Rob English Responds To Kevin Mann (Haircafe): Educational
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- This video is a response to a video made by Kevin Mann (Haircafe) about my podcast appearance with Paul Saladino.
Original podcast:
• Is there a way to reve...
About Rob English:
-Editorial board member of Dermatology and Therapy
-Medical editor specializing in hair loss disorders
-Peer-reviewed publications: perfecthairhealth.com/publica...
Oh boy I never thought drama could occur in the hair loss community.
Fr🤣
And to think that we are supposed to avoid stress
New to the hair loss community, thanks to Menopause. Rob helped me grow outta pattern baldness.
😂
😂😂😂😂
I don't blame him for thinking you don't have male pattern baldness, you have no signs of hair loss and have the hairline of a 12 year old boy. I'm skeptical myself
in older pictures he has hair loss in the front and he sweeps his hair over it to hide it.
@@905JimRaynor why are those pics not on his site about page then???
@@sowaveysuyat true, there is also a picture of Rob with 100% hair standing near Lee Harvey Oswald in the Texas School Book Depository.
I've known many people with perfect hairlines in the front but balding spots in the back. Always thought that must suck because it probably really sneaks up on you.
It's always the guys who never suffer from male pattern baldness trying to tell me what's the best route
Guys why are you fighting? No no. I want to see you two being friends.
This is how a mature adult handles conflict. Head on, while being respectful, with facts, and even being kind enough to give Kevin props for being an active member of the hair loss community (among other compliments you paid him). Thanks for being an awesome dude Rob.
Thanks a ton for watching!
@@PerfectHairHealthKevin Mann has so many victims from pushing them into 5ar inhibitors and laughing when they get injured. He is an evil and weak soul
Wow.
He really diacredited himself here.
After this scathingly thorough, decisive, accurate, and well presented rebuttal, I don't see how anyone can trust him.
I appreciate thw work you put into this. Excellent response.
Well done.
Dam.. i am also a fan of keven and started watching your video with a sense of bias but after watching the entire length i was surprised... this is very educational and professional. Very impressed. I hope you dont get discouraged by the discouraging comments and dislikes. Keep up the good work. In fact we are in the same boat: fighting hairloss!
Thanks man! I appreciate your willingness to watch the full video.
Bro ckeck out kevins new vid
@@jurotomic9638 I think everyone here is aware of Kevin Mann's latest video. It employs more of the same tactics: missummaries of my positions and massive misinterpretations of the scientific literature.
On that note, Kevin Mann just deleted a 25+ comment thread pinned under his new video. It was on a topic that he brought to light after reading comments on my channel. Specifically, Kevin Mann attempted to defend his stance on telogen effluvium by citing a study different from the resource he used in his response video - which was literally a WebMD article.
Comically, that study (and all four others that Kevin presented) actually argued the opposite of his position. He just hadn't read any of the resources closely enough to realize they were in complete disagreement with his opinion.
Anyway, I commented to point this out. I also began engaging him in scientific debate. When it became clear he couldn't defend his positions scientifically, Kevin started deleting my comments. When I called him out on this, he then deleted more of my comments, banned me from his channel, and attempted to justify these actions by falsely alleging that my last comments made "new legal threats" against him.
This was 100% false. I've got the screenshots to prove it (and will be posting them).
The truth is that Kevin couldn't defend his positions, and he didn't like getting dismantled in front of his audience. So, he deleted the thread and created a lie to cover it up.
Kevin Mann is now censoring debate with me, because he actually can't defend his positions.
As I stated before: Kevin Mann's latest video is intellectually underwhelming, emotionally overwrought, and filled with tactics that stoke internet tribalism rather than scientific debate. Case in point: he deletes a comment thread when he can't defend his own positions.
I'm not intimidated by people like this, and I plan on calling it out.
Kevin mann has hundreds of sock accounts. He is defo on the spectrum as well.
@@antoneckhart6004 he also use steroids and claims he doesn't lol
Hey honestly i like you both this discussion was so much informative this definitely needs more views
I'm glad you liked it! As I mentioned in the video, I think it's important that people vary their sources of information. I'm happy to hear you get value from both channels!
Great rebuttal. And educational as it is refuting. Good job.
Excellent and professional!
Rob’s massage technics have helped me getting my hair back! I am a 60 years old woman and suffered from alopecia androgenetica for 20 years. I spent a lot of money on products that didn’t work. The massaging did the trick and I am so grateful to you Rob. Your info has led me in the right direction. Greetings from The Netherlands!
Same here ! 34 yr old man from France. I often say that Rob kind of save my life, because I was so sad back in the days: my hair loss began in my early 20s, receding even with fin. And all of a sudden, I began to do massages at 30. And lots of my hair did grow back ! I added a few things lately (minox + dermarolling) and I have thick hair now. But massages really helped a lot.
@@nicolasstavroguine4017 Hi, you're French so ? Car moi aussi :), j'ai 19 ans et des golfes depuis 1 an / 1 an et demi, j'ai commencé les massages hier, je pourrais vraiment inverser la ligne frontale ?
@@s0s0_02 bonjour Sofian, je ne vais pas re garantir que tu vas retrouver tous tes cheveux, c’est rare, d’autant plus avec juste les massages. En revanche, tu vas rapidement te débarrasser de ton excès de sebum / dermite sebborheique, et d’ici quelques mois tes cheveux vont (normalement) devenir plus épais. Il y aura des repousses si tu pratiques les massages sérieusement. Même sur les golfes, en revanche ça dépend de ton stade de calvitie, depuis combien de temps la zone est chauve, de ta génétique, etc, pas mal de choses. Mais oui, ça marche ! Après, chacun est différent
Hellos Anne, did you change your diet too? Or did you just do the exercises?
@@jeffguillen2503 I just did the exercises, almost every day for about 10 minutes. You’ll have to be consistent but when you’re seeing results it becomes easier.
