In the old days of D&D, most adventures took place in dungeons and you used Fireball to clear a room and Lightning Bolt to clear a hallway. Today, unless you are doing a dungeon crawling campaign, the opportunity to line up enemies doesn’t occur as often and Lightning Bolt has lost a lot of its luster.
Multiple targets lined up is a tough one. If you don't mind me asking (also, thank you for reading this)... How would you try to make a[nother] lightning bolt spell that is balanced, yet viable/good enough to be a go-to spell? Would you keep the line? Make multiple bolts? Just boost the damage die or add more dice? I was thinking of something like: the spell would hit a single visible creature within range, but did 10d8 (dex save for 1/2) lightning damage. I'm not the most experienced at homebrewing, though. Any input/guidance is much appreciated.
I like the idea of Steal Defender, but I'm not sure it's executed well. I mean, it doesn't actually let you steal your enemy's defender(s). What a dud.
The Mobile feat though + booming blade at low levels makes a pretty nice build with the thunder gauntlets. And later dual wielder to proc more disadvantage while you run away like the courageous son a gun you are.
This is the quality content that I like! Everyone is surfing on the wave that is Tasha's, but Treantmonk is the one that gives us the crunchy breakdowns that I have been hoping for :) You already went over the Class Feature Variants UA but if you are planning to cover your thoughts on the changes to final versions that would be awesome!
I always get dazzled by how cool things sound on paper and that's why I rely so much on your advice. To help me see the practical side of things. That being said I am really hoping to see a few armorer builds. Can't wait!
One of Artificer's draws is the ability to help make builds more viable for the party. Bear totem barbarian? Half plate of psychic resistance. Playing a dex fighter who wants to wear plate mail (for some reason)? Ogre strength gloves.
Adamantine/Mizzium armor + Periapt of wound closure + warforged + Armorer makes a good tank. Nice buffs, endurance, utility spellcasting, emergency healing and hard to finish if you ever fall uncountious (20-30 AC, no breathing/food/water, regular attacks do 1 failed death save, death saves reset at the start of the turn). On a long rest can be reconfigured for stealth, damage or to be more unkillable(more AC, immunity to poison, immunity to magic missile...)
Well he got no more AC then other class because he can't infuse magic items. The level 20 of an artificer is less good then the level 6 of a Paladin (aura of courage)...
I'm going to be honest. I've heard several people talking about giving infusions to someone else and yeah you can do that but I'd like to see a subclass that's based around that. When you're talking about power level between classes all you're doing is lowering the power level of the artificer and raising the others higher if you hand out your infusions. That's fine if you want to be a background support character but the only subclass that's made for dedicated support is the alchemist
Extremely efficient casting tank with great spells for a tank and extremely useful with sentinel feature already at lvl 3 with the guardian armor. Sentinel and warcaster at 4 with variant human/tasha class with feat. I found shield to be redundant most of the time and have weaponized the reaction in other ways anyway making shield less important. Absorb elements is ideal tho and even adds slight bit of damage. Artificer armorer is best played as a supporting tank role and is pretty high tiered. Flash of genius, sentinel, warcaster, plate (infused) etc. Did someone mention blur or mirror image? fire shield? On a tank they give a great mileage and there are loads of extremely neat options here in both spell and infusion list that makes this a much more flexible tank than the common high-ac no spell caster tanks around. For a ranged variant you have to go sharpshooter. Great with breastplate & infiltrator armor for a pretty high ac ranged character. More flexible and supporting than the average ranger (non-UA). The on-hit effect is useful and needs to be taken into account for what you deliver to the party and you have much more interesting spells than a ranger or ranged rogue provides. My feeling is that people dismiss this subclass because they don't manage to break the dps game with this class. 3d6 builds simply cannot deal 1k nukes with a straight armorer. This class can heal, buff, debuff, control the battlefield, survive a lot of damage and impact with flash of genius bit like a divination wizard all while dealing atleast some damage. Incredibly useful in almost any party and brings a lot of relevant stuff to the table which also gives a lot of rp opportunities. The only bad thing about the class is that you are forced to specialize in one direction. You cannot really be very effective in both armors. Overall a super flexible subclass that perform and are great additions to almost any party and depending on group composition can be specialized towards ranged/support or tank/support. You will not be the action surge shadowblade gloomstalker but you will feel just fine since you do more than just rolling some damage dice.
I think it would depend on the party level and composition. At 6th level when this infusion is available a full caster will actually be able to cast and regain a 3rd level spell slot. Half casters, like the artificer, won’t get 3rd level spells until level 9. A 1/3 caster won’t get a 3rd level slot until level 13. An extra 3rd level slot at level 6 from a full caster is probably going to be more impactful than a extra 2nd level smite or a 2nd level hail of Thorns.
I liked it, didn't like that they lost shield from the UA. The extra infusions are probably the best part of the class, but the weapons aren't bad tbh. The infiltrator basically does a 2d6+int ranged, which is not bad at low levels.
As a DM I would absolutely allow magic armor to work with the 9th level ability, especially since I would generally be in control of how strong that armor is. I would feel like a terrible person if I dangled awesome magic armor in front of the subclass focused on armor and it turned off their best ability. The Infiltrator options are pretty nifty, since you can hold a shield AND something else while shooting lightning from your chest, so I definitely saw this as a "tanky archer", but the Artillerist is arguably better at that, so it's disappointing the Guardian isn't that good at melee. Would've been cool to have Arcane Weapon come back to assist here.
Th e Guardian armor leaves me thoroughly unimpressed. The Infiltrator armor, however, I see great potential in. Starting with a 16 dex and a 16 int is possible and viable now that Tasha's is out. Grabbing med armor master will allow that disadvantage to go away, leaving the advantage in place. Advantage on stealth, and advantage on thieves tools isn't the same as expertise, meaning that they'd stack if you dipped rogue. Built in ranged weapon, which qualifies for sneak attack, on that dip. I'm seeing the Infiltrator as the ideal mix with an AT rogue.
When you're *that* good at stealth, might as well go for Assassin. Advantage+Expertise on Stealth, combined with Expertise on both Theives' Tools and Disguise Kit, means that you'll be better at infiltration and ambushes than the base Assassin, allowing you to benefit from those surprise attack crits way more often.
@@ChristnThms my dms don’t hand it out, but I play d and d as if I am in swat team and I get surprise all the time cuz of that. I am like we stealth and shatter the door and tell everyone to get on the ground. The dm then goes “they are surprised.” No one plays assassin still
Arcane propulsion armor gives an artificer with extra attack the ability to switch out one of its attacking cantrips while maintaining a short ranged option. I believe it could have been buffed a bit, but I think it was also balanced against the armorers ability to have more infusions than other artificers so long as it’s a piece of its armor.
I’ve been playing a UA armorer maining the Guardian set up since pre-lockdown and I thought it fell between two stools for a while, not enough damage and not durable enough to tank, not enough spells to support casting. I took Magic Initiate Wizard for Find Familiar and Booming Blade and I think the only reason I survived so long was Shield and being a Goblin with the option to Disengage and kite enemies to trigger BB. Once I hit level 7 things changed though, I got Plate armor, infused to be resistant to poison, repulsion shield and radiant weapon. I’ve got a great AC, a variety of defence reactions from infusions and Flash of Genius really helps in and out of combat, it feels like playing an Intelligent Support Paladin almost. Now Tasha’s is out, I’m not sure whether my DM wants me to use the legit subclass, but I’m happy to stick with it, even without the Shield spell and limited Defensive Shield. It’s a very modular class, very adaptable and a lot of fun if you like having a lot of day to day variety within your options.
I don't know... 18AC HeavyA, +2 Shield, 3 from infusions that is 23AC on a Ranger, it feels kind of strong. Been fair, I am kind of glad he lost ShieldSpell. (Still got 3 infusion and some spells) that at lvl 10. At early stages: 16 + 2 + 1 = 19 AC as a ranger, with a weapon that deal close the same amount of damage of a LongBow.
Really disappointed in the armorer, especially since I am playing one right now and my build is now completely screwed. It makes no sense have tanking abilities on a d8 hit die character without providing appropriate tanking abilities. The nerf to the defensive field is devastating, and not having shield has made it so much more vulnerable. Absolutely perplexing to me that they felt they needed to nerf it like this while the twilight cleric gets to do far more than it, far more often.
Twilight cleric has what two combats a short at that point. That’s actually less than the armorer. Now I know most dms only run like 3 to 4 a session before a long rest, but the intended is 6 to 8 With three long rests. Either way in most games the twlihht cleric can only do it about half the the session. I think we need to keep that in mind when talking about the clssses. Unless you mean the fly ability which won’t always be useful.
It is difficult to say. With full plate and a shield (by level 5 at the latest), your AC should still be off the chain. There has to be a focus on Constitution next to intelligence to get it up to snuff, but with a +1 AC armor Infusion its even more difficult to hit you. Having access to Absorb Elements makes a huge difference in terms of magical damage avoidance. You should still (statistically) have access to at least one temp. HP buff every fight, with the added benfit of Booming Blade access for more control damage than before.
@@pranakhan I also want to add that Sanctuary seems to be overlooked by everyone here. You can attack twice (at 5th level) hitting at least one target and than cast Sanctuary on yourself, so they have to get past your spell DC or effectively waste an attack against you unless they can choose a target that they will then have Disadvantage against.
For ages I’ve had a really cool character concept where I wanted to play as a sentient magic item, and I thought this would be the best way to do it. Something like a sentient helm of Telepathy that got left in a dungeon for 100s of years and got bored, started using suggestion on rats and things to begin learning and experimenting, before finally being able to make itself a body. Unfortunately I just can’t see myself actually enjoying playing as an armorer.
@@M0ebius @ M0ebius Funniest shit I ever seen. For real though that's exactly the vibe I was going for. Starting out without even being able to move and getting to an epic fighting machine
TM, I know you arent big on reading UA, but I still would liek to share what has changed. Armorer spells included shield instead of thunderwave. And the Guardian armor's protective field was a bonus action instead of an action. Using your BA to grant you temp HP equal to your level in combat isnt htat strong, especially if you are in teh forefront. But by nerfing it into an action, this is useless in combat, and is delegated into a setup role. Id rather see a per long rest use limit in the BA version, then the action version. EDIT: I mixed something up, I was incorect about the protective field changes. I would still take level in temp HP as a BA, but limit the uses per long rest And the inflitrator suits "advantage on stealth" was a "this armor doesnt give you disadv on stealth"
Armor being removed against your will [along with all your other belongings] definitely came up for me in one classic D&D dungeon. -Went through the wrong portal -though it definitely wasn't the worst portal in that adventure.
@@poohbear01x48 I only recall the one naked portal but the other details sound like it. There was also a hallway of unavoidable darts and an efreeti fight.
