Press subscribe for more dating truth bombs. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:24 Vincent’s Incredible Writing 04:45 Why Simping Doesn’t Work 10:26 What Does it Mean to be a Man? 16:48 Defining ‘Dark Gentlemen’ 25:50 Why More Men are Single than Women 34:27 Impact of Eugenics in Dating 41:32 Reality of the Gender Wage-gap 47:50 How Casual Sex Misinforms Long-term Relationship Goals 54:09 Should Humanity Return to Polygamy? 1:01:40 The Disney-fication of Relationships 1:14:06 Can Female Competency Be Detrimental in Dating? 1:18:06 Should We Take Marriage More Seriously? 1:24:12 Dealing with Fringe Groups in Society 1:29:13 Where to Find Vincent
In regards to your comments about no red pill for marriage @1:21:53. There was once a sub reddit/forms for that. I'm sure it got deleted and only exist in archives. You should have Rian Stone on your podcast. He's was active on said forums.
38:15 But are women really worthy enough to pass the genes of those Mens...???... Who will conduct those type of things... Judging on appearance,looks will definitely fail. Everyone have special skills Some time devloping a skills take a time.. Some of Males electevely opt out themselves from celibacy...some dies early due risk of work environment. People like Nikola Tesla. They are genious. It doesn't matter. If you born developed and transform yourself. Increase critical and logical analytical thinking.
I wanted to answer your testosterone question. The reason violence decreases in males regardless of testosterone after 27 is because the corpus callosum has fully connected the two hemispheres of the brain and can regulate and impede the more primal desires. Men below this age have higher testosterone but less empathy because the mechanism isn’t fully formed. The corpus callosum in women is formed faster because when you have a screaming child demanding your attention, empathy is beneficial. Hope this helps.
@S ess Yes. The corbus callosum is like usb hub that sits in between both hemispheres and grows throughout development. The two hemispheres of your brain take in information and see the world in completely different ways. The “hub” helps to regulate sensory data. If I removed the corpus callosum and covered one of your eyes and showed you the picture of an apple and asked you to tell me what it was, depending on the eye I covered the sensory data that carries the electrical signal cannot reach the hemisphere that governs language. You would know what it was, but couldn’t tell me. Another cool thing I discovered is that the two hemispheres govern the muscles don’t each side of the body. When you look at your hands they appear to be the same tools, there not. When you think you place your left hand to your face and your fingers will perhaps explore your face because the hemisphere of the brain that governs exploration controls the left. You strike and grab with your right because the hemisphere that controls the right hand is governed by the other. When you play guitar, the left explores the fretboard the right beats the rhythm. You may be wondering about those that are left handed, that’s a long conversation and I’ve already waffled on. But yes women are more empathetic, but also because of oestrogen and the differences in hormone rewards systems between men and women they can be more agreeable to their own detriment.
@@peymanj3456 I'm sorry, do you know more information than these two men? They probably referenced about 80 studies during this chat; these are not uneducated men, even if they don't align with your views.
A bigger problem is just lack of community, dating should come about naturally after getting to know someone within your sphere of influence. dating apps and cold approach just seems unnatural, you dont even know the person, theres more fear she might say yes than no for now you need to go on a date with this person you know nothing about.
Must be a factor. I know several couples that probably wouldn't have gotten together based on a few dates, but they did become a couple after years of knowing each other as friends.
Cold approach didn’t used to be unnatural though . I remember growing up and cold approaching women was a common thing to do. It wasn’t creepy or weird at all and most women enjoyed it as well. I’m shocked that the modern generation are so weirder out by cold approach. It literally kills your odds of meeting women
Yeah man. It takes some of the pressure off. Women will come with their "These are my HARD REQUIREMENTS. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS" lists which are just to widdle down the barrage of dudes asking her out and miss possibly every guy that she wouldve been satisfied and at peace with. I suppose peace and satisfaction is admittedly NOT what a lot of women want however.
Sort of agree. It's one thing to know your people sort of and know you'll (have to) marry one of them and have a resonable gauch to who would work and so on and ask that person who you'r already friendly with to asking a stranger. Also eliminates the stranger danger factor.
He didn't create that terminology. That's what those words meant... and he got it wrong anyway. A geek is hyper intelligent in a field that requires it. Math geek. A nerd is someone who is obsessed with a particular field over and above whats considered normal but has no link to overall intelligence. A D&D nerd. A dork is someone who exudes cringey behaviour, especially in regards to social interactions. A nerd.
@@lliamthrumble Sorry pal, you got it wrong too. According to google a dork is someone socially inept. The term can also mean D**k or sometimes "lovable dork". Geek and nerd is similar while the geek is more the collector and timely, while the nerd is abstract and timeless. Scientists are nerds, enthusiasts are geeks and markiplier is the most lovely dork on the planet.
"You have an ever increasing group of high performing women competing for an ever decreasing group of ultra high performing men." Thats the dating world in a nutshell
It’s a fascinating dichotomy, and it’s filtering down, waitress’s and women with no jobs are chasing the high status men now too. Entitlement and narcissism
I feel trapped too. I met my husband at college before dating apps. That's when you had to go up to someone and ask them out and take a shot of courage. He committed suicide after quitting a job and struggling to find another. I have been forced to date again and this time use the apps. I am disgusted. I hate it.
I think entitlement is a big problem in dating. People feel entitled to a relationship and look at other people as resources for their consumption. When I started dating, I fell into that mindset as well. No one is perfect and life is not fair. Just do the best with the cards you have been given and become the best version of yourself possible. Focus on self improvement and don't worry about the rest.
YES. There is little "hmmm, what can i build and contribute to a life with this person" kind of thinking. It's all, "I put on a bunch of makeup and jacked my t!ts up in this dress, what are you gonna give me?"
Online dating apps only fuel entitlement. If you are above average looking then you won’t run out of options . This leads people to look for the ‘perfect’ one which doesn’t exist Social media is great but also terrible at the same time
I never liked those label ever since it's conception. Alpha, beta, Chad, Stacy, etc. I grew up in the 90's where labels where few and far between. You got Jocks, goths, nerds, losers, winners, homewrecker, hoe, Republicans, Democrat's, asians, etc. Now we have street queens, hot girl summer, incels, alpha male, beta bucks, and countless more if you include the pronouns. Now everyone can stereotype everyone easily, completely more segmented society. Miss the 90's where you where mostly just you as an individual. Now people have so many predijucses they judge you base on anything without second thought. Auto-hate
Literally, one of the best conversations about the current dynamic between men and women. This is exactly what I’ve been telling people. You cannot take the biology out of us and what men and women find attractive. I think men are going to rise to the occasion, but I still think they won’t be high enough for the average woman who wants the top 10% of men. We shall see what happens next. I do agree it’ll get worst before it gets better.
The problem is deeper than that. Even low-to-average valued women expect guys that are way beyond their standards. If we were to take the rule of 6 that many media magazines have put out; taking for example a woman's attraction to a guy over 6' and a guy making 6 figures.. The percentage of guys over 6' is 14%; the percentage of guys earning 6 figures is 8%. That is LITERALLY 1.12% of the male population. The 1% of the population will mostly go for the above average women...and remember those are only two variables. We need to reverse the psychological harms done by feminist narratives; it's not healthy to have unrealistic expectations and expecting Mr. Perfect and Prince Charming. At the end of the day, women have it harder surviving than guys; feminism has sent them into an abyss without them realizing. Will it get better? I don't see how when we see married women claiming to be 'independent'. Independent from whom? The same guys they want to be with? What a non-sense logic; males and females are dependent on each other.
@@hyedefinition1080 Those are USA statistics, you can't apply it to the damn world, that's way bigger than USA. Do all African women go after men who make 6 figures? If they find a dude who brings food to the table they are happy. Do all southern asian women go after 6'+ tall men? A 5'3 dude will be taller than the majority of the female population and they are ok with it. Men making 6 figures and 6'+ tall are way more in Scandinavian countries, and they can earn that much cleaning toilets. Do all women want a Scandinavian guy? I don't think so. But these men get with women of all sizes, races and backgrounds while their "superior" Scandinavian women get pregnant of some nigerian immigrant so the child borns with a natural tan.
@@Sarablueunicorn ahhh, the USA is not the rest of the world argument. I agree, and never claimed it wasn't. And why is it irrelevant? What it does display is the desire and whether you like it or not: USA holds the current cultural hegemony. Which means, if you were to transplant people from Africa or Scandanavia, they will behave very similarly to the US population. So please take your anger and red herrings elsewhere.
@@hyedefinition1080 Totally agree. Feminism is ruining women's lives (including those that didn't ask for it tragically), wish there was a way to reverse this stupid radical shit. I'm not gonna talk about myself as I can't find one man whether average or below average that is willing to commit living in NYC - but I see my average or above average girlfriends settling for guys that are way below average - not 6 feet tall, not making 6 figures, sometimes wayyy older than them. You can tell they are out of their league but my girlfriends settle..I know it might not be a representative sample, but I've started noticing it a lot around me. I'm wondering what kind of trend that is. Gotta do more research and ponder on that for a second...
@@leilau how is it settling if your girlfriends are still dating up? Are you saying these old men are broke? Have no social skills? I dont understand what makes your friends deserve more?
It isn’t rejection that hurts. It’s repetitive, consistent, humiliatingly aggressive rejection of every variety that hurts. Year upon year of inceldom. You’d have to be an idiot not to recognise the signs. “You are not attractive or wanted!” it screams. Message received.
@@XxxX-wx3er better than an all out rejection. Average girls are at least somewhat desired by the HIGH VALUE guys but not in the way you exactly wanted. The average man would treat her right but she doesn’t give a fuck about the average guy. Incels aren’t even allowed through the door
@@strider-pubgmobile757 ok, so women don’t desire them, nature is based on natural selection. If incels wants women to lower their standards for them, are incels willing to lower their standards for women they don’t desire? There’s millions of single women out there, and to be fair you and the incels aren’t exactly kind about women, all this “hitting the wall”, comparisons to fridges full of sausages, all this anti-simping garbage, what makes you think women want to be around you men after everything that’s been happening in the manosphere lately? Would men go with a woman whose hit the wall? No they wouldn’t, so why should women go with them while in their prime. I mean men lose interest after sex and move on, I think men are only mad that women won’t let them use them, because all men dump you in the end.
@@XxxX-wx3er it’s not a competition and I’m capable of having empathy for other peoples unique situations. But since you made it a comparison, let me ask you how you think women would feel if they were rejected from the start? Let’s say a 5/10 woman. 22 years old. She flirts, asks out, hits on single men frequently and yet they all reject her, sometimes in as humiliating a fashion as they can muster. Say this goes on for years. Despite her best attempts, no one from the opposite sex will touch her. You’re suggesting that’s a better situation than being used for sex?
I've never put aside any time to pursue a relationship. I've spent most of my young adulthood trying to do well in school, so I've been out of touch for the past 4 years. What's going on now is just... wow. Almost all of my cousins are now divorced and I've decided I don't want any part of this. If I'm alone someday, so be it, that isn't something that scares me. Going to someone's funeral because he took his own life after a divorce, now that scares me.
There were many boys that stormed Normandy that broke down and cried, couldn’t go on. The fact that so many brave boys/men DID storm the beach is beyond comprehension. I will always be thankful for their sacrifice.
I’ll bet only a few would’ve made that sacrifice if they knew what America would be like today. That’s precisely why the military cannot meet recruitment requirements today despite huge signing bonuses.
There were also commanding officers who were ordered to shoot any soldier that turned back. Many of the men were conscripted. If men in both sides were allowed free will, thebentire conflict would have been much smaller in scale. Goverments litteraly forced most of those men to their deaths.
@@bradkindley That didn't happen very often in the US and Royal armies during WWII. By that time it had already begun in the US Army that only officers carried pistols as a tradition from the era of line closers, rather than the expectation they'd be used for their historical purpose. Only one US soldier was formally shot for desertion in WWII. The Soviets on the other hand executed a lot of their runners, but then they weren't involved in the invasion at Normandy. What drove those men to get out of those Higgins boats was the knowledge they'd all get shot like fish in a barrel by the Germans if they didn't at least try to get to cover on the beach. At least by getting off, they could try to fight for their chances of survival.
Birth control is a bigger technological disruption than nuclear energy. It's created so many problems and made sex worthless. It's screwing women most of all: soon half of them will be childless and without meaning into their old age.
@@taylorc2542 nah the biggest technological disruption was online dating and social media apps. Because it allowed women to only chase chads and suddenly men were competing in a global dating market place. The pill did make a difference but it didn't matter nearly as much as social media because even with the pill there was a balance between men and women having sex. Ugly men could still get laid if they were bold, brave and had impeccable social skills. Today, a bold ugly guy will end up in prison or get socially ostracized because women don't need to settle when they can get chad, tyrone, rodriguez with the push of a few buttons.
Love this conversation. Thank you! Since you asked us ladies, I have no problem telling a man if I am interested in him. It’s very rare for me because I am a reclusive artist and I love solitude so much. So when I do tell a man I am interested in him, it’s because I think he is attractive and inspiring and I can see how I can spend time with him joyfully. I get rejected because I definitely overdo it in expressing my attraction when I do. I am very masculine in my confidence levels and also very romantic in expressing myself and that scares men with good reason, they are terrified of being cornered into a relationship. Meanwhile they have no idea how scared I am of getting in a relationship with them. I don’t know if I can even be in a relationship anymore because I have been alone so long and I really need my solitude when I need it. The ‘pain’ of rejection is very short term, because I believe life’s rejection is God’s protection. I would rather be rejected than used and I think the men who rejected me respected me enough to reject me and I am grateful that they didn’t take advantage of my attraction to them to lead me on.
@KJ A 😂 WOW! Good Morning. You are really pissed off, at all of us. I don’t know what conversation you were listening to. There was nothing enraging, offensive or hostile about this conversation. Two men were expressing their honest impressions of relationship dynamics, based on things they have personally experienced, and/or absorbed from statistical and historical data. So what if a single man wants to mate more? That is his right, if he has willing partners. They are not hurting anyone by dating honestly. They are not depriving me of my freedoms in any way. I don’t have to agree with every behavior, thought, or characterization men possess to learn something about how they see the world we all live in. If my crime in your eyes is being genuinely interested in how men think and feel, and expressing gratitude that they are thinking deeply about their relationships with women, and sharing their views with us, so we can all understand each other better, then I am guilty and I do not apologize for it.
@KJ A You've used lots of words but you haven't said anything. Can you counter a single argument or position either man takes during the discussion? Can you offer an alternative that is more compelling? Many here are interested in the topic and would love to be enlightened. Please go ahead. Perhaps you could introduce us to a man of value with the qualifications necessary to interpret the data correctly?
Unfortunately his dismissive of poetry is deeply ignorant. The benefit of linguistics to our human nature is infinite and it’s one of the lost attributes of modern society.
Dark Gentleman!! Thank you for coming up with this term. It describes my husband exactly. I couldn't put my finger on what it was about him that makes him such a unicorn. As for leadership in a couple, I think the best approach is just having each partner take the lead on whatever it is they have a comparative advantage in. For example, I take the lead on our finances, travel logistics, social engagements, he takes the lead on vehicle and house maintenance, anything technology related, health records. We take turns taking the lead on chores depending on who's busy with something else that needs to get done. Every couple has a different distribution of skills. I highly recommend looking for a mate who has the opposite skill set as you. Makes for much easier cooperation.
I thought it was about sharing values and having similar dispositions not about opposite skills? Men aren't out looking for a distribution of skills. At least I'm not. There isn't anything I need help with hun other than basking in feminine energy. Modern society doesn't nullify inherent biological behaviors. Can she cook, can she handle children without abusing them, is she a good teacher, does she exhibit patience, does she have compassion for others, can she garden, can she organize household items and complete chores, can she please her man, does she like to serve? There is feminism and then there is feminine energy. Young women still have it before they're indoctrinated. Older, educated gals have lost it. You will call biology "sexism" when it's simply what men find attractive. What you find attractive is not what men find attractive. Looking for provisions, protection, strength, and technical skills are what women are attracted to not men.
An interesting conversation, thanks chaps. I must say I'm very glad I did almost all my flirting / dating / philandering in the previous century when one didn't need a lawyer and a psychiatrist in tow.
