont own on vinyl because i dont love them. but i have them on CD in case i ever feel the need to check it out. Thats all my CD player is for. Its for albums or live concerts that i dont have on vinyl.
Analogue vinyl for sound quality. CD's for convenience. 👍
Well, in my opinion Hardware plays an important role on (quality) listening and enjoyment CD Players, differences among good and high end players i not something to call home, the output signal suffer less, is easier to design and build than the phono one
Now lets go into vinyl. The record players of today are not as good as those from yesterday, yes some brands keep building comparable players of the past. But more, more expensiive or affordable. Do averagevinyl fans do,most of then have these?
And the main actor is :the CARTRIDGE, the current selection is far from wide, even brands and models offerings are ridiculos with those from the 70's. I loved the (japanese speciality) Moving coils (MC), over the common moving magnet (MM) ones. Today there is any Mc? hardly. Do amplifiers have MC inputs? no that I know.
MCs sound was highly pleased from audiophiles despite their excesive price difference. And needles? Diamonds that no last forever (one, two, five thousand hours? Needles read, follow the groove irregularities (the pressing differences) and wear the record surface and life.
Do you have a (very) good turntable and cartridge? A good phono section in your amplifier? And a good pressing?
O.K. let's compare then seriouly, without bias or expectations. Otherwise.....
@@kruger28007
Technics 1200, Origin Live arm, Goldring 1042 cart
Graham Slee Accession phono stage + Enigma 1 power supply
Hahaha
Objectively not true. Noise floor and dynamic range are measurably better for CD than any vinyl record.
@@dizwell Analogue recordings, such as those on vinyl records or magnetic tape, capture sound in a continuous wave, which is a more direct representation of the original audio signal. This continuous waveform is often cited as being more natural and closer to the original sound than the ‘stair-stepped’ approximation created by digital sampling.
I like both CDs and records. Records are from my childhood, CDs came out when I was a teenager. I still have my CDs from the late 80s and 90s. I view my collection as a Time-line of my musical journey.
I love them both. In addition, CDs are portable. I can listen to them in the car.
they don’t work on turntables tho
@@Pluralofvinylisvinylsohhh! That’s why they won’t play on my turntable when I hook it up to my car! Thank you. Won’t be doing that again anytime soon!
@@RabbiSteve1 circuit city sells adapters
Mazzy, I pretty much agree with everything you said. (I'm old also) If I want background music while I'm piddling around the house, CDs or streaming are acceptable. If I want to relax and LISTEN to good or great music, I'll put on an (analog) LP, and sit for awhile. I think in many of these vinyl vs. CD discussions, it's important to mention that MOST of the Vinyl LPs made in the last 45 years (since about 1980ish) are digitally mastered or remastered, so it makes little difference if you play one of them or a CD. Yet I understand that some vinyl/digital cuts are made from higher resolution digital files than used on the CD, so in this case the Vinyl might sound better than the CD.
Two thoughts: I like vinyl because I have a passion for it from the hunt; digging through bins and dusty attics to placing the stylus on the vinyl and hearing nuances I only hear on vinyl.
Streaming: great as background music
CDs: Clear listening experience to enjoy the music
Vinyl: An intentional listening & tactical experience where the music enters my mind and offers a creative experience to “see” the music in my mind.
Here in Sweden it is all about streaming and vinyl. I like Cd:s best though :). I am 51 so I remember both the vinyl era and cd era. Your collection is impressive.
I was working a graphic designer in the 90s primarily creating cd packaging. One of the reasons consistently argued for jewel cases were to provide a spine large enough for radio DJs to read the artists and title when the CD was on the shelf. Supposedly this would help the music to get more plays.
Interesting, I wondered why they are thicker than they need to be.
I'm 63 and started my collection aged 12 in 1973. Vinyl was the thing- cassettes were convenient for listening on the go and for mix tapes for parties. I never bought any pre recorded tapes.
When CDs came along I fully embraced the format- convenience, easier to store, no warping, no cleaning and no surface noise.
I embraced mini disc which was another terrific format- the first where you didn't have to record in real time- the convenience and sound quality was a clear winner over cassette tape.
I embraced MP3s and the I-pod- another revolutionary paradigm shift.
SACD, HDCD, UHQCD, 24 Bit remasters etc all provided excellent sound reproduction.
Of course the music is far more important than the format at the end of the day.
Like many people I live happily in a multi format environment. It's horses for courses. I stream in the car
I listen to vinyl occasionally from my large collection that I never sold off.
I mainly listen to my large collection of digital discs because its so much easier- the relationship is vastly different from streaming where I tend to jump around all over the place.
You pays your money you takes your choice.
I'm tired of the binary choice and the ridiculous nonsense of having to chose a side at the exclusion of all else. Just enjoy the music.
