Is it right to equate the “Israeli democratic state” with Hamas? | LBC analysis
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2024
- Iain Dale speaks to Paul Garlick KC, a criminal barrister and judge, to discuss whether it's right for the ICC to put Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli official in the same bracket as Hamas.
The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) has called for arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas in Gaza, on charges of war crimes.
Karim Khan KC stated that there are reasonable grounds to believe both individuals are responsible for such offences and crimes against humanity following Hamas's attack on Israel on October 7th.
Arrest warrants have also been requested for Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, Hamas's political leader Ismail Haniyeh, and the group's military chief Mohammed Deif.
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#IainDale #Benjaminnetanyahu #LBC #Israel
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No need to equate them. Judge the Israeli govt by the actions of the Israeli govt.
That would destroy the Zionist narrative. They have to pretend that's what's being done in order to defend Israel's war crimes.
The comparison is irrelevant to the case.
Precisely
And the ICC is not holding the Israeli people responsible for this, they're holding 2 members of the government leadership responsible. That's it.
@@lisacook8235 No it's not. Israel is guilty of War crimes and crimes against humanity and as such Netanyahu as the leader of the government is guilty of the same crimes. Don't be so dense.
💯 this kind of distraction journalism is *typical* of the western media.
You can't compare the two, hamas hasn't occupied Israel for decades.
@@bluestar6879so Gaza has been a free state able to engage on economic activities without interference since 2005!?
The people of Gaza have been free to travel!?
Gaza has been a recognised part of an independent Palestine since 2005!?
@@bluestar6879 yeah and locked the gates to the open-air prison on the way out too didn't they
They're at BEST the same. I'd say they've proven themselves to be far more nefarious, all things considered. ('All things' meaning over decades vs pretending 10/7 was the inception of the entire universe.)
@@chrisspencer6502
Yes - they were free since 2005.
NO Israelis were in their territory since that time.
Next question ?
@@bluestar6879the world can explain to you they didn't leave gaza millions of times you would still pretend not to hear it.
There is nothing you can say of Hamas that does not hold true for Israel on a much greater scale.
Oh shut up
Your absolutely correct, and I simply can’t understand how there is any support for Israel whatsoever. The one thing israel, the US and the UK, should do is apologise for decades of injustice and terrible atrocities meted out to the Palestinians.
You're right sam
There is no moral equivalent netanyahu is the worst creature
There is no equivalent says Biden. True, 1 lot killed 1k and the other lot killed 40k. Its hard to.disagree with the old man on this point.
Ian dale has been on the wrong side forever, cant be changing sides now
Never because in the evening he will be in Isreal for dinner with the criminal leaders of Isreal
Yes he's always been on the wrong side of history.
Exactly
He is so obviously ignorant of the facts and history. Been listening to msm and Israeli propaganda without critical thought.
His comments make me feel physically sick. We won’t forget how he positioned himself 🥴
What an outrageous proposition!?
The United Kingdom America and France were incapable of carrying out war crimes because they are domestic states!?
The people of Vietnam would disagree the people of Algeria would disagree and the people of Afganistán would disagree
Congo, chile, Honduras, etc the list is so long.
Could you explain what a domestic state is?
@@jakel8627 He means democratic
I think you mean democratic, not domestic.
You just made Israel's case for Israel, bud.
Cheers.
Please, please, please
can we stop saying Israel is a democratic state?
I agree
@bashm5767
When has anything claiming itself to be "democratic" ever been averse to; COLONIALISM, SLAVERY, SEGREGATION (JCrows/Nuremberg laws), Holocausts, Genocides, wars of aggression all that happened and continue to happen in countries that call themselves democracies---why does the west (majority white) believe that by calling yourself or your friends a "democracy", then those countries are incapable of being wrong or insulated by a democratic holy spirit from doing evil.....!!?
Agree
It’s democracy for the people allowed to vote. Surely that’s democracy :s
@@siavashmashoofEveryone in Iran is allowed to vote too.
Why do they keep saying Israel is a democracy...and in the next breath calling it a Jewish state...cant have it both ways
Simple and direct - thank you. B'Tselem, Human rights watch and notably Amnesty International agree with you.
Yeah a what democracy passes out weapon to only one demographic of people...I believe thats what Jim crow did in the south
As if only hebrews live there
@@talksmoke1190 they want and are trying to get it that way...
