Why Toby and Jenna’s Relationship In Pretty Little Liars Was Problematic | Ep 17
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- Опубліковано 2 лют 2025
- This week we are unpacking episode 17 and discussing our favorite and least favorite character moments. Tammin and Lindsey share how Hannah’s mom could have redeemed herself with just one line, and also reveal if they liked Chad Lowe’s character. Lindsey talks about the best scene ever, aka Paige and Emily’s first kiss, and also addresses Paige’s dad’s aggression. Tammin questions why Toby is so afraid of Jenna, and also gives her insight on their problematic relationship.
What is the craziest case Joseph Scott has handled? Will Chad Lowe be joining the podcast? And who is Tammin and Lindsey’s favorite nepo baby??
Follow Joseph @josephscottmorgan on Instagram and @JoScottForensics on X/Twitter.
Follow Lindsey @ladymshawsters on Instagram and TikTok.
Follow Tammin @tamminsursok on Instagram and TikTok.
Follow Pretty Little Liars: True Crime on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and UA-cam.
I think Toby didn't turn Jenna down because she had been telling him that it would be easy for her to convince the dad that he was forcing himself on her. He probably didn't want to chance it with his past record too
Yes! Came here to say this. The clip that the girls see that Ian had recorded is Jenna taking Toby's clothes off and saying "it would be so easy for me to convince my mommy and your daddy that you took advantage of me." and Toby was already considered "problematic" at that point so he just did whatever Jenna wanted him to do so he wouldn't have to deal with any issues from his dad and step mom. Also I could be wrong but I think Jenna getting the lace was for Garrett and not Toby at this point.
Yup, I remember her saying that to him.
Just scrolled down to say this.
Truth
lol yes they miss so much in these rewatches lmao.
I have a question for Joe Scott!!!!
How does rain affect a crime scene? In the books it is raining on the night Ali disappears, how does this affect dna retrieval from the scene?
Great question!
Great question!
The silence about north west in the lion king was so loud!!!!😂😂😂😂😂
16:29 Toby knew the girls were there when Jenna got blinded. That’s the whole reason why Alison was able to get away with it because she threatened to tell everyone that Toby was a pervert.
Jenna was afraid of the girls because Alison had that hidden camera footage of Jenna and Toby together. The girls aren’t aware of that yet at this point in the story. Toby doesn’t know about the hidden tape either.
Jenna was an abuser towards Toby and the hidden camera clip of them in front of the mirror was heartbreaking and hard to watch.
i like it when tammin goes back into her Australian accent.
Even if she's speaking American. Her Aussie slips in and out and you can hear it to
It would have been nice to Hannah’s mom to admit that she knew what she was doing was wrong but i don’t see a parent admitting their mistakes to their teenager.
When Lindsey said “she meant a lot to me” and choked up, I immediately got chills and teary eyed. I really hated Paige as a character but I do love Lindsey ❤️
Love my Mondays because of this podcast
🙌🏻 my favorite day of the week. When this podcast drops 🫶🏻
Pam said ‘I still don’t understand. But I love you. you’re my child and no body harms my child. I’m so sorry if..’ and then Emily hugs her bc she sees her mom is crying and she leans in to comfort her
I love Joe Scotts accent! Could listen to him all day!
I agree with Tammin and how it’s hard to care for the characters on the show. If any of them died, it wouldn’t have been that sad. The only character that most of us really cared about was Mona and I think we saw that when they killed her off in season 5 and everyone on social media was upset asf, I remember at the time. I think that’s why they brought her back.
Mona’s fake death was always the plan, they filmed all at the same time so it was already written, nothing about the fans being angry about it lol
@@josearaujo2801they had a break in between filming the first part of season 5 and the second part so no it wasn’t all filmed at once.
Part 2 of season 5 was filmed in the months that PLL was off the air until it returned the following January
I disagree some of the characters we would be sad about like Caleb
@@taxablevoice5926 ermm, he was defo the best PLL guy but still you never really got attached to the character.