The armorer works really well with with tempest cleric. Even just 3 levels of artificer works well. Once you get divine strike at level 11 you’ll do 1d8 from the gauntlets, 1d8 divine strike, 2d8 booming blade + mod. On a crit you use destructive wrath for 8d8+mod or 64 + mod. You also get access to consistent lightning damage if you go with the infiltrator armor which pairs really well with thunder bolt strike if you just want to move people around. You get access to the scag cantrips which are extremely helpful for a melee cleric - as well as shocking grasp (again synergizes with thunder bolt strike) and then lightning bolt - if you want to take 9-11 levels in artificer. If you do go 11/9 cleric - you’d still be a 15th level caster with 8th level slots so no slouch with spells either. Not to mention all the other goodies from both classes. The multiclass functions a lot like a sorcadin with smite-like abilities, spellcasting and 3 stats needed.
You can go Armorer 3 Hexblade 2 into Divine Soul/Clockwork Soul Sorcerer X for a similar concept. You lose the Divine Strike but you gain EB+Hex and BB into Quicken BB, as well as Charisma weapon attacks. You also lose Destructive Wrath but you gain Magic Missile + Hexblades Curse for nova. Spellcasting-wise DSS would play very similarly in-combat, whereas Clockwork go the Armor of Agathys + Bastion of Law route in melee and a more Wizardy control suite.
Armorer Thunder Gauntlets + Echo Knight Manifest Echo... DM needs to decide between attacking at disadvantage or taking opportunity attacks to get to the armorer.
I think the new “pass a concentration check automatically” infusion makes artificer an attractive dip for a Bladesinging wizard. Normally that subclass already gives many of the benefits you’d get from multiclassing into artificer, so it’s the one wizard I’d maybe not want to dip artificer on. However as a melee class (well usually) who uses their actions to attack, it’s super important to be able to hold concentration on buffing spells like haste or bonus action spells like animate objects or bigby’s hand. The probables with getting the infusion is that you need to go two levels deep to get it, and at that point a third level starts to look very very attractive because the battle smith subclass makes you much more SAD. And now that you’ve invested three levels why not get a fourth for the ASI. The problem is that if you’re gonna get 2 levels it feels like a slippery slope to getting 4, and at that point you’re seriously delaying your wizard progression so unless you’re focusing entirely on melee and are ignoring powerful late game spells, you kind of shoot yourself in the foot when everyone is level 20 and you only have 8th level spells. Also, I think you’re unfortunately right that the armored kinda stinks. I’d always disliked it for taking the place of archivist, which was my favorite subclass, but now I’m starting to realize that my dislike for it wasn’t entirely due to that bias.
A suggestion would be only taking 3 in artificer so that you don’t have to focus as much on dex and can instead double down on intelligence as the battlesmith and even armorer gets you attacks with the intelligence modifier (armorer only on its armor’s weapon attacks and battlesmith only on magic weapons). If you aren’t prioritizing dex and are using Tasha’s optional race rules nothing says you can’t go tortle to get that 17 starting AC. Only downside is that idk how being a tortle would work with the armorer since it’s a little unclear on how the armor from the subclass would work with the limitations of their bodies...but battlesmith would work fine I’ve also wondered how a loxodon would do, since their AC is con based, but the one thing is late game I think either way you’re AC might fall a bit behind since to my understanding you’d miss out on magical armor to give +1-3 on your armor. I think even if you are wearing armor with those modifiers you can only use those modifiers if you are taking your AC from the armor and not a different source, but I guess if you go battlesmith you can just hope your DM gives you bracers of defense if you’re worried about getting additional AC bonuses
I will also say I like the idea of the infiltrator model on a blade singer since with the blade singers extra attack you can cast a cantrip and then do the lightning launcher, so that’s neat
You can always beg your DM to get mithril heavy armor to negate the disadvantage on stealth if you go infiltrator. Or go medium armor master and get half-plate.
Thank you for covering my current character class & sub. Playing him through Descent into Avernus right now, and absolutely loving it. High quality art examples in here as well, thank you for your analysis
I can see the armorer guardian being useful in a War Wizard multiclass upping intelligence and spamming booming blade/green-flame blade and bonus action spells like flaming sphere or animate objects; or even a straight classed one (of small size) with the mounted combatant feat riding a Centaur Cavalier with Sentinel (basically giving one enemy disadvantage to attack everyone and enabling the Centaur to attack back every time an enemy tries to attack either of you). Aside from that, the infiltrator seems more viable.
This is the most disappointing part of Tasha's TBH. I was excited for it in UA. It seemed a little weak, but could have been buffed up. Instead, it got nerfed heavily and Twilight Domain became... what it is now. If nothing else, this is the proof Wizards balances their game with a dart board and a few beers rather than any actual math.
5 levels of Armorer plus 2 levels of War Magic Wizard gives you Shield and a reaction or a +2 to AC or +4 to saving throws. That helps a bit towards durability, plus grabbing Mind Sliver let's you dole out disadvantage to whoever you want.
Playing an armorer as my main character right now. It is a great support tank & crowd control with a little bit of multi classing (1 level of Peace Cleric plus 2 levels of war magic wizard & 6 levels of armorer artificer at the moment).
About Armor Modifications: I would have actually loved if they specified that if your armor is magical, only one of these pieces counts as magical for the purpose of Infusing your armor, it would have become so much cleaner
Pretty cool to see you talking about the Infiltrator armor, as I've seen so much discussion that immediately dismisses it to focus on Guardian armor. Some random tips to getting a damage infiltrator armor build: - For the Sharpshooter + Archery fighting style feat, if your race doesn't give you martial proficiency, you can get it by getting exposed/building/ect to Firearms. Artificer is automatically proficient with Firearms when exposed to them and they are all martial. - Level10 one-shot is juicy for the +2 weapon and armor infusion, I plan on donating some infusions to the party.
i love this subclass bcs now you can have a super AC. 18 (full armor plate) + 2 (enchanced defense) + 2 (shield) + 2 (enchanced defense) + 1 (ring of protection) + 1 (cloack of protection) --- you can have an AC of 26 if you take 6 levels into forge cleric and the pick the fighting initiate feat and choose the defense fighting style you can get an AC of 28 you can also pick a lot of other usefull feats, like shield master, heavy armor master, defensive duelist (add profiency bonus to AC as a reaction) and theres also the spells that you can use: sanctuary, shield, absorb elements, shield of fate, haste, protection from poision, protection from energy, stoneskin, etc. and the new spells are just even better, mirror image, fire shield, magic mislle, hypnotic patern, etc. this is my favorite artificer subclass
you cant stack 2 of the same infusions: "18 (full armor plate) + 2 (enchanced defense) + 2 (shield) + 2 (enchanced defense) + 1 (ring of protection) + 1 (cloack of protection) --- you can have an AC of 26" the enchanced defense is is aplied only once, so in this case you can make the repulsion shield instead for the +1
@@ricardogranelli and you cant stack forge cleric bonuses on artificer infusions either. They both make the item magical and therefore making it not applicable for the second bonus.
Playing one of these rn, and rolled really well on stats. Took that opportunity to multiclass into Tempest Cleric and it works REALLY well. BUT it needs that really good stat roll to even dream of working.
Currently playing one in "Dungeon of the mad mage" its a goblin with dextery as main stat, and i only use the infiltrator armor with a roguish playstile. So far so good, he gets adv on stealth and sleight of hand with the armor and one infusion, can hide as bonus action, has a good ac and some tricks with the infusions. Maybe lvl 6 its the sweet spot and from then its better to multiclass as a rogue, either assasin for the crit or the arcane trickster for extra sleight of hand uses via mage hand.
Chris, When it comes to the strict wording of Flash of Genius and similar "Add to a roll" abilities, I tend to focus on "When you [...] make(s) an ability check" and refer to page 175 of the Player's Handbook. I believe the strict wording of the text supports your position, as follows: "To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier." It then stops, and clarifies that "As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC." This means, strictly speaking, that there are two steps: Making the ability check, and comparing that check to the DC. I don't think anyone necessarily thinks of it that way in common usage, but that is what the text says. This means the 'default' case for "Add a bonus to [a target's] ability check" is to add it to the d20 roll BEFORE you compare it to the DC and, thus, before the result is known. That makes other abilities that interact with ability checks (and any other d20 roll, by implication) in a different way an exception to that rule, and for good reason; adding before you roll is weaker, and adding after you know the result is much stronger, so it makes good, common sense that the default rule would be the middle-ground option. In my mind, Flash of Genius is equivalent to the Bless spell for attack rolls, you're just applying the bonus for a single roll, and using a reaction instead of an action to apply it. I do believe that re-roll abilities, such as the Lucky feat and the Chronurgy Wizard's class features, or the spell Fortune's Favor, also fall in line with this interpretation, all taking place before or after an existing check is compared to the DC. tl;dr I agree, and I think the rules support your interpretation.
Three or four levels in Armorer sounds like a good choice for an INT-SAD Eldritch Knight intent on tanking, rather than dishing out a ton of damage. You'd get Shield back, at least!
Just one note on the Guardian's 15:th level feature... You have Lightning Lure and Thorn Whip on your spell list. If you need to pull someone closer to you, you already can, since level 1. Granted it's an Action instead of a Reaction, but still.
At 6:36 I would say that if you read the flash of genius description literally, that means that you take the reaction when a creature within 30 feet makes the roll. So I would say, RAW, that an artificer would have to add the bonus as/before the physical roll is made and before the actual value of the roll is determined. Though I feel that would go against the flavor text of the ability which seems to be the artificer reacting to someone failing the check and pulling out some gadget to help them.
I have already done two builds with the Armorer subclass, both are Multiclassed options. The Guardian uses 2 levels in the New Clockwork Soul Sorcerer so you can get Shield, spells, Armor of Agathys, and then using Shield when necessary. You use Greenflame blade for your main attack, because you’re going to use the Flames of Phelogos (I’m certain I’m misspelling it) feat. I think the main two things you missed for the Guardian are the Dual Wielder feat (this means 3 attacks at 5th level and when combining that with the Mobile fear I think you can make a highly functional character that can give disadvantage to multiple enemies) and the Sanctuary Spell. If you want to avoid being hit you hit them with your Gauntlets and then cast Sanctuary on yourself. They can either attack an ally with disadvantage or attack you and potentially fail to attack you before trying to hit your decently high AC. I also just realized that RAW you can benefit from the Dual Wielder feat and hold a Shield with this subclass. Kind of a weird thing but still. Because technically you are wielding two weapons simultaneously with both of your hands being gauntlets.
@@etherealhawk well your hands are the weapons but technically you have the weapons both equipped while holding the shield. It isn’t RAI but it is definitely RAW.
I'm most intrigued by the Infiltrator variant of the Armorer. As a principle Artificer, I could see a dip into Rogue pretty easily in order to pick up Arcane Trickster as a subclass. Since Artificers can work with illusions and enchantments fairly well, it seems like a natural slot-in. Additionally, the Lightning Launcher does qualify for sneak attack, which is always a boon. And that's not counting other Rogue benefits (Thieves' Cant, Cunning Action, etc.). On the other hand, the Fighter does add some stuff to the artificer too. Aside from Martial Weapon proficiency, the Fighter gets light armor, medium armor, shields, and simple weapon proficiencies -- all of which can be turned into extra tool proficiencies via TCoE. As for a subclass, the Eldritch Knight seems like a decent pickup for a reason that's similar in comparison to the Arcane Trickster, save for the fact that the focus is on Abjuration and Evocation spells. That all being said, I could also see just a 2 level dip into Wizard to pick up any one of the following schools: War Magic, Chronurgy, or Divination. EDIT: On further reflection for the Wizard, I think Chronurgy is probably the best fit for an m/c dip, as the comparison between Portent and Chronal Shift, while not negligible, is minimal at worst, in light of what the Divination subclass otherwise provides. (At worst, Chronal Shift eats the player's reaction as opposed to Portent, which consumes no action economy. On the other hand though, while Portent is great, it does come with a ribbon ability in Divination Savant, which is all but useless, as opposed to the Chronurgy subclass which gets Temporal Awareness.)
