Thank you to captain Darrell yourself and all involved in this incredible series. I hope to see captain Darrell again even if the subject isn't the Fitz.
Just imagine being captain Cooper, making it to safety, then being asked to go back out in that terrible storm by the coast gaurd. You can hear the apprehension in his voice, but he knows what he has to do. Those men are a special group.
You and Captain Walton are such an inspiration for maritime enthusiasts like me. If this is the last video with you two together, give my thanks to Captain Walton!
@@darrellwalton938 as a new fan I would love to see more! I like the videos on other maritime tragedies on the Great Lakes and elsewhere too! Maybe some discussions on the more positive sides of Great Lakes shipping history would be cool too? In terms of people losing their love of sailing on the Lakes however: My great great great grandfather was Captain James Hopwood, an English sea captain who sailed the Pacific, mainly ports Taiwan, China, New Zealand and Australia and often all the way back to London too. He later settled in Manistee, MI and after after only a few journeys on the Lakes he was done. He had survived multiple wrecks in the Pacific and Atlantic and he said in a letter that if he "sailed anymore on these Lakes they would become my grave". He operated an inn and tavern in Manistee after leaving the water behind.
I work in the Canadian fleet. I rode a ship from Ireland to NY City in February. A winter Atlantic crossing. Had 30 foot seas foot for 10 days. Didn’t get sea sick. I got seasick 3 times and always on Lake Erie during 40 knot blow outs. The confusing seas, is what kills you.
I truly hope there is a NEXT season! You guys are pure magic together! Happy New Year and God Bless to you both and your families!!! Thank you guys for ALL your knowledge and stories!
@HistoryMysteryMan it is really good work that the two of you are doing. It provides insight and remembrance of the Fitz to a whole new generation and you do it in a way that captivates your viewers. We can't wait for more! Just want to give some positive feedback and inspire confidence! Thank you both! HMM I think your doing a great job on your channel!
Great series! Thanks for the efforts! Hopefully we get video of Captain Darrell at November's bell ringing. Gone but not forgotten. May their memories be blessed!
Consider doing a weekly show, boys. As much as we all love your Fitzgerald talks, there’s plenty of wrecks to cover on the Great Lakes to keep the conversations going for years. It would be an absolute hit.
@ you don’t only have my vote on that one, sir. I think a lot of folks would agree. You and the Cap’t have great chemistry and feed off each other well. You guys crack jokes and dive into a lot of information to keep the conversations alive.
Time to settle in with some Hot Cocoa and enjoy more great stories with Mr. Don and Captain Darrell. Thank you both for all you do. Happy New Year to you both and your loved ones
Been a good run of vids. Any man or woman that lost their life to provide us young folks the comforted life we get to live and provide the commodities we need to survive, we stand on the backs of working men like this that gave their live’s to keep America going. To answer an earlier question you two posed to each other, I’m 30 years old and live in North Carolina. I learned of the fitz through Mr lightfoot’s song, but have developed a healthy obsession with all content regarding Great Lakes and ships. Learned about the Daniel J and the Carl D, so to answer your question- us younger folks certainly do care and know of the Big Fitz, and you fellas keep their memories alive with your story telling. I’ve been obsessed with all the vids you guys have done and the respect and care you take to tell the story with respect to those lost. This 30 year old certainly does respect and know of the bad boys that used to roam the Great Lakes!
You guys are just awesome. Thank you both for all the information and hard work. Lord bless the lost souls on the Fitz and all who went down. Lord bless the families as well.
*Anderson, this is the Fitzgerald. I have a fence rail down, two vents lost or damaged, and a list. I’m checking down. Will you stay by me till I get to Whitefish?* Therein lies the mystery. What actually happened to cause all those issues simultaneously? I really think they may have bottomed out near Caribou Island, and compounded with all the other unrepaired maintenance issues over the last few years she sailed, the Fitzgerald started losing buoyancy, and the waves that went over the Anderson's pilot house later that evening were the ones that ultimately drove the Fitzgerald straight to the bottom of Lake Superior.
Thank you for the series on the fitz,I've been in Southeast kansas since 82,however I grew up in north central Indiana in a little town of warsaw,I was 7 and my brother had just been born a few months before she went down ,I remember it on the news and it was such a huge story then that its always stuck with me and i look up the great lake stories and the Fitz is always at the top of that list.a lot of ships have been lost on the last voyage of the year it's nuts.thanks for all your efforts on this series I'll be waiting for more
Noooo not the season finale 😢 your talks are an absolute joy to watch and listen to. Thank you for the time and energy that you guys have brought us and most importantly keeping the fitz and her crew memory’s alive and never forgotten
I'm glad these boats all anchor now. I've seen the Blough close up. It's a giant. That it anchored that night is significant. Always good to see you guys!
Many, many thanks to you, Don and Captain Darrell, for passing your knowlege on to us. History is important and it is important to preserve as much as we can for future generations as well as to honor those brave men. I can hardly believe this is the conclusion. You both are so thoughtful and engaging; you fit so well together. I hope we see the two of you together again. There are plenty of stories yet to be told! Many regards and much respect! ❤
We are presently following up on several “leads” of shall we say, “people in the know”, that are willing to be interviewed. We will see how that works out. Thanks for watching!
Like many here, I applaud your work on bringing up the less known factors with the loss of this ship. For sure it wasn't just the storm that did it in, but as noted repairs not done that allowed too much water to get into the ship, causing a list that may have affected it handling, in turn its heading, command mistakes, possibly causing a partial grounding, and ability to stay afloat. You also didn't have then the guidance tech (GPS for one), more accurate and timely weather reports, better communications. Even in recent years, ships still sink for terrible mixes of issues, for example the El Faro.
All good and valid points; thanks for sharing them here. So many factors play into the sinking of the Mighty Fitz; it'll be an ongoing discussion for years. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Great point! And like the Fitz, the El Faro had deferred maintenance. In the case of El Faro, I think negligence on the part of the Captain was also a huge factor, just my opinion from what I've read.
Glad you both mentioned Tony Packos. Worked there back in the mid 90's. I remember the Cake Walkin Jazz band, Joe the magician. I would go under Front St to the grey building across the street. I would work the restaurant on the weekends and was promoted upstairs to the office area. Met many famous people upstairs ( including all the cast from MASH). I would run to the store for Nancy once a week. She was tough as nails and sweet at certain times. She always let me keep the change. I am part Hungarian and when the Birmingham festival would start and the streets were blocked off, they were the best of times. Miss the hotdogs with chili sauce. And I remember when they used to serve the full dog. Think they still have hotdog specials on Tuesday. We all need to meet there some Tuesday night. Also my parents have found the slides which were taken back in the early 70's. I am hoping i can find pictures of the ships. I am mostly certain they have pictures of the Fitzgerald. Let me know at some point to meet on a Tuesday.
