SBC Votes on Female Pastors & IVF: What You Need to Know
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
- The Southern Baptist Church is voting on to outlawing female pastors and on a resolution urging the government to limit IVF. We discuss what these votes mean for the future of the church.
Watch the full episode here: • Dr. Tony Evans Steps D...
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They should not even have to vote on that. There are plenty of liberal denominations and if people have a problem with the bible they should just leave the SBC.
Your right . They cowardly
They should not have to vote on it, but they do have to vote on it. They should pass it now. I am not familiar with the language Allie used when reading the amendment. What needs to happen is that these churches and individuals need to be kicked out via some short process.
Churches who take obviously rebellious actions like appointing women to be the pastors and bishops, appointing unrepentant practicing homosexuals, officiating gay weddings, or bringing amendments advocating for changes in these directions, should be be automatically banned from voting and bringing things up for vote. They should be banned until the floor vote lets them back in. Otherwise, they'll just keep bringing up the same stuff over and over again.
Besides if the denomination is appointing drag queens and gay-married lesbians who sell aborted baby parts on weekdays to be pastors and bishops, then that denomination is already lost. Evil has to move on to fight a church that is still standing.
The SBC is not biblical….especially now that the leaders have allowed members to have “their” say and the Law amendment vote did not pass…..😢
By the biblical metric, ALL denominations are liberal because they reject the revelation of God. 1 Cor. 1 explicitly outlaws sectarianism, so the fact that they exist contrary to the command makes them liberal.
This is why the SBC needs to be dissolved. Or at least those churches that support woman pastors should be kicked out! Of course, the next issue will be homosexual "Pastors". You know it is.
I do not believe that women were called to be leaders in a church. The Bible teaches that women need to be silent in the church. 1 Corinth. 14.
You do not dissolve a denomination bc of a few wayward churches. And in the scheme of the whole, it is a few. SMH
Left the PCUSA in 2011 over this and went to SBC where I preach monthly! Now this! Apostasy is here! I believe and will forever the Holy Bible!
They voted to reject female pastors.
Pentecostal denominations have ordained women for a century. There is no slippery slope.
I am glad you have shown us the implications of IVF. You made me aware and think about it. If it does not involve me or anyone I know I may have never thought about it.
The issue of women preaching should never ever be a topic of debate.
Thank you, again, Allie. Your podcast is so encouraging. Thank you and may God continue to bless your outreach to Biblical Christians.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.". I Timothy 2: 12
Yet Priscilla taught Apollos and was commended for it. Also, authority in this verse in the original language means by force….
I pray you read with word with discernment and not by your own biased mind. The scriptures are deeper than you think.
*with her husband, in private. Here’s the verse for your reference:
Acts 18:26
[26] He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
@@robinryals31 she was not a pastor
Heh. You’re listening to a woman’s podcast talking about matters of Christian doctrine. She’s not being quiet.
I won't stick around with the denomination if they start accepting women pastors and elders. It's unbiblical and it would tell me immediately that this is a place that is more concerned with how it looks to the world than pleasing God and saving souls.
It seems when women get leadership positions in the church, it ushers in a lot of things that aren't biblical.
The Law amendment did not pass🥺🥺
@@mandygainey312 So, they won't be allowing female pastors?
@@pinkrubixI believe it means to ban women didn’t pass which means before long ( just watch increase by next year Convention) it will skyrocket to women pastors! Check out the LSCM they do NOT have women in any form preach!!
It is my understanding from listening to another UA-cam video that some were going to vote against the amendment because of some awkward wording. The wording would mistakenly be against a women even being a leader over the children’s ministry, etc. best to clarify this with the pastor. Everything is still a complimentarian stance so that shouldn’t change. And they did boot a church with a female pastor.
I would never be a part of a church that has a women in a pastor or elder position, period. If they do , it can only mean they do not consider the Bible relevant except when it serves them.
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false.
Have you read Paul's letters? Any of them?
@@gideondavid30
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers...
-excerpt 1 Corinthians 4 KJV
-words of Paul
And do not call anyone on earth your father; for only One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
-excerpt Matthew 23
-words of Jesus
@@8784-l3byou should try the letters to Timothy and Titus first
@@8784-l3b So disregard everything else said without any context?
Allie, your work about ivf and surrogacy has been so strong. As someone from Alabama, I really encourage you to have a dialogue with our Junior Senator. Both of you being strong ladies of faith and mothers, I believe she'd be receprive to your information. From what I see, she, most likely, has views that you did before your research. There's so much commonality between you two.
My heart broke that they avoided any decision on abortion. Shame #SBC2024
What? There was a vote regarding abortion ?
I am Catholic and find it interesting that there is finally another Christian denomination speaking against IVF. The Catholic Church has officially stated many years ago that it’s a sin to participate in IVF. The reasons being that it is God’s intention for a child to be created from the unitive and procreative union between a married man and woman. And of course, also because of the issue with frozen embryos being human life. I’m glad to see another Christian group speaking up for human life.
Romans 1 in effect in the Churches.
I hope they keep this same energy in removing disqualified male pastors.