I’ve only just started buying vinyls, but I’m definitely becoming invested! That being said I’m still buying cds as well, because Gorillaz sounds great now matter which format you go with! I am however starting to really love the more personal almost intimate aspect of listening to vinyl (even as much of a hassle as it to get up in the middle of the record to flip the b-side). It makes me feel like I’m interacting with the music itself! I love cds however because of the fact that you can just pop it in and listen without having to stream it on the internet thus allowing me to unplug from the matrix so to speak.
In short I kinda love both formats for different reasons, and to buy both in the future going forward
I recently came across a 24 box “The greatest Jazz recordings of All Time" collection put out by franklin mInt and curated by the Institute for Jazz Studies at Rutgers University. The quality of the packaging including booklets of extensive commentaries by all manner of writers and academics is superb. This came out forty years ago - 100 cassettes of superbly curated masterpieces from the earliest recordings to the 1980s. 150 hours of jazz for Twenty quid - about 30 dollars…Of course I bought it. Then I bought a classic pioneer cassette player…and guess what ? it sounds terrific….so many of these recordings I had never heard - and I have a large jazz collection on cd and vinyl….it is, after all, the journey, not the car….vive la difference - in all things, not just music...
I appreciate the fact that during the filming of this video you keep walking from the vinyl room to the CD room and back. Your collection is impressive, not to mention all the box sets. By the way, I am a CD guy, but I can accept the fact that there is more magic to the sound of vinyl, because it doesn't make my listening to CD-s less enjoyable. I am just content with what I have...
@@AlexanderG-mi7ip that’s all that really matters
I agree on the music first. The biggest issue for me is that fringe classical (HIPP Baroque, weird strings such as viola d'amore, viola da gamba, baryton, tromba marina) is not available on vinyl. Fringe contemporary pop/rock is available in small editions on vinyl. The interpretations of early classical music (baroque, renaissance, medieval) is so much different from even 20-30 years ago, so just getting old vinyl is positively not workable. I'd much prefer good fringe classical music on vinyl.
Great job on this Mazzy. Every point you made was well put. This reminds me of why you’re one of the best in the VC. ✌️
I appreciate that!✌🏼
Hi Mazzy,
Many people have gone back to LPs for a reason and that is the feeling you get both in sound and in the actions you have to take.
From about 1986, I only bought cds with one or two exceptions.
Then in November 2012 (which was when the Beatles Box set came out on elpee) I started collecting records again in addition to cds.
When I had just bought the Beatles Box set I was worried for a moment that the records might not sound good, but I was completely wrong they sounded and still sound fantastic I was brainwashed by the record industry and that has lasted for 26 years.
My preference now is for LPs, this still gives the sound I'm going for.
Best regards from the Netherlands
A CD jewel case is twice as thick as an LP. But an LP is at least twice the height. So figure out the shelving.
Also a double gatefold LP is thicker than a jewel case and modern CDs come in slim digipacks now anyway. Like you say take into account the height and depth of shelving an LP vs a CD. CDs definitely don’t require as much space to store.
@@michaelb9664 It is a way comes out even: two CDs is about the height of one LP. But an LP is about twice the thickness of a (jewel case) CD.
Some of the cheaper digipack CDs don't have a spine, so that is a problem with on-shelf cataloging.
The one thing LPs have is one aspect of their size: the covers were traditionally designed for a twelve inch square; and the text was readable without a microscope (or a telescope for the farsighted).
That's where the comparisons end: the sound of CDs is superior because it omits the distortions added by playback equipment. And the Jackson "deconstruction" system has added possibilities of recordings with all tape hiss eliminated.
I grew up from earliest memories with recordings and record players in the house -- and the first were 78s. 99.99 per cent of those were lacquer; when dropped they shattered. Then my sister began buying the relatively new format 45s, which were vinyl, in circa 1958. And I began buying vinyl in 1963 -- have a ton of it occupying space which could be better purposed.
@@michaelb9664 And vinyl is very heavy. Pick up a dozen as a batch -- if you dare.
I never converted to CD as, from the outset in the mid 1980s, I found the format tiring to listen to. I concede that on classical recordings the absolute silence of CD is preferable over the odd frustrating click or pop but for my listening of blues/rock/pop the whole vinyl experience from the tactility to the sound is preferable to me.
Even on classical recordings, the sound is bigger and more compelling on Vinyl than CD. I don't find the clicks or pops really that annoying. It's kind if strange how quite a few people like listening to older forms of music on a newer technology. Kind of seems like a paradox.