Great stories David! I always wanted to go upstairs at Packos...just to see what's up there. What do you mean by going "under Front St. to the gray building across the street"? Are you talking a tunnel of some sort? You got to meet the MASH crew...how cool! Two dogs for the price of one on Tuesdays...let's do it! Love to see the pics of the Fitz if you find them. HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan yes sir, the grey looking building is where they make the vats of chili and hot dog sauce. They would bring it over on a cart system underground. I dont know if they still use the building currently. The offices upstairs was old. Tony Jr, his brother and the rest of us ( secretary's and billing) were also upstairs. I worked in the shipping part when I moved upstairs. It was great times. We definitely have to meet on a Tuesday night. Or set up plans and coordinate with everyone.
Yeah...once the story of the Mighty Fitz grabs hold, it never lets go. I have often thought about if it is possible to solve the mystery. I used to believe it was impossible to solve; but I'm becoming more of a believer...that the mystery can indeed be solved...thanks! HMM
A GREAT finale HMM and Captain Darrell! Thank you both for another amazing season of interviews. I learned so much! I know a LOT goes into these sessions, but if there's any way you can give us a session or two between seasons I'm sure I'm not the only one who would greatly appreciate it! Also, Captain Darrell, where can you get one of those pen knives? Stay safe and healthy guys, you're both the BEST!!!
Its a great ride on the badger, A buddy of mine and I took our bikes on the ship serveral times over the years. Its great listening to the both of you.
@@HistoryMysteryMan My memory may be failing me, but back in 1979 when I got my Merchant Mariner's Document in Toledo it seems like I got my photo taken at Packo's Portraits. Did they or a relative also own a photography business?
Hello guys!!! Enjoying this series, been watching for the last several years: it's so sad to sorta realize that, in the end, the need to make that ONE MORE trip to get those FEW MORE dollars (especially, repairs that SHOULD'VE been done but were delayed for somewhat obvious reasons) played a HUGE part in the tragedy of the Fitz. I HOPE the necessary things have been learned, so that this NEVER happens again.
@@HistoryMysteryMan Honestly you guys could talk about anything and it would be "must see" viewing! Realizing the logistics are a factor, and seconding @BodyChamp96's request, how about posting just an audio conversation between you guys? That way you wouldn't need to get together in person but between seasons us fans could enjoy your collective wisdom and stories!
My script includes hitting the shoals at Caribou. It’s so reaffirming to hear these conversations. Makes me realize I wasn’t off base after all. You and Captain Walton make excellent content together. Greatly enjoying these videos! Robert Rafferty’s daughter told me stories about going to Tony Packos. So cool to see it in video.
Even before Capt. Darrell talked about rushing faster to get off thin ice, my mind went to the day I was driving with my teen daughter behind me in the backseat, driver's side. We were in a stretch where there is just one street that meets that road at a T intersection, and that street happens to be aimed at the setting sun. And it was late in the afternoon, so the sun was low. I was driving a tan colored car, and there was a woman stopped at that intersection waiting on a long line of vehicles heading in both directions. In one of those events where everything goes slow motion, I saw the back of that woman's head as she watched for traffic to clear from her left, which was oncoming traffic to me. And when that traffic cleared, she pulled straight across that lane and stopped. I was wondering what on earth she was doing. Obviously making a left-hand turn, but to stop right in the lane of traffic was bizarre, because there were cars coming from that way. And then her head swung to gauge traffic in my lane, but I could see her eyes look past my little tan car, and there was nobody behind me. I thought about stepping on the brake, but she was on the move already, and I knew she would have slammed into my daughter. So I floored the gas pedal, and she smacked into my wheel well, right behind the rear passenger door. Might have saved my daughter's life by speeding up, definitely saved her from serious injury.
Wow! Love this story...quick thinking on your part to save your daughter. I like to think I would have done the same thing, but we can never know until we're in those situations. Good on you to be able to keep your head through all that. Thanks for sharing your story here. HMM
HMM and Captain Walton, A Hand Salute and a Hearty Thank You For All That You Do! You've Opened My Eyes To A Few Different Things That Could Have Happened On the S.S. Fitzgerald. As You Have Stated Each of the Great Lakes Can Be Brutal In Its Own Way. The Worst Sailing I've Been In, Was In the North Atlantic! You Have Some Nice Memorabilia and A Neat Little Pen/Knife. Hoping the Series Will Continue at a Later Date and Time? Until Then Fair Winds and Following Seas and You Both Be Safe! Randy
Thank you for this series, I have read so many books and articles on this sinking and Captain Walton explains very succinctly how this was most likely the "swiss cheese model of accident causation", i.e. failure due to a combination of random weaknesses and events over a period of time. Please thank Captain Walton for me.
7:15 You are correct! The ferry is a nice, safe way to experience the lake. Way back in June of '79 just after high school, my buddy and I took the Badger from Ludington to Milwaukee. There was a stiff breeze blowing when we boarded. As we cleared the breakwater and turned into the "Big Lake" (as we called it), within a few miles we hit a pretty rough blow. At first, we were having fun out on deck. The wind was so strong, we could hold our coats out like mini sails, and it would push us along the deck. Looking over the bow, we estimated the waves about 10 feet. It was mezmerizing to see how the big ship plowed straight through the waves, steering a straight course for Milwaukee, 6 hours away. After some of that, we began to feel kinda sick, so we got a stateroom and hit the bunks for a few hours!
Say it ant so 😢 the last episode of the season already.. seriously some of the best content on UA-cam. I gotta agree McSorley knew they were in dire trouble and was making a run for it. “Holding on” with everything they had. Right up until the end. You gotta know that he knew and the crew too, why else would anyone want to go “out on deck” in that storm if it wasn’t life or death? I mean something extremely important must have needed their attention to go out on deck and for the captain to say NO!! What were they going to do? What was so important? secure that loose propeller? Or maybe try to fix a hatch cover.. Or maybe launch a lifeboat..??