No kidding. "The husband to one wife." Not more than one wife in succession. Not porn addicts. Not adulterers.
Sammmmmme
Let the Lord do His work, it will happen!
Sure… they’re are unqualified males
But there are no qualified female pastors… zero
Louder, for those in the back
Complimentarian. Jesus is the head of the church. Gods Word reigns. Not up to personal interpretation. Churches that fail in these regards fail to continue as Christ's church on earth.
We need repentance and. revival so much in all the churches
IVF is dealing with the commoditization and destruction of human life. It’s eugenics going on right now- it deserves repeated discussion. This channel is not really for our entertainment guys, it’s informative and for our edification first and foremost.
Full-time female pastors are a road to a woke and/or disintegrating parish. I have witnessed it first hand. Being a pastor involves conflict and telling hard truths, and women struggle with that. It really takes a toll on us because God has made us as women especially empathetic and sensitive to emotion. It is good that God has made us this way, but it is not compatible with full-time pastor leadership.
We have seen many denominations go woke: always at the head of it there is a female pastor (usually several) who has decided that some of the gospel teachings are too "hurtful" and need to go. Emotions over truth can quickly become the norm when women are the highest authority figure in a church. However, at the same time I notice that female pastors develop hard hearts. It's almost like they try to masculinize themseles to live up to the role of pastor, but it becomes a harsh imitation of masculinity that leads to bitterness. They grow to hate the soft feminine parts of their own personality that are making it difficult to pastor authoritatively. The parish gets lead into chaos and disintegration while the female pastors themselves are struggling and burnt out, typically doubling down on the exact things that are causing the problems often because they struggle with listening to criticism.
Many men fail in the role of pastor *despite* the masculine inclination to authority and leadership. How can women who do not have a masculine inclination succeed then?
Women should give their testimony and be involved in the parish, but they should not be in the role of full-time pastor or leader.
THANK YOU.
No. Pentecostal denominations have had women pastors for a century, and they haven’t gone woke.
In Matthew 7:24-27, our Lord explicitly says, build on rock and not on sand. Evangelicals will eventually cave. Up to the 1930’s all the mainline churches were against contraception and then the teaching changed. These issues are only a matter of time.
I say this because there is no church polity. Not even an organization as big as the SBC can bind its members and churches morally and doctrinally.
Our Lord sheds light on this issue in Matthew 18,
“If the member refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if the offender refuses to listen even to the church, let such a one be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.”
However, in the case of excommunication, this member can just go down the road to a Baptist church that does espouse the beliefs they’re clinging to. If not a Baptist church, then they may become Methodist, or Anglican or non denominational. Ultimately the job of the church is to bind consciences. That is what it means to build on rock. Scripture is the house, the church is the rock. If the church is made of sand and cannot bind, the logical conclusion is Judges 21:25,
“In those days there was no king in Israel; all the people did what was right in their own eyes.”
Again, our Lord sheds clear light on this in Matthew 16:18-19, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Before his bitter and most sorrowful passion our Lord prayed for unity, John 17:20-21,
“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.”
There will never be unity if each man can take the house of scripture and build it on the sand of himself. It is not the responsibility of individual believers to have to decipher moral teaching, it is the responsibility of the church or else the church that believer belongs to will have failed him. Evangelicals will fail, it’s only a matter of time.
“And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.
The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.”
They were also against mixed marriages. Not necessarily the measuring stick you want to use in all situations.
@@daviddabrowski01 no. I’m saying church people used to have problems with white and black people marrying. Sunday is still the most segregated day of the week.
@@annchovey2089 I’m sorry I thought you replied to a different comment I had made about Joseph and Mary and the Essenes. In terms of being anti contraception and anti mixed marriage, the two aren’t linked. They could have been right about contraception and wrong about mixed marriage. It still follows that there has to be a teaching magisterium built on rock or the rock and not sand. “You are Peter… and upon this rock I will build MY church”. Not pastor Jim’s church, not Jane’s church. The church Christ established. Because in truth, pastor Jim or pastor Jane get their power from their congregation. They can be voted out, they can be fired. Our Lord’s church isn’t a democracy or corporation, it is a monarchy and the King has left behind a chief steward, the Al habayit, who has the power to bind and loose, who has the keys to the kingdom. Isiah 22:15-22.
Yesss, Amennn... 🙏🏽
We domesticate too many things.
Satan went after the woman at beginning & is now going after the woman at the end. He knows his time is short. Learn from your enemy & his devices.
Too many Christians are asleep & lazy
Love you Allie
But the snake wasn't called Satan in the Bible.
And Adam in the garden was given responsibility and expectation towards that by his creator - God…& Adams passiveness neglected to protect Eve’s. vulnerability.
Notice when God called them to account after tasting what was “ forbidden” God asked Adam specifically & directly “ Adam where are you? What have YOU done?”. His passiveness ( instead of personal ownership) Immediately points to his wife . God DIDNT ask what did “She” do. He asked Adam… what did “You” do (?)