Part of the reason for the "warmth" of vinyl is that vinyl amplifies the bass. I know this from experience. I made a comedy record 28 years ago. Before I sent the master tape down to the pressing plant, I listened very carefully for any sound flaws. There was a LOT of tape splicing on this and I wanted to make sure all the splices were clean. THEY were but, there was an almost inaudible P popping at one point. The ONLY way you could hear it on the tape is if you were REALLY listening for it, knew it was there and were paying strict attention to it. I never heard it so, I sent the tape to the pressing plant. A week or 2 later, I got the test pressings and all 3 copies had a fairly loud P popping in the exact same spot! I called up the plant to ask them what that was because it wasn't on the tape! They said, "Yes, it is! Vinyl amplifies the low end." I had no other choice unless I was willing to re-record that spot, re-splice it and re-pay them to make new plates so, I just let it go as is. When I got the tape back, I listened very closely to that spot and, as I've said, that pop IS there but, it's SO INCREDIBLY quiet, it's almost inaudible, UNLESS you're REALLY TRYING to hear it!
I really enjoyed your video and opinions! You're totally right, the music should always come first and then format as a preference. Streaming is often the easiest for me, but given how we're seeing more and more platforms shuffling around with holder rights and music disappearing, I think we should think of physical media as the key option. For some albums, I want a CD, vinyl for others, even tape for a select few. It's all about what makes the most sense for your set-up, your space, your budget, and what you want to get out of the hobby.
Most people don't have massive collections so the space issue is not an issue except for people who collect.
I have to say that I do love both formats and still buy and collect both, prime examples of this are my recent purchases of McCartney's One Hand Clapping album which I bought on both formats and Lennon's beautiful Mind Games box and The Double album. I have to say that of the two vinyl is ahead, but that is also from a sentimental aspect as well. That was my first format as a kid in the 70's buying those first records. I, like yourself do like to sit down and immerse myself in a vinyl album. However I have to say that the CD has improved since it inception. For example you listen to a Beatles album on it's first release on CD in '87 to say the ones issued in 2009 and you see a vast improvement in sound, less compression, remember that those original CD's had the crap compressed out of them to enable the album to fit onto the disc which to my mind compromised the sound quality. I have Classical albums that sound infinitely better on CD and ones that sound infinitely better on vinyl. I'm very happy to have both formats, but Vinyl for me is always going to be ahead, my go to format. Guess I'm just of that age.
I like both. My chair is across the room from the turntable, so it's more convenient to just put a disc in and let it play. No having to get up to flip a record.
In fairness to Dave the last so many years of vinyl resurgence is relatively new in his lifetime. 10-12 goes by like nothing when you get past a certain age. Also he lived all the way through the death of vinyl. As did I. It still surprises me that vinyl is so popular and I never fully let go. I well remember Mitch, the owner of Positively Records (RIP), lamenting letting go of vinyl. He couldn't give it away until it started coming back. We'll see how on the ball Michael is when he's Dave's age.
Classical music vinyl resurgence is almost nonexistent, very very niche and only a very recent thing.
@@emilspec1227 Yeh, without asking for it I won't be seeing any of the classical reprints at my shops anytime soon.
@@damianp564 You can always find it at the thrift shops in very good condition.
I collect both! And it's personal preference I like having the physical item! Rather than stream! I do buy cds as they are cheaper a lot of the time! But an ongoing debate!
What’s the fuss? Enjoy both. Some albums were never issued on CD. When I entertain in my listening room I alternate as it’s more time consuming to use just vinyl. I have an equal amount of both
I am 41 and I just started collecting cds. Is about what brings you joy, to me was returing to when I was a teenager and loved my cds.
Don’t forget Maz if damaged you can easily replace the CD jewel case
@@jonmills9592 yup. But they are too thick.
I remember when I heard music on 8-tracks. Then cassettes, CD’s, and iPods and iTunes. Even though I have Spotify, I still shop for CD’s. Other than 45’s, I never cared for vinyl.
Thank you for jumping on this band wagon. Great conversation that’s been going on. I like how it’s been connecting folks who come from very different musical places.
Absolutely ✌🏼
I just love both, CD and vinyl. Thanks for discussing this Massi! BR from Munich
Next video: are hats better than bandanas? [Mazzy, nice hat collection!]
Ha. Funny. 🤠
@@mazzysmusic Good. I am focusing more on joy these days! 😉
I’m no expert but I prefer listening to vinyl. Like you said the equipment is so important on the sound quality. A top end CD setup will obviously sound better than a record played on a suitcase player. And vice versa for a CD. I went to a talk, a number of years ago, with Robert Ludwig. Of course during the Q&A someone asked which is better. Robert smiled broadly and said something to the effect that there is no real debate, digital is so far superior. I guess if you have perfect pitch, like he does and world class playback system he may be right. However with my 75 year old tinnitus ears, I’ll stick with my LP collection.
