As a stubborn, independent, head-strong woman; truth is truth & I never want to bend it to get my way. The Bible is very clear about the roles of men & women. My flesh doesn't like it but my spirit delights in truth & I love God's ways, as I believe He wants what is best for me. So I choose to trust Him.
It all goes back to Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. I suggest my short and free essay on her. In it you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors, by God Himself.
Amen, Sister! I taught marshal arts & worked with men o e on one for a good share of my life. It is my belief that The Holy Scriptures absolutely are the infallible Word of God, not to be challenged by man or woman. So I, too, choose to trust Him!
Took the words right out of m my mouth. I’ve never liked to be told I can or can’t do something. I think it’s great that women are in politics and involved in the church (especially leading other women) but I don’t agree with women pastoring churches.
@@samanthakwait8782 Since Deborah was a Judge, she was a pastor. That according to God Himself in Chronicles. My essay on her is short and free, should you wish a study. I don't believe in a 2-tiered priesthood as you do. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood... -excerpt 1 Peter 2
@user-iz8np3vv4i woman are not called to preach, you can cut your hair off like a man and wear pants like one, but you're just spitting in the face of God, not preaching the word of God.
I believe in the biblical roles for men and women as outlined in the bible. I feel much of the degradation we see in society today of the family in particular can be partly traced back to how we have strayed from the roles god has instilled in us (some would call them instincts) due to apathy, the pace of society, distractions, lies, etc. I would not say it is a forgone conclusion but I have noticed a fair amount of churches that have women as pastors frequently venture down paths other than the gospel and will be heavily concerned with social justice issues, environmental issues, and are LGBT affirming. I am male and have nothing against women but it is almost as if having a female pastor can at times be like a trojan horse to start to sneak other doctrines and false theologies into a church.
You are 💯 correct. I’m a woman and I will not attend any church that has women pastoring the church. The reason why is because that is the first step in deconstructing the faith. If a church rejects God’s order, then they will also reject other things that are clearly stated in the Bible. It was through the feminist movement of the 60s-70s that women started leaving their kids to go work, women started murdering their unborn children, divorce skyrocketed, and liberalism became the new norm. When men allow women to take the leadership role that God gave them everything falls apart.
Loved this podcast! Well done Allie. They only thing I would like to say on the beginning subject is that I find that when women get angry and offended about not being told they can be Pastors, there's a pride issue at the heart. God is so good and every commandment and decree He gives is for our good so instead of standing in defiance, try standing in gratitude❤.
That was a common argument used for slavery too "anyone slave who is opposed, just needs to recognize their role in society"🙂 I used to think how you feel too, until I realized my pride was the issue. There are actually very good biblical arguments for women teaching and pastors - anyone who says it's "clear", hasn't studied the Greek or early church on this issue! I encourage you to not judge other people's hearts on this issue, and learn to see this issue for what it is. Complex!
@@abeautifulmoment2714 First, equating image-bearing to gender roles is a flawed comparison. 'Definitions matter' In Greek, "pastor" or ποιμήν (poimēn) means shepherd. It relates to leading God's people as per Acts 20:28 and 1 Peter 5:2. The Bible also uses terms like "elders" and "overseers" to denote authority. Clear qualifications for these roles are outlined in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9. Christ's words to Peter in Matthew 16:17-19 and John 21:15-17 assert that Church authority belongs to Christ, and these roles serve His word. But, women do not have authority in His Church (1 Timothy 2:12). 'Function vs. title' The debate often centers on function vs. title. If someone claims a title, they're also stating they fulfill its function. For women to label themselves as pastors implies they are qualified to fulfill that function, which the Scripture clearly disputes. This issue isn't complex or a matter of interpretation. The core problem lies in a lack of humility and the questioning of God's word. From early church history to recent times, women as elders/pastors was never accepted as it contradicts Scripture. This "movement" aligns more with worldly trends than God's word.
@csimpsonjtd While I wish I could debate you at length on this, I don't see how it will be very fruitful and I just dont have a lot of time - so I will respond quickly. I will say I don't think it's "clear" in scripture at all - the use of the Greek words for "kephale" (Ephesians 5:22) and "authenteo" (1 Timothy 2:12) as well as looking at the lack of gendered language in the Greek for the qualifications of overseers in Titus and Timothy are just the beginning of the problems. "Man of one woman" or "husband of one wife" (depending on your translation) is the only gendered language in the Greek and it was often on women's tombstones - it just means "faithful". I recommend looking into these scholars: 1) Philip Payne 2) Terran Williams 3) Marg Mowzco 4) Lucy Peppiat 5) Sandra Glahn 6) Nijay Gupta I also recommend diving into early church history too. You will be surprised at what you find. In addition, the dominant theology regarding gender that was held by the church for 1500 years was that women were inferior in ontology, and therefore unqualified. It's only in recent history that the idea that women are not inferior and still capable has been accepted. Then again, slavery has been accepted as "clearly biblical" by the church widely at many points as well - (especially where I am in the U.S.). Believe it or not, that is the entire reason the SBC is its own denomination😬 I wonder what else they could be wrong about? Anyway, many blessings to you!
@@abeautifulmoment2714 My goal isn't to debate, but to reflect God's clear word but if we were having a debate then the burden of proof lies with you. "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome." (1 John 5:3) True followers find joy and rest in His word, not confliction and burden. 'Textual criticism' Regardless of "lack of gendered language in Greek", ample proof text supports man's authority. Egalitarianism wasn't an orthodox Church stance. Even with hundreds of historians favoring complementarianism view, a few dissents aren't authoritative. Women's value in Church isn't in question, but their authority over men is. Scripture is clear on this. 'Man stealing' As a black man in a former pro-slavery state, I see slavery's impact on our country and "race" relations. Chattel slavery was never "clearly biblical". The Bible addresses indentured servitude with set constraints on treatment. Man-stealing and dehumanizing servitude were never permitted by God. Yet these were practiced in the antebellum south, Africa, and worldwide. Some even created a slave Bible to falsely claim chattel slavery was biblical. Placing this solely on the SBC and ignoring historical truth is dishonest. US evangelicals recognize the SBC's sinful past with slavery. However, no one alive today bears that guilt, and the SBC has made significant changes to its bylaws. Comparing egalitarianism to slavery is like comparing same-sex relations to civil rights when it comes to acceptance. This isn't a defense of the SBC, but of biblical authority, sufficiency, and accuracy, often distorted by "progressive theologians" to fit modern views. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8) "so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11) Overall, I appreciate the respectful dialogue despite our disagreement. Grace and peace to you.
Great episode!! Some are touting Deborah, Priscilla and Dorcas but nowhere in Scripture do you see these women being set apart for pastors. When the Lord Jesus sent the disciples out, the women were not included. That doesn’t mean He didn’t use the women. God’s ideal is for men to be in the place of leadership.
@loadz03 Not all versions of the Bible are created equal. That's why good Bible scolars need to know Greek and Hebrew to see what each word means in it's original language.
@@loadz03 'translation vs interpretation' We translate, not interpret, from original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic. God alone interprets His word (2 Peter 1:20-21). 'word for word vs thought for thought' Translations are either "word for word" or "thought for thought". The first is direct, the second summarizes. Summaries can be risky as they can add extra thoughts to the Scripture, changing the original focus.
@@Madcow7777 Especially the John MacArthur study Bible. He made a video that says a person can get the mark of the beast and still go to heaven, yikes.
i just wish they would take into consideration the cultural differences that existed back then. For example-Women were not considered important, but Jesus did. So perhaps the scripture is exactly what is meant about a pastor and that it does apply to males & females. With the example of Adam & Eve,-Adam was right next to Eve, he knew what satan was saying was wrong and didn't dispute it when Eve gave3 him the fruit. . Adam could have said no, He knew this was wrong. He should have said, " I'm not eating it."So that argument doesn't hold water
Thank you. This is a vital topic and thankful that you're addressing it. I've been teaching and writing Bible studies for thirty years plus years, and I wholeheartedly agree with the role of pastor is reserved for men.
Too many men, including pastors, live more like patriarchs than complimentarians. If they really believed that our roles were complimentary this wouldn’t be the problem that it is. Thanks to Tom for presenting a truly complimentary approach.
Rick was once my pastor and I was often blown away by his joy, insight, and courage. That said, I am so saddened to hear about this disagreement. Had this happened while I was at Saddleback, I would have had no choice but to move on, and that would have been a gut wrenching experience. So, I really feel for and pray for Rick's flock...
He’s turning woke. He had no problem with the government shutting down church services during covid while not acknowledging the hypocrisy of allowing BLM “peaceful protests.”
This Pastor is completely right. It is not that hard to follow the simple and basic instructions given in the Bible. But man continually insists in re writing the Bible to suit their sinful desires.
The thing is elders are to be selected from within a congregation not hired from without. They can have help from outside to do this. This problem with female pastors has a lot of connections with the development of the career track approach that modern seminaries have fallen into. Elders need to show having a managing role in a home. Seen too many coming out of college going to seminary then going to be a youth minister in a church. That person is not biblically qualified either. No experience managing a home, not qualified...male or female.
Allie, I am a 60 year old (prior) women’s ministry leader who left a charismatic church for reasons of theological disparity on egalitarian vs. complemenarian issues.however, in the 15 years in a strictly complementarin church, I have seen more authoritarian abuse, male power differential used to exploit women, and a non ending diatribe about women submission and lockdown on women leadership- mainly pastoral, but definitely diminishing women. They say equal in value, but don’t celebrate or empower it. Why are we not seeing complentarian voices ALSO driving home the Bible’s clear instruction to men? To husbands, fathers, and leaders? Namely, teaching and upholding the servant leader responsibilities ALSO clearly taught in scripture? I am not merely talking about my local church, but the complementarian churches at large. Men like Bill Gothard, are major generational influencers in a cultural climate that claims to support gender equality but functionally devalues women, holds them accountable for mens sexual sin, and then sentences them to lifelong “servitude” and call it suffering for the will of God. If I did not know the word of God myself I could easily see why egalitarian theology interpretation seems the only path for women. Pastors need to be policing their own instead of dying on preverbal hill supposedly to protect the sanctity of Gods word and His church. Darby Strickland has exposed the HUGE issue of abuse in the congregations at the hands of men in her book “is it abuse.” If you haven’t read this book you should. This is a much bigger cancer in the faith community. Also, this pastor says “qualified” men ONLY are fit for pastoral leadership? Police that. That alone would change everything…
Any teacher is held to a higher standard, as we see in James 3v1. Unqualified men in eldership are not an excuse for females to take those roles. The church needs to discipline any clearly unqualified elder.
Complementarianism That false and confusing teaching, that states Christian women are less than Christian men in a spiritual way, but they really aren't, but they really are. The complementarian teaching prohibits a Christian woman from holding certain positions in a church. They can't be elders neither can they teach men. So why is that? The false teaching makes it clear that the priesthood of the New Covenant is tiered. There is a hierarchy. Those that are higher, the men, can be in leadership positions, like elder. They can teach other men. Those in the lower tier can not be in leadership positions, like elder. They are prohibited from teaching men, because the men are in the higher tier. It wouldn't make any sense. A new believer is automatically assigned their level, higher or lower, at the moment of salvation, as a birthright. Their gender determines their tier. A Christian can not move to a higher or lower tier. A Christian that is in the lower tier (woman) is not allowed to complain of the tier she was placed in. That would be sin, because God made her a woman by His choice. She should accept and also embrace her position in the lower tier. A church, is either a group of Christian men or a group of Christian men and women. A church can never be a group of Christian women, because it would be a group of only those in the lower tier. It would have no elders. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. -excerpt 1 Peter 2 Since the teaching states that women are spiritually inferior to men, but they aren't, but they are, when did that start? But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a wrongdoer. -excerpt 1 Timothy 2 It started with the first woman. She was deceived, and sinned because of it. So we have a teaching that accepts that men and women are fallen beings. Both genders are sinful by nature. However women are different. They are lacking the ability that men have to judge if some situation, some concept or teaching is sinful. This inability was passed down from Eve to all women. It remains to this day. A woman in our time was 'lacking' from birth, even from the womb. So what can be done? Nothing according to Complementarianism. That is because an anointing of that powerful masculine being called the Holy Spirit, is just not sufficient. Even the Holy Spirit can not elevate even one Christian woman to the spiritually superior level of a Christian man.