@@Mrs.WordSmith.GEN_8zero I find it interesting that God’s command in the garden was recognizing the unredeemed side of each sex, don’t you? unredeemed man will sit back and let the woman do all the work (how many women complain about this very thing in the home?). And unredeemed women are intent on running rough shod over men, as evidenced in feminism currently.
@@Mrs.WordSmith.GEN_8zerowith that logic… Maybe like a bride not submitting to the bridegroom…. And we’ll see how that turns out. Both the beginning and the end times were given the Word, question is will you have faith to walk in The Word given?
Both
@@Jonathan_Gen15.6 that’s NOT “ logic” that’s Truth! Thats GENESIS ⚠️ WHAT variant of scripture you reading lately ????
I’m glad you talk about IVF. I used to not think much about it, and didn’t see it as wrong though I never felt like it was good either. But now I am against using it and I feel sad for the lives who are conceived and thrown away or kept frozen.
Thank you for your podcast! You are a very sweet soul!
Honestly, women shouldn't even be able to vote on these issues in churches. That is having spiritual authority over not just one man, but every man in the denomination, which is well beyond what the Bible teaches. God bless this church to make the right decisions.
The concept of voting shouldn't exist in any church....period.
My Husband is a SBC pastor and I am very ashamed this was even an issue to vote on. The Bible is very clear on this area. Those who are liberal should leave the sbc. This is a slippery slope.
Allie, thank you for staying true to the gospel 🙏
Thank you for this wonderful video. I haven’t even thought about the risks with IFV. Now you’re getting me thinking 😐🙂
Our church just stopped affiliation with the sbc, and is now affiliated with the reformed baptist coalition.
I'm not sure but it looks like the 1st ever National Eucharistic pilgrimage is converging in Indianapolis. Wow! What a God wink! I pray for unity in the Church.
Amen!
Agree… Charlotte airport is one of my least favorite airports.
I’m so glad people are also finally speaking up about the Charlotte airport! It’s my home airport and I hate it! Too much empty wasted space with no good transport system and the baggage area has exposed wiring hanging from the ceiling. I actually don’t mind Atlanta but maybe it’s because I’m used to dealing with Charlotte.
The Law Amendment was approved by a 61% vote. Alas, since it was an amendment to the SBC constitution, it required a two-thirds majority, and it fell short of that.
Thanks for reporting about that. God bless you!
why you need 'Cephas' papa
They could not find 2/3rds to agree with the Bible. Patetic.
@@diasporan4159 In all fairness, the SBC did expel a church this year that has a female pastor, and they expelled Rick Warren's church last year by nearly a 90% vote. Personally, I think there was some misunderstanding (and misinformation) regarding the law amendment that contributed to its defeat.
@@worshambaptist4177 Riiiight. "If you can't beat them, confuse them". I believe the "misunderstanding" was deliberate and part of the plan/politics. Disgusting.
The people that voted the pastors that voted against this are prejudice against women and A lot of men preachers are jealous that I'll be woman jealousy is as evil as the grave jesus was born through Mary and Mary not only nurtured him she ministered to Jesus god is so ashamed of these men of Pastor's midpastorsThey have disappointedGod once again
I have 2 beautiful teenage daughters who are a result of IVF. They were prayed for throughout the whole process and I consider them a gift from God. They love Jesus and are already at their young age making a difference for His kingdom. I do not promote discarding leftover embryos but to completely reject IVF is not just. I have no doubt that God intended for me and my husband to be parents and for my girls to be valued children of God.
Do you realize all the “discard” that was needed in order to develop the treatment? We’re not saying your daughters are not be loved, but IVF is ungodly and should not be promoted amongst Christians
@@wendymtzc I will let God be the judge of that. I discarded no embryos in the process and personally feel like IVF was answer to my prayers. I can understand that it might be hard for someone to understand that has never struggled with infertility. Thanks for your comment.
I’m so glad you keep bring up IVF. You are the only place I really hear talking about it.
Can you bring in someone who runs a snowflake adoption center?
I think about these forgotten kids quite a lot. Should we as Christians be adopting these kids, or is there a reason we should abstain? All these kids frozen in space-time hurts my heart. They are not a commodity. 😢
Indeed...Wonderful SBC resolution, which includes:
WHEREAS, Biblical creation order portrays the embodied union of husband and wife as the singular normative expression for procreation (Genesis 1:27-28); and
RESOLVED, That we call on Southern Baptists to love all of their neighbors in accordance with their God-given dignity as image bearers and to advocate for the government to restrain actions inconsistent with the dignity and value of every human being, which necessarily includes frozen embryonic human beings;
Praise the Lord! Together, Baptists and Catholics believe in the sanctity and dignity of human life from fertilization. Any modification or manipulation of the Embryo makes it a human product and is an assault on human dignity.
IVF "dissociates the sexual act from the procreative act....., and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person..."(Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2377).
I think we should adopt them out of the freezers
If the stance of the SBC is to limit the clergy to men, thus limiting the earning potential and tax status of female servants in the church, why do they allow women to enroll and pay full tuition for seminary degrees at SBC seminaries?? They should either not allow females or decrease their tuition due to the fact that they will never be able to hold a pastor/senior pastor position.