Your point about cutting digital to vinyl is spot on. I have a bunch of DG releases recorded in "4D Digital" (eg many Horowitz recordings) that sound magical on vinyl.
I’m a new subscriber and I enjoy your content. I live in the Bayou City, Houston Texas and I have been curious to see an album ranking for Dr John. Have you ever listened to Dr John’s catalogue?
If both are recorded, mixed and mastered the same I would choose the CD. Current transports and DAC's have come a long way. I also think that you need to spend a lot more on an analog rig to have equalvant quality in sound. Just my two cents. I have all my vinyl and listen to Cd's mostly with a higher end SACD player that doesn't have the digital harshness but it's dependent on the actual quality of the CD. It's the turntable, arm and cartridge, set up, pops and clicks and then the static, cleaning that adds multiple variables. I don't stream because it doesn't sound as good. Now the cost of vinyl is really expensive in comparison.
Variety is the spice of life! Not gonna make the same mistake again by dumping CDs like I did some vinyl in the 90’s - love CD box sets - love vinyl too - so it’s all love here ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Some really great and accurate vids from you recently Mazzy... very good of you to share your insights - and for being so honest about your experiences over the years. thanks.
The most satisfaction I have gotten in recent years of collecting records (I just started collecting used vinyl since covid plus my original lp collection which I never got rid of) is taking a used record that cost a buck or five, cleaning it both manually and ultrasonically, putting it in a new sleeve, cleaning the cover and putting on an outer sleeve, then kicking back and listening to the lp. Usually it sounds near to great thanks to the cleaning and the original engineering, mastering, musicianship. And now it will stay clean in my collection.
Thankyou Mazzy. Slowly started returning to vinyl in 2013. Mostly all vinyl purchases once again since 2017. First LP purchase was probably at age 11 or 12: Sly and The Family Stone "Stand" first press. I have many CDs and many LPs. I do not have many items in both formats so the two collections really do not overlap. Not quite as many as you, but I am in the ballpark! Sound quality varies. Sometimes CDs sound very good. Sometimes LPs sound very good. I stream music almost every day also. I do not have hi-end streaming equipment so streaming sounds not so good. When I finally succumbed to CDs in the early 1990s, I immediately set to trying to take the edge off digital: TUBES (conrad-johnson mostly). I am more into the music than format or expensive equipment. Sound quality is a plus. And CDs improved sonically. FYI: In general, my LPs are quiet. CDs are quieter, however. I WILL buy a CD if the vinyl COSTS TOO MUCH. The Fire! Orchestra's latest vinyl release price vs. CD price is a prime example. No need for any debate for me. Just spin something....
I'm a huge fan of Hurwitz's channel (about a third of my listening is to classical), as he IS enormously knowledgeable about classical music, highly insightful, with excellent taste IMO in superior renditions of classical repertoire- and he's not pretentious about the genre. That being said, his views on cd vs vinyl are IMO somewhat off; but then again, while I generally prefer vinyl over digital for non-classical genres of music, for classical orchestral music, given the enormous complexity of the music (many more players!) plus the abundance of quieter passages in certain works, I often defer to digital for them. I think that the general quality of vinyl pressings out there, while adequate to showcasevthe strengths of non-classical music on vinyl, can fall short on the low noise floor that's much more important to much of the classical listening experience- plus, the bulk of classical works don't require flipping a disc.
I have a ton of vinyl to get rid of, but don't know how to go about it, and don't have time to do it online. And local used record stores don't travel, and I don't drive.
I am reprinting the comment I made after I watched both videos. Young folk (those under 65 - I am 79) often do not consider mobility issues that can present themselves as they age. As one grows older, it gets much easier to play CDs. I still love vinyl, and the care I took with my collection minimized pops, clicks, and annoying scratches. Sometimes, when I play vinyl, one would think it's digitized because of the lack of surface noise. Anyway, here is the edited comment I left for Dave and Michael, and am now leaving for you: 'Mobility matters, too. I may not be up-to-date on what is out there, but CDs play longer than vinyl without needing to turn or change an LP. Or, gasp, have one vinyl drop on top of another. There are multi-disc CD changers that give listeners hours of music without needing to reload. Like all of you, I prefer to own physical products. With the amount of music DH discusses, I am often inspired to listen to the music of the day if it is in my library or buy it on CD if it's not. CD convenience enables me to listen longer and ensure that I do not have too many opportunities to fall.
Have to agree with Hurwitz. Classical music best suited for cd format. Dah dah dah daaaah!
Agreed, I'm a diehard jazz vinyl collector but when it comes to classical, its CDs all the way. I spent the weekend listening to Daniel Barenboim's full Beethoven symphony cycle. Such back to back listening sessions would have been marred by the constant interruption involved in listening to vinyl. Also, the lower noise floor of digital is much more apparent when listening to classical.