Mike Winger has an 11 part women in ministry teaching on his UA-cam and podcasts… spoiler alert he’s complementarian but does such a great job showing both sides and scripture.
The problem is, there is only _1_ correct side: the position God takes. If a person opposes that position, they're not really interested in anything God has to say. Contrary to what a lot of "Christians" may think, God sees it as a black and white issue because it is. Anyone whose will is not in line with His own is indeed working against Him and calling Him a liar like Satan does.
Wow. I have never thought that Adam's response should have been to ask God to kill him for Eve's sins. What a powerful image. Thank you Jesus for taking my sins and dying for them. Thank you Pastor for this awesome picture. What love Jesus has for us.
I too as a christian don't believe women should be Pastors. My church organization is doing that now, especially in the black churches. I will not go to a church that has a woman pastor. I have no problem women teaching but they cannot be ordained
I had that too. But actually ghe bible says a woman cannot have authority over a man or teach men. So I now churches where they have woman pastors. But they only have authority over women only ministries and only teach women. So I think that is fine tho. But women teaching men is a sin actually and a lack of spiritually 1 Cor 14:33-37
I used to be a part of a very large southern Baptist church and heard this all of my life. Then I moved to the Midwest and became a part of a mega Lutheran church that does employee female pastors. This was one of the topics. Their argument is that we need to take into context the time the Bible was written and who certain parts were written for (meaning the letters and the stage of life the people at that time were in.) Regularly Jesus used women in very important roles and he says we are all children of God. Women were not allowed to preach in those days. Doesn’t mean that times haven’t changed and they can’t today. I don’t think having women preach today is a sin or grounds for removal from a denomination. If we were in front of Jesus and asked him if women should or should not be accepted as pastors that he would say they are not allowed. Thanks for allowing me to also post my opinion.
Rick Warren's books have twisted the Bible out of context for years and the SB only now decides to call him out the subject of women's role in the church? Why wasn't he called out for watering down the Gospel of Christ? $$ ?? The Cross of Christ is the most important doctrine in Christianity,
I really like this topic. As someone who rededicated my life to God in my mid 20's, I did so listening to Joyce Meyers. The word is the word. She is a great teacher, and I always got the sense that she is submissive to her husband, but I do not feel she should lead a church. God uses many flawed people and circumstances to change people's lives, but again, we can not stray from God's word. It takes courage & wisdom to follow the word these days. I have been critical of some of the things I hear come out of the SBU, as well as the organization itself, but I agree with him on this.
Depends on what. As pastors,no. If they have e.g. an evangelism ministry, and it takes off, there's no obligation to give it up ro whatever man happens to join.
I am from an egalitarian church. However, I took notes on this episode, especially what he said about the Law. I think it is often misunderstood that we can just forget about the wisdom of the OT, but the OT is the foundation of what everything has been built upon for the NT. Good stuff.
It all goes back to Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. I suggest my short and free essay on her. In it you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors, by God Himself.
@@user-iz8np3vv4i That's not the right view of Deborah, a judge's role, and the book of Judges. *'Judges are not pastors'* "Pastor" means "shepherd" in Greek. Jesus, the Good Shepherd (John 10:11-18) established the importance of shepherding God's flick and the apostles and other qualified men (Titus 1:5-9, 1 Timothy 3:1-7, 1 Peter 5:1-4) are tasked with shepherding. So, saying _"you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors, by God Himself"_ isn't true at all. *'Authority of the king'* The book of Judges often says _"In those days there was no king in Israel"._ No king means no authority, leading to disobedience. *'Role of a judge'* Judges determine right and wrong. Just like us, in Christ (1 Corinthians 6:2-3), without authority. For example, in the US government, the king or 'executive branch' has authority, but the 'judicial branch' or judge upholds laws. *'Deborah as judge/prophetess NOT authority'* The book of Judges tells of Israel's punishment for disobeying God. Judges like Deborah (Judges 4) reminded Israel of God's word. Barak had authority, not Deborah. So, using Deborah to argue for female elders is wrong. The elders' standards (Titus 1:5-9, 1 Timothy 3:1-7, 1 Peter 5:1-4) remain unchanged.
The following proves you are correct. Old Covenant Baptism vs. New Covenant Baptism (water vs. Spirit) Water baptism was a part of the Old Covenant system of ritual washing. The Old Covenant priests had to wash before beginning their service in the temple. (Ex. 30:17-30) When Christ was water baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan River, He was under the Old Covenant system. He also only ate certain foods, and wore certain clothes, as prescribed by the 613 Old Covenant laws. Christ was water baptized by John and then received the Holy Spirit from heaven. The order is reversed in the New Covenant. A person receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion, and then believers often declare their conversion to their friends and family through a water baptism ceremony. Which baptism makes you a member of Christ’s Church? The New Covenant conversion process is described below. (Born-again) Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (A person must “hear” the Gospel, and “believe” the Gospel, and will then be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit.) Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (See Jer. 31:34 for the New Covenant promise, and 1 John 2:27 for the fulfillment) ============ Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says? What did Peter say below? Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water when they read the word "baptize" in the text. Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage? Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (See 1 Cor. 12:13) “baptize” KJV Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Water or Holy Spirit?, See Eph. 1-13.) Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (See Eph. 4:1-5) Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Old Covenant ----> New Covenant) How many people have been saved by the Old Covenant water baptism of John the Baptist? Who did John the Baptist say is the greatest Baptist that ever lived in Luke 3:16? What kind of New Covenant baptism comes from Christ? Hebrews 9:10 Old Covenant vs. New Covenant (CSB) They are physical regulations and only deal with food, drink, and various washings imposed until the time of the new order. (ESV) but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation. (ESV+) but deal only with R5food and drink and R6various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation. (Geneva) Which only stood in meates and drinkes, and diuers washings, and carnal rites, which were inioyned, vntill the time of reformation. (GW) These gifts and sacrifices were meant to be food, drink, and items used in various purification ceremonies. These ceremonies were required for the body until God would establish a new way of doing things. (KJV) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (KJV+) Which stood onlyG3440 inG1909 meatsG1033 andG2532 drinks,G4188 andG2532 diversG1313 washings,G909 andG2532 carnalG4561 ordinances,G1345 imposedG1945 on them untilG3360 the timeG2540 of reformation.G1357 (NKJV) concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. (NLT) For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies-physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established. (YLT) only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances-till the time of reformation imposed upon them
@dianem6951 Gal. 3 Verses 28 to 29 [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, ➡there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
@@dianem6951@dianem6951 Gal. 3 Verses 28 to 29 [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. ➡Diana: If you are pro woman pastors this verse supports your argument...if you are against woman pastors then this verse disproves your statement. Funny how that works. God Bless
@@Diana-xm1dm I’m not seeing the pastor part. What you are showing has to do with salvation. You are taking verses and twisting them to things that don’t apply. It’s 1 Timothy chapter 3 that applies to being a pastor. You are trying to cause confusion by not properly dividing the word. You are not applying 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. You just made it up and say it fits where it does not fit. You aren’t reading the words as they are written. Here is Isiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. This is just like the Laodicean church age. Women should never be a pastor. If any man is following a woman pastor they are wrong and extremely lazy and weak. In other words not a real Christian man serving God. Women can have a great impact for the Glory of God in many other ways though. We shouldn’t discount a woman’s value when they want to serve God.
Mike Winger has been doing a teaching series on many of the biblical passages used for complementarian/egalitarian arguments. It's been very interesting. He tries to be fair to both viewpoints, but he himself is complementarian.
I’m having to make the heartbreaking decision to leave the church that recently baptized me, because of their disobedience in this area. Our church is full of lovely, wonderful people and junior pastors. But I wish they would consider the hurt it causes to their church community when they choose to disobey the clear instruction of God. At the end of the day, GOD saved me, not my pastor. I am desperate to follow HIS word, not man’s whims and desires.
My concern with using 1 Timothy is that we don’t give the same weight to the entire chapter. Women wear pearls and gold and that’s deemed acceptable and not going against the Bible but female pastors are? How can we choose what to ascribe importance to? If we are taking 1 Tim 2:11-15 literally all of the chapter should be. It also said that women are saved through child rearing and we also know that not every women is called to marriage and not every married women can have children. Couldn’t it be that it was a letter detailing to a specific church or cultural environment where women were in total control over men? I’m having a hard time saying that 1 Tim is specifically saying that women pastors are sinful when the rest of the scriptures aren’t held to the same weight and aren’t taken literally. Because men also do not always pray with their hands lifted. It’s not that I am trying to put my own feelings and thoughts before the word of God, I want to know His will on this matter. But the push against women pastors is often spearheaded with the use of 1 Timothy but the application of 1 Timothy is not consistent which doesn’t make sense to me.
You are reading into the text. The text tells men to pray lifting up holy hands and not be angry or dispute. This is telling men that their weakness is their temper (angry/argumentative) but they should instead honor God through a life of holiness. Then women are told that they should not put their value in their appearance or material things. Women’s weakness is vanity. So the women are told to worship God with the appropriate good deeds which is modesty and good character. 1 Timothy 2:8-10 “Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”
Whoever has ears to hear: Elizabeth, mother of John was a priestess because she was a Levite. And, Mary was a Levite too. Deborah was a judge and prophetess because she was a Levite as well...
Mary's genealogy is given and she was from the tribe of Judah, not Levite. It is specifically stated in the book of Hebrews that Jesus was not a Levite but came from the tribe of Judah.
@@myrachtn3 Mary was from the tribe of Levi, she's Elizabeth's cousin and they're descendants of Aaron. Luke 1:5 New International Version The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold 5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.
@@myrachtn3 Luke 1:36-38 New Life Version 36 “See, your cousin Elizabeth, as old as she is, is going to give birth to a child. She was not able to have children before, but now she is in her sixth month. 37 For God can do all things.” 38 Then Mary said, “I am willing to be used of the Lord. Let it happen to me as you have said.” Then the angel went away from her.
Sean McDowell has a great conversation on his UA-cam channel that represents both sides with biblical grounds for each 😀 it’s good to hear from those who also love the Bible and have come to another conclusion! 😊
It seems that it is not “female pastors” dividing the SBC. Rather, it is the male pastors who are creating this division. They have chosen the mountain they want to die upon. This will not divide the SBC, rather it appears to be the final nail that seals the coffin. This difference is obviously more important for them than addressing abuse. It’s more important than disfellowshipping over false teaching. It is very interesting what fear, power and control can do, even in a denomination at large. So so sad.
What makes you think that there actually is a sex abuse crisis in the Southern Baptist denomination? Could you give me a list of senior pastors in the denomination who have been found guilty of sexual abuse?
When God created man he knew what He was doing, His intent was to have a people who would be worthy of an independent relationship with him, not that of the angels, individuals with the freedom to live solely for self but choose to live to glorify him. He patiently allowed mankind time to make bad (sinful) choices so they would have the opportunity to decide to learn from those errors knowing that while many would choose not to understand this others would firmly decide to follow Him. It's truly an act of God's love, fairness and graciousness that he sends his sunshine and rain into the lives of even those who despitefully use his blessings against him. It's important to remember that one day, according to God's perfect plan, He will usher in a new heaven and a new earth while casting those who act against him into outer darkness (let the reader interpret).
“For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner”.1 Timothy 2:13-14 The reasons given for women not to teach are not cultural reasons.1) Adam was formed first (still true today) 2) Eve was deceived (still true today)
It all goes back to Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. I suggest my short and free essay on her. In it you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors, by God Himself.
Got a suggestion to the production staff behind Allie's show. For excellent video and audio quality of both speakers, just like what they do in Jordan Peterson's videos, they can record the video and audio of the person Allie is interviewing at the interviewee's actual physical location so both Allie's and the interviewee's video and audio quality are excellent. I know there are logistical challenges with this setup (plus delayed airing), but if a conservative like Peterson can do this, I think we as Christians should also up our game. Just a suggestion. God bless. :-)
WhY IS the church & creation in the shape that it is within these days ? What was it that the Christ had said about the men of the organized church in his days on earth ? Why ? Who was it that held the stones ? What was written within the line drawn in the sand ?
