Carbon Fibre Bike Parts - How hard can it be?!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
- PT Merch: peak-torque.com
15% off merch for Patrons / peaktorque
Easy Composites: / @easycompositestv
www.easycompos...
Powermeter (Assioma) - tidd.ly/3Z98OXb
Reference powermeter (quarq) - tidd.ly/3WJx9Bn
Control tyre (GP5000) - tidd.ly/3GEF512
Head unit:
amzn.to/3C5xMwQ - UK link
amzn.to/3G3sEKM - US link
105 Rim brake holy grail groupset bargain - tidd.ly/3BNlkSb
I like how you talk about this as if the average person has these skills and could do all this work 😂
They can. Honestly, its just like making a very intricate cake. Don't worry, there was about a weeks worth of swearing, mess, splinters and general mishaps behind this 11 minutes! Apart from the 3d printer, there's nothing special there. The dremel cost me 60 quid.
@@PeakTorque you’re still over-simplifying, though, because half of the work is actually the design work. You’re a trained engineer with experience in product design, CAD, and drafting. For a layperson to design the molds or prototypes for 3D printing would be an incredibly steep learning curve.
However, WE are the ones you should sell production versions of that mudguard to…
@@danielakerman8241 You dont need to learn full CAD, sketchup or tinkercad will work and both of those are fairly easy to pick up the basics of in an hour or so. Also free.
Yeah, this is how it starts...
I started with a Garmin mount, then seat post clamp, then seat post, then saddle, then front derailleur. Have bike/crank/handlebars designed and working on rear derailleur
Wheels, I'm not doing wheels, too tricky.
There's a video on why it took humanity almost 1000 years to invent the wheel. Circle is the most versatile and also the most difficult geometry to work with.
Thats sweet. Are you gonna go Adam Hansen mode and make custom shoes?
Same. Am currently designing an RD for a Brompton.
Dude this is SICK! I've thought of doing something similar for a year or two, but having to create the molds has always put me off. After seeing this, I might have to take the plunge on a 3d printer. What a wicked project!👌
Cheers mate. Definitely do it. Its a lot of work and a steep learning curve but once you've done it, anything is possible.
@@PeakTorque what 3d printer did you use? any recommendations?
@@wetfart756 luckily i have access to some pretty professional ones but the one in this video is my home work horse Creality S3
meeting of 2 ultimate diy cheapskates
next episode in this series should be about making your own frame with custom lugs using 3d printed tools
A safety tip for beginners working with wet layout, the epoxy + hardener reaction is exothermic, so you should never dispose of a cup of epoxy into a bin with other trash in it. Someone did this at our composites lab at uni many years ago and it made a right old mess of the place.
yup, seen the bin at the composites lab smolder a bunch of times
In my experience (windsurf boards), Epoxy was less exothermic than Polyester. The advice is to do a small quantity at a time since the curing takes hours, there is no rush.
Most probably polyester. My epoxy resin (EL2) is barely exothermic
@@PeakTorque Epoxy is generally less exothermic but I have a few short pot life epoxy combos that are brutally exothermic. Know how the product will behave exothermically regardless of chemistry.
Oh dear been watching easy composite, love it. A really useful resource. So well presented it gives you the confidence that you can do it and demystifies molds, lay ups etc.
Is the mud guard compliant 😁
I have an idea for your next video , 3d print fairings and see how aero you can make your bike ?
I have already designed a few mods for the TT bike but i don't even have the CdA baseline for that yet. Just need to find the time!
I used to ride a recumbent with a front fairing. The difference when I added it was huge. Highly recommended.
@@TheGotoGeekrecumbent is already so aero, dynamic, I wonder why the bike industry hasn't tried to make a hybrid between an normal bicycle and a recumbent
A really close fitting aero carbon mudguard for the front wheel has got to be worth some investigation - if the leading edge was shaped and went low enough to cover the top third of the wheel and act as a fairing for the rest of the wheel, there’s gotta be some good gains to be had.
just wanted to say that the full 86g fender looks pretty dope. I'm a big fan of tight fitting fenders and I think they could even make aero sense for road bikes that mostly go on the flats...
Same. This rear fender is definitely no air brake, with how close it is to the tread. Would love to see PT make a front one - a proper one with a projecting piece forward of the fork crown so a rider doesn't eat his/her own front wheel spray at 20+ km/h.