Because there are things that women can do in church and in ministry other than hold positions of authority over men in church. Knowing the Bible, Christian history, and other things taught in pursuit of a proper seminary dgree can help them.
If women could not go to seminary many of the very solid women’s ministries would not exist today,women’s ministry is known for lacking in theological depth and turning into a cliche because often times the leaders do not know how to properly read the Bible,so allowing women to go to seminary strengthens women’s ministry,most southern Baptist believe that women should have the ability to learn how to study the Bible in context and have a strong theological understanding,there’s only a small group that won’t even allow women to learn.
@@AliyahNadeau making the statement 'women's ministry is known for lacking in theological depth & turning into a cliche"
Women’s ministry are literally well known for being theologically lacking,it has become a cliche.I go to an amazing women’s Bible study filled with women who are very in depth in the word but we can’t use personal examples as the majority.And while yes many of the men’s ministry books are lacking it is usually men’s Bible studies that go deeper into the word.Ive done quite a bit of research on women’s ministries and the most commons sources that are used for study materials along with research on most common teachers that are writing the materials and they are typically very eisegetical and often the female teachers being used start out solid in the beginning and then go off course.Lifeway is one of your biggest resources for women’s ministry materials and it doesn’t take long to notice the issues.You can find hundreds of books addressing the issues that are commons with women’s ministries and addressing the fact that it is a minority that are theologically solid.One book that I really encourage people to read is stop calling me beautiful by phylicia masonheimer where she addresses the need for theological depth and for women to dig deep into the word and move away from cliches.It has taken years to find a good women’s Bible study and I grew up in an area with churches on every corner,I’ve had pretty extensive conversations with the women that lead the Bible study on the issue of women’s ministries and we frequently go over teachers and materials that are being considered.There are many faithful women’s ministries who are in the word but when you really take a look at them on a broader scale they are often lacking,and it is often the fault of the church leadership for not prioritizing it and sometimes not even being aware of what’s being taught.
Cross the Tiber folks.
Out of the frying pan ... !
Lol, you clearly haven't been paying attention to the heresies coming thick and fast from Rome.
@@fruitfulvine222 I can name more blunders and travesties from Rome than an 8 year old can name pokemons. The gates of hell will not prevail.
@@UnremarkableMarxlet’s hear them then
Thanks for the video, always appreciate your content and your willingness to discuss this stuff. PS I'm from Indiana, and I'm really glad that you shouted out the Indianapolis International Airport. It's a very well laid out, clean, convenient airport, and I've always had a good experience there. Definitely makes me glad to be a Hoosier.
That's awesome! Christians need to protect those frozen babies by opposing IVF! I've always thought it was nearly as wrong as abortion to keep those little lives imprisoned on shelves who could at any moment get discarded like garbage. Ending IVF would keep babies off the shelves. People should simply adopt or use other methods that don't involve sperm donors or surrogates.
At the end of the day, you can tell yourself that certain things are up for a vote. That your council, or convention, or whatever you want to call it, can decide what is or isn't God's law. Just like Rome has. All you're really doing however, is voting on whether or not you will put yourselves in enmity towards God. The very notion that they would bring it to a vote is itself very troubling.
GREAT POINT!!! NOBODY gets to talk back to God! It's a total DOUBLE MINDEDNESS!
When I examine 1 Tim 2:12, the grammar can be read in two ways. I have not found anything solid that can definitely 100% prove one way or the other.
In Chapter 1, Paul concludes the idea for Timothy to fight the good fight of faith and how some have shipwrecked their faith. At this point, there is no context provided as to this being in or out of a congregational meeting place.
In Chapter 2, he writes he wants men "in every place" to pray. This gives us the context at least at this point this is not about a congregational setting specifically, but in genera.
After Paul writes about some negatives regarding women about being modest or wearing expensive clothing, he says a woman must learn in quietness. Learn "what" exactly? I think Paul wrote about it in the prior sentence. They should learn to adorn themselves with good works to profess godliness.
Now we get to verse 12, where Paul makes the statement. Here are the two grammatical ways this could be read:
1- I don't permit a woman to teach (anything) over a man or exercise authority over a man
2-I don't permit a woman to teach authority over a man or to exercise authority over a man
It's like this.
I don't permit my children to teach or play baseball with toddlers.
Does this mean my children should teach toddlers any topic? Or does it mean they should not teach baseball to toddlers? This could be read as either they are not allowed to teach kids baseball as well as play baseball with toddlers OR it could mean they aren't allowed to teach them anything and also should not play baseball at all.
Since context matters, I would submit that the women Paul refers to are in need of correction for some reason. But as to whether they are not permitted to teach anything or simply not permitted to teach authority over a man, that is still in question both in context and grammatically. Can anyone prove 100% what Paul intended?
I’m not sure if anyone can prove anything based on tradition alone. The verses in Greek read more like “I do not permit a woman to have authority over or usurp the authority of a man.” In the Greek it seems that women, or wives (gyne’), should never take authority from the man or husband, nor create their own doctrines, nor undermine their authority and teachings. The same thing is mentioned elsewhere that Paul talks about the subject. The idea of each passage is that women should not take the lead over men or the husbands in doctrinal matters, or matters of authority. It does not necessarily mean that women cannot preach or teach, they just cannot act as lead pastors, but may be allowed as under pastors. In support, not the lead roles. At least that’s a possibility and not my belief.
