Playing Preflop When Fish NEVER FOLD | SplitSuit
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2024
- Pick up your copy of Unfolding Poker: www.splitsuit.com/unfolding-p... (& use the code UA-cam to save $10 off any edition via my store)
Francisco asks a great question about playing in fishy poker games where players consistently limp/call preflop and simply refuse to fold when facing isolation raises. While most players avoid raising anything other than monsters and instead implement a wide "limp-behind" strategy - SplitSuit offers another option that is often overlooked. Larger sizing, coupled with the ability to plan ahead, can do plenty of good things that a "typical raise size" would fail to do in this dynamic.
Concepts include the types of hands to limp-behind with, the kinds of hands to AVOID limping with (hint: J♦5♦), and the kinds of sizes that can break even limp/cally players out of their comfort zone. If you play in weaker games with heaps of preflop action - this conversation is a must!
Thanks again to Francisco for sending this question in. If YOU have an interesting hand or question to discuss, be sure to send it in today at: www.splitsuit.com/ask
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Trim your beard and grow an afro to merge your range, you're too polarized.
lol
Too funny!
TKGriffiths What a brilliant and hilarious comment. Bravo!
Awesome analogy - Probably one of the most FUNNY poker comments I've ever read!
Well played, nh
James "no-razor" Sweeney. I LOVE YOU MAN, I HAVE MASSIVELY IMPROVED MY WINRATE SINCE I SUBSCRIBED
Congrats on the improvements Samuele!
My last 1-3 game I raised from 20 all the way to 50. 50 was when I finally got people to start folding. Most hands had atleast 4 callers it was crazy. I hate limping and end up in bad spots later in the hands
it's amazingly pathetic when that happens!
This is unbelievably valuable to people like me who play in things like the WTPT. My uncle and I are small stakes players who a few times a year play bigger events if the bankrolls allow but play a weekly game in that league. When we first started playing he would get so upset that people were calling him regardless of what they had, I'm talking getting sucked out off of 3-5 suited... But we adjusted our play styles and even though you still play the better hand perfectly and the cards have different plans we rarely get angry about it and chalk it up to learning how to play these types of players. Great vid man keep them coming!
Never get mad at the fish. When you tap the aquarium too hard, they run in the corner and stop wanting to play with you. Then you make no money, because you become the fish.
Very nice transitions James! It’s great to see that your editing and video making skills are catching up to your poker knowledge!
Thanks Michael!
Just bought the ebook with audio and i'm only 5 mins in but can already tell this is gonna be a game changer for me. Much appreciated, thanks James and thanks for the discount as well.
You're very welcome Chris. Enjoy the whole thing!
Great advice. Thanks James!
Great beard.
Split-Suit is the Sasquatch of Poker Math.
He's the Math-Squatch.
Finaly someone make good video about this theme.Bravo.Can you make video about 3bet pots,defending and atacking vs differnet opponents: lags,tags,nits?
This is the game I play in live and is so helpful! Thanks Jeff! Going to order the book today
Enjoy it!
Great advice, thanks James! I'm proud i kinda knew the answers beforehand which is a testament to all I've learned from you, thanks! 1)Your background looks good, 2)You may consider zooming out just a bit.
Cheers Jenn!
Really good advice thank you! :D
Analytical accurate awesome. Thx for what you do. Never have enough info
Thanks Brian!
I have been watching all your videdos, and now with this one I just learned you wrote a book!!? I instantly bought it off amazon and am letting my friends know. I wish I knew about it sooner!
I have a few books =) Enjoy! www.splitsuit.com/important-poker-books
I've learned a ton from you in about 6 months. I'm finally getting to the final table with a lot of chips instead of being the desperate low stack.
Great job Doretta!
Honestly bro, you have got to be one of the coolest humans that's ever walked this earth. Such great content with a chill attitude and asking for constructive criticism. Helped my game a great deal....Thank you sir!
Thanks Jon, and you are very welcome =)
Sir, you are awesome!!! Thank you for the tips!!!
You are very welcome Edward!
wow what great content! this is gonna be super useful!