Presumably the loudness war with its limiting and brickwalling never ruined classical CD's to the extent that it did with rock & pop. But brickwalling is not an inherent feature of digital audio, it was a choice made by labels and mastering engineers.
I have all of my vinyl from the first one I bought, Beatles '65, I traded a few away for other LPs. I haven't had a turntable for awhile. I'm a year older than Mazzy, and have some trouble with my hands. I also like the ability to listen to the whole album without having to flip the record over. That said I bought Neil Young's Barn in a set that included both the CD and the vinyl. I bought the Band On The Run Half-Speed Master last year, and went to a vinyl show ( I'm not sure what they are called) and picked up some albums.
My favorite part of this is @19:00 ! I have no idea how my politics became associated with collecting records, but there it is!
I have thousands of titles on both formats. With that said, I've never once turned my head at my speakers when playing a CD because of the sound. When I play a record I regularly stop what I'm doing and just listen because I can't believe that sound is coming from my modest system. Last night it was U2's The Joshua Tree. Fantastic sounding record.
I know just what you mean. CD is good, sure, but no That good.
Fun video mazzy. 👍 You make many salient points.
Vinyl has been in my collection since HS. CDs also take up lots of space too 😊.
You have a premium system that enhances the vinyl listening experience. That's where that warmth comes from I have no doubt.
I recently purchased a quality RTR DAC that sounds so amazing and rivals vinyl playback.
There are so many CD box sets that fill in gaps of certain groups and include so much extra live and rare demos too. Greg
Wow! You nailed the arguments! You’re being fair and balanced as always! Both Dave and Michael are valued internet websites music lovers can enjoy!
I grew up in the CD age. .. So that's all I've known... Don't wanna swap out all my thousands of CDs with vinyl....
The Japanese people are great with efficiently using space. It totally makes sense that their CD cases do as well.
Thanks Mazzy. I’m a regular viewer of Hurwitz and Michael and you, so appreciated all three of these videos. But I would argue the vinyl resurgence actually started with classical, through reissues by Chesky, Analogue Productions, and Classic Records, beginning in the 1990s.
My memory of the vinyl resurgence is different from yours. I remember jazz artists being primarily featured in those audiophile LP issues coming from MoFi, Mosaic & Analogue Productions. In fact, Chad Kasem had those 1990s ads in Stereophile, prominently featuring Miles Davis’ Great Prestige Albums & Thelonious Monk’s Riverside Tenor Sessions. There were some classic rock titles, but mainly jazz. Classical had a ways to catch up, when it came to the vinyl reissue market.
@@SamWesting An interesting topic to be sure, and I would never claim to have a highly reliable memory! Per Discogs, Chesky started reissuing Living Stereos (many without the original cover art) in the early 80s. The first APs (early 90s) appear to have been classical, followed quickly by mostly jazz reissues. Classic Records got underway in 1994 and was mostly or exclusively classical. Didn’t check MOFI or Mosaic.
My memories of the vinyl resurgence were probably shaped by Michael Fremer’s write-ups in Stereophile. Think he started there in the mid ‘90s. No doubt he wrote about Classic & Michael Hobson along the way. But his expertise was more in rock & jazz, & that’s probably why I find the jazz reissues more memorable than anything else. I also credit labels like Mosaic for their part in keeping vinyl alive, as they licensed LP versions of so many jazz titles that the majors were only interested in putting out on CDs.
@@fredericmorris2931 that was a cottage industry, a very niche cottage industry at that, hardly something you'd call a resurgence.
Nicely said Mazzy! I agree with you. I hear a distictive difference between vinyl and cd's, and i prefer Vinyl. But everyone has to buy the format that suits him/ her best, there is no right or wrong, it's all about personal taste.
Hi, Mazzy! First time viewer. I've collected both Records (I hate the term, "Vinyls") & Compact Discs since I was very young (64, now). I even worked in Record stores from 1982-2005, plus bought & sold both formats at record shows for about 15 years. I love the convenience of CD's, but love LP's as well. I really enjoyed your video. I like the way you scurry back & forth between the two rooms. Good thing they are so close. I also wanted to mention about the CD jewel cases: The biggest space-waster are those 2-CD cases! I actually went through most of my double-hinged cases & replaced them with the 2-disc "thin" cases. I DID have to remove the front inserts, but then I replaced them with the booklets. That really helped me a lot with the space issue. I suppose it may hurt the collectible value, but I doubt there's a lot of value to most of those (fairly common) CD's anyway!
Mazzy, I really like your set up for storing lps. Can you share who makes it, and do you know if it is still being made? ....the shelving units that is.
Many Thanks, Michel (the ones that are light colored wood, not the white ones)
IKEA Bonde. They unfortunately stopped making them around 15 years ago
@@mazzysmusic they are so simple and so badass!!