@peaceandlove679 I guess only few did
I could say so many great things about this podcast, but, right now, what’s top of mind is how much I love the way you have humanized Joseph Scott Morgan and introduced him to a whole demographic of people who see him in a new light - (always) top of his craft; top of his game, but, now, also, we get peeks into his personal life, we truly see him as a television consultant and I hope this opens many new doors for him … you two ladies have really done us a service with this podcast - keep up the brilliant work ❤❤❤
Lindsey's shirt!! Dad on vacation vibes. 😎
Love it! 🍹🍹🍹
“We love you, Joseph!” 😂
Luv y'all back 😉
I agree with offering a seat to a pregnant woman, disabled person, or elderly person!
We call it tuckshop and canteen in uk!!! Australia and uk is so similar
BE A GOOD PERSON 🙌 Yes. I feel like it was more engrained in us more in the past. I'm a kid of the 90's and I care about people. I will help strangers and be kind. It's free! Sprinkle it everywhere! It makes me feel good to be nice. 😊
My girls are back. I love you two. So open so disgusting but so funny. This is amazing. Keep up the good work
Toby is afraid of Jenna and doesn't stop her advances even though he wants to because she threatened to tell their parents he is the persuer and forcing HER. So he is scared of those repercussions because they both know their parents will believe the narrarive that the boy coerced the girl rather than the other way around. Especially because the boy has been to juvie so has a track record of doing bad things.
When yall do the rewatch for the very last episode I really hope you cut to this episode where you say, "spencer is that your perfume?" The foreshadowing without knowing it is hilarious! Around 19:40-45 ish. 😂
when Jenna said “He likes lace” she’s talking about Garret
I'm actually loving these two! I beleive they should of had more screen time!
I hear ya Tammin, I (a petit woman) was Gare du Nord station in Paris, visibly struggling with my suitcase up the stairs as I tried to get to the Eurostar section - a bloke came along and didn’t even ask if I needed help, he just helped me
I know it’s a few seasons away for you to recap, but I NEED to know Tammin’s thoughts on it being Jenna and a psychic horse that helped solve the mystery of A as Alex Drake 😂
Pretty Little Liars needs a reboot but darker
If there is one thing the hbo reboot taught us is there could never be another PLL. But as an OG fan of the books and TV show, the 2000s/2010s setting before social media and technology became what it is today is one of its biggest appeal. The whole concept of A just can't work in 2024
happy birthday Tammin 🥰♥
In the second PLL book, Toby was SAing Jenna. Ali knew this and wanted to light firecrackers close to his treehouse to scare him. It's interesting that the TV show writers chose to change this storyline. My guess is because Toby being a predat0r is not young adult friendly TV. But they did ruin Jenna's character and made her much worse than she was in the books.
Love the way this episode started 😂😂
Lindsey looks so good, love this ❤❤❤❤
Would love a deep dive into Linds character, Paige, and how she feels grateful 💜
Happy birthday Tammin
I love this podcast ❤
Random thought- the show constantly talks about Aria being vegan. But yet throughout the show she’s eating ice cream, grilled cheese, pizza, and coffee with cream. 😵💫
Omgggggg
she was ever vegan, she was vegeterian. so she doesn't eat meat but other animal products, she does.
I love to hear you guys talk about chilvalry admiration. I see so much chatter about how it’s dead and I’ve had the “ick” in dating when it’s missing. It’s not anti feminist to help people like you said even women offer to help men if they see a struggle. I love helpfulness.
Love these ladies 💕
Joseph Scott Morgan is on a podcast on audible called ‘Body Bag’. For those who like is work. ❤
Jenna scared the hell out of me on the show! Well acted!
18:10 holy $hit, did you watch the show or not? Jenna threatened to Toby that she is going to lie to everyone that he SA-ed her if he doesn't have $ex with her!! This is the second time I have commented about this matter. Part of the show is to watch along the episodes, please pay attention. I know there is a lot of things happening, but don't skip SA like Blake Lively skipped DV in her movie.