@@user-oy3em1nd1l wrong
They are worse than hamas, thats a fact.
It’s called Israel
After watching the documentary oct 7th its just hard to believe that the israeli military didnt know there was an attack imminent.there was alot of movement on the border leading up to it.even the footage from the cameras on the hamas fighters showed they couldnt believe they broke through into israel they were even arguing amongst themselves what to do next
Go and live there. You will soon change your mind. Make sure you have a return ticket.
no they're not
Ian Dale!!! I'm embarrassed on your behalf.
Embarrassed? - he should be ashamed but like so many zee on ists he doesn't know how to be.
Fool
The Israeli flag that he put next to name on his Twitter profile is a bit of a giveaway
Are we in britain living or soon to be under an apartheid government rule straight out of tel Aviv?
it's one thing to support a so called ally , bowing down & breaking laws, supporting apartheid , trying to legislate
to curb the British population s rights , strange or Orwellian .
Still in denial.who occupies who?
Can't rewrite history
War crimes are war crimes no matter who or what you are
Wrong one is terrorist the other is democratic state trying to survive a life surrounded by Arab attack possibilities.russia objects to enemy at the gates why shouldn't israel.
You think just going to war is a crime. Sorry but that’s not how it works. If Hamas had not committed an atrocity on 7/10 there would be no war in Gaza and that’s the truth.
Yeah no one is above the law
The ICC isn’t equating Israel with Hamas, they are equating Netanyahu and Hamas leaders
If Israel had "ever" acted properly and justly toward the Palestinian population, then Hamas would/could not exist !
and partly supported by Netanyahu in order to stave off a 2 state solution/ divide and rule etc
Dales boyfriend Bibi the Butcher is about to be indicted for war crimes, that's why he looks do sad.
😂
😂😂 dales boyfriend 🤣🤣. You win 🥇
Justice for Hind.
🙏
I am considering getting her name tattooed on me in Arabic as a reminder.
Ian looks upset 😅
Yes you'd think that he would be used to being wrong 😊
Because of people like Ian dale I no longer tune into LBC. Never known such apologists for the criminal behaviours of a state
I couldn’t believe what I was hearing! “I wouldn’t go that far” when referring to the arrest warrant for Netanyahu. Ridiculous 😮
It's honestly gotten so much worse over the past few months. Much less coverage and much more biased. They must have been spanked. Wimps.
It's the ministry of truth
How many kids need to die in order for one to be held to account?
A lot of German children died in WW2.
@@Light-lp8rnoh wow so it's a competition?
@@jake751 *No. When the Germans started bombing civilian areas, Britain had to respond the same, in order to win the war, you're welcome* And when you decide to build your military bases in civilian areas, and then invade a country and declare to keep doing it over and over again, that country has every right to take out your military, whether you oddly chose to build said bases in civilian areas or not.
*I think there is an alternative, but people will not offer that alternative to Israel* If, Israel did stop the bombing, lifted all restrictions on Gaza and the West Bank, withdraw all troops, gave each a billion a year in aid, recognized them as an independent state, and not one Israeli set foot in either, but then they attacked Israel, what would you then want Israel to do ? If you can't offer a reasonable solution to this, you are leaving Israel no current alternative.
@@Light-lp8rnyeah the alternative is the one state solution (that one state being Palestine)
@@Nick-zp8wk Well everything will stay the same, as Palestine would not accept a one state solution with the state being Israel and neither will Israel vice versa. It seems like you want things to carry on the same.
Nobody is equating the Israeli state with a terrorist organisation. Netanyahu's crimes and Hamas's stand by themselves and should be judged by themselves.
I would also say that Isreal is a lot worse than Hamas and is in my mind and many others a terrorist organisation.
How do you define a terrorist organisation.?Apply the same definition to Israel and see if it fits
@@alibulle6251 That's a non sequitur
you do not have to be confused here : Israel is a reknown Apartheid State (recognized by UN) not a democratic state !
And recognised as such by B'Tselem, Human rights watch and notably Amnesty international.
And very right wing too.
It doesn't matter whether you think if Natanyahu is a war criminal or not. The law and court procedures are the ones to decide.
