What if Villagers Could PLANT Berries?

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  • Опубліковано 5 вер 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 109

  • @HRDHayHay
    @HRDHayHay Місяць тому +42

    Walling the whole map with indestructible berry bushes

    • @hassam363
      @hassam363 Місяць тому +3

      You would have to give bushes HP and make them destructable

    • @richardn1181
      @richardn1181 Місяць тому +2

      @@hassam363 Or only allowing bushes to be close to a mill.

  • @karlekstrom4281
    @karlekstrom4281 Місяць тому +24

    Properly balanced plantable berry bushes would honestly be an amazing addition to the base game; it would make expanding our food eco much more nuanced, as we can opt for cheap and safe, but slow, berry bushes, or large and expensive, bur fast, farms. Excellent video mate and I truly wish this was added way back in ~1999

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks! It's definitely fun and intuitive, so you wonder why they never added it in the first place, then again the original game (and especially AoC) was pretty rushed, so they cut a lot of features for time.

  • @oneoneonefour
    @oneoneonefour Місяць тому +5

    This is a really cool idea. I like that you broke down the efficiency of farms and lumberjacks versus berries right away to help put everything into perspective. I think every civ would have to be able to plant bushes, but lots of different civs could have unique bonuses to make them more appealing. It'd certainly add depth to the food economy in the game, which right now is basically just good hunting, good farming, and on water maps, maybe good fishing.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      Honestly yeah, there's no reason that most/every civ couldn't have this. I was thinking in terms of civ bonus, but like the Khmer house bonus, in theory this is something that every civ would have had access to.

  • @quasibrodo923
    @quasibrodo923 Місяць тому +16

    Also idea for a future video, cav archers that can fire while moving.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +6

      Great idea! I may or may not be able to mod that, but I'll look into it.

    • @cmlcml415
      @cmlcml415 Місяць тому +2

      Rise of Nations gogo 😁

    • @purevsurenpuje9283
      @purevsurenpuje9283 Місяць тому +3

      Its named by parthian tactic but its give you more armor and +2bonus damage haha

    • @quasibrodo923
      @quasibrodo923 Місяць тому +2

      @@purevsurenpuje9283 exactly! Like maybe the engine just can’t handle attacking while moving so how else do you encapsulate the effect of CA being on the move, being harder to hit in return? Give them more armor so each attack does less. But yeah Parthian tactics tech actually allowing Parthian tactics in game would be sooooo cool.
      Relatedly is it just me or does it feel weird that a tech that primarily affects armor isn’t at the blacksmith? Same with gambesons. Or that just ocd on my part?

    • @AEGISAOE
      @AEGISAOE Місяць тому +1

      w

  • @vartosu11
    @vartosu11 Місяць тому +5

    If AOE2 was a city builder or some other slow-paced genre, it'd be feasible. As it's an RTS war-themed game, farms are a very simplified way of signifying anything agriculture related. It doesn't make much sense to add needless complexity to it.
    Imagine pressing the farm button, and that itself opens a sub-menu where you gotta decide whether you grow turnips, pumpkins, carrots, onions etc. or build pig, cattle, chicken enclosures with various numbers attached to them for their cost and food yield. After crunching the numbers, people are just going to spam whatever farm is most efficient and be done with it. The end goal is to pump knights into the enemy base and win faster, not fiddle around, contemplating orchards vs vineyards.
    If they wanted, devs could've made more farm visual varieties in the game, with different crops, some with fruit, some orchards, some even animal pens etc. but it'd be all cosmetic in the end. In RTS games, food is food...

  • @thomasfplm
    @thomasfplm Місяць тому +5

    I think an interesting idea would be plantable infinite berry bushes.
    They would generate food slower than farms but wouldn't spend food.

    • @pattonramming1988
      @pattonramming1988 Місяць тому +1

      @@thomasfplm what if they also allow wild animals to respawn slowly

  • @alexmanzer5756
    @alexmanzer5756 Місяць тому +6

    I couldn’t see this as a one civ sort of bonus. Either it should be a scenario only addition or it becomes a generic building like the farm. It probably should cost a small amount of food to plant (to represent the use of seeds) and it could be fun to see different civ bonuses apply to it such as Burgundian vineyards applying to the berries instead of farms. The mill is a pretty empty building so additional techs could be added there for increased productivity and food starting amounts. It would have to be a completely separate and destroyable building from the forage bush.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +1

      Yeah, I didn't really cover the possibility of it being a universal thing, but that would definitely work. The Frank bonuses might need to be tweaked since then they would have both a bonus for (renewable) berries and for free farm upgrades, which might be too much.