No but they find that out the next episode
I’m just as frustrated as you! They admitted they didn’t watch the show so I guess that’s how it’s gonna be. Not sure why they wanted to do a podcast of a show they haven’t seen
@@fainafaina1 I swear the part when the people find out about jenna threatening Toby is in next ep tho
@@fainafaina1 we watch every episode from the beginning so it’s finding everything out in real time. We also shoot 12 episodes in two days - so we are recapping 12 episodes. :)
@@TamminSursok well I’m glad you guys are finally watching the show then! Maybe you’ll actually love it lol. You’ll get your answer soon on why Toby is scared of Jenna.
I kind of wish they tagged the time when they start talking about pretty little liars so I can skip the rest
7:47
I was today years old when I found out Byron is Rob Lowe’s little brother! Lol 🤯
To the bus topic : ppl do not have respect anymore that sad
From tobys perspective, his parents might already see him as a trouble maker, so hes probably letting jenna do this out of fear of being kicked out of his house and disowned from their family
The lace comment is about Garrett !!! Who is also an older man in town dating a young girl
32:49 No,in my family we are s workoholics so we live to work😂😂😂😅
Early on a PLL podcast...who dis ?!
Great conversation ladies
😂 loved this episode
As a physically disabled man it’s wild to see that a physically disabled character like Jenna is portrayed as evil. Tammin did an extraordinary job portraying her but it would’ve been nice if the author had written her not to be an SA to Toby.
Our trans representation was the most evil character in the show, a m^rderer, kinda sorta r^ped her brother/cousin ... wanna trade portrayals? Haha 😂 no but honestly all the characters in this show were bad ppl tho to be fair
@@jadebel7006Cece never slept or kissed Jason
Love you guys❤❤❤
It’s the blackmail they are afraid of “I’m going to say we did anyway”
I always thought where the hell were Toby and Jenna’s parents? Because we see the girls parents even Mona’s mom. Everything they went through like Toby under house arrest and I mean Jenna going blind!! No parents to be seen lol
Jenna almost died while A didn’t care to hurt Paige .
It would have been nice to Hannah’s mom to admit that she knew what she was doing was wrong but i don’t see a parent admitting their mistakes to their teenager. We would also greatly care if Jenna died.
💚😂"Hey Babe,grab my car keys!"🤣💚
tea time: my mom grew up in california and went to a party somewhere with friends and saw both rob and chad lol. she said the rob was to die for of course, and that chad was really funny and ultra kind and down to earth. apparently, they spoke all night and then she never saw them again..
I love when Tammin goes bogan 😂😂
I'm with Tammin; Dean Kane is still my jam. I even have an autographed picture of him hanging on my wall.
"Do your farts smell?" 🙃
"Yes." 🙂
Tuck shop is also an English-ism so probably originated over with us.
Yeah, I never totally understood the whole 'Jenna Thing' I understood the blinding a person, but it seemed like there was going to be something else as well.
Like that their was something else that Jenna had something else on the girls, and maybe thats why they did the fireworks thing to Jenna.
Would yall consider having JoScott’s wife as a guest? I, for one, would LOVE that … so, I’m sure others would, too
Hahaha..... I love Tammin! Tuck shop is sooo east coast Aus. But yes, it's canteen where I live in SA.
But I'm sorry, I feel like Pam only stuck up for Emily because Emily made it clear she didn't think Pam gave a shit about her, she was trying to make a point, and I think that scene was worth less because of the interaction that immediately preceding it.
8:52 😂 South Africans also say Tuckshop 😂 31:51 the problem is just blindly believing someone, people lie, the bible tells us this but it would help if people decided to actually finish the book. 2 problems in that but let’s not get deep 😂
It's sad that some people misrepresent Jesus and God. But that is why He calls us to follow HIM not people. Cuz we're still broken humans that mess up. Even as Christians, we still mess up. But it's sad that some people misrepresent it. Also--Loving people is not just accepting their wrongdoings/sins. Loving someone is sometimes calling them UP to a higher standard and encouraging them to be better too. But great and interesting conversation there at the end of their chat.