Rob you are very well spoken and your website is full of amazing content. I really look forward to be a part of your community, I have tons of questions!! see you soon!!
I bet ur bald af now
I think that Kevin Mann (and myself too) has mental trauma from fighting hairloss and going only "natural" treatments and making promise to never touch a finasteride or a minoxidil and then losing a lot of hairs through years only because someone scared us from finasteride and then make a promise to regrowth hair with his "only natural" products. I literally lose a lot of money and progress into norwood 4/5 from norwood 2 because someone promise to me(us?) to regrowth hair outside the finasteride and minoxidil route. I think that you, Rob English is the most knowledgeadle person on hairloss on youtube :) and probably 2000+ articles on hairloss has something to say about AGA apart from finasteride and minoxidil but know one ever look through them with your knowledge so actually I am planning to buy your membership even I'm on fin and minoxidil already :)
Why are you saying it like being scared of Finasteride's side effects is a bad thing?
@@abrielrobertsson4160 because the chance of side effects is so small that the positive aspect of a drug are far superior.
@@BiZii1024 Saying that means you are really oblivious of dozens (maybe hundreds) of studies on the side effects of the drug. The "less than 2%" rhetoric is a marketing strategy that Merck has very effectively used for their own benefit. I made a comment on this channel about the drawbacks of side effect reporting of finasteride and the gist of it is that the majority of people who experience side effects from the drug, do not report them for different reasons. Furthermore, the amount of studies just in the last two years showcasing the psychological side effects of the drug have increased drastically. Just recently, Merck was forced by the FDA to put "suicidal thoughts" in the list of their side effects.
You know, I went to Kevin's channel and there was a commenter who wrote that he had gyno because of the drug. Kevin the idiot responded "Well, you could just have surgery and remove the glands" (paraphrasing). Do you have this kind of mentality as well? Do you think that saving your hair for the cost of experiencing horrible side effects is worth even the effort?
@@BiZii1024 i would take that number with a grain of salt
@@BiZii1024 the numbers are not small guy.
Masterclass on intelligent, respectful, and emotionally controlled response and debate...this felt like an Eminem Kill Shot clapback, lol. Great job Rob.
what in the name of holy cope
Great video as always Rob!
Have been using finasteride and minoxidil since 2008 after trying nearly every other option along my journey such as vitamins and almost all the natural alternative products available. The big guns were the only thing to put a stop to my Androgenic Alopecia. I just wish I'd have realised this a couple of years earlier instead of wasting time going the natural route for a couple of years. I'm now 35 and still have my hair.
That’s great to hear that you’ve stabilized your hair loss. Some people respond well to natural interventions, but some people don’t. This is why I think it’s so critical that people adhere to results horizons when testing lesser-studied interventions. We have a video about this if you want to check it out. That way, they can “check the box” for their own treatment preferences, but also efficiently navigate to better-studied interventions if they’re not responding within the windows specified.
Same here. None of the natural stuff worked. Only the tried and true Finasteride worked. No sides at all. Libido actually is higher, which I find funny.
@@PerfectHairHealth nobody responds to 'natural interventions' other than in anicdotes
@@PerfectHairHealth I know like 10 people where natural solutions worked like a charm for them you on point if your hair loss isn’t as advanced why would you start with finasteride esp if you a married man and wanting to start a family,why forcing people to believe if something hasn’t worked for me it will not work for them too and what’s worked for me will for them too it’s just stupid
@@becksy539 bullshit, there are peer reviewed studies on lots of natural products
What do you think for a female or have white hair in her early thirties? Got few here and there, but what is causing this? I have hair loss in the front. Had hypothyroid. I said had becuz i am no longer considered hypo as i worked on my liver health. Love your work and so happy i found you on Dr Paul podcast.
Great rebuttal, well put-together, presented, articulated...logical.
how???
Your response wins simply on the basis of having Dennis Reynolds clips throughout.
Edit: come to think about it, this Kevin guy gives me Dennis Reynolds vibes! Was this intentional on your part???
i'm vegan (for over 10 yrs at this point) , i actually noticed significant thickening of my hair once i improved my diet. i doubt it has anything to do with anything intrinsic to meat, some of the changes i made included- increasing high quality protein intake, increasing micronutrition, more sun exposure along with consistent supplementing with b12/vitamin d. definitely significant improvements to my hair density, and i have before and after showing it
Just my opinion, but i think brute forcing a higher protein intake is going to backfill certain amino acids and micronutrients that would have helped with my hair. but i made alot of changes, so it would be hard to pin something down.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing, and congratulations on your improvements. Have these changes sustained for the last 10 years? Are you using any pharmaceuticals?
@@PerfectHairHealth yes, I've been using the normal treatments for about a year now, didn't have much significant improvement or changes until about 3 months ago when i started basically 200+g of protein per day and tracking it. there are other changes i've made aswell so it's hard to pin down, along with the pharmaceuticals, but i think the strongest correlation is definitely with my dietary changes. i have come to think that potentially my issue was mainly nutrition based, and less so androgenic hair loss, but at this point i would rather be safe than sorry.
You could say it's just taken that long for the treatments to become effective, and that would be a fair enough point, but i would disagree.
Hi, sounds promising! I eat a lot of meat. Many of my peers are turning vege or vegan and I’m wondering if I should follow suit.. could you list your top 3 protein sources so I can try to understand how to make the switch?
Veganism is the best way to destroy your hair. Fast malnutrition. Meat is so important for us.
@@davidstonecreation DONT do it. Please. 87% of vegans quit becausd they get sick. Dont.do it.