We have a woman serving as our children's minister. She is sometimes referred to as Pastor (name) by some parents and when identified on our on-line intro slide. I'm trouble with this since I've been associated with the SBC since I was 6 years old (76 now, became a Christian at 13). I'm reluctant at bringing this up to our leadership. What should I do?
I absolutely agree that only men should be pastors! In my view, it correlates with the man being the head of the home. Sure, there are single heads of households in this world; however, we the church are not to be like the world. Women are gifted in bible truth and can be used to edify and encourage through teaching, but being the pastor over the church is the responsibility of men, directed by God. 😊
I was born and raised Southern Baptist. In my churches, I never saw this doctrine abused. However, after attending a non-denominational evangelical church, I have seen women advised to submit to and even "shunned" for not "submittimg" to an abusive husband. In a perfect world, yep, this would work. But the church is far from perfect. I believe Southern Baptists used to say that the Bible condoned slavery. Hmmm... I wish men did their job of pastoring so that women didn't feel the need to become pastors. Also, I haven't seen ANY "pastor" recently who actually PASTORS a church. Seems to me they mostly like to stand in front of a congregation, teach, and get paid very well. Oh, and build bigger and bigger unnecessary buildings. I wish it were not like this.
What I don’t understand is why the 4th commandment is disregarded. The only commandment that begins with “remember”, we’re told to by popular theologians to forget. 😒
No one is telling you to “forget it”. That is not being honest. Just like circumcision, the sabbath day is fulfilled in our trust and belief in Christ. We are not under the 10 commandments (the letters engraved in stone, the ministry of death, according to Paul), by the way. We are under the law of Christ as Paul states in 1 Cor. 9:20-21.
@@beckyfrechette4439 That’s entirely illogical, though, and biblically unsound. There is not one single verse that states “the Sabbath was fulfilled at the cross” nor that Sunday replaces Saturday. If you look at Bible history, Constantine instituted Sunday in place of Saturday about 600 YEARS after the death of Christ I get that it’s a popular teaching but it falls apart under scrutiny. To be Bible Christians we must keep all ten, not cherry pick.
There's an entire chapter, Hebrews 4. Just as the other parts of the Mosaic Law are fulfilled in Christ and replaced by a superior New Covenant reality, so is the Sabbath.
@@SeanusAurelius There were two sets of laws when it came to the ark of the covenant. The laws that governed were kept on the outside of the ark. The 10 commandments were kept inside the ark. Jesus fulfilled the laws that pointed to a Savior, that pointed to the cross. Saying that Jesus fulfilled the 10 commandments makes no sense. So, murder is now okay? Coveting is now fine? Adultery is no longer a sin? Don't cherry pick verses to make your case. The fact of the matter is that the change from Saturday to Sunday was made by Emperor Constantine when pagan Rome became papal Rome.
This is all so sad. Jesus came to have a relationship with us not all these different religions that believe different doctrines. One must follow the Bible which is God’s Word. Rick Warren has always been Biblically off the mark. We should focus on Jesus and spreading the Word of God. The sad thing is you all worry about a woman pastor but do you believe we were healed and made whole by the stripes of Jesus? 1 Peter 2:24. If not then explain why it is okay to cherry pick the Bible instead of heeding the full counsel of it?
Hmm… almost like there would be a use for a final authority on matters of division in the church, a magisterium perhaps 😂. I’m just giving you a hard time, I’m a convert to Catholicism from Baptist and I’m sure there’s lots of fun conversations to have there but I think we as a country have more pressing concerns right now.
"Pastor" is just Latin for "shepherd." Let's just use the words "shepherd," "elder," and "overseer" in English for men leading the church like the Bible does in Greek. Then there won't be this attachment or desire for the title of "pastor."
@@MsQ275 I'm saying use the biblical words for the roles of **men** in leading the church. The word "pastor," as used today, is not in the Bible; it's just the word "shepherd."
It used in such a way. Paul plainly lists the pastoral role as we know it today as being part of God's church government: "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some _pastors_ and teachers,(Eph. 4:11)". The Bible refers to them as shepherds in the First Testament because they're given the responsibility of leading a congregation, aka a flock.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 The English translation you are using is translating the Greek word "poimen" for "shepherd" to the Latin "pastor." In the Greek it literally says "shepherds" there in Ephesians 4:11 and would have been read that way. The English word "pastor" as used today is not in the Bible.
I guess I’m confused. Women are permitted and even commanded in the great commission to share the gospel to all but not from a pulpit in the building of a church- like the place from which they witness makes sharing the gospel sinful? Or are they saying that a woman cannot be in a decision making position because that’s deemed as having control over men? Is speaking God’s Word when sharing the gospel not speaking in and under the authority of Christ and thereby having authority in the Word? So basically a woman can teach the gospel, share their testimony, encourage their sisters and brothers in Christ - just not be in a place of power to make decisions? I don’t necessarily disagree with men only pastors but I’m confused as to what they consider authority over a man and how teaching scripture through a podcast to an audience of men is not leading or making decisions? Which I personally think is fine and don’t see as having power over men unless you consider the persuasion as authority. I don’t know. All I know is I’m now confused and I guess I’ll go to Jesus’ words to the Pharisees when they said He had a demon and Jesus pointed to the One getting the glory which was God the Father and not Himself with the encouragement to believe the works that He did - even if they couldn’t believe He was what He said He was- believe the works. Some said Jesus was “of God” because how could someone do those things if they were a sinner. And the blind man who was healed and then questioned repeatedly about how he was healed and who healed him said, “ I do not know Him or His name nor how He healed me- but what I do know is this that I was blind but now I see.” And also the warning that the church will be filled with leaders that are wolves in sheep clothing and that sounds scary and fearful but we were told that we would recognize them by their spirit- by the fruit- their deeds and so we were told to test every spirit. So there is a lot in the Bible about the spirit of a person, their works and the simplicity of the gospel. So all these other things are just so confusing when it comes to the great commission, witnessing for Jesus and helping people break free of the bondage of sin. I’ve read the Bible front to back several times and you get a fuller picture of God Almighty and His heart. He uses whomever He wills and the fruit and purpose is always the same- it glorifies God, it produces good fruit, it blesses and doesn’t curse. So I’ll just say I’m glad I don’t have desire to lead a church but I’m surely not going to be quiet if I’m in a place to lead a man to Christ because of fear it’s exerting authority over a man. And hopefully the love of Christ is not hindered over gender - whether a man refusing to hear a woman speak the Word of God because it comes from a female body or a woman dismissing the voice of the Holy Spirit because they are a woman and God wouldn’t lead them to speak into the life of a male. So I’m thinking, they mean just decision making position in a church, because clearly speaking God’s Word is not prohibited. Am I understanding it correctly?
That's a lot...& I apologize if you lost me there. The thing is women pastors is out of order. They can teach other women & children, but they can not be over the men. Remember God isn't the author of confusion. Why would He make the man the head at home & then go to church & have a woman over you?
I can’t read the whole thing right now, but I’ll just say, pastoring is not the same as being a missionary. I mean, you have to know, a pastor does a lot of things! So Im not sure how those two things are even compared. Second, technically, the command of great commission was given to the disciples.
@@beckyfrechette4439 If you don't have time to read "the whole thing", maybe come back later and take some time to read and respond. Because dismissing people by not listening to their questions or doubts and failing to responding adequately can have very bad consequences. I have several friends who've had many questions about their faith over the years, and people did just that. Dismiss them, tell them to just believe, and that it's God's will. Well, it turns out that they are now really struggling and some even stopped believing completely. Know the power that unanswered questions hold and your responsibility when it comes to this.
This is what the Bible says: “woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.” 1 Timothy 2. The reasons given in this passage are within the context of the church (It is not saying women shouldn’t share the gospel to unbelievers)
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. Complementarianism is a false doctrine that is in opposition to what God actually did. God appointed a woman as a Judge over Israel. There was no gender qualification to be a Judge, in the scriptures.
Proverbs 7 2 Keep my commandments, and LIVE; and my law as the apple of thine eye. Matthew 19: 16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do so that I may obtain ETERNAL LIFE?” 17. And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you want to enter LIFE, keep the commandments The Torah is referred to often in singular- commandment. John 12:50 And I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
single or man who has not been divorced (or practiced polygamy in the ancient world), above reproach, managing his own family well (treats his family right, raises his children to love the lord, children are not in rebellion to the word of God), a faithful steward, humble, gentle-tempered, sober, not greedy, self-controlled, hospitable, spiritually mature, and a good example to the rest of the church. Not every man can preach.
We are acquainted with a Ugandan young man there. It is a poor nation. He said South African homosexuals come to Uganda to recruit workers in S Africa. There is little job opportunities in Uganda. Sen. Cruz is wrong.
If the major argument for complementarians is that women should not become pastors because we should not exercise authority over men, then women should not become CEOs and leaders in various fields, right? If not, what about Church distinguishes it, and how do we know it is exclusively said for Church? This is a question I've been asking myself for years, so I'd really appreciate your response, or if you know of any books or reading material that discuss this.
It all goes back to Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. I suggest my short and free essay on her. In it you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors, by God Himself.