All great questions. Something on deck needed serious attention, but the Captain wouldn't permit it for fear of losing his men, which, sadly, ultimately happened. Thanks...HMM
HNY HMM and CAPT Darrell! I love this series and I’m looking forward to the next iteration later in the year. This year’s discussion brought a new angle that needs to be explored further.
Amazing work Darrell and yourself are doing in regards to the Fitz. We need to reach out to our governments and see if we can get new updated images and information on the site. I would be very interested in a measurement of long the bow and stern sections are that lay on the bottom. Then take those totals and try to find out how much of the mid section was destroyed. There may be weak spots in the mid sections during its dry docking that caused that much damage. Keep up the great work!
Thanks...as best as we know at this point, there's about 200 feet missing from the middle. But yes, it'd be nice to get some updated images for sure. HMM
Really appreciate all the research and information. Thank you guys! However I did read that Fred Shannon the police officer who dove on the Fitz noted in his report that the Chadburn was at “Stop” and the telegraph was laying on the floor of the bridge. Also noting the secured Open doors both on the bow and the overturned stern potentially indicating a general alarm. It maybe interesting to contact him and confirm.
This entire series with yourself and Capt. Walton is like sitting in on a good conversation at a restaurant, only thing missing is food&beverages….. enjoy all of the HMM videos you produce, but none moreso than the Great Lakes maritime-related content and the Edmund Fitzgerald discussions in particular. Interesting that you both discuss the heading that the bow section is on, and how much it varies from the disclaimed heading. This only adds to the distrust….and shoots the bottom out of the official narrative IMHO. Just like the X-Files tagline, “the truth is out there”. Hope to see this continue next “season”, and for you to be able to finally make it up to the Soo and Whitefish Point. Heck, if the times coincide, I’ll spring for lunch/dinner at the Lockview Restaurant. All the best and continued success in 2025!
An off the wall question for Captain Darrell. Back in 1979 when I worked with the hiring hall in Toledo (and got a temporary job on the Courtney Burton) it was run by a guy by the name of Bill Kishel (I may be misspelling his name). I think he had been a sailor for Oblebay Norton. Nice guy, really helpful and gave me some good advice on life not just helped me get a job on a boat. Any chance you sailed with or know Bill? I always wondered what happened to Bill and if he might still be alive. Just thought I'd ask. Thanks!
Ive seen crazy weather on Lake Simcoe in Ontario ... cant imagine Superior ... as a kid , my fathers 24ft Thundercraft Magnum ... I was 6 ft & couldnt see over the swells
Don, major congrats and an immense thank you to Capt. Darrel and yourself for another impressive and informative discussion into this mystery that has captivated us for an approaching 50 years. I can only imagine what a privilege it has been to have been front and center with a mariner such as Capt. Walton to acquire such detailed information from. Without hesitation, if you two confirm a meet together at Tony Packo’s, let me know and I’ll be there waiting. First round is on me. Even still, I look forward to a hopeful connection next trip I make over to the Maritime Museum in Toledo. Until then, take care, stay well, and keep up with your curiosity and investigative instincts.
I am a Yacht Captain who grew up on the Lakes and am mostly salty now. Doing another Atlantic crossing in a few weeks. I'd bring my crew in and the insurers were leery of Great Lakes boys. After a few trips they said we could deal with more conditions than the guys who grew up on the oceans. As you said, you have sea room out there, for days if needed. always go to Packo's when transiting.
Thanks for your input Dave, especially from an ocean-going point of view. See you at Packos! I made one ocean trip in my career, from Long Beach to Sarasota, through the Panama Canal. HMM
You gave a whole new twist to The Pen is mightier than the sword. Have a Happy New Year to you both. And thank you for these great informative videos on the Fitz.
A great way to end this series! The friendly chatter and reminiscing between you and Capt. Darrell is so cool.Some food for thought with the Fitz's heading on the bottom and the fact the Chadburn is still in the full ahead position! Loved hearing Capt. Darrell's stories about the Frantz! So cool you have her wheel. Display it with pride! I collect a lot of things but about the only unique ship related items I have are a custom made Frontenac model and a "3000 days without a lost time injury" plaque from another Canadian freighter. Really hope the ARMCO/ American Valor sails again, but as we discussed in another videos comments, it's a long-shot. I'll have to check out Tony Packo's next time I'm in Toledo too! Not sure what's next for your channel, but just any Great Lakes/ maritime content would be, as would any race car driver interviews. Thanks again guys!
You both deserve a hiatus, I'm sure the research on The Fitz can be pretty time consuming, but in all honesty I could listen to you and Capt Darrell discussing any subject. So if it's Fitz related or not I'll definitely be tuning in. But, you've taken us this far down the Edmund Fitzgerald rabbit hole so I'm looking forward to the next discussion. I hope you both have a very happy New Year.
I thought it broke on the surface, but after looking at the wreck, you can see it crushed itself, i think it was on it’s right side and was down by the second wave touching the floor, and the 3rd pushed it up on end and couldn’t support the weight and collapsed creating the devastation to mid section Think about it,
Wish these discussions wouldn't end...hope you both are able to visit a lake freighter and bring us all along...at some point perhaps... thanks for these production's...see ya later HMM👍👍👊🤘
@HistoryMysteryMan apparently the Roger Blough has been laid up at a port in Conneaut ??.. I think is how it's spelled, since 2022 because of fire damage... might get scrapped.. unfortunately
This entire series with yourself and Capt. Walton is like sitting in on a good conversation at a restaurant, only thing missing is food&beverages….. enjoy all of the HMM videos you produce, but none moreso than the Great Lakes maritime-related content and the Edmund Fitzgerald discussions in particular. Interesting that you both discuss the heading that the bow section is on, and how much it varies from the disclaimed heading. This only adds to the distrust….and shoots the bottom out of the official narrative IMHO. Just like the X-Files tagline, “the truth is out there”. Hope to see this continue next “season”, and for you to be able to finally make it up to the Soo and Whitefish Point. Heck, if the times coincide, I’ll spring for lunch/dinner at the Lockview Restaurant.
@@HistoryMysteryMan it's been years since i watched the movie my mother took and off the top of my 73 year old head that i remember is lots of water splashing and big timbers flying around. i'll have to dig it out and see if the old projector still works.
Absolutely fascinating, thx for gathering this information, both of you. I feel like we know more than ever before, this ship never stood a chance. Money money money, it really is the root of all evil.