And the great debate goes on. If I love the music, I start with what format it is available in and go from there. I appreciate the passion of some for one format over the other, but in the end it’s all about fun and the enjoyment we get from music. Whatever format your current rig and budget support and which sounds best to you, that’s the way to go. My two cents worth with devaluation.
Whenever I grow restless or bored listening to music it's invariably via a cd and I tend to start skipping tracks or, for instance, pick up a magazine. Same circumstances but with a vinyl record more often than not I find I can't bear to interrupt playback and have to listen to the end of the side. Perverse thing is, when using headphones, I find the opposite applies as headphones, for me, tend to highlight the inherent problems with vinyl (mainly surface noise and rumble). I wonder if this is partially a function of volume levels as I definitely play headphones much louder than with speakers, mainly out of consideration for my neighbours?
Analogue is almost but not quite...records are usually easier on the ears, ' warmth' is due to the mechanical restrictions imposed in the disc recording and playback process, if you can get up to 16khz plus or minus a db or so on vinyl , you're doing ok. As a disc mastering engineer for 50 years, I don't have a preference, as mentioned at the end of the day, the music is the thing..one isn't better than the other , they just sound different. Vinyl may be a good archival format tho..pvc is pretty stable if stored properly..
I like to digitize my vinyl at 96 kHz - my hi def files by and large sound better than store bought cd’s when a/b’ing the same title. I really don’t think it’s all in my head - the difference to my ears is significant.
I believe that ✌🏼
Vinyl usually is mastered at higher res than CD, and then goes through the magic vinyl process. You do hear that.
It's nice to say "Mazzy loves you" and I wholeheartedly respond with a "Paul loves you". I'm probably a "colder" person than you are, and I prefer CD, and I can't really get used to streaming, much like after 30 years I still can't work direct from the PC screen, I need to print, to underscore, annotate.... But, sometimes, I get the impression (I'm not certain!) that I "hear" the quality of vinyl, yes, that highly touted "warmth". But then...the quietness of CD in near-silent classical passages. I'm not going to make a point of it: I like MUSICKE, and that's the only thing that matters there... Love to America, hope is making a comeback there!
Fun exercise: Listen to mono pink noise from digital vs from vinyl (on a test lp). Imagine a waterfall. You'll get a clear idea of what the difference is and what vinyl does (in your system as it's heavily dependent on your source equipment). Mastering is taken out of the equation. In my system the noise on the lp is smoother, more open, has more depth and is a little broader creating a halo/bloom around instruments.
So basically a record changes the original sound is what you're saying.
@@emilspec1227 Yeah, like speakers, microphones, amplifiers, rooms and the whole artificial concept of stereo. If you are a musician and went through the process of recording your instrument and are familiar with live music, you quickly realise there is no such thing as an original sound in your living room.
@@Sonus1002 I'm talking about the sound of the original recording. In the context Dave was talking about and concerning mostly classical music recordings I would say that most of these are very good stereo recordings of the actual performances and you don't want anything to impart additional coloration to it.
@@emilspec1227 It's an illusion that's far away from the original event. Have you been to a world class concert hall sitting 3 meters behind the conductor? It's not comparable in any way. Good vinyl playback adds to that illusion and makes it sound more dimensional. Better speakers do the same, a better room does the same. But again, uncolored recording? You're kidding.
@@Sonus1002 but acording to your original statement CD is closer to the original event as there is no additional coloration due to harmonic distortion vinyl imparts to it.
I’ve bought a lot of vinyl over the last 5-7 years and am increasingly disappointed in the quality of the pressings. I ordered a Blue Note album (Blue Hour by Stanley Turrentine) that had some kind of weird ripple pressed into it that made my tone arm bounce. It wasn’t warped. This flaw was pressed into the record. I returned it and against my better judgement asked them to replace it. When I finally got the replacement, it had the same flaw. I’ve had other issues with quality as well so I’ve decided to limit my purchases of new vinyl. I’ll hunt for used when I’m in the mood, but I have really come to appreciate streaming. Most everything on my streaming service is at least 16 bit 44.1khz (cd quality) and some of it is higher resolution. If I’m honest with myself, I’m not 16 and I don’t listen to albums over and over again. I might listen to an album a handful of times over a few weeks but I move on to the next one. I don’t need to keep accumulating all this stuff. Streamed music can sound excellent if you get a good DAC and good speakers or headphones. If I A/B’ed it would I prefer the vinyl? Probably, but I don’t listen to music that way. I don’t look for reasons not to be happy with what I’m hearing.