Rob, I think your overall strategy is quite different from Kevin's, and in a great way! Unbelievable that anyone could even attempt to discredit your style of source-cited research, and not only that but insult your character and reputation via misinterpretation and paraphrasing, all in a rash and very nasty manner. You are literally the #1 least biased researcher I have come across. This is a testament to every fact you present, like ever... But I'm glad you responded to this loud nut, and WOW did you respond! All that's honestly left to do is drop the mic... Thank you for being YOU.... - Follower since Book v1!
Thanks Matt! I appreciate the kind words.
Kevin and I have different styles of communication, and for the most part, I think that's fine. Even still, I don't appreciate when someone hyper-cuts an interview, criticizes me for opinions I don't hold, falsifies my medical history, omits key interview segments that refute someone's counterpoints, and gets basic hair loss science wrong in their rebuttals. So, I wanted to address these problems - albeit in a way that also would be educational.
I love your videos. Dealing with diffuse hair thinning that's gotten worse lately. Hair line is OK, but can see thru scalp. I tried fin and dut and had side effects on micro dose. Non responder to minox. So now what ? I'm doing the massage techniques and hoping I find something soon to keep sparse hair.
Well, let me ask you something. Why are you saddened by your hairloss? What is the reason you do not want to lose your hair?
@@abrielrobertsson4160 I don't like bald look. End. Done. Period.
@@hero.alexander kudos bro, a complete mouth-shut reply for shave it Bros!
@@abrielrobertsson4160 try hair transplant bro. I did HT 2 years ago now my hair styles rocking. Just I taking finasteride 0.25mg thrice in a week .
Always been a big fan of your work Rob. Great work as usual
Thank you Nael!
Nothing to do with this videos topic but damn Rob its crazy to see how much you and your website/research has grown. Years ago when I first stumbled upon you you were very unknown and your research on hair loss was fringe at best in topics discussing the issue. But after I read through your stuff I knew that you would eventually blow and your research would become the future of hair loss treatments, or at the very least the kickstart for a real, effective and safe treatment. Its cool to finally see that happening for you now! Almost everyone on yt discussing good hair loss treatment mentions either massages, microneedling or both and I genuinely believe that your work has made that so.
I was waiting so long for this video. I know this will be educational and amazing.
This video is a great lesson in how to debate, how to defend one's opinions, beliefs and integrity, and how to set an example and lead by action. The time and energy it took to research, fact check and produce this video was well worth it and an example of the value you bring to both the public with your freely available content, and your paying customers. Everyone deserves to be paid for their time and effort when providing value. The information, resources and community you provide clearly is a full time job and then some. Anyone who believes you shouldn't be compensated fairly for your dedicated efforts should promptly consider returning their most recent paychecks to their respective employers. Great work, Rob.
Have you seen Kevins response to this response?
You've handed the matter so nicely. Great video
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching.
This was a great response. But just playing devil's advocate here, why should people trust you to represent the research accurately?
You have a financial interest in this. And sure, Kevin does too. But not really. Adsense revenue is not really that lucrative, especially in the low view counts Kevin gets
@EKG Damn bro. Big brain response
@@fruitjuice5672 Have to agree..pretty much summes up my thoughts also
@EKG Exactly
delete this now
I'm glad you defended yourself! He went really hard on you, which was very unwarranted. I was surprised to see him make a video about you.
Thank you! I didn’t have any issues with him making a video about me, or disagreeing with me. I did, however, take issue with him falsifying my medical history, and then inaccurately summarizing much of the conversation to criticize me for things I never said.
I understand Kevin is already planning a response video (no surprise there). For now, I don’t plan on responding to whatever he says next - mainly because Kevin hasn’t yet demonstrated any willingness to engage in an honest conversation. I understand some of his subscribers might think differently, and that’s okay. But we have the full podcast to address anything he says next.
@@PerfectHairHealth You could always do something like What I've Learned does. Whenever he needs to make a rebuttal, he posts it on his Patreon (for free). You could probably do the same in the form of a blog post!
Would be much easier than recordinng/editing an hour long video, and a great learning opportunity for those who are curious
Rob, I suggest you ignore Kevin Mann and his legionnaire of die hard fans. A lot of them just blindly follow their leader.
@@robert7622 Thanks for your concern bud, but I do have a full head of hair.
@@robert7622 so explain why you are on this channel? If you must know I use OM, something your Father and Fearless leader advises against. But works spectacularly on me. If I listen to your maker, I would still be applying the topical version on my head.
Tried the natural route, doesn’t work….finasteride saved my hair with zero side effects except alittle acne….I started finasteride becz of Kevin’s videos, i just wish I started earlier and should have avoided people who promote natural routes.
Did you try the PHH massages?
Been on fin for 3 months at 40 y/o, some hair regrowth already but definitely noticed a bit of a return to the acne of my youth which is strange cos people say dht causes acne.
@@kinderscout7000 supposedly its because dht decreases but testosterone can increase. That can explain the acne
@@benchabanehocine7809 yes.
Same here
I love your videos & content Rob - thank you! Can i please ask your opinion on Finasteride for women? Do you have any videos on this topic - I cant find them if there are. Thanks
Thanks! We will have an article about this very soon on our site! Probably next week.
@@PerfectHairHealth - sounds great! Looking forward to reading it thank you!
Spironolactone is what women are put on.
From where we can get your message technique video?
I listen to Kevin. I like his content (except for his bs video about the clot inducing jib jab).
I have been listening to your content. I think you are a good speaker and you make fair analysis. I don't believe, however, you ever had male pattern baldness and I think you were misdiagnosed. Nothing you would claim will convince me you have kept your hair without any DHT blocker. Nope.
But then again, the information you present is fairly accurate and well delivered so I'm not doubting that just your particular hair situation.
Your persona is cool and very professional,you really research on it , thumbs up
Rob, you are the only one person that i believe when you talking about issues of hairloss, i'm your follower
I appreciate that! I think it’s healthy (and important) to vary our sources of information. The goal of this channel has never been to teach people what to think; it’s to teach people how to think about the evidence and possible treatments. I want my perspectives challenged, because that’s part of productive discourse.