In the case of the woman at the well, then Jesus may have some explaining to do when He revealed Himself to her, who then proceeded to tell her village that she met Him, the Messiah. In a strict sense, she was preaching and teaching men how Messiah had come. I’ve heard this so I’m just presenting it. If true, it seems Jesus allowed a woman to teach the men of her village. I think that’s a stretch, but it does raise the point of whether since she was not married, did she have the covering of Jesus and was sent to preach exactly what He gave her to, or was she out of line and assuming authority over the men of the village in order to preach to them?
Honestly it seems as though Paul, based upon the Temple of Diana and other religious places, believed that women should never undermine their husbands, nor create their own religious practices or doctrines. I believe that he was clear that there is a hierarchy based upon the Garden and the events that transpired. I believe Paul was thinking about protecting women from being deceived and then deceiving others. Women undoubtedly have greater power and influence than most people realize. That was demonstrated by Eve convincing Adam to eat.
Men are generally more skeptical and want to reason through everything first. Women are more nurturing and more empathetic to others and their needs which makes them more vulnerable to abuse, being preyed upon, etc. It’s not a flaw, it’s simply the way that the enemy has chosen to pervert and attack the ones God chose to bring forth life on this earth. That’s my belief anyway.
On this entire subject, can women be elders and teach men etc. ,
you need to know 2 things.
#1) Understand Deborah and what a Judge was (I have a short free postable essay.)
#2) Understand and know, that Paul wasn't a perfect teacher.
(That is another free essay.)
Commentary with scripture, with limited opinions.
@@8784-l3b No, no human being is perfect but our Lord is. And He was most certainly capable of seeing that His thoughts were recorded accurately or were blocked.
@@SusanOltmans
Not sure what you mean. If this is regarding Paul, Paul's
teachings are all over the place on multiple subjects. Jesus
contradicts Paul. Paul contradicts Paul.
@@8784-l3b interesting information. Where’s the essays or can you give a brief summary on each?
My understanding as explained by my pastor is that the SBC already has in its documents a statement describing who is eligible to be pastor. In his words: the "Baptist Faith & Message doctrinal statement has already spelled out what we believe about who can hold the office of Pastor/Elder." This means that women have never been permitted by the SBC to be a pastor. My understanding is that the amendment was meant to clarify or emphasize that, but it seems it was not deemed necessary or caused confusion.
If you Google "Baptist Faith & Message doctrinal statement", you can pull up the 1963 statement which, under "VI The Church" on page 8, 1 Timothy 3:1-15 is listed, as well as other verses which describe the makeup and organization of the Church.
The Great Falling Away even in some Church’s.
I realize this is not the subject you’re speaking on. However I have been visiting a SBC and have discovered that their interim worship leader is a Mason. Can you share your thoughts on this? My spirit is troubled and I don’t know if I can continue attends this church that has sound teaching from the pulpit. Thank you in advance for you time and response.
While I am thankful for your desire to provide important information about the Law Amendment and the resolution on IVF, as an SBC messenger who was in attendance I would like to add some details with reference to the Law Amendment. The amendment failed to receive the necessary votes this year (2/3 majority) to change the constitution of the Convention. The day before, messengers from FBC Alexandria (an egalitarian church) were unseated and their voting privileges revoked by an overwhelming majority. The debate on the Law Amendment was not about whether the SBC is egalitarian, but rather how egalitarian churches within the SBC should be removed.
Would to God that the church in general was more adamant about the safety of the flock from predatory church leaders than it is about driving away women called to the ministry.
there are already SBC churches that have women pastors. The plan is to normalize the idea of women pastors. Then it will be required to have a women pastor on staff. Then anyone who criticizes women pastors will be removed from the convention. Sound familiar?
So, Christian teachings are up for a vote?
They are in protestantism. That's why I like it. Truth can just change and goal posts can be moved. Love always, your pal Satan
@@dman7668it has nothing to do with protestantism. It goes back to believing or not believing what the word of God says. Any group will try to weasel around scripture to validate their position on any given matter.
God the Son says call no man father, yet the pope claims the title holy father, a title which belongs to God the Father alone. Hm.
@@reidveryan9414 Evidently, you do not know what hyperbole is
@@reidveryan9414 It has everything to do with Protestantism, because it is the 1 "Christian" religion that has enormous contempt for centralized authority. That is what the Protestant Reformation was ultimately about: a profound hatred for centralized authority. Protestants repudiate the idea of being ruled by anybody, especially God. That's why they love to vote on doctrines instead of accepting what God says.
@reidveryan9414 ....and on your birth certificate, whom did the doctor claim is your " father"? Paul called himself the spiritual father of the Corinthians and of Timothy, was Paul ignorant of Jesus' words? Or... are you?
Pastor Jared Moore for SBC Prez! Standing firm on the LGBT identity question that's dividing what's left of the conservative church.
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How can I contact her directly?
