This makes so much sense. I spent four years in seminary and the struggle to figure these issues out comes down to one thing. The East battled in Christology. The West battled on anthropology. Thanks for sharing these videos!
Mr. D'Ambrosio, This is staggeringly good. Explained with such clarity that even a simple brain as mine is able to readily grasp what you are telling us. And what must be the hallmark of a good tutor, leaving this student, dreading the end of the Lecture. Hoping you or good Peter Brown (presumably not THE Peter Brown) will be uploading more??
I grew up Russian Orthodox and attended Catholic elementary school a couple years. I never heard the doctrine of By grace are you saved through faith and not of your selves, it ( salvation ) is the Gift of God, not of works...Eph.2:8,9. It wasn't till I was 20 years old well steeped in sin that a stranger witnessed the clear gospel of salvation to me. He then opened the Bible to the above verses and asked me to read them. I read them, meditated on the scripture. Suddenly for the first time in my life I understood that the Lord wants to save me not on the basis of how good I was or how bad I was. The offer of salvation is a free gift to be received simply by believing the gospel that The Lord Jesus Christ died for my sins according to the scripture, was buried, and rose the 3rd day from the dead. 1Cor.15:1-4. I realized that the Lord did this personally for me. I was born again by the Holy Spirit. It has been 47 years I am saved. Life has its ups and downs, but I never regretted that the Lord saved me. After my believing the gospel I attended a church that actually teaches the scripture by opening the Bible. It makes a world of difference not just to believe traditions, your priest, your pastor or even the Pope or Metropolitan ( eastern orthodox ). Faith comes by hearing, and by hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17 On judgment day The Lord will not ask you what church you attended, or if you grew up in a Christian home. You will not be able to blame your parents, your pastors, or popes if they got it wrong and you did not open the Bible to look for yourself. You are responsible for your own salvation. That's why the Lord has the Bible translated into different languages for all to read. If you have Bibles sitting in your house and you never open it, you are missing out on the Greatest Gift of all: To personally know the LORD GOD creator of heaven and earth, and to enjoy Him now and for all eternity. I recommend to start by reading the gospel of John. I enjoyed the teaching and have learned from it. Thank you and the Lord bless you all.
Thank you very much what you have said and discussed. I have just realised how much of western society is based on the descions theologians made in the 5th Century. If the ideas of free will and no original sin had been accepted. Schools and education would see, teach, realise and encourage the potential in people!
One could say Augustine espoused Arminian theology in his earlier life as demonstrated in this video. But after his sharp disagreements with Pelagius, he took certain aspects of grace a step further. He was the first one in Christianity that espoused what is known today as Calvinism.
In fact, he backtracked into the determinism of his former Manachaism. Determinism had been universally rejected and never taught in the church until Augustine taught this heresy.
Grace comes through faith, which faith a measure has been given to every man that comes into the World. If we all have unexercised faith at birth, in a way we do simply need to "buck up" and believe God. When we do, grace (the power of God from the indwelling Holy Spirit) gives us power to do what faith stepped out to obtain. Communion with God. We are free and empowered to walk in light, holiness, and godliness, without which no man shall see or commune with God. Believing includes that He loved us so much that He gave His son to atone for sin, that we are forgiven for past sins and become Saints when the Holy Spirit takes up residence because of our exercised faith. Only love can place a stronger demand on us than the temptation of sin. It is the new commandment for a reason. Think of marital fidelity. You may be tempted to betray your marriage, the most important thing in your life by an affair, but your love for your spouse constrains you. Understanding how much our relationship meant to God also constrains us from playing the harlot against the love of God as displayed by the cross. Faith works by love. We are in the Father and the Son as Jesus was in the Father on Earth.
The reason why the Eastern Church never saw the big issue is because the Orthodox have a totally different interpretation of Original Sin. The West altered this perception with focusing solely on St. Augustine's exigesis of Romans 5. He admits that his Greek was limited and had very little contact with the original Greek patristic tradition. As a scholar you could explore this distinction.
Augustin accused Pelagius of 14 points of heresy that Pelagius didnt even espouse. Pelagius was not a heretic, Augustine was just jealous and angry with Pelagius. This video is reinforcing error in fact
We don't know much of what the historic Pelagius said directly and some of what was imputed to him was derived from what his disciples were saying. So not disagreeing with your basic point here.
I think it’s ironic that Pelagius is considered a false teacher when it was Roman Catholic heretics who surrendered to gnostic doctrines that condemned him. Pelagius was by far closer to biblical truth then the popes and bishops who condemned him for heresy.