If anything Israel should be held to higher standards
Not only that, if Israel's claim to be democratic holds true, it makes Israelis more culpable for the actions of the IDF and the state of Israel than Gazans are responsible for the actions of Hamas.
Why?
@@zebedee6296Despicable comment.
@@mogznwaz True though.
@@mogznwaz Israel claims to be a democratic state. Rule of law etc... Their leaders elected by the people. Hamas is considered a terrorist group. Seeing the difference shouldn't be hard.
Ian, educate yourself on international criminal law and perhaps you’d reach a different conclusion on whether Netanyahu should be indicted. Don’t just say “I don’t think I would (indict) Netanyahu.” Enlighten yourself man and you’ll reach the right conclusion.
Money talks with these people
@@bluecheesey701 They sell their mum if they could
I found it interesting that he concentrated on the judicial process (at least in this clip) and not on the grounds of the indictment and arrest warrant. Perhaps he knows that his view might be compromised.
He's less interested in receiving an honest education than spreading bogus propaganda.
Ian would join the resistance if he was treated the way Palestinians have been treated for decades.
Nope, he would kollaborate.
He was cautioned for assault, so he’d be a neat fit for the IDF
@@juniper150Yeah, but that was on an OAP. And someone had to pull him off.
Apt to have have someone from the Yugoslav trials. Netanyahu is a modern day Milosevic
how do you not see that netanyahu is a war criminal. theres tens of thousands of dead kids, a siege of all things necessary for life, you are starving kids, collective punishment is a war crime shame on you iain dale.
He is paid to be blind
I won’t be watching this show again .
Me neither
2:32 you're not sure if u would go that far coz u see Israel as innocent regardless of covering this for over 7 months.
Either you're in denial or biased 🤷🏿♂️
Let's get some perspective here - one side lost around 1,200 people either through death or kidnap, the other side has lost over 35,000 people, including over 14,000 children. Israel will never get rid of Hamas by force, in fact what they have done so far will result in the greatest recruiting exercise for Hamas in generations, as the next few generations at least will want revenge over what Israel has done so far.
Since when do you judge right and wrong by the numbers of casualties? Besides if you mention numbers at least check yourself the UN has reduced the by half of children and women don’t give false information…you embarrass yourself
@@gabrielamargolin5875 Numbers, of course, play a role, and the way ISR is fighting this war is excessively brutal and unjustified. The UN did not reduce the figure to nearly 35,000, but confirmed it. And the actual number of deaths will be significantly higher because many people are still missing and trapped beneath the damaged building. Even if the number of children killed is reduced by half, the death toll remains high. Furthermore, the deaths of men are no less tragic. Furthermore, ISR's attacks on aid workers, aid trucks, and foreign food relief, including baby food, are beyond evil. You're embarrassing yourself because ISR supporters keep bringing up the made up stories about the 40 babies and ovens and whatnot. Besides, of the 1200 people who lost their lives, 400 were military personnel, and many deaths were not caused by HMS.
@@carlomariaromano4320 you are not giving facts you answer shows hate and ignorance of the truth.
Ian has been supporting Israel and its actions in Gaza from day one.
Israel democracy🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I agree with you but I associate the "crying with laughter" emojis with zee on ists justifying their more than plausible gen o cide.
Yes for the examples in Gaza yes. You don't purposely starve people. And purposely target citizens.
What does "democratic" have to do with any of this?. Just because a country is a democracy it doesn't mean they can do what they're doing and not be held to the same account as undemocratic countries
Is it any wonder why a lot of countries think of double standards when it comes to things like International law?
I'm baffled by this too. War crimes are war crimes, no matter who commits them. There should be no confusion, but our media seems intent to try to confuse people
Exactly what I was thinking. I am tired of the way they are throwing the term Isreal is a democracy, which for some pathetic reason seems to give Isreal impunity over any crimes!
So the questions , to the west, what does natanyahu hv to do to commit war crime? Use nuke??? Cuz he has done everything else.
The only think they did was respond to a threat to their national security when a neighbor territory sent 4000 troops inside their border and murdered 20 civilian communities and attacked a music festival. In War civilians casualties must be avoided and only military assets should be targeted, but if military targets are inbedded in civilian areas it is not the responsibility of Israel to protect those civilians they are Hamas responsibility which initiated the war aggression with the attack and kidnapping of Israel population, Israel already does enough to protect Gaza civilians and by law they do not have to provide any aid to that population they are the enemy civilians, you should read the law first.