Thanks Andre =)
@@splitsuit I was being sarcastic. lol
@@andremicheaux4863 cool?
Hey James! I'm Francisco, thank you very much for this content. I really appreciate it, learnt a lot. Will keep You updated with my last results. Thanks again, greetings from Spain 😄🍻
Cheers sir!
Thank you for this verry usefoul videos.you ar a very educated guy you have my respect.
Thank you!
I've had this problem when playing a short cash came with everyone on around 50BB, I tried raising bigger but I still got called a lot and more often than not I didn't really flop anything and because we were so short I wasn't really able to bluff at it either, especially multi-way (so I ended up just losing a lot of reasonably big pots). And whenever I tried limping I never knew whether I was ahead or not (unless I had the nuts), which made it super hard to play.
Then u should probably tighten ur range and limp wider
I like it direct and not to fancy stay true to your style in the poker youtube channel world
The Beard has come a long way my friend. How's Doug? We ever gonna get some videos from him too?
This is exactly my homegame. Most of the adjustments i've made already and i try to balance to raise hands like 10js qjs and limp in late position with AKs AQs and sometimes QQ/JJ. In ep
Also what i'm trying out is limp raising. Seems that these calling stations loose their balls when there's a 3bet so you can isolate a raiser.
LRR can do interesting things for sure!
Mind if I ask what video editing program you use? This is great.
Premiere Pro
Been watching almost all your videos and got caught off guard with the face footage 😂
At first I was unbalanced... =P
Thanks for confirming my thoughts after last night's tourney, whole table limped to me on the button ,raised 4.5bb with AK Got 2 callers.Flop comes A67 ,utg throws 3/4 pot in next to act folds and I get my chips in good forcing her all in,she reveals 78 off suit so I'm feeling like I got value before the turn and river roll out 7 7 pmsl .ill try 8bb preflop in same situation next time to isolate but even still,on the flop these fish are getting all in with 1 pair of 7s and the like and I'm getting out drawn over and over again.Starting to think the $25 MTT are to loose and I should play at higher stakes but less frequently
You got an ideal situation. You got a fish to call with a tad under 5 outs and go all in. These monster edges on large pots are what winning is all about. You really don't want too many correct folds, though you will have more variance that way.
Great video. The games I play are all no fold em hold em! 😔😔Thanks for the advice.
The problem is often caused by overplaying hands that at your bottom your range that are hard to play unless you smash the flop. I don't exactly see the value of 10x it pre with hands like 88/JQs/ATo if you still may get 3-4 callers.
Good content here... all these vlogs out there and in 9 mins you wrecked them all w actual content.
Thanks Jamie! What I lack in storytelling I try to make up for with succinct & applicable info =)
"Unfolding poker" is a very useful book for the intermediate player and is written in a smart format.
I have a suggestion for your videos: try using more graphics, points 1,2,3..etc. Then it will be easier for us to follow you 🤗
Thanks Stavros! Noted on the added graphics - it's a balance in video quality & hours spent editing. I'm still working to find that balance =)
Thanks for this informative video. I agree, though I find myself more often in an aggressive game were people like to raise. then bunch of callers.
Had an annoying guy in plo game.(This probably goes for holdem too)
weird 5way dynamic where it went Limp to me. and when I limp behind . Guy to left potted it. not always but very often. So I started to fold hands I did not want to Limp/call. now he stopped potting..
When I opened myseøf it usually went just Call or fold. he did not 3bet and almost never fold..
Tried implement Limp/3bet but never got into that scenario as he just did not raise when I was good. probably saw a live tell on me
Alot of weird hands showed up at river. and even though this was plo. It's really annoying to have these guys on the left.. Love fish to left and Aggro to my right.
Maybe do a video about how to deal with aggressive players on the left? Struggling.. :(
That's a great idea =)
One thing that I have done to combat this is get a seat change button and move to the left of aggressive players if possible. This is for live games. I don’t play online so I’m not sure if that is possible.
If I have something like Ak or aq. And opponent at best has low pair. Should I let it go? Because in that situation they usually check or bet really small (rarely). But no matter how big you bet they call and screw you. They don't care that draw is qq29j and I could have a lot of things.