Doesn't the teaching of original sin inevitably lead to the teaching of predestination? Does the eastern orthodox church adhere to Augustinian Theology?
Well the doctrine of predestination is clearly taught in scripture, so there is a Catholic version of it which is different than the more familiar Calvinist version. I don't want to speak for the Eastern Orthodox but I suspect they are less enamored of Augustine than we are in the West.
@@peterbrown6612 in the bible? Wow just NO!!! And no the Eastern church has very different teaching on salvation,free will and grace so clearly Augustines teachings are an interpretation of scripture ..
It is hard not to notice that power and its distribution are in the background of this whole lecture. Power of the Pope, power of councils, power of the theologians whose doctrine is accepted. If you want power over your followers, telling them that they are inherently sinful, even if they haven't done anything bad, is a good move. Their judgement, after all, is by definition faulty or "fallen", so how could they know anything? It is interesting that Paul's musing about his behavior in one sentence of a lengthy set of writings was transformed into a doctrine that has caused so many people to think badly of themselves for centuries was promulgated at almost the exact moment that the Church made its bargain with Constantine and thus became part of the Roman empire's Establishment, with all the wealth and trappings associated. Augustine certainly made Pelagius pay for his differing opinion. He ruined him. I had thought that Jesus mentioned something about loving thy neighbor and doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. But perhaps, because his theological insight was so powerful (and useful!), Saint Augustine was exempt from these petty considerations.
The Roman "EmPire" couldn't get the Church to compromise with 3 centuries of persecutions. The Church never bargained with ConStantinus. Pelagius and Augustinus were both heretics. Pelagius preached a works "gospel" in which he denied the indispensability of Baptism for Salvation. Augustinus doubletalked about freewill and even "allowed" "nfp" and "divorce".
@@jaygee470 heretic you do realize Saint Dismas died under the Old TestaMent, the Limbo of the Fathers was called "ParaDise" 'cause Jesus Was there, all the Old TestaMents Saints were ReSurrected under the New TestaMent thus also had to be Baptized, you're unqualified to speak before you honestly read The Shepherd of Hermas, and the "kjv" is a Masonic vernacularization of a Grecization of a Latinization of the apostate corrupt invalid post-Apostolic-era "Masoretic" texts right?
@@miguelpasamano4995 I realize you call filthy vile demonic men saints 😤 that don't nor did have the Holy Spirit and are burning in hell I realize this may be your first and last time to accept the truth and leave the harlot in Scarlett But will you
THE REASON FOR HIS RESURRECTION isaiah : WITH his stripes we are healed", The stripes that man gave him out of sin become his own BURDEN, he who had no sin became sin for us, BY which he REDEEMS unto the Biblical words "I Hurt & I Heal" (Job) ," My Burden is light & My Yoke easy" the words that underscore the Communion (Know why Satanists hate/Desecrate the Eucharist, cause Sin cannot withstand pain, other than to give) The Body & Blood of the STRIPED Christ received through FAITH, The GRACE, FAITH, has its works within, comes through following the TWO COMMANDMENTS of Love (denoted by the Bronze image of St Peter in Peters Basilica, The two Commandments that hang in the two keys of heaven, -- The universal Doctrine of the Church) amounting to picking up ones own cross daily to following him as commanded, thus Equating WITH his sacrifice on the Cross So, the stripes that man gave him he uses to REDEEM, is the reason why "It pleased God to Bruise him " Not for the bruises itself but for its Fruit, FOR WHICH HE HAD TO RESURRECT that he did, cause the BURDENS of our sins could not hold him down in hell (where Sin & death rules) as he was found stronger than Sin itself, unto his words (I have overcome the world" (its sins) to say there is no sin that he cannot remove This is basically a Conversion act instead of a Substitution (magical) act as generally believed by Protestants, The Error has its origins through Protestantism's theologically leavening the Faith by Faith Only, that James specifically says is not, unto mis interpretation Paul (the reason why Martin Luther rejected James cause it was a hinderance to his erranous view of redemption) and the philosophies that arise out of the leavens becomes to another Christ another Gospel Incidentally the source of the prophesied Apostasy theologically in the leavens of the Faith, through Protestantization,
Augustine may have been wrong on most of the big issues, but he certainly was influential. Calvinists have incorporated many of his basic misunderstandings.
I disagree with him on some things and Calvin followed him and pushed his problematic positions to an even greater extreme. But it seems to me on the truly big issues he was right on! Sacraments, the Donatists and Pelagians being wrong, there being an original sin and the rejection of Manicheanism.