@@chadandersoh Essay on Deborah, the Judge and prophetess. (Revised May 2023) Before Paul we have her story. We don't know what Paul would have said about her. We have to read about her first and then try to understand Paul (if possible). This is what the people at the beginning of Christianity had to do. They knew the story of Deborah already. Deborah is either a meaningless exception or an important precedent, in the debate of whether men and women are spiritually equal. Before beginning, it should be noted that there is no scripture stating clearly or even hinting at, that Deborah was God's second choice. There was no man that rejected the call to be Judge, requiring a woman to take that place. ************************************************************* INTRODUCTION: Before God was rejected by Israel for the rulership of men, that is, kings, there were different 'seasons' so to speak. One of those seasons was the time of the Judges. ...but they have rejected Me from being King over them. Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; and they said to him, “Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint us a king to judge us like all the nations.” But the matter was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the Lord. And the Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people regarding all that they say to you, because they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being King over them. Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day-in that they have abandoned Me and served other gods-so they are doing to you as well. -excerpt 1 Samuel 8 A Judge at this time, was VERY different from a judge in our time. The Judge was over the nation of Israel. But not as a man, as King, or as a woman, as Queen, because God was not rejected as King as yet. God ruled Israel through the Judges. Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars? -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 KJV Major modern English translations like the NASB use the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people... [PASTOR - Origin: late Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French pastour, from Latin pastor ‘shepherd’.] In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Also: Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, and since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verses 9 and 10 KJV -God speaking to Nathan the prophet Finally: All the Judges were men, except one. Deborah. She was married, but her husband was not a Judge. HER JUDGING AUTHORITY here: Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel went up to her for judgment. -excerpt Judges 4 Deborah judged men and had the authority to execute, as some sins in the Old Covenant, such as murder, demanded the death penalty as the punishment. There was no appeal to Deborah's (a Judge's) verdict: ... you shall not turn aside from the word which they declare to you, to the right or the left. If a man rejected Deborah's decision, the penalty was execution: But the person who acts insolently by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the Lord your God, nor to the judge, that person shall die;... She used the Law, therefore scripture, when judging and instructing: In accordance with the terms of the law about which they instruct you... She had the same authority as a Levitical priest: So you shall come to the Levitical priests or the judge... Also of note, she judged the hardest cases in the nation. “If a case is too difficult for you to decide, between one kind of homicide or another, between one kind of lawsuit or another, and between one kind of assault or another, that are cases of dispute in your courts, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the Lord your God chooses. So you shall come to the Levitical priests or the judge who is in office in those days, and you shall inquire of them and they will declare to you the verdict. Then you shall act in accordance with the terms of the verdict which they declare to you from that place which the Lord chooses; and you shall be careful to act in accordance with everything that they instruct you to do. In accordance with the terms of the law about which they instruct you, and in accordance with the verdict which they tell you, you shall act; you shall not turn aside from the word which they declare to you, to the right or the left. But the person who acts insolently by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the Lord your God, nor to the judge, that person shall die; so you shall eliminate the evil from Israel. -excerpt Deuteronomy 17 ******************************** THE REASON GOD SENT HER here: ...the Lord was moved to pity... And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge and saved them from the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the Lord was moved to pity by their groaning because of those who tormented and oppressed them. -excerpt Judges 2 The sending of a Judge meant God was showing mercy to His people. It wasn't a judgment against them. Since Deborah was a woman, this scripture is sometimes used in error to describe her, in our time: My people! Their oppressors treat them violently, And women rule over them. My people! Those who guide you lead you astray And confuse the direction of your paths. -excerpt Isaiah 3 They are taking the prophetess Deborah and comparing her to Jezebel who murdered prophets. Has it not been reported to my master what I did when Jezebel killed the prophets of the Lord, that I hid a hundred prophets of the Lord... -excerpt 1 Kings 18 When a Judge died, THEN people were led astray. But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways. -excerpt Judges 2 THE AUTHORITY SHE HAD OVER THE COMMANDER OF THE ARMY here: Now she sent word and summoned Barak... She gave the order for the battle to begin that Israel won. Then Deborah said to Barak, “Arise! For this is the day on which the Lord has handed Sisera over to you... Before the battle began she prophesied that a woman would kill Sisera (the enemy commander). This happened, as Jael, a woman not part of the battle, killed Sisera. She said, “I will certainly go with you; however, the fame shall not be yours on the journey that you are about to take, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.” And: But Jael, Heber’s wife, took a tent peg and a hammer in her hand, and went secretly to him and drove the peg into his temple, and it went through into the ground; for he was sound asleep and exhausted. So he died. And behold, while Barak was pursuing Sisera, Jael came out to meet him and said to him, “Come, and I will show you the man whom you are seeking.” So he entered with her, and behold, Sisera was lying dead with the tent peg in his temple. So what were the results of this battle? And the Lord routed Sisera and all his chariots and all his army with the edge of the sword before Barak; and Sisera got down from his chariot and fled on foot. But Barak pursued the chariots and the army as far as Harosheth-hagoyim, and all the army of Sisera fell by the edge of the sword; not even one was left. Also: So God subdued Jabin the king of Canaan on that day before the sons of Israel. And the hand of the sons of Israel pressed harder and harder upon Jabin the king of Canaan, until they had eliminated Jabin the king of Canaan. -excerpts Judges 4 In Judges 5, most of the chapter is Deborah and Barak singing praises to God. The song lyrics are there. Final sentence of Judges 5: And the land was at rest for forty years. Obviously a great outcome. EXPLANATION OF GOD USING DEBORAH here: Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth... Prophets and prophetesses are anointed with the Holy Spirit as we know. The explanation of God using Deborah to judge men and being over the army is here: An anointing of the Holy Spirit is the anointing of a powerful masculine being. That anointing eclipses gender. FINAL THOUGHTS here: A woman anointed with the Holy Spirit can serve in any capacity in our time. Whatever valid title/position there is. To oppose this, is to oppose the Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit that was upon Deborah the prophetess and Judge. Deborah, the woman that "saved them from the hand of their enemies" by God's will.
Whoever has ears to hear: 1. Paul was talking about the The Riot in Ephesus Acts 19:23-41 which was actually instigated by Demetrius a male 2. Deuteronomy 18:1-2 New International Version 18 The Levitical priests-indeed, the whole tribe of Levi-are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the Lord, for that is their inheritance. 2 They shall have no inheritance among their fellow Israelites; the Lord is their inheritance, as he promised them. A tribe is made up of men an women.
You keep posting on here things that sound nice but aren't biblical. I would really encourage you to read Scripture and maybe speak with a Bible teacher. The law of Moses was clear that women could inherit land in their father's name if their father did not have sons (5 daughters of Zelophedad) BUT those women were instructed to marry within their tribe if they chose to marry so that if they married into a different tribe, they would not shift the inheritance from one tribe to another. Levites--who were unable to inherit land--were not included in these discussions of land/inheritance. When it came to the duties of the Levites, however, it was clear from Scripture that the men would be the ones performing the duties, and only unmarried daughters (still under their father's authority) could partake of the priest's allotment of the sacrifices, but only sons could eat of the sin offering on the Day of Atonement.
@@myrachtn3 what is a female rabbi called? There's nothing in the Torah that impedes women priests Genesis 5:2 Complete Jewish Bible 2 he created them male and female; he blessed them and called them Adam [humankind, man] on the day they were created. Gal. 3 Verses 28 to 29 [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
@@myrachtn3 2 Samuel 20:16-22 New King James Version 16 Then a wise woman cried out from the city, “Hear, hear! Please say to Joab, ‘Come nearby, that I may speak with you.’ ” 17 When he had come near to her, the woman said, “Are you Joab?” He answered, “I am.” Then she said to him, “Hear the words of your maidservant.” And he answered, “I am listening.” 18 So she spoke, saying, “They used to talk in former times, saying, ‘They shall surely seek guidance at Abel,’ and so they would end disputes. 19 I am among the peaceable and faithful in Israel. You seek to destroy a city and a mother in Israel. Why would you swallow up the inheritance of the Lord?” 20 And Joab answered and said, “Far be it, far be it from me, that I should swallow up or destroy! 21 That is not so. But a man from the mountains of Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri by name, has raised his hand against the king, against David. Deliver him only, and I will depart from the city.” So the woman said to Joab, “Watch, his head will be thrown to you over the wall.” 22 Then the woman in her wisdom went to all the people. And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri, and threw it out to Joab. Then he blew a trumpet, and they withdrew from the city, every man to his tent. So Joab returned to the king at Jerusalem.
US and every civilized country should leave Uganda alone I know where these criticisms are going to lead they are going to want to sanction Uganda and they should just leave them alone they have been pushing them to push the LGBT agenda and they don't want to
Women should teach women and children.... not men. I think the only context this would be helpful is if it was a married couple teaching a mixed group.
@@prudentpennyBut where is the Biblical basis for even that? I have a children’s ministry pastor in my church but she is still called Pastor. Not saying it shouldn’t be allowed because I’m clearly ok with it.
It seems women are speaking up for themselves. Why would they do that? What are they not receiving that perhaps they need to receive? Are they under appreciated for the work they do? Something else? Before blaming women for what they’re asking, why not pray abt why they’re asking and not receiving. “Lord what is needed here? Is this what you desire? Are we missing or misinterpreting something? What is the root? Thank you, Lord. Amen”
There is a pro lgbt commercial before this video. Even Google’s algorithm wouldn’t do that. It’s silly and immature to do this before a Christian video
Not that I think its right, since all scripture is "God breathed", but I can imagine someone parsing Paul's words--"I (Paul, personally) don't allow a woman to have authority over a man"--but that Jesus never said that. Its the same old liberal theologian playbook--"Paul said/Jesus said"---where they try to pit the two against each other. Having said that, there are places in Paul's letters where he prefaces what he is going to say with'--"this is just me talking"..
" Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."-Rom. 1:32. That's New Testament Ted!
The best preachers of The S.B.C. are the female speakers of Women Missionary Union of The Southern Baptist Convention. I have being in the sending missionaries dedication services at Glorieta N.M. and Ridgcrest in multiple times and more than that the International Mission Board traditionally has ordained Women Missionaries before sending them overseas. Lottie Moon and Annie Armstrong are probably the most known cases.
Hello Sister Allie! I was wondering if you have an email. I have a question that I cant seem to get answered. I agree with the word of God completely. However this particular thing I cannot find in scripture! Maybe it's the interpretation. Well thank you so much for sharing what you learn with us. God Bless!
I saw a video on TikTok of a gay “pastor” who decorated with their various flags and had unisex restrooms and preached from The Message and attended a pride parade and told people to support Flamy Grant. I saw a video of a lesbian “pastor” wearing a rainbow flag draped around her.
“...because we’re not Jewish people worshiping with Jewish customs”, ugh, that is NOT why we are not under old covenant law! This is why so many end up in the Torah movement, because pastors don’t adequately explain these things! Sorry, off topic, but even in the couple seconds he had, he could have at least said those things have served their purpose as they are fulfilled in Christ.
As a stubborn, independent, head-strong woman; truth is truth & I never want to bend it to get my way. The Bible is very clear about the roles of men & women. My flesh doesn't like it but my spirit delights in truth & I love God's ways, as I believe He wants what is best for me. So I choose to trust Him.
It all goes back to Deborah. Men and women are perfectly
equal spiritually. I suggest my short and free essay on her.
In it you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors,
by God Himself.
Amen, Sister! I taught marshal arts & worked with men o e on one for a good share of my life. It is my belief that The Holy Scriptures absolutely are the infallible Word of God, not to be challenged by man or woman. So I, too, choose to trust Him!
Took the words right out of m my mouth. I’ve never liked to be told I can or can’t do something. I think it’s great that women are in politics and involved in the church (especially leading other women) but I don’t agree with women pastoring churches.
@@samanthakwait8782
Since Deborah was a Judge, she
was a pastor. That according to God
Himself in Chronicles.
My essay on her is short and free,
should you wish a study.
I don't believe in a 2-tiered priesthood
as you do.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood...
-excerpt 1 Peter 2
@user-iz8np3vv4i woman are not called to preach, you can cut your hair off like a man and wear pants like one, but you're just spitting in the face of God, not preaching the word of God.
That part!
What does the Bible says PERIOD!
I love the Word of God.
@Whathappened154 said "That part!
What does the Bible says PERIOD!
I love the Word of God."
What and to whom are you asking?
Love Pastor Ascol. If anyone hasn't seen his cinedoc By What Standard, you need to. Eye opening.
Yes, for real
We aren't supposed to change the Bible to fit the culture. This is a tale as old as time. The Bible is supposed to change us.
I believe in the biblical roles for men and women as outlined in the bible. I feel much of the degradation we see in society today of the family in particular can be partly traced back to how we have strayed from the roles god has instilled in us (some would call them instincts) due to apathy, the pace of society, distractions, lies, etc. I would not say it is a forgone conclusion but I have noticed a fair amount of churches that have women as pastors frequently venture down paths other than the gospel and will be heavily concerned with social justice issues, environmental issues, and are LGBT affirming. I am male and have nothing against women but it is almost as if having a female pastor can at times be like a trojan horse to start to sneak other doctrines and false theologies into a church.
You are 💯 correct. I’m a woman and I will not attend any church that has women pastoring the church. The reason why is because that is the first step in deconstructing the faith. If a church rejects God’s order, then they will also reject other things that are clearly stated in the Bible.
It was through the feminist movement of the 60s-70s that women started leaving their kids to go work, women started murdering their unborn children, divorce skyrocketed, and liberalism became the new norm. When men allow women to take the leadership role that God gave them everything falls apart.
Exactly right, and i am a woman.
@@dioltlw3144 We are all Adam.
The Word of God will not contradict Himself.
It's wonderful to hear that the Southern Baptist Church has made the descisiong to be faithful to God's word!!
Tom Aschol, thank you for contending earnestly for the faith once for all delivered.
Loved this podcast! Well done Allie. They only thing I would like to say on the beginning subject is that I find that when women get angry and offended about not being told they can be Pastors, there's a pride issue at the heart. God is so good and every commandment and decree He gives is for our good so instead of standing in defiance, try standing in gratitude❤.
Amen!
That was a common argument used for slavery too "anyone slave who is opposed, just needs to recognize their role in society"🙂 I used to think how you feel too, until I realized my pride was the issue. There are actually very good biblical arguments for women teaching and pastors - anyone who says it's "clear", hasn't studied the Greek or early church on this issue! I encourage you to not judge other people's hearts on this issue, and learn to see this issue for what it is. Complex!
@@abeautifulmoment2714 First, equating image-bearing to gender roles is a flawed comparison.
'Definitions matter'
In Greek, "pastor" or ποιμήν (poimēn) means shepherd. It relates to leading God's people as per Acts 20:28 and 1 Peter 5:2. The Bible also uses terms like "elders" and "overseers" to denote authority. Clear qualifications for these roles are outlined in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9. Christ's words to Peter in Matthew 16:17-19 and John 21:15-17 assert that Church authority belongs to Christ, and these roles serve His word. But, women do not have authority in His Church (1 Timothy 2:12).
