Carbonated Water on Tap
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Getting carbonated water on tap is quite easy, using common beer kegging equipment, however, the final results can be unremarkable because these systems were just not designed to keep carbon dioxide in water at these higher pressures. It is probably one of the contributing factors to why soda fountains disappeared.
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Very curious to have your take on counterpressure filling.
Hope to have next video up soon !
All the parts are in so it should be soon.
@@Artofdrink I don't see it on your channel yet do you have this up yet?
Are you making the pressurized bottling video? Looking forward to it!
Have you viewed the Dave Arnold video on YT where he used an in-line water filter then chiller and then ran it thorugh a carbonator and then through the faucet? His video at the end did not show it screaming out of the tap. Is that because of length of line that he was using? I myself am hoping to get to a point where I do not have to shake my bottle every time I want a bottle of seltzer. I have considered running a CO2 tank to a soda stream to have hooked up, but the PSI would be a lot lower with those machines. I am really interested in this series and have been down this rabbit hole since 2020. That is how I found you and soda phosphate. Thank you for this channel!
Yes I have, and the reason for the flow control is that McCann carbonators only output water around 15 psi, but the pressure tank is set to around 100 psi to rapidly carbonate the water but the water is just tap water with air and not necessarily chilled. Plus, an engineered system is going to do a better job than mixing brewing and kegging parts, but the cost difference is probably 10x as much for the McCann system.
Thank you for your hard work and expertise. These carbonation videos are very informative and useful.
Thank you for this, and saving me from going down this road and being dissapointed.
Any recommendation on a specific counter pressure filler? I’ve been curious about the Tapcooler, but I haven’t found much info on folks using it for seltzer. Someone on Reddit said it was difficult to maintain the seal on the bottle at the 60 psi they were using. Hope to see the follow up video on bottling someday! 🙂
I got a soda siphon to make homemade soda for me awhile back. I got it because it was cheaper than getting a soda stream and the bigger tanks of Co2 they use. Especially for how often I use it, most times buying a 12 pack of plain seltzer cans will last me a couple of months depending on what I want to make, but the soda siphon gets me 1 liter of bubbly water with smaller Co2 cartridges that I can buy in bulk and have sitting around out of the way in a cabinet till I want to use one versus going to my local store and buying a $30 cylinder that will get used MAYBE 3 or so times a month if that and just sit around taking up counter space otherwise.
I get good results at 80 psi from a keg at 32f with a plastic CM Becker soda tap. With less thermal mass than the metal ones, it does not disturb the CO2 as much. I'm also using a PET plastic line with an inline flow control. I'll add some pics later. I should weigh the water to see how much gas is lost, but I haven't done that yet
can't wait till next video 🙏
Looking forward to the bottling video :)
我等待你的更新😂两周！这种吧台的控制器可以看到在苏打机器上，或者那种售卖汽水的店。我听说有个店一百年依然用这种工具来制作碳酸水来制造可口可乐。我见过印度街边的柠檬水摊位，小贩只是用一块布挡住出水口，来起到节流的作用，只是这样不好看或者看起来不卫生。我也想到过我的妈妈曾经用过类似的方法，让水不飞溅出来。但是食品安全问题，所以最好避免。（我这样认为）
生产旧苏打水臂的公司十年前就倒闭了，所以原始设备很难买到。但流量控制是好苏打水的关键。
@@Artofdrink 是的，在我的国家很少有人能真正的品味到手工制作的苏打水。大多数酒吧或饮品店使用的原料都被工业化的产品所取代。但是事实上，原始的配方才是最棒的。这种文化应该得到保护！
Have you used the Toki highball machines? They're plumbed and create a HYPER carbonated water. I'd be curious to know the differences between the two devices
I've looked at the videos and specs and the "hyper-carbonated" is only 1.5x normal carbonation (bar soda guns @ 15 psi) so roughly 20 to 25 psi. That is still a long way from the old soda fountains that were carbonating water to 150 to 180 psi. That doesn't mean 150 psi is better, as I'm discovering, but the Toki system is engineered to produce good carbonated water. You can see the flow rate is slow and steady, reducing the loss of CO2 gas. It looks good, but the price is probably much higher than the Frankenstein brew parts system that I'm working with, and the results are probably similar, though my experiments still need some tweaking.
@@Artofdrink I only brought it up because, in my experience, it produces a product with significantly more champagne bubbles than bottled/canned products. If I remember correctly, it was achieved in part by a reservoir that chills water to lower temps. Anyway, it’d be cool to peek under the hood of a toki highball machine to compare and contrast.