This part of some men not wanting to "put the effort in" rang pretty true for me. I'm generally pretty quiet, chill, and introverted. I don't mind spending time alone, so I don't feel so much pressure to seek relationships; however, when I do meet someone I'm intersted in I do "put the effort in". When that effort results in being alone again, it just seems like spending night after night out with them was not worth it. I could just spend that time making music, reading philosophy, playing video games with friends, which is way more fun, than trying to convince a stranger that I'm worth their time.
Consider making the dating process as fun for yourself as juggling knives... You don't do it for the other person, make it something that entertains you
@@yudy92 Exactly - life is too short to put yourself in a position where you have to entertain or prove yourself to another person. Fuck that. The moment you put yourself in that position, it's an unenjoyable uphill battle (I speak from past experience). Now I just try to do or say whatever I want and if they like it, great, if not, fuck off.
Better to have lost love then never loved at all. You’re forgetting the good times you had when you went out which is why you tried in the first place. Yeah it sucks when it ends but if you accepted that it will end from the beginning then you can’t have a negative view on it in hindsight.
Things I think they should have mentioned more of.. 1.) mental issues... how 2/3rd of women over 30 are on antidepressants or anxiety medication. Not to mention BPD, narcassicm, and bipolar behaviors.. in my experience those are very much a contributing factor to why im single. 2.) how its easier to replace a relationship than to fix a relationship these days. 3.) And how a lot of 20 years olds stink at communication.. such as ghosting.. and not willing to talk on the phone and really put in effort. 4.) How women are more overweight and obese these days than ever.. which a lot of men do not find attractive and yet women are told to think.. accept me for me.. and if a man doesnt like me for me being overweight, he isnt the one for me.. mentality instead of. Oh.. this is what men want? Let me lose weight then. Counter that with men.. women want tall...people cant change their height.. women want rich.. becoming wealthy isnt obtainable for everyone. A lot of it is luck based and who you know.. so impossible for men to change themselves and women could change themselves but choose not to. 4.) A lot of women have children in their early age. And thats a lot of baggage for when they get older after their failed trial run with relationships. 5.) People are so obsessed with finding red flags in people.. if you wanna look for things wrong.. you will find them and then abandon and no one is perfect.
I find this topic really interesting... i was just talking about how it seems the relationship dynamic between men and women has changed a lot in the past 60 years. I've been with my partner for 10 years and it seems like the whole dating situation has even changed a lot since then. Women are being influenced to act in more traditionally masculine ways. It's ironic that modern feminism endorses that message... to be successful, you must act more like a man. Yet, the patriarchy is bad for society and needs to be smashed?!
Very good point actually. I’ve been noticing how a lot of these new ‘woke’ ideas are actually extremely “white” ideas directly from the power source they claim to decry. They take over their minds and actually deepen how disenfranchised they are! All while eroding societal structure itself.. scary and interesting.
I've never read a feminist book saying act like a man to get to the top I've read critics of why women often feel they have to take on masculine traits to be in a high powered mostly male career. The purpose of feminism is to find a way to work that suits women better without losing their job eg a break for pregnancy paid leave. I've never read anything your claiming. What book and feminist did you read?
Basically these are the main factors behind our current state of relationships: - The internet has created an abundance of potential mate choices - Women have more options in terms of men and money and don’t want to commit unless “Mr charming” comes along - Men have withdrawn or changed their focus to video games, hobbies, study, career, or other forms of distraction rather than face the pain of potential rejection or the possible drama that comes with a relationship. - Other things like depression or anxiety etc hasn’t helped either
You missed a piece though. Those women sleep around with the chads, but then lie to the beta when they turn 30 and decide to settle down. This is a lack of ethics that women have embraced. The Chad wouldn’t bother with most women if she didn’t put out. And that would correct everything.
You two have a great mind for nuance. It's a blessing, in this day and age, to be able to enjoy long-form and thoughtful discussion, with thanks to the have minimal moral/ethical bias.
This is probably the most brilliant guest you've ever had. I'm so happy he pointed out that the limited idea that the man must be domineering in every relationship is not the end-all be-all to every equation. Both parties in a relationship should play to their strengths and take on roles, but they don't need to be limited by preconceived notion.
@11cacoo It doesn't work when women take the lead. It is innately built-in in her DNA to feel safe, so she needs to see the male as the protector, his natural proclivity. In some areas of expertise the woman can take the lead. It is not completely black & white.
In so many of these conversations regarding the dating market, and the current situation of very few men having access to almost all of the women, the inevitable violence and societal collapse that results is never brought up. Either people don’t know about this or are avoiding the topic. I was very glad to hear Vincent bring it up and for Chris to have his epiphany. This does not end well.
There is going to be no come-uppance or a violent upheaval. We have free weed and shrooms. Men will be fine. Boys who fail to become a "high value man" will work blue collar jobs and enjoy free 🦐 and jerk off and play video games in their spare time. I'm pretty sure professional lovers will also get legalised within the next few decades in most Western nations, if not, atleast some of the democrat states in US( "S3x work is real work" slogans). So there's that going on for them too. White collar workers(men) are the ones who should walk on egg shells. The elites will always be above the law, they can r_pe, m_rder and loot as they please.
@@garrusvakarian3451 yes we will move more to a police state and Chinese social score system but it won’t last , the technology that enables the modern world is fragile and we are going to dependent by far the most dangerous men are those brought up to hate themselves and we will have a lot of them , in addition what is internalised now and ends as suicide will at some point externalise . The future holds promise for health and science but the implosion of social cohesion will destroy civilisation long before global warming does, the discussion is brilliant but it misses the elephant in the room demographics! In a war you kill your enemy in the western world there is no need for a war just wait the western world is failing to replicate itself and no matter what you may think of that , it will of itself destabilise the western world . Well plenty of doom from me !! There is some optimism for medicine to be more effective but future is not looking good! Evolution does not like civilisation the deplorables get to reproduce to much .
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue. People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her. A lot of guys have never had that. This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that. The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow) Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society. What are we seeing in the west now? Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels. White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes. Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends. White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle. With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be toxic.
Worse thing is I don’t see how this problem can be ‘fixed’. What’s almost comical is this new pattern isn’t going to make women happy either long term. Sure, they might get a nice career going by the age of 30 or 35 but then what? Their “peak years” are gone What a depressing subject lol
I am 74. When I was growing up in Europe all a girl had to do was go dancing on Saturday and you would find a boyfriend. If he turned out a flop you got yourself another one. We had the opposite problem which was to find a way to deal with unwanted attention. But when that happened we were free to slap them or kick their a.. in a memorable creative way. The problem today is that there are no more dances and I think that happened by liberal design. Lonely people are easy to control. So they made dancing unavailable and something to be frowned upon. But it was an incredible way to get to know someone in close contact. There are rules in dancing how to. The boys knew how to touch a girl respectfully in a gentlemanlike manner and both enjoyed simply moving together according to the music. I was a teenager in the wild sixties and seventies. But while dancing everybody agreed automatically on the special code of conduct and knew where the "don't cross" line was . It is amazing what you learn about someone you dance with. It's a great stress relieve and dancing people always smile. Stop talking, use your influence, move your a.. and bring dancing Back!
I would literally sell my least favorite sibling to have grown up in the 1960‘s and 70s. Thanks for the painful slap of nostalgia for a world we‘ll never experience🥲
@@evaphillips2102 In case I get real rich I will start a foundation bringing back dancing. No kidding. I also will start another one to fight for clean advertisement and make it against the law to use exclusively images of women to advertise age related problems, weight or appearance issues.
With how superficial women are nowadays, I doubt it would help guys(especially below average looking ones) in any way, shape or form. I would also like to know if average/below-average women in that era only dated good looking men, who were top 10-20% of the social hierarchy and also felt entitled to such partner just cause one of these men slept with them? If something similar were to happen in today's era, really few women would actually come for such dance and would prefer going on a one night stand with some social media model. The only woman who will come to such dance would be women past their prime, who aren't able to get such men to sleep with them and are actively looking for a provider after leading the casual dating life style, which a man with self respect finds disrespectful and a deal breaker
@@user-nq5hy7vn9k All women found a guy back then, not just the pretty ones! In the US with no socialist programs a man has to be at least a provider! You can be one in so many ways today. I know many women who are NOT looking for a top gun! If they were they stop that quickly when they hit thirty. I organized singles party for a while and women had to go on waiting list all the time because I would only do even numbers. It was by appointment only and admission (and a stiff fee!) were based on an one hour personal interview. People were begging me for more parties when I lost interest.
Dating market is exactly what it says. We reduced our interactions into balance spreadsheet and risk assessment. We forgot meaning of sacrifice, commitment, family, meaning etc. I feel how more and more detached from my mind is from my spirit. Surely it's only me.
@@ashleyboyd2764 That's because it's not just the internet. Modern transportation and communication technologies have totally changed the way our society thinks, all the way back to the early 20th century. People forget the first major rise in divorce rates (barring hard times like wars and recessions) in America was the 1950s, the era when television and telephones and personal transportation became commonplace. We can blame the apps all we want, but the way we relate to each other has been shifting for decades, the apps just seem to be accelerating processes already in motion.
I hope Vincent continues to write more, I think his writing and coming on the podcast are extremely beneficial to people and I don't know what he's referencing when he says he can do more
Hi there, thank you for a wonderful podcast! Those are really important topics, and I’m glad that someone is finally opening up a discussion about this! As you’ve asked a POV on rejections from a fellow female, here’s what I’ve experienced dealing with rejection: Growing up in Russia, and in a family where the conservative gender dynamics are highly promoted (girls need to be submissive and feminine, while guys need to be proactive, decisive and masculine), I am very comfortable with men asking me out rather me initiating stuff. If anything, my flirting is always indirect, and mostly looks like ‘testing the waters’, and making small insignificant moves, that might trigger some action from a guy’s side. There’s been some situations where I tried making the first move, and ngl it made me highly HIGHLY anxious. And some of times - I’ve been rejected after putting myself out there. And oh gosh it hurt like a motherfucker, mostly because I felt that I already made an extra effort and step that I shouldn’t be taking, and portrayed myself as ‘desperate’ and ‘unwanted’ already. So yeah, Vincent’s idea about female POV was quite accurate, I would maybe just add that having to make the first move for me, and being rejected after making the first move really adds to the feeling of inadequacy, so I usually make my move by tilting the guys towards making the move on me:) and I really wish it was easier, and I could just make a move and feel comfortable with myself, even after a rejection. But, I still think that on average, a woman, who’s very proactive in dating is more frequently off-outing than not, due to ‘proactivity’ being more of a masculine feature, rather than feminine. But it’s just my opinion, and based on my experience.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I was curious what sort of things you do to tilt a man towards asking you out. I have practically no idea what that would look like. All the times I thought she liked me (invited me inside for a drink at 1am, for example) I was wrong and would get rejected.
Rejection is good spiritually speaking cuz your ego gets deflated your ego is your worse enemy and the funny thing you think is you your thoughts are not your thoughts and your ego is not you think about it watch the movie revolver with Jason staham
And if we read your slight hints wrong men end up in jail so we don't engage anymore, you can thank the feminists for that, And you don't think men feel the same way about rejection? Well thanks to feminism you better learn some game and get ready for more but eventually you will not feel as bad or you will stop putting yourself out there.
So basically it's, once again, female hypoagency. And putting the onus on men. Again. Yet we are told how much better and more emotionally intelligent women are blah blah blah. Enjoy your cats.
New to the dating market after two back-to-back long-term relationships for a total of nearly 25 years of being coupled. I’ve experimented with online dating ( if you want to call it that). I’ve been perplexed as to why major popular media has not exposed the farce of catfishing bots, professional solicitors and amateur onlyfans who are all try to monetize the dating market. I am just looking for a wholesome partner to share my life with.
I find it tremendously difficult just to find a recognition for the problem with modern dating. Most of the people from the previous generations I know are just numb to it, because it is no longer in their scoop of interest since they have already secured a relationship. And when it comes to women, they still follow the narrative of the stigma that patriarchy has inflicted on them in the past. In their minds it is still an ongoing problem and with almost every single woman I feel like we were rivals not fellow human beings who stand a chance of cooperating to raise a descendant. I believe that the idea of creating a society where both genders are supposed to be profoundly carrier oriented has an economical motive. However, I believe it has an opposite effect. It was in my primary school, when we were taught that a family is the fundamental cell of the society, hence the building block of economy. I have my own empirical experience. All of the colleagues that are older than me and have a family are much more willing to work long hours and have a greater ambition than me. I have no motivation to make a lot of money for myself. The result of this all is that I just want to leave this society and contribute as little as possible. I don´t know, it might be just me, but I would say it is happening in a much greater than individual scale.
You are one of the "beautiful ones" then. You should check out the mouse utopia experiment. Your reaction to society is typical of that outcome of that experiment, believe me when I say that your position is very common, there are many other many reaching the same conclusion.
Check out Aaron Clarey’s content. I think you’ll like it and he’ll certainly help you understand how to maximize your life and finances with that perspective.
If one has no intention of marriage and kids, then how much money do they need? I think research has shown that once you have enough to pay for the basic necessities, extra money doesn't really increase happiness to any significant degree. The bigger question would be, are you doing something you like?
Getting rejected over and over doesn’t make it easier, at least not for me. I still feel the sting of rejection just as strong the 100th time as I did the first time.
Yeah. Your grandpop asked like 5 women out before he found your grandmother. Now? You to ask like 100 women. Nobody is saying this, it's more physcology damning than it use to be. It's too much.
I think that for guys practice at rejection is pointless it's like practicing getting punched in the face it only makes it more certain that you'll be knocked out what does boost men's confidence and ability to handle rejection is his confidence in his place in the hierarchy of men and is not disappointed in his level
A big problem, I think, is that our current dating setup is not built to maximize the potential for men and women to fall for each other. Hookup culture means the high-value men can skip from woman to woman without committing, creating trust issues and frustration in those women looking for a partner, while lower-value men grow frustrated at not getting chosen. (In addition to the problem you mention with women getting a wrong sense of their own value). Men attack women for not understanding how "good" they have it because so many guys want to sleep with them - missing the point that typically, women are actually more interested in a long-term relationship and connection, and the sex isn't always that interesting to women (A guy friend once said to me "well, even bad sex is okay," to which I replied "no. just, no."). Yes, more and more women are having casual sex, but not as much as men, and they generally don't seem as interested in casual sex, as illustrated in those college studies where colleges with fewer women had more dominant monogamy, while hookup culture was more rampant in the colleges with fewer men. Clearly, women and men have somewhat different priorities when dating and picking "mates" - and that's okay. So to my point about maximizing potential: For a woman to asses a guy, she needs to interact with him and see him do things, move about, act, get a sense of his attitude. Dating apps, first-dates and clubs aren't a good place to do this because it's not a prolonged environment - and thus women will only accept very good-looking men because, well, it's all they have to assess them with. Meanwhile, the high-value men need prolonged contact with women to actually start to develop a "you're more than sex" interest, which they were forced to in the past when they had to marry in order to have sex. (Why WOULD he develop that more-than-sex interest when there's the next lady around the bend of the next swipe? Throwback to Chris' conversation with Louise Perry). If the fuck-boy can't exist because women gatekeep, but actually have to become productive participants in the dating market, then the high-value men get taken, and lower-value men get their shot. Imagine the difference it'd make if all women collectively decided not to have sex until after having dated for three months. (Emphasis: I'm not blaming anyone who has sex earlier, I think there's a lot of pressure on women to be promiscuous, and also, if that's what they wanna do, go do it, it's a free world. But I think many women would naturally have sex later in a relationship than they currently are if the pressure wasn't to have lots of sex. I certainly felt a lot of pressure to "not be a virgin" back in high school.) For all those reasons, the easiest time to land a partner is during education - you have prolonged interaction with the opposite sex in a setting where the emphasis isn't constantly on dating. So we have to try and create spaces for the sexes to interact on a casual basis after education. Imagine if we all went to some low-key dance event every Friday. Like, no/little alcohol, just a bunch of dancing, and perhaps some rehearsed dancing so that you know what to do and WOMEN KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. I swear, a big problem in clubs today is the uncoordinated dancing, because as a woman you never know if a guy is going to try and grab you, and even though he's simply trying to escalate - and indeed he must to get anywhere - it's such an uncomfortable situation to have a man you don't want near you try to put his hand on your waist. It's so invasive. And honestly, even if you're interested in him, a lot of women will still feel it's moving fast. I have a personal theory that women will also not dance with an approaching man not necessarily because they wouldn't be interested, but because the pain he would feel if she later rejected him and the uncomfortableness/fear of having to do so is too much. Aka. rather let a man down early than allow him to escalate things and then having to reject him or end up in a potentially uncomfortable/dangerous situation. All my girlfriends sigh and giggle at the dancing scene in the BBC Pride and Prejudice where Elizabeth and Darcy dance. It's intense and romantic, even though they barely touch. And note how the dances were created so that you could talk while you did it, but you still had to do enough that you could be excused for not having a very engaging conversation. We need those kinds of collective events where single people can meet again. Where you can get to know each other at your leisure over a period of time, and where the pressure isn't constantly to find a partner. Another thing that happens in those environments is that men and women will cheer each other on. "Go get him/her." But in the age of tinder, everyone is in competition with everyone. All of these musings are from someone who has blessedly never been in the modern dating market, but I've talked with so many frustrated friends and family members that it really concerns me to see so many people from both sexes be such great people, yet frustrated because they can't find a partner. The game is broken, guys. For BOTH sexes. And we need to fix it.