As a Christian, I feel like sometimes people/christians ruin what God is really about!
What situation are they referring to at 31:00?
In the cafeteria Emily mom apologized to Emily for the way she treated her and seeing be treated like that. One of them said that unless you are harming people then just love and accept people. The other asked “what do you think it means to harm people” so she was explaining what she felt it meant to be harming people and she briefly answered it in a way that I don’t think was expected.
I want you guys to go on the zelvx and CharlieGirl podcast. I feel like Tammin and Charlie would vibe together
I don’t want to sound like a prude, but do we have to be making comments about farts in the beginning of the video? It just feels super immature. We’re watching to talk about PLL and other real life topics, I don’t know why the toilet humor is necessary. Again not trying to hate, I love this podcast.
We will never change 😂 If you came for fun, honesty and a pll rewatch then you’re in the right place. Farts and all 🎉
Tammin-and- Lindsey
#TMIFRIENDSHIP🤐
Joe Scott im requesting a dm filled with your darkest death jokes. I would love to know the unmentioned comments 😂
On the bus thing I bus everywhere on my own and I have chronic back pain and autism (so after a day of peopling whether it’s working or just being out around people) and I need a fucking seat my balance is also super not good when the bus is moving between stops. I get tired and energy depleted cert fast. I can’t stand once I’m there because there too many spoons to try and balance and also not hurt myself too (I’m just below average female height) so that doesn’t help. I get so many dirty looks when I don’t get up because I’m 27 and look perfectly able bodied.
Also Ezra is 22 and Ella would be 40 ish which is not appropriate in my opinion like it’s legal but he’s early 20s
This is what I would like to know if you could please answer, how exactly did Jenna go blind? We know the fireworks went off but did they go off in here eyes did the flames from the fire get In her eyes, like how exactly were only her eyes injured but not the rest of her body?
when there’s a large flash or bomb like that in close range it can blind you, you can lose you’re hearing, and of course suffer from multiple injuries. if that makes sense.
Speaking of parents - what parent(s) drives you insane on the show? For me it´s Byron and Pam. I get their intentions and so on, but sometimes I just want to shove them in a closet and call Mona to come get them. 😅
I went to go buy Joe Scott’s book and it’s £40 😱
We keep asking for u guys to bring some of the cast as guests, and u keep ignoring us 🥲
I think these episodes are pre filmed months before they are released
Yeah they record three months at a time
@Geo_x1975x wow didn't know that
Why do they do it
They said the actor of Byron Arias dad will be coming on... which mehhhh lol
Just looked him up Chad Lowe, guess he recently said on twitter can someone explain the appeal of nose piercings.. I just have a tiny ball what's the friggin issue 😂 yikes
@@joseemariesinger ooo exciting
Can yall talk about the it end it’s with us drama? i so want a behind the scenes perspective
Come on guys at least watch the episode before. You will have so much more to offer your viewers if you do
We do. And we batch. So it’s 12 episodes in two days. 🤪
They do watch the show
They watc show before the ep is shown
I don’t think guys don’t offer to help anymore because feminist say they don’t want it. A guy offers to help some women would say I don’t your help or do you not think I can do it myself. Personally I hate how things have changed the last few years regarding men and women. It’s a conversation that really should be had.
Now Tammin doesn't have shoes on but Lindsay does? What is going on? 😅
Lindsay still isent wearing shoes……
Lindsay dosent wear shoes because she feels hot she sisd last ep
@@User34451 oh, in the last frame I noticed she was wearing shoes. Thought it was amusing
Nose ring holes = that smell lmaoo luckily it's not constant 😅
I love you ladies so much! But as a deconstructed former Baptist fundamentalist, sometimes it is hard to listen to the religious chat.
no thank u to dean cain, his trump loving political views r beyond disgusting and hateful.
Well it was back in the day aka 1990
Well you’ve kinda cancelled chivalry so 😭