The flow control ball lock disconnect is cheaper than the inline regulator and less expensive overall if you need to buy a disconnect anyway. It looks like you have one on the table right there.
I have absolutely no problem with carbonated water on tap and it's frequently *way* more carbonated than what I buy in the store.
I've found the flow control ball-lock a little problematic at higher pressures (60 psi).
@@Artofdrink What if you force carbonate at 60psi for 3 days and then drop with your PRV at 10psi for serving? From my understanding, the headspace would show 10 psi on your regulator but your water would already be very carbonated right?
Do you carbonate at what pressure?
My carbonated water comes out of my McCann carbonator extremely bubbly, if tuned it more bubbly than a Can or Bottle. 🤷 Dunno what set up you have there for the Corny Keg, but I would try something else if your water is as Flat as that...
Thanks so mach! That all video of the channel has helped me a lot. Just looking forward for bottling video
A theory of mine is that all of these flow control methods disturb the carbonation too much at a single point, causing turbulence and loss of CO2. Another method that I think would be more subtle is using smaller inside diameter hoses. Thay way you wouldn't need a whole lot of hose and it would still be restrictive.
All theory though, do you think this could be a good solution?
Thanks
Addicted to this channel, quick question: Is it possible to counter pressure fill and bottle from a soda fountain & can I replace the faucets with Nukatap Faucets?
What about using a conical fermenter with carbonation stone through the bottom port?
I am curious to see this bottle setup. I want to setup my sodastream again but wife said not on my counter.
Just stumbled across this channel and I’m so glad I did!
Im a big soda nerd, I feel like so many of your videos are things I’ve directly looked into as well, we share some similar interests!
Definitely gained a new sub haven’t found a channel so well tailored to my interests in a while!
I don't know what you are doing wrong, but something. That tap is broken. Stop using it. It's not meant to do that. You are getting gas bubbles in the line probably caused by the regulator. It doesn't matter if you step it down to 20PSI first. When it hits the glass it's at 0PSI. It IS going to decarbonate.
60PSI is far, far, far too high. It's causing all your problems. Try half of that. Do not put ANY unnecessary restriction or regulator on the liquid line. It should be 30PSI in the keg, 30PSI in the line and 30PSI in the tap. Open the tap FULLY, WIDE open. Don't half open it, quarter open it, crack it or any of those things. They all create a low pressure, aggitation, degassing and foam. That's how a "basic" tap works. You pour FULLY open and then at the last second if you want a head on a beer you restrict the flow to create foam directly. (good taps have a push back for foam).
Water does not foam like soda or beer does. Not unless you do everything wrong like you are it seems. It only foams when you add the syrup. There is no "surfacant" in the water to foam. If it foams, something is wrong with it or it's not water. It will degass, but not foam.
I can easily pour 40PSI water at 5*C into a glass without any foam. Then I add and stir in syrup and there is always a "surge" of decarbing and a little foam, just like pouring it from a bottle.
If you add syrup to the keg. Then that's a whole different ball game. It will be very tricky to serve. Serving pressure will need to be down at 10-15PSI. However it probably won't remain as carbed as you would like at that PSI.
Thanks, Paul, but you are missing the point. If you read about old soda fountains, they carbonated water up to 180 psi (yes, 180), which is a tad dangerous. So, I'm trying to replicate something somewhere in the middle. It was described as being so pungent that it made your eyes water, so for historical reasons, attempting to go higher is the point.
@@Artofdrink Oh. Ok. I'd say it was a bit pointless as well.
At 20PSI it's fizzy, but not really, still drinkable bare. At 30-40PSI it's far too acidic to drink bare and consumer syrups need to go to high strength to defeat the sour. It's hard to think what PH it settles at after 180PSI carbing.
... and people worry about the phosphoric acid is coke.
The pH of carbonated water, even at really high pressures, does not go below 5 without the addition of an acid. Carbonic acid is a weak acid. This isn't about making boring, mainstream soda or beer; it's about understanding the history of the soda fountain. And just in case you don't know, I've written a book on the subject and spent 20 years writing about drinks, plus I'm a chemist.
@@Artofdrink But the title is just "Carbonated water on tap". So why don't you show how to actually serve carbonated water from a tap? I'm confused.
Because this is one of the four videos on the topic I've made so far, and the experimentation is on going.