That's a great analysis. The modern dating market is extremely confusing and negative. I'm an asexual male, zero motivation for sex. My energy gets focused elsewhere. Projects, inventions and so forth. I really dislike the notion now all longtime single men have entitlement issues and act on society. Sometimes there's no red or black pill, no MGTOW, incell or hate for anyone. The assumptions, hate, and accusation is crazy on all sides.
Dang this was an incredible comment! I love it! This is great conversation and totally true. I never thought about the woman's side of clubs and the pressure involved with turning guys down. I love what you said about the dancing and talking. That is so true! I wish we never screwed it up because we are all missing out on a good time. There was so much in your comment to think and talk about. Thanks for writing all of that. You have my brain going now.
Those casual environments do exist outside education. They’re called hobbies. And travel. Really as a dude the hardest part I’ve had was getting a foot in the door. But it’s really not that bad as people make it seems. I’m even 5’6 and half Mexican so like. Sure there are a lot of women that wouldn’t give me a chance out of the gate. But I’ve always had a great time with the ones who did. Now I’m in 30’s and am constantly moving around and living in/visiting different countries and idk. I guess it’s different in the states right now I’m not sure. I guess if you’re successful, confident, and generally fun to be around you don’t have as many problems with women. Even if you’re a short king like me. Just be a good person ya’ll. Be the best version of yourself, build value in yourself and you won’t have a hard time in the dating world because you’re not looking for the validation. You already have that from yourself. So if someone wants to be with you, right on, let’s get this show on the road. If you don’t want to be with me, right on - the show is still going on the road though haha. This bus is leavin with or without you, sis, and there’s always someone else that wants a piece of what I’ve got going on. Idk. I’m just saying dating isn’t that bad of a time. Right now I’m looking for something a little more long term because I’m looking to marry in the next 10 years. But I’m looking to get promoted this year and there are still more places I want to live in. Ramble ramble Those casual scenarios do exist for people when start looking past relationships for their personal fulfillment outside of relationships. This video doesn’t talk about how many people are legitimately uncomfortable or unhappy if they’re single and constantly feel like they need someone else.
Great comment! Law of Pareto seems to prevail for the promiscuous, but how many are truly happy navigating through contemporary dating? Was sad to hear of the demise of public dancing in my home town in the 1960s. Dance studios still put on well attended dances for their membership, but the catchment is smaller and the demographic a lot older.
There are reasons that there was huge opposition to the sexual liberation movement by older folks. The normalisation of sex outside of marriage was always going to lead to these perverse outcomes. Both genders were incentivised to marry to meet their sexual needs. This kept the top 4% of men somewhat in check. It was better for women because on average they were after a stable relationship more than sexual gratification anyway. Studies show that men want to marry virgins and that women tend to be more sexually gratified the less partners they have had. Literally the only people to have "benefited" from sexual liberalisation are the top 4% of men.
Actually the percentage of playwrs as well. Some men dont have a purpose. Their only purpose in life is sexual gratification and they get that by getting free sex
On the topic of rejection: Every woman deals with rejection a different way. As for me, I have always been straightforward with the few guys that caught my interest. I give very clear signals to a guy that I like him, including telling him upfront. Then I would lean back and wait for him to make the next move. This is my self-preservation and "hurt-protection" strategy in a sense that I would rather suffer the hurt of rejection now when it's in the very early stages and not too emotionally invested yet. It will take time for me to get over my feelings for someone I really like. But the fact that they do not feel the same way and I know about it right away is enough consolation for me that we were not meant to build a life together. This knowledge always helped me move on from someone faster and get on with my life.
Great discussion! Thank you for sharing it! I got taken in by the notions of third wave feminism in my youth, and it took Jordan Peterson to wake me up before it was too late. I'm beyond grateful for that. I think nowadays more than ever we like to live in a happy fantasy land about relationships and life in general, rather than assessing reality and then acting accordingly. Your talk about suffering and achievement was my favorite part. Thank you!
I like how Chris is actually asking tough questions and for further elaboration into the data or concepts vs simply bashing one gender or the other. Men and women need each other. And even as women make more, in large urban cities, one salary is simply not enough anymore unless you're in the top 5%. Top 10% is middle class for many of the US coastal cities.
Yep. Without active men, a society that exists will die, or a society may not have a place to exist. Without women society doesn’t grow or doesn’t even exist
@@reubenmorris487 statiscs show there are as many single men as women. But men are more likely to be single from the age of 18-50 while women are likely to be single after the age of 50. This happens because men don't settle before having their life together but they definitely don't want to stay alone in their older years. Majority of marriages end up in divorce and women don't seek marriage or relationships while men tend ro re-marry. Women want a partner for the purpose of procreating and the average woman ends her fertile period at the age of 50, without being able to procreate a woman has no interest in finding a partner, especially if she has her own means of subsistence. FACTS. Women who didn't have children will call it a day and adopt a child or some pets, women who had children will rather invest their resources in their children anf grandchildren than in another man they won't procreate with.
Imo it’s not even just about money as a resource, it’s *time*. Anyone working 8+ hours a day just wouldn’t be as accessible to a child on a daily basis, in comparison to a 2-parent household, no?
Love the conversation. Nice work, Chris. Woman here. I had about zero success making the first move. It was rare (I'm married now) that I would approach someone who was not already showing interest in me. I didn't feel so terrible being rejected because I knew it was a long shot and you could say I did it for experimental purposes only. The rumors are true: Men prefer to make the first move. AND, women are in charge of letting them know when they want to be moved on. I tried to stick with the ones where the attraction was already mutual; then: let them think it's all their idea, let him talk you into going out with him, let him "win." Smile, laugh together. Done.
Vincent is so right about courage. I've learned this as a man. Even as a young boy, even if you're bleeding, you get back up and keep going. You get up that hill no matter how steep it is to go up. You give your best no matter what. Thanks for sharing this info. God bless you both , Chris and Vincent!
I think part of the problem is there are so many relationship gurus on both sides either spewing non-sense or convincing people to behave in ways that aren't authentic to them!
Yeah. It’s all power games, not about connecting on a genuine level. For a lot of people, desire equals power and being desired equals power. In my opinion, love is easier than desire because there is more choice in it. Both men and women, hetero being the assumption, confuse desire and love in younger years and accept less from themselves (generally men, because our attraction/sense of power lives in our confidence, domination, effectiveness, skills, etc) and also accept less from others (generally women’s power lies in her attractiveness, cooperation, being receptive, being passive, accepting/rejecting, drawing in the world)- these of course are generalizations, but ones that are often taken as serious/given facts- these of course have nothing to do with vulnerability and communication skills and wanting to generally connect with another person. The ideal is to have both, obviously, but it’s easier to vie for power because connection implies a sense of powerlessness via the vulnerability it requires, and usually vulnerability keeps the focus on our personal flaws, insecurities, fears, etc., which we generally don’t like to look at within ourselves, let alone show someone else- so power games are played when the easier thing to do is break through that fear (a mile high, a mile wide….but no one tells you that it is actually paper thin) of thinking you can’t connect if you allow someone to see you for you. In reality, it makes your job easier, because if you are yourself and you like who you are, then people can reject you for their own reasons and you can go on about your day because you know they weren’t right for you or they would have stayed, connected, worked it out, etc. Also, therapy helps- gets you out of your own head….which is the whole point of why dating sucks today. We’re all too scared to take romantic risks and instead play power games to stave off the pain of getting hurt. But, love implies the risk of getting hurt, so, there is no point in avoiding vulnerability- except in that will give you the false idea that avoiding it (vulnerability) is self protection. When, in reality, avoiding it only keeps one from connection to self and others. No one ever says vulnerability is more powerful than domination, but it is.
I'm younger but have had some difficulty understanding too, I'm also from a smaller conservative community dating us not as tarnished as outside maybe, but outside of the participation trophy culture mindset. Where everybody thinks they deserve the best without doing the work...is this not just men that are not getting women using a platform to speak, and I mean has it always been this way and just now The forgotten men have a voice? I mean have women not always wanted strong, valuable men?
@@bettermanchannel770 you are absolutely correct. I did not have a good upbringing and I was not raised to be strong so that's a big challenge for me to overcome as an adult. I was raised by a mother who coddled but also manipulated me to doubt myself so that's what come naturally to me and I've come a long way but you might not realize how difficult it is.
@@mikecsernyik7360 definitely had a similar mother, she did what she thought was correct and the best she knew, but actually did more harm in some aspects, very great woman in other aspects, just as flawed as the rest of us in other
This podcast is very appreciated! There are just too many videos that are talking about only one side, either male or female and this stream was just helpful have someone who is not bias to only one side. I think to solve our societal problems strong thinkers from both sides have to come together and try to get somewhere! Thank you very much Chris for this video!
I've asked out two men, and was rejected both times. However, the second guy would have said yes, I think, if he wasn't already in a relationship. Obviously I didn't know that when I asked him. I handled both rejections very well because I went into the situations expecting rejection. "Hope for the best, plan for the worst". I sincerely wish both guys all happiness, and hold no hard feelings.
They rejected you because you over valued yourself. You are a 3 trying to date a 10. Problem is most women think they are a 10, when they are barely average.
@@khanhcao3123 men always have the same blanket argument that they think apply to every woman when it’s just a cope to not look inward or do any sort of personal reflection. Maybe you’re not getting picked cus youre ugly. Maybe it’s just cus you’re uninteresting or straight up creepy
G. K. Ghesterton “Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.” As a society we should be more careful of taking down the mores and traditions of the past.
The past sucked for women who were financially dependent on and could not leave men who were often terrible fathers and partners, hell spousal rape wasn’t even considered rape until like 30 years ago. Now women are independent and don’t want a relationship with a man who has unacceptable behavior, be it controlling, angry or narcissistic, who can’t pitch in his weight at home and who uses her as his personal assistant, house keeper, nanny and therapist. That is why it’s not surprising women initiate divorce more often or that single women live longer and are happier than married women. The opposite is true for men. Sucks for men, but we’re never going back. The mores and traditions of the past are what made billions of women miserable so we changed them, but instead of taking on equal share of relationship burden men sulk about women no longer being sexual pez dispensers and hunger for the good old days. It’s just sad. It’s like hungering to own slaves again. If you think it’s bad that you can’t have a live in sex-maid anymore just be aware this is why we don’t choose you.
@Peregrine86 Agreed. It's better for women and we're never going back. Nothing beats AUTONOMY . Young women are realizing this and are not interested in marriage, and many married women divorce. It's better to be alone than with an unsuitable man.
@@Peregrine86 Your comment made me actually look forward to an Islamic take over of society. Let's see how you feminist make out in that society...can you spell stoning.
Hypergamy has always been around, however with the increase in technology like online dating and social media, it's skewed the normal hypergamy standards so much that now even the average woman is only going for top level men.
@@plung3r They have fantasies but will definitely date average women . Most men don't won't Instagram woman . They just want a nice girl that attractive down to earth and nurturing . And most of all a woman that's not a slut with a insane body count
I’ve asked out a few men and the ones that said no were so gentle and so kind with me, it wasn’t all that painful. If the rejection was loud and belittling I would have been a puddle on the floor.
People are losing social skills - I speak as a teacher here. It is not just with the opposite sex or with anyone of potential sexual interest . People are merging with technology period.
If I had a dime for everytime a high level researcher and genius podcast guest cited Thomas Sowell as a basis for many of their logical underpinnings, I'd be super rich! Thomas Sowell is such a genius and national treasure and never got his due to his departure from the accepted narrative.
I think what is truly needed is education of the other sex and how to be in a relationship. Our perceptions are so horribly subverted by Disney, porn, the huge percentage of failed marriages we see and so much aggravation and suffering is either the partner not meeting your expectations or frustration at not knowing how to act yourself. The socially gifted can usually pick it up with a bit of experience but the less socially gifted or even those on the spectrum are going to have a worse time of it, especially if there's no example of a successful relationship in the home.
Yes, I agree that education is badly needed, but it’s difficult to formalise its provision: look at the mess already building in western schools and universities over race and gender identities: would you want the same educators training boys and girls how to be in relationships with one another? Better to push parents to explicitly discuss this with their own kids: all parents have their own flaws and biases, but at least the vast majority of them genuinely have their children’s best interests at heart.
@@stevec3526 let your child call you a misogynist and keep it pushing. Two things can exist. One can question why every woman has to play to the system while still creating a life that she enjoys in her own home.
@@stevec3526 if the person accusing you “matters” (e.g. family, teacher etc), politely ask them to clearly explain why setting male and female children up for successful relationships is misogynistic. If it’s your wife, inquire about what really attracted her to you in the first place: if she’s honest, the answer won’t be “he was a pushover”. If these are just random loudmouths throwing slander, their ill-founded opinions don’t matter, so just ignore them: that’s a chance to practise your own disagreeability!
A lot of this still pushes the "the guys are losers, the girls are fine" notion that is just untrue. OnlyFans shows how many pathetic men are out there but it's funny when Vincent who is a data guy doesn't go into the numbers of the Pareto principle and a massive amount of women only choose the ultra high level guy, hence the complaint of women having ludicrous standards. A lot of men are ledt out in the cold through no fault of their own but at the mercy of increasingly social demands of what's considered an attractive male.
Most of this dating content is gynocentric. The truth is, people do not give a single fuck about the wrongdoings of women. No one puts the onus on women to do pretty much anything. Women are taught how to treat their partners. Women are not told how to make themselves more attractive. Women are not judged for being slutty. The truth is, that even though men are not anymore responsible for any of this than women are, men will always get called out. People are not interested in hearing about anything that criticizes women at all.
Funny though is that many are still musing and mulling all over this. Pathetic men are pathetic men, anyone who has a backbone and grit can and will walk away.
Exactly this, I'm a woman and I'm disgusted at the endless impossible lists women who are dating give to theor partners without having net any of the criteria themselves, I sit a dinners watching women click their fingers and tap their wine glasses AT their men and the man must RUN to refill their glass at the snap of that finger, the men must be gorgeous, over 6 foot tall, must cook, must clean, must be university educated, must earn a 6 figure salary, must be masculine but in touch with his feminine side, must have no emotional bagge, must be interested in the same things/hobbies, must be nice, must be hug like horse, must be kind, must be generous, must...must must must must- and what do the women contribute? Mostly, they may be educated and work, and some put some make up on, but they don't contribute very much in terms of cooking/cleaning/treating their partner right, they think they "deserve" instead of reciprocate, you've got a 600 pound, short unkempt woman, who doesn't cook, clean, work, is a single mom, screaming and crying thay no man wants them. Women, nkw days do not reciprocate in the relationship and sexual dynamic of their relationship and lifestyle: they think just their presence and existence is enough- women are looking for husbands- but men are looking for WIVES too, you cannot possibly hold a man to higher standard than you hold yourself and attempt to "enforce" these standards when you don't live up to them yourself.
@@jeans398 - it's all over, Western civilisation is in terminal decline. Caucasian women are down to less than 1.4 children instead of a steady replacement of 2.1. Choose who to blame I guess, but Briffaults Law asserts the number of children born is determined by the women. Most discussions don't go further than be about the symptoms and social malaise and not how the 'lower' 80+% of men are just disposable resources; Western womenfolk (broadly speaking) are perfectly fine with that.