Thank you for all the excellent episodes over the past four years. You have enough new stuff for a book! One QUESTION I have from this episode involves the Fitzgerald's course heading on the bottom of the lake at 125 degrees. Couldn't the bow collision and skidding on the bottom have caused a shift to 125 degrees? I'm thinking the Arthur M. Anderson first mate Morgan Clark would have guided them on the correct course, which was 141 degrees? Looking forward to Year 5 later in 2025. Keep up the great work!
Great questions. It's certainly possible that her course changed on the way down...but she certainly bore a true path at the bottom that stretches for a football field. There's way more to the story about the Anderson steering her away from the shoal...but I'm not going to say at this time. Thanks for watching...HMM
Could be multiple issues. I admire you both so much. Great detective work. Much more than hatch covers. Keep up the great work. Can't wait for next one.
I was always wondering where he had throttle set at so it was full ahead so he tried to run for it make me wonder if that why it hit so hard when it went to bottom maybe that why the bid section turned to dust if the mate talk to mcsorley it didn't sound like him I'm pretty sure he was nervous and tired
That's how we know she didn't just break apart and fall to the bottom. She plowed through the Superior lake bottom for a hundred yards or so before she stopped. In other words, she hit bow first and kept going. Thanks...HMM
I believe you are correct on the chadburn theory. There's been a few dives and a few observers have said its in the full ahead position. A few others have said it's in the all stop position, suggesting perhaps they tried to abandoned ship. Though their would have been little if any time for that. But I think we need to lean more toward the full ahead theory. Given she hit the bottom with tremendous force and speed. So many questions we can hopefully one day have answers to.
Thank you to captain Darrell yourself and all involved in this incredible series. I hope to see captain Darrell again even if the subject isn't the Fitz.
Yep...Capt. D is awesome...thanks again for your support. HMM
Just imagine being captain Cooper, making it to safety, then being asked to go back out in that terrible storm by the coast gaurd. You can hear the apprehension in his voice, but he knows what he has to do. Those men are a special group.
It’s the “Code of the Sea”!
You can especially hear the apprehension when he asks Coast Guard Soo 'Do you have any idea what the conditions are out there?...'
You and Captain Walton are such an inspiration for maritime enthusiasts like me. If this is the last video with you two together, give my thanks to Captain Walton!
There’s a lot more information out there to be uncovered that we’re working on! Stay tuned and thanks for watching!
@ an honor, sir! Thank you! Loved your expertise in every video! God Bless!
@@darrellwalton938 as a new fan I would love to see more! I like the videos on other maritime tragedies on the Great Lakes and elsewhere too! Maybe some discussions on the more positive sides of Great Lakes shipping history would be cool too?
In terms of people losing their love of sailing on the Lakes however: My great great great grandfather was Captain James Hopwood, an English sea captain who sailed the Pacific, mainly ports Taiwan, China, New Zealand and Australia and often all the way back to London too. He later settled in Manistee, MI and after after only a few journeys on the Lakes he was done. He had survived multiple wrecks in the Pacific and Atlantic and he said in a letter that if he "sailed anymore on these Lakes they would become my grave". He operated an inn and tavern in Manistee after leaving the water behind.
It would have been nice to meet him! @@meghanmcintosh135
Welcome and thanks for sharing this interesting story. Really sums up how dangerous the Great Lakes can be. @@meghanmcintosh135
Season Finale??!!
We don’t need no stinking
Season Finale !!!😾😾😾
WE WANT YOU TWO 24/7
😸😸😸😻😻😻😸😸😸
I second this
So appreciated Mindy...thanks! HMM
I work in the Canadian fleet. I rode a ship from Ireland to NY City in February. A winter Atlantic crossing. Had 30 foot seas foot for 10 days. Didn’t get sea sick. I got seasick 3 times and always on Lake Erie during 40 knot blow outs. The confusing seas, is what kills you.
Interesting...that's a good way to put it...confusing seas. Thanks...HMM
I truly hope there is a NEXT season! You guys are pure magic together! Happy New Year and God Bless to you both and your families!!! Thank you guys for ALL your knowledge and stories!
God willing...next season is in the works. Although, I'm not sure I can wait that long...might come sooner. Thanks again...HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan it is really good work that the two of you are doing. It provides insight and remembrance of the Fitz to a whole new generation and you do it in a way that captivates your viewers. We can't wait for more! Just want to give some positive feedback and inspire confidence! Thank you both! HMM I think your doing a great job on your channel!
If you guys meet at Packo's, give me a heads up! I'll make the five hour drive for that!! A day with you and Captain Darrell...
Keep in touch...
Great series! Thanks for the efforts! Hopefully we get video of Captain Darrell at November's bell ringing. Gone but not forgotten. May their memories be blessed!
Thanks for watching! That would be a great idea.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this whole series! Thank you both for your knowledge and wisdom and your ernest efforts to unmask the truth of this mystery.
You're welcome; thanks for your continued support! HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan Don is there any ships in Toledo in winter layup yet?
Need more videos with Captain Darrell to keep spreading that wisdom.
God willing and the creeks don't rise...thanks. HMM
Consider doing a weekly show, boys. As much as we all love your Fitzgerald talks, there’s plenty of wrecks to cover on the Great Lakes to keep the conversations going for years. It would be an absolute hit.
Thanks for your vote of confidence. I'll talk to Capt. D about this. HMM
@ you don’t only have my vote on that one, sir. I think a lot of folks would agree. You and the Cap’t have great chemistry and feed off each other well. You guys crack jokes and dive into a lot of information to keep the conversations alive.
Guys, agree 100% she bottomed out . Thanks for bringing this up again. THE fact she was listing was a clear indication she was flooding .
Thank Paul. I appreciate you...HMM
Time to settle in with some Hot Cocoa and enjoy more great stories with Mr. Don and Captain Darrell. Thank you both for all you do. Happy New Year to you both and your loved ones
You're welcome...and Happy New Year! HMM
I could listen to the both of you all day long. Fascinating❤️❤️❤️
Me too
Thanks for watching, Jim; glad you enjoyed it! HMM
Thanks again Rosemary...HMM
Been a good run of vids. Any man or woman that lost their life to provide us young folks the comforted life we get to live and provide the commodities we need to survive, we stand on the backs of working men like this that gave their live’s to keep America going. To answer an earlier question you two posed to each other, I’m 30 years old and live in North Carolina. I learned of the fitz through Mr lightfoot’s song, but have developed a healthy obsession with all content regarding Great Lakes and ships. Learned about the Daniel J and the Carl D, so to answer your question- us younger folks certainly do care and know of the Big Fitz, and you fellas keep their memories alive with your story telling. I’ve been obsessed with all the vids you guys have done and the respect and care you take to tell the story with respect to those lost. This 30 year old certainly does respect and know of the bad boys that used to roam the Great Lakes!