I wish Kevin Mann could do that without also needing to engage in attention-seeking behavior - like hyperbolizing my arguments and lying to his audience about my positions or what I said. But just because he’s doing this and diluting his own content, doesn’t mean that I am infallible or that I should be the only resource someone uses :) I appreciate the intent behind your comment, and I hope you like the next few videos we have coming out.
Why did you hide the like and dislikes?
Yes why would a smaller channel hide the dislikes to like ratio when beefing with a bigger channel. Better send this question to Oxford buddy.
Although there was a lot of complain about it, I'm kinda glad youtube removed them altogether..
Too many Kevin groupies .
Hi Rob.
Where can I watch your interview with Jared?
Is what Kevin says about gelatin true? He says that it’s in effective when talking it for hair health and growth.
I recently was debating Kevin Mann on the existence of post drug syndromes and he also started defending claims that I never made. Glad to know I'm not the only one he does this too. He also ignored crucial points in my arguments which I found pretty intellectually dishonest of him. Then 3/4 of the response was defending the claim I never made. He even wrote out "you are wrong" in regards to said claim lol.
Anyway, great vid.
Oof that sounds familiar! People use that strategy when they want to look right, rather than have an honest debate.
Watching both videos . I 'm so fed up!
Can you do a video about topical antiandrogens , it would be really helpful!
Sure! I cover a couple of topical DHT reducers in our “DHT Blockers” video - so I’d recommend checking that out for now. But we will have more videos about this soon.
I went through the same experienced, and after i enrolled to the law schools and learned law of tort, i should take legal action against those who published my name with with harmful words. Anyway... Within few weeks of scalp massages and microneedling exercises, it really help me to grow my hair dramatically covers my receded hairline and somehow i feel that my receded hairline slowly regrowth... I might see the full positive result within 4, 6 to 9 months. Scalp massages and microneedling is very practical to prevent further damage of hair follicles, tissues which may accelerate the transformation of vellus to terminal hair.
May I ask what your routine is for the massage and needling? When needle lengh you use, wether its a roller or pen, age, how long you have noticed hair loss for and how long you have been using each treatment as well as your results aka what norwood you were at and are now at?
It's been more than 9 months, what's the result
I like both you and kevin, you are like the calm put together guy but he brings a kind of crackhead energy to hair regrowth that is needed for some people to take action
he also brings actual clinical data rather than his own made up bullshit stories like rob here does
Demolished! Excellent vid
I'm really interested about the gut bacteria theory. Are you gonna makea video about that?
Where are scalp massages on your website ? I can't see
Ok let's be real, this skinny guy is probably right, and his hairline is even better than Kevin's, but Kevin could still bench-press-to-suplex then choom-slap him on the floor
Amazing video
I like how you stay so calm in your rebuttal,, while Kevin is really "spitting fire".
Spitting 🔥? 😀
Nope.... It just that's his style, even in his other normal topic he cover just like that.
Spitting 🔥? 😀
Nope.... It just that's his style, even in his other normal topic he cover just like that.
This, it's due to his vegan diet
Thank you Robert. It's sad you had to spend time and energy to make this. I love your efforts and research, keep up the great work!
Thanks for watching!
u can’t be serious LOL
@@praisegodpraisehim3622 About what?
I have watched the whole video in one sitting and I have to say: hats off for your response. I have researched a lot about hair loss and I have to say objectively you are one of the most if not the most objective and reasonable guy talking regarding this topic that I have seen so far. This video made my wanna buy your membership (maybe in the near future when I can afford it)...it sounds like a cool good-hearted community just like you. I don't usually take time writing long comments and putting effort into articulating my thoughts and feelings but I had to, you well deserve it!! I don't know what else to say but I hope the like and this comment (I'm already subscribed) helps a little bit in growing your channel, it's very good! I hope you read this comment and motivates you to continue doing great work regarding hair loss research. Have a good day sir!!
So you've researched that bloodflow has been debunked at least 1000 times by ACTUAL scientists and not a fucking youtuber lmaooooooooooooooo
55:44 "All of the research that we've published on scalp massages is entirely free. You don't need to pay anything to access the video or PDF we showed to participants in that study. The links are even below." - Where are the links? I don't see them.
Whoops! Thanks for pointing this out. Here you go: perfecthairhealth.com/scalp-massage-free-guide/
Great show Rob.
Why is Kevin so angry all the time???
Thank you
Because of finasteride 🤣
@@mrdesker1941 Very True.
True Narcissist right there.🤣
What do you think about procapil
Watched at 2x speed, great response Rob! There's no way he can double down after this
Thanks man! I always appreciate your comments, and I know this video was a long one!
@@Real_Life_Eren_Yeager Based on Kevin's behavior so far, this wouldn't surprise me.
@@Real_Life_Eren_Yeager I think you're right. He already made a community post about it. I wonder what he even could possibly say, he doesn't have much ground to stand on now
@@fruitjuice5672 While I'm hoping for better, my guess is that Kevin's response will employ the same strategies used in his original video: deliberate mischaracterizations, data misinterpretations, unfounded criticisms, etc.
@@PerfectHairHealth Yo you disabled likes/dislikes? Why bro?
Who does your editing? Yourself or someone else? Nice editing.
This was like watching McGregor vs Alvarez
As always a great video Rob!
I love the fact that you are now on You Tube.
Had your E-Book ever since J.D Moyer made a blogpost about it and wondered ever since were I can find more material from you.
There’s a FAQ part in the book where you compare your diet with Danny Roddy, did you ever think of collaborating with him ?
Keep up the great work !!!
Greetings from Germany 🇩🇪
Thanks!