A pastor applies 2 Timothy 2:2. So how many "pastors" are really pastors?
Yes, the Indpls airport is a bit amazing. Of course, I am from Indiana, so I am a bit biased!
I live just about an hour north of Indianapolis and I have always really liked the Indianapolis airport too!😊
Thank you for standing for truth!❤
Take votes on IVF and Women Pastors, but completely ignores calls to oust abusers. Its almost like the church is so focused on maintaining male leadership that they'll tolerate horrible abuse to keep those men in power
The mRNA shot you will find impacts fertility. It’s not a coincidence that these issues are occurring simultaneously. You can connect the dots.
What they do need to do is pass a rule stating that the issues of female pastors and non-Biblical sexuality are unacceptable and can NEVER be debated again at the SBC.
We need to talk about IVF
Who was thinking that the SBC was a good example of Christianity anyway?
Huxley's Brave New World is coming and a majority of modern women are leading the way....
Study deeper! I know why people hold the position against women as pastors, but it is imperative to go deeper to understand why Paul said what he said.
Will you come up with a different conclusion if you study deeper? If so then it would contradict God’s word, it’s better to just accept clear teachings from the Bible
Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
And think about it who brought up this as an issue that you have to vote on it those individuals that have the power needs the power to be taken away and the people have the power to do that and they need to be doing it doing God's business
Holdfast SBC
One reasonably agrees with this scriptural stance. One hardly lost, however, to the irony that many cessationist protagonists are conspicuously less literal about the Biblically stated urgency of Holy Spirit’s activity in and among those of the ekklesia.
Good thing im a reformed baptist and go to a theonomic reformed baptist church.
My pastor and his wife preach on and off every Sunday. Should I not be going to that church anymore?
Your grown God blessed you with discernment
Sadly it failed . And sadly groups like namb and erlc send messengers as well to vote
What do you mean 'vote'? You neither need to, nor get to vote on issues that the Bible states clearly.
We forget that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is also a hardening ministry. Most people are hardened to it. We are commanded to take the narrow way. The SBC is on the wide road and wants to keep goats. This issue means nothing to regenerated Christians except as a teaching lesson. 8 people were on the ark. Jesus quoted Isaiah and look at Isaiah's ministry. These smiling faces at the SBC just keep talking and talking about nothing ... Junk it . Ditch it. Look how hard it is to find the narrow way
Biggest issue in SBC is the culture of honoring man over God. This is a struggle for most denominations now. So many pastors are hiding major sins as well. There are definitely a percentage not saved as well, just keeping family tradition alive. There really does need to be an overall call to holiness and making our hearts right before God first and foremost. If they took the Sermon of the Mount seriously, we would see a changed leadership. All these individual issues would fall in line with that.
@JillCee YOU need to PREACH!!! Get ready! God hears YOU!!
@@chriswhite3332 Thank you! I do have a lot of people encouraging me to share. Trying to overcome some obstacles right now.
Wasn't the first preacher a woman? Mary preached the first sermon on Easter Sunday morning, when she proclaimed, "I have seen the Lord!"
Can people not see the clear unwritten laws of the universe regarding man vs. woman? Generally speaking, men don't listen to women. Not easily. I'm a woman and even I would tune out a woman pastor. That's how I always took the scripture verse. God is saying women shouldn't be in spiritual authority over men because the men will mostly tune them out and forget what they said.
you wrote:
God is saying women shouldn't be in spiritual authority over men because the men will mostly tune them out and forget what they said.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter,
resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
@@8784-l3b Woman will never be equal to man. That would go against Gods authority! As scripture says “ the man is head of the woman as Christy is head of the Church!” That will NEVER change! Any woman that thinks it will is living for the devil and not God!! The devil has gotten his foot in almost every denomination!!
@@8784-l3bWhat is your point? Deborah wasn’t an elder and the fact that she had to stand up when the men of Israel wouldn’t isn’t a good thing nor is it a way to show that women can defy God’s word.
Stop using my girl to excuse sinful disobedience.
@@ladyphoenixgrey3923
you wrote:
Deborah wasn’t an elder...
The Judge was the primary pastor/shepherd of God's
people during that time period. I suggest my free postable
essay on her. Read time: 12 minutes
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
(In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word
shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has
obvious meaning to the average person.)
Major modern English translations like the NASB use
the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that
was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament
shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way.
“My people have become lost sheep;
Their shepherds have led them astray.
-excerpt Jeremiah 50
For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may
check out Ezekiel 34.
When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period.
But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways.
-excerpt Judges 2
@@mpkropf5062 that is nothing but a pompous self-righteous attitude...you can't learn from God's Word? how about where the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor. 11:1-5 affirms women in that church praying & prophesying (forthtelling God's Word in the Greek...teaching God's laws & decrees)...and that them doing it is OK bc/ they are covered by the male elder........God's Word is the authority behind the pulpit, not a man..not a woman....so you could walk out...but you might need to check your attitude
SBC is looking like the Catholic Church adding to the word of God.