Storming the beaches of Normandy was not an individual decision. You get on the troop ship because your group is getting on the ship, not because, upon reflection, you determine that getting on the troop ship is how you are expressing mastery of your emotions to do what needs to be done. The same with climbing down the cargo nets and exiting the landing craft. You are doing what your group is doing because you are too scared to do anything else. Similarly, dating used to be a public, group activity. You dated, in part, because your group dated.
Great point I never considered even as I heard the analogy. Group dynamic and "doing something just because everyone else is" is so incredibly powerful to overcome individual fear.
That's a really interesting point. Internet dating literally puts dating on your own in your own home. Dances, village fates etc were group dating as well as others giving you the courage they might also introduce you to friends of their date
As a woman I can admit that being rejected can feel humiliating because we learn that men are supposed to generally want women, so it makes you feel that something is wrong with you. On the other hand, I really respect men who are not too easy to get, who have standards and self-control AND my attachment style is on the avoidant side (so I may feel a sense of security and relief when being rejected by strangers - which is probably kinda toxic 😅). ANYWAY, I loved this conversation. Super interesting 🙏🏼
Nowadays the most sensible thing for me is to avoid women at all costs. At work specially. They’re quite twisted and toxic in general. Life is so much brighter this way
you can´t deal with rejection like a man can because as usual we are better than you at everything. including moving on from rejections. you really are a 4th class citizen after children, men and dogs
I've adopted the extream avoidant style most men. Choose these days. I see a women, I walk the other way. LITERALLY. Ill exit an elevator just to avoid them. I can't speak for the whole country, but around here women. Are fat, lazy , toxic, and misandrus best avoided.
So much interesting stuff to dive into here. I've listened to a few of your videos now, and I really like how neutral they are. A lot of videos discussing these topics have a hard time not dipping into fundamentally blaming one of the sexes, so it's nice to see a more sober attitude.
Personally I think this is a complex issue. I'm aware that a lot of guys find it hard to get a girl on dating apps but as a girl, while sure I get a lot more messages, finding a guy who wants to actually date and will even follow through is the hard part. Most guys on apps just want sex and I'm more into dating. So what may seem like a great scenario for most guys is not so fun for a monogamous girl seeking a relationship. I think the main point of concern for men and women alike is that many people have given up on romance/love. But tbh casual sex doesn't have much appeal to me. I want a real connection with someone.
No offense but when casual sex is as easy as it usually is for women, of course at some point it's not satisfying by itself, you will end up craving for more affection and connection. It's human. You can choose to have a phase of casual sex, no dating, after a break up for example. It's not the case for men. It's the opposite, man have to be sexually opportunistic and if they were always honest about their intentions their smaller chances of having sex would be reduced even more. In men's sexual perspective, classic prostitution has always existed for sexual initiation and to compensate this sexual opportunity gap.
There are plenty of men who want relationships, you've more than likely run into them; I'd bet a good amount of money you weren't attracted to them for "reasons" (weird, nerdy, overweight, awkward, broke, bad haircut lol etc etc). Which is absolutely fine! But you can't turn a goodlooking turn a Chad millionaire into a husband. And the more variables you add to your "list" the rarer that person is. (every woman has a list). example (made up numbers) good hair 1/6 men; 6 figures 1/1000 men; college degree 3/5 men; religious 1/5 men; very attractive 1/200 ; 6 feet tall man in the USA 1/1000 - chance of having all 6 in 1 individual? 1/6 x 1/1000 x 3/5 x1/5 x 1/200 x 1/1000 = roughly 1 in 2million. What you want and what you need to make you happy are rarely the same thing. Wisest thing my parents taught me. Make a sensible list, talk to married couples and you'll quickly figure out what is actually important. You might even learn some skills you're lacking that are making you undesirable to men who want long term functional relationships. Worked for me =) GL!
Unfortunately for women dating apps have turned into an advantage for men. Historically the old conservative system was sex after marriage, which encouraged men to settle down early and women looked for productive partners which encoraged men to have skills and life plans. We now live in a liberal era where sex is pervasive and has in fact become 'masculine'. That is to say as a man if I want sex I hit a few buttons on my phone and effectively order it via a 'dating' app. That's where my needs end, as does the interaction.
@@limoncr5205 exactly. Even if the majority of the guys a woman chooses are only into sex, therefore the chances aren't that high, at least she has a chance. Most men don't have the slightliest chance to bond in any way...
This entire conversation scares the shit out of me. I live in a really small town too so it’s even worse. I feel so hopeless and depressed about the lack of meaningful relationships not just in my own life but around me. Useless guys and hyper disagreeable single moms everywhere
Here's a thought. Woman will clearly show if they are interested in a guy even if social norms dictate he makes the first move. If he can read these obvious signs and approaches her, he won't get rejected at least at first. After that it's about vibe and compatibility which is complex and multi tiered. Perhaps some guys are not happy when they understand that the woman who are actually interested in them are less attractive than they were expecting, ignore them, and continue to get rejected by woman out of their league. Some will actually get a woman they think is out of their league but realize soon after they carry a lot of esteem and mental health issues and it doesn't work out. Maybe the self esteem movement made people think they have way more available choices than they actually do, and evolutionary biology will continue to burst their bubbles.
Woman here 👋 rejection hurts for us too and is far more motivating than this conversation gives credit to - however, the rejection that is most motivating is intrasexual. Many of these women who can’t get a boyfriend bc they’re going for the wrong guys AREN’T happy about being single. But what are they going to do? The pressure they perceive from other women and society is so strong that it’s virtually impossible to fight it. Hypergamy certainly plays a role here but it only answers part of this question.
In order to get rejected you have to approach and break the ice. Standing in the corner and seeking eye contact and calling it "game" is far from taking a risk and approaching. Most women don't have the guts or are brave to approach a man. Also don't blame society and others. Just take accoubtibility for being less of a independent thinker and having a more sheep mindset and not a lone wolf mindset. There are alot of biological facts behind why women are less of independent thinkers
Yeah, the amount of married women that approach me willing to drop their current husbands is astounding, and you want to blame it on peer pressure, that society is pressuring them to be so incredibly immoral that they would treat someone they've promised to love for eternity like trash because your friends think you deserve better. wow you think that's okay? i don't.
Fundamentally, the issue we have today comes down to Socialisation. Women are now being socialised to become masculine and men are being socialised to become feminine. If you can reverse that then you might see a return to equilibrium.
@@lennard5393 Feminist are subconsciously forcing this one,while so many boys are niw being raised by single mothers who are simply incapable of instilling "manliness " into them,in turn making them much more feminine. Why do you think there are so many men watching only fans,butthurt incels who simply are incapable of changing for better, etc.?
"Get Woke, Go Broke" started with people noticing that "woke" movies where consistently under-performing at the box office. To be more specific, movies that were remakes of former more traditionally troped films.
"You are assuming the premise that a movie is made for profit motives as its primary goal, are you so certain that that is a true and valid premise." Very good point; just had a similar discussion over lunch.
Great talk between the two of you. I'm a man in my 30s that hasn't even tried to start a family. This does not embitter me but it hasn't been made me psychologically healthy even when I try to ignore it. I seriously don't know how to play the game...
Same. I'm almost 30. I have not been in a relationship ever. Now that I have a good job and stability, I would like to, but How to even start? I have no idea.
I’m in my early 40s and in exactly the same situation as you. What I’ve done is started to work on my side hustles and make myself busy by creating products like books and online courses on topics that interest me. The revenue is slow (and small) so far, but I am living off my savings from my last job. The reason I quit my comfortable (and high-paying job) is because there was no point in working harder and harder when I have no family to support, and very minimal living costs. To me, it was a no brainier to spend my time doing what I enjoy, and hopefully create a business out of it. My thoughts are that if I meet a nice girl, we can date etc, but I will not risk my savings and assets by getting married. When you live in a no-fault divorce world, this is a very stupid decision.
I came up with a healthy attitude about marriage and family when I was a little fella eating my Cheerios: "I don't wanna get married 'cause I don't wanna get divorced!" The family and marriage game is rigged against men through the legal system.
It's frustrating when the "incel" subject comes up, because it's always linked to those two people who weren't actually apart of a group, any other frustrated/dysfunctional male, and violence. Comparatively, as if no other loosely or directly associated group actually commits or promotes violence and is socially sanctioned or omits its actual the pervasiveness, such as "kill all men". Then the "No true feminist" rhetoric comes out But let's avoid that discussion as much as possible. "That (insert threat narrative) group over there is a much easier target." Those two guys are Alek Minnasian and Elliot Rodger. Both were autistic, socially dysfunctional, one of them were already violent before news coverage, and the other heavily bullied. One of them, showed no evidence of being on incel forums. Meaning, people hear made up stuff, don't verify it, and run with it out of the conveniences of that supporting a social scapegoat. Kind of like the actual Norse mythology of Loki as a scapegoat). Of the two, on became a child of sudden divorce and got a neglectful step mother. But lets avoid that entirely, there's no trend of violent dysfunctional adjustments in the millions across generations that comes from that. He claimed he was a member of the "encel movement", but there was no evidence of such claim other than him stating so. Dead give away is incel forums isnt a movement andis a coping group, ironically, they/no one wants to remain in. People ran with it anyway. By that standard, anyone who claim to be member of group is automatically a part of that group, right? Inversely, as long as someone doesn't claim they or someone else is member of a group, that also must hold true. We damn well know it doesn't work that way with the propaganda streams and threat narratives for the common accepted scapegoating abound. Don't we? Or at least to the degree people allow themselves to omit those thoughts. He committed suicide by cop, which seems to be the MO of those who leave a manifesto behind before they unalive themselves. If he did so in a silently hotel bathtub no would have heard of this guy like many men eventually do in silent despair, that'll also go on omitted from public discourse. The other guy was bullied to the point he snapped. So basically, he's in line with most mass shooters, but due the culture of Canada he didn't have a gun, he had a vehicle. Uh oh, ban all assault vehicles. None of is taken seriously, it's all a mass superficial bandaid to hide festering wounds of inconvenient truths and pass on to the next generation.
The problem is that somehow the majority of people still flip it on the same incels and tell them its their own fault, when its both men and women who mock and ridicule these so called incels to the point of drooping out of society
Tbh I didn’t even know any of those details until you laid it out here, and now it frustrates me even more that society can just slap someone with the title of “incel” and all of a sudden conversation about *what exactly happened* halts as we can just say “oh ok he was just an incel, he just hated women”
Brilliant Episode! Apologies for the Essay, lol. I am really glad to see these topics approached and spoken about by more and more men looking to help other men and women. These false, idealistic narratives hurt men and they hurt women as well. The men keep making mistake after mistake with women, convinced it's their fault that they can't get it right. In reality they have been lied to so much about women that they cannot tell which way is up or down. Feeling lost, angry for being lied to, guilty, and eventually so depressed they give up on women and society or worse... The same for women. They hurt themselves. Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain and thousands of unnamed men and women who may have never felt anyone cared about them and suffer in their loneliness ... alone. The women eventually end up alone as well. Forever not understanding why men don't want to get married or have relationships with them. The anxiety and depression hits them around their late 20's and early 30's. Not realizing that casual sex with dozens and even hundreds of men may not be good for them. Cheating on every boyfriend and girlfriend they had and killing their ability to pair bond and form long lasting relationships. Just keep chasing the next sexual high like any other addiction. The women turning to more addiction like boxed wine for breakfast and way too many cats. Often on every dating site treating men like a shopping list to be checked off at the man store and not seeing men's humanity. Not as a person but, as a thing to be purchased. Why would any man want that? What is in it for him to have a relationship or a marriage with someone like that? Then always saying "Where have all the good men gone?" The men don't want a relationship with someone who treats them as a thing less then human. The very same women end up on every pharmaceutical drug from companies happy to "cure" their depression, for a price, to help them continue being so "Strong and Independent" with there new "Freedoms" (Responsibility with consequences) filled with tens and often hundreds of thousands in debt. There is no freedom in being broke and poor. The men turn to drinking, video games and "The Pron" wink wink... With these videos, there is atleast a chance of waking atleast some people up. Letting both sexes see how truly harmful these ideologies and false narratives, created by the most bitter of women and encouraged by the very weakest of men, really are. That it is causing the misery in their lives... If one video provides hope for a way out of this mess and saves a man or women from checking out early, then please make more.
As a woman, I’ve been rejected and it doesn’t feel good. But, you tell yourself what you need to in order to bounce back. If I got rejected as much as a man gets rejected, I honestly don’t know if I would bounce back. Men have it way more difficult to maintain their self esteem while constantly getting rejected. Maybe there needs to be a mindset shift? That rejection isn’t bad, it’s just part of the natural order of things for my men? Btw- as a woman, I hate to see so many men lose their spirit when it comes to dating… This isn’t good, for society, or for women, or for future generations. I’m glad this podcast exists, we need to talk more about this topic.
@@valentingartner3793 all types of ways, clubs, parties, even online dating presents situations where a woman can get rejected. A guy can ghost you or not text/call you back. I’ve slept with a guy once and then he stopped talking to me afterwards. Feeling rejected is subjective, everyone experiences it differently.
@@smitty1919 he stopped talking to you afterwards? that’s just horrible, absolutely disgusting. Why did you end up sleeping with each other? By “how did you approach?” I actually wanted to know what exactly you did and said. When it comes to approaching and getting rejected, women don’t seem to get what we mean by that. To us approaching explicitly means going up to a stranger you’re attracted to, introducing yourself and making your intentions clear "Hey what’s up? My name is … I thought you’re cute so I want to get to know you better." If she then either ignores you or tells you to get lost, says she’s not interested, pretends to have a boyfriend, starts asking you embarrassing questions or just laughs at you; that’s what men mean by “getting rejected”.
@@valentingartner3793 I think that kind of cold call approach can seem creepy, it has to be done right. Starting up a conversation naturally works better. Hence why guys like to have cute dogs, because women will come up to you and ask about your dog. I also think woman are more open to this dating approach if you two are part of a shared activity, i.e games at a bar or meetup events.
@@smitty1919 women attending those kind of shared activities are always taken; I don’t get how telling someone you like them can be seen as creepy. That’s just beyond me.
There's a reason the culture surrounding relationships was so rigid in the past, that is with things like arranged marriage and men and women being introduced to people within family or friendly circles. It was less common and generally frowned upon for men and especially women to "date around" back in the day, and generally this lead to more marriages and family's forming which is ultimately good for the continuation of a civilization, I think. The internet and more freedom in general has destroyed this culture though, which is why things are falling apart. Mortar is a rigid substance, it's not crumbly or fluid, and once it does begin to break down and crumble it jeopardizes the integrity of the entire structure.
because giving women the option to chose who they want to date or marri will have them fail 99% of the times. Arranged marriages worked way better than what we have today, women are choosing the "chad's and tyrone's" and giving them babies and those dudes don't want to commit to just 1 woman so unless the option of choice magically disappears things are not going to turn out for the better
Ultimately, Dostoeyevsky characterized it best, live a MEANINGFUL life not a HAPPY ONE. Happiness is fleeting, if you spend your entire life chasing happiness you'll be miserable bc life has its hardships. Live a meaningful life instead, you wont get what you want all the time, you wont be happy all the time, you will suffer at points, but you'll be able to carry on
Civilisation is actually dictated by a bipolar system of traditionalism and progressivism. History isn't a straight line, but rather a circle, in which we shift between the poles of traditional society and progressive society. Human beings are curious in the sense that we are astoundingly capable of creating systems which contradict our more primal desires. Notice how something like an arranged marriage has to be deliberately "arranged" or to be more blunt, enforced? By contrast, if people are left to their own devices, things always seem to devolve into chaos where the women are seeking, by their majority of numbers, nothing more than the most physically attractive and domineering men (the top percentile) while leaving the rest of society's men in the dust. This is the kind of situation we might expect in an uncivilised environment. But there is a problem when human beings are able to live on the fruits of civilisation while not contributing to it, which leads to its downfall. We cannot simply have our cake and eat it too. The whole point of traditional society and tradition in general is to maintain what is good after it was created, but exhaustion inevitably sets in and people rebel against the rigidity of tradition and just want to live their lives without regard for the consequences. Then, after society falls apart, we will return to tradition, bloodied and broken by nothing other than our own self-destructive lifestyles, realising that progressivism cannot sustain a civilisation and that traditionalism was right all along. And then even after that we will repeat the same cycle once again... And again... And again...