Cheers guys. Definitely doing to make a front one with good coverage. The problem with aero bikes now is the clearance between the front wheel and downtube is so tight. Not an issue on the tcr
The amount of swearing from my garage with regular bike repairs alarms the neighbours. The DBs from doing something like this would eclipse Krakatoa. As always, great vid!
Such a cool project, I love the direction this channel is going with the aero testing and stuff
Great explanation of the whole process keeping it simple. I taught composite materials and mechanics for several years at MTU. In the lab we made all sorts of things - one of my students made a carbon fibre chain guard. He went on to work for Cannondale. With the really thin stuff it's best to keep pumping the vacuum all the time - a small rotary pump will suffice. You'll need a resin trap too so you don't have the pump sucking in the excess resin. You'll get a carbon content approaching that of prepreg. 😊
Cheers
7:48 the dark install tune is a deep cut! Damn. Where did he go!
cracking job, proper DIY project!
You could do some carbon aero fender/ windshields in the front and attachments which smooth the airflow in the rear 🤔🚀
I designed my own 3D print guard like in your last vid on my winspace T1500 which came out almost perfect. I found it difficult to get the geometry right of the root section, especially given the dropped seat stays is different to the more consistent geometry of your giant. You got any tips for an out-of-their-depth civil engineer on accurately modelling the bike geometry? I see you've even got both the ass-saver and scolloped guard in the same file. Would like to give the carbon a go but need to nail the 3D print design first - great stuff btw
Take a very 'flat' photo from a distance to minimize the paralax. Then import into your CAD and scale it to a known length in the image (seat height for example). Do this in both planes and voila there is your guide.
I printed a very short sample root section twice to get the right geo before going for the full print sections.
3d scan using widar or polycam
Rear one causes drag. Front one limited to rim breaks will save you good amount of watts. Try it
top tip. when wet laying carbon put the dry mat onto a sheet of polythene then roll the resin on. when the mats wet put another sheet of polythene on top. Then cut it with a sharp knife and a straight edge. you wont get frayed edges,keeps your table clean and you can peel 1 side of the polythene off so u can lay it up without strecthing the mat
Great tip that, good idea! Like DIY pre-preg!
The new ass saver that attaches to seat stay has been great for me. No more fiddly saddle attachment.
Could you experiment with forged carbon fibre as well? For some smaller parts, maybe a computer mount or something like that
when you printing mould use setting with ticker than regular walls (around 4 lines is enough). For sanding mould I am using only 120-240, sometime staring with 80 in certain Area. There is no need to go up to 800 as this will reduce grip for the finishing resin. I am using two coats of finishing (XCR) resin (first layer and than second after first tacky). It is worth in small part to degas resin before use to get less pinholes etc. Once resin is cured (usually giving24h) depends on the finish going from 120-2000 sand paper ( to 320 grid dry and from 400 wet sanding). After 2000 grit paper polishing with 3m polishing compound. Mould created like this give super finish and when lamination is done well. Especially for one offs.
Ass saver not too bad but require some elbow grease and sanding :) For fender mould not prepared correctly and you can see consequence there. But nevertheless thumbs up for effort.
My printer is well calibrated, 80 grit would make it worse. I am using 3 outer lines and 50 percent fill for most molds and its plenty strong enough.
As long as this is fdm printer in some complex shapes print won't be as good as in flat and steep walls and 80 makes work faster. Most likely you can achieve same result with 120 just takes a bit longer at the end. At the end doesn't matter what you used but the end result will speak for himself, i just share my experience with 3d printing and carbon lamination.
That’s really cool. I can see you making many useful parts in the coming years that 1000’s of us mere mortals need.
Ha! Funny to hear your backstory
I'm a bike guy now....but have carbon experience from FSAE in uni...always been waiting for a reason to break out those skills again 🤣
Cheers
I have watched hours and hours of easy composites videos in my day....great stuff
Good to hear. Definitely get back into it!
I wish there were carbon arch supports for g8 2620 footbeds, cause the plastic ones don’t hold their shape quite well
Send me an email...
@@PeakTorque Since you're taking requests i'm after a 3d mount for my canyon. Doesn't have to be carbon fiber, plastic will do.
@@DanTuber what Canyon?
@@PeakTorque ultimate cf sl 8.0
Clever stuff. I am thankful I don't need to worry about mounting something like this to my bike with favourable climate. It's hard to look at.