You could techically go Dex+Int and still take Sharpshooter. It’s an extra 1d6 of damage and you catch up in stats by spending one of the two extra Infusions to enhance the Launcher. It’s Lightning damage and Battle Smith has the golem to be a nuisance but Armorer has some nice features too
One thing we should note about the Armorer's special armor is that, if your DM uses the Encumbrance optional rules instead of simple carrying capacity (and I've known a few who do), then it's very easy to get screwed over by the simple WEIGHT of your armor even if you don't need to worry about its STR requirements. For example, in order to wear full plate armor (65 pounds) without taking at least a movement penalty, you'd need STR 13 under Encumbrance rules to avoid taking a movement penalty, and THAT'S if you carry NOTHING else, not even a weapon or a backpack. You'd need STR 14 just to carry a spear or even a dagger as well, and likely a 15 or 16 if you wanted to carry a shield and any kind of equipment. So the "you don't have to worry about STR requirements" rule for the Armorer can, depending on the campaign or DM, be kind of worthless. As far as multiclass options go, well ... I really don't like half-casters (paladins excluded, because so many of their spells are overpowered *cough*optimized*cough* for their levels), ;) so what *I* would do is take just enough levels in Artificer to get the armor I want (probably two levels, just so I can get some infusions and add a full caster level to my build) and then go with any of the Wizard builds. The best thing about the Artificer class, in my opinion, is that we FINALLY have a second intelligence-based character class, and one that can add significant benefits to a Wizard build. Frankly, I LOVE the idea of a Wizard in half-plate and shield with a couple of extra cantrips and proficiency with CON saves. But if I were going to go Armorer, I would absolutely stop at 4th level (so as not to miss out on any Ability Score Improvements) and then, as I said, continue with a Wizard subclass (I'm thinking War Wizard would work both thematically and mechanically, but I'm also fond of the Abjurer and the Diviner).
The lastest Sage Advice has a ruling on the timing of Flash of Genius. You use it after the roll but before the result is known. It baffles me that they didn't just put that in the text since they were doing an errata anyway, but there you go.
I've got this idea for a warforged armorer artificer whose body got blown up in the final days of the war. All that's left of him is a head, an arm, and half a spine, so he uses his armour as a sort of full-body prosthetic. Hoping to get my DM to have him confronted with guards who insist he can't wear his armour in the castle, or can't bring weapons into the pub so he can exhibit some of that in everyday scenarios :)
How does the ranged battlesmith outclass the ranged infiltrator so much? You can do 3d6+8+20 per turn with infiltrator at level 5. Battlesmith can do 2d10 +10+20. Seems like a pretty small margin. And thats using an infusion to be able to make 2 attacks with the heavy crossbow. You don't have to use any infusions to get your second attack and you get magical damage auto-attack as well.
The armor of magical strength can be very powerful with the bonus to strength checks and saving throws. While the second benefit requires you to use your reaction to prevent yourself from being probed, the first bullet does not. This means that it could potentially stack with your flash of genius feature, as well as your strength boosting infusions available later on.
I feel like level 9 is where the guardian armor becomes playable. You gain access to haste and can maintain concentration with your helm while in combat. You can then take 2 attacks and then booming blade each turn, and then bonus action disengage if you’re a goblin, or move if you took the mobile feat. At ninth level that works out to be (42) 6d8+15 thunder damage each round. Not necessarily the best damage, but the consistency is nice, plus you would have a minimum AC of 20 without any infusions. I personally might then take a 3 level dip into Eldritch Knight for action surge, shield and find familiar.
You can't cast spells or cantrips with Haste action. Only one attack, so you'll need to use Booming Blade instead of Extra Attack. So it would be only one attack plus Booming Blade OR three attacks.
An option I do think that's interesting for the armourer is trying to use the gauntlet's of Ogre power/Belt of hill giant's strength infusions. Considering you get two extra infusions at 9th level, I think using one infusion on one of these items might make for an effective build with something like GWM. Especially considering the 15th level guardian ability lets you make a weapon attack, so it can be a GWM'd greatsword. Also, the THP of the guardian is weak early, but does scale very well into the later levels. So at that point you can be decently tanky, have a good source of damage. At the same time you have the option to sacrifice damage to keep party members safe with the lightning gauntlets. I think you can definitely make this subclass work. Also, while I do agree that specialising in one set of armour over the other is the way to go. It's still good for a guardian-focussed armorer to have something like a breastplate handy to turn into infiltrator armour for when you do need stealth, notably group stealth. It won't be a great combat option, but it can be great utility out of combat in an area where other heavy armor users tend to drag the party down.
@@gamecavalier3230 Very true. But until that point you can at least get by with your intelligence + armor weaponry. You won't be too behind in damage until then. I don't think the damage gap is too bad early on. It also fits the fantasy of power armour enhancing your strength. Your primary concern is likely that you need to get martial weapon proficiency from another source. So either a race that gives it or a multiclass.
I did a solid "all arounder" artificer in a short Ravnica game. Goblin with Guardian Breastplate armor. Infusions for a repeater rifle and an elven cloak. Int>Dex>Con>Wis Good stealth and decent ranged attacks, solid melee opponent when poop hit the fan.
I'm going to play a multiclass rogue/armorer. Constant advantage on stealth and the lightning launcher works with sneak attack. Plus some spell utility and infusions. I don't know how viable it is but the idea is to make a high tech spy with gadgets. Should be fun at least
I'd add a feature to the Thunder Gauntlets that would temporarily siphon the defenses from the creature hit. They suffer a 1d4 penalty to AC, and the player gains that amount of AC until the start of their next turn. Call it Steal Defense or something. Alternatively, the Infiltrator could do something similar, where the player 'loans' 1d4 of their next stealth check and gives the bonus to a friendly's stealth check.
Here's an easy one that I won't do a build for because it's similar to my tanking build - but echo knight 3 with Guardian armor could be pretty effective I think
The Armorer build I’m currently considering is Armorer 3 Hexblade 2-5 into Clockwork Sorcery or Divine Soul X. It would be a charisma focused build. For defense you take heavy armor + shield (Enhanced Defense) + Shield spell + Shield of Faith and/or Armor of Agathys for defense. For offense you put Hex Warrior on the Thunder Gaunlet, take CrossbowExpert via VHuman, and use Eldritch Blast and Booming Blade in combat. Theme it as Ironman shooting beams from his hand and punching people with electrified fists. Alternatively you can take Lightning Launcher and Sharpshooter for decent damage with 300ft range, although it is a bit redundent with EB. As far as flavor goes, Clockwork Soul I think is a very natural fit with an Artificer. However Divine Soul is very wide open too, since you could easily themed the character as something like a mortal descendant of Mechanus. The Hexblade bit needs a bit more reflavoring, or if DM willing you can just make your patron Mechanus or your gauntlet/armor something crafted by Mechanus. Some tables reflavoring might not even be necessary. PS - By the way I understand if you think that 3 levels of Armorer does not an Armorer build make, I would say that 90% of the Armorer flavor comes in the first 3 levels, and those three levels are pretty relevant to the way the build would play.
Is it just me or does it seem like the 3rd level bonus spells for the Armourer and Artillerist are flipped. Like why does the Armorer, the subclass with abilities built around tanking not have the Shield spell, while Artillerist doesn't have Magic Missile. It basically feels like those two are the reverse of what they sould be
@@decobyjones9491 That was what I was thinking,it is now a top tier feat for gish caracters(martial and spellcasting), even more for Eldritch Knight,as fighter gets more attacks
There are two things about the Armorer you didn’t mention that I think are worth bringing up. 1) it’s unclear weather or not you can infuse the Armorer’s special weapons before level 9. The fact that the weapons are explicitly made a part of the armor and are pointed out as something you can infuse at level 9 implies to me you aren’t intended to infuse them before that point. If this is the case I’d say the Armorer is probably a little closer to the Alchemist than the Battlesmith since you sink an entire class feature into a set of weapons that don’t synergize with the rest of your class. 2 As nice as Armor Modifications is it’s not as valuable as a good feature you get at lower levels. A lot of campaigns end around levels 9-12 meaning there’s a good chance you’ll only have this feature for a tiny fraction of the campaign and you’ll spend most of your career relying on the subclass’s mediocre starting features.
Yeah the RAW isn’t crystal clear but my read of it is the gauntlet/launcher become a weapon as soon as you transform the armor into arcane armor. And assuming the armor itself is non-magical pre-transformation, then it should satisfy the infusion requirements.
IMHO - The way I read it, it's either Enhanced Defense or Enhanced weapon on the armor before 9th. For Infiltrator, I would go with the Enhanced Weapon, and switch it to Radiant Weapon at 6th and then go to town when I reached 9th.
Can you explain how defensive field isn’t a good option? While there are other options for temporary hit points, that doesn’t make defensive field bad. Defensive field is a bonus action to use, for starters, which means it can be used mid-combat. It also scales quadratically, as both proficiency bonus and class level scale with class level. Thus at level 20, this provides an extra 120 HP per day, even though at 5th level it would only give 15.
Guardian Armorer, with Winged Boots, Movement feat, and ability to self haste is more effective than the sum of it's parts. The ability to tag 3 targets (4 if you take the dual wielder feat), and retreat up to the relatively safety of the air can go a long way. You can improve this by using your spell storing item, with 10 charges of Web to reduce how many creatures can follow you up into the air (or knock them down). Finally, the 15th level ability gets more interesting when you use it while flying to add a bit of fall damage, but more importantly, leave them prone after their turn for a full combat round.
we found it goofy that the gauntlets didn't count as light, so we ruled that at our table and helps with the guardian 'drawing aggro' especially with the boots of the winding path.
Getting hex or hunters mark through a feat makes the damage pretty reasonable. At 5th you do two attacks at 1d8 and hunters mark does 1d6 twice. Plus int bonus. Then as a bonus the homunculus does 1d4 plus 3. All while giving disadvantage and having an AC around 20. The mind infusion keeps you from losing concentration on hunters mark. That’s averaging mid 20s damage per round.