You lower your Cbet frequency against calling stations, and you bet your strong hands slightly larger, because they're willing to call. You dump most hands you whiff with. Against calling stations, you're going to have to give up some smaller pots to eventually catch them when you have a big hand.
Very enjoyable. Perhaps a shirt that provides some contrast? Or a lighting change. There was an "Evil Genius" floating head vibe. Also it's harder to see that fantastic beard when everything fades to black down there.
I really need to buy a few shirts that aren't black and/or dark navy lol
I like the floating head look!
One or two fish, it's exciting, however, it is very disturbing when majority are fish, they will call any raise, almost never raise so it was an unexciting event. I will use this strategies should I encounter such craziness.
I love your videos but I have beaten the horse to death at this point(meaning ive seen them all, prob rewatched a bunch), if you could post a Hand review maybe like once a month that would be sick , either way good to see you posting again, happy grinding =)
I'm sure I will Tyler - just trying to find a balance with it all =)
excellent
Bro I love your vids
Thank you Dylan =)
this is exactly what I was wondering about after a couple recent sessions, greatly appreciated! Would this apply to tournament poker as well? In the beginning of tournaments I hate to bloat pots and risk my entire stack...
Cheers Steve! As for tournaments, it can still apply - but there are more dynamics at play with rebuy vs. single-life and other MTT-specific factors.
another thing I might do although it is risky is I'll raise exactly what I think every limper will call with aces like say 60 chips at the beginning of a game with a 1500 stack then on the flop I'll go all in, this can be vary dangerous so it is hard to suggest but I had tables where there was 5 limpers at the early stages of the game and obviously all of them will call 60 if they already called 20 so the pot will be 360 including your bet assuming nobody folds and if you expect someone to make a fish bet on the flop like 30 or 60 into a 300 pot I'd let them bet first or even before the flop if you think you could raise 65 or 70 chips and they all will call then do that instead. If you get called you could be beat but you would be surprised how often you'll get a "top pair call" with a duce kicker or even a middle pair but about 1/4 of the time someone will call you that actually has you beat, most of the time everyone will fold and a lot of times you'll get a bad call and knock someone out of the game and take the pot and their chips and you might even get a hitchhiker going for a flush which would be bad because they have pot odds to actually make the call because it would be over 3 to 1 on their money and they do have about a 33% chance at winning making the call justified but ask yourself this "if you win that hand and someone makes a bad call could you win the whole sit and go" or if they all fold could you win the sit and go otherwise? You could stagger your bet with aces or kings and pray someone calls you but if you have been playing tight you are risking everyone folding the hand with a big bet.
Raise the limpers. Raise them big.
I've also found at the micros, it's ok to just give up some of these chips post flop, when you totally miss the board.
Many micro opponents are playing for a different reason. They enjoy playing lots of hands and winning lots of pots and they rarely pay attention to the size of the pot. I let some of these guys pick up my 6 or 7X raise with their ridiculous donk bet on the flop, and they feel good, but they are ultimately setting themselves up to lose a huge pot.
Also, when the regular players behind you call the bigger pre-flop raise they have something playable, and when they 3-bet the bigger raise they have a very, very playable hand.
Raise the limpers. Raise them big.
And tighten your range, if there are multible limpers, as you often see in the early stages on micro stake online tournaments. Its ok to isolate a single limper with J9o from the BTN, but if 4 guys have already limped into the pot, then just let them bust each other, and wait for a better hand.
Who should I raise and to what degree?
I can only say, good luck lol
@@Hexspa if you have high implied odds pre flop, then bet high. Gets the randos off the pot, isolating potentially other monster hands. The rule of poker, is to charge the other players for looking at more cards.
Friendly advice. Manual focus and back the camera up / use a longer lens.