I am curious where your recommendation ends up. I have a carbonator cap for sodastream bottles and use it to carbonate on demand and it takes about a minute for each 1L bottle which is fine but not super awesome. I had been mentally preparing for an investment to get it on tap :)
I've been keg carbonating for years after trying ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING. I concur with his conclusion that turbulence really limits your keg carbonation. I run about 25-30psi with a flow control tap, which is about as high as you can go out of the tap without CO2 coming out of solution, causing turbulence, and actually reducing your carbonation in the glass.
Currently my solution for higher carbonation levels is 1 liter screwtop soda bottles with those blue plastic beer store carbonator caps that take a ball lock gas fitting. Fill with cold, boiled water, squeeze the sides to eliminate the air headspace, then hook up to my 10lb CO2 bottle and shake. Definitely gets you to max carbonation.
Of course the reality is that even water at 0degC won't hold all the CO2 it does at 60psi once it hits atmospheric pressure, so there's just not that much discernible difference between 60psi carbonated water and 30psi.
Compared to your typical sparkling water, bottled San Pellegrino for instance, how would you say your tap compares on carbonation?
I've been a little discouraged with my corny keg at 50psi out of a party tap-carbonation-wise. I can get a fine pour with a little finesse on the tap, but it's pretty flat once out of the 5' line. I was thinking I need a higher PSI regulator to crank up the keg carbonation level (mine has a 50PSI safety valve). But maybe I just need to get after counter-pressure filling instead?
I'd love to hear your thoughts!
San Pellegrino is bottled around 12 to 15 psi I believe. And tap soda water is okay, but bottled is always going to be better and as @jhbange says, 30 psi kind of the sweet spot.
That's basically how I make carbonated water as well but I use 2L bottles and a 20lb tank. I also just fill the bottles a little less and top it off with syrup and flavoring then stick it in the fridge for craft sodas.
👍👍👍专业人士的视频！❤❤❤对苏打喷泉⛲文化复兴很有帮助！😊谢谢您所有的工作！
Hello sir may i ask can u use cmc in 4ph of water?
Having consumed at least 100 gallons of bar style club soda, I am genuinely curious if this has less impact when no syrup is used. Maybe i drink mine fast enough to not care. Next batch I'm boiling buffering and bottling. That's 2 more B's than I usually do. This is the first I've heard that you can run liquid through those regs, I mean I guess just water wouldn't be to bad.
Drink soda water quick was the way they described it in old books and people liked the pungent CO2 flavour. Boiling will make the biggest difference.
Hey mate I was wondering if you have done the video on how to bottle your 30 min carbonated water?
Not yet, need to replace my CO2 tank, valve stem has issues.
What would the comparison be with Soda-Stream-style carbonated water?
Soda stream is around 12 psi if done properly, fountains can go much higher but are definitely more complicated.
Great informative video! I do have a question though. Do you think having soda on tap is fine if the keg was pressurized to 25-30psi as opposed to the 60 psi you applied in this video?
Yes, a pressure between 15 psi and 30 psi will get the best results.
I imagine you might bring this up in the next or a future episode, but how does the carbonation level compare between different carbonation solutions? Say between a can, bottle, soda stream (or any similar product), a tap, and your next video about back pressurizing bottles at home if the goal is to get as many long lasting bubbles as possible?
I will talk about that in the next video but glass bottles can get the highest pressure, cans can go to 30 psi (limited by wall thickness of aluminium, and the cost of materials), plastic is a bit lower than cans. Almost all carbonated soda is between 15 and 30 psi. Carbonated wines, like champagne tend to be higher in the 45 to 60 psi range and that is where I'm taking this experiment.
Why does beer from a tap work perfectly fine but soda from a tap seems so difficult?
Beer uses much lower pressure, between 10 and 15 psi for most. Soda is 4x that much
What ended up happening? How was it with the counterpressure? Was it still less than desirable?
The last video is coming soon.
Interesting!
😍🥰我想知道，您有发布电子书的计划吗？🤣我觉得人们会买哪种在家自制精酿啤酒的书籍。😊也应该有人想要在家自己汽水。🥰谢谢您无私的分享
我做的这件事被称为“修理泵”，但更多地涉及苏打水的历史。bit.ly/44yZdez
@@Artofdrink 是的，谢谢你所做的一切，让我了解这些历史。非常感谢！了不起的工作！
You may want to see a recent SciShow video about why and how bubbles work in sparkling drinks. I would love to explain it, but their video is pretty short and they do a better job than i could.