"by law they do not have to provide any aid to that population they are the enemy civilians, you should read the law first."
I believe you are incorrect about that. Even with soldiers, if you take them as prisoners there are standards of care that are required. If you occupy a population, you do have to provide sustenance to them. Or are you arguing that it's perfectly legal to occupy and area and starve the population to death IF a group from that population committed a heinous act?
That doesn't make any sense. Both the IDF AND Hamas can be doing illegal/unethical things.
@@dreamcoyote Those are different things, prisoners of war and obviously when they occupy some territory they have to provide the necessities and care for that population if they are in need so far they have not occupied territory with any population because most of the conflict they evacuate the population to controlled Hamas areas, while they flush Hamas troops from the North to the south, Israel beyond what many countries have done in any war until now have allowed foreign aid and they themselves have provided aid, not their fault Hamas steals some of it and sell it for profit, there are videos of rotten food on the floor because Hamas prefers to let it waste than give it to the population. Not excusing possible errors by IDF in any situation because stuff happens in War, at the end of this conflict we will learn what happened in full detail.
@@spardax1068 Please try to stop using run-on sentences. I can't even get through half of what you write.
You are still essentially arguing that they have no responsibility if they cut off all food/medical support/etc from a populace and they certainly are doing that.
The IDF controls how much food goes in. It is still illegal to starve out civilian populations. It is clear that the IDF is using food and aid as a weapon in this conflict. You don't "accidentally" shoot a white full size 18 wheeler going along a previously arranged safe route along the shoreline with a gun from a ship stationed close offshore. Might happen once, but not that many errors.
"Stuff happens in war" including war crimes.
@@spardax1068This is such a derivative view. That is not all that they did. It is well documented that Israel has been committing war crimes for decades before this attack. Israel is condemned hundreds of times every year by the UN for crimes
What does it matter whether Israel is a democracy or not, that's completely irrelevant. It's of not consequence whether we see them as being in a our (white) club with the democratic west. This is about conduct.
If your doing a direct comparison Israel is by all metrics worse
Why wrong religion? 😂
No, because of the over casualty count. Both pre Oct 7th and post Oct 7th
Imagine the israeli government sharing a prison cell with hamas 😂😂😂😂
At that point bibi would actually use diplomacy.
Finally, he would be forced to humble himself once he loses all weapons.
Netanyahu will be so old in that cell.
He is as old as the apartheid regime.
It is absolutely not right to equate Hamas with Israel. Hamas is a result of Israel's human rights violations of the Palestinian people. Yes, Hamas has been responsible for some horrific crimes, but however you measure it what Israel has done is worse.
Yes because both have comitted acts of terrorism.
Yes both, and somehow, I have more empathy for the people who are been occupied for decades.
@@uzialadogan5240 Same.
The only occupation here is the religion of peace progaganda inside your brain.
@uzialadogan5240 I don't, if they're cheering for hamas after they come back from killing innocent people and with hostages then I don't have sympathy for them and they need to be taught a lesson
@Centaur987 Does the same go for Israeli's who set up deck chairs to watch Gaza get bombed or when they torch aid trucks heading to Gaza?
How hilarious/devastating that the guest's answer to Dale's silly question is basically, "Read the actual text".
The answer to your questions is thus, is-real is far far worse then hammas. And the bigotry and bias towards zionism on your show is so apparent to everyone else.
What has democracy to do when it comes to war crimes , is this like the last excuse for this extremist state ? A criminal is a criminal regardless how u describe him politically
His boss is from the tribe you cannot criticise. What did you expect from LBC
Dale is a Zio himself.
Is it right to equate Hamas with the apartheid state of Israel
No but the ICC is dealing with individuals rather than the groups as a whole. The latter part is determined by ICJ….which will be a much slower process and one that I imagine IsNotReal will do its best to drag on and delay as long as it can to postpone the conclusion and the huge damage it will do to its PR (even more damage)
Dale wont have Garlick on again. He looked disgusted when the judge gave his view
I wonder how Ian would feel if somebody broke into house and caused serious harm to him and his family. What would he do if the Mainstream media then tried to defend that person's actions by saying that Ian was a terrorist who should not have been living in that area?