Turn auto focus off.. nice info tho keep it up!
it is so lucky to see a 'calling station' like what he said. maybe backiup 10 years u see that kind of player oftenly , but for now, no more you can expect. everyone know some game. if there is one, just open big, if they like to pay, make them pay the max. and work on your post flop game, let math beat them
I'm sure we've all heard the acronym FOMO. Fear of missing out is also a huge thing in poker, and unless you make your raise scarier than the villains' fear of missing out, then they are going to call. So when you have 3.4 or 5 or more limpers in front of you, making a standard 2.5x or 3x raise is not going to get them to fold. You'll end up playing a bloated family pot, fortunately in position, we hope, and have to be quite skilled to negotiate it.
When you're at a table full of calling stations, is playing tight not the preferred strategy?
If the table is full of them, yes, I'd be much tighter on average.
Good video!
Put the camera into "manual focus" mode, focus once and leave the focus.
In your video, the camera tried to refocus a couple of times, which is annoying :)
Just a small issue though, good content! Like the format.
Cheers! Is there any chance I move forward/backward slightly during recording and end up with an entire video that's out of focus? That's my main fear with going totally manual tbh.
@@splitsuit Sit a bit further from the camera your face is way to close in my opinion
@@splitsuit Is your camera/lens set up something where you can control the aperture? (I'm a photographer, not a videographer, but I know a lot of folks shoot their video with DSLRs or Mirrorless). If you set the depth of field deeper (e.g., f/6 v f/2.8) it will give you room to move without losing focus. You'll lose that creamy bokeh you've got going on, but it will keep you in focus the whole time (and you can obviously dial it in - there will be a 'sweet spot' aperture setting where you're you're maximizing bokeh/DoF while still keeping yourself in focus). You can also move back a bit - what's the focal length of the lens you're using?
I like the initial lighting, btw - going with a stronger key light gives good separation from the BG and keeps you from looking washed out. I don't know what your set up is, but one thing I use for corporate headshots is just a bigass softbox (I have a 4' diameter octobox) a bit off to the side. The angle gives some softer shadowing, but the size keeps the light from being too harsh (specifically, keeps it from being too specular).
Keeping the light head on, consider your angle as well. There's a method of lighting called "Butterfly" lighting (because of the shadow cast under the nose - can't see it on you, ya big hairy man), but it's often used for modeling and 'glamour' shooting because it's so flattering. It's a photography maxim, but it's obviously just as true for video: "We don't photograph things, we photograph light." I'd rather have a mediocre camera and great light than the best camera in the world and bad light (kinda like suits - a $100 suit perfectly tailored will look infinitely better than a $2000 suit that doesn't fit).
Love the videos, thanks for all the insights. It's been great watching my losses shift to primarily bad beats and coolers instead of my own leaks - I mean, I'm hoping to start winning soon, but baby steps, right? ;)
Rob Latimer thanks a ton Rob! I'm using a GH4 with a lumix 15/1.7 lens. I have a diva ring facing me and a floor light behind me that gives that gradient on the back wall. I'm going to record a rack of manual videos today with your suggestions and hope for the best :)
@@splitsuit Oh yeah, if you've got it anywhere near the widest apertures, then dialing that back a bit will likely fix you right up.
The Lumix camera are Micro-4/3, so the crop factor should be 2x, meaning that f/1.7 is the equivalent DoF of a f/3.4 - pretty wide open. Setting it to something like f/3 -f/4 on the camera/lens (making it the equivalent of f/6-f/8 on a full frame) should give you more room to move while still keeping you well in focus. I don't have first hand experience with micro-4/3 though, so I may be a bit off, but that math should be close.
And you're using a ring light? From the reflection in your eyes, looks like you have it above you instead of shooting through the ring? If it's big enough diameter, you can try the latter - it's another flattering light set up (though it may be a bit too 'make-up tutorial' for your tastes...though, on the other hand, there is a reason why it's a popular lighting for make-up, it tends to look good).
Good luck with your new gear/new format.
This kind of strategy (big raises PF) at super fishy tables causes an endless chip bleeding (expecially when multi-tabling). You have to fold a lot of multiway pots. After 30-40 hands you are already one buyin and half behind without playing a f.kin hand.
So I prefer changing tables to find a mixed pool of regs and fishes.At least regs respect your openings and fold often allowing you to isolate fish.