@@peterbrown6612 Original sin meaning we all have a sin nature? or Original sin as in we are all guilty of a crime we did not commit? Both are absolutely absurd ideas unsupported by scripture. Augustine and Calvin taught the world that God is an unforgiving monster that punishes people for crimes they did not commit and also poured out his wrath on a completely innocent person. I think they were wrong about nearly everything that matters.
@@investfluent4143 i think you misunderstand the doctrine of original sin. But in any case it's rooted in humanity being subjugated by sin see Romans 3:9, 5:12-14 and Hebrews 2:12-14.
@@peterbrown6612 It may be that I misunderstand the doctrine of Original Sin. There are several such doctrines so it is hard to know which one you or I are referring to. There is the version where all people are born a sinners and we therefore need to baptize our children. I think that is Reformed and Catholic perhaps. There is the version where you are born with a sin nature. That seems to be the common view among protestants. And there is a version where Adam and Eve were the first to sin. That seems to be the one found in the Bible. I hold to the last view. The first two views are absurd and unbiblical. I have read all of those verses you put forward. It is not as though I am unaware of them. Certainly, everyone asides from Christ is guilty of their own sin. That is not an original sin doctrine. Please elaborate.
@@investfluent4143 Right...the idea of Paul and others is more nuanced...basically that there is a kind of dominion of sin and death that all are born into. It isnt that everyone is literally guilty for what Adam did. Paul doesn't really explain how the dominion extends to everyone or what it means at the anthropological level...but that human beings cannot rescue themselves because of the way human nature is or because of the way the world is is clearly in Romans and Hebrews...indeed it's found also in the Gospel of John 2:23-25...right before Jesus talks about being "born from above." Original sin is sin by condition nor by commission.
Augustine was wrong. Augustine said that humanity was fallen from grace and retained a permanent stain from Adam's original sin. However, God said in Genesis that we were made in the image and likeness of God; Jesus said we are the light of the world. Augustine says I'm evil and fallen; God says I'm made in His image and likeness; and Jesus says I'm the light of the world. God and Jesus must be correct, which means Augustine is wrong. As for the Pelagian heresy - Pelagius' beliefs are more in line with Jewish theology. And that's where the Church (Eastern and Western) gets it wrong. If Jesus was Jewish and the first part of the Christian Bible is the Jewish scriptures, then the foundation of Christian theology must be Jewish theology. Christian theology must be Jewish theology with Jesus added to it. If the Church's theology differs from Jewish theology, then the Church is wrong. If the Church differs from Jewish theology, then the Church is in heresy not Pelagius.
Josh, I agree. Most Christians have not studied Augustine's writing in chronological order. He wrote in alignment with 50 early Christian writers, then changed in response to Palagius. His response was so impulsive, that he made mistakes.
@@janezietlow2851 No. I'm an ante-Nicene Catholic. I believe in the Christian faith the way it was before Constantine and the Councils of Nicaea. I reject all church creeds and decrees and the like made after Constantine's supposed "conversion."
Peter brown. Your not substantive. Grace is all around you. Only if you have the eyes too see or ears to hear will you understand grace and what jesus called the kingdom of heaven which is all around you. Kingdom of heaven and grace are the same. Its takes a shift in consciousness too experience this state of being. Our current state of being is a separation from the gods that we are and therefor are not able to experience grace because we are separated from it. It's always there if we can see or experience it.
Perhaps God does not punish sinners. Perhaps, we all are faced with hardship. If we help one another through that, we will inevitably be changed and will not die. "Whatever doesn't kill me, makes me stronger," said nietzsche. St. Paul said experience builds character and that produces hope. The Gospel of James said that perseverance is rewarded with a trasformation that offers faith, hope and charity.
Our free will is compromised by our fallen condition, not nullified. Grace builds on our nature, it doesn't alter or contradict it. It builds on, heals, strengthens & transforms our nature; transforms in the sense of elevates it.
I find that I lean toward certain Pelagian beliefs....the idea of transmitted or inherited sin is silly in my estimation. An infant still possesses the glow of Heaven in his eyes....I became aware of this fact at a baptism of all places....baptism marks a child as Christ's own, so it is a protection rather than a preventative. I can imagine, as Pelagius did, that under certain circumstances, a human may be raised and live entirely without sin or nearly so....we have in our Western tradition examples of this (albeit literary)....Galahad (raised by nuns in a secluded convent), Percival (also raised in a convent I believe_)....and we deem the Blessed Virgin to have been without sin. I can imagine a young novice nun, cloistered from an early age, living a blameless life. We still need Christ's salvation and grace, because the world gets to us all, and sinning is the result....we arent inherently sinful at first, but we are certainly capable of sinning quite of our own free will.....