In your scenario had Ian attacked that person first though? You seem happy to leave that part out
@Centaur987 Yes, he did. The moment the intruder violently broke into his house!
@@Tigga490 well then you're describing something that is different to the current situation which isn't helpful. Israel was attacked immediately upon its creation by the UN. It would be if Ians neighbour attack him but because as soon as the neighbour moved in Ian had been attacking him
@@Centaur987it's creation was a attack
@Centaur987 the Palestinians were attacked when Israel was created!!! The creation of Israel was literally an attack on Palestine.
Now we will see what certain countries actually think of international law. When it suits they enforce it...
"Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas," Netanyahu told his Likud party's Knesset members in March 2019.
"This is part of our strategy"
Haaretz, October 2023...
I hate this guy so much. Who tf is shouting pro Hamas things at the marches? Such a disgusting lie.
You hate which person and which disgusting lie?
@@ryand141 Ian saying people are shouting pro Hamas things when clearly they are not.
Correct me if I’m wrong 😑 did Isreal support ham-s at first so they could get rid of plo and they thought they would have more control
@@briansutton2566 Yes, they did.
@russelljames5631 only there are people shouting pro hamas things. I used to be friends with some of them.
You haven't been to every march, or know every protestor, so the fact that you would categorically state it doesn't happen at all is moronic on the face of it. You literally couldn't know that, but that won't stop you from slinging more mud eh?
The question is not equating Hamas with Israel PM.
It is quite simply a fact of has Israel committed war crimes. If so then that fact that it was done whilst engaging in a war with Hamas is irrelevant. A war crime is a war crime irrespective of the reason or the states/parties involved
Ian dale’s face says it all 😂
Just the framing gives a hint, where its going, a war crime is a war crime, who did it is irrelevant, no one gets a pass.
Hi is a criminal
I cringe every time I hear Israel being called a democracy. The Israeli track record tells a different story!
Wrong
Can you imagine Putin and Netanyahu sharing a cell together
Sitting on the cold stone floor, telling stories of each other's crimes.
If Hamas is a terrorist organisation because of its callous disregard for the lives of innocent Israelis, is not Israel a terrorist state because of its callous disregard for the lives of innocent Palestinians?
And if you compare the scale of the crimes? and the context?
Why can Israel have an army but Palestine can not?
@@RevolutionaryVision-pc3gwBecause the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel. It is an Islamofacist terror organisation who stated aim is to create a Caliphate. When it starts a war this is what happens.
Can anyone reading this imagine they children being illegally detained, indefinitely, mistreated, terrorized, humiliated, then TIMES that by 75+ years.
What absolute cowards!
The question is, are they guilty of what they are being accused of?
Ian, for some reason looks sad!
"i'm not sure i'd go that far" hunnybun luckily courts don't work on our feelings.
Play it to his advantage, what being indicted as a war criminal. You need to retire Dale.
Nobody is equating/comparing Israel with Hamas! Khan isn't. He has a separate set of allegations.
It's not equating, Israel is far worse than Hamas!
You condemn Israel: hey! But what about Hamas?
You condemn both: hey! Are you equating Israel to Hamas?
For these people it’s unacceptable to even criticize Israel
I don't get why this is such an issue.
In order to request a warent there must have been evidence...
Are we saying because your state is a "democracy " evidence of war crimes do not apply?
Yeah they arent equal. Israel has done significantly worse crimes than hamas has ever done
Oh really? I don’t think so.
I agree Israeli is far worst than Hamas
equating white and brown is outrageous.
Both sides have people with all the skin tones possible, from blond, blue-eyed scandinavian-looking types to African-appearing people.
Perhaps -this is the only thing that both sides would agree on.
Whoops !
Yup!!
Whatever show one black high ranking official in Israel a country of 7 million and I'm not talking about brown arabs@@bluestar6879
@@bluestar6879 But this is not how people in Europe and America view them, which is all that matters when we're talking about how racism determines our different responses to the two sides.
For example, when I suffered Islamophobic racism in France, the fact that I am not Muslim was not relevant.
@@bluestar6879 they eastern European dna proved it they banned dna test right after...they need to give back the land and return to their place of origin
ERM what did the Americans do to the Japanese civilians???????????