I’m of your generation and I too went through the dreaded purge in the late eighties and like you I got most of them back. I still buy new vinyl releases as well as second hand stuff. But the second hand stuff is always a gamble. So nowadays my music pursuit has swung in the direction of CDs. One huge reason being that I’m finding them for A BUCK at local fleas. And my truck has a CD player! I pick up some stuff I never had before and pop em in the ol’ Tacoma and they sound P E R F E C T. Of course, some don’t, but it’s more the original mastering issue. I recently scored a bunch of early Elton John CDs (remastered version) and they sound incredible!!!! And there is so much jazz out there that was prohibitively priced back then. Now I’m picking up Bill Evans box sets for minuscule amounts. I got the complete Miles at the Blackhawk for like twenty bucks. And all that Riverside and Impulse stuff. PENNIES! I’m a happy person, Mazzy, because……it’s about the music stupid.
For classical music, cds definitely obviates the need to adjust the volume when the dynamics change, as they really do much more in classical music. At least I remember- and my equipment was run-of-the-mill- what a drag it was having to change the volume. I mean, sometimes the music became inaudible.
In my case, after decades without vinyl in my life, I have returned to them. Somehow I knew I would because I never sold or gave away my records. Not going to get technical here, for me is about legacy. Being able to listen to old recordings the way there were mastered, remixed and released. With the track order decided by the artist(s). It's a multi sensorial experience. And yes, it terms of artwork or liner notes, when you reach certain age... size matters.I normally listen to film scores, so it's great to grab a 1960s first pressing and travel back in time. I also have hundreds of cd's I listen to on a regular basis. Never buy new stuff on vinyl though. IMHO, it doesn't make sense. I see it as a trap record labels want you to fall into. And the prizes are insane. Summing it up, for me is vinyl for most recordings from the 50s up to mid 80s. CD from then on. It's all about the music!!
I have no problem with people having preferences. Personally I enjoy both CD & vinyl and have a good enough system to be able to enjoy the two formats to the full.
The thing that irks me somewhat is the constant peddling of ‘the warmth of vinyl’ & ‘the glassy sound of CD’. It’s nonsense it is not at all an accurate description. Like I said I enjoy both formats and have a good system, but I can 100% admit that this romanticising of vinyl and trashing of digital is BS.
I've got thousands of each, I listen to the Music....
I don't listen to CDs as I no longer have a CD player nor do I have a turntable. I do have a top of the range Bose 360 with a paid Spotify subscription. It does the job for me. Usually I'm listening when doing other things but I now can accept any sort of classical music. The times I sit up and listen tend to be Classical recordings that are reference recordings and you can never know why it is exactly. Klemperer's Brahms symphonies, Cluytens Faure's Requiem or Bernstein's Haydn Symphonies.
I'm now very invested in vinyl (both financially and emotionally), but I still have hundreds of CDs and won't part with them. Of course it doesn't have to be one or the other. For classical music I can definitely see the advantage of the CD, especially when the music is a long Bruckner or Mahler symphony with movements that last 30 minutes - on vinyl, that's gonna have to be split over two sides. Same with some jazz, like some of Cecil Taylor's hour-long pieces or Ornette Coleman's 'Free Jazz': for the latter, on CD you can listen to the official take AND the alternate take on one uninterrupted disc. But those are exceptions. When a vinyl record is mastered and cut well - especially, say, a modern one done by Kevin Gray or Ryan K. Smith or Bernie Grundman - it blows a CD version out of the water. It's not about "warmth," unless by that you mean soundstage, the separation of the instruments and the physicality of them (especially when they're acoustic instruments).
Hi Mazzy, I recently picked up a 50th anniversary Blu-ray edition of Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon'. I know people will groan about yet another version of this album but I have to say this blu-ray edition sounds better than any other digital version I've heard. It sounds fantastic and I can inhabit and immerse myself in the music despite its non-analogue nature! Hope the London trip goes well and you can incorporate the trip into upcoming videos.
When I'm worried that the size of my record collection (about 2,200 LPs, over 3,000 CDs, plus numerous 45s and cassettes) is the sign of a sick obsession, I like to get a glimpse of Mazzy's collection...holy cow!
I was a teenager in the 90's so started out buying cds. I don't have the money to replace my collection on vinyl and don;t have the space for two collections. I was also listening to my dad's LPs in those days and he still has good few which I'll listen to on occasion when I'm at his house. It's a great format but I'm sticking with cds. On the packaging thing, I agree. It would have been better if they had started in thinner, card sleeves (Not those ultra thin ones; I hate those).
Hello from 🇬🇧 Great video Mazzy. By the way,do you own any mini discs ? I collect CDs rather than vinyl, because It's cheaper plus I don't have the room to store them.
There is a difference between vinyl and cds when I play them on my system at home. The CDs are more 'metal' (or is it plastic) sounding. LPs are quieter, fuller sounding. However, a collection of several thousand records is not for everybody. 8,000 tracks on iTunes? Piece of cake.