Ok but the more refined presentation of the idea is original sin as something lacking: the indwelling life of God that makes resurrection life possible. This lacuna is what baptism fills. An unbaptized infant is not evil though but good and can grow to do good things. But he's not good enough....he has natural life and goodness but needs the supernatural life and goodness that comes not naturally but only as a gift from God. I hope that helps.
I was brought up thinking I didn't need God to be good (Pelagianism); then I realized I needed Him but still believed God helps those who help themselves (Semi-Pelagianism); now, as a middle-aged man, I know I can't help myself and my sanctification is ENTIRELY the work of the Holy Spirit. No one will ever convince me that heresies are mere intellectual controversies of no practical importance: our salvation depends on getting it right... Didn't Saint Augustin write something to the effect that 'Do what you can and ask the grace to do what you cannot do'? Isn't that semi-pelagianism? Perhaps that was the young, heretical Saint Augustine?
To think that God would hold the sin's of two people over our heads for all of eternity goes against the very teachings of Christ. Something called forgiveness. Augustine was a week man like the rest of us. He in my opinion, did not like hearing the truth. Pelaian's teaching are closer to the Apostolic father's than Augustine's. Reading Augustine I find a lot of pride and spite. Remember he was just a man.
Hi Don. This is a great comment. In the understanding of original sin that was refined in the Middle Ages, people are not really "guilty" in a literal sense because of what Adam and Eve did. Neither were their descendants "stained" in any literal way such that you'd see a baby born with a black mark on its soul due to Adam, if you had special eyes to see that kind of thing. Original sin is not really a thing but the absence of a thing. It is the *lack* of the indwelling presence of God, which is what people need for glory. Adam could not pass this indwelling divine life to his descendants because he himself lost it. Our first parent can give us only natural life not the supernatural life we need. But precisely because God *was* forgiving, he sent his Son into the world to give us back what Adam had lost, and then some. I hope this helps.
@@peterbrown6612 Exactly, Adam & Eve lost grace & thus had none to give. it is like Adam & Ever were born to a billionaire Rockefeller. They received from their father a great treasure. They then squandered their inheritance. What they had lost could not be inherited by their children b/c it was gone. The Sons & Daughters of Eve now receive the gift of grace by being adopted by the work of the Son.
Thank you for the content. Very enlightening to me. Although by God's Grace both of these sons of His could have made it to heaven!! Of course sound doctrine is an absolute necessity. That is why we need sound students of theology that can decipher through theological texts to bring proper nourishment to the searching soul .
So he was once a manichean . He kept learning and rejected it and he became a bishop . You should stick to the fact that he was not a heretic because he submitted always to the Catholic Church and agreed with the church when ever he was exposed to a theological truth that was previously unknown to him. And he became a Catholic bishop and a saint . Be careful not to be guilty of calumny . He learned of God by his love of God and though he grew up in a place flooded with bad philosophy and surrounded by pagan theologians he ultimately came to embrace the truth . He should be recognized for his mental prowess and earnestness in seeking God .
Sir. Satan is NOT an angel. Please be perfectly correct when you teach such important things. Satan WAS a covering cherub. A cherub IS NOT an angel. He does though APPEARS AS an angel, as an angel of light. And NOT, NOT as an evil entity.
This makes so much sense. I spent four years in seminary and the struggle to figure these issues out comes down to one thing. The East battled in Christology. The West battled on anthropology. Thanks for sharing these videos!
Thanks for watching:)
Ready for my presentation! Thanks a lot!
Mr. D'Ambrosio, This is staggeringly good. Explained with such clarity that even a simple brain as mine is able to readily grasp what you are telling us. And what must be the hallmark of a good tutor, leaving this student, dreading the end of the Lecture. Hoping you or good Peter Brown (presumably not THE Peter Brown) will be uploading more??
Coming soon!
This lecture was of great aid to my project on human nature,sin and grace. Thanks!
I never understood much until after this video thanks to you!
I grew up Russian Orthodox and attended Catholic elementary school a couple years. I never heard the doctrine of By grace are you saved through faith and not of your selves, it ( salvation ) is the Gift of God, not of works...Eph.2:8,9. It wasn't till I was 20 years old well steeped in sin that a stranger witnessed the clear gospel of salvation to me. He then opened the Bible to the above verses and asked me to read them. I read them, meditated on the scripture. Suddenly for the first time in my life I understood that the Lord wants to save me not on the basis of how good I was or how bad I was. The offer of salvation is a free gift to be received simply by believing the gospel that The Lord Jesus Christ died for my sins according to the scripture, was buried, and rose the 3rd day from the dead. 1Cor.15:1-4. I realized that the Lord did this personally for me. I was born again by the Holy Spirit. It has been 47 years I am saved. Life has its ups and downs, but I never regretted that the Lord saved me. After my believing the gospel I attended a church that actually teaches the scripture by opening the Bible. It makes a world of difference not just to believe traditions, your priest, your pastor or even the Pope or Metropolitan ( eastern orthodox ).