Random extra note. At low levels, really even for a while. magic Stone cantrip pays dividends. INT ranged. And you can get aspects of the sharpshooter via Sling use. int to hit and damage still. WOrks with extra attack
The limb replacement is awesome for me purely for flavor reasons. I'm making a human Armorer Artificer named Yawgmoth; A simple tinkerer who dreams one night of a Machine God made of metal and gems, powered by lightning, who inspired him to become apart of something far greater than himself. He only heard one word on repeat; "Omnissiah." My DM thought the idea sounded fun, so she allowed it. Which is going to make for some hilarious encounters considering a good part of the campaign has to deal with Fae. 🤣😂🤣
I love that at 3rd level armourers get to give themselves 3 temp hp maybe 3-4 times per long rest while twilight clerics give themselves and all of their buddies d6+3 temp hp for a minute once per long rest (even if you only target yourself that's at minimum 30+10d6 temp HP). I know I can't just look at classes in a vacuum and that balance is a very situational thing but I marvel at the fact that this power disparity was allowed to exist and was put into print.
@@Cloud_Seeker These were released in the same book, power creep shouldn't be an issue here. As for feature creep, I can't agree more, although it does go against WotC's design philosophy of making the UA more powerful than the published content. Treantmonk's video on the clerics in Tasha's explains this pretty well and includes the clip of JC explaining why they do it.
I have played an armorer artificer and I am first and foremost a tank, but I also am utility. My DM gave me a special tanking ability (considering the ranger had as much health as me), and I have a good Con. As of writing this comment, I am 10th level and made a cloak of protection so now I have +9 to Con; I can’t fail concentration checks if I take less than 22 damage. I basically have an Iron Man style suit and jokes have been made about changing my character’s last name to Stark, especially since I can now fly. I have 21 AC base (plate + shield + cloak) and can get 23 AC from Haste
Artificers with infused weapon, or paladins/clerics with his holy symbol in shield, may use spells when this weapon/shield is in one hand, and the other hand isn't free Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell. If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell." A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."
I love this subclass and it's purely for that level 9 ability. Having 2 extra infusions just adds so much versatility. You can have your main set of 2-3 items (e.g., maybe shield, armor, weapon, or something like the spell refueling) and then pick-up 2 based on what you need in the day ahead. Maybe a wand of secrets if you're breaking into a lab? Maybe dimensional shackles (fun with an Enchanter dip)? Maybe Mind Sharpener for that spell that needs to really stick for your plan to work. Or a homunculus that you can pass magic stones too for a decent BA attack with a 60' range! Belts of Giant Strength are also super useful. I gave one to my Flying Monkey Familiar so it could fly me and friends around.
The homunculus takes the dodge action unless commanded with a bonus action. Magic stones use your bonus action to create, you can only have one active, and deal 1d6+INT damage which would deal an average of 3.5+5=8.5 DPR, so if you're alternating bonus actions, you're actually dealing 4.25 DPR on average. Your homunculus deals 1d4+PB damage all on its own. Even at level 2, that averages to 2.5+2=4.5, and it only improves as you level up.
Well you can use the guardian armor for battle but have a separate armor for stealthing. That avoids the meme where the paladin is clanking around while the rogue is stealthing
Can a Spell-refueling ring @12:30 be handed off to a full caster? The prerequisite is "6th-level artificer", and while that could be there to prevent multi-classed artificers from making it too early, it looks like the requirements for magical items as found in in the DMG.
Thanks for the video Chris! I liked this subclass for the artificer 😎 I think it could be pretty cool ranged option if you pick up the hex/hunters mark from the feat or multiclass 🤔
The key to switch between armor models is to go dex 16 and take medium armor master, your armorer wil end up with the same AC as in full plate and it will cancel disadvantage on stealth rolls at the same time.
The lightning launcher isn't too bad. Its essentially a Greatsword with GWM if you take sharpshooter for your first attack, with the second attack being a longsword with GWM. You just don't get the crossbow expert feat stuff, but comparing it to your melee fighters its not too bad. (And at 15, its essentially a Greatsword at ranged.) Your essentially a ranger in plate with enough abilities to possibly get to 35 AC or higher. And its a one handed attack, so you can use a shield, AND I believe the lightning launcher can also be used for somatic components because its like Iron Man's hand blaster things, so that is just nice. With how high your AC is with armorer, you kinda shrug off opportunity attacks, so lacking that feature of Xbow expert isn't that bad either.
The launcher doesn’t require any hand, can stay on your chest and can shoot. You can use an hand cross bow, shot two times with the bonus action and use the second attack for a third 2d6 thunder attack.
I have an armorer I really like. Typical infiltrator with sharpshooter. Currently sitting on a 23 AC at level 12. I have given my rogue/ranger a repeating +1 bow that has been essential and my paladin the radiant weapon. Without my help I don't think they would have had magic weapons until maybe level 10. This has been a hug boon to the party. Additionally, I am fairly consistently dealing 20-30 damage a turn. On top of all of that I happen to be the best caster in our party (the Bard never shows) so I often have all of the toolbox support stuff needed. Also, I think shield would be a little OP if given to this class. Especially for the Guardian. I can see lines where you could create a great tank with this class. I do agree the 15th level guardian ability should be less restrictive, I think it would be really cool if it had unlimited uses and likely not OP.
I think the artificer should also have an equivalent to the Armor of Magical Strength, but for Dexterity saves and checks (shouldn’t be that problematic, right?).
Taking a shield, heavy armor, and all the defensive infusions leaves you with a 25 ac with resistance to force damage and straight up immunity to magic missile I don't think they quite need the spell shield
I just built one for a onehot an gave it some thought. I think you misunderstand thinking this is for ranged/melee flexibility. he can only switch on a long rest after all - that is not exactly flexible. But he is a heavy tank & battlefield control & utility character who can also sneak in heavy armor.
one thing you could do for the guardian build is take booming blade either with a multiclass or by taking a feat. with the rules as written, you make your armor a weapon and your armor has a cost to it so I think booming blade would work with the materiel prerequisite. it gives a decent boost with your damage
@@thecharmer5981 oh it is? oh it is! I must have missed that lol. I do still feeling like the damage boost from this cantrip is good for this sub class though
You can combine abjuration wizard shield spell hp with temp hp. Not to bad on that part. One is a magical shield that comes out every time you perform a abjuration spell. The other is temp hp. Nice combo of needed.
what about some 3 levels dip in armorer on a base of tempest cleric? the infiltrator model could be a sort of repelling blast mover, and you'd be a cleric
I would really like to see a Character build who throws stuff from you Would you need to go with darts, so one can use the sharpshooter feat. What about multiclassing? (or which class in general for that matter, probably fighter but with the fighting initiate feat it can work on others too). Thoughts?
Consider, you can use the extra infusions to make room for Gauntlets of Ogres Strength or Belt of Hill Giant Strength, maybe a +2 greatsword and +2 plate armor, and turn into a melee thug even with infiltrator armor.
After level 10 and level 14 yes. Problem is that most campaigns does not go that high. So what exactly is your build going to be before that point? I am not going to make a build based on what I get at level 10 or level 14. Any character is powerful at that point.
I know this is an older video, but maybe someone sees my comment and can give advice. I just started a campaign with an (Armorer) Artificer and wonder if multiclassing would be a good or bad option, especially considering an improvement in damage. I am thinking about either 2-3 levels in Ranger (Archery Fighting Style and Hunters Mark), 1-3 levels in Fighter (Second Wind, Action Surge and maybe choosing Psi Warrior, Eldritch Knight or Battlemaster), 1-3 level in Rogue for Expertise and Sneak Attack or maybe even a single level (or two) in War Cleric (Cantrips, Spells and Martial Weapon Proficiency to later take the feat Fighting Initiate to get the Archery fighting style). I already have Sharpshooter because we got a free feat at the start. Any advice would be great (we are planning on playing until lvl 20).
I’m making an armorer artificer based entirely off Viktor from Arcane. Except now they have a mech semi-suit, where I’d want to treat it more like something my character sits in rather than a literal suit of armor. The only problem is that this characters strength is a 5, and that means plate armor + a bag of holding is their max carrying capacity… so unless a DM is willing to let me ignore the carry weight of the armor (since they technically won’t be carrying it…?) then the build fails. Rest in piece nerd. :(
Part of the reason they didn’t get a optional feature is probably because they already are able to retrain a cantrip every level which is more than every class except wizard.
You need to understand the extra survivability. When the steel defender dodges when you do spells with more damage, all enemies get disadvantage on attacks against it. That being said it has the reaction to deflect and stops you from being hit and it has a much higher chance not to be hit due to dodges disadvantage. So the enemy wastes an action miss both of you.
In the old days of D&D, most adventures took place in dungeons and you used Fireball to clear a room and Lightning Bolt to clear a hallway. Today, unless you are doing a dungeon crawling campaign, the opportunity to line up enemies doesn’t occur as often and Lightning Bolt has lost a lot of its luster.
Multiple targets lined up is a tough one. If you don't mind me asking (also, thank you for reading this)...
How would you try to make a[nother] lightning bolt spell that is balanced, yet viable/good enough to be a go-to spell?
Would you keep the line? Make multiple bolts? Just boost the damage die or add more dice?
I was thinking of something like: the spell would hit a single visible creature within range, but did 10d8 (dex save for 1/2) lightning damage.
I'm not the most experienced at homebrewing, though. Any input/guidance is much appreciated.
@@sharkforce8147
That sounds like an entirely different spell. I wonder if it is, technically, another spell...
Maybe change the mechanics; change it to a Chain Lightning effect that hits fewer targets than the average Fireball, but packs more punch.
I just wish lightning bolt was 10 feet wide instead of 5 feet.
I like the idea of Steal Defender, but I'm not sure it's executed well. I mean, it doesn't actually let you steal your enemy's defender(s). What a dud.
🤣
False advertising!
@@gamecavalier3230 ikr? That's the biggest rip-off in the system.
I had the same feeling twoards the turn undead spell. It neither turns people into undead nor does it rotate undead creatures around.
@@godofzombi Total rip-off of a spell.
The "ironman style" helmet pullback allows you to wear a different helmet and infuse it before you reach 9th level.
*opens helmet to reveal other helmet*
@@TheOnlyPedroGameplays Kind of a hat on a hat, don't you think?
mechanism work backwards and flip down into a faceplate
The Mobile feat though + booming blade at low levels makes a pretty nice build with the thunder gauntlets. And later dual wielder to proc more disadvantage while you run away like the courageous son a gun you are.
This is the quality content that I like! Everyone is surfing on the wave that is Tasha's, but Treantmonk is the one that gives us the crunchy breakdowns that I have been hoping for :)
You already went over the Class Feature Variants UA but if you are planning to cover your thoughts on the changes to final versions that would be awesome!
As I go through the subclasses, I will comment on the class variants for that class.
I always get dazzled by how cool things sound on paper and that's why I rely so much on your advice. To help me see the practical side of things.
That being said I am really hoping to see a few armorer builds. Can't wait!
One of Artificer's draws is the ability to help make builds more viable for the party. Bear totem barbarian? Half plate of psychic resistance. Playing a dex fighter who wants to wear plate mail (for some reason)? Ogre strength gloves.
Adamantine/Mizzium armor + Periapt of wound closure + warforged + Armorer makes a good tank. Nice buffs, endurance, utility spellcasting, emergency healing and hard to finish if you ever fall uncountious (20-30 AC, no breathing/food/water, regular attacks do 1 failed death save, death saves reset at the start of the turn). On a long rest can be reconfigured for stealth, damage or to be more unkillable(more AC, immunity to poison, immunity to magic missile...)