In that 2014 book, I believe the excerpt from the FAQ talks about Danny Roddy's diet and where our philosophies differ. At the time, my personal experience was that a Danny Roddy / Ray Peat diet didn't work for me. That's not to say that my experience will be everyone's experience. Rather, it's just to say that the version I tried wasn't right for me. I haven't read much of Danny Roddy's work in the past few years, so I don't want to make comparisons against ideas he may have revised and/or no longer holds. But I did feel like one of the differences in our scientific interpretation was that he tended to consider all forms of hair loss as the same, whereas I think distinctions among hair loss types are important. I could be totally wrong about that as of today - but it was just my opinion a couple years ago when I was more familiar with his work. But regardless of these differences in interpretation, he has always struck me as a very kind person.
Hey Rob. Excellent video. Ive been reading about Telogen Effluvium, and have seen accounts of certain products that can cause it such as selenium sulfide. Have you seen info about other topical ingredients that can accelerate hair loss? Thanks for the great content.
Hey Danny - that's super interesting. Do you have any references that I can check out? The one study I'm aware of is from 1956, and highlighted a few case reports of people noting diffuse hair loss while using selenium sulfide, and then hair shedding stopping after its cessation:
Grover RW. DIFFUSE HAIR LOSS ASSOCIATED WITH SELENIUM (SELSUN) SULFIDE SHAMPOO. JAMA. 1956;160(16):1397-1398. doi:10.1001/jama.1956.02960510023006
It's tough to know whether this was from selenium sulfide, an allergic reaction to an adjunct ingredient, or perhaps even the frequency of shampooing (as selenium sulfide can have a drying effect on your hair). In any case, I do know a lot of people with seborrheic dermatitis + AGA + telogen effluvium and who rotate anti-inflammatory shampoos (ketoconazole, coal tar, selenium sulfide, zinc pyrithione) and see significant improvements to both dandruff and hair shedding. So, my take is that there is a place for selenium sulfide - although usage frequencies (and individual circumstances) matter.
@@PerfectHairHealth Yeah I did not look into the scientific studies but it was something I came across in discussion forums from around 10 people. Another thing I was curious about, I first saw you in your "origin story" video, when you were talking about scalp massages. Wanted to see if other people have tried it, a few people from forums and comments have said they they noticed patches of hair loss after starting the massages. Do you think they were likely just being too vigorous, and maybe adding oil to the scalp would reduce friction? Or is that initial shedding a normal part of restarting the growth cycle.
@@angelicannihilator Thanks! If someone is noticing patchy-related hair loss from massaging, my presumption would be that they're either going too hard or that they might have another type of hair loss (or compounding types of hair loss - like TE + AGA or AA).
In any case, you can actually troubleshoot this. During any massage session, look at the hairs that shed out. Do they have a rounded bulb at the end? If so, that suggests it's a telogen hair - which means that the hair you've just shed has actually been disconnected from its follicular base for between 2-6 weeks (and thus has been sitting in the hair shaft, disconnected from a blood supply, for the same amount of time). These are the hairs we shed normally throughout the day - and because of normal hair cycling, it's natural lose up to 150 telogen hairs daily even in the absence of a hair loss disorder. So, if you're just knocking these out, you're essentially just knocking out hairs that you would've otherwise lost unnoticed throughout the day, but due to the nature of the massages, you're now noticing this loss during a massage session.
While it's somewhat common for increased hair shedding to occur during the beginning of treatment like minoxidil or finasteride, I don't think this has to be the case with the massages. If you're going to try them at all, I'd recommend finding an intensity such that by the end of any session, you've only shed 15-20 hairs. And if you're doing these massage in lieu of other treatments, PLEASE be aware of results horizons! (Watch our video called "Maybe I just need more time for results"). I totally respect people who want to try a natural route first, but if you're going to give it a go, keep an eye on those results horizons so that you can assess during those windows for results, and if necessary, navigate to better-studied interventions.
@@PerfectHairHealth Actually, only selenium sulfide paste 2% helped me to get rid off dandruff. Even Ketoconazole couldn’t help.
Good video.
Thank you!
What do you think of excess body hair and solution for it.
Caused by DHT, laser
Congrats Rob. Once you start getting haters who dedicate that much time and energy to attacking you, that's when you know you've become successful.
what haters? The other guy gave him credit when he was talking about Finasteride and Minoxidil benefits. Its when he started speculating and presenting it as facts that things went South.
That's not how you measure success. The only way you can prove success is having people participate, document, and show the results.
Were you a hyper responder to finasteride? Your hair looks absolutely perfect. Im shocked that you have an mpb diagnosis with the state or your current hair.
Thanks! My hairline has held up well. My issue is mostly diffuse thinning with a focus at the crown. It's worth noting that for people diagnosed with AGA as teens, my patterning is actually the most common (even for men): retention of hairline with diffuse thinning / crown thinning. See this review (among many others): pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35033390/
No finasteride (although will likely be starting a low dose later this year).
Team Rob! Kevin is jealous of your luscious Mane! How crazy is this?
This was such a polite schooling. I’m going to remember this when I’m tempted to lose my composure when there’s conflict.
Schooling? You should see haircafe reponse that is in fact destroying this guy with facts and logic.
Ehh it was very much more of the same: sensationalizing claims, lying about what I said, improperly citing studies (just see my comments on his video about him misquoting 4 studies in a row about telogen effluvium, if he hasn’t deleted it), and appealing to the emotions of his audience and relying on a confident delivery to masquerade many of his misstatements.