Also a war crime
He's not the lead judge. he is the ICC prosecutor.
Is it right to equate the resistance with the vicious genocidal state?
Democracy is just another name for "he's on our side".
"Isreal democratic state"???? Apartheid state more like!
I think the lawyer would know this very well that just because someone hasnt been convicted of war crimes it doesnt mean they havent committed them.
35000 + people have died and Ian is still not sure if he'd "go that far to indict him" - Come on Ian, when will it be the rignt time then? 👀
Simple: Oppressor Vs oppressed
No self inflicted cry baby for 75 years
What democratic state?
Equal before the law is not the same as equal in criminal extent. However, it seems that Israel has killed way more innocents than Hamas. To that extent at least, you cannot equate their culpability.
We talk a lot about an international rule based system. Those rules must be applied evenly or it means nothing. Both Hamas and the Israeli government must be held to the same standard.
Was to free the hostage the main task of the idf ?
That moment you realise your on the side of the bad guys 💀🇮🇱💀🇺🇸💀🇬🇧
They knew, now they realise they've been found out.
Typical of you that you have to compare everything back to hamas rather than what Israel is doing. Both should be assessed separately and on it own merits of the actions taken by both parties- wake up and do your job
What about Sunak and Starma? Those scoundrels must NOT be let off the hook either. They have deeply offended against the people of the UK and we don't forget the dishonour they have spewed on us all.
Starmer: "I am a zee onist without qualification" - even at the expense of British parliamentary democracy.
Well he doesnt want to b sacked like sangeeta myska bring myska back
Democratic 😂😂
This quote can help explain what’s happening to the Palestinians. “There is a need now for strong and brutal reaction. We need to be accurate about timing, place and those we hit. If we accuse a family-we need to harm them without mercy, women and children included. Otherwise, this is not an effective reaction… There is no need to distinguish between guilty and not guilty.” - Ben Gurion, first prime minister of Israel
Why can’t these so called journalists not accept what happened to Palestinians before October 7th and they’re supposed to be educated people or are they being told what to report
At least France has stepped up. Vive la France.
Since Sangeeta was fired this radio station is a joke
Democratic? yeah ok! even if it actually was a democracy, what on earth difference would that make? can a democracy not commit crimes? what a ludicrous headline!
The car hit a tree and flipped over 5 times, it's plausible that he had an accident. It could be nothing though !
Ian looks stressed af 🫠
1,200 can never be equal to 35,000 deaths ,ICC ,ICJ know mathematical process
You can't second guess Israel's response and tailor the law to their political reaction. Has Israel committed war crimes? If there is a case to answer then the warrant should be issued. The ICC will present their case to the 3 judges and they will decide on it. The argument here that they shouldn't issue a warrant because it has political consequences is effectively saying some bad actors are above the law. No such argument is made against Hamas why would it be they are terrorists. This is a jolt to Israel's supporters who are in denial of Israel's actions, have argued that Israel has not simply the right to defend itself but will defend its war crimes using self-defence as a cover.
So there you have it these war criminals agree on something.
Israel has elements of democracy, but I feel has lost their way in response to October 7. No one should be above the law.
which corner of israel is democratic?
We never had social media during the Iraq war.... today war is live on all social media networks
Please Mr Dale, listen to the CNN interview by Christiane Amanpour with Karim Khan. He summarizes the evidence against Netanyahu and Galant. It is overwhelming, simple as that.
Ian seems to be okay with children starving to death.
Dear Ian, your question of should we equate the two is completely absurd! Both sides should be judged by their own respective actions, furthermore Kareem Khan KC and his office have analysed the facts/evidence of numerous sources thus deeming it so that the required threshold to indeed initiate indictments and arrest warrants has surpassed. For you to come on air and state you do not think that indictments should be made against Israel clearly demonstrates that you indeed have behaved in such a way that does amount to the destruction of your journalistic impartiality and credibility.
Netanyahu mustn’t go unpunished for doing evil crimes against humanity
He calls them "gentlemen"!!!!!!
The right question is : IS IT RIGHT TO EQUATE THE COLONIZER , CRIMINAL AND GENOCIDAL AGGRESSOR, WITH ITS VICTIM ?