@@redneckfantasyguy1696
We need more people like you!!
Thanks...it's gratifying to know you younger folks have an appreciation for the Great Lake Maritime Industry...so admirable and appreciated. HMM
You guys are just awesome. Thank you both for all the information and hard work. Lord bless the lost souls on the Fitz and all who went down. Lord bless the families as well.
Thanks Susan; we appreciate your support. HMM
*Anderson, this is the Fitzgerald. I have a fence rail down, two vents lost or damaged, and a list. I’m checking down. Will you stay by me till I get to Whitefish?*
Therein lies the mystery. What actually happened to cause all those issues simultaneously? I really think they may have bottomed out near Caribou Island, and compounded with all the other unrepaired maintenance issues over the last few years she sailed, the Fitzgerald started losing buoyancy, and the waves that went over the Anderson's pilot house later that evening were the ones that ultimately drove the Fitzgerald straight to the bottom of Lake Superior.
Interesting commentary; thanks for sharing it here. Stop by anytime...HMM
I could listen to you two for hours. Thank you both for keeping the story alive…
You're welcome...thanks for watching! HMM
Absolutely the BEST on UA-cam. Thank you much Don and Darrel.
You can hear the worry in Bernies voice great video fellers
Thanks Ryan...so appreciated. HMM
A shout-out from Soo, Ont. with memories of Monday Nov. 10.
Always fun and intriguing to listen to Captain Darrell.
Good stuff. Keep the story alive.
Great to hear from the Soo! Thanks Brett. HMM
Thank you for the series on the fitz,I've been in Southeast kansas since 82,however I grew up in north central Indiana in a little town of warsaw,I was 7 and my brother had just been born a few months before she went down ,I remember it on the news and it was such a huge story then that its always stuck with me and i look up the great lake stories and the Fitz is always at the top of that list.a lot of ships have been lost on the last voyage of the year it's nuts.thanks for all your efforts on this series I'll be waiting for more
You're welcome; thanks for your support. I knew some folks in Warsaw...they were sprint car racers...Bimbo and Kevin Atkins. HMM
Noooo not the season finale 😢 your talks are an absolute joy to watch and listen to. Thank you for the time and energy that you guys have brought us and most importantly keeping the fitz and her crew memory’s alive and never forgotten
You're welcome; thanks for your support! HMM
Wish it was longer 😢😊
We're thinking about getting together again soon for more...thanks.
This is a sad sore subject in a lot of ways but I do appreciate you guys bringing it to a life the way you do you two are awesome may God bless you
Thanks Chuck; you are appreciated. HMM
I'm glad these boats all anchor now. I've seen the Blough close up. It's a giant. That it anchored that night is significant. Always good to see you guys!
Thanks again, Michael! I'd love to go aboard the Blough! HMM
Thanks Darrell!
Capt. D rocks!
Excellent work on this subject boys!
Thanks Mark! HMM
Thank you HMM and Captain Darrell.
Both of you keep digging on the Fitz.
You can count on it Roger...thanks again! HMM
Thank you for all the episodes, really appreciate it.
You're welcome; thanks George. HMM
Many, many thanks to you, Don and Captain Darrell, for passing your knowlege on to us. History is important and it is important to preserve as much as we can for future generations as well as to honor those brave men.
I can hardly believe this is the conclusion. You both are so thoughtful and engaging; you fit so well together.
I hope we see the two of you together again. There are plenty of stories yet to be told!
Many regards and much respect! ❤
We are presently following up on several “leads” of shall we say, “people in the know”, that are willing to be interviewed. We will see how that works out. Thanks for watching!
@@darrellwalton938YAY!!! 😊
Maybe I spoke too soon on the "conclusion". I meant for this season, but I'm already itchin to do more...now. Thanks again, MissTerri. HMM
Another enjoyable season HMM , Captain Darrell ! Thanks, looking forward to more in the future .
Thanks again, Ron...more on the way...eventually! HMM
Like many here, I applaud your work on bringing up the less known factors with the loss of this ship. For sure it wasn't just the storm that did it in, but as noted repairs not done that allowed too much water to get into the ship, causing a list that may have affected it handling, in turn its heading, command mistakes, possibly causing a partial grounding, and ability to stay afloat. You also didn't have then the guidance tech (GPS for one), more accurate and timely weather reports, better communications. Even in recent years, ships still sink for terrible mixes of issues, for example the El Faro.
All good and valid points; thanks for sharing them here. So many factors play into the sinking of the Mighty Fitz; it'll be an ongoing discussion for years. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Great point! And like the Fitz, the El Faro had deferred maintenance. In the case of El Faro, I think negligence on the part of the Captain was also a huge factor, just my opinion from what I've read.
So interesting. I've been keeping up with this series. I love stuff like this. Keep it comin.
Thanks...we appreciate your support. HMM
Another wonderful chat. You two are the best of the best!! ⚓️🚢❤️
Thank you so much, as always. I'm go glad you're here...HMM
Always such a pleasure listening to you fellas. Thank you so much for your insightful content. Love it. Happy new year!
Thanks Bruce...and Happy New Year back to you. HMM
Keep it going. This was my high school senior project always been interested in this wreck. Thanks for the time and effort you 2 put into this series.
You're welcome Matt; thanks for your support. HMM
I love your stories, I watch you every it’s, and thank you for your vast knowledge of the Mighty Fitz!
Thanks again, Kristy! HMM
Glad you both mentioned Tony Packos. Worked there back in the mid 90's. I remember the Cake Walkin Jazz band, Joe the magician. I would go under Front St to the grey building across the street. I would work the restaurant on the weekends and was promoted upstairs to the office area. Met many famous people upstairs ( including all the cast from MASH). I would run to the store for Nancy once a week. She was tough as nails and sweet at certain times. She always let me keep the change. I am part Hungarian and when the Birmingham festival would start and the streets were blocked off, they were the best of times. Miss the hotdogs with chili sauce. And I remember when they used to serve the full dog. Think they still have hotdog specials on Tuesday. We all need to meet there some Tuesday night. Also my parents have found the slides which were taken back in the early 70's. I am hoping i can find pictures of the ships. I am mostly certain they have pictures of the Fitzgerald. Let me know at some point to meet on a Tuesday.