Well he got no more AC then other class because he can't infuse magic items. The level 20 of an artificer is less good then the level 6 of a Paladin (aura of courage)...
I'm going to be honest. I've heard several people talking about giving infusions to someone else and yeah you can do that but I'd like to see a subclass that's based around that. When you're talking about power level between classes all you're doing is lowering the power level of the artificer and raising the others higher if you hand out your infusions. That's fine if you want to be a background support character but the only subclass that's made for dedicated support is the alchemist
As I'm building out an armourer this gets posted, I am grateful
Extremely efficient casting tank with great spells for a tank and extremely useful with sentinel feature already at lvl 3 with the guardian armor. Sentinel and warcaster at 4 with variant human/tasha class with feat. I found shield to be redundant most of the time and have weaponized the reaction in other ways anyway making shield less important. Absorb elements is ideal tho and even adds slight bit of damage.
Artificer armorer is best played as a supporting tank role and is pretty high tiered. Flash of genius, sentinel, warcaster, plate (infused) etc. Did someone mention blur or mirror image? fire shield? On a tank they give a great mileage and there are loads of extremely neat options here in both spell and infusion list that makes this a much more flexible tank than the common high-ac no spell caster tanks around.
For a ranged variant you have to go sharpshooter. Great with breastplate & infiltrator armor for a pretty high ac ranged character. More flexible and supporting than the average ranger (non-UA). The on-hit effect is useful and needs to be taken into account for what you deliver to the party and you have much more interesting spells than a ranger or ranged rogue provides.
My feeling is that people dismiss this subclass because they don't manage to break the dps game with this class. 3d6 builds simply cannot deal 1k nukes with a straight armorer.
This class can heal, buff, debuff, control the battlefield, survive a lot of damage and impact with flash of genius bit like a divination wizard all while dealing atleast some damage. Incredibly useful in almost any party and brings a lot of relevant stuff to the table which also gives a lot of rp opportunities.
The only bad thing about the class is that you are forced to specialize in one direction. You cannot really be very effective in both armors. Overall a super flexible subclass that perform and are great additions to almost any party and depending on group composition can be specialized towards ranged/support or tank/support. You will not be the action surge shadowblade gloomstalker but you will feel just fine since you do more than just rolling some damage dice.
I wouldn't hand the Spell Refueling ring off to a full caster. IMO it's better for 1/2 or 1/3 casters, because they have fewer spell slots.
warlocks?
I think it would depend on the party level and composition. At 6th level when this infusion is available a full caster will actually be able to cast and regain a 3rd level spell slot.
Half casters, like the artificer, won’t get 3rd level spells until level 9.
A 1/3 caster won’t get a 3rd level slot until level 13.
An extra 3rd level slot at level 6 from a full caster is probably going to be more impactful than a extra 2nd level smite or a 2nd level hail of Thorns.
@@thecursed01 alas, as soon as warlocks get 4th level spells, ring won't work.
That's exactly what Trentmonk said. Give it to full spellcaster before others get their 3lvl spellslot.
@@ParaisoFlower why wouldn’t the ring work?
I liked it, didn't like that they lost shield from the UA. The extra infusions are probably the best part of the class, but the weapons aren't bad tbh. The infiltrator basically does a 2d6+int ranged, which is not bad at low levels.
As a DM I would absolutely allow magic armor to work with the 9th level ability, especially since I would generally be in control of how strong that armor is. I would feel like a terrible person if I dangled awesome magic armor in front of the subclass focused on armor and it turned off their best ability.
The Infiltrator options are pretty nifty, since you can hold a shield AND something else while shooting lightning from your chest, so I definitely saw this as a "tanky archer", but the Artillerist is arguably better at that, so it's disappointing the Guardian isn't that good at melee. Would've been cool to have Arcane Weapon come back to assist here.
Th e Guardian armor leaves me thoroughly unimpressed.
The Infiltrator armor, however, I see great potential in. Starting with a 16 dex and a 16 int is possible and viable now that Tasha's is out. Grabbing med armor master will allow that disadvantage to go away, leaving the advantage in place.
Advantage on stealth, and advantage on thieves tools isn't the same as expertise, meaning that they'd stack if you dipped rogue.
Built in ranged weapon, which qualifies for sneak attack, on that dip.
I'm seeing the Infiltrator as the ideal mix with an AT rogue.
Artificers automatically get expertise in all tools @ 3.
When you're *that* good at stealth, might as well go for Assassin. Advantage+Expertise on Stealth, combined with Expertise on both Theives' Tools and Disguise Kit, means that you'll be better at infiltration and ambushes than the base Assassin, allowing you to benefit from those surprise attack crits way more often.
@@normal6483 nobody goes for Assassin, unless they don't know the rules on surprise, or they know the DM will hand it to them on a platter.
@@ChristnThms my dms don’t hand it out, but I play d and d as if I am in swat team and I get surprise all the time cuz of that. I am like we stealth and shatter the door and tell everyone to get on the ground. The dm then goes “they are surprised.”
No one plays assassin still
@@conradkorbol good for you. That's pretty much a perfect description of the DM just handing it out.
Arcane propulsion armor gives an artificer with extra attack the ability to switch out one of its attacking cantrips while maintaining a short ranged option. I believe it could have been buffed a bit, but I think it was also balanced against the armorers ability to have more infusions than other artificers so long as it’s a piece of its armor.
I’ve been playing a UA armorer maining the Guardian set up since pre-lockdown and I thought it fell between two stools for a while, not enough damage and not durable enough to tank, not enough spells to support casting.
I took Magic Initiate Wizard for Find Familiar and Booming Blade and I think the only reason I survived so long was Shield and being a Goblin with the option to Disengage and kite enemies to trigger BB.
Once I hit level 7 things changed though, I got Plate armor, infused to be resistant to poison, repulsion shield and radiant weapon. I’ve got a great AC, a variety of defence reactions from infusions and Flash of Genius really helps in and out of combat, it feels like playing an Intelligent Support Paladin almost. Now Tasha’s is out, I’m not sure whether my DM wants me to use the legit subclass, but I’m happy to stick with it, even without the Shield spell and limited Defensive Shield. It’s a very modular class, very adaptable and a lot of fun if you like having a lot of day to day variety within your options.
I don't know...
18AC HeavyA, +2 Shield, 3 from infusions that is 23AC on a Ranger, it feels kind of strong. Been fair, I am kind of glad he lost ShieldSpell.
(Still got 3 infusion and some spells) that at lvl 10.
At early stages: 16 + 2 + 1 = 19 AC as a ranger, with a weapon that deal close the same amount of damage of a LongBow.
Really disappointed in the armorer, especially since I am playing one right now and my build is now completely screwed. It makes no sense have tanking abilities on a d8 hit die character without providing appropriate tanking abilities. The nerf to the defensive field is devastating, and not having shield has made it so much more vulnerable. Absolutely perplexing to me that they felt they needed to nerf it like this while the twilight cleric gets to do far more than it, far more often.
I feel you on defensive field and shield. This subclass could have afforded the loss of ONE of those... not both.
Twilight cleric has what two combats a short at that point. That’s actually less than the armorer. Now I know most dms only run like 3 to 4 a session before a long rest, but the intended is 6 to 8
With three long rests. Either way in most games the twlihht cleric can only do it about half the the session. I think we need to keep that in mind when talking about the clssses. Unless you mean the fly ability which won’t always be useful.
@@conradkorbol I’m going to point out that two Combats a short rest on a 2 Short rest minimum day means 6 combats a day out of the 8.
It is difficult to say. With full plate and a shield (by level 5 at the latest), your AC should still be off the chain. There has to be a focus on Constitution next to intelligence to get it up to snuff, but with a +1 AC armor Infusion its even more difficult to hit you. Having access to Absorb Elements makes a huge difference in terms of magical damage avoidance. You should still (statistically) have access to at least one temp. HP buff every fight, with the added benfit of Booming Blade access for more control damage than before.
@@pranakhan I also want to add that Sanctuary seems to be overlooked by everyone here. You can attack twice (at 5th level) hitting at least one target and than cast Sanctuary on yourself, so they have to get past your spell DC or effectively waste an attack against you unless they can choose a target that they will then have Disadvantage against.
For ages I’ve had a really cool character concept where I wanted to play as a sentient magic item, and I thought this would be the best way to do it. Something like a sentient helm of Telepathy that got left in a dungeon for 100s of years and got bored, started using suggestion on rats and things to begin learning and experimenting, before finally being able to make itself a body. Unfortunately I just can’t see myself actually enjoying playing as an armorer.
That reminds me of the Pickle Rick episode of Rick & Morty.
@@M0ebius @ M0ebius Funniest shit I ever seen.
For real though that's exactly the vibe I was going for. Starting out without even being able to move and getting to an epic fighting machine
TM, I know you arent big on reading UA, but I still would liek to share what has changed.
Armorer spells included shield instead of thunderwave.
And the Guardian armor's protective field was a bonus action instead of an action. Using your BA to grant you temp HP equal to your level in combat isnt htat strong, especially if you are in teh forefront. But by nerfing it into an action, this is useless in combat, and is delegated into a setup role.
Id rather see a per long rest use limit in the BA version, then the action version.
EDIT: I mixed something up, I was incorect about the protective field changes. I would still take level in temp HP as a BA, but limit the uses per long rest
And the inflitrator suits "advantage on stealth" was a "this armor doesnt give you disadv on stealth"
Armor being removed against your will [along with all your other belongings] definitely came up for me in one classic D&D dungeon. -Went through the wrong portal -though it definitely wasn't the worst portal in that adventure.
I wonder - was it the one where literally everything teleports you naked if you don’t do just the right thing?
All to fight some mummy/Lich…
@@poohbear01x48 I only recall the one naked portal but the other details sound like it. There was also a hallway of unavoidable darts and an efreeti fight.
The armorer works really well with with tempest cleric. Even just 3 levels of artificer works well. Once you get divine strike at level 11 you’ll do 1d8 from the gauntlets, 1d8 divine strike, 2d8 booming blade + mod.
On a crit you use destructive wrath for 8d8+mod or 64 + mod.
You also get access to consistent lightning damage if you go with the infiltrator armor which pairs really well with thunder bolt strike if you just want to move people around.
You get access to the scag cantrips which are extremely helpful for a melee cleric - as well as shocking grasp (again synergizes with thunder bolt strike) and then lightning bolt - if you want to take 9-11 levels in artificer.
If you do go 11/9 cleric - you’d still be a 15th level caster with 8th level slots so no slouch with spells either.
Not to mention all the other goodies from both classes.
The multiclass functions a lot like a sorcadin with smite-like abilities, spellcasting and 3 stats needed.
You can go Armorer 3 Hexblade 2 into Divine Soul/Clockwork Soul Sorcerer X for a similar concept. You lose the Divine Strike but you gain EB+Hex and BB into Quicken BB, as well as Charisma weapon attacks. You also lose Destructive Wrath but you gain Magic Missile + Hexblades Curse for nova. Spellcasting-wise DSS would play very similarly in-combat, whereas Clockwork go the Armor of Agathys + Bastion of Law route in melee and a more Wizardy control suite.