'Function vs. title'
The debate often centers on function vs. title. If someone claims a title, they're also stating they fulfill its function. For women to label themselves as pastors implies they are qualified to fulfill that function, which the Scripture clearly disputes.
This issue isn't complex or a matter of interpretation. The core problem lies in a lack of humility and the questioning of God's word. From early church history to recent times, women as elders/pastors was never accepted as it contradicts Scripture. This "movement" aligns more with worldly trends than God's word.
@csimpsonjtd While I wish I could debate you at length on this, I don't see how it will be very fruitful and I just dont have a lot of time - so I will respond quickly. I will say I don't think it's "clear" in scripture at all - the use of the Greek words for "kephale" (Ephesians 5:22) and "authenteo" (1 Timothy 2:12) as well as looking at the lack of gendered language in the Greek for the qualifications of overseers in Titus and Timothy are just the beginning of the problems. "Man of one woman" or "husband of one wife" (depending on your translation) is the only gendered language in the Greek and it was often on women's tombstones - it just means "faithful". I recommend looking into these scholars:
1) Philip Payne
2) Terran Williams
3) Marg Mowzco
4) Lucy Peppiat
5) Sandra Glahn
6) Nijay Gupta
I also recommend diving into early church history too. You will be surprised at what you find.
In addition, the dominant theology regarding gender that was held by the church for 1500 years was that women were inferior in ontology, and therefore unqualified. It's only in recent history that the idea that women are not inferior and still capable has been accepted. Then again, slavery has been accepted as "clearly biblical" by the church widely at many points as well - (especially where I am in the U.S.). Believe it or not, that is the entire reason the SBC is its own denomination😬 I wonder what else they could be wrong about? Anyway, many blessings to you!
@@abeautifulmoment2714 My goal isn't to debate, but to reflect God's clear word but if we were having a debate then the burden of proof lies with you. "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome." (1 John 5:3) True followers find joy and rest in His word, not confliction and burden.
'Textual criticism'
Regardless of "lack of gendered language in Greek", ample proof text supports man's authority. Egalitarianism wasn't an orthodox Church stance. Even with hundreds of historians favoring complementarianism view, a few dissents aren't authoritative. Women's value in Church isn't in question, but their authority over men is. Scripture is clear on this.
'Man stealing'
As a black man in a former pro-slavery state, I see slavery's impact on our country and "race" relations. Chattel slavery was never "clearly biblical". The Bible addresses indentured servitude with set constraints on treatment. Man-stealing and dehumanizing servitude were never permitted by God. Yet these were practiced in the antebellum south, Africa, and worldwide. Some even created a slave Bible to falsely claim chattel slavery was biblical. Placing this solely on the SBC and ignoring historical truth is dishonest. US evangelicals recognize the SBC's sinful past with slavery. However, no one alive today bears that guilt, and the SBC has made significant changes to its bylaws. Comparing egalitarianism to slavery is like comparing same-sex relations to civil rights when it comes to acceptance.
This isn't a defense of the SBC, but of biblical authority, sufficiency, and accuracy, often distorted by "progressive theologians" to fit modern views.
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8) "so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11)
Overall, I appreciate the respectful dialogue despite our disagreement. Grace and peace to you.
Great episode!!
Some are touting Deborah, Priscilla and Dorcas but nowhere in Scripture do you see these women being set apart for pastors. When the Lord Jesus sent the disciples out, the women were not included. That doesn’t mean He didn’t use the women. God’s ideal is for men to be in the place of leadership.
I've been having this conversation with different people also.
I absolutely agree with what you're saying. It's lining up with Scripture.
I love that he said that Scripture interprets itself. How true is that.
If that was true. There wouldn’t be so many interpretations.
Given the rise of kjv o oy we can see that isn’t remotely true because each new version provides a totally different interpretation
@loadz03 Not all versions of the Bible are created equal. That's why good Bible scolars need to know Greek and Hebrew to see what each word means in it's original language.
@@loadz03 'translation vs interpretation'
We translate, not interpret, from original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic. God alone interprets His word (2 Peter 1:20-21).
'word for word vs thought for thought'
Translations are either "word for word" or "thought for thought". The first is direct, the second summarizes. Summaries can be risky as they can add extra thoughts to the Scripture, changing the original focus.
@@Madcow7777 Especially the John MacArthur study Bible. He made a video that says a person can get the mark of the beast and still go to heaven, yikes.
I really appreciate your show, your honesty about the issues, and your clear understanding of God's word. Excellent job
i just wish they would take into consideration the cultural differences that existed back then. For example-Women were not considered important, but Jesus did. So perhaps the scripture is exactly what is meant about a pastor and that it does apply to males & females. With the example of Adam & Eve,-Adam was right next to Eve, he knew what satan was saying was wrong and didn't dispute it when Eve gave3 him the fruit. . Adam could have said no, He knew this was wrong. He should have said, " I'm not eating it."So that argument doesn't hold water
Thank you. This is a vital topic and thankful that you're addressing it. I've been teaching and writing Bible studies for thirty years plus years, and I wholeheartedly agree with the role of pastor is reserved for men.
I’m glad you had Pastor Ascol on. I have respect for his work in holding the SBC to truth. ‘ By What Standard’, book and the film are worth it!
Good topic. Been struggling with the issue of female pastors recently. Shoutout to the relate-a-bros
1st Timothy 2:12 says it clearly and it amazes me how this verse is bent for egoes!
Love Pastor Ascol and had a privilege to attend one of his Conferences in Cape Coral, FL. 💗🙏🙏
Excellent podcast. Very respectful. Well done.
Too many men, including pastors, live more like patriarchs than complimentarians. If they really believed that our roles were complimentary this wouldn’t be the problem that it is. Thanks to Tom for presenting a truly complimentary approach.
Rick was once my pastor and I was often blown away by his joy, insight, and courage. That said, I am so saddened to hear about this disagreement. Had this happened while I was at Saddleback, I would have had no choice but to move on, and that would have been a gut wrenching experience. So, I really feel for and pray for Rick's flock...
He’s turning woke. He had no problem with the government shutting down church services during covid while not acknowledging the hypocrisy of allowing BLM “peaceful protests.”
This is such an incredible watch! Thank you both for y’all’s wealth of knowledge and complete love and passion for the Lord and His Word! 🙏🏼💛
this is a much needed episode!! i love the Bible 🙏🏽💖
Pastor Ascol is so wise! Love him! He’s such a treasure. Thank you for having this conversation with him. I appreciate your show, Allie Beth.
This Pastor is completely right. It is not that hard to follow the simple and basic instructions given in the Bible. But man continually insists in re writing the Bible to suit their sinful desires.
The thing is elders are to be selected from within a congregation not hired from without. They can have help from outside to do this. This problem with female pastors has a lot of connections with the development of the career track approach that modern seminaries have fallen into. Elders need to show having a managing role in a home. Seen too many coming out of college going to seminary then going to be a youth minister in a church. That person is not biblically qualified either. No experience managing a home, not qualified...male or female.
Thank you for this episode with Pastor Ascol.
Allie, I am a 60 year old (prior) women’s ministry leader who left a charismatic church for reasons of theological disparity on egalitarian vs. complemenarian issues.however, in the 15 years in a strictly complementarin church, I have seen more authoritarian abuse, male power differential used to exploit women, and a non ending diatribe about women submission and lockdown on women leadership- mainly pastoral, but definitely diminishing women. They say equal in value, but don’t celebrate or empower it.
Why are we not seeing complentarian voices ALSO driving home the Bible’s clear instruction to men? To husbands, fathers, and leaders? Namely, teaching and upholding the servant leader responsibilities ALSO clearly taught in scripture? I am not merely talking about my local church, but the complementarian churches at large.
Men like Bill Gothard, are major generational influencers in a cultural climate that claims to support gender equality but functionally devalues women, holds them accountable for mens sexual sin, and then sentences them to lifelong “servitude” and call it suffering for the will of God.
If I did not know the word of God myself I could easily see why egalitarian theology interpretation seems the only path for women.
Pastors need to be policing their own instead of dying on preverbal hill supposedly to protect the sanctity of Gods word and His church.
Darby Strickland has exposed the HUGE issue of abuse in the congregations at the hands of men in her book “is it abuse.”
If you haven’t read this book you should. This is a much bigger cancer in the faith community.
Also, this pastor says “qualified” men ONLY are fit for pastoral leadership? Police that. That alone would change everything…
Any teacher is held to a higher standard, as we see in James 3v1. Unqualified men in eldership are not an excuse for females to take those roles. The church needs to discipline any clearly unqualified elder.
Complementarianism
That false and confusing teaching, that states Christian women are less than
Christian men in a spiritual way, but they really aren't, but they really are.
The complementarian teaching prohibits a Christian woman from holding
certain positions in a church. They can't be elders neither can
they teach men. So why is that?
The false teaching makes it clear that the priesthood of the New Covenant
is tiered. There is a hierarchy. Those that are higher, the men, can be in
leadership positions, like elder. They can teach other men. Those in the
lower tier can not be in leadership positions, like elder. They are prohibited
from teaching men, because the men are in the higher tier. It wouldn't make
any sense.
A new believer is automatically assigned their level, higher or lower,
at the moment of salvation, as a birthright. Their gender determines
their tier. A Christian can not move to a higher or lower tier.
A Christian that is in the lower tier (woman) is not allowed to
complain of the tier she was placed in. That would be sin, because
God made her a woman by His choice. She should accept and also
embrace her position in the lower tier.
A church, is either a group of Christian men or a group of Christian men and women.
A church can never be a group of Christian women, because it would be
a group of only those in the lower tier. It would have no elders.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
-excerpt 1 Peter 2
Since the teaching states that women are spiritually inferior to men, but
they aren't, but they are, when did that start?
But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a wrongdoer.
-excerpt 1 Timothy 2
It started with the first woman. She was deceived, and sinned because of it. So we
have a teaching that accepts that men and women are fallen beings. Both genders
are sinful by nature. However women are different. They are lacking the ability
that men have to judge if some situation, some concept or teaching is sinful. This
inability was passed down from Eve to all women. It remains to this day. A woman
in our time was 'lacking' from birth, even from the womb.
So what can be done? Nothing according to Complementarianism. That is because
an anointing of that powerful masculine being called the Holy Spirit, is just not
sufficient. Even the Holy Spirit can not elevate even one Christian woman to the
spiritually superior level of a Christian man.
Mike Winger has an 11 part women in ministry teaching on his UA-cam and podcasts… spoiler alert he’s complementarian but does such a great job showing both sides and scripture.
The problem is, there is only _1_ correct side: the position God takes. If a person opposes that position, they're not really interested in anything God has to say. Contrary to what a lot of "Christians" may think, God sees it as a black and white issue because it is. Anyone whose will is not in line with His own is indeed working against Him and calling Him a liar like Satan does.
That's true, but not all the egalitarian arguments are bad, nor the egalitarian ones good. It's a good series and well worthwhile.
Can someone post the link of the video. Would like to watch it
Here’s part 1- there’s 11.
m.ua-cam.com/video/3HQSlQLYQsE/v-deo.html&pp=ygUdTWlrZSB3aW5nZXIgd29tZW4gaW4gbWluaXN0cnk%3D
Wow. I have never thought that Adam's response should have been to ask God to kill him for Eve's sins. What a powerful image. Thank you Jesus for taking my sins and dying for them. Thank you Pastor for this awesome picture. What love Jesus has for us.
This was an EXCELLENT episode.
I too as a christian don't believe women should be Pastors. My church organization is doing that now, especially in the black churches. I will not go to a church that has a woman pastor. I have no problem women teaching but they cannot be ordained
you need to leave a church that ignores the Bible.