Great stories David! I always wanted to go upstairs at Packos...just to see what's up there. What do you mean by going "under Front St. to the gray building across the street"? Are you talking a tunnel of some sort? You got to meet the MASH crew...how cool! Two dogs for the price of one on Tuesdays...let's do it! Love to see the pics of the Fitz if you find them. HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan yes sir, the grey looking building is where they make the vats of chili and hot dog sauce. They would bring it over on a cart system underground. I dont know if they still use the building currently. The offices upstairs was old. Tony Jr, his brother and the rest of us ( secretary's and billing) were also upstairs. I worked in the shipping part when I moved upstairs. It was great times. We definitely have to meet on a Tuesday night. Or set up plans and coordinate with everyone.
The Edmund Fitzgerald is such an intriguing piece of history. Probably a mystery that will never be solved.
Yeah...once the story of the Mighty Fitz grabs hold, it never lets go. I have often thought about if it is possible to solve the mystery. I used to believe it was impossible to solve; but I'm becoming more of a believer...that the mystery can indeed be solved...thanks! HMM
A GREAT finale HMM and Captain Darrell! Thank you both for another amazing season of interviews. I learned so much! I know a LOT goes into these sessions, but if there's any way you can give us a session or two between seasons I'm sure I'm not the only one who would greatly appreciate it! Also, Captain Darrell, where can you get one of those pen knives? Stay safe and healthy guys, you're both the BEST!!!
I'll have to ask Capt. D about the pens. We're already talking about doing more, way before next season. Thanks again, James. HMM
Looking forward to more from both of you. Thank you for all both of you do.❤
You're welcome Kathy; thanks for your support. HMM
This is such a great series . Thank you for doing it. Happy New Year to you and Captain Walton.
Thanks...and a Happy New Year back to you! HMM
Great video! I sure love listening to these interviews. I wish there were more! Thank you for posting these! All the best!
So many thanks! HMM
Lets grab a beer and settle in for a spell!
I'm in!
Its a great ride on the badger, A buddy of mine and I took our bikes on the ship serveral times over the years. Its great listening to the both of you.
Thanks John...we appreciate you. HMM
Haven't taken the Badger but the Lake Express can get pretty active.
Tony Packos was mentioned on Mash. I ordered some of their hotdogs and sauce once. I live in Indiana so it was shipped frozen. Very tasty.
And Corporal Klinger is from Toledo and grew up at Packos. The Chili Dogs were/are great! Thanks...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan My memory may be failing me, but back in 1979 when I got my Merchant Mariner's Document in Toledo it seems like I got my photo taken at Packo's Portraits. Did they or a relative also own a photography business?
Hello guys!!! Enjoying this series, been watching for the last several years: it's so sad to sorta realize that, in the end, the need to make that ONE MORE trip to get those FEW MORE dollars (especially, repairs that SHOULD'VE been done but were delayed for somewhat obvious reasons) played a HUGE part in the tragedy of the Fitz. I HOPE the necessary things have been learned, so that this NEVER happens again.
Well said, Joel; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Season finale with only 12 minutes 😢😢😢 we need more Great Lakes history please fellas! I know there’s more to dig up !
Thanks...I'll talk to Darrell about more...appreciate your support. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Honestly you guys could talk about anything and it would be "must see" viewing! Realizing the logistics are a factor, and seconding @BodyChamp96's request, how about posting just an audio conversation between you guys? That way you wouldn't need to get together in person but between seasons us fans could enjoy your collective wisdom and stories!
My script includes hitting the shoals at Caribou. It’s so reaffirming to hear these conversations. Makes me realize I wasn’t off base after all. You and Captain Walton make excellent content together. Greatly enjoying these videos!
Robert Rafferty’s daughter told me stories about going to Tony Packos. So cool to see it in video.
Thanks so much for your support. I think we're working from the same script. HMM
Even before Capt. Darrell talked about rushing faster to get off thin ice, my mind went to the day I was driving with my teen daughter behind me in the backseat, driver's side. We were in a stretch where there is just one street that meets that road at a T intersection, and that street happens to be aimed at the setting sun. And it was late in the afternoon, so the sun was low. I was driving a tan colored car, and there was a woman stopped at that intersection waiting on a long line of vehicles heading in both directions. In one of those events where everything goes slow motion, I saw the back of that woman's head as she watched for traffic to clear from her left, which was oncoming traffic to me. And when that traffic cleared, she pulled straight across that lane and stopped. I was wondering what on earth she was doing. Obviously making a left-hand turn, but to stop right in the lane of traffic was bizarre, because there were cars coming from that way. And then her head swung to gauge traffic in my lane, but I could see her eyes look past my little tan car, and there was nobody behind me. I thought about stepping on the brake, but she was on the move already, and I knew she would have slammed into my daughter. So I floored the gas pedal, and she smacked into my wheel well, right behind the rear passenger door. Might have saved my daughter's life by speeding up, definitely saved her from serious injury.
Wow! Love this story...quick thinking on your part to save your daughter. I like to think I would have done the same thing, but we can never know until we're in those situations. Good on you to be able to keep your head through all that. Thanks for sharing your story here. HMM
Thanks for sharing your knowledge capt!!
Capt. D rocks! HMM
HMM and Captain Walton, A Hand Salute and a Hearty Thank You For All That You Do! You've Opened My Eyes To A Few Different Things That Could Have Happened On the S.S. Fitzgerald. As You Have Stated Each of the Great Lakes Can Be Brutal In Its Own Way. The Worst Sailing I've Been In, Was In the North Atlantic! You Have Some Nice Memorabilia and A Neat Little Pen/Knife. Hoping the Series Will Continue at a Later Date and Time? Until Then Fair Winds and Following Seas and You Both Be Safe! Randy
Thanks Randy, we appreciate your support! HMM
What a class act, God bless Captain!
Absolutely...thanks! HMM
Everytime a new episode comes out, it makes my day a lot better😊
And my day always gets better just to hear you say that...thanks! HMM
Of all things on YT, love Captain Darrell and his insight....thank you!
Yep...Capt. D is the bomb! Thanks for your support...HMM
Another great video you guys. Brian from Colorado 🤠🦅
Thanks again Brian from Colorado! HMM
Thank you both. Thoroughly enjoyed the series
You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM
Thank you for this series, I have read so many books and articles on this sinking and Captain Walton explains very succinctly how this was most likely the "swiss cheese model of accident causation", i.e. failure due to a combination of random weaknesses and events over a period of time. Please thank Captain Walton for me.