  • @quasibrodo923
    @quasibrodo923 Місяць тому +11

    Instead what if planting berry bushes cost food? They’d still gather more slowly than farms, but they’d be advantageous if wood starts to run low.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +4

      That was a thought I had as well, but I think it ultimately hurts their viability because you have to recoup the food cost on top of their slower gather rate. So they could be good in low-wood lategames, but that's a fairly niche situation that IMO doesn't let the bonus reach its full potential. Whereas having a better wood to food conversion rate than farms would help them lategame and in most other situations.

    • @kevinabiwardani7550
      @kevinabiwardani7550 Місяць тому +3

      If it costs food, I'd suggest the bush grows very slowly. It will make a great high risk investment for later ages. Or giving it a Gold cost might suffice, but with faster growth time.

    • @quasibrodo923
      @quasibrodo923 Місяць тому

      @@AdmiralWololo I guess you framed your video more as an idea for a civ bonus. I was more in a general change mindset. Yeah, as a bonus my idea would be lame.

  • @afz902k
    @afz902k Місяць тому +6

    NICE I always wondered about the idea of renewable resources, like being able to plant trees and berries, or even breed animals that can later on be consumed.

  • @SteveNoBeard
    @SteveNoBeard Місяць тому +5

    Two words: Berry Quickwalls
    Interesting idea, I think it would fit well with a more nomadic/early agricultural civ. Could pair nicely with foragers require no drop off site

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      That is also a great pairing bonus since it means the actual gather rate will match the theoretical. But also I mention that at least here I've made the bushes destructible, as mentioned at 4:25, to limit cheese.

    • @SteveNoBeard
      @SteveNoBeard Місяць тому

      @@AdmiralWololo NO YOU MUST KEEP THE FROMAGE

  • @saffral
    @saffral Місяць тому +4

    I think the best benefit of berry building is the lack of balanced breakability.
    They're nigh-indestructable walls that need villagers to pass through and can only be cleared out slowly, not with specialised military. Imagine the power of berrying in your opponent's base or the opportunity to force the lategame in Black Forest. A whole new anti-berry counter would need to be provided to the other civilisations. Berry bears if you will, sturdy units (to deal with enemy archers on the other side), able to quickly and easily eat their way through berry bushes but at a drastically reduced resource harvested percentage relative to villagers as they eat most of the berries. Giving a unique unit to opponents would be quite a unique mechanic.
    I don't think having a cap on how many can be built would work, especially not having them take up population like a feitoria. That'd just be one more strike in favour of traditional farms.

  • @darshanvarier
    @darshanvarier Місяць тому +4

    Surprised nobody is mentioning this, but this would open up weird strategies like 18 pop infinite scouts (only takes 14 on food). At the start of the video, I thought this would be so broken that the wood cost would have to be higher than a farm. After all, I can plant one berry bush and gather from it with 3-4 villagers, which is not possible with farms. Food is the bottleneck to castle age.
    Imagine 20+1 castle drops on arena with a decent eco behind it, or 18+8 scouts into knights on Arabia. These strategies would have no counter....

  • @navinkumarpk86
    @navinkumarpk86 Місяць тому +3

    Hi Admiral, there are the mandarin orange bushes in the game made way back when they did a Chinese New Year special event. I use those as added items in my data mod so you can have more fruit variety in game. Give that a shot. I hope you can make Saffron Farms a new terrain/buildable farm. I wish the devs would add a few more variations to forage bushes like banana trees, apple/olive/pear/cherry trees, other kinds of berry bushes and olive/vine groves. If only modders could access their base graphic files pre-rendering to modify these.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      Yeah that would be really cool. People have been asking for graphics like this for years, so hopefully we get them soon.