I had that too. But actually ghe bible says a woman cannot have authority over a man or teach men. So I now churches where they have woman pastors. But they only have authority over women only ministries and only teach women. So I think that is fine tho. But women teaching men is a sin actually and a lack of spiritually 1 Cor 14:33-37
I used to be a part of a very large southern Baptist church and heard this all of my life. Then I moved to the Midwest and became a part of a mega Lutheran church that does employee female pastors. This was one of the topics. Their argument is that we need to take into context the time the Bible was written and who certain parts were written for (meaning the letters and the stage of life the people at that time were in.) Regularly Jesus used women in very important roles and he says we are all children of God. Women were not allowed to preach in those days. Doesn’t mean that times haven’t changed and they can’t today. I don’t think having women preach today is a sin or grounds for removal from a denomination. If we were in front of Jesus and asked him if women should or should not be accepted as pastors that he would say they are not allowed. Thanks for allowing me to also post my opinion.
Blessings Everyone !!!
Rick Warren's books have twisted the Bible out of context for years and the SB only now decides to call him out the subject of women's role in the church? Why wasn't he called out for watering down the Gospel of Christ? $$ ?? The Cross of Christ is the most important doctrine in Christianity,
Amen !
Satan wanted God’s job, too, and lead the rebellion against God.
I really like this topic. As someone who rededicated my life to God in my mid 20's, I did so listening to Joyce Meyers. The word is the word. She is a great teacher, and I always got the sense that she is submissive to her husband, but I do not feel she should lead a church. God uses many flawed people and circumstances to change people's lives, but again, we can not stray from God's word. It takes courage & wisdom to follow the word these days. I have been critical of some of the things I hear come out of the SBU, as well as the organization itself, but I agree with him on this.
women are good at a lot of things but i think they should not attempt to LEAD men - ever
...as pastors.
Depends on what. As pastors,no. If they have e.g. an evangelism ministry, and it takes off, there's no obligation to give it up ro whatever man happens to join.
@@beckyfrechette4439In marriages too. It throws off the natural and biological order and creates discord between the sexes.
I am from an egalitarian church. However, I took notes on this episode, especially what he said about the Law. I think it is often misunderstood that we can just forget about the wisdom of the OT, but the OT is the foundation of what everything has been built upon for the NT. Good stuff.
AAannnndddd with this, the SBC becomes even more irrelevant.
@@kjmav10135 I don't understand your comment. Is this in regard to what I said?
It all goes back to Deborah. Men and women are perfectly
equal spiritually. I suggest my short and free essay on her.
In it you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors,
by God Himself.
@@user-iz8np3vv4i That's not the right view of Deborah, a judge's role, and the book of Judges.
*'Judges are not pastors'*
"Pastor" means "shepherd" in Greek. Jesus, the Good Shepherd (John 10:11-18) established the importance of shepherding God's flick and the apostles and other qualified men (Titus 1:5-9, 1 Timothy 3:1-7, 1 Peter 5:1-4) are tasked with shepherding. So, saying _"you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors, by God Himself"_ isn't true at all.
*'Authority of the king'*
The book of Judges often says _"In those days there was no king in Israel"._ No king means no authority, leading to disobedience.
*'Role of a judge'*
Judges determine right and wrong. Just like us, in Christ (1 Corinthians 6:2-3), without authority. For example, in the US government, the king or 'executive branch' has authority, but the 'judicial branch' or judge upholds laws.
*'Deborah as judge/prophetess NOT authority'*
The book of Judges tells of Israel's punishment for disobeying God. Judges like Deborah (Judges 4) reminded Israel of God's word. Barak had authority, not Deborah. So, using Deborah to argue for female elders is wrong. The elders' standards (Titus 1:5-9, 1 Timothy 3:1-7, 1 Peter 5:1-4) remain unchanged.
@@user-iz8np3vv4i curious about the bible verse that states that?
Scripture interprets scripture! Loved this episode.
The following proves you are correct.
Old Covenant Baptism vs. New Covenant Baptism (water vs. Spirit)
Water baptism was a part of the Old Covenant system of ritual washing. The Old Covenant priests had to wash before beginning their service in the temple. (Ex. 30:17-30) When Christ was water baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan River, He was under the Old Covenant system. He also only ate certain foods, and wore certain clothes, as prescribed by the 613 Old Covenant laws. Christ was water baptized by John and then received the Holy Spirit from heaven. The order is reversed in the New Covenant. A person receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion, and then believers often declare their conversion to their friends and family through a water baptism ceremony. Which baptism makes you a member of Christ’s Church?
The New Covenant conversion process is described below. (Born-again)
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(A person must “hear” the Gospel, and “believe” the Gospel, and will then be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit.)
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(See Jer. 31:34 for the New Covenant promise, and 1 John 2:27 for the fulfillment)
============
Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says?
What did Peter say below?
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water when they read the word "baptize" in the text.
Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?
Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (See 1 Cor. 12:13)
“baptize” KJV
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Water or Holy Spirit?, See Eph. 1-13.)
Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (See Eph. 4:1-5)
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Old Covenant ----> New Covenant)
How many people have been saved by the Old Covenant water baptism of John the Baptist?
Who did John the Baptist say is the greatest Baptist that ever lived in Luke 3:16? What kind of New Covenant baptism comes from Christ?
Hebrews 9:10 Old Covenant vs. New Covenant
(CSB) They are physical regulations and only deal with food, drink, and various washings imposed until the time of the new order.
(ESV) but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.
(ESV+) but deal only with R5food and drink and R6various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.
(Geneva) Which only stood in meates and drinkes, and diuers washings, and carnal rites, which were inioyned, vntill the time of reformation.
(GW) These gifts and sacrifices were meant to be food, drink, and items used in various purification ceremonies. These ceremonies were required for the body until God would establish a new way of doing things.
(KJV) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
(KJV+) Which stood onlyG3440 inG1909 meatsG1033 andG2532 drinks,G4188 andG2532 diversG1313 washings,G909 andG2532 carnalG4561 ordinances,G1345 imposedG1945 on them untilG3360 the timeG2540 of reformation.G1357
(NKJV) concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
(NLT) For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies-physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established.
(YLT) only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances-till the time of reformation imposed upon them
Why would a church ever want a woman pastor? Aren’t there any real Bible believing men in the church? Where are they?
Yes...where are they? I think the women ran them off.
@dianem6951 Gal. 3 Verses 28 to 29 [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, ➡there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
@@Diana-xm1dm
What does that have to do with what I posted?
@@dianem6951@dianem6951 Gal. 3 Verses 28 to 29 [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
➡Diana: If you are pro woman pastors this verse supports your argument...if you are against woman pastors then this verse disproves your statement. Funny how that works.
God Bless
@@Diana-xm1dm
I’m not seeing the pastor part. What you are showing has to do with salvation.
You are taking verses and twisting them to things that don’t apply.
It’s 1 Timothy chapter 3 that applies to being a pastor. You are trying to cause confusion by not properly dividing the word.
You are not applying 2 Timothy 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.
You just made it up and say it fits where it does not fit.
You aren’t reading the words as they are written.
Here is Isiah 3:12
As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
This is just like the Laodicean church age.
Women should never be a pastor. If any man is following a woman pastor they are wrong and extremely lazy and weak. In other words not a real Christian man serving God.
Women can have a great impact for the Glory of God in many other ways though. We shouldn’t discount a woman’s value when they want to serve God.
Mike Winger has been doing a teaching series on many of the biblical passages used for complementarian/egalitarian arguments. It's been very interesting. He tries to be fair to both viewpoints, but he himself is complementarian.
Winger was rebutted. Google it. He was offered dialogue by the authors but he declined
I’m having to make the heartbreaking decision to leave the church that recently baptized me, because of their disobedience in this area. Our church is full of lovely, wonderful people and junior pastors. But I wish they would consider the hurt it causes to their church community when they choose to disobey the clear instruction of God. At the end of the day, GOD saved me, not my pastor. I am desperate to follow HIS word, not man’s whims and desires.
Not sure what you are saying. Deborah, since she was a Judge,
was a pastor/shepherd.
My concern with using 1 Timothy is that we don’t give the same weight to the entire chapter. Women wear pearls and gold and that’s deemed acceptable and not going against the Bible but female pastors are? How can we choose what to ascribe importance to? If we are taking 1 Tim 2:11-15 literally all of the chapter should be. It also said that women are saved through child rearing and we also know that not every women is called to marriage and not every married women can have children. Couldn’t it be that it was a letter detailing to a specific church or cultural environment where women were in total control over men? I’m having a hard time saying that 1 Tim is specifically saying that women pastors are sinful when the rest of the scriptures aren’t held to the same weight and aren’t taken literally. Because men also do not always pray with their hands lifted. It’s not that I am trying to put my own feelings and thoughts before the word of God, I want to know His will on this matter. But the push against women pastors is often spearheaded with the use of 1 Timothy but the application of 1 Timothy is not consistent which doesn’t make sense to me.
You are reading into the text. The text tells men to pray lifting up holy hands and not be angry or dispute. This is telling men that their weakness is their temper (angry/argumentative) but they should instead honor God through a life of holiness. Then women are told that they should not put their value in their appearance or material things. Women’s weakness is vanity. So the women are told to worship God with the appropriate good deeds which is modesty and good character.
1 Timothy 2:8-10
“Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”
What I don’t understand is people act like this is a commandment from God, when it’s not.
@@flamethrower3959 It’s The Word of God. Yes it must be followed.
@@Romans6_23 Yet, nowhere does it say that this is what God commanded or said to do.
@@flamethrower3959 It says it in The Bible. That’s why it’s there.
It’s plainly stated in the Bible
Amen!
"Truth matters."
Rick sold his soul to the WEF
Is this rhetoric or do you know something?
@@AbbaJoy1 m.ua-cam.com/video/bQL7bacD6g4/v-deo.html
Whoever has ears to hear:
Elizabeth, mother of John was a priestess because she was a Levite. And, Mary was a Levite too. Deborah was a judge and prophetess because she was a Levite as well...
Mary's genealogy is given and she was from the tribe of Judah, not Levite. It is specifically stated in the book of Hebrews that Jesus was not a Levite but came from the tribe of Judah.
@@myrachtn3 Mary was from the tribe of Levi, she's Elizabeth's cousin and they're descendants of Aaron.
Luke 1:5
New International Version
The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold
5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.
@@myrachtn3 Luke 1:36-38
New Life Version
36 “See, your cousin Elizabeth, as old as she is, is going to give birth to a child. She was not able to have children before, but now she is in her sixth month. 37 For God can do all things.” 38 Then Mary said, “I am willing to be used of the Lord. Let it happen to me as you have said.” Then the angel went away from her.
Sean McDowell has a great conversation on his UA-cam channel that represents both sides with biblical grounds for each 😀
it’s good to hear from those who also love the Bible and have come to another conclusion! 😊
The rock cut without hands crush all powers. Its everlasting word will outlive every opinion.
I love how mentioned his wife and GRANDKIDS, but not his kids 😆😆😆. That will 100% be my husband one day! Lol
Pastor Ascol did mention his 5 daughters and 1 son @30min. Such a great man of God, Pastor & Advocate for Truth💕
I loved that too 😂❤❤
@@katieramsey1359 - Cause the Grand-babies! ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️🙏🏻
It seems that it is not “female pastors” dividing the SBC. Rather, it is the male pastors who are creating this division.
They have chosen the mountain they want to die upon. This will not divide the SBC, rather it appears to be the final nail that seals the coffin.
This difference is obviously more important for them than addressing abuse. It’s more important than disfellowshipping over false teaching. It is very interesting what fear, power and control can do, even in a denomination at large. So so sad.
Great, go form an egalitarian denomination that manages not to turn liberal within one generation, and prove your case.
What makes you think that there actually is a sex abuse crisis in the Southern Baptist denomination? Could you give me a list of senior pastors in the denomination who have been found guilty of sexual abuse?
When God created man he knew what He was doing, His intent was to have a people who would be worthy of an independent relationship with him, not that of the angels, individuals with the freedom to live solely for self but choose to live to glorify him. He patiently allowed mankind time to make bad (sinful) choices so they would have the opportunity to decide to learn from those errors knowing that while many would choose not to understand this others would firmly decide to follow Him. It's truly an act of God's love, fairness and graciousness that he sends his sunshine and rain into the lives of even those who despitefully use his blessings against him.
It's important to remember that one day, according to God's perfect plan, He will usher in a new heaven and a new earth while casting those who act against him into outer darkness (let the reader interpret).