The issue is NOT female SENIOR pastors. that has already been decided. the issue is that some SBC churches give the title of pastor to a LOT of different people. For example, my church has a female over the childrens ministry and she is called "director", while a church down the road also has a female doing the same job and they call her "minister to children" and yet another church who has a female calls here "children's pastor" I grew up in one of the most conservative SBC churches there is, yet we had a female over the choir and music and she was called "minister of music". The debate is over how broadly or how narrow we should use the word "pastor". The word "minister" isnt on the radar, but is it the same thing? The SBC erected a monument way back in 1991 to Lottie Moon, missionary to china and it calls here "a minister of the Gospel". In fact, she started the church in Dengzhou China and for all intents and purposes was THE pastor. This is true of many unmarried female missionaries the SBC sent across the world. Those females started the work, built the churches, and taught the people. So theres another conundrum
pastor=shepherd
shepherd=pastor
These 2 words are the same word. The Judges were pastors/shepherds.
So that included Deborah of Judges 4 and 5.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
@@8784-l3b so kindly, what is your point? Are you saying that women can be pastors with authority over men?
@@caman171
This certainly happened in the Old Covenant. I wrote
an informal free essay on Deborah. Read time: 12 minutes
More is here:
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases.
Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter,
resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
@@8784-l3b well there are still issues. Israel never had a ruling queen, never had a female priest and never had a female in the army. Sometimes I believe God does choose a woman, because a man refused to heed God's call. It is God's way of saying if you dont obey, He can and will use anyone in your place. Also, no women wrote any part of the new testament. Mary didnt even write what she knew but had a male write it for her. I know if my wife had a job that demands everything that being a pastor involves, i would forbid it. How can a woman raise a family and still be a full time pastor with calls all day and sometimes in the night, meetings with nothing but men etc. I might be more open to a female preaching at times, then being a pastor. However, women are ruled by their emotions, and this is why every denomination that adopted female pastors have gone liberal, with the exception of maybe the Wesleyan Church
@@caman171
These matters are addressed to a large extent with my free informal
essay on Deborah. By the way, Deborah was married and a mother.
Also, God ruled Israel through Deborah, since she was a Judge. This
is written in scripture.
Read time: 12 minutes postable here, should you wish a study
Wow, I don’t even know what be going on in my own city 😅. But yes, our airport is amazing 😊
AIRPORTS … I would love to hear your TOP 5 airports and the ones you don’t like .
Thank you !
Alaska
I love my IVF baby. She's my miracle ❤️
I'm sure you love her. She is special I'm certain. But do you have any other children on ice? Most the time people leave more embryos in the freezer.
@@watchwomandebrajesusistheway I have one and I'm planning on getting pregnant next year 🐥🍼!
@@sakurauchiha03 ok .. good... Please don't leave any babies in freezer
These denominations don’t even do anything for the souls in purgatory
Huh?
Catholicism is looking good right about now.
Both IVF and abortion are and have been clear.
No voting either, as if it were a democratic issue.
I’m not quite there yet…. But I’m seeing some wisdom
Come on in the water is terrible!!! Jk it's always a good time to become Catholic 😎😎😎 let me know if you need help or have questions.
So you’d join a pagan worship tribe that idolizes Mary and the dead?
Weird way to show you’re actually on the side of Christ.
🤷🏻♀️
@@ladyphoenixgrey3923 that's hilarious 😂 you are so ignorant of Catholicism. 🤦🤦🤦
@ladyphoenixgrey3923 wow. You are very ignorant, my dear.
They are right about abortion and IVF but wrong on so many other things. Even a broken clock is right twice a day...
SBC has tainted the whole Baptist Church. Clean water and dirty water make dirty water. Where can you go to Church and get “The good and perfect will of God.” Romans 1 is in the Churches.
isnt there a song that says the walls come tumbling down....we are seeing who really is going to stand for what scripture says when the pressure from all sides comes against the truth......
I look at first timothy and I am thrilled that God did not ordain women to pastor.... that is an incredible amount of responsibility and and accountability.... God knew our shoulders were not made to carry this load.
Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
@@8784-l3b Deborah was a prophetess, not a minister. The Bible clearly mentions that ppl came to her for judgement, and even then it was because there was a profound lack of biblical masculinity in Israel. Someone being a prophet doesn't automatically make them a minister, and more ppl need to realize this before mentioning her.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779
I wrote a free informal essay on Deborah. I suggest it to you.
you wrote:
it was because there was a profound lack of biblical masculinity in Israel.
That is addressed in the essay.
___________________________________________________________
(In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word
shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has
obvious meaning to the average person.)
Major modern English translations like the NASB use
the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that
was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament
shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way.
“My people have become lost sheep;
Their shepherds have led them astray.
-excerpt Jeremiah 50
For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may
check out Ezekiel 34.
When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period.
But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways.
-excerpt Judges 2
Deborah, full essay read time: 12 minutes, free, postable
@@theeternalsbeliever1779No. Deborah was a judge.
Highly recommend Mike wingers EXHAUSTIVE study on “Women in Ministry” btw. He actually lets the Bible talk dn put his feelings in there.