Great vid, thanks!👍
How would you go about making a full size mudguard from carbon fibre?
Thinking about doing just that on my gravel bike because the current Bluemels fit well but I want to make something lighter and more stable. A mould would maybe be a bit big for that(?)
When smoothing out the mold, it's easier to expose it to acetone. Attach it to the lid of a large bowl, pour acetone in the bottom, leave it for a day. The vapor will smooth out most lines very nicely
I don't use acetone smoothing as its not good for the inter laminar layer strength. Significantly weakens layer adhesion.
@@PeakTorque and PLA can't be smoothed with acetone. I don't remember if you mentioned what filament material you're using, but I guess PLA as it's easier to work with because it doesn't emits toxic fumes (I'm pretty sure you did mention the material but I'm too lazy to watch again, should do it for AdSense tho)
@@elbatch WATCH IT BATCH. Yeh pla or PETG. I don't use abs ever, i don't see the benefits tbh and it's a pain.
Looks brilliant. I will have to give it a go. I want to make front aero guard fairing so I might just go out and get that 3D printer.
will get down to the technicians in the workshop at University (art and design rather than engineering) and see if we can get this working....
Could you explain the difference between pre-preg, wet layup and resin transfer moulding? Advantages, disadvantages and tooling needed for each?
Prepreg has the resin infused in the correct ratio into the fabric. Easier to work with (in general), no mixing of epoxy, no wetting out fibres, easier to cut out intricate shapes and layups. However, needs temperature cure, which is why I can't use it for 3d printed moulds (they start to soften at 60c+)
Wet layup is what you see here. Ideal for one off prototypes, repair panels, and skins. Downsides are heavier parts (more resin), messy process, slow, time-pressure of epoxy pot life when working with large molds.
Resin Transfer... similar to wet layup but much better control. You use the vacuum to draw the resin over the dry cloth. Suitable for batch production or processing large panels that can't be done with pre-preg. Downsides are that it may take a few runs and lots of wasted material to get the optimal vacuum/resin path and wet-out over the fabric. These are my opinions, maybe Easy Composites can comment if they see this video.
Pre preg, is pre impregnated carbon fibre (already has the resin in it) it's easier to use because it doesn't fray when handling it, it gets baked in an oven to activate the bonding process between layers. (What most bike manufacturers use, hence why there's voids in layers)
Wet layup is what was done here, start with a mould, spray it with wax and work it smooth, apply a gel coat of resin then apply a layer of carbon cloth, brush on epoxy resin apply another layer of cloth repeat until required layers are achieved. It's messy.
Injection is where you have a dry layup of carbon fibre in a mold and the resin is drawn through the cloth using a vacuum pump, the strongest method of the three and the hardest one to do. (Won't get voids between layers)
Forge method is where you have a 2+ part mold and you pack it with carbon strands mixed with resin and compress the mold parts to squeeze the excess resin out.
@@PeakTorque Thanks for your response! A follow up question - I ride a Time (on the recommendation of a 5 year old engineer), and they use RTM. Why is it that RTM seems to yield the best geometric tolerance of any of the methods? It seems like very few bikes made using pre-preg can be made to spec. Is it due to method, manufacturing laziness, or a combo of both?
@@PeakTorque as a home solve to your 3D prints not being strong enough for pre-preg, you could always make a negative mold on the 3D printer to make a carbon mold from that, then use the carbon mold for the pre-preg.
@@fergusdenoon1255 yep that's the next stage am working on ;) Once i find a shape that's worth a few production runs
Do you vacuum your resin to boil off dissolved gases? Also worth noting you don't need to even own a 3D printer these days. Most towns will have a makerspace with access to printers, often at the cost of the filament and an annual membership fee of £1.
No, i didn't degas. The EL2 resin is quite runny and a lot of buzzle fizz off on their own.
Spookily enough I am just making a mould for a carbon mudguard for my gravel bike and this video pops up on my feed. Almost like there is an algorithm and metadata capture thing happening. Have you considered vacuum resin infusion rather than pre-preg? I am planning on using it for some bigger pieces I will be making so the mudguard is just a test piece really. I think resin infusion should remove the issues with air and finish quality as well as possibly being lighter as the resin is better deployed. There is the cost of the pump of course but I have just had mine delivered. I would love top know your thoughts on resin infusion as an option.