Faith comes by hearing, and by hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17
On judgment day The Lord will not ask you what church you attended, or if you grew up in a Christian home. You will not be able to blame your parents, your pastors, or popes if they got it wrong and you did not open the Bible to look for yourself. You are responsible for your own salvation. That's why the Lord has the Bible translated into different languages for all to read. If you have Bibles sitting in your house and you never open it, you are missing out on the Greatest Gift of all: To personally know the LORD GOD creator of heaven and earth, and to enjoy Him now and for all eternity.
I recommend to start by reading the gospel of John.
I enjoyed the teaching and have learned from it. Thank you and the Lord bless you all.
It would be helpful if all the CTT videos were put in order in a playlist.
Thank you very much what you have said and discussed. I have just realised how much of western society is based on the descions theologians made in the 5th Century. If the ideas of free will and no original sin had been accepted. Schools and education would see, teach, realise and encourage the potential in people!
Great video, highly informative!
Thanks for watching!
One could say Augustine espoused Arminian theology in his earlier life as demonstrated in this video. But after his sharp disagreements with Pelagius, he took certain aspects of grace a step further. He was the first one in Christianity that espoused what is known today as Calvinism.
In fact, he backtracked into the determinism of his former Manachaism. Determinism had been universally rejected and never taught in the church until Augustine taught this heresy.
Calvinism minus eternal security and assurance.
@@generalguy6211Augustine believed in the Perseverance of the Saints
Grace comes through faith, which faith a measure has been given to every man that comes into the World. If we all have unexercised faith at birth, in a way we do simply need to "buck up" and believe God. When we do, grace (the power of God from the indwelling Holy Spirit) gives us power to do what faith stepped out to obtain. Communion with God. We are free and empowered to walk in light, holiness, and godliness, without which no man shall see or commune with God. Believing includes that He loved us so much that He gave His son to atone for sin, that we are forgiven for past sins and become Saints when the Holy Spirit takes up residence because of our exercised faith. Only love can place a stronger demand on us than the temptation of sin. It is the new commandment for a reason. Think of marital fidelity. You may be tempted to betray your marriage, the most important thing in your life by an affair, but your love for your spouse constrains you. Understanding how much our relationship meant to God also constrains us from playing the harlot against the love of God as displayed by the cross. Faith works by love. We are in the Father and the Son as Jesus was in the Father on Earth.
The reason why the Eastern Church never saw the big issue is because the Orthodox have a totally different interpretation of Original Sin. The West altered this perception with focusing solely on St. Augustine's exigesis of Romans 5. He admits that his Greek was limited and had very little contact with the original Greek patristic tradition. As a scholar you could explore this distinction.
Hi! Where does Augustine write about the doctrine of original sin? what book?
I would check out the Anti-Pelagian writings and possibly his 2nd commentary on Romans to start. Thanks for watching.
@@peterbrown6612 Thanks!
@@Bogonavt my pleasure. Let me know if you find what you are looking for.
thank you!
Is pronunciation both Aw-gus-steen and A-GUS-Stin? I have been looking everywhere and finding both depending on location and denomination.
English speaking Catholics usually say AuGUSTine. But speakers of Spanish, French Italian etc...AugooooSTEEEN.
Augustin accused Pelagius of 14 points of heresy that Pelagius didnt even espouse. Pelagius was not a heretic, Augustine was just jealous and angry with Pelagius. This video is reinforcing error in fact
We don't know much of what the historic Pelagius said directly and some of what was imputed to him was derived from what his disciples were saying. So not disagreeing with your basic point here.
I think it’s ironic that Pelagius is considered a false teacher when it was Roman Catholic heretics who surrendered to gnostic doctrines that condemned him. Pelagius was by far closer to biblical truth then the popes and bishops who condemned him for heresy.
Please… AA & Al Anon in my experience are God help programs.
Doesn't the teaching of original sin inevitably lead to the teaching of predestination? Does the eastern orthodox church adhere to Augustinian Theology?
Well the doctrine of predestination is clearly taught in scripture, so there is a Catholic version of it which is different than the more familiar Calvinist version. I don't want to speak for the Eastern Orthodox but I suspect they are less enamored of Augustine than we are in the West.