@@petemacquarie7961 I think there’s nuance to that. Not all traditions are beneficial (e.g. society at large believed the world was flat, Sun moved around the earth etc ) and you have to always question why a belief system is there, otherwise you just get authoritarianism. I see a lot of ‘nostalgia porn’ for the past these days with folks discontent on how things are in the present, but that is nothing new and the past is a lot less ideal then we often realise.
@@RedDevilStudio @Red Devil Studio don't misunderstand, I'm not saying we should try to stick with traditional society indefinitely (that's impossible anyway). This is why I describe history as a circle and not a line. We will invariably come to tire ourselves of tradition and also find some of them to be little more than baseless superstition, but the problem with that is that it causes us to throw it all in the bin eventually. There is no right or wrong system for us when "right" and "wrong" both come to mean entirely different things as history progresses.
This conversation is so good. I was going to leave a comment about rejection and then you both asked for the women to comment about rejection. Anyways I’ve asked a few men out even when I was in high school I asked out my crush and he said no and I always thought afterwords that was a rush, like that felt good and you know the worst thing that could happen was he said no. I don’t know I just never took it personally. And if I hadn’t told my husband I was into him who knows how long it would have taken him. You don’t get what you want if you don’t ask.
@@sunkillsmoon yeah can definitely ruin our lives.. I usually don’t approach if they dont even make eye contact. But with the ones that do i still iffy about it. Cause a man in this country is always looked as the bad guy no matter what
@@sunkillsmoon On behalf of my gender I would like to apologize. I know there are a lot of messed up women out there and I get so embarrassed for how they act. It actually makes it harder for the good women to get asked out by guys because so many guys are so cautious nowadays because of these screwed up women. So these women make life harder for both men and women. What a time we live in.
The commenters on this are spot on. Us men fear not the rejection as much but what comes after. Girl gossips to her friends about you, calling you weird and creep and her friends gossip to their friends and next thing you know they're all laughing at you and your pictures because they don't find you attractive. It's F'd. Women are so mentally brutal. A man can kill a woman with his hands, a woman can kill a man with her words.
@@AmandaMG6 I’m not trying to date a grandma. Jokes aside how the fuck can a guy know what a “mature” woman looks like?? They don’t necessarily make themselves known, especially if it’s a cold approach scenario
I'm 6' 1" tall, dark hair, more hansom than average (I've had many compliments over the years of having a strong, attractive jaw line) and though I don't have a six pack or huge biceps I do take decent care not to let myself turn into an obese turd. I don't have any college degrees and I'm on the lower income end of the spectrum. All this to say I Never could catch a break with women and land a relationship. I could barely manage to get a date and I always took the initiative. After taking stock of my experiences, observations and what I could see and hear what other men were experiencing in marriage/relationships and learning about female nature, I realized the dating scene is basically hopeless. There seemed to be a general suspicion that anyone who isn't part of the top 10-20% of men doesn't have a realistic chance of finding a woman and furthermore that even if you do find one, that modern women are of such a low quality that they are now more trouble than they're worth and that the statistical risks/costs outweigh the potential benefits. At 26 years young I saw the writing on the wall, accepted the harsh reality and completely dropped out of the dating market. Part of me is sorry but I've got the feeling (especially when talking to other male friends who've been down the same road) that it's only sparing me from wasted time, energy, disappointment and heart ache as well as some potentially terrible, raw deals in the context of marriage. The state of the dating/relationships market is truly sad to see and yes it probably will have to get worse before it gets better. Only after enough pain and suffering has registered will society start to come to it's senses. I hope the future generations of young men and women can figure it out and get it right where we got it so horribly wrong.
@@dantesparda7719 he's right about this one. If your health is shit, your family life will be shit as well. It might be, that we die without family and/or children, but my last reward will be a healthy and natural end of my life, maybe in my castle with a group of playmates...😉 Joking aside! You guys have any idea, how many of these modern women will sit in nursing homes in 30-40 years?? This whole changing of the western society, dating, family, etc world will change also the old statistics! Women used to live longer, because since the industrial revolution home life was not that hard. I mean since when are we using washing machine, electric coocker, etc...? I don't want to be old and laying in a bed surrounding by a bounch of modern 49er. I levelling up me, for myself, because I want to live a straight, healthy life. I don't date anymore on old, don't give free stars, likes, smileys, victoria secret points. If a woman find me IRL, it's her luck, not mine. I'm 38 now, no family, no debts, engineer, 6 pack! Do I have every week a new date? Of course not! I wouldn't have the time anyway...
@@dantesparda7719 Of course I can't tell you any number, but we should look the statistics of the relationships, marriages, etc. Many people (men, women) choose the single life in these days. They will aging without family, kids. So I think many more, comparing these years. I hope nothing horrible will happen long before, because I want to enjoy my retirement. Just like you I guess.
This is so interesting! I've definitely seen my male friends commit less the more money they make. Female friends I've seen continue to date men that are within that top percentile. It's so frusterating! They then both go on to wonder why they can't find someone of "quality". God I'm happy I'm married 😅
Women are hypergamous and don't want normal guys. Much of what we as a society are suffering with is due to this female selectivity. Men had to earn their ability to attract women. Women were just born with value. Mem had to earn it. Women also initiate about 70-90% of divorces despite initiating the majority of domestic violence and cheat as much or more than men.
To be fair though, it is no fun being poor. My first husband had zero ambition and that caused a lot of stress and problems. I can see why women are wanting to be with a man who has his shit together.
@@Mmmmkaaay Nobody is arguing that men aren’t supposed to make value and provide in a relationship. I think the point is that women that get lots of higher education are setting themselves up for disappointment when they find there is a small and dwindling pool of men with equal or higher education levels, AND meet the other criteria they wants. EDIT: Happy I’m married to a woman that is educated, but also saw the potential I had. EDIT 2: Social media, and the media in general has HUGE impact on the decision that so many young women are making to make their career the number one thing in their life, and either delay or to never start a family. I think this, and the overall negativity against men played out over the media and social media makes a lot of young men look at seeking a mate to be too dangerous to do. How I see the media when it comes to the sexes is this: Men are bad, women are strong, independent, and don’t really even need men anymore.
This was a great podcast for laypersons who are just getting into the social science and economics of the modern dating scene. But it's all basically review for anyone who's spent a significant amount of time researching it. It's a good summary to send to your normie friends or your mom who's pressuring you to marry the neighbor girl who is like 2.5 points higher than you on the looks scale and trying to explain why that's unlikely.
@@realistic_delinquent I thought about that, but I thought that honor was too dependent on the beliefs of others. I ment respect as to treat others with respect and also receive respect, so respect is half you and half others.
Are you guys even in relationships? I feel like this intellectual approach misses the mark. My advice is for men to learn what they truly admire and want in their life. Find friends who are willing to tell you the truth and can help you with your blind sides. Relationships work when people pay attention to eachother and love eachother. Women generally don't want a atm machine that despises them. It's about how you're able to make a woman feel. How she makes you feel.
Very true. One of my goals as a woman was to make enough money as a woman, so I had the luxury of being with a quality man regardless of his income or income potential. Wanting a particular man is far more sexy than needing one.
@WatchEuropaTheLastBattle That's not been my experience. I'm not a keyboard warrior, I've been a highly successful Real Estate for the past 25 years in an affluent area of California. So, my clients are predominantly in the top 5% of income in the USA. So, I have a front row seat to know who people are married to, their educational background, their finances and their credit rating and consumption habits. Nearly all of my clients are dual income, I have had less than 20 clients where the wife was a stay at home mother who cared for their children. Most of my clients are in the tech sector of Silicon Valley and are married to other people at their same level With the median sales prices of homes being 1.4 million in my area for an average home, it is essential that both couples make strong salaries. The fantasy for many people is that one will go to college and meet their partner there and have 2 children and be together for 50 years. Typically if one marries at a younger age, they will typically find that they will be divorced by their early 30's. Many of my clients have found their second wife or husband at work or through friends. Most people associate with people at the same level or somewhat higher. Many men and women delay marrying until they are in their late twenties to early 30's and they generally have a higher success rate in their marriage succeeding. Of these, most have no more than 2 children. Many don't want any children at all, they are more accomplishment based. I never had a calling to be a mother, my husband is 15 years younger than me and he never wanted children either. We both are in the same career and we have a very full life. He was approached by many young women while we were first dating, but he had zero interest in them. He said what attracted him to me was my confidence, he found many younger women insecure and needy. He is a confident man as well, so while to some we may be an atypical couple, there are others like us. In my area there are only 2 types of people working at Mac Donald's those under 18 who are going to college and those post retirement age looking to supplement their retirement pension.
Wow, I love to hear when I buck a trend. 45 year old widow, not on anti depressents. Happily childfree. Living in the woods with my dogs and cat, log fire and internet.
@@charlottebennett2202 wow that must be so peaceful. I used to live in the countryside of ottawa without any humans around for atleast 50 minutes. It was super peaceful.
Press subscribe for more dating truth bombs. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:24 Vincent’s Incredible Writing
04:45 Why Simping Doesn’t Work
10:26 What Does it Mean to be a Man?
16:48 Defining ‘Dark Gentlemen’
25:50 Why More Men are Single than Women
34:27 Impact of Eugenics in Dating
41:32 Reality of the Gender Wage-gap
47:50 How Casual Sex Misinforms Long-term Relationship Goals
54:09 Should Humanity Return to Polygamy?
1:01:40 The Disney-fication of Relationships
1:14:06 Can Female Competency Be Detrimental in Dating?
1:18:06 Should We Take Marriage More Seriously?
1:24:12 Dealing with Fringe Groups in Society
1:29:13 Where to Find Vincent
In regards to your comments about no red pill for marriage @1:21:53. There was once a sub reddit/forms for that. I'm sure it got deleted and only exist in archives. You should have Rian Stone on your podcast. He's was active on said forums.
38:15
But are women really worthy enough to pass the genes of those Mens...???...
Who will conduct those type of things...
Judging on appearance,looks will definitely fail.
Everyone have special skills
Some time devloping a skills take a time..
Some of Males electevely opt out themselves from celibacy...some dies early due risk of work environment.
People like Nikola Tesla. They are genious.
It doesn't matter.
If you born developed and transform yourself.
Increase critical and logical analytical thinking.
I wanted to answer your testosterone question. The reason violence decreases in males regardless of testosterone after 27 is because the corpus callosum has fully connected the two hemispheres of the brain and can regulate and impede the more primal desires. Men below this age have higher testosterone but less empathy because the mechanism isn’t fully formed. The corpus callosum in women is formed faster because when you have a screaming child demanding your attention, empathy is beneficial. Hope this helps.
@S ess You have no idea how much that pleases me to hear. Thanks ☺️
@S ess Yes. The corbus callosum is like usb hub that sits in between both hemispheres and grows throughout development. The two hemispheres of your brain take in information and see the world in completely different ways. The “hub” helps to regulate sensory data. If I removed the corpus callosum and covered one of your eyes and showed you the picture of an apple and asked you to tell me what it was, depending on the eye I covered the sensory data that carries the electrical signal cannot reach the hemisphere that governs language. You would know what it was, but couldn’t tell me. Another cool thing I discovered is that the two hemispheres govern the muscles don’t each side of the body. When you look at your hands they appear to be the same tools, there not. When you think you place your left hand to your face and your fingers will perhaps explore your face because the hemisphere of the brain that governs exploration controls the left. You strike and grab with your right because the hemisphere that controls the right hand is governed by the other. When you play guitar, the left explores the fretboard the right beats the rhythm. You may be wondering about those that are left handed, that’s a long conversation and I’ve already waffled on. But yes women are more empathetic, but also because of oestrogen and the differences in hormone rewards systems between men and women they can be more agreeable to their own detriment.
The last thing society needs is men with nothing to lose and that is what society is doing
Well since men have been losing everything, why would the current men care about contributing anymore.
@WatchEuropaTheLastBattle Eww you have no shame.
@WatchEuropaTheLastBattle lmfao facts facts facts facts
@WatchEuropaTheLastBattle straight facts bro.
@@MonetAllDay bruv u are unhygienic
Finally, a rational, non-toxic conversation about these crucial issues. And with data too.
I am decidedly not a prophet. 😈
Really, between two people who are qualified how?
@@peymanj3456 I'm sorry, do you know more information than these two men? They probably referenced about 80 studies during this chat; these are not uneducated men, even if they don't align with your views.
@SME how is someone qualified??
@@peymanj3456 they are humans with brains that have done research 👍
A bigger problem is just lack of community, dating should come about naturally after getting to know someone within your sphere of influence. dating apps and cold approach just seems unnatural, you dont even know the person, theres more fear she might say yes than no for now you need to go on a date with this person you know nothing about.
Must be a factor. I know several couples that probably wouldn't have gotten together based on a few dates, but they did become a couple after years of knowing each other as friends.
Cold approach didn’t used to be unnatural though . I remember growing up and cold approaching women was a common thing to do. It wasn’t creepy or weird at all and most women enjoyed it as well. I’m shocked that the modern generation are so weirder out by cold approach. It literally kills your odds of meeting women
@@billsimms2511 You can thank metoo movement for that.
Yeah man. It takes some of the pressure off. Women will come with their "These are my HARD REQUIREMENTS. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS" lists which are just to widdle down the barrage of dudes asking her out and miss possibly every guy that she wouldve been satisfied and at peace with. I suppose peace and satisfaction is admittedly NOT what a lot of women want however.
Sort of agree. It's one thing to know your people sort of and know you'll (have to) marry one of them and have a resonable gauch to who would work and so on and ask that person who you'r already friendly with to asking a stranger.
Also eliminates the stranger danger factor.
His definitions for geeks, needs and dorks has me instantly hooked. Its actually comically accurate, nice one 👌
He didn't create that terminology. That's what those words meant... and he got it wrong anyway.
A geek is hyper intelligent in a field that requires it. Math geek.
A nerd is someone who is obsessed with a particular field over and above whats considered normal but has no link to overall intelligence. A D&D nerd.
A dork is someone who exudes cringey behaviour, especially in regards to social interactions. A nerd.
My brother was very smart. An engineer with the college degree. Tall and attractive. Girls may have overlooked him!
@@lliamthrumble Sorry pal, you got it wrong too.
According to google a dork is someone socially inept. The term can also mean D**k or sometimes "lovable dork".
Geek and nerd is similar while the geek is more the collector and timely, while the nerd is abstract and timeless.
Scientists are nerds, enthusiasts are geeks and markiplier is the most lovely dork on the planet.
@@creativitysubs9935 nah. Not when those terms were created. I don't really care for terms changing.
It was creepy
"You have an ever increasing group of high performing women competing for an ever decreasing group of ultra high performing men." Thats the dating world in a nutshell
Accurate
No mention of how they get run through before wanting to settle and that it makes them useless as long term partners... 🤡
@@GGWP-nx3kn How does it make them useless?
@@crystalroche2168 women struggle to pair bond more than men when they’ve been run through ( one can argue that they’ve been alpha-widowed )
It’s a fascinating dichotomy, and it’s filtering down, waitress’s and women with no jobs are chasing the high status men now too. Entitlement and narcissism
Allowing Big Tech to commoditize dating/relationships has been one great big evil. As a man, I feel devalued and trapped in a disgusting dystopia.
Everything is Super! Continue to consume.
Facts
I feel trapped too. I met my husband at college before dating apps. That's when you had to go up to someone and ask them out and take a shot of courage.
He committed suicide after quitting a job and struggling to find another.
I have been forced to date again and this time use the apps. I am disgusted. I hate it.
That’s too bad bro. There’s hardly any competition now though!
@@ashleyboyd2764 Don't use the apps. Use churches. Social clubs. Volunteer. There are good men out there looking for good women.
I think entitlement is a big problem in dating. People feel entitled to a relationship and look at other people as resources for their consumption. When I started dating, I fell into that mindset as well. No one is perfect and life is not fair. Just do the best with the cards you have been given and become the best version of yourself possible. Focus on self improvement and don't worry about the rest.
That makes sense. Well said.
YES. There is little "hmmm, what can i build and contribute to a life with this person" kind of thinking. It's all, "I put on a bunch of makeup and jacked my t!ts up in this dress, what are you gonna give me?"