Armorer Thunder Gauntlets + Echo Knight Manifest Echo... DM needs to decide between attacking at disadvantage or taking opportunity attacks to get to the armorer.
I think the new “pass a concentration check automatically” infusion makes artificer an attractive dip for a Bladesinging wizard. Normally that subclass already gives many of the benefits you’d get from multiclassing into artificer, so it’s the one wizard I’d maybe not want to dip artificer on. However as a melee class (well usually) who uses their actions to attack, it’s super important to be able to hold concentration on buffing spells like haste or bonus action spells like animate objects or bigby’s hand. The probables with getting the infusion is that you need to go two levels deep to get it, and at that point a third level starts to look very very attractive because the battle smith subclass makes you much more SAD. And now that you’ve invested three levels why not get a fourth for the ASI. The problem is that if you’re gonna get 2 levels it feels like a slippery slope to getting 4, and at that point you’re seriously delaying your wizard progression so unless you’re focusing entirely on melee and are ignoring powerful late game spells, you kind of shoot yourself in the foot when everyone is level 20 and you only have 8th level spells.
Also, I think you’re unfortunately right that the armored kinda stinks. I’d always disliked it for taking the place of archivist, which was my favorite subclass, but now I’m starting to realize that my dislike for it wasn’t entirely due to that bias.
A suggestion would be only taking 3 in artificer so that you don’t have to focus as much on dex and can instead double down on intelligence as the battlesmith and even armorer gets you attacks with the intelligence modifier (armorer only on its armor’s weapon attacks and battlesmith only on magic weapons). If you aren’t prioritizing dex and are using Tasha’s optional race rules nothing says you can’t go tortle to get that 17 starting AC. Only downside is that idk how being a tortle would work with the armorer since it’s a little unclear on how the armor from the subclass would work with the limitations of their bodies...but battlesmith would work fine
I’ve also wondered how a loxodon would do, since their AC is con based, but the one thing is late game I think either way you’re AC might fall a bit behind since to my understanding you’d miss out on magical armor to give +1-3 on your armor. I think even if you are wearing armor with those modifiers you can only use those modifiers if you are taking your AC from the armor and not a different source, but I guess if you go battlesmith you can just hope your DM gives you bracers of defense if you’re worried about getting additional AC bonuses
Why am I not seeing this infusion?
@@AllThingsFascinate I believe he’s talking about the mind sharpener infusion
I will also say I like the idea of the infiltrator model on a blade singer since with the blade singers extra attack you can cast a cantrip and then do the lightning launcher, so that’s neat
@@HybridHerps I believe the Blade Song feature still limits you to light armor.
You can always beg your DM to get mithril heavy armor to negate the disadvantage on stealth if you go infiltrator. Or go medium armor master and get half-plate.
Thank you for covering my current character class & sub. Playing him through Descent into Avernus right now, and absolutely loving it. High quality art examples in here as well, thank you for your analysis
I can see the armorer guardian being useful in a War Wizard multiclass upping intelligence and spamming booming blade/green-flame blade and bonus action spells like flaming sphere or animate objects; or even a straight classed one (of small size) with the mounted combatant feat riding a Centaur Cavalier with Sentinel (basically giving one enemy disadvantage to attack everyone and enabling the Centaur to attack back every time an enemy tries to attack either of you). Aside from that, the infiltrator seems more viable.
This is the most disappointing part of Tasha's TBH. I was excited for it in UA. It seemed a little weak, but could have been buffed up. Instead, it got nerfed heavily and Twilight Domain became... what it is now. If nothing else, this is the proof Wizards balances their game with a dart board and a few beers rather than any actual math.
5 levels of Armorer plus 2 levels of War Magic Wizard gives you Shield and a reaction or a +2 to AC or +4 to saving throws. That helps a bit towards durability, plus grabbing Mind Sliver let's you dole out disadvantage to whoever you want.
Playing an armorer as my main character right now. It is a great support tank & crowd control with a little bit of multi classing (1 level of Peace Cleric plus 2 levels of war magic wizard & 6 levels of armorer artificer at the moment).
About Armor Modifications: I would have actually loved if they specified that if your armor is magical, only one of these pieces counts as magical for the purpose of Infusing your armor, it would have become so much cleaner
Pretty cool to see you talking about the Infiltrator armor, as I've seen so much discussion that immediately dismisses it to focus on Guardian armor.
Some random tips to getting a damage infiltrator armor build:
- For the Sharpshooter + Archery fighting style feat, if your race doesn't give you martial proficiency, you can get it by getting exposed/building/ect to Firearms. Artificer is automatically proficient with Firearms when exposed to them and they are all martial.
- Level10 one-shot is juicy for the +2 weapon and armor infusion, I plan on donating some infusions to the party.
1 Level fighter for +2 range attack bonus
Armorer Infiltrator for 300 feet range, (Fly) mobility, (low 20's)AC, (Bless, Revivify) support.
Sharpshooter
Fey Touch
Shield Master
Infusions change depending on level. Up to 3 infusions Spellwright Tattoo (owl friend and Shield spell), repeating shot (bonus action attack with SS, repulsion shield - to get distance if needed.
6 infusions: Armor of Magical Strength, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Homunculus, Winged boots, Helm of Awareness, Repeating Shot. For quick initiative, Giant Strength, and Flight.
i love this subclass bcs now you can have a super AC.
18 (full armor plate) + 2 (enchanced defense) + 2 (shield) + 2 (enchanced defense) + 1 (ring of protection) + 1 (cloack of protection) --- you can have an AC of 26
if you take 6 levels into forge cleric and the pick the fighting initiate feat and choose the defense fighting style you can get an AC of 28
you can also pick a lot of other usefull feats, like shield master, heavy armor master, defensive duelist (add profiency bonus to AC as a reaction)
and theres also the spells that you can use: sanctuary, shield, absorb elements, shield of fate, haste, protection from poision, protection from energy, stoneskin, etc.
and the new spells are just even better, mirror image, fire shield, magic mislle, hypnotic patern, etc.
this is my favorite artificer subclass
you cant stack 2 of the same infusions:
"18 (full armor plate) + 2 (enchanced defense) + 2 (shield) + 2 (enchanced defense) + 1 (ring of protection) + 1 (cloack of protection) --- you can have an AC of 26"
the enchanced defense is is aplied only once, so in this case you can make the repulsion shield instead for the +1
@@ricardogranelli and you cant stack forge cleric bonuses on artificer infusions either. They both make the item magical and therefore making it not applicable for the second bonus.
@@ricardogranelli But you can atleast still use the repulsion shield which makes it a +1 anyway, so atleast it's not too far off
@@mrjek01 Level 6 forge cleric just gives you a +1 for wearing heavy armor. They didn't include blessing of the forge
guys, i'm not the one saying this.. i just copied the OG to explain why its not possible, reply to him not me ;D
That Kobold Artificer pic in the introduction is fantastic.
Playing one of these rn, and rolled really well on stats. Took that opportunity to multiclass into Tempest Cleric and it works REALLY well. BUT it needs that really good stat roll to even dream of working.
Great video, and I loved all the armour artwork you included.
Currently playing one in "Dungeon of the mad mage" its a goblin with dextery as main stat, and i only use the infiltrator armor with a roguish playstile. So far so good, he gets adv on stealth and sleight of hand with the armor and one infusion, can hide as bonus action, has a good ac and some tricks with the infusions. Maybe lvl 6 its the sweet spot and from then its better to multiclass as a rogue, either assasin for the crit or the arcane trickster for extra sleight of hand uses via mage hand.
Chris,
When it comes to the strict wording of Flash of Genius and similar "Add to a roll" abilities, I tend to focus on "When you [...] make(s) an ability check" and refer to page 175 of the Player's Handbook. I believe the strict wording of the text supports your position, as follows: "To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier." It then stops, and clarifies that "As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC."
This means, strictly speaking, that there are two steps: Making the ability check, and comparing that check to the DC. I don't think anyone necessarily thinks of it that way in common usage, but that is what the text says. This means the 'default' case for "Add a bonus to [a target's] ability check" is to add it to the d20 roll BEFORE you compare it to the DC and, thus, before the result is known. That makes other abilities that interact with ability checks (and any other d20 roll, by implication) in a different way an exception to that rule, and for good reason; adding before you roll is weaker, and adding after you know the result is much stronger, so it makes good, common sense that the default rule would be the middle-ground option. In my mind, Flash of Genius is equivalent to the Bless spell for attack rolls, you're just applying the bonus for a single roll, and using a reaction instead of an action to apply it.
I do believe that re-roll abilities, such as the Lucky feat and the Chronurgy Wizard's class features, or the spell Fortune's Favor, also fall in line with this interpretation, all taking place before or after an existing check is compared to the DC.
tl;dr I agree, and I think the rules support your interpretation.
I see this subclass as being a crowd control tank. Hypnotic pattern is a great addition for strobe lighting your opponents.
Three or four levels in Armorer sounds like a good choice for an INT-SAD Eldritch Knight intent on tanking, rather than dishing out a ton of damage. You'd get Shield back, at least!
Just one note on the Guardian's 15:th level feature... You have Lightning Lure and Thorn Whip on your spell list. If you need to pull someone closer to you, you already can, since level 1. Granted it's an Action instead of a Reaction, but still.
Yea it's such a bad feature tbh. Proficiency times a day really?
At 6:36 I would say that if you read the flash of genius description literally, that means that you take the reaction when a creature within 30 feet makes the roll. So I would say, RAW, that an artificer would have to add the bonus as/before the physical roll is made and before the actual value of the roll is determined. Though I feel that would go against the flavor text of the ability which seems to be the artificer reacting to someone failing the check and pulling out some gadget to help them.
I have already done two builds with the Armorer subclass, both are Multiclassed options.
The Guardian uses 2 levels in the New Clockwork Soul Sorcerer so you can get Shield, spells, Armor of Agathys, and then using Shield when necessary. You use Greenflame blade for your main attack, because you’re going to use the Flames of Phelogos (I’m certain I’m misspelling it) feat.
I think the main two things you missed for the Guardian are the Dual Wielder feat (this means 3 attacks at 5th level and when combining that with the Mobile fear I think you can make a highly functional character that can give disadvantage to multiple enemies) and the Sanctuary Spell. If you want to avoid being hit you hit them with your Gauntlets and then cast Sanctuary on yourself. They can either attack an ally with disadvantage or attack you and potentially fail to attack you before trying to hit your decently high AC.
I also just realized that RAW you can benefit from the Dual Wielder feat and hold a Shield with this subclass. Kind of a weird thing but still. Because technically you are wielding two weapons simultaneously with both of your hands being gauntlets.
Only when you're not holding something
@@etherealhawk well your hands are the weapons but technically you have the weapons both equipped while holding the shield. It isn’t RAI but it is definitely RAW.
I'm most intrigued by the Infiltrator variant of the Armorer.