@@peterbrown6612 in the bible? Wow just NO!!! And no the Eastern church has very different teaching on salvation,free will and grace so clearly Augustines teachings are an interpretation of scripture ..
It is hard not to notice that power and its distribution are in the background of this whole lecture. Power of the Pope, power of councils, power of the theologians whose doctrine is accepted. If you want power over your followers, telling them that they are inherently sinful, even if they haven't done anything bad, is a good move. Their judgement, after all, is by definition faulty or "fallen", so how could they know anything?
It is interesting that Paul's musing about his behavior in one sentence of a lengthy set of writings was transformed into a doctrine that has caused so many people to think badly of themselves for centuries was promulgated at almost the exact moment that the Church made its bargain with Constantine and thus became part of the Roman empire's Establishment, with all the wealth and trappings associated.
Augustine certainly made Pelagius pay for his differing opinion. He ruined him. I had thought that Jesus mentioned something about loving thy neighbor and doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. But perhaps, because his theological insight was so powerful (and useful!), Saint Augustine was exempt from these petty considerations.
The Roman "EmPire" couldn't get the Church to compromise with 3 centuries of persecutions. The Church never bargained with ConStantinus. Pelagius and Augustinus were both heretics. Pelagius preached a works "gospel" in which he denied the indispensability of Baptism for Salvation. Augustinus doubletalked about freewill and even "allowed" "nfp" and "divorce".
@@miguelpasamano4995 you think baptism is necessary
Do tell when the theif on the cross was baptized
Chapter and verse kjv I'll wait
@@jaygee470 heretic you do realize Saint Dismas died under the Old TestaMent, the Limbo of the Fathers was called "ParaDise" 'cause Jesus Was there, all the Old TestaMents Saints were ReSurrected under the New TestaMent thus also had to be Baptized, you're unqualified to speak before you honestly read The Shepherd of Hermas, and the "kjv" is a Masonic vernacularization of a Grecization of a Latinization of the apostate corrupt invalid post-Apostolic-era "Masoretic" texts right?
@@miguelpasamano4995 I realize you have no scripture and made man doctrine of devils
@@miguelpasamano4995 I realize you call filthy vile demonic men saints 😤 that don't nor did have the Holy Spirit and are burning in hell
I realize this may be your first and last time to accept the truth and leave the harlot in Scarlett
But will you
THE REASON FOR HIS RESURRECTION
isaiah : WITH his stripes we are healed", The stripes that man gave him out of sin become his own BURDEN, he who had no sin became sin for us, BY which he REDEEMS unto the Biblical words "I Hurt & I Heal" (Job) ," My Burden is light & My Yoke easy" the words that underscore the Communion (Know why Satanists hate/Desecrate the Eucharist, cause Sin cannot withstand pain, other than to give) The Body & Blood of the STRIPED Christ received through FAITH, The GRACE,
FAITH, has its works within, comes through following the TWO COMMANDMENTS of Love (denoted by the Bronze image of St Peter in Peters Basilica, The two Commandments that hang in the two keys of heaven, -- The universal Doctrine of the Church) amounting to picking up ones own cross daily to following him as commanded, thus Equating WITH his sacrifice on the Cross
So, the stripes that man gave him he uses to REDEEM, is the reason why "It pleased God to Bruise him " Not for the bruises itself but for its Fruit, FOR WHICH HE HAD TO RESURRECT that he did, cause the BURDENS of our sins could not hold him down in hell (where Sin & death rules) as he was found stronger than Sin itself, unto his words (I have overcome the world" (its sins) to say there is no sin that he cannot remove
This is basically a Conversion act instead of a Substitution (magical) act as generally believed by Protestants, The Error has its origins through Protestantism's theologically leavening the Faith by Faith Only, that James specifically says is not, unto mis interpretation Paul (the reason why Martin Luther rejected James cause it was a hinderance to his erranous view of redemption) and the philosophies that arise out of the leavens becomes to another Christ another Gospel Incidentally the source of the prophesied Apostasy theologically in the leavens of the Faith, through Protestantization,
Augustine may have been wrong on most of the big issues, but he certainly was influential. Calvinists have incorporated many of his basic misunderstandings.
I disagree with him on some things and Calvin followed him and pushed his problematic positions to an even greater extreme. But it seems to me on the truly big issues he was right on! Sacraments, the Donatists and Pelagians being wrong, there being an original sin and the rejection of Manicheanism.
@@peterbrown6612 Original sin meaning we all have a sin nature? or Original sin as in we are all guilty of a crime we did not commit? Both are absolutely absurd ideas unsupported by scripture. Augustine and Calvin taught the world that God is an unforgiving monster that punishes people for crimes they did not commit and also poured out his wrath on a completely innocent person. I think they were wrong about nearly everything that matters.