Interesting topic
“For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner”.1 Timothy 2:13-14
The reasons given for women not to teach are not cultural reasons.1) Adam was formed first (still true today) 2) Eve was deceived (still true today)
It all goes back to Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. I suggest my short and free essay on her. In it you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors, by God Himself.
Somebody needs to let Warren know that the WEF’s perspective isn’t the same as careful exegesis.
Dear sister Allie, you may like to read," the inescapable love of God"by Thomas Talbot
Even tho Eve ate the fruit first Adam gets blamed for it. I think that shows the responsibility that goes with leadership.
Got a suggestion to the production staff behind Allie's show. For excellent video and audio quality of both speakers, just like what they do in Jordan Peterson's videos, they can record the video and audio of the person Allie is interviewing at the interviewee's actual physical location so both Allie's and the interviewee's video and audio quality are excellent. I know there are logistical challenges with this setup (plus delayed airing), but if a conservative like Peterson can do this, I think we as Christians should also up our game. Just a suggestion. God bless. :-)
Not sure Jordan Peterson is necessarily conservative.
Amen Allie.
WhY IS the church & creation in the shape that it is within these days ? What was it
that the Christ had said about the men of the organized church in his days on earth ? Why ?
Who was it that held the stones ?
What was written within the line drawn in the sand ?
We have a woman serving as our children's minister. She is sometimes referred to as Pastor (name) by some parents and when identified on our on-line intro slide. I'm trouble with this since I've been associated with the SBC since I was 6 years old (76 now, became a Christian at 13). I'm reluctant at bringing this up to our leadership. What should I do?
You should talk to your elders about this. You should always feel okay to talk to them. If not, there's a bigger problem.
@@csimpsonjtd I did connect with my Pastor. He agreed with the traditional POV, women can’t be given title - Pastor
Our church used to do this and when confronted, they changed the titles to Director of Preschool Ministry.
I absolutely agree that only men should be pastors! In my view, it correlates with the man being the head of the home. Sure, there are single heads of households in this world; however, we the church are not to be like the world. Women are gifted in bible truth and can be used to edify and encourage through teaching, but being the pastor over the church is the responsibility of men, directed by God. 😊
As a Texan this surprises me regarding Ted Cruz
Eh, it doesn’t surprise me. He’s a politician, after all. And where he can find agreement with the opposite party, he will try.
@@TheRealQuartKneea career politician like DeSantis who shipped Dave Rubin 2 baby onesies upon his announcement about the purchase of 2 babies.
You may not agree with Spencer Smith, but his series on the Third Adam explains a lot.
I was born and raised Southern Baptist. In my churches, I never saw this doctrine abused. However, after attending a non-denominational evangelical church, I have seen women advised to submit to and even "shunned" for not "submittimg" to an abusive husband. In a perfect world, yep, this would work. But the church is far from perfect. I believe Southern Baptists used to say that the Bible condoned slavery. Hmmm...
I wish men did their job of pastoring so that women didn't feel the need to become pastors. Also, I haven't seen ANY "pastor" recently who actually PASTORS a church. Seems to me they mostly like to stand in front of a congregation, teach, and get paid very well. Oh, and build bigger and bigger unnecessary buildings. I wish it were not like this.
What I don’t understand is why the 4th commandment is disregarded. The only commandment that begins with “remember”, we’re told to by popular theologians to forget. 😒
No one is telling you to “forget it”. That is not being honest.
Just like circumcision, the sabbath day is fulfilled in our trust and belief in Christ.
We are not under the 10 commandments (the letters engraved in stone, the ministry of death, according to Paul), by the way. We are under the law of Christ as Paul states in 1 Cor. 9:20-21.
@@beckyfrechette4439 That’s entirely illogical, though, and biblically unsound.
There is not one single verse that states “the Sabbath was fulfilled at the cross” nor that Sunday replaces Saturday. If you look at Bible history, Constantine instituted Sunday in place of Saturday about 600 YEARS after the death of Christ
I get that it’s a popular teaching but it falls apart under scrutiny. To be Bible Christians we must keep all ten, not cherry pick.
There's an entire chapter, Hebrews 4. Just as the other parts of the Mosaic Law are fulfilled in Christ and replaced by a superior New Covenant reality, so is the Sabbath.
Not sure where the “49:46” came from, I did not even type that. I edited it out.
@@SeanusAurelius There were two sets of laws when it came to the ark of the covenant. The laws that governed were kept on the outside of the ark. The 10 commandments were kept inside the ark. Jesus fulfilled the laws that pointed to a Savior, that pointed to the cross.
Saying that Jesus fulfilled the 10 commandments makes no sense. So, murder is now okay? Coveting is now fine? Adultery is no longer a sin? Don't cherry pick verses to make your case. The fact of the matter is that the change from Saturday to Sunday was made by Emperor Constantine when pagan Rome became papal Rome.
We’ll done!!
I’m confused. Do you guys think it would be okay to enact this Ugandan law in the US?
This is all so sad. Jesus came to have a relationship with us not all these different religions that believe different doctrines. One must follow the Bible
which is God’s Word. Rick Warren has always been Biblically off the mark. We should focus on Jesus and spreading the Word of God. The sad thing is you all worry about a woman pastor but do you believe we were healed and made whole by the stripes of Jesus? 1 Peter 2:24. If not then explain why it is okay to cherry pick the Bible instead of heeding the full counsel of it?
Hmm… almost like there would be a use for a final authority on matters of division in the church, a magisterium perhaps 😂. I’m just giving you a hard time, I’m a convert to Catholicism from Baptist and I’m sure there’s lots of fun conversations to have there but I think we as a country have more pressing concerns right now.
Oops sorry about the typo
If women are allowed to be pastors the next step will be to allow gay and lesbians to be pastors.
"Pastor" is just Latin for "shepherd." Let's just use the words "shepherd," "elder," and "overseer" in English for men leading the church like the Bible does in Greek. Then there won't be this attachment or desire for the title of "pastor."
lol no
no women in leadership roles in the church, hard stop. women need to relearn their place and be humble.
@@MsQ275 I'm saying use the biblical words for the roles of **men** in leading the church. The word "pastor," as used today, is not in the Bible; it's just the word "shepherd."
It used in such a way. Paul plainly lists the pastoral role as we know it today as being part of God's church government: "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some _pastors_ and teachers,(Eph. 4:11)". The Bible refers to them as shepherds in the First Testament because they're given the responsibility of leading a congregation, aka a flock.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 The English translation you are using is translating the Greek word "poimen" for "shepherd" to the Latin "pastor." In the Greek it literally says "shepherds" there in Ephesians 4:11 and would have been read that way. The English word "pastor" as used today is not in the Bible.
@@MsQ275lol, men too.
Nothing ever changes...gets WORSE
Why bother
I guess I’m confused. Women are permitted and even commanded in the great commission to share the gospel to all but not from a pulpit in the building of a church- like the place from which they witness makes sharing the gospel sinful? Or are they saying that a woman cannot be in a decision making position because that’s deemed as having control over men? Is speaking God’s Word when sharing the gospel not speaking in and under the authority of Christ and thereby having authority in the Word? So basically a woman can teach the gospel, share their testimony, encourage their sisters and brothers in Christ - just not be in a place of power to make decisions? I don’t necessarily disagree with men only pastors but I’m confused as to what they consider authority over a man and how teaching scripture through a podcast to an audience of men is not leading or making decisions? Which I personally think is fine and don’t see as having power over men unless you consider the persuasion as authority. I don’t know. All I know is I’m now confused and I guess I’ll go to Jesus’ words to the Pharisees when they said He had a demon and Jesus pointed to the One getting the glory which was God the Father and not Himself with the encouragement to believe the works that He did - even if they couldn’t believe He was what He said He was- believe the works. Some said Jesus was “of God” because how could someone do those things if they were a sinner. And the blind man who was healed and then questioned repeatedly about how he was healed and who healed him said, “ I do not know Him or His name nor how He healed me- but what I do know is this that I was blind but now I see.” And also the warning that the church will be filled with leaders that are wolves in sheep clothing and that sounds scary and fearful but we were told that we would recognize them by their spirit- by the fruit- their deeds and so we were told to test every spirit. So there is a lot in the Bible about the spirit of a person, their works and the simplicity of the gospel. So all these other things are just so confusing when it comes to the great commission, witnessing for Jesus and helping people break free of the bondage of sin. I’ve read the Bible front to back several times and you get a fuller picture of God Almighty and His heart. He uses whomever He wills and the fruit and purpose is always the same- it glorifies God, it produces good fruit, it blesses and doesn’t curse. So I’ll just say I’m glad I don’t have desire to lead a church but I’m surely not going to be quiet if I’m in a place to lead a man to Christ because of fear it’s exerting authority over a man. And hopefully the love of Christ is not hindered over gender - whether a man refusing to hear a woman speak the Word of God because it comes from a female body or a woman dismissing the voice of the Holy Spirit because they are a woman and God wouldn’t lead them to speak into the life of a male. So I’m thinking, they mean just decision making position in a church, because clearly speaking God’s Word is not prohibited. Am I understanding it correctly?
That's a lot...& I apologize if you lost me there. The thing is women pastors is out of order. They can teach other women & children, but they can not be over the men. Remember God isn't the author of confusion. Why would He make the man the head at home & then go to church & have a woman over you?
That was long . Because God said so.
In the gathering setting.
I can’t read the whole thing right now, but I’ll just say, pastoring is not the same as being a missionary. I mean, you have to know, a pastor does a lot of things! So Im not sure how those two things are even compared.
Second, technically, the command of great commission was given to the disciples.
@@beckyfrechette4439 If you don't have time to read "the whole thing", maybe come back later and take some time to read and respond. Because dismissing people by not listening to their questions or doubts and failing to responding adequately can have very bad consequences. I have several friends who've had many questions about their faith over the years, and people did just that. Dismiss them, tell them to just believe, and that it's God's will. Well, it turns out that they are now really struggling and some even stopped believing completely. Know the power that unanswered questions hold and your responsibility when it comes to this.
This is what the Bible says: “woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.” 1 Timothy 2. The reasons given in this passage are within the context of the church (It is not saying women shouldn’t share the gospel to unbelievers)
question...is it rooted in creation or in the fall? Why did Satan approach Eve instead of Adam since Adam was God's first creation?
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin.
Complementarianism is a false doctrine that is in opposition to what God actually did.
God appointed a woman as a Judge over Israel.
There was no gender qualification to be a Judge, in the scriptures.
Proverbs 7
2 Keep my commandments, and LIVE; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
Matthew 19:
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do so that I may obtain ETERNAL LIFE?”
17. And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you want to enter LIFE, keep the commandments
The Torah is referred to often in singular- commandment.
John 12:50
And I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
There are several prophetesses in the Bible that men went to for guidance.🤔
What specifically is a
" 'qualified' man" ¿?
single or man who has not been divorced (or practiced polygamy in the ancient world), above reproach, managing his own family well (treats his family right, raises his children to love the lord, children are not in rebellion to the word of God), a faithful steward, humble, gentle-tempered, sober, not greedy, self-controlled, hospitable, spiritually mature, and a good example to the rest of the church. Not every man can preach.
We are acquainted with a Ugandan young man there. It is a poor nation. He said South African homosexuals come to Uganda to recruit workers in S Africa. There is little job opportunities in Uganda. Sen. Cruz is wrong.
If the major argument for complementarians is that women should not become pastors because we should not exercise authority over men, then women should not become CEOs and leaders in various fields, right? If not, what about Church distinguishes it, and how do we know it is exclusively said for Church? This is a question I've been asking myself for years, so I'd really appreciate your response, or if you know of any books or reading material that discuss this.
It all goes back to Deborah. Men and women are perfectly
equal spiritually. I suggest my short and free essay on her.
In it you'll see that the Judges were referred to as pastors,
by God Himself.
@@chadandersoh
Essay on Deborah, the Judge and prophetess. (Revised May 2023)
Before Paul we have her story. We don't know what Paul would have
said about her. We have to read about her first and then try to understand
Paul (if possible).
This is what the people at the beginning of Christianity had to do.
They knew the story of Deborah already.