How do you adjust raise sizes in a $100 max $1/2 game? Raising 10x to isolate gives you almost no postflop playability.
I have a video coming out in a couple weeks that covers 50bb games. Stay tuned =)
Like the format - maybe "split" screen with your face and an example hand?
What software do you use???
this was edited with Premiere Pro
Are we ever going to get online poker in the states. It has been over 10 years since I was last able to make a deposit to pokerstars
I'm certainly looking forward to having online back in the US - for sure.
If you will raise every poreflop against limpers, you MAY BE will see them soon to stop limp. But you will observe it from outside of the table.
Because they will still call you and they will still be getting matches which make you out very quickly. If there's 6 limpers at the table, one or two will anyway get better or equal combinations than you. And you will lose pretty fast.
In fact, you should fold bad hands and only raise when you have good position AND good hand.
I play a local casino, and it's gotten to the point that even going all in at 100 BB gets 4-5 callers. It's insanity. It's become bingo, and I'm sick of it. Doesn't even feel like poker anymore, it's just luck. Wondering if it's a trend coming up in poker, or if it's just my dumb local casino.
Lmao, BINGO!!!
3-5 callers on a raise? wow, which site do you play on? Can i go there too?
This is totally standard for home games. Nobody folds, ever.
Common in micros
@@ruzreuben9755 Not whereever i played... But what do i know? I just played 1 000 000 hands or so for a few years.
I recently witnessed an individual that called a preflop raise, flop bet, turn Bet-Jam with Jack high….
Interesting. I'm assuming it caused a bit of controversy?
Important video criticism:
I like your face.
Thanks! I can't take much credit for it though, lol
Another thing I'll do is I'll donk bet if I smash the flop with a garbage hand but if I expect someone to bet I'll wait till they bet and I might even go all in instead.
Muito obrigado pelo conteúdo. Por gentileza poderia colocar a tradução em português.
I like to limp a little more but still folding all the garbage. Narrowing my opening range. Just seeing cheap flops with top 20-30% of hands. These people also love to call post flop so just value bet them to death.
You should do a poker vlog and analyze some hands you played at a live session! Similar to Andrew Neeme/Brad Owen etc.
I likely will =)
Thats the greatest thing ever! Any ETA on when they'll start popping up? Ive always wanted to see you in action.
Griff Joyce maybe over the summer while out in Vegas :)
Show that Beard Ma Boy!
A lil too close to the camera I think, slightly too low too. Otherwise great to see you on camera!
Thanks Kevin!
It's tough to raise 10BB when everybody is limping in every hand. If you do that the other players will leave and you won't have a game. The good news is you know you are playing against weaker players. They don't have any idea how you are playing. They don't know if you are folding a lot or playing every hand. Play stronger hands in postion more often. No need for a bluffing range (or trying to use ranges at all). Play like that is what is going on and you will win, you should be able to outplay them post-flop. Enjoy the game as it is, or move along to a better game.
The voice has a face! Next book: Unfolding After Effects
Love the format. Consider moving your camera a bit higher. Looking down a bit is a tad more flattering I'm general.
As a beginner this is very annoying. Especially if I see a bluff situation.
I often play 1-3 and in looser games you need to raise to $25 to $30 to isolate. One cardinal rule I've learned against fish is you can't buff them! 'Cause they don't know when to fold! If they have anything at all from longshot draw to bottom pair they will call.
It actually does my head in and I almost feel bad. The other day I had KK and on preflop I had 2K6.
On a 2/5 game I had preflop raised to $30. A strong message I am strong. On the turn a 7. I raise to $75 and get called. On the river, you wouldn’t believe it, K! I go all in for $350.
Villain calls and shows down with A2 off suit.
I actually feel bad playing against people that stupid.
@@CJ.1998X.Y.Z Love guys like that! It's what fuels the game for good plays!
@@ericaarseth7678 idk like I’m not mega wealthy or anything but I legitimately don’t need the money. I play poker to win because I like to know my game is good. I don’t like to win unfairly lol like idk I’d have felt much better if he had a good hand. I get what you mean, the idiots pump fresh cash into the poker economy but yeah I love to win competitively and feel the pressure not just crushing newbies haha
With fishies i play tight all in
What about people who say don't rasing more then 5x the bb puts to much pressure on your hand to win.