I also recommend you listen to Lisa Harper’s Understanding the Bible in proper context.
yeah, we can all play that game...do I need to share some videos of egalitarians who have studied, studied, and done MORE study of God's Word??
And then it didn't pass...
How is the SBC not a great value version of the papacy? You left the church to remake it in your own way.
Tampa better be in your top 5 airports. 😅
Jesus prayed that we’d all be one. Rick Warren simply wanted to agree to disagree but still stay united. Will the Calvinism debate be the dividing line next??
That would be nice!!!! Calvinism has infected so many churches and it’s heresy!!!!!💯💯💯
New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below?
Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary?
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below.
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8, 3:16? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)
We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
God is not now a “racist”. He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son’s blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warned against using “genealogies” in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and Titus 3:9.
The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Watch the UA-cam videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
I will. Thank you. I don't like any church I go to, and I don't feel pulled to go at all. If I see an electric guitar, bass and drums etc I'm out. I do feel pulled to read scripture and to pray often. I stay close to him and hold myself accountable before him. I've learned the best studying myself.
Shouldn't God make.the decision on how the Church is run? I did not realize he left it to a vote. That's why we still need a Prophet.
Praise God for Godly women.
They are NOT Godly women when they go against scripture! They are led by the devil and every Church that supports them is from the devil!!
Terrific resolution which includes:
"WHEREAS, Biblical creation order portrays the embodied union of husband and wife as the singular normative expression for procreation (Genesis 1:27-28); and
RESOLVED, That we call on Southern Baptists to love all of their neighbors in accordance with their God-given dignity as image bearers and to advocate for the government to restrain actions inconsistent with the dignity and value of every human being, which necessarily includes frozen embryonic human beings;"
Praise the Lord! Together, Baptists and Catholics believe in the sanctity and dignity of human life from fertilization. Any modification or manipulation of the Embryo makes it a human product and is an assault on human dignity.
IVF "dissociates the sexual act from the procreative act....., and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person..."(Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2377).
In the last days there will be a great falling away. It's happening on an epic scale in our day. Heresy apostasy and false religions teachers and apostles and prophets. Persecution is coming to the Church. He who endures to the end shall be saved
I don't even care what they vote on. I know what I believe and why.
Everyone a pope unto himself, how's that unbiblical heresy working since 1517?
Looks like the slippery slope just got a lot more slippery for the SBC.
I wonder if Allie would have a different message if she had struggled with infertility...
Do God’s commandments change based on our personal circumstances?
My wife and I have a two year old IVF little girl. Her abusive ex husband made her burn her tubes so she was unable to have a child naturally. How do we, as Christians, move forward with this?
It is what it is, you love your child but acknowledge the fact that she should not have been conceived that way
Allie Beth I listened to another UA-cam video, sorry I forget now which, that said the Law amendment would be voted down because of some awkward wording. That as it was worded it could be used later to come against churches that had women in a leadership position such as simply leading the children’s ministry. Something to clarify with your pastor. And as for IVF, one thing folks are not aware of is that after some people have paid all that money they want results. So several eggs will be implanted at once and then an abortion of all but one will be done later. I know of a case where that happened. Another is that with surrogacy, again, people have paid a lot of money and they want the results they want. So, the baby is a girl? An abortion is done because they want a boy.
Just another reason why I'm a member of an Independent Baptist Church that is NIV only.
@@brianh2477 Well, as of today I've never left a church due to that being an issue.
Glad I’m Catholic. Don’t have to deal with the shenanigans of how Protestant churches change by tossing to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine.
Catholicism is the Scourge of Christianity
Apparently, Christian teachings are up for a vote.
@@maxellton This is what happens when the Protestants protest against Protestants! If they can’t agree then they divide to form new denominations. Why can’t they see that Sola Scriptura (private interpretation) isn’t biblical and doesn’t realistically work?
@@TedRobinson-cc9odhow so?
Might I add the reason they are tossed to and fro is because the are not built on the rock(Peter)
SBC is an organization created by men; it will self-destruct. The Holy Spirit is in charge of the Church, not the SBC. Our time and money will be better used on Evangelism local and abroad to spread the Gospel. "And I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man, but to be in silence." If God said it that settles it!
I really like the Nashville airport
Catholic Church has been practicing this for nearly two mellinia
I will never sit under any woman's authority.
I bet your mother says differently.
@janewhitely964 nope, my God, my mother, wife, and daughter absolutely agree with me.
Dr. Ben Carson supports IVF and so does Ted Cruz
Trump too. Most republicans do. Just look at how fast Alabama legislation passed the pro ivf bill after that court case.
Our supposed statesmen will sell us out for votes.
It's a losing issue at the ballot box for Republicans because it has helped people from all over the political spectrum to have children who were struggling otherwise.
So .. Tes Cruz is wrong on the issue.
@brianh2477 You’re the poor soul who has read the wrong books. Christ alone is our Savior. He alone paid the price for our sins.
The Bible is His Book.
Time separate the wheat from the chaff!!
What Does New Orleans Theological Baptist Seminary ( the supposedly #1 theological seminary to attend IN THE NATION) Have to say abt this “ vote”/decision??????????