@@investfluent4143 i think you misunderstand the doctrine of original sin. But in any case it's rooted in humanity being subjugated by sin see Romans 3:9, 5:12-14 and Hebrews 2:12-14.
@@peterbrown6612 It may be that I misunderstand the doctrine of Original Sin. There are several such doctrines so it is hard to know which one you or I are referring to. There is the version where all people are born a sinners and we therefore need to baptize our children. I think that is Reformed and Catholic perhaps. There is the version where you are born with a sin nature. That seems to be the common view among protestants. And there is a version where Adam and Eve were the first to sin. That seems to be the one found in the Bible. I hold to the last view. The first two views are absurd and unbiblical. I have read all of those verses you put forward. It is not as though I am unaware of them. Certainly, everyone asides from Christ is guilty of their own sin. That is not an original sin doctrine. Please elaborate.
@@investfluent4143 Right...the idea of Paul and others is more nuanced...basically that there is a kind of dominion of sin and death that all are born into. It isnt that everyone is literally guilty for what Adam did. Paul doesn't really explain how the dominion extends to everyone or what it means at the anthropological level...but that human beings cannot rescue themselves because of the way human nature is or because of the way the world is is clearly in Romans and Hebrews...indeed it's found also in the Gospel of John 2:23-25...right before Jesus talks about being "born from above." Original sin is sin by condition nor by commission.
But Pelagius didn't attack Augustine, this video isn't honest
Augustine was wrong. Augustine said that humanity was fallen from grace and retained a permanent stain from Adam's original sin. However, God said in Genesis that we were made in the image and likeness of God; Jesus said we are the light of the world. Augustine says I'm evil and fallen; God says I'm made in His image and likeness; and Jesus says I'm the light of the world. God and Jesus must be correct, which means Augustine is wrong.
As for the Pelagian heresy - Pelagius' beliefs are more in line with Jewish theology. And that's where the Church (Eastern and Western) gets it wrong. If Jesus was Jewish and the first part of the Christian Bible is the Jewish scriptures, then the foundation of Christian theology must be Jewish theology. Christian theology must be Jewish theology with Jesus added to it. If the Church's theology differs from Jewish theology, then the Church is wrong. If the Church differs from Jewish theology, then the Church is in heresy not Pelagius.
Josh, I agree.
Most Christians have not studied Augustine's writing in chronological order. He wrote in alignment with 50 early Christian writers, then changed in response to Palagius. His response was so impulsive, that he made mistakes.
Are you Seventh-day Adventist?
@@janezietlow2851 No. I'm an ante-Nicene Catholic. I believe in the Christian faith the way it was before Constantine and the Councils of Nicaea. I reject all church creeds and decrees and the like made after Constantine's supposed "conversion."
Peter brown. Your not substantive. Grace is all around you. Only if you have the eyes too see or ears to hear will you understand grace and what jesus called the kingdom of heaven which is all around you. Kingdom of heaven and grace are the same. Its takes a shift in consciousness too experience this state of being. Our current state of being is a separation from the gods that we are and therefor are not able to experience grace because we are separated from it. It's always there if we can see or experience it.
Pelagius was a hero who fought against the ROMAN STOOGE Augustine who murdered his fellow Christians
Perhaps God does not punish sinners. Perhaps, we all are faced with hardship. If we help one another through that, we will inevitably be changed and will not die. "Whatever doesn't kill me, makes me stronger," said nietzsche. St. Paul said experience builds character and that produces hope. The Gospel of James said that perseverance is rewarded with a trasformation that offers faith, hope and charity.
There's no such thing as the "GoSpel of James". That's pseudepigrapha.
Title is misleading. I would title it "The Augustinian Heresy and Pelagius".
There is no free will outside enlightenment or salvation.
Our free will is compromised by our fallen condition, not nullified. Grace builds on our nature, it doesn't alter or contradict it. It builds on, heals, strengthens & transforms our nature; transforms in the sense of elevates it.
@@VictorLepanto very articulate. Well said.
I find that I lean toward certain Pelagian beliefs....the idea of transmitted or inherited sin is silly in my estimation. An infant still possesses the glow of Heaven in his eyes....I became aware of this fact at a baptism of all places....baptism marks a child as Christ's own, so it is a protection rather than a preventative. I can imagine, as Pelagius did, that under certain circumstances, a human may be raised and live entirely without sin or nearly so....we have in our Western tradition examples of this (albeit literary)....Galahad (raised by nuns in a secluded convent), Percival (also raised in a convent I believe_)....and we deem the Blessed Virgin to have been without sin. I can imagine a young novice nun, cloistered from an early age, living a blameless life. We still need Christ's salvation and grace, because the world gets to us all, and sinning is the result....we arent inherently sinful at first, but we are certainly capable of sinning quite of our own free will.....