Which is more important, applying less pressure to myself or more pressure to them?
Very true! Read it in a pro poker book is all.
@@robertosoto8691 good job questioning it =)
If the whole table keeps limping I'll take a pair of 7's or better and go all in, the bigger my stack gets the tighter I'll play, I'll also become a maniac if I become a mega stack.
James Harden beard 👏
ohmfg I love your videos
You got such a great face for radio!
Ronald Grabs lmfao
Are you a Taleban gambler?
no sir
Just kidding, man. Btw, I loved your 1% video series. Are you gonna do the same for Application of NLHE by Janda and NLHE Theory and Practice by Sklansky-Miller?
@@Big-guy1981 Thank you! I don't have any plans to do another book>course at this time, but I am percolating on another course idea =)
As you wish. Personally I think poker books are an oudated concepts. Videos like Your 1% video are more in tune with modern poker. Cheers mate.
@@Big-guy1981 Cheers indeed.
gotta love how people think that playing like a fish is the best way to play against fish...play good poker, if people don't want to fold vs normal sizes that they should fold against, that's GOOD for you if you are playing a good strategy. If you are blaming people's bad play on you not being able to win, you are a fish yourself.
Does anyone else feel like we cheat listening to split, he strengthens our foundation to stop all leaks and strike hard. This is SPARTA! Good luck and happy grinding ha. Thanks split!
You're very welcome Falcon =)
Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp. Never limp.
Eric A *never open limp. Limping behind can be perfectly good.
Death to limpers.
Your head's upside down hair goes on top
Gravity got me early in life lol
That beard...
It's a work in progress =)
This is great advice for fake poker.
If you can't beat them,join them.
I disagree. I think opening using a min-raise is better since they'll often call down with any pair or draw and the rake in the micros is brutal. Of course if we are playing super tight than I get this.
All that does is bloat the pot while offering zero fold equity and it fails to create better postflop spots.
Why would you want fish to fold? Play a value heavy range. Poker isn’t rocket science. It’s some kinda science/art.
I think, in terms of video quality, you're doing ok, but your lighting, imo. is just too "flat". The contours of your face are getting lost and the image lacks "warmth", due to, I'm guessing, using a led ring light on your camera? -that's good for lighting stuff, but not people, imnsho.
But what do I know? -it's been the late 80's/early 90's since I did any podium stuff.
Selam Malejkum :P .Alah Ekbar.
great video but you might wanna do some grooming off the table
your voice...it just doesn't match your face at all. lu
You aren't the first to say that lol
You sound like a mature whiz kid and look like a viking.
Grigor Dimitrov I can only take that as a compliment :)
it is :D
Get braces. You are definitely good enough at poker you can afford the orthodontics. The beard is savage, though.
Ditch the beard and move to Russia, comrad.
I actually disagree with this. I play this kind of game all the time with a brutal rake and short stacks, and I smash it. And this is my advice. You want them in there with those dominated hands and junky draws and pair-plus draws. When you raise huge, you risk getting jammed on by someone who wakes up with AK QQ+, which is going to be about a fifth of the time. Of course, as your position improves, this risk decreases. But if you get frustrated and raise to $20 with KTs over 6 limpers, you can get jammed on, and you also open yourself up to the dreaded limp-reraise, which is either a small pair or the nuts. Since you won't see it more than twice per session, have fun guessing!
Anyway, don't fork your range. This is my main point: if nine people want to call 8 more dollars with their entire limping range, LET THEM. Play a huge, massively multiway pot with a gigantic range advantage. The multiway nature and tiny spr of these pots, and the predictable behavior of the donks (slowplaying monsters, jamming draws on the flop) makes them straightforward to play. You should raise all of your pairs, and all of your good suited broadway contaning an ace or king. Your UTG raising range, plus all of your small pairs. Because they won't 3-bet enough, punish them by set-mining. Sure it's high variance. But you'll win a $250 pot with a $30 stack. So.... be patient.