What app is it for making mould from model? I mean adding flange etc female mould
Aero review coming up on the Hyper D67's? Just copped a set and felt extremely fast with GP5k's on the first ride.
How heavy was the original 3D printed one?
About 300g if i remember correctly
Great content as always. Curious what your engineering take is on the Classified hub…idea for a next video?😊
This your M3 that you're leaning your bike on?
Hi. Can I place an order for 1 set of carbon full mudguards for use in winter on a gravel bike with 700c wheels and 45mm tyres please?
Really interesting. As an aside, it would be interesting to know if that ass-saver also works as a splitter plate that improves aerodynamics.
I'm thinking of trying something like this with nori seaweed, guessing a similar technique should be fine?
Yes but you need the proper sushi rice or it won't cure properly
By chance, did you do a spray analysis to see where the fender has to start/stop to be effective? I have a printer and am trying the Crud Roadracer MK3 now and it's actually not too bad, a pain to mount though, and I more or less want to make it easier to pop on and off is my main goal.
Yes, i did some basic theory of angular velocity and tangent vectors etc but its completely inaccurate due to the 'stickyness' of water to rubber and water to water that you can't model, so In the end i just filmed it in 120fps. I didn't extend it too low, I don't often group ride and when i do I'm dropped
@@PeakTorque never group ride either, I'm trying to keep myself cleaner and less soggy more than anything. I use a "nice bike" as my daily driver, so mounting options are my issue.
Well done. Maybe Mudhugger wants to hire you 😁 I like the big one as it give better coverage. Yours looks great, almos tlike classic motorcycle mud guard. Not the flat up ward shape of Mudhugger, but a curve. Nice. A full guard covering down to the chainstay would be harder to make i guess. A front huar dwould be nice too.
good start!
Is this an advert?
Either way I love it
Carbon fibre is potentially overkill for what you're wanting to do. If you could find a twill prepreg with carbon/dyneema you could get a lighter weight and probably a few dollars cheaper. Rather than cleaning up the carbon finish you could paint it in either the frame colour or a paint that is a close match to the wheels. If it matched the wheels it would look pretty stealthy.
With the large rear one at that weight, only CF will be stiff enough. A hybrid twill you would lose a lot of shear modulus and it would definitely wag and hit the tyre. At the rear half this is only 2 plies thick..
Do you think Liz Truss would use your custom clip-on mud guard?
i wonder if you could sell something similar without the stay attachment built in so that buyers can trim that end for perfect fitment and then bond on the mount bit?
Yes I have a modular design like that, but its not as pure! Still needs work
How's about sticking it in the hydraulic press rather than the vagbac though
this would look cool matching paint
What handlebar bag is that mate
'today is gonna be epic' - long live Sam Pilgrim
Gonna make me a fork. Thanks for the tip.
I would experiment with using a solvent to smooth out the mold.
Can't do that easily with pla. Acetone won't touch it
Please please do an aero test with and without your fenders.
Does the coating resin protect from UV?
Yep. Its a good one.
The epic music in the background:D
Wear gloves when working with epoxy. Becoming sensitive to epoxy through exposure is not fun.
I've also tried the clothes bag and vacuum cleaner trick, and it works surprisingly well
Excellent video.
Nice vid! Are those wheels the D67 winspace hyper wheels? Are you putting out a review on them?
Yes they are. Been testing them for a month so expect the video within another 2 months or so
Easy Composites are fab✌️
wish I could easily buy some carbon here in the Philippines
absolutely love it
You should produce and sell these, I would buy for my TCR!
Im looking into the tooling now due to a lot of demand!
How much did you pay for the raw materials (carbon sheets, epoxy, etc.) for the full mud guard?
EC sent me the materials for this video but total material costs for the video parts was about 40 gbp.
Very Great 👍👍
Amazing 🤩🤩
AB would add speed vents.
Is the ass saver working? What is the difference in performance between those two?
Ass saver does work perfectly! But in all honesty im just using the big one now as it just stays on. Will have to remove it for my aero test protocol though
I am thinking of making one as well now. good idea
Very cool!
Well done, I laid my first carbon 40 years ago.
Pre internet, so I had to learn the hard
You should wear latex gloves while working with resin. It's really not great for your skin and might cause some heavy skin irritation. It might be resin dependant but I remember back in the day when we were working on the aero package of our formula student car we all got heavy skin reactions when the resin came in contact with it.