  • @foxnyl4141
    @foxnyl4141 Місяць тому

    One could consider increasing the gather rate per age automatically, like the scout gets boosted when reaching feudal, or building hp changes, in order to neither change early game balance, nor make them fall behind too much buy late game. Or a cheap upgrade at the mill to improve them. I'd also enjoy the potantial to multiply sheep, cows etc.
    In the early version of the magyar(?) campaign we had something like this. Was a lot of fun to play.
    To prevent quick walling, just make it that the units can walk over the foundation, until building is completed or has reached a certain percentage. I know it would really screw up competitive play, but for single player and campaign purposes one could consider giving the different food sources (farms/berries) different stats depending on terrain and where the terrain is not suitable for either of those (eg snow, maybe desert), sheep, cattle etc might be the best call, being programmed independent of terrain. That would give each food source it's own time to shine.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      That could work, it just might be confusing since other resources don't automatically get gather rate upgrades by age. But I like the idea of mill techs affecting them also. Herdable animals are another interesting topic I'll cover before long.

  • @420CorruptedElement
    @420CorruptedElement Місяць тому +4

    Great video! Love your ideas!

  • @iwersonsch5131
    @iwersonsch5131 Місяць тому +3

    This would be very powerful on 36x36 maps

  • @snei76
    @snei76 Місяць тому +2

    Another great video, Admiral! I like this idea and would love to see it be implemented as a future civ bonus. It's innovative in terms of gameplay and it sounds fun to use.

  • @joaopedrocrestani1095
    @joaopedrocrestani1095 Місяць тому +1

    The amount of new content you are imagining for this already awesome game is incredible! Keep up with the great content, man!!

  • @the_SolLoser
    @the_SolLoser Місяць тому +1

    Ive always wanted plantable bushes. I think the Auto-Reseed in the Mill should work for both farms and orchards/bushes. No need for an extra button.
    Reforestation is also a good idea.

  • @etienne2315
    @etienne2315 Місяць тому +1

    Some regional variation of food both farms and berries could be a fun addition in the future.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      Yep, more ideas about these are cooking

  • @drz0b
    @drz0b Місяць тому +1

    I'd love to see a video on buildable bridges on shallow water and what affect that would have on maps with rivers and similar shallows. Also if possible, the ability for villagers to change elevation like digging a trench or building a mound.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      That's a popular concept for sure. Unfortunately there are some engine limitations that make it difficult to make bridges (there may be some workarounds though). AFAIK building or digging elevation is not currently possible in the engine.

  • @pandaprewmaster325
    @pandaprewmaster325 Місяць тому +2

    I think simply adding them the way they are is good enough they can be a early game food source when wood is mostly needed this can help archer civs who rely heavily on wood for production of archers and I think in a way its more fitting? Early on small tribes could sustain themselves with wild fruits and such but as the community grows you will need much more sustainable food source such as farms you can lock it behind a building for example the market to simulate how trade gives a certain civilisation things they didn't have in their land or you could make it region specific with civs that are most famous for fruits/berries I mean there is a lot of directions to take this bushes.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +1

      Agreed, it could be a (longer) transitional food source, but there's no reason that most or all civs couldn't have this.

    • @pandaprewmaster325
      @pandaprewmaster325 Місяць тому

      @@AdmiralWololo I dunno whats wrong with YT notifications but I didn't get this reply as a notification .... , anyway I do think the most who will benefit would be wood hungry civs and there is absolutely no reason to not have them be accessible by all but you could tinker around with it on how long does it take for X civ to get them while Y civ gets them earlier cuz Y civ lets say can afford hunting and having berries for extended periods of time allowing them a much more sustainable food source while if X civ does the same they won't be as good so having some civs with good food bonus early on only able to get berries once market is up is probably better.

  • @Exualy
    @Exualy Місяць тому +2

    Thanks for another banger video 😅

  • @papermaniac
    @papermaniac Місяць тому +3

    What about " mills and town centers spawn 2 bushes when built, farm upgrades improves bush gathering rate"?

  • @TuoDev
    @TuoDev Місяць тому +1

    Something to include next time would be simple graphs like SoL does to show how the ideas change the rates over time, such as the payback period for having a faster planting (when do farms overtake?) and comparing the 10% per age bonus. The hardest part of balance though is not the amounts but rather the quickwalling potential. I think you would have to have them made with no collision else the pro players would go absolutely crazy (even if you made them 1 HP, just imagine walling in opponent's buildings...)