Thank you Rob. Keep up the great work. I've been doing Tom Hagerty's scalp exercise for more than 15 years and have the best hair out of my two siblings (older is completely bald and younger is thinning). Over the years i've come to realise things that have a negative impact on hair health and a big one is an unbalanced gut health and overuse of vitamin supplements. I've been weight training for many years but in the last year I decided to up my game by eating a lot of food including a kilo of yogurt every day and the use of oral vitamin d spray (a work mate mentioned that it increases free testosterone). These improved my gym gains but after months of this regime, i felt as if my scalp was getting firmer. When running my fingers through my hair my scalp felt more defined and bumps and crevices that i never felt before were now being felt! I didn't think anything of it until several more months later and i started getting diffuse hair loss all over my scalp. So i revisited Tom Hagerty's approach on hair loss which included natural foods as opposed to supplements and the use of brewers yeast (yes it's technically a supplement, but more or less a whole food). I ditched the yogurt and vitamin d supplements as well. This research is what led me to you, so as well as doing Tom's exercise, I now employ yours as well and do both. First yours, then Tom's. There are several positive things that i can report on. I feel my gut balance is returning to normal. I did do some research on gut health and apparently there is a specific bacteria that produces biotin(important) and an imbalance of this bacteria can inhibit biotin production(bad). My scalp is thickening up again. I think being scalp aware is very important. The bumps i could feel aren't as prevalent anymore. I do your exercise first, followed by Tom's and for the first time in a long time, i'm feeling an oddly satisfying tingling sensation all over my head. It also feels pumped, similar to how we feel after a good weight training session. While Tom's exercise worked well for me, it never really improved my scalp elasticity, but i'm finding your exercise does!
Most importantly, i can see hair regrowing. I do advocate the natural approach, but i firmly believe that you've got to be completely aware of the bigger picture of what you do and eat as these all will have an effect.
I hope this comment is genuine nd not a promotional fake one..I also think natural approach is best..tell something bout ur hairloss, AGA or TE?
@@HarshKS2 hi HarshKS2, I know the internet has made things difficult to believe these days but I am being genuine here. I believe my hair loss is a mixture of both. My temples had thinned slightly over the years and the situation i described above was definitely TE. I’ve sorted the TE. My hair has thickened back up and is looking great. And my temples are slowly filling in. I have taken before photos, maybe in 12 months time I’ll post them online somewhere. Just a side note, when I re-read Toms approach on his exercise, I noticed a comment that I must have skipped when I first discovered his exercise where he mentioned that he did his exercise a lot and was very enthusiastic about doing it. I only ever did it for about 10 minutes a day and not consistently. Now I’m doing it for much longer and consistently and I’m seeing new hair in my temples that I haven’t seen in years. I’m happy to answer any questions you may have but a big statement that I want to make is that I am being genuine.
@@andrewparker3689 i believe u sir..u had thick hair since beginning or thin like me?btw even if i had thin hair it was silky nd covered whole scalp completely.. never had any problem till early 2022 when my hair started shedding..now I've realised that its prolly cus i lost weight in dec 2021(19y old then )nd jan 22..so that trigged TE?now I basically have more thin hair in middle..my middle region is losing more hair nd scalp visible but from front it seems fine,i mean not as bad as crown middle region,nd can see baby hair on hairline..I took 1y to diagnose it TE..ik its bit dumb..but what do u think..nd yeah I sometimes feel itch in scalp nd those days I lose way more hair, sometimes I lose barely few..just washed my hair w lemon juice nd baking soda to remove scalp buildup..I sometimes have digestive issues too,thats why started walking after every meal nd regularly taking Amla(Ind gooseberry) nd Aloevera juice..Thanks
Good vid Rob 👌
This is a true researcher's answer to a hate video. Thank you Rob for making it, it's a really good response and I learned some new things thanks to it.
Where is the link to the full podcast?
ua-cam.com/video/UuiTNHoN0Tw/v-deo.html
This is a good response. I want to love Kevin's enthusiasm...but his delivery and mildly irrational combativeness make it difficult to feel as though he's being entirely objective. He mentions some good data, but a sensible person cannot really trust a source that sort of makes a joke of things, going on about testosterone being "alpha" and DHT being a "pussy beta" chemical. I like the man, but it's jarring.
Your content is THE best i ever seen . The problem is YOU dont keep it short.
I shared one of your videos on discord and 90% of the responds was “I am not going to watch 30min video”.
PLEASE its 2022 keep the content sharp and short! Thank you
Great feedback. We’ll make it happen!
I once read that the increased prevalence of mpb in Asian populations is attributable to... a) increased meat consumption which raises testosterone levels, and b) adopting a more westernized diet which is pro inflammatory.
The point Kevin was trying to make about you having or not having AGA is so absurd. Even if you didn't or don't have AGA it doesn't mean you're not good at what you do or that you can't practice what you do. It's like telling an oncologist they can't treat someone's cancer because they themselves doesn't have cancer. 🤦♂️
yeah but people without male pattern baldness often misrepresent what 'worked' for them. eg a young guys hair goes back a tiny bit at the front, perfectly normal just moving to a mature hairline, he panics thinking he has male pattern baldness and jumps on minox, he then claims minox stopped his hair loss dead. Reality is minox did nothing for him as he did not have male pattern baldness
Hey Rob nice video but it is really hard to believe you once suffered from AA and managed to stabilize it without finasteride.Looking at your current hairline it's just really hard.
Rob never claimed that his hair loss was hairline recession. He's shown in pictures that there was a bald spot growing on the back of his head. Which a common pattern of development for AA
@@skyfox4072 yeah right,and he fixed it without the most proven medications for hair loss.
@@dimitarmartinovski8101 like a lot of other guys in his community.
@@heikorudi6105 whatever...
I personally believe Rob was misdiagnosed… believe it or not even though someone has the title of “Doctor” they can still be wrong. Not saying that Rob didn’t have a different type of hair loss which he addressed and fixed. Either way I’m a fan of Rob and Kevin, I think they’re both great info sources for hair loss.
Kevin needs to, first of all, take a tranquilizer.