As a principle Artificer, I could see a dip into Rogue pretty easily in order to pick up Arcane Trickster as a subclass. Since Artificers can work with illusions and enchantments fairly well, it seems like a natural slot-in. Additionally, the Lightning Launcher does qualify for sneak attack, which is always a boon. And that's not counting other Rogue benefits (Thieves' Cant, Cunning Action, etc.).
On the other hand, the Fighter does add some stuff to the artificer too. Aside from Martial Weapon proficiency, the Fighter gets light armor, medium armor, shields, and simple weapon proficiencies -- all of which can be turned into extra tool proficiencies via TCoE. As for a subclass, the Eldritch Knight seems like a decent pickup for a reason that's similar in comparison to the Arcane Trickster, save for the fact that the focus is on Abjuration and Evocation spells.
That all being said, I could also see just a 2 level dip into Wizard to pick up any one of the following schools: War Magic, Chronurgy, or Divination.
EDIT: On further reflection for the Wizard, I think Chronurgy is probably the best fit for an m/c dip, as the comparison between Portent and Chronal Shift, while not negligible, is minimal at worst, in light of what the Divination subclass otherwise provides. (At worst, Chronal Shift eats the player's reaction as opposed to Portent, which consumes no action economy. On the other hand though, while Portent is great, it does come with a ribbon ability in Divination Savant, which is all but useless, as opposed to the Chronurgy subclass which gets Temporal Awareness.)
You could techically go Dex+Int and still take Sharpshooter. It’s an extra 1d6 of damage and you catch up in stats by spending one of the two extra Infusions to enhance the Launcher. It’s Lightning damage and Battle Smith has the golem to be a nuisance but Armorer has some nice features too
One thing we should note about the Armorer's special armor is that, if your DM uses the Encumbrance optional rules instead of simple carrying capacity (and I've known a few who do), then it's very easy to get screwed over by the simple WEIGHT of your armor even if you don't need to worry about its STR requirements. For example, in order to wear full plate armor (65 pounds) without taking at least a movement penalty, you'd need STR 13 under Encumbrance rules to avoid taking a movement penalty, and THAT'S if you carry NOTHING else, not even a weapon or a backpack. You'd need STR 14 just to carry a spear or even a dagger as well, and likely a 15 or 16 if you wanted to carry a shield and any kind of equipment. So the "you don't have to worry about STR requirements" rule for the Armorer can, depending on the campaign or DM, be kind of worthless.
As far as multiclass options go, well ... I really don't like half-casters (paladins excluded, because so many of their spells are overpowered *cough*optimized*cough* for their levels), ;) so what *I* would do is take just enough levels in Artificer to get the armor I want (probably two levels, just so I can get some infusions and add a full caster level to my build) and then go with any of the Wizard builds. The best thing about the Artificer class, in my opinion, is that we FINALLY have a second intelligence-based character class, and one that can add significant benefits to a Wizard build. Frankly, I LOVE the idea of a Wizard in half-plate and shield with a couple of extra cantrips and proficiency with CON saves. But if I were going to go Armorer, I would absolutely stop at 4th level (so as not to miss out on any Ability Score Improvements) and then, as I said, continue with a Wizard subclass (I'm thinking War Wizard would work both thematically and mechanically, but I'm also fond of the Abjurer and the Diviner).
The lastest Sage Advice has a ruling on the timing of Flash of Genius. You use it after the roll but before the result is known. It baffles me that they didn't just put that in the text since they were doing an errata anyway, but there you go.
Well, if someone has done a PhD in 5e they should see that immediately of course. But most people haven't :^]
I’m excited to see your armorer builds. Maybe after all this olg is over.
I've got this idea for a warforged armorer artificer whose body got blown up in the final days of the war. All that's left of him is a head, an arm, and half a spine, so he uses his armour as a sort of full-body prosthetic. Hoping to get my DM to have him confronted with guards who insist he can't wear his armour in the castle, or can't bring weapons into the pub so he can exhibit some of that in everyday scenarios :)
How does the ranged battlesmith outclass the ranged infiltrator so much? You can do 3d6+8+20 per turn with infiltrator at level 5. Battlesmith can do 2d10 +10+20. Seems like a pretty small margin. And thats using an infusion to be able to make 2 attacks with the heavy crossbow. You don't have to use any infusions to get your second attack and you get magical damage auto-attack as well.
The armor of magical strength can be very powerful with the bonus to strength checks and saving throws. While the second benefit requires you to use your reaction to prevent yourself from being probed, the first bullet does not. This means that it could potentially stack with your flash of genius feature, as well as your strength boosting infusions available later on.
Shouldn't the armor grant constant flight at high levels? XD
At 10th level, the artificer can copy Winged Boots as an infusion. The armorer can also chose to build 2 infusions in to their armor.
Just don't forget to solve the icing problem.
@@TuckBolt u can actually do up to 4 on ur armor. 6 total
I feel like level 9 is where the guardian armor becomes playable. You gain access to haste and can maintain concentration with your helm while in combat. You can then take 2 attacks and then booming blade each turn, and then bonus action disengage if you’re a goblin, or move if you took the mobile feat. At ninth level that works out to be (42) 6d8+15 thunder damage each round. Not necessarily the best damage, but the consistency is nice, plus you would have a minimum AC of 20 without any infusions. I personally might then take a 3 level dip into Eldritch Knight for action surge, shield and find familiar.
You can't cast spells or cantrips with Haste action. Only one attack, so you'll need to use Booming Blade instead of Extra Attack. So it would be only one attack plus Booming Blade OR three attacks.
My bad, thanks for the clarification
An option I do think that's interesting for the armourer is trying to use the gauntlet's of Ogre power/Belt of hill giant's strength infusions. Considering you get two extra infusions at 9th level, I think using one infusion on one of these items might make for an effective build with something like GWM. Especially considering the 15th level guardian ability lets you make a weapon attack, so it can be a GWM'd greatsword. Also, the THP of the guardian is weak early, but does scale very well into the later levels.
So at that point you can be decently tanky, have a good source of damage. At the same time you have the option to sacrifice damage to keep party members safe with the lightning gauntlets. I think you can definitely make this subclass work.
Also, while I do agree that specialising in one set of armour over the other is the way to go. It's still good for a guardian-focussed armorer to have something like a breastplate handy to turn into infiltrator armour for when you do need stealth, notably group stealth. It won't be a great combat option, but it can be great utility out of combat in an area where other heavy armor users tend to drag the party down.
@@gamecavalier3230 Very true. But until that point you can at least get by with your intelligence + armor weaponry. You won't be too behind in damage until then. I don't think the damage gap is too bad early on.
It also fits the fantasy of power armour enhancing your strength.
Your primary concern is likely that you need to get martial weapon proficiency from another source. So either a race that gives it or a multiclass.
I did a solid "all arounder" artificer in a short Ravnica game.
Goblin with Guardian Breastplate armor. Infusions for a repeater rifle and an elven cloak. Int>Dex>Con>Wis
Good stealth and decent ranged attacks, solid melee opponent when poop hit the fan.
I'm going to play a multiclass rogue/armorer. Constant advantage on stealth and the lightning launcher works with sneak attack. Plus some spell utility and infusions. I don't know how viable it is but the idea is to make a high tech spy with gadgets. Should be fun at least
I'd add a feature to the Thunder Gauntlets that would temporarily siphon the defenses from the creature hit. They suffer a 1d4 penalty to AC, and the player gains that amount of AC until the start of their next turn. Call it Steal Defense or something.
Alternatively, the Infiltrator could do something similar, where the player 'loans' 1d4 of their next stealth check and gives the bonus to a friendly's stealth check.
I'd love to hear a multi-class option for the Armorer
Here's an easy one that I won't do a build for because it's similar to my tanking build - but echo knight 3 with Guardian armor could be pretty effective I think
Order of scribes wizard. Call your tome Just A Rather Very Intelligent Spellbook, or J.A.R.V.I.S. for short, and name the character Tony Stank.
The Armorer build I’m currently considering is Armorer 3 Hexblade 2-5 into Clockwork Sorcery or Divine Soul X. It would be a charisma focused build.
For defense you take heavy armor + shield (Enhanced Defense) + Shield spell + Shield of Faith and/or Armor of Agathys for defense.
For offense you put Hex Warrior on the Thunder Gaunlet, take CrossbowExpert via VHuman, and use Eldritch Blast and Booming Blade in combat. Theme it as Ironman shooting beams from his hand and punching people with electrified fists. Alternatively you can take Lightning Launcher and Sharpshooter for decent damage with 300ft range, although it is a bit redundent with EB.
As far as flavor goes, Clockwork Soul I think is a very natural fit with an Artificer. However Divine Soul is very wide open too, since you could easily themed the character as something like a mortal descendant of Mechanus. The Hexblade bit needs a bit more reflavoring, or if DM willing you can just make your patron Mechanus or your gauntlet/armor something crafted by Mechanus. Some tables reflavoring might not even be necessary.
PS - By the way I understand if you think that 3 levels of Armorer does not an Armorer build make, I would say that 90% of the Armorer flavor comes in the first 3 levels, and those three levels are pretty relevant to the way the build would play.
I'm thinking of Armorer Artificer/Bloodhunter multiclass
Divination wizard or evo
Is it just me or does it seem like the 3rd level bonus spells for the Armourer and Artillerist are flipped. Like why does the Armorer, the subclass with abilities built around tanking not have the Shield spell, while Artillerist doesn't have Magic Missile.
It basically feels like those two are the reverse of what they sould be
Hey,treantmonk,are you going to be doing a video for tasha's feats? I think we have some new optimization options,fey touched beeing one of them
Fey Touched is really good to get hunters mark or hex.
Yes
@@decobyjones9491 That was what I was thinking,it is now a top tier feat for gish caracters(martial and spellcasting), even more for Eldritch Knight,as fighter gets more attacks
@@TreantmonksTemple Nice
@@decobyjones9491 Honestly, it's hard to beat Gift of Alacrity. 8 hours, no concentration.
There are two things about the Armorer you didn’t mention that I think are worth bringing up.
1) it’s unclear weather or not you can infuse the Armorer’s special weapons before level 9. The fact that the weapons are explicitly made a part of the armor and are pointed out as something you can infuse at level 9 implies to me you aren’t intended to infuse them before that point. If this is the case I’d say the Armorer is probably a little closer to the Alchemist than the Battlesmith since you sink an entire class feature into a set of weapons that don’t synergize with the rest of your class.
2 As nice as Armor Modifications is it’s not as valuable as a good feature you get at lower levels. A lot of campaigns end around levels 9-12 meaning there’s a good chance you’ll only have this feature for a tiny fraction of the campaign and you’ll spend most of your career relying on the subclass’s mediocre starting features.
Yeah the RAW isn’t crystal clear but my read of it is the gauntlet/launcher become a weapon as soon as you transform the armor into arcane armor. And assuming the armor itself is non-magical pre-transformation, then it should satisfy the infusion requirements.
IMHO - The way I read it, it's either Enhanced Defense or Enhanced weapon on the armor before 9th. For Infiltrator, I would go with the Enhanced Weapon, and switch it to Radiant Weapon at 6th and then go to town when I reached 9th.