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      Keep in mind that I have a fraction of 1% the audience of SoTL. It's hard enough to justify the effort I already put into these considering they usually get outperformed by MikeEmpires style or half-baked analysis videos that take something like 1/10th of the effort to make.
      But I agree that those are important reference points that would be worth bringing up if I do a follow-up. I've been considering making them passable as well, and that would probably be the best choice to avoid exploits.

    • @TuoDev
      @TuoDev Місяць тому

      @@AdmiralWololo Graphs can be fast to make look passable in Google Sheets. If you ever need help with them, let me know. I can even just send the graphs if you send me the data if that helps.

  • @whiteneanderthal1999
    @whiteneanderthal1999 Місяць тому +2

    berry bushes should be made a faster collection food ( almost as hunting or cattle), with regenerative food ( never ending source of food) while costing more then farms.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +1

      That's definitely one way to make it work

  • @Tucher97
    @Tucher97 17 днів тому

    Plantable berry bushes, an interesting thought that I think can work, it be like buying animals in AOE3, where you spend a cost of food or some resource, wait a bit for it to "become full".
    In this regard, maybe make it where you can't exactly plant berry bushes too close to farms.

  • @shaan4308
    @shaan4308 Місяць тому +2

    Ahoy Admiral, love your videos! I have been trying my hand at modding using the genie editor since a couple of weeks, just minor tweaks to unit stats here and there or adding some techs that I feel some civs would have had historically. Anyway now I want to make a mod that allows a dismounted Konnik to remount if its garrisoned in/close to a Castle, TC or a stable. How can this be done, any idea?

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      Hey, thanks! That particular ability would be pretty difficult and may not be possible with "standard" modding because of how hard-coded garrison and aura effects are right now. You probably know that you could set this up somewhat in a specific scenario though, or that you could make a unit that can switch between mounted and dismounted form.

  • @youcanthandlethetruth5433
    @youcanthandlethetruth5433 Місяць тому +2

    MORE INTERACTION MO MO MOARRRR

  • @flapjacki9579
    @flapjacki9579 Місяць тому +5

    What is a UA-cam algorithm?

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +6

      Nobody really knows, but if we keep on commenting, I'm sure we can figure it out together.

  • @jhonylg4045
    @jhonylg4045 Місяць тому +1

    About berry bushes i would ratter prefer that they respawn or have a periodicity to give food again. for me the orchards are more interesting!!

  • @MatheusAlves-nc6iz
    @MatheusAlves-nc6iz Місяць тому +1

    Imagine pro players quick walling with indestructible bushes 😂 but this is an easy fix and the concept of planting bushes is really cool!

  • @Septimus_ii
    @Septimus_ii Місяць тому +1

    It seems to be really hard to make them a viable and balanced alternative to farms whole remaining distinct. Your suggestion makes them slightly worse than farms, enough that I don't think anyone would choose them over farms, but their also not THAT different

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      It takes some work for sure, but there are clear advantages in space savings on some maps, as well as lower start-up costs. If the gather rate is too weak, the dropoff bonus could be improved to 12% per age.

  • @fulguratingbean9489
    @fulguratingbean9489 Місяць тому +2

    It's not a bad trade at all to make Berries more wood-efficient than farms given the slower gather cost.
    Would they have the Farm class though? Or do they have to be classified as Walls for mass placement?

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +1

      They initially would need the wall class for placement, but AFAIK could then be transferred into a farm class unit.

  • @Mini90140
    @Mini90140 Місяць тому +1

    Quick bushes walling enemy may be overpowered in this case 11

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +1

      Yes, I've made them destructible, as mentioned at 4:25, to limit cheese.

  • @heliosnovaspei4430
    @heliosnovaspei4430 Місяць тому +1

    If the option to plant berry bushes exist, then there should be the option to be able to attack them to clear them. The power of laming with them otherwhise is too strong as they will be better than palisades. Check on the player Biry for the type of laming i can imagine with it.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +1

      Yeah, I've made them destructible, as mentioned at 4:25, otherwise it could get too cheesy.

  • @nukesomething5518
    @nukesomething5518 Місяць тому +2

    they are far less space intensive then farms you could have a much safer food eco with berry bushs

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      Yep, that and multi-villager harvest are what can make them good, even if the gather rate is a bit slower.