Amazing video. Love how you stick to the facts and take the high road. Kevin doesn’t want the truth bad enough to do the same depth of research that you are willing to do. The only scenario where someone deviates from the facts is when they have an agenda, which means they want the outcome to be a certain way prior to seeing the data.
oh, and I should mention I’m a member of Rob’s community and my hair is regrowing like crazy thanks to what I’ve learned. Keep up the great (scientific) work.
Thanks for watching Brian! And congrats on your progress.
I saw your comment exchange on Kevin’s channel. I thought it was ironic how Kevin made false presumptions about your treatment plan based on his false presumptions about the site.
I am thrilled that you’re seeing improvements, and I hope they continue!
@@PerfectHairHealth Yes, I counted 4 (false) assumptions in his reply and that’s when I realized any further engagement would be a waste of time.
Thanks man! I’m excited. Progress photos coming soon :)
Are you using finasteride?
Kevin is vegan. Cannot be trusted
I disagree I trust Kevin. His information saved my hair. I lost a lot of ground taking advice from channels like this
The fact that you’re having an interview with PAUL SALADINO is enough to not watch anything that you post😂
i saw his video and now i am watching yours. you seem more balanced with facts.
There is so much bad information here on internet, i need to look into claims made by both videos but yes you are giving facts which are believable
My wife has hair regrowth with onion juice, she took before and after pics. So I'm gonna try it once a week like recommend.
🤔🤔🤔
Good luck 🤣
I love Hair Cafe, but Perfect Hair Health absolutely buried Kevin Man! 🔥🔥 King of the hair loss research education space!
I discovered your chanel almost by mistake. Coming from an all bald bloodline, beeing (semi) bald never truelly bothered me (I'm 45 y/o), and I never ever considered surgery or drugs an option for what is just a minor annoyance in my perspective.
Still, I found your work interesting and thought "why not" since there isn't much investement outside of comitment.
After just 3 weeks of detumescence massages, I got amazing results regarding my (huge) dandruf problem. You had my attention from then on. I was not even thinking of the scaling part of my scalp when trying out scalp massages.
You have to understand I've always been plagued with serious dandruffs, and that I had yet to find ANYTHING that would remotely help outside of topic cortisnone.
Anyways, to the point: there do is something that bothers me. You say you suffered from early balding. Wouldn't it be easyer to show the world some back in the days familly photos rather than some questionable doctor presription? This won't stop me from following your work, but I do believe you are lying regarding your hairloss.
Sincere regards
did the detumescence therapy reduced your dandruff?
@@miresoman1769 yes. No idea how but it is giving me very notable results with my dandruf problem
He had balding on his crown...
Did you ever try ketoconazole?
I remember the first video I open up one of his videos haircafe the minute he opened his mouth I literally close the video 😅
yea, that's usually how people form their opinions. Based on arbitrary reasons such as how a person sounds, how they "feel" about that person as opposed to relying on actual data to make up their opinions. People like these are the target of the snake oil salesmen.
These arguments are quite literally splitting hairs. Fact is virtually nothing comes close to finasteride in terms of treating male pattern baldness and the risk of side effects are low. I know because i take it and it works, and the way i dose it i experience no negative sides. Kevin is absolutely correct about the unnecessary fear mongering and pfs isn't backed by clinical research. Would recommend you folks watch that channel a bit more in depth yourselves. His response video was outstanding.
I like how he’s doing what Kevin was bashing him on. Cherry picking. Rob English mad. Long live Kevin Mann and Haircafe. This comment will be deleted most likely for “productive conversations”
Hey Robert I was going to fill my email details out then I saw that there’s some kind of costs associated once you then lodge your email details, this is a tad worrying and a little unfair and if that’s the case … I hope it’s not abit of misrepresentation … can you confirm that is the case or not ie ..that you have any “ad on “hidden cost” before I send in my email details ? I just want as you’ve offered ..the free 7 day info about the massaging instructions ? Cheers Andrew
There's no hidden cost, you get a bunch of emails explaining a bunch of stuff that's all. But on their website you can buy an expensive membership that i don't have but understand supposedly has more content and discussions on different topics to so with hair loss and I think it might include a personal assessment and treatment plan or that light be another thing he sells. The emails are free though and contain a lot of seemingly interesting information. However I do wonder if the need for daily emails to receive it instead of simply posting it all on UA-cam is a way to increase the chances people eventually buy something. That said it could also be to increase the chances people will actually go through all the content to better understand what they are being suggested to do rather than jumping on a small bit of information such as the first email that mentions scrap massage and then getting mad when it doesn't work. If you're not weak willed though it's free so not much to lose and you can always cancel the emails or send to spam if you decide you're no longer interested.
Kevin is good but your videos by far the main educational content out there and Kevin should take it easy while talking otherwise people will be forced to believe that minoxidil can’t only raise your heart rate but your mouth running rate as well lol
Kevin is most logical and genuine person I’ve come across about hair loss even if he can come across harsh. Everyone else is either promoting a product or company or either getting hyping up weak alternatives with little evidence.
I have to disagree...that person would be Rob. I agree that Kevin is most of the time rational and genuine because I have watched a few videos of him but in the video attacking Rob he went deeply off the rails and was loooooot more emotional than rational and heavily misrepresenting Rob's view on hair loss.
@@eagleelisei How is promoting natural products genuine? They clearly don’t work
If a person has to be logical, then he must provide UNBIASED opinion, Kevin is definitely not unbiased.
@@Dan-ul1sf Not for everyone, not in every situation. Just like propecia and minoxidil don't always work :) the thing is this hair loss problem is a lot more nuanced and complex than just: uuh DHT bad -> block DHT with a pill. That's the truth. I don't know if you watched the whole video when it gets to the botox studies that Kevin got very wrong (in scalp vs intra muscular) but how do you explain that with the only DHT model?! The DHT problem is only a piece of the hair loss puzzle...a major one no doubt but there are also other pieces.