Thanks...I'd be happy to thank Capt. D for you...appreciate your support. HMM
7:15 You are correct! The ferry is a nice, safe way to experience the lake. Way back in June of '79 just after high school, my buddy and I took the Badger from Ludington to Milwaukee. There was a stiff breeze blowing when we boarded. As we cleared the breakwater and turned into the "Big Lake" (as we called it), within a few miles we hit a pretty rough blow. At first, we were having fun out on deck. The wind was so strong, we could hold our coats out like mini sails, and it would push us along the deck. Looking over the bow, we estimated the waves about 10 feet. It was mezmerizing to see how the big ship plowed straight through the waves, steering a straight course for Milwaukee, 6 hours away. After some of that, we began to feel kinda sick, so we got a stateroom and hit the bunks for a few hours!
Sounds like good old-fashioned sea sickness. Other than that, hope you had a great ride! Thanks...HMM
Love watching this series!
Thanks! HMM
Say it ant so 😢 the last episode of the season already.. seriously some of the best content on UA-cam.
I gotta agree McSorley knew they were in dire trouble and was making a run for it. “Holding on” with everything they had.
Right up until the end.
You gotta know that he knew and the crew too, why else would anyone want to go “out on deck” in that storm if it wasn’t life or death? I mean something extremely important must have needed their attention to go out on deck and for the captain to say NO!! What were they going to do? What was so important? secure that loose propeller? Or maybe try to fix a hatch cover.. Or maybe launch a lifeboat..??
All great questions. Something on deck needed serious attention, but the Captain wouldn't permit it for fear of losing his men, which, sadly, ultimately happened. Thanks...HMM
Really enjoyed this season and hope there are more.
God willing...there'll be more. Thanks for your support. HMM
Thanks for your hard work and time invested in these reports. Greatly appreciated.
You're welcome Don...thanks! HMM
HNY HMM and CAPT Darrell! I love this series and I’m looking forward to the next iteration later in the year. This year’s discussion brought a new angle that needs to be explored further.
Thanks...and there is much more to talk about! HMM
Just watched this and it was great ,love the work you do on these videos
Thanks Kevin...so appreciated. HMM
Great series
Many thanks! HMM
Another great show. Would love to hear more great lakes freighter stories this year!
Thanks Brian...always appreciated. I'll talk to Darrell about doing more. HMM
Thanks guys. Great job
Thanks for watching!
Thank you very much gentlemen.
You're welcome very much. HMM
Happy New Year, gentlemen. I am learning quite a bit from your series, and not just about the EF. Thank you.
Thanks...and a Happy New Year back to you. HMM
Amazing work Darrell and yourself are doing in regards to the Fitz. We need to reach out to our governments and see if we can get new updated images and information on the site. I would be very interested in a measurement of long the bow and stern sections are that lay on the bottom. Then take those totals and try to find out how much of the mid section was destroyed. There may be weak spots in the mid sections during its dry docking that caused that much damage. Keep up the great work!
Thanks...as best as we know at this point, there's about 200 feet missing from the middle. But yes, it'd be nice to get some updated images for sure. HMM
Really appreciate all the research and information. Thank you guys! However I did read that Fred Shannon the police officer who dove on the Fitz noted in his report that the Chadburn was at “Stop” and the telegraph was laying on the floor of the bridge. Also noting the secured Open doors both on the bow and the overturned stern potentially indicating a general alarm. It maybe interesting to contact him and confirm.
Fred Shannon passed away several years ago. His book is a very interesting read!
I love your videos so much. Thank you good sirs. 💙⚓️
Thanks...so appreciated. HMM
I like that Cap.Walton!! He's real wild card!
He's the best...thanks again! HMM
2:20 Could the list have come from the load shift? 8:05 Salt of the earth Cpt Darrell ❤ Could listen for hours. Ty HMM and Cpt. Darrell
Good question. She was fully loaded so worth thinking about. Thanks again...HMM
Another great video, thank you fellas so much!!
You're welcome Daniel...thanks again. HMM
This entire series with yourself and Capt. Walton is like sitting in on a good conversation at a restaurant, only thing missing is food&beverages….. enjoy all of the HMM videos you produce, but none moreso than the Great Lakes maritime-related content and the Edmund Fitzgerald discussions in particular.
Interesting that you both discuss the heading that the bow section is on, and how much it varies from the disclaimed heading. This only adds to the distrust….and shoots the bottom out of the official narrative IMHO.
Just like the X-Files tagline, “the truth is out there”. Hope to see this continue next “season”, and for you to be able to finally make it up to the Soo and Whitefish Point. Heck, if the times coincide, I’ll spring for lunch/dinner at the Lockview Restaurant. All the best and continued success in 2025!
Thanks again, bowslap...always appreciate your feedback and support. I'm not sure I can wait till next season; I'm ready to go again now! HMM
An off the wall question for Captain Darrell. Back in 1979 when I worked with the hiring hall in Toledo (and got a temporary job on the Courtney Burton) it was run by a guy by the name of Bill Kishel (I may be misspelling his name). I think he had been a sailor for Oblebay Norton. Nice guy, really helpful and gave me some good advice on life not just helped me get a job on a boat. Any chance you sailed with or know Bill? I always wondered what happened to Bill and if he might still be alive. Just thought I'd ask. Thanks!
He was a very nice guy! Not sure if he is still with us. Thanks for watching!
Ive seen crazy weather on Lake Simcoe in Ontario ... cant imagine Superior ... as a kid , my fathers 24ft Thundercraft Magnum ... I was 6 ft & couldnt see over the swells
Don, major congrats and an immense thank you to Capt. Darrel and yourself for another impressive and informative discussion into this mystery that has captivated us for an approaching 50 years. I can only imagine what a privilege it has been to have been front and center with a mariner such as Capt. Walton to acquire such detailed information from.
Without hesitation, if you two confirm a meet together at Tony Packo’s, let me know and I’ll be there waiting. First round is on me.
Even still, I look forward to a hopeful connection next trip I make over to the Maritime Museum in Toledo. Until then, take care, stay well, and keep up with your curiosity and investigative instincts.