Online dating apps only fuel entitlement. If you are above average looking then you won’t run out of options . This leads people to look for the ‘perfect’ one which doesn’t exist
Social media is great but also terrible at the same time
@Sez B Ever heard of 'hypergamy'?
@Sez B Pro tip: watch the video first. This question is asked and answered.
I love how “giga alpha chad” is common terminology in todays intellectual discussions about society’s issues lmao
Recurrent "Chad'n Stacy" was a nice chuckle, too.
I don't even know what that is.
Yes and let's not forget Tyrone Biggens and Chad Thunderspank 😂
Chad Chadington Thunderstroke 3rd 😊
I never liked those label ever since it's conception. Alpha, beta, Chad, Stacy, etc. I grew up in the 90's where labels where few and far between. You got Jocks, goths, nerds, losers, winners, homewrecker, hoe, Republicans, Democrat's, asians, etc. Now we have street queens, hot girl summer, incels, alpha male, beta bucks, and countless more if you include the pronouns. Now everyone can stereotype everyone easily, completely more segmented society. Miss the 90's where you where mostly just you as an individual. Now people have so many predijucses they judge you base on anything without second thought. Auto-hate
Literally, one of the best conversations about the current dynamic between men and women. This is exactly what I’ve been telling people. You cannot take the biology out of us and what men and women find attractive. I think men are going to rise to the occasion, but I still think they won’t be high enough for the average woman who wants the top 10% of men. We shall see what happens next. I do agree it’ll get worst before it gets better.
The problem is deeper than that. Even low-to-average valued women expect guys that are way beyond their standards. If we were to take the rule of 6 that many media magazines have put out; taking for example a woman's attraction to a guy over 6' and a guy making 6 figures.. The percentage of guys over 6' is 14%; the percentage of guys earning 6 figures is 8%. That is LITERALLY 1.12% of the male population. The 1% of the population will mostly go for the above average women...and remember those are only two variables. We need to reverse the psychological harms done by feminist narratives; it's not healthy to have unrealistic expectations and expecting Mr. Perfect and Prince Charming.
At the end of the day, women have it harder surviving than guys; feminism has sent them into an abyss without them realizing. Will it get better? I don't see how when we see married women claiming to be 'independent'. Independent from whom? The same guys they want to be with? What a non-sense logic; males and females are dependent on each other.
@@hyedefinition1080 Those are USA statistics, you can't apply it to the damn world, that's way bigger than USA.
Do all African women go after men who make 6 figures? If they find a dude who brings food to the table they are happy.
Do all southern asian women go after 6'+ tall men? A 5'3 dude will be taller than the majority of the female population and they are ok with it.
Men making 6 figures and 6'+ tall are way more in Scandinavian countries, and they can earn that much cleaning toilets. Do all women want a Scandinavian guy? I don't think so. But these men get with women of all sizes, races and backgrounds while their "superior" Scandinavian women get pregnant of some nigerian immigrant so the child borns with a natural tan.
@@Sarablueunicorn ahhh, the USA is not the rest of the world argument. I agree, and never claimed it wasn't. And why is it irrelevant?
What it does display is the desire and whether you like it or not: USA holds the current cultural hegemony. Which means, if you were to transplant people from Africa or Scandanavia, they will behave very similarly to the US population. So please take your anger and red herrings elsewhere.
@@hyedefinition1080 Totally agree. Feminism is ruining women's lives (including those that didn't ask for it tragically), wish there was a way to reverse this stupid radical shit. I'm not gonna talk about myself as I can't find one man whether average or below average that is willing to commit living in NYC - but I see my average or above average girlfriends settling for guys that are way below average - not 6 feet tall, not making 6 figures, sometimes wayyy older than them. You can tell they are out of their league but my girlfriends settle..I know it might not be a representative sample, but I've started noticing it a lot around me. I'm wondering what kind of trend that is. Gotta do more research and ponder on that for a second...
@@leilau how is it settling if your girlfriends are still dating up? Are you saying these old men are broke? Have no social skills? I dont understand what makes your friends deserve more?
It isn’t rejection that hurts. It’s repetitive, consistent, humiliatingly aggressive rejection of every variety that hurts. Year upon year of inceldom. You’d have to be an idiot not to recognise the signs. “You are not attractive or wanted!” it screams.
Message received.
Women get used for sex and then rejected. You don’t have it as bad as you think.
@@XxxX-wx3er better than an all out rejection. Average girls are at least somewhat desired by the HIGH VALUE guys but not in the way you exactly wanted. The average man would treat her right but she doesn’t give a fuck about the average guy.
Incels aren’t even allowed through the door
@@strider-pubgmobile757 ok, so women don’t desire them, nature is based on natural selection. If incels wants women to lower their standards for them, are incels willing to lower their standards for women they don’t desire? There’s millions of single women out there, and to be fair you and the incels aren’t exactly kind about women, all this “hitting the wall”, comparisons to fridges full of sausages, all this anti-simping garbage, what makes you think women want to be around you men after everything that’s been happening in the manosphere lately? Would men go with a woman whose hit the wall? No they wouldn’t, so why should women go with them while in their prime. I mean men lose interest after sex and move on, I think men are only mad that women won’t let them use them, because all men dump you in the end.
@@XxxX-wx3er it’s not a competition and I’m capable of having empathy for other peoples unique situations.
But since you made it a comparison, let me ask you how you think women would feel if they were rejected from the start? Let’s say a 5/10 woman. 22 years old. She flirts, asks out, hits on single men frequently and yet they all reject her, sometimes in as humiliating a fashion as they can muster. Say this goes on for years. Despite her best attempts, no one from the opposite sex will touch her.
You’re suggesting that’s a better situation than being used for sex?
@@XxxX-wx3er how women get USED for sex? Didn't women like sex?
I've never put aside any time to pursue a relationship. I've spent most of my young adulthood trying to do well in school, so I've been out of touch for the past 4 years. What's going on now is just... wow. Almost all of my cousins are now divorced and I've decided I don't want any part of this. If I'm alone someday, so be it, that isn't something that scares me. Going to someone's funeral because he took his own life after a divorce, now that scares me.
You not wrong man
Kind of same but I do now want to die alone either. Very sad.
@@josephang9927 There is no guarantee you will not die alone anyway. Caskets for two are still not yet available.
@@kaiserpuppydog7174 DELET
jesus ^ ^
There were many boys that stormed Normandy that broke down and cried, couldn’t go on.
The fact that so many brave boys/men DID storm the beach is beyond comprehension. I will always be thankful for their sacrifice.
I’ll bet only a few would’ve made that sacrifice if they knew what America would be like today.
That’s precisely why the military cannot meet recruitment requirements today despite huge signing bonuses.
There were also commanding officers who were ordered to shoot any soldier that turned back. Many of the men were conscripted. If men in both sides were allowed free will, thebentire conflict would have been much smaller in scale. Goverments litteraly forced most of those men to their deaths.
@@bradkindley That didn't happen very often in the US and Royal armies during WWII. By that time it had already begun in the US Army that only officers carried pistols as a tradition from the era of line closers, rather than the expectation they'd be used for their historical purpose. Only one US soldier was formally shot for desertion in WWII. The Soviets on the other hand executed a lot of their runners, but then they weren't involved in the invasion at Normandy. What drove those men to get out of those Higgins boats was the knowledge they'd all get shot like fish in a barrel by the Germans if they didn't at least try to get to cover on the beach. At least by getting off, they could try to fight for their chances of survival.
The fact that psycho-Chad is now a technical term that we all generally understand is honestly incredible
well i just call em psycho... i know really nice chad's that are out there.
Birth control is a bigger technological disruption than nuclear energy. It's created so many problems and made sex worthless. It's screwing women most of all: soon half of them will be childless and without meaning into their old age.
@@taylorc2542 I look forward to it. :D
I think it's as ignorant as 30 genders
@@taylorc2542 nah the biggest technological disruption was online dating and social media apps. Because it allowed women to only chase chads and suddenly men were competing in a global dating market place. The pill did make a difference but it didn't matter nearly as much as social media because even with the pill there was a balance between men and women having sex. Ugly men could still get laid if they were bold, brave and had impeccable social skills. Today, a bold ugly guy will end up in prison or get socially ostracized because women don't need to settle when they can get chad, tyrone, rodriguez with the push of a few buttons.
Love this conversation. Thank you! Since you asked us ladies, I have no problem telling a man if I am interested in him. It’s very rare for me because I am a reclusive artist and I love solitude so much. So when I do tell a man I am interested in him, it’s because I think he is attractive and inspiring and I can see how I can spend time with him joyfully. I get rejected because I definitely overdo it in expressing my attraction when I do. I am very masculine in my confidence levels and also very romantic in expressing myself and that scares men with good reason, they are terrified of being cornered into a relationship. Meanwhile they have no idea how scared I am of getting in a relationship with them. I don’t know if I can even be in a relationship anymore because I have been alone so long and I really need my solitude when I need it. The ‘pain’ of rejection is very short term, because I believe life’s rejection is God’s protection. I would rather be rejected than used and I think the men who rejected me respected me enough to reject me and I am grateful that they didn’t take advantage of my attraction to them to lead me on.
Maybe there not just that into you?
@@geo1134 Exactly! And they don’t waste my time, and I appreciate it.
@KJ A 😂 WOW! Good Morning. You are really pissed off, at all of us. I don’t know what conversation you were listening to. There was nothing enraging, offensive or hostile about this conversation. Two men were expressing their honest impressions of relationship dynamics, based on things they have personally experienced, and/or absorbed from statistical and historical data. So what if a single man wants to mate more? That is his right, if he has willing partners. They are not hurting anyone by dating honestly. They are not depriving me of my freedoms in any way. I don’t have to agree with every behavior, thought, or characterization men possess to learn something about how they see the world we all live in. If my crime in your eyes is being genuinely interested in how men think and feel, and expressing gratitude that they are thinking deeply about their relationships with women, and sharing their views with us, so we can all understand each other better, then I am guilty and I do not apologize for it.
@KJ A You've used lots of words but you haven't said anything. Can you counter a single argument or position either man takes during the discussion? Can you offer an alternative that is more compelling? Many here are interested in the topic and would love to be enlightened. Please go ahead. Perhaps you could introduce us to a man of value with the qualifications necessary to interpret the data correctly?
I love solitude so much.... see a therapist that's not healthy...
This went way deeper than just dating. Socieology + idealism + psychology + psychopathology + scientific method
Well... all those topics coincide with one another
Exactly 💯
Unfortunately his dismissive of poetry is deeply ignorant. The benefit of linguistics to our human nature is infinite and it’s one of the lost attributes of modern society.
@@di3486 agreed
Dark Gentleman!! Thank you for coming up with this term. It describes my husband exactly. I couldn't put my finger on what it was about him that makes him such a unicorn. As for leadership in a couple, I think the best approach is just having each partner take the lead on whatever it is they have a comparative advantage in. For example, I take the lead on our finances, travel logistics, social engagements, he takes the lead on vehicle and house maintenance, anything technology related, health records. We take turns taking the lead on chores depending on who's busy with something else that needs to get done. Every couple has a different distribution of skills. I highly recommend looking for a mate who has the opposite skill set as you. Makes for much easier cooperation.
You make entirely too much sense. Better dumb yourself down so men won't think you are masculine!
I wash floors and drop soap. I have some greatness in me !
Do you earn more than him?
I thought it was about sharing values and having similar dispositions not about opposite skills? Men aren't out looking for a distribution of skills. At least I'm not. There isn't anything I need help with hun other than basking in feminine energy. Modern society doesn't nullify inherent biological behaviors. Can she cook, can she handle children without abusing them, is she a good teacher, does she exhibit patience, does she have compassion for others, can she garden, can she organize household items and complete chores, can she please her man, does she like to serve? There is feminism and then there is feminine energy. Young women still have it before they're indoctrinated. Older, educated gals have lost it. You will call biology "sexism" when it's simply what men find attractive. What you find attractive is not what men find attractive. Looking for provisions, protection, strength, and technical skills are what women are attracted to not men.
To Jasmine: Good for you, for both of you.
I have enjoyed so many of Chris Williamson's YT episodes, but this one may have been the best. High praise.
An interesting conversation, thanks chaps. I must say I'm very glad I did almost all my flirting / dating / philandering in the previous century when one didn't need a lawyer and a psychiatrist in tow.
Good days
Lucky you, imma keep trying tho no cap fuck it less guys means more chance right?
@@xMARIO16x Narrows down guys to be accused of sexual assault.
@@xMARIO16x Please don't, the average IQ can't take another hit.
This part of some men not wanting to "put the effort in" rang pretty true for me. I'm generally pretty quiet, chill, and introverted. I don't mind spending time alone, so I don't feel so much pressure to seek relationships; however, when I do meet someone I'm intersted in I do "put the effort in". When that effort results in being alone again, it just seems like spending night after night out with them was not worth it. I could just spend that time making music, reading philosophy, playing video games with friends, which is way more fun, than trying to convince a stranger that I'm worth their time.
Well at least you got laid at certain times, I assume.
A man need regular nutting for mental sanity IMO
Consider making the dating process as fun for yourself as juggling knives... You don't do it for the other person, make it something that entertains you
My thoughts exactly.
@@yudy92 Exactly - life is too short to put yourself in a position where you have to entertain or prove yourself to another person. Fuck that. The moment you put yourself in that position, it's an unenjoyable uphill battle (I speak from past experience). Now I just try to do or say whatever I want and if they like it, great, if not, fuck off.
Better to have lost love then never loved at all. You’re forgetting the good times you had when you went out which is why you tried in the first place. Yeah it sucks when it ends but if you accepted that it will end from the beginning then you can’t have a negative view on it in hindsight.
Things I think they should have mentioned more of..
1.) mental issues... how 2/3rd of women over 30 are on antidepressants or anxiety medication. Not to mention BPD, narcassicm, and bipolar behaviors.. in my experience those are very much a contributing factor to why im single.
2.) how its easier to replace a relationship than to fix a relationship these days.
3.) And how a lot of 20 years olds stink at communication.. such as ghosting.. and not willing to talk on the phone and really put in effort.
4.) How women are more overweight and obese these days than ever.. which a lot of men do not find attractive and yet women are told to think.. accept me for me.. and if a man doesnt like me for me being overweight, he isnt the one for me.. mentality instead of. Oh.. this is what men want? Let me lose weight then.
Counter that with men.. women want tall...people cant change their height.. women want rich.. becoming wealthy isnt obtainable for everyone. A lot of it is luck based and who you know.. so impossible for men to change themselves and women could change themselves but choose not to.
4.) A lot of women have children in their early age. And thats a lot of baggage for when they get older after their failed trial run with relationships.
5.) People are so obsessed with finding red flags in people.. if you wanna look for things wrong.. you will find them and then abandon and no one is perfect.
Fantastic post! Those points are very rarely discussed.
Also the painting of being overweight as being healthy.
I find this topic really interesting... i was just talking about how it seems the relationship dynamic between men and women has changed a lot in the past 60 years. I've been with my partner for 10 years and it seems like the whole dating situation has even changed a lot since then. Women are being influenced to act in more traditionally masculine ways. It's ironic that modern feminism endorses that message... to be successful, you must act more like a man. Yet, the patriarchy is bad for society and needs to be smashed?!
Please supplant the term "change" with deteriorated, it's more fitting.
@@vklnew9824 yeah, you're probably right there!
Preach!
Very good point actually. I’ve been noticing how a lot of these new ‘woke’ ideas are actually extremely “white” ideas directly from the power source they claim to decry. They take over their minds and actually deepen how disenfranchised they are! All while eroding societal structure itself.. scary and interesting.
I've never read a feminist book saying act like a man to get to the top I've read critics of why women often feel they have to take on masculine traits to be in a high powered mostly male career. The purpose of feminism is to find a way to work that suits women better without losing their job eg a break for pregnancy paid leave. I've never read anything your claiming. What book and feminist did you read?
Basically these are the main factors behind our current state of relationships:
- The internet has created an abundance of potential mate choices
- Women have more options in terms of men and money and don’t want to commit unless “Mr charming” comes along
- Men have withdrawn or changed their focus to video games, hobbies, study, career, or other forms of distraction rather than face the pain of potential rejection or the possible drama that comes with a relationship.
- Other things like depression or anxiety etc hasn’t helped either
Bingo
Beautiful piece of article
You missed a piece though. Those women sleep around with the chads, but then lie to the beta when they turn 30 and decide to settle down.