Ok but the more refined presentation of the idea is original sin as something lacking: the indwelling life of God that makes resurrection life possible. This lacuna is what baptism fills. An unbaptized infant is not evil though but good and can grow to do good things. But he's not good enough....he has natural life and goodness but needs the supernatural life and goodness that comes not naturally but only as a gift from God. I hope that helps.
Pelagius did not teach what this video states he taught.
Pelagius said, "we need Grace for every situation and moment of the day and those who don't believe this are anathema".
Roman Catholicism is a Cult and are anathema
@@jeffneub3578 who is talking about Roman Catholicism?
This is historically selective in relation to the church's councils and popes findings about Pelagius and hence it is not accurate.
I was brought up thinking I didn't need God to be good (Pelagianism); then I realized I needed Him but still believed God helps those who help themselves (Semi-Pelagianism); now, as a middle-aged man, I know I can't help myself and my sanctification is ENTIRELY the work of the Holy Spirit.
No one will ever convince me that heresies are mere intellectual controversies of no practical importance: our salvation depends on getting it right...
Didn't Saint Augustin write something to the effect that 'Do what you can and ask the grace to do what you cannot do'?
Isn't that semi-pelagianism?
Perhaps that was the young, heretical Saint Augustine?
To think that God would hold the sin's of two people over our heads for all of eternity goes against the very teachings of Christ. Something called forgiveness. Augustine was a week man like the rest of us. He in my opinion, did not like hearing the truth. Pelaian's teaching are closer to the Apostolic father's than Augustine's. Reading Augustine I find a lot of pride and spite. Remember he was just a man.
Hi Don. This is a great comment. In the understanding of original sin that was refined in the Middle Ages, people are not really "guilty" in a literal sense because of what Adam and Eve did. Neither were their descendants "stained" in any literal way such that you'd see a baby born with a black mark on its soul due to Adam, if you had special eyes to see that kind of thing. Original sin is not really a thing but the absence of a thing. It is the *lack* of the indwelling presence of God, which is what people need for glory. Adam could not pass this indwelling divine life to his descendants because he himself lost it. Our first parent can give us only natural life not the supernatural life we need. But precisely because God *was* forgiving, he sent his Son into the world to give us back what Adam had lost, and then some. I hope this helps.
@@peterbrown6612 Exactly, Adam & Eve lost grace & thus had none to give.
it is like Adam & Ever were born to a billionaire Rockefeller. They received from their father a great treasure. They then squandered their inheritance. What they had lost could not be inherited by their children b/c it was gone. The Sons & Daughters of Eve now receive the gift of grace by being adopted by the work of the Son.
@@VictorLepanto Thanks for watching:)
Pelagius was a cymro 🏴🤴🏻Y gwir yn erbyn y byd
footnote: this is a biased interpetation. Check other sources before you decide on Pelagian.
Thank you for the content. Very enlightening to me. Although by God's Grace both of these sons of His could have made it to heaven!!
Of course sound doctrine is an absolute necessity. That is why we need sound students of theology that can decipher through theological texts to bring proper nourishment to the searching soul .
So he was once a manichean . He kept learning and rejected it and he became a bishop . You should stick to the fact that he was not a heretic because he submitted always to the Catholic Church and agreed with the church when ever he was exposed to a theological truth that was previously unknown to him. And he became a Catholic bishop and a saint . Be careful not to be guilty of calumny .
He learned of God by his love of God and though he grew up in a place flooded with bad philosophy and surrounded by pagan theologians he ultimately came to embrace the truth .
He should be recognized for his mental prowess and earnestness in seeking God .
He was too a heretic. He taught "Baptism of blood/desire" and "allowed" "divorce" and "nfp"
Fantasy land
this is the typical misrepresentation of Pelagius.
Sir. Satan is NOT an angel. Please be perfectly correct when you teach such important things. Satan WAS a covering cherub. A cherub IS NOT an angel. He does though APPEARS AS an angel, as an angel of light. And NOT, NOT as an evil entity.
No the devil ain’t no cherub u taking from Ezekiel 28 however if u read the context it’s talking about a king
Utrdf hpfgh koniz vogft
Satan was a angel that has fallen.
the foreknowledge of God? heresy lol
So your false "god" doesn't know everything?