Thanks again, Jeff. We'll keep the channels open for a potential meet-up at Packos. HMM
I am a Yacht Captain who grew up on the Lakes and am mostly salty now. Doing another Atlantic crossing in a few weeks. I'd bring my crew in and the insurers were leery of Great Lakes boys. After a few trips they said we could deal with more conditions than the guys who grew up on the oceans. As you said, you have sea room out there, for days if needed. always go to Packo's when transiting.
Thanks for your input Dave, especially from an ocean-going point of view. See you at Packos! I made one ocean trip in my career, from Long Beach to Sarasota, through the Panama Canal. HMM
You gave a whole new twist to The Pen is mightier than the sword. Have a Happy New Year to you both. And thank you for these great informative videos on the Fitz.
You're welcome...thanks Harry! HMM
Would you consider looking at the case of the MVDerbyshire that sank due to the failure of longitudinal spars
Yes...We've received that request before...worth looking into. Thanks...HMM
I appreciate this man and his insight into the Fitz
Gotta love Capt. D! HMM
👍 as always !
Thanks Tom...HMM
Thank you for this info!!!
You're welcome...thanks for watching. HMM
A great way to end this series! The friendly chatter and reminiscing between you and Capt. Darrell is so cool.Some food for thought with the Fitz's heading on the bottom and the fact the Chadburn is still in the full ahead position! Loved hearing Capt. Darrell's stories about the Frantz! So cool you have her wheel. Display it with pride! I collect a lot of things but about the only unique ship related items I have are a custom made Frontenac model and a "3000 days without a lost time injury" plaque from another Canadian freighter. Really hope the ARMCO/ American Valor sails again, but as we discussed in another videos comments, it's a long-shot. I'll have to check out Tony Packo's next time I'm in Toledo too!
Not sure what's next for your channel, but just any Great Lakes/ maritime content would be, as would any race car driver interviews. Thanks again guys!
Thanks again my friend. Your contributions here in the chat are rewarding to say the least...so many thanks to you! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan thank you very much for your kind words!
Where was the prop blade replaced on the Fitz just before she went down?
Lorain Shipyard.
Darrell...do we know?
It's always a quality video.
Thanks 👍
Thanks again, Gary...HMM
You both deserve a hiatus, I'm sure the research on The Fitz can be pretty time consuming, but in all honesty I could listen to you and Capt Darrell discussing any subject. So if it's Fitz related or not I'll definitely be tuning in. But, you've taken us this far down the Edmund Fitzgerald rabbit hole so I'm looking forward to the next discussion.
I hope you both have a very happy New Year.
I'm already ready for the next discussion. How bout you Capt. D? Thanks Bob...HMM
I thought it broke on the surface, but after looking at the wreck, you can see it crushed itself, i think it was on it’s right side and was down by the second wave touching the floor, and the 3rd pushed it up on end and couldn’t support the weight and collapsed creating the devastation to mid section
Think about it,
Interesting perspective; thanks for sharing it here. HMM
Wish these discussions wouldn't end...hope you both are able to visit a lake freighter and bring us all along...at some point perhaps... thanks for these production's...see ya later HMM👍👍👊🤘
Thanks Elroy; we'll stay on it. HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan apparently the Roger Blough has been laid up at a port in Conneaut ??.. I think is how it's spelled, since 2022 because of fire damage... might get scrapped.. unfortunately
This entire series with yourself and Capt. Walton is like sitting in on a good conversation at a restaurant, only thing missing is food&beverages….. enjoy all of the HMM videos you produce, but none moreso than the Great Lakes maritime-related content and the Edmund Fitzgerald discussions in particular.
Interesting that you both discuss the heading that the bow section is on, and how much it varies from the disclaimed heading. This only adds to the distrust….and shoots the bottom out of the official narrative IMHO.
Just like the X-Files tagline, “the truth is out there”. Hope to see this continue next “season”, and for you to be able to finally make it up to the Soo and Whitefish Point. Heck, if the times coincide, I’ll spring for lunch/dinner at the Lockview Restaurant.
See you at Packos for the addition of food and beverages! HMM
i was at the launching of the Fitzgerald . i also have a 8mm home movie of it that my mother took.
Make sure to get that preserved and have copies made.
@@kimfleury i think i was around 7 years old
Let's do a video with that 8mm footage; you can tell us about what you remember. Thanks...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan it's been years since i watched the movie my mother took and off the top of my 73 year old head that i remember is lots of water splashing and big timbers flying around. i'll have to dig it out and see if the old projector still works.
Absolutely fascinating, thx for gathering this information, both of you. I feel like we know more than ever before, this ship never stood a chance. Money money money, it really is the root of all evil.
Thanks Jim; we appreciate your support. HMM
Thank you for all the excellent episodes over the past four years. You have enough new stuff for a book! One QUESTION I have from this episode involves the Fitzgerald's course heading on the bottom of the lake at 125 degrees. Couldn't the bow collision and skidding on the bottom have caused a shift to 125 degrees? I'm thinking the Arthur M. Anderson first mate Morgan Clark would have guided them on the correct course, which was 141 degrees? Looking forward to Year 5 later in 2025. Keep up the great work!
Great questions. It's certainly possible that her course changed on the way down...but she certainly bore a true path at the bottom that stretches for a football field. There's way more to the story about the Anderson steering her away from the shoal...but I'm not going to say at this time. Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan are you going to bring it up in the next season episodes?
@@TonyHiyaStay tuned!
Could be multiple issues. I admire you both so much. Great detective work. Much more than hatch covers. Keep up the great work. Can't wait for next one.
Thanks...so appreciated. HMM
I was always wondering where he had throttle set at so it was full ahead so he tried to run for it make me wonder if that why it hit so hard when it went to bottom maybe that why the bid section turned to dust if the mate talk to mcsorley it didn't sound like him I'm pretty sure he was nervous and tired
That's how we know she didn't just break apart and fall to the bottom. She plowed through the Superior lake bottom for a hundred yards or so before she stopped. In other words, she hit bow first and kept going. Thanks...HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan must of been rock bed that stop it but that long Wazedigging in at bottom
Another awesome video
Thanks Bob!
I believe you are correct on the chadburn theory. There's been a few dives and a few observers have said its in the full ahead position. A few others have said it's in the all stop position, suggesting perhaps they tried to abandoned ship. Though their would have been little if any time for that. But I think we need to lean more toward the full ahead theory. Given she hit the bottom with tremendous force and speed. So many questions we can hopefully one day have answers to.
Sure would be nice if we knew for certain on the chadburn. Thanks again, Jack. HMM