Of course, the history of the Album Era is also the story of the digital technology being born. No LPs, I would think, not so much development, not as quickly, for the computer industry. Not sure if that's true. But that's how I feel about it as an old audiophile and computer user. The iPhone is the iPod with a phone chip added, and the iPod is the Walkman without the cassette tape. Kids listen to their MP3 today as much as I did my records and (in the car) tapes.
You have a point that the right way to merchandise outtakes is on video (Beatles Get Back) or a promo box with hundreds of tracks and studio outtakes. However, I still rip the CDs into my computer and listen there.
"Its the Music Stupid"... fortunately, fingers crossed, it will still be the music 50 years from now.
Finally, of course the art work counts! I have a special set of LPs that are together simply because the covers are great (as it happens, so is the music inside).
I was diehard vinyl up until about a year ago, but I'm happy to say that that is no longer the case. After discovering the following three products and adding them to my system, I can now say with full confidence that these three have drastically improved the sound of the cd, to my ears anyway, by removing almost all of the hardness and dryness that seemed so characteristic of the mediium. In its place, I now hear the sound of real music: warm, rich, and most importantly, tonally correct: meaning vocals sound like real people singing with true emotion and sounding more like their true selves vocally, and musical instruments, be they acoustic or electric, whose sonic character shines through with every pluck of the cello, or every downstroke of the electric guitar!!...But enough rambling!! Give these three products a try then listen for yourself, and you decide. (1) CD cleaner spray by The LAST Factory/LIVERMORE, CA (2) RD-2 Disc Demagnetizer by ACOUSTIC REVIVE and finally, (3) Virtuoso Black CD Mat by MARIGO AUDIO Lab message is for all in the vinyl community who desire one thing: to have your system sound its very best on all recorded music: be it analog or digital.
when we planned the furniture for our previous flat, it was clear that we only wanted LPs in our living room, where our main HiFi system was. So I ripped my 3000+ CDs, hid them in the study and listened to the content via high-quality streaming. After 18 years and moving houses again, it is still the same - vinyls are closer to me, physically and emotionally, in the living room. The CDs, which I all kept, are hidden away in a separate music room. Streaming is practical when you cannot focus on the music that much, i.e. when you are busy in the house, have guestes, etc. When we are on our own, we prefer listening to LPs. And I don't dare to discuss if digital or analogue is better. My ears are only accepting analogue signals anyway.
I agree with your take on CD packaging 💯. My preferred format is the CD but I can spend days on end listening to vinyl and on occasion I'll break out the few cassettes that I have clung onto throughout the years. 🎼💿🎸😎
I love vinyl above all other formats. I listen to a good amount of classical. CD's are good in that a long movement of a symphony isn't interrupted in the middle by having to turn over a record. That said, CD's can sound harsh in the high mid-range.That's really noticeable in piano and choral music. The problem seems to be solved with SACDs. I'm fortunate to own a Cambridge Audio disc player that plays SACD's. Acoustic Sounds sells a fair amount of them, and for some classical labels it's the default.
For me as a student DJ at UCLA -KLA-83-1980 I miss cueing up a record and especially gradually poting up a live album!
I saw the video. I found it very interesting but I don't take sides. I have a vinyl collection and a CD collection but I just don't have time to listen, though I just bought a Mary Gauthier CD. Reading takes up all my time. But I do listen to satellite radio and every week I'm introduced to new artists on Outlaw Country. I find it a useful resource. However, I have to say that reading Seneca's letters on ethics satisfies me more thoroughly than putting on an album.
I too am a member of the senior citizens music collectors. My collection is 90% of albums in Flac files on my hard drives and the rest is CD's. I have been there and done that with vinyl and I'm not going back. I recently had a song played back for me from a Reel to Reel, CD, Dat Tape and Flac file and was asked which sound best. I choose the Dat Tape, so I guess at this age can I really tell the difference? I just want quality music no matter where it comes from.
I suspect Dave Hurwitz doesn't have a large rock or jazz collection. He's talking, purely, from a classical viewpoint. I agree with him re classical recordings. I have 78 albums (that's where the term comes from) of large scale classical works taking up multiple discs. The listener had to turn the record over every 4 minutes. From 1950 you had to turn the record over every 20 minutes. Finally, from the mid 80s, you could listen to Beethoven's 9th without having to move from your chair with the bonus of no surface noise & scratches or deterioration from multiple plays.
Rock & Jazz are different beasts entirely. Shorter tracks, most modern releases still fit on a standard LP.
Each to their own & I'm delighted (and amazed) that records are still with us. I've been buying music for close to 60 years. While I never stopped collecting records, I buy new recordings on CD while scouring shops for second hand black stuff.