  • @Progeusz-
    @Progeusz- Місяць тому +1

    When you pan over custom maps with all the bloom and moving units, it seems quite laggy. Was it an issue with PC/recording or is it YT acting up? I don't have any problems with other videos so it can't be on my side.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      It's a PC issue, all of my stuff is on the older side. For now I'll probably lower the settings a bit, but when the channel gets monetized, I can start to invest in a better setup.

    • @Progeusz-
      @Progeusz- Місяць тому

      @@AdmiralWololo I see. Good luck with growing!
      I'm mostly a silent lurker but I have watched a bunch of your videos and like how creative your ideas are.

  • @etienne2315
    @etienne2315 Місяць тому +1

    Fun idea they would need to have some HP though so they aren't the best walls in the game.

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      Right, I mention at 4:25 that these ones can be destroyed, but that's easy to miss

  • @wsk1124
    @wsk1124 Місяць тому +3

    Be sure to give a link of such mod if there is one

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      I haven't published it yet, but I will probably add it to the Road Builder mod when I do an update on that one soon.

  • @youcanthandlethetruth5433
    @youcanthandlethetruth5433 Місяць тому +1

    I LIKE AWESOMENESS AND WANT MO AWESOMENESS NIGA LES GOOOOOO

  • @coldestaqua
    @coldestaqua Місяць тому +2

    🎉

  • @kodacv1612
    @kodacv1612 Місяць тому +1

    liked for the gigachad meme

  • @AEGISAOE
    @AEGISAOE Місяць тому +2

    have u tried farmville aoe2 mod? u can plan all kind of plants there

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      I've never heard of that, but sounds interesting and possibly hilarious. Will definitely check it out!

  • @pattonramming1988
    @pattonramming1988 Місяць тому +1

    Why not have bushes produce a small amount of wood like a relic for wood

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      That's an option for sure, although at the moment that's basically the Portuguese berry bonus.

    • @pattonramming1988
      @pattonramming1988 Місяць тому

      @@AdmiralWololo their bushes regrow already?

  • @connormako1987
    @connormako1987 Місяць тому +1

    What if birds were huntable video please

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      Excellent idea, I love it. I'll put that on the list!

  • @mathhews95
    @mathhews95 Місяць тому

    Give this to the franks

  • @abdulwasilabib16
    @abdulwasilabib16 Місяць тому +3

    Damn why so less subscribers

    • @abdulwasilabib16
      @abdulwasilabib16 Місяць тому +1

      U shud be atleast have 100k + sub

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому

      UA-cam only promotes new creator content for a short time, so unless you're pumping out videos out every day, you won't usually get much exposure.

    • @abdulwasilabib16
      @abdulwasilabib16 Місяць тому +1

      ​@@AdmiralWololomaybe make some funny shorts bout aoe2 it might work

    • @abdulwasilabib16
      @abdulwasilabib16 Місяць тому +1

      Or some old videos but in short form

  • @ivan55599
    @ivan55599 Місяць тому

    At least bushes cannot be destroyed by enemies.

  • @radud8215
    @radud8215 Місяць тому +1

    Are your mods free on steam? They seem high effort and I want to try some of them

    • @AdmiralWololo
      @AdmiralWololo  Місяць тому +1

      The Roadbuilder mod is currently up, although it's a bit barebones (no unique graphics or tooltips), it's fully functional. I haven't uploaded any others yet, but I will probably be adding them to Roadbuilder (and updating it) when I get some more free time.

    • @radud8215
      @radud8215 Місяць тому

      @@AdmiralWololo ty I will check it out:)

  • @fritzfahrmann4730
    @fritzfahrmann4730 2 дні тому

    berry bush quick wall 😈

  • @giovannidabrosca212
    @giovannidabrosca212 Місяць тому

    What if instead there was a civ capable of planting trees? Maybe even without the need of drop off buildings. How much unbalanced would it be?

    • @AEGISAOE
      @AEGISAOE Місяць тому

      is already a full conversion aoe2 mod doing that

  • @hanslehnardt7230
    @hanslehnardt7230 Місяць тому +2

    for the algo

  • @vitoanania6042
    @vitoanania6042 12 днів тому

    up