@@zh90604 That’s how I think it *should* work. But the feature doesn’t tell you that.
Can you explain how defensive field isn’t a good option? While there are other options for temporary hit points, that doesn’t make defensive field bad. Defensive field is a bonus action to use, for starters, which means it can be used mid-combat. It also scales quadratically, as both proficiency bonus and class level scale with class level. Thus at level 20, this provides an extra 120 HP per day, even though at 5th level it would only give 15.
I cant wait for the new Artillerist review :)
Guardian Armorer, with Winged Boots, Movement feat, and ability to self haste is more effective than the sum of it's parts. The ability to tag 3 targets (4 if you take the dual wielder feat), and retreat up to the relatively safety of the air can go a long way. You can improve this by using your spell storing item, with 10 charges of Web to reduce how many creatures can follow you up into the air (or knock them down). Finally, the 15th level ability gets more interesting when you use it while flying to add a bit of fall damage, but more importantly, leave them prone after their turn for a full combat round.
we found it goofy that the gauntlets didn't count as light, so we ruled that at our table and helps with the guardian 'drawing aggro' especially with the boots of the winding path.
I see the Artificer spell list as function over form, usefulness over flair etc.
Getting hex or hunters mark through a feat makes the damage pretty reasonable. At 5th you do two attacks at 1d8 and hunters mark does 1d6 twice. Plus int bonus.
Then as a bonus the homunculus does 1d4 plus 3.
All while giving disadvantage and having an AC around 20.
The mind infusion keeps you from losing concentration on hunters mark.
That’s averaging mid 20s damage per round.
Random extra note. At low levels, really even for a while. magic Stone cantrip pays dividends. INT ranged. And you can get aspects of the sharpshooter via Sling use. int to hit and damage still. WOrks with extra attack
The limb replacement is awesome for me purely for flavor reasons. I'm making a human Armorer Artificer named Yawgmoth; A simple tinkerer who dreams one night of a Machine God made of metal and gems, powered by lightning, who inspired him to become apart of something far greater than himself. He only heard one word on repeat; "Omnissiah."
My DM thought the idea sounded fun, so she allowed it. Which is going to make for some hilarious encounters considering a good part of the campaign has to deal with Fae. 🤣😂🤣
I love that at 3rd level armourers get to give themselves 3 temp hp maybe 3-4 times per long rest while twilight clerics give themselves and all of their buddies d6+3 temp hp for a minute once per long rest (even if you only target yourself that's at minimum 30+10d6 temp HP). I know I can't just look at classes in a vacuum and that balance is a very situational thing but I marvel at the fact that this power disparity was allowed to exist and was put into print.
It is called feature and power creep.
@@Cloud_Seeker These were released in the same book, power creep shouldn't be an issue here. As for feature creep, I can't agree more, although it does go against WotC's design philosophy of making the UA more powerful than the published content. Treantmonk's video on the clerics in Tasha's explains this pretty well and includes the clip of JC explaining why they do it.
I have played an armorer artificer and I am first and foremost a tank, but I also am utility. My DM gave me a special tanking ability (considering the ranger had as much health as me), and I have a good Con. As of writing this comment, I am 10th level and made a cloak of protection so now I have +9 to Con; I can’t fail concentration checks if I take less than 22 damage. I basically have an Iron Man style suit and jokes have been made about changing my character’s last name to Stark, especially since I can now fly. I have 21 AC base (plate + shield + cloak) and can get 23 AC from Haste
Can't you just use magic initiate to get shield? You'd also get some handy cantrips too.
Artificers with infused weapon, or paladins/clerics with his holy symbol in shield, may use spells when this weapon/shield is in one hand, and the other hand isn't free
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell."
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."
I love this subclass and it's purely for that level 9 ability. Having 2 extra infusions just adds so much versatility.
You can have your main set of 2-3 items (e.g., maybe shield, armor, weapon, or something like the spell refueling) and then pick-up 2 based on what you need in the day ahead. Maybe a wand of secrets if you're breaking into a lab? Maybe dimensional shackles (fun with an Enchanter dip)? Maybe Mind Sharpener for that spell that needs to really stick for your plan to work.
Or a homunculus that you can pass magic stones too for a decent BA attack with a 60' range!
Belts of Giant Strength are also super useful. I gave one to my Flying Monkey Familiar so it could fly me and friends around.
The homunculus takes the dodge action unless commanded with a bonus action. Magic stones use your bonus action to create, you can only have one active, and deal 1d6+INT damage which would deal an average of 3.5+5=8.5 DPR, so if you're alternating bonus actions, you're actually dealing 4.25 DPR on average. Your homunculus deals 1d4+PB damage all on its own. Even at level 2, that averages to 2.5+2=4.5, and it only improves as you level up.
@@AnaseSkyrider You can have 3 magic stones active at a time. Learn to read.
Well you can use the guardian armor for battle but have a separate armor for stealthing. That avoids the meme where the paladin is clanking around while the rogue is stealthing
Can a Spell-refueling ring @12:30 be handed off to a full caster? The prerequisite is "6th-level artificer", and while that could be there to prevent multi-classed artificers from making it too early, it looks like the requirements for magical items as found in in the DMG.
Thanks for the video Chris!
I liked this subclass for the artificer 😎
I think it could be pretty cool ranged option if you pick up the hex/hunters mark from the feat or multiclass 🤔
The key to switch between armor models is to go dex 16 and take medium armor master, your armorer wil end up with the same AC as in full plate and it will cancel disadvantage on stealth rolls at the same time.
The lightning launcher isn't too bad. Its essentially a Greatsword with GWM if you take sharpshooter for your first attack, with the second attack being a longsword with GWM. You just don't get the crossbow expert feat stuff, but comparing it to your melee fighters its not too bad. (And at 15, its essentially a Greatsword at ranged.) Your essentially a ranger in plate with enough abilities to possibly get to 35 AC or higher. And its a one handed attack, so you can use a shield, AND I believe the lightning launcher can also be used for somatic components because its like Iron Man's hand blaster things, so that is just nice.
With how high your AC is with armorer, you kinda shrug off opportunity attacks, so lacking that feature of Xbow expert isn't that bad either.
The launcher doesn’t require any hand, can stay on your chest and can shoot. You can use an hand cross bow, shot two times with the bonus action and use the second attack for a third 2d6 thunder attack.
Spell fueling ring.. I wish they'd made it unique and had it "3 slots " up to a 3rd, or a 2 and a 1 or three1s. To make the item its own thing
I have an armorer I really like. Typical infiltrator with sharpshooter. Currently sitting on a 23 AC at level 12. I have given my rogue/ranger a repeating +1 bow that has been essential and my paladin the radiant weapon. Without my help I don't think they would have had magic weapons until maybe level 10. This has been a hug boon to the party. Additionally, I am fairly consistently dealing 20-30 damage a turn. On top of all of that I happen to be the best caster in our party (the Bard never shows) so I often have all of the toolbox support stuff needed. Also, I think shield would be a little OP if given to this class. Especially for the Guardian. I can see lines where you could create a great tank with this class. I do agree the 15th level guardian ability should be less restrictive, I think it would be really cool if it had unlimited uses and likely not OP.
I want to play this and walk around in power armor like i came straight from Fallout.
Or Warhammer 40k ...
I think the artificer should also have an equivalent to the Armor of Magical Strength, but for Dexterity saves and checks (shouldn’t be that problematic, right?).
Taking a shield, heavy armor, and all the defensive infusions leaves you with a 25 ac with resistance to force damage and straight up immunity to magic missile
I don't think they quite need the spell shield
I just built one for a onehot an gave it some thought. I think you misunderstand thinking this is for ranged/melee flexibility. he can only switch on a long rest after all - that is not exactly flexible.
But he is a heavy tank & battlefield control & utility character who can also sneak in heavy armor.
one thing you could do for the guardian build is take booming blade either with a multiclass or by taking a feat. with the rules as written, you make your armor a weapon and your armor has a cost to it so I think booming blade would work with the materiel prerequisite. it gives a decent boost with your damage
Booming blade is on the artificer spell list
@@thecharmer5981 oh it is? oh it is! I must have missed that lol. I do still feeling like the damage boost from this cantrip is good for this sub class though
With the new MotM races (*cough* Githzerai *cough*), would you be willing to make an armorer build?
You can combine abjuration wizard shield spell hp with temp hp. Not to bad on that part.
One is a magical shield that comes out every time you perform a abjuration spell. The other is temp hp. Nice combo of needed.
what about some 3 levels dip in armorer on a base of tempest cleric? the infiltrator model could be a sort of repelling blast mover, and you'd be a cleric
You could take a 2 level dip into abjuration wizard and have a nifty ward up along with the shield spell :)
I would really like to see a Character build who throws stuff from you
Would you need to go with darts, so one can use the sharpshooter feat. What about multiclassing? (or which class in general for that matter, probably fighter but with the fighting initiate feat it can work on others too). Thoughts?
Consider, you can use the extra infusions to make room for Gauntlets of Ogres Strength or Belt of Hill Giant Strength, maybe a +2 greatsword and +2 plate armor, and turn into a melee thug even with infiltrator armor.
After level 10 and level 14 yes. Problem is that most campaigns does not go that high. So what exactly is your build going to be before that point? I am not going to make a build based on what I get at level 10 or level 14. Any character is powerful at that point.
What do you think about the optional class skills for monks? Should it be just apart of monks now? Or to be swapped out for other skills?
I know this is an older video, but maybe someone sees my comment and can give advice. I just started a campaign with an (Armorer) Artificer and wonder if multiclassing would be a good or bad option, especially considering an improvement in damage. I am thinking about either 2-3 levels in Ranger (Archery Fighting Style and Hunters Mark), 1-3 levels in Fighter (Second Wind, Action Surge and maybe choosing Psi Warrior, Eldritch Knight or Battlemaster), 1-3 level in Rogue for Expertise and Sneak Attack or maybe even a single level (or two) in War Cleric (Cantrips, Spells and Martial Weapon Proficiency to later take the feat Fighting Initiate to get the Archery fighting style). I already have Sharpshooter because we got a free feat at the start. Any advice would be great (we are planning on playing until lvl 20).
Gaurdian is so limited on both 3rd and 15th level features. Really disappointing.
Do you have a build for the armorer planned? I am curious what you might make out of it.
I’m making an armorer artificer based entirely off Viktor from Arcane. Except now they have a mech semi-suit, where I’d want to treat it more like something my character sits in rather than a literal suit of armor. The only problem is that this characters strength is a 5, and that means plate armor + a bag of holding is their max carrying capacity… so unless a DM is willing to let me ignore the carry weight of the armor (since they technically won’t be carrying it…?) then the build fails. Rest in piece nerd. :(
Part of the reason they didn’t get a optional feature is probably because they already are able to retrain a cantrip every level which is more than every class except wizard.
You need to understand the extra survivability. When the steel defender dodges when you do spells with more damage, all enemies get disadvantage on attacks against it. That being said it has the reaction to deflect and stops you from being hit and it has a much higher chance not to be hit due to dodges disadvantage. So the enemy wastes an action miss both of you.