This is a lack of ethics that women have embraced.
The Chad wouldn’t bother with most women if she didn’t put out. And that would correct everything.
You two have a great mind for nuance. It's a blessing, in this day and age, to be able to enjoy long-form and thoughtful discussion, with thanks to the have minimal moral/ethical bias.
This is probably the most brilliant guest you've ever had. I'm so happy he pointed out that the limited idea that the man must be domineering in every relationship is not the end-all be-all to every equation. Both parties in a relationship should play to their strengths and take on roles, but they don't need to be limited by preconceived notion.
Yes. They shouldn’t do a role if they are incompetent in that role and should be doing whatever they are good at
men would love to not take up that role but if we do we get cheated on and mistreated
@11cacoo It doesn't work when women take the lead. It is innately built-in in her DNA to feel safe, so she needs to see the male as the protector, his natural proclivity. In some areas of expertise the woman can take the lead. It is not completely black & white.
In so many of these conversations regarding the dating market, and the current situation of very few men having access to almost all of the women, the inevitable violence and societal collapse that results is never brought up. Either people don’t know about this or are avoiding the topic. I was very glad to hear Vincent bring it up and for Chris to have his epiphany. This does not end well.
There is going to be no come-uppance or a violent upheaval. We have free weed and shrooms. Men will be fine. Boys who fail to become a "high value man" will work blue collar jobs and enjoy free 🦐 and jerk off and play video games in their spare time. I'm pretty sure professional lovers will also get legalised within the next few decades in most Western nations, if not, atleast some of the democrat states in US( "S3x work is real work" slogans). So there's that going on for them too.
White collar workers(men) are the ones who should walk on egg shells. The elites will always be above the law, they can r_pe, m_rder and loot as they please.
@@garrusvakarian3451 yes we will move more to a police state and Chinese social score system but it won’t last , the technology that enables the modern world is fragile and we are going to dependent by far the most dangerous men are those brought up to hate themselves and we will have a lot of them , in addition what is internalised now and ends as suicide will at some point externalise . The future holds promise for health and science but the implosion of social cohesion will destroy civilisation long before global warming does, the discussion is brilliant but it misses the elephant in the room demographics! In a war you kill your enemy in the western world there is no need for a war just wait the western world is failing to replicate itself and no matter what you may think of that , it will of itself destabilise the western world . Well plenty of doom from me !! There is some optimism for medicine to be more effective but future is not looking good! Evolution does not like civilisation the deplorables get to reproduce to much .
@MotoIncognito We will have fewer young men and women for that matter as we are heading for an inverted demograpgic pyramid.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue.
People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her.
A lot of guys have never had that.
This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that.
The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow)
Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society.
What are we seeing in the west now?
Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels.
White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes.
Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends.
White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle.
With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be toxic.
Worse thing is I don’t see how this problem can be ‘fixed’.
What’s almost comical is this new pattern isn’t going to make women happy either long term. Sure, they might get a nice career going by the age of 30 or 35 but then what? Their “peak years” are gone
What a depressing subject lol
I am 74. When I was growing up in Europe all a girl had to do was go dancing on Saturday and you would find a boyfriend.
If he turned out a flop you got yourself another one. We had the opposite problem which was to find a way to deal with unwanted attention. But when that happened we were free to slap them or kick their a.. in a memorable creative way.
The problem today is that there are no more dances and I think that happened by liberal design. Lonely people are easy to control. So they made dancing unavailable and something to be frowned upon. But it was an incredible way to get to know someone in close contact. There are rules in dancing how to. The boys knew how to touch a girl respectfully in a gentlemanlike manner and both enjoyed simply moving together according to the music. I was a teenager in the wild sixties and seventies. But while dancing everybody agreed automatically on the special code of conduct and knew where the "don't cross" line was .
It is amazing what you learn about someone you dance with. It's a great stress relieve and dancing people always smile.
Stop talking, use your influence, move your a.. and bring dancing Back!
I would literally sell my least favorite sibling to have grown up in the 1960‘s and 70s. Thanks for the painful slap of nostalgia for a world we‘ll never experience🥲
@@evaphillips2102 In case I get real rich I will start a foundation bringing back dancing. No kidding.
I also will start another one to fight for clean advertisement and make it against the law to use exclusively images of women to advertise age related problems, weight or appearance issues.
With how superficial women are nowadays, I doubt it would help guys(especially below average looking ones) in any way, shape or form. I would also like to know if average/below-average women in that era only dated good looking men, who were top 10-20% of the social hierarchy and also felt entitled to such partner just cause one of these men slept with them?
If something similar were to happen in today's era, really few women would actually come for such dance and would prefer going on a one night stand with some social media model. The only woman who will come to such dance would be women past their prime, who aren't able to get such men to sleep with them and are actively looking for a provider after leading the casual dating life style, which a man with self respect finds disrespectful and a deal breaker
@@user-nq5hy7vn9k All women found a guy back then, not just the pretty ones!
In the US with no socialist programs a man has to be at least a provider! You can be one in so many ways today. I know many women who are NOT looking for a top gun!
If they were they stop that quickly when they hit thirty. I organized singles party for a while and women had to go on waiting list all the time because I would only do even numbers. It was by appointment only and admission (and a stiff fee!) were based on an one hour personal interview. People were begging me for more parties when I lost interest.
@@liesascott5414 well I was talking about men, but even you pretty much confirmed some of the predictions/assumptions I had about women
Dating market is exactly what it says. We reduced our interactions into balance spreadsheet and risk assessment. We forgot meaning of sacrifice, commitment, family, meaning etc. I feel how more and more detached from my mind is from my spirit. Surely it's only me.
It is society at large. Technology is dissociative
Spoken like a true simp ..
@@ashleyboyd2764 That's because it's not just the internet. Modern transportation and communication technologies have totally changed the way our society thinks, all the way back to the early 20th century. People forget the first major rise in divorce rates (barring hard times like wars and recessions) in America was the 1950s, the era when television and telephones and personal transportation became commonplace. We can blame the apps all we want, but the way we relate to each other has been shifting for decades, the apps just seem to be accelerating processes already in motion.
No we do not forget those things. We are just careful who we give them to.
What you just said is pretty scary but true
I hope Vincent continues to write more, I think his writing and coming on the podcast are extremely beneficial to people and I don't know what he's referencing when he says he can do more
Hi there, thank you for a wonderful podcast! Those are really important topics, and I’m glad that someone is finally opening up a discussion about this! As you’ve asked a POV on rejections from a fellow female, here’s what I’ve experienced dealing with rejection:
Growing up in Russia, and in a family where the conservative gender dynamics are highly promoted (girls need to be submissive and feminine, while guys need to be proactive, decisive and masculine), I am very comfortable with men asking me out rather me initiating stuff. If anything, my flirting is always indirect, and mostly looks like ‘testing the waters’, and making small insignificant moves, that might trigger some action from a guy’s side. There’s been some situations where I tried making the first move, and ngl it made me highly HIGHLY anxious. And some of times - I’ve been rejected after putting myself out there. And oh gosh it hurt like a motherfucker, mostly because I felt that I already made an extra effort and step that I shouldn’t be taking, and portrayed myself as ‘desperate’ and ‘unwanted’ already. So yeah, Vincent’s idea about female POV was quite accurate, I would maybe just add that having to make the first move for me, and being rejected after making the first move really adds to the feeling of inadequacy, so I usually make my move by tilting the guys towards making the move on me:) and I really wish it was easier, and I could just make a move and feel comfortable with myself, even after a rejection. But, I still think that on average, a woman, who’s very proactive in dating is more frequently off-outing than not, due to ‘proactivity’ being more of a masculine feature, rather than feminine. But it’s just my opinion, and based on my experience.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I was curious what sort of things you do to tilt a man towards asking you out.
I have practically no idea what that would look like. All the times I thought she liked me (invited me inside for a drink at 1am, for example) I was wrong and would get rejected.
Rejection is good spiritually speaking cuz your ego gets deflated your ego is your worse enemy and the funny thing you think is you your thoughts are not your thoughts and your ego is not you think about it watch the movie revolver with Jason staham
And if we read your slight hints wrong men end up in jail so we don't engage anymore, you can thank the feminists for that,
And you don't think men feel the same way about rejection?
Well thanks to feminism you better learn some game and get ready for more but eventually you will not feel as bad or you will stop putting yourself out there.
So basically it's, once again, female hypoagency. And putting the onus on men. Again. Yet we are told how much better and more emotionally intelligent women are blah blah blah.
Enjoy your cats.
Such a risky topic but discussed carefully and thoughtfully. This was an absolutely incredible discussion.
"risky" ... tells a lot about the current state of western culture and norms, isn't it? This should really ring alarm bells...
It shouldn’t be a risky topic… why we’ve scared ourselves from having real adult conversations is mind blowing.
@@ChosenPlaysYT spot on
@@istvantoth7431 yep it does
It's not risky at all
New to the dating market after two back-to-back long-term relationships for a total of nearly 25 years of being coupled. I’ve experimented with online dating ( if you want to call it that). I’ve been perplexed as to why major popular media has not exposed the farce of catfishing bots, professional solicitors and amateur onlyfans who are all try to monetize the dating market. I am just looking for a wholesome partner to share my life with.
Look up “passport bros” on youtube
I find it tremendously difficult just to find a recognition for the problem with modern dating. Most of the people from the previous generations I know are just numb to it, because it is no longer in their scoop of interest since they have already secured a relationship. And when it comes to women, they still follow the narrative of the stigma that patriarchy has inflicted on them in the past. In their minds it is still an ongoing problem and with almost every single woman I feel like we were rivals not fellow human beings who stand a chance of cooperating to raise a descendant.
I believe that the idea of creating a society where both genders are supposed to be profoundly carrier oriented has an economical motive. However, I believe it has an opposite effect. It was in my primary school, when we were taught that a family is the fundamental cell of the society, hence the building block of economy. I have my own empirical experience. All of the colleagues that are older than me and have a family are much more willing to work long hours and have a greater ambition than me. I have no motivation to make a lot of money for myself. The result of this all is that I just want to leave this society and contribute as little as possible. I don´t know, it might be just me, but I would say it is happening in a much greater than individual scale.
You are one of the "beautiful ones" then. You should check out the mouse utopia experiment. Your reaction to society is typical of that outcome of that experiment, believe me when I say that your position is very common, there are many other many reaching the same conclusion.
Amen brother, seriously well put!
@@thathandsomedevil0828 yup realised im one of them the moment i heard about this experiment im changing myself slowly though.
Check out Aaron Clarey’s content. I think you’ll like it and he’ll certainly help you understand how to maximize your life and finances with that perspective.
If one has no intention of marriage and kids, then how much money do they need? I think research has shown that once you have enough to pay for the basic necessities, extra money doesn't really increase happiness to any significant degree. The bigger question would be, are you doing something you like?
Great podcast - chris is an excellent host ,always seems genuinely interested in the guest
This is modern wisdom? Lot of modern bullshit if you ask me.
@@zootsoot2006 Well it's good no one asked then ha
Always fascinating and enlightening conversations, promoting further discussions in social circles. Keep 'em coming, Chris.
What's a social circle?
Thanks!
Getting rejected over and over doesn’t make it easier, at least not for me. I still feel the sting of rejection just as strong the 100th time as I did the first time.
Thats an issue you have with your self esteem. Its a negative mindset
You have to improve yourself by objective standards. Lift.
Yeah. Your grandpop asked like 5 women out before he found your grandmother.
Now? You to ask like 100 women. Nobody is saying this, it's more physcology damning than it use to be. It's too much.
@@cshirle3 All the effort in the world, to have the privilege of having sex with an average woman who doesn't try for anything...
I think that for guys practice at rejection is pointless it's like practicing getting punched in the face it only makes it more certain that you'll be knocked out what does boost men's confidence and ability to handle rejection is his confidence in his place in the hierarchy of men and is not disappointed in his level
Can’t believe I just found this channel a couple weeks ago. You have some super interesting people on here.
More podcasts like this, please! Fascinating, fascinating stuff. We need to keep this conversation going.
This is one of the most hands down intelligent, powerful, life changing conversation and exchange ever. 🙌 I love this podcast
One of the most intellectual RP discussions I've ever seen. Great video!
A big problem, I think, is that our current dating setup is not built to maximize the potential for men and women to fall for each other. Hookup culture means the high-value men can skip from woman to woman without committing, creating trust issues and frustration in those women looking for a partner, while lower-value men grow frustrated at not getting chosen. (In addition to the problem you mention with women getting a wrong sense of their own value). Men attack women for not understanding how "good" they have it because so many guys want to sleep with them - missing the point that typically, women are actually more interested in a long-term relationship and connection, and the sex isn't always that interesting to women (A guy friend once said to me "well, even bad sex is okay," to which I replied "no. just, no."). Yes, more and more women are having casual sex, but not as much as men, and they generally don't seem as interested in casual sex, as illustrated in those college studies where colleges with fewer women had more dominant monogamy, while hookup culture was more rampant in the colleges with fewer men. Clearly, women and men have somewhat different priorities when dating and picking "mates" - and that's okay.
So to my point about maximizing potential:
For a woman to asses a guy, she needs to interact with him and see him do things, move about, act, get a sense of his attitude. Dating apps, first-dates and clubs aren't a good place to do this because it's not a prolonged environment - and thus women will only accept very good-looking men because, well, it's all they have to assess them with. Meanwhile, the high-value men need prolonged contact with women to actually start to develop a "you're more than sex" interest, which they were forced to in the past when they had to marry in order to have sex. (Why WOULD he develop that more-than-sex interest when there's the next lady around the bend of the next swipe? Throwback to Chris' conversation with Louise Perry). If the fuck-boy can't exist because women gatekeep, but actually have to become productive participants in the dating market, then the high-value men get taken, and lower-value men get their shot. Imagine the difference it'd make if all women collectively decided not to have sex until after having dated for three months. (Emphasis: I'm not blaming anyone who has sex earlier, I think there's a lot of pressure on women to be promiscuous, and also, if that's what they wanna do, go do it, it's a free world. But I think many women would naturally have sex later in a relationship than they currently are if the pressure wasn't to have lots of sex. I certainly felt a lot of pressure to "not be a virgin" back in high school.)
For all those reasons, the easiest time to land a partner is during education - you have prolonged interaction with the opposite sex in a setting where the emphasis isn't constantly on dating. So we have to try and create spaces for the sexes to interact on a casual basis after education.
Imagine if we all went to some low-key dance event every Friday. Like, no/little alcohol, just a bunch of dancing, and perhaps some rehearsed dancing so that you know what to do and WOMEN KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. I swear, a big problem in clubs today is the uncoordinated dancing, because as a woman you never know if a guy is going to try and grab you, and even though he's simply trying to escalate - and indeed he must to get anywhere - it's such an uncomfortable situation to have a man you don't want near you try to put his hand on your waist. It's so invasive. And honestly, even if you're interested in him, a lot of women will still feel it's moving fast. I have a personal theory that women will also not dance with an approaching man not necessarily because they wouldn't be interested, but because the pain he would feel if she later rejected him and the uncomfortableness/fear of having to do so is too much. Aka. rather let a man down early than allow him to escalate things and then having to reject him or end up in a potentially uncomfortable/dangerous situation.
All my girlfriends sigh and giggle at the dancing scene in the BBC Pride and Prejudice where Elizabeth and Darcy dance. It's intense and romantic, even though they barely touch. And note how the dances were created so that you could talk while you did it, but you still had to do enough that you could be excused for not having a very engaging conversation.
We need those kinds of collective events where single people can meet again. Where you can get to know each other at your leisure over a period of time, and where the pressure isn't constantly to find a partner. Another thing that happens in those environments is that men and women will cheer each other on. "Go get him/her." But in the age of tinder, everyone is in competition with everyone.
All of these musings are from someone who has blessedly never been in the modern dating market, but I've talked with so many frustrated friends and family members that it really concerns me to see so many people from both sexes be such great people, yet frustrated because they can't find a partner.
The game is broken, guys. For BOTH sexes. And we need to fix it.
That's a great analysis. The modern dating market is extremely confusing and negative. I'm an asexual male, zero motivation for sex. My energy gets focused elsewhere. Projects, inventions and so forth. I really dislike the notion now all longtime single men have entitlement issues and act on society. Sometimes there's no red or black pill, no MGTOW, incell or hate for anyone. The assumptions, hate, and accusation is crazy on all sides.