Yeh I'd already started and the pot life was ticking but this epoxy is pretty mild tbh. The hardener is a bit smelly. Were you using polyester resin?
Latex gloves are better than no gloves, but even latex gloves are permeable to epoxy resin. Better invest in nitrile gloves
@@PeakTorque Unfortunately I don't remember since it's been like 6 years. All I know is that it was some resin with a pretty high boiling point. we originally got it for parts near the downpipes but the supplier send us two barrels of it so we used it universally on all parts.
do you have the .stl file for the mudgards :)
Yes
Brilliant
Using 3d-printing to create carbon fiber bicycle parts is not difficult. I used similar methods to create a lightweight seatpost for my stupid propriety bike frame with great success. - Everyone into bikes can benefit from owning a 3D-printer. :)
is that a BMW M5 or M3 backend there? either way.. nice car!
Pretty sure it’s an E46 M3. I wonder if the owner knows PT is using the car as a leaning post?
Sell the ass saver pls (if you can find someone to make them) ... also I'd be VERY interested to see an aero test with an ass saver that long and that stiff.
Why not use pre-preg? Too easy? 😁
3d printed moulds will not withstand the temperature cure. But it can be done by making a 3d printed pattern first, then making an epoxy mould from that. That's the next stage.
So cool Alex!
But I'm sure 99% of us would prefer to buy this from you rather than DIY 🤣
This is awesome, it's the same type of mudguard I'm looking at building for my mtb. Could you get in contact with me so as to discuss this??
Send me an email peaktorque@outlo0k.com
He should design the Bianchi air deflectors next :) … bc I don’t know how to 3D design myself yet
The speed advantage would be insufferable
Whaddabout front fender? Wet feet worse than wet bumbum!
Spatz
Very cool. 😎👍🏻
Awesome!
what 3d printer do you have?
I have a couple but the one in the video is a great cheap option. Creality Ender S3
Damnit you beat me to it
but my fenders are 25g ;)
Crazy!
why r u saying sam pilgrims phrase today is gonna be epic
hambini mix intro ? :D
Send this thing to Shenzhen and make a few thousand. 🤣
Lets say you had a good idea, but first of all Idk why it should be done from expensive carbon when fiber glass will do the trick. Also such design of the rear fender is from my pov - useless. Why!? If you have in mind aerodynamics this fender will be better is suited covering the front quarter of the front wheel so the rider don't have to overcome the drag created from the rotating wheel. On the back of the wheels there are two ways to fix the spray. When we have in mind the way the water sticks to the tire, we need a small fenders (2-3) shaped like wings at the back of the wheel, positioned from 7 to 9 o'clock. And for the rear wheel just 2 more at 11 and 12.
holy shit i havent seen salad fingers in a long long time, ah thems were the days of internet weirdness
I WANT ONE!!
Looks like half a mudguard to me.
mint, love this type of shit.
Hello Hambini fans!
E46 gang 🤝
I'm sorry but you will not be welcome on the Donny Chain Gang with short mudguards and NO mudflaps!.. What were you thinking?! 😠
Thank god for that, you sound like a miserable old bat!
Any plans to sell these to fellow TCR riders? Where do I sign up?
I could...but the labor + material cost of making more....? No wonder the bike industry went to the far east.
KYDEX
hambinised Hello?
Excuse me is this carbon optimal compaction low void I'm going to need you to cease and desist and only make "shit compaction tons of voids" carbon parts thanks - hearts and flowers, trek legal
what a waste of carbon and time for such nonsense...
Thanks
please always wear gloves
Questioning why I’m paying for Patreon if the videos are made public 27 minutes later.
As a way to support a small creator putting out content?
no need to be his patreon. Guy is a good engineere he aint gonna starve. Support him only if you want to.
@@Clashing0Ninteresting how you formulated that question without addressing the service level agreement which is the point of Patreon. Very easy way to make someone look like a dick. I’m still paying to support PT (are you?) I’m just pointing out an area of opportunity for PT.
Sorry about that chaps this was a scheduled upload for Sunday PM and it had slipped my mind!
Rock/bash guard for the Santa Cruz down tube area next please
That's an easy one to do with modelling wax to make the mold. No 3d printer needed!