Deborah is either a meaningless exception or an important precedent,
in the debate of whether men and women are spiritually equal.
Before beginning, it should be noted that there is no
scripture stating clearly or even hinting at,
that Deborah was God's second choice. There was no man
that rejected the call to be Judge, requiring a woman to
take that place.
*************************************************************
INTRODUCTION:
Before God was rejected by Israel for the rulership of men, that is, kings,
there were different 'seasons' so to speak. One of those seasons
was the time of the Judges.
...but they have rejected Me from being King over them.
Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; and they said to him, “Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint us a king to judge us like all the nations.” But the matter was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the Lord. And the Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people regarding all that they say to you, because they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being King over them. Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day-in that they have abandoned Me and served other gods-so they are doing to you as well.
-excerpt 1 Samuel 8
A Judge at this time, was VERY different from a judge in our time.
The Judge was over the nation of Israel. But not as a man, as
King, or as a woman, as Queen, because God was not rejected as King as yet.
God ruled Israel through the Judges.
Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars?
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 KJV
Major modern English translations like the NASB use
the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
[PASTOR - Origin: late Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French pastour,
from Latin pastor ‘shepherd’.]
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Also:
Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, and since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel.
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verses 9 and 10 KJV -God speaking to Nathan the prophet
Finally:
All the Judges were men, except one. Deborah.
She was married, but her husband was not a Judge.
HER JUDGING AUTHORITY here:
Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel went up to her for judgment.
-excerpt Judges 4
Deborah judged men and had the authority to execute, as
some sins in the Old Covenant, such as murder, demanded the death penalty
as the punishment.
There was no appeal to Deborah's (a Judge's) verdict:
... you shall not turn aside from the word which they declare to you, to the right or the left.
If a man rejected Deborah's decision, the penalty was execution:
But the person who acts insolently by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the Lord your God, nor to the judge, that person shall die;...
She used the Law, therefore scripture, when judging and instructing:
In accordance with the terms of the law about which they instruct you...
She had the same authority as a Levitical priest:
So you shall come to the Levitical priests or the judge...
Also of note, she judged the hardest cases in the nation.
“If a case is too difficult for you to decide, between one kind of homicide or another, between one kind of lawsuit or another, and between one kind of assault or another, that are cases of dispute in your courts, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the Lord your God chooses. So you shall come to the Levitical priests or the judge who is in office in those days, and you shall inquire of them and they will declare to you the verdict. Then you shall act in accordance with the terms of the verdict which they declare to you from that place which the Lord chooses; and you shall be careful to act in accordance with everything that they instruct you to do. In accordance with the terms of the law about which they instruct you, and in accordance with the verdict which they tell you, you shall act; you shall not turn aside from the word which they declare to you, to the right or the left. But the person who acts insolently by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the Lord your God, nor to the judge, that person shall die; so you shall eliminate the evil from Israel.
-excerpt Deuteronomy 17
********************************
THE REASON GOD SENT HER here:
...the Lord was moved to pity...
And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge and saved them from the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the Lord was moved to pity by their groaning because of those who tormented and oppressed them.
-excerpt Judges 2
The sending of a Judge meant God was showing mercy to His people.
It wasn't a judgment against them.
Since Deborah was a woman, this scripture is sometimes used
in error to describe her, in our time:
My people! Their oppressors treat them violently,
And women rule over them.
My people! Those who guide you lead you astray
And confuse the direction of your paths.
-excerpt Isaiah 3
They are taking the prophetess Deborah and comparing her to
Jezebel who murdered prophets.
Has it not been reported to my master what I did when Jezebel killed the prophets of the Lord, that I hid a hundred prophets of the Lord...
-excerpt 1 Kings 18
When a Judge died, THEN people were led astray.
But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways.
-excerpt Judges 2
THE AUTHORITY SHE HAD OVER THE COMMANDER OF THE ARMY here:
Now she sent word and summoned Barak...
She gave the order for the battle to begin that Israel won.
Then Deborah said to Barak, “Arise! For this is the day on which the Lord has handed Sisera over to you...
Before the battle began she prophesied that a woman
would kill Sisera (the enemy commander). This happened,
as Jael, a woman not part of the battle, killed Sisera.
She said, “I will certainly go with you; however, the fame shall not be yours on the journey that you are about to take, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.”
And:
But Jael, Heber’s wife, took a tent peg and a hammer in her hand, and went secretly to him and drove the peg into his temple, and it went through into the ground; for he was sound asleep and exhausted. So he died. And behold, while Barak was pursuing Sisera, Jael came out to meet him and said to him, “Come, and I will show you the man whom you are seeking.” So he entered with her, and behold, Sisera was lying dead with the tent peg in his temple.
So what were the results of this battle?
And the Lord routed Sisera and all his chariots and all his army with the edge of the sword before Barak; and Sisera got down from his chariot and fled on foot. But Barak pursued the chariots and the army as far as Harosheth-hagoyim, and all the army of Sisera fell by the edge of the sword; not even one was left.
Also:
So God subdued Jabin the king of Canaan on that day before the sons of Israel. And the hand of the sons of Israel pressed harder and harder upon Jabin the king of Canaan, until they had eliminated Jabin the king of Canaan.
-excerpts Judges 4
In Judges 5, most of the chapter is Deborah and Barak
singing praises to God. The song lyrics are there.
Final sentence of Judges 5:
And the land was at rest for forty years.
Obviously a great outcome.
EXPLANATION OF GOD USING DEBORAH here:
Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth...
Prophets and prophetesses are anointed with the
Holy Spirit as we know.
The explanation of God using Deborah to judge men
and being over the army is here:
An anointing of the Holy Spirit is the anointing of a powerful masculine being. That anointing eclipses gender.
FINAL THOUGHTS here:
A woman anointed with the Holy Spirit can serve in any capacity
in our time. Whatever valid title/position there is.
To oppose this, is to oppose the Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit
that was upon Deborah the prophetess and Judge. Deborah, the
woman that "saved them from the hand of their enemies" by
God's will.
@@chadandersoh
A Judge was far far above any pastor
or elder in our time. So Deborah is not
equivalent. In this you are correct.
Whoever has ears to hear:
1. Paul was talking about the The Riot in Ephesus Acts 19:23-41 which was actually instigated by Demetrius a male
2. Deuteronomy 18:1-2 New International Version
18 The Levitical priests-indeed, the whole tribe of Levi-are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the Lord, for that is their inheritance. 2 They shall have no inheritance among their fellow Israelites; the Lord is their inheritance, as he promised them.
A tribe is made up of men an women.
You keep posting on here things that sound nice but aren't biblical. I would really encourage you to read Scripture and maybe speak with a Bible teacher. The law of Moses was clear that women could inherit land in their father's name if their father did not have sons (5 daughters of Zelophedad) BUT those women were instructed to marry within their tribe if they chose to marry so that if they married into a different tribe, they would not shift the inheritance from one tribe to another. Levites--who were unable to inherit land--were not included in these discussions of land/inheritance. When it came to the duties of the Levites, however, it was clear from Scripture that the men would be the ones performing the duties, and only unmarried daughters (still under their father's authority) could partake of the priest's allotment of the sacrifices, but only sons could eat of the sin offering on the Day of Atonement.
@@myrachtn3 what is a female rabbi called?
There's nothing in the Torah that impedes women priests
Genesis 5:2
Complete Jewish Bible
2 he created them male and female; he blessed them and called them Adam [humankind, man] on the day they were created.
Gal. 3 Verses 28 to 29 [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
@@myrachtn3 when does a man become a woman? When he becomes Jesus's bride. Jesus is the bridegroom and the church is the bride.
@@myrachtn3 2 Samuel 20:16-22
New King James Version
16 Then a wise woman cried out from the city, “Hear, hear! Please say to Joab, ‘Come nearby, that I may speak with you.’ ” 17 When he had come near to her, the woman said, “Are you Joab?”
He answered, “I am.”
Then she said to him, “Hear the words of your maidservant.”
And he answered, “I am listening.”
18 So she spoke, saying, “They used to talk in former times, saying, ‘They shall surely seek guidance at Abel,’ and so they would end disputes. 19 I am among the peaceable and faithful in Israel. You seek to destroy a city and a mother in Israel. Why would you swallow up the inheritance of the Lord?”
20 And Joab answered and said, “Far be it, far be it from me, that I should swallow up or destroy! 21 That is not so. But a man from the mountains of Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri by name, has raised his hand against the king, against David. Deliver him only, and I will depart from the city.”
So the woman said to Joab, “Watch, his head will be thrown to you over the wall.” 22 Then the woman in her wisdom went to all the people. And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri, and threw it out to Joab. Then he blew a trumpet, and they withdrew from the city, every man to his tent. So Joab returned to the king at Jerusalem.
@@myrachtn3 Test My Spirit do you know how to do that?
There’s a reason Jesus said only a few of those who think their saved actually are. It’s about obedience.
US and every civilized country should leave Uganda alone I know where these criticisms are going to lead they are going to want to sanction Uganda and they should just leave them alone they have been pushing them to push the LGBT agenda and they don't want to
What about women leading small groups? There’s a small group for young families (so, men and women) which is led by a woman at our local church.
Women should teach women and children.... not men. I think the only context this would be helpful is if it was a married couple teaching a mixed group.
@@prudentpennyBut where is the Biblical basis for even that? I have a children’s ministry pastor in my church but she is still called Pastor. Not saying it shouldn’t be allowed because I’m clearly ok with it.
Oh no!!!!!
It seems women are speaking up for themselves. Why would they do that? What are they not receiving that perhaps they need to receive? Are they under appreciated for the work they do? Something else? Before blaming women for what they’re asking, why not pray abt why they’re asking and not receiving. “Lord what is needed here? Is this what you desire? Are we missing or misinterpreting something? What is the root? Thank you, Lord. Amen”
There is a pro lgbt commercial before this video. Even Google’s algorithm wouldn’t do that. It’s silly and immature to do this before a Christian video
Not that I think its right, since all scripture is "God breathed", but I can imagine someone parsing Paul's words--"I (Paul, personally) don't allow a woman to have authority over a man"--but that Jesus never said that. Its the same old liberal theologian playbook--"Paul said/Jesus said"---where they try to pit the two against each other. Having said that, there are places in Paul's letters where he prefaces what he is going to say with'--"this is just me talking"..
" Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."-Rom. 1:32. That's New Testament Ted!
(34:40) We dodged a bullet with Ted Cruz for president or Ted Cruz for supreme court.
The best preachers of The S.B.C. are the female speakers of Women Missionary Union of The Southern Baptist Convention. I have being in the sending missionaries dedication services at Glorieta N.M. and Ridgcrest in multiple times and more than that the International Mission Board traditionally has ordained Women Missionaries before sending them overseas. Lottie Moon and Annie Armstrong are probably the most known cases.
Hello Sister Allie! I was wondering if you have an email. I have a question that I cant seem to get answered. I agree with the word of God completely. However this particular thing I cannot find in scripture! Maybe it's the interpretation. Well thank you so much for sharing what you learn with us. God Bless!
It she doesn't answer you there are tons of videos on here about it. If you need suggestions let me know.
I saw a video on TikTok of a gay “pastor” who decorated with their various flags and had unisex restrooms and preached from The Message and attended a pride parade and told people to support Flamy Grant. I saw a video of a lesbian “pastor” wearing a rainbow flag draped around her.
It's not the gender that matters. Deborah was a Judge, and one
of the better ones. The Judges were pastors, according to God.
@AllieBethStuckey who is Jesus? This is a test.
Jesus had no female Disciples or Apostles. There were no female Prophets or Rabbis. No female has ever lead at church 'til recent times.
Philip's daughters were prophetesses. Acts 21:9
Theyre divided because theyve ignored the bible for so long 😅😅😅😅
They are not Christian.
“...because we’re not Jewish people worshiping with Jewish customs”, ugh, that is NOT why we are not under old covenant law! This is why so many end up in the Torah movement, because pastors don’t adequately explain these things! Sorry, off topic, but even in the couple seconds he had, he could have at least said those things have served their purpose as they are fulfilled in Christ.
It has never felt natural to me to have women leaders. I feel way more safe with men leaders.