@@HawxWon Watch the whole video of Rob and after please tell me which part was biased
Not only your nice to look at but also your voice and how you handle your videos wonderful
Hair loss community beef I Stan Rob
I came to this video because I had this misfortune of watching part of one of Kevin’s “critique” videos. It only took a few seconds to see the intellectual dishonesty in his presentation. His entire approach is a giant multí-faceted straw man argument. His mention of killing animals is a tell. He has a vegan superiority complex, and it typically leads to jdeological ‘othering’ and attacks of this nature. The emotional nature of his presentation also reveals quite a bit of cognitive dissonance, so he really cannot be trusted as a source of reliable information on any health-related subject.
He is a a reliable source since he can actually read studies and explain it to viewers.
Kevin has evidence on his side, you on the other hand have got nothing and are some angry bald man.
Hello rob, I'm a newbie here.
My hairline is receding clearly.I want to take responsibility for my condition to stop or also try to reverse it .I also want to educate myself.Pls suggest me where and how do I start.
Feel free to check out other videos on this channel! A great starting point is “5 secrets the hair loss industry doesn’t want you to know”. That’ll give you an idea as to what your options are.
hi bro any updates?
I don't get why those guys don't understand that you can have multiple hair disorders at once? You can have alopecia areta AND male pattern baldness at the same time AND thinning from thyroid issues AND thinning from zinc deficiency
It happens more frequently than people believe! This review found that 12.5% of scalp biopsies had multiple hair loss types present:
Wohltmann WE, Sperling L. Histopathologic diagnosis of multifactorial alopecia. J Cutan Pathol. 2016 Jun;43(6):483-91. doi: 10.1111/cup.12698. Epub 2016 Apr 8. PMID: 26956781.
Moreover, scalp biopsies don't necessarily come attached to patient health evaluations. It's also possible for a lot of these patients to be facing subclinical degrees of telogen effluvium (as mentioned in the video) from seasonality, nutrient imbalances, etc. For these reasons, I think the prevalence of multiple alopecia types is much higher.
I have heard world leading dermatologists clearly state that you can have multiple hair disorders at once.
What do you think about Kevin Mann saying in one of his videos that there is NO SUCH thing as post-finasteride syndrome. That there are no side effects, because I have heard over and over there are. And when you think about mechanism of action, it makes sense. I have been holding off trying anything because I do not feel it is worth the risk.
We have an article that should help! perfecthairhealth.com/what-is-post-finasteride-syndrome-pfs-is-it-real-and-what-is-its-prevalence/
Id suggest you not take it. If there was a 1/1,000,000 chance to have what happened to me it's not worth it in the slightest
I like both of you guys. Related to #1, Isn’t part of your education program that we need to be certain about AGA vs TE? I believe in your book you do mention that you were misdiagnosed with AGA, stopped taking Minoxidil and that after a battery of blood tests, you realized you actually had a gluten issue even though you didn’t have explicit symptoms from eating gluten which was causing TE?
I appreciate this video a lot. I've discovered Kevin Mann recently. He strikes me as a very charming bully and I've been wary of trusting his info too much.
Some of his videos are great, and I support the overall objective of his channel: to give people more confidence to try finasteride. It’s unfortunate that Kevin cannot decouple the delivery of that message from his desire to bully, ridicule, and create memes out of people he disagrees with. He also seems to have no issues gaslighting or deliberately misrepresenting people for the growth of his channel or to satisfy his own love for attention. It’s that last part that is so hard to reconcile, because it implies he evaluates people, papers, and his own opinions using different sets of criteria. If you want to be trusted as a scientific communicator, all three of those things need to be held to an equal standard.
Male 30 years old, no relatives or family members with male pattern baldness. I started dieting and exercising due to being overweight, lost 40lb pounds. One month ago i started suffering hair loss/thinning hair, stinky hair after bathing and itchy scalp for the first time in my life. Is hairloss due (weightloss, inadeuaque nutrition , underfueling and hitting the gym too hard) reversible? I cant distinguishing between aga and telogen effluvium, i have a mix of hairs shorter 3 than 3cm.
all reversible
After this video, he became Kevin Boyy
I'm waiting for the diss track
Kevin is the 🐐 but this channel is great as well.
Kevin is sponsored by chinese finasteride manufacturers
@@xyzmediaandentertainment8313 You're legitimately insane, seek help
@@xyzmediaandentertainment8313 Kevin is vegan
Pictures please Rob. There must be picture a when you are dealing with this, make pattern baldness is a generic term Rob, anyway your videos are interesting
You back up all of your opinions with Science and I like the way you debate. Keep up the good work!
As for TE, I can say I have probably experienced this. I joined the military and ever since I joined, I noticed heavy recession among my temples and thinning towards the front of my hair (never noticed this before I joined). It made me incredibly stressed and it heightened my anxiety. I was also in a toxic relationship during this time, and my anxiety/depression was out of wack for several months. It wasn't until I started get my shit straightened out, anxiety under control, that I have noticed my temples grow back and my hair start to thicken back up.
I was on finasteride, minoxidil, Nizoral, and microneedling, but I wasn't seeing results until I got my anxiety under control. I am sure I had both, androgenic alopecia and TE, but I believe the TE is what was causing more negative effects on my actual hair, because my hair was noticeably thicker before I joined the military and I don't think androgenic alopecia would have progressed that quickly, in that short of time frame.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing your perspectives about this. There are some really interesting twin studies demonstrating the interactions between AGA and TE more clearly: specifically, female twins with female pattern hair loss can bald at different rates, and that this is predictive based on the number of TE-related events they've reported throughout their lives (trauma, childbirth, stress, even chronic low-grade stressors like smoking).
I'm really happy to hear you've been seeing results since seeking FDA-approved treatments and getting your anxiety under control. I hope you continue to see progress!