Dang this was an incredible comment! I love it! This is great conversation and totally true. I never thought about the woman's side of clubs and the pressure involved with turning guys down. I love what you said about the dancing and talking. That is so true! I wish we never screwed it up because we are all missing out on a good time. There was so much in your comment to think and talk about. Thanks for writing all of that. You have my brain going now.
Fair
Those casual environments do exist outside education. They’re called hobbies. And travel. Really as a dude the hardest part I’ve had was getting a foot in the door. But it’s really not that bad as people make it seems. I’m even 5’6 and half Mexican so like. Sure there are a lot of women that wouldn’t give me a chance out of the gate. But I’ve always had a great time with the ones who did. Now I’m in 30’s and am constantly moving around and living in/visiting different countries and idk. I guess it’s different in the states right now I’m not sure. I guess if you’re successful, confident, and generally fun to be around you don’t have as many problems with women. Even if you’re a short king like me. Just be a good person ya’ll. Be the best version of yourself, build value in yourself and you won’t have a hard time in the dating world because you’re not looking for the validation. You already have that from yourself. So if someone wants to be with you, right on, let’s get this show on the road. If you don’t want to be with me, right on - the show is still going on the road though haha. This bus is leavin with or without you, sis, and there’s always someone else that wants a piece of what I’ve got going on. Idk. I’m just saying dating isn’t that bad of a time. Right now I’m looking for something a little more long term because I’m looking to marry in the next 10 years. But I’m looking to get promoted this year and there are still more places I want to live in.
Ramble ramble
Those casual scenarios do exist for people when start looking past relationships for their personal fulfillment outside of relationships. This video doesn’t talk about how many people are legitimately uncomfortable or unhappy if they’re single and constantly feel like they need someone else.
Great comment!
Law of Pareto seems to prevail for the promiscuous, but how many are truly happy navigating through contemporary dating?
Was sad to hear of the demise of public dancing in my home town in the 1960s. Dance studios still put on well attended dances for their membership, but the catchment is smaller and the demographic a lot older.
There are reasons that there was huge opposition to the sexual liberation movement by older folks.
The normalisation of sex outside of marriage was always going to lead to these perverse outcomes.
Both genders were incentivised to marry to meet their sexual needs. This kept the top 4% of men somewhat in check. It was better for women because on average they were after a stable relationship more than sexual gratification anyway. Studies show that men want to marry virgins and that women tend to be more sexually gratified the less partners they have had.
Literally the only people to have "benefited" from sexual liberalisation are the top 4% of men.
On point!
Actually the percentage of playwrs as well. Some men dont have a purpose. Their only purpose in life is sexual gratification and they get that by getting free sex
Completely agree with your statement.
And the top 4% of women as well I would say
@@MA-se1iv I'm not sure that they benefit from the current sexual situation.
On the topic of rejection: Every woman deals with rejection a different way. As for me, I have always been straightforward with the few guys that caught my interest. I give very clear signals to a guy that I like him, including telling him upfront. Then I would lean back and wait for him to make the next move. This is my self-preservation and "hurt-protection" strategy in a sense that I would rather suffer the hurt of rejection now when it's in the very early stages and not too emotionally invested yet. It will take time for me to get over my feelings for someone I really like. But the fact that they do not feel the same way and I know about it right away is enough consolation for me that we were not meant to build a life together. This knowledge always helped me move on from someone faster and get on with my life.
Based mindset.
Great discussion! Thank you for sharing it! I got taken in by the notions of third wave feminism in my youth, and it took Jordan Peterson to wake me up before it was too late. I'm beyond grateful for that. I think nowadays more than ever we like to live in a happy fantasy land about relationships and life in general, rather than assessing reality and then acting accordingly.
Your talk about suffering and achievement was my favorite part. Thank you!
Congratulations on waking up.
I think many women, young and old are just done with men all together. Peace is just easier
Ты в России/СНГ или за рубежом?
I like how Chris is actually asking tough questions and for further elaboration into the data or concepts vs simply bashing one gender or the other. Men and women need each other. And even as women make more, in large urban cities, one salary is simply not enough anymore unless you're in the top 5%. Top 10% is middle class for many of the US coastal cities.
Yep. Without active men, a society that exists will die, or a society may not have a place to exist. Without women society doesn’t grow or doesn’t even exist
@@IffyEdem Why does feminism say they "don't need no man?" Men seem far more accepting of being single than women.
@@reubenmorris487 It is psychological projection.
@@reubenmorris487 statiscs show there are as many single men as women.
But men are more likely to be single from the age of 18-50 while women are likely to be single after the age of 50.
This happens because men don't settle before having their life together but they definitely don't want to stay alone in their older years.
Majority of marriages end up in divorce and women don't seek marriage or relationships while men tend ro re-marry.
Women want a partner for the purpose of procreating and the average woman ends her fertile period at the age of 50, without being able to procreate a woman has no interest in finding a partner, especially if she has her own means of subsistence. FACTS.
Women who didn't have children will call it a day and adopt a child or some pets, women who had children will rather invest their resources in their children anf grandchildren than in another man they won't procreate with.
Imo it’s not even just about money as a resource, it’s *time*. Anyone working 8+ hours a day just wouldn’t be as accessible to a child on a daily basis, in comparison to a 2-parent household, no?
Love the conversation. Nice work, Chris. Woman here. I had about zero success making the first move. It was rare (I'm married now) that I would approach someone who was not already showing interest in me. I didn't feel so terrible being rejected because I knew it was a long shot and you could say I did it for experimental purposes only. The rumors are true: Men prefer to make the first move. AND, women are in charge of letting them know when they want to be moved on. I tried to stick with the ones where the attraction was already mutual; then: let them think it's all their idea, let him talk you into going out with him, let him "win." Smile, laugh together. Done.
This is a much needed conversation more people should have.
Brilliant conversation… one of the best I’ve listened to. Scary stuff
For both men and women.
One of the best videos I've watched so far. Highly instructive and Vincent seems like a very knowledgeable and shrewd guy.
Vincent is so right about courage. I've learned this as a man. Even as a young boy, even if you're bleeding, you get back up and keep going. You get up that hill no matter how steep it is to go up. You give your best no matter what. Thanks for sharing this info. God bless you both , Chris and Vincent!
I think part of the problem is there are so many relationship gurus on both sides either spewing non-sense or convincing people to behave in ways that aren't authentic to them!
Yeah. It’s all power games, not about connecting on a genuine level. For a lot of people, desire equals power and being desired equals power. In my opinion, love is easier than desire because there is more choice in it. Both men and women, hetero being the assumption, confuse desire and love in younger years and accept less from themselves (generally men, because our attraction/sense of power lives in our confidence, domination, effectiveness, skills, etc) and also accept less from others (generally women’s power lies in her attractiveness, cooperation, being receptive, being passive, accepting/rejecting, drawing in the world)- these of course are generalizations, but ones that are often taken as serious/given facts- these of course have nothing to do with vulnerability and communication skills and wanting to generally connect with another person. The ideal is to have both, obviously, but it’s easier to vie for power because connection implies a sense of powerlessness via the vulnerability it requires, and usually vulnerability keeps the focus on our personal flaws, insecurities, fears, etc., which we generally don’t like to look at within ourselves, let alone show someone else- so power games are played when the easier thing to do is break through that fear (a mile high, a mile wide….but no one tells you that it is actually paper thin) of thinking you can’t connect if you allow someone to see you for you. In reality, it makes your job easier, because if you are yourself and you like who you are, then people can reject you for their own reasons and you can go on about your day because you know they weren’t right for you or they would have stayed, connected, worked it out, etc. Also, therapy helps- gets you out of your own head….which is the whole point of why dating sucks today. We’re all too scared to take romantic risks and instead play power games to stave off the pain of getting hurt. But, love implies the risk of getting hurt, so, there is no point in avoiding vulnerability- except in that will give you the false idea that avoiding it (vulnerability) is self protection. When, in reality, avoiding it only keeps one from connection to self and others. No one ever says vulnerability is more powerful than domination, but it is.
It’s like that movie Hitch.
100% agree
I can see that
@@repurposeyou starring Will Simp
What hurts is being misunderstood and ostracized by our older male figures when they can't understand why we have a hard time dating.
I'm younger but have had some difficulty understanding too, I'm also from a smaller conservative community dating us not as tarnished as outside maybe, but outside of the participation trophy culture mindset. Where everybody thinks they deserve the best without doing the work...is this not just men that are not getting women using a platform to speak, and I mean has it always been this way and just now The forgotten men have a voice? I mean have women not always wanted strong, valuable men?
@@bettermanchannel770 you are absolutely correct. I did not have a good upbringing and I was not raised to be strong so that's a big challenge for me to overcome as an adult. I was raised by a mother who coddled but also manipulated me to doubt myself so that's what come naturally to me and I've come a long way but you might not realize how difficult it is.
@@mikecsernyik7360 definitely had a similar mother, she did what she thought was correct and the best she knew, but actually did more harm in some aspects, very great woman in other aspects, just as flawed as the rest of us in other
@@bettermanchannel770 yeah and sometimes this type of content can only make men more discouraged instead of inspiring them to achieve more.
@@mikecsernyik7360 absolutely agree, fine line between realism and nihilism I suppose
This podcast is very appreciated! There are just too many videos that are talking about only one side, either male or female and this stream was just helpful have someone who is not bias to only one side. I think to solve our societal problems strong thinkers from both sides have to come together and try to get somewhere!
Thank you very much Chris for this video!
I've asked out two men, and was rejected both times. However, the second guy would have said yes, I think, if he wasn't already in a relationship. Obviously I didn't know that when I asked him. I handled both rejections very well because I went into the situations expecting rejection. "Hope for the best, plan for the worst". I sincerely wish both guys all happiness, and hold no hard feelings.
They rejected you because you over valued yourself. You are a 3 trying to date a 10. Problem is most women think they are a 10, when they are barely average.
@@khanhcao3123 men always have the same blanket argument that they think apply to every woman when it’s just a cope to not look inward or do any sort of personal reflection. Maybe you’re not getting picked cus youre ugly. Maybe it’s just cus you’re uninteresting or straight up creepy
@@khanhcao3123 that was very rude of you to say that to her.
@GrubbyArmadillo 98 I can thank you wonderful females on how to be rude. I learned from the very best.
@@khanhcao3123 I'm a dude. Plus, if she's a 3, then you're a 0.
G. K. Ghesterton “Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.” As a society we should be more careful of taking down the mores and traditions of the past.
The fence only came down when one group had the freedom and fortitude to take it down.
The past sucked for women who were financially dependent on and could not leave men who were often terrible fathers and partners, hell spousal rape wasn’t even considered rape until like 30 years ago.
Now women are independent and don’t want a relationship with a man who has unacceptable behavior, be it controlling, angry or narcissistic, who can’t pitch in his weight at home and who uses her as his personal assistant, house keeper, nanny and therapist. That is why it’s not surprising women initiate divorce more often or that single women live longer and are happier than married women.
The opposite is true for men. Sucks for men, but we’re never going back.
The mores and traditions of the past are what made billions of women miserable so we changed them, but instead of taking on equal share of relationship burden men sulk about women no longer being sexual pez dispensers and hunger for the good old days. It’s just sad. It’s like hungering to own slaves again.
If you think it’s bad that you can’t have a live in sex-maid anymore just be aware this is why we don’t choose you.
@Peregrine86
Agreed. It's better for women and we're never going back.
Nothing beats AUTONOMY .
Young women are realizing this and are not interested in marriage, and many married women divorce.
It's better to be alone than with an unsuitable man.
The basic metaphor of the conservative.
The liberal/lefty on the other hand would just demolish the fence; it _was_ in the way after all.
@@Peregrine86 Your comment made me actually look forward to an Islamic take over of society. Let's see how you feminist make out in that society...can you spell stoning.
This was an outstanding analysis, thank you both!
Hypergamy has always been around, however with the increase in technology like online dating and social media, it's skewed the normal hypergamy standards so much that now even the average woman is only going for top level men.
Even below average women still seek the highest qualified man
True. And all these high value men don't see them as a potential to date, just purely an momentary advantage to have sex
And the reverse is true, many average men will fantasies about 10/10 women.
@@plung3r They have fantasies but will definitely date average women . Most men don't won't Instagram woman . They just want a nice girl that attractive down to earth and nurturing . And most of all a woman that's not a slut with a insane body count
Yet how so many bottom half of men have partners?
I’ve asked out a few men and the ones that said no were so gentle and so kind with me, it wasn’t all that painful. If the rejection was loud and belittling I would have been a puddle on the floor.
Yeah, unfortunately when the roles are reversed, statisticaly men get laughed at when rejected. Kinda sucks.
He was kind, because he knows what it's like to be rejected. And no man, wants to treat a woman like shit or make them feel bad.
You should see when guys get rejected. It’s usually a flaming blaze of embarrassment 😂
Apparently this woman has more balls than all the men complaining here in the comments section
@@sargeklein Yup. Takes balls to pose a gym bathroom selfie.
People are losing social skills - I speak as a teacher here. It is not just with the opposite sex or with anyone of potential sexual interest . People are merging with technology period.
A terrifying thought with lots of merit, thanks for sharing =)
True, I find I am merging with it too, despite having good social skills.
@@feelingoffbalance stop merging ofc
I completely agree!
Agreed. Less rejection from technology. Additionally, the pandemic didn't help. Also speaking as a teacher.
Absolutely fascinating discussion! Great watch.
Great conversation. Keep them coming Chris.
If I had a dime for everytime a high level researcher and genius podcast guest cited Thomas Sowell as a basis for many of their logical underpinnings, I'd be super rich! Thomas Sowell is such a genius and national treasure and never got his due to his departure from the accepted narrative.
@@dzllzLast I knew he was still alive.
I think what is truly needed is education of the other sex and how to be in a relationship. Our perceptions are so horribly subverted by Disney, porn, the huge percentage of failed marriages we see and so much aggravation and suffering is either the partner not meeting your expectations or frustration at not knowing how to act yourself. The socially gifted can usually pick it up with a bit of experience but the less socially gifted or even those on the spectrum are going to have a worse time of it, especially if there's no example of a successful relationship in the home.
Yes, I agree that education is badly needed, but it’s difficult to formalise its provision: look at the mess already building in western schools and universities over race and gender identities: would you want the same educators training boys and girls how to be in relationships with one another? Better to push parents to explicitly discuss this with their own kids: all parents have their own flaws and biases, but at least the vast majority of them genuinely have their children’s best interests at heart.
How do you educate when your told you are a misogynist for just bringing up the subject?
@@stevec3526 let your child call you a misogynist and keep it pushing. Two things can exist. One can question why every woman has to play to the system while still creating a life that she enjoys in her own home.
@@politicomonsoon I am not talking about children.
@@stevec3526 if the person accusing you “matters” (e.g. family, teacher etc), politely ask them to clearly explain why setting male and female children up for successful relationships is misogynistic. If it’s your wife, inquire about what really attracted her to you in the first place: if she’s honest, the answer won’t be “he was a pushover”. If these are just random loudmouths throwing slander, their ill-founded opinions don’t matter, so just ignore them: that’s a chance to practise your own disagreeability!
A lot of this still pushes the "the guys are losers, the girls are fine" notion that is just untrue. OnlyFans shows how many pathetic men are out there but it's funny when Vincent who is a data guy doesn't go into the numbers of the Pareto principle and a massive amount of women only choose the ultra high level guy, hence the complaint of women having ludicrous standards. A lot of men are ledt out in the cold through no fault of their own but at the mercy of increasingly social demands of what's considered an attractive male.
Bitter much?
Most of this dating content is gynocentric.
The truth is, people do not give a single fuck about the wrongdoings of women.
No one puts the onus on women to do pretty much anything.
Women are taught how to treat their partners. Women are not told how to make themselves more attractive.
Women are not judged for being slutty.
The truth is, that even though men are not anymore responsible for any of this than women are, men will always get called out.
People are not interested in hearing about anything that criticizes women at all.
Funny though is that many are still musing and mulling all over this.
Pathetic men are pathetic men, anyone who has a backbone and grit can and will walk away.
Exactly this, I'm a woman and I'm disgusted at the endless impossible lists women who are dating give to theor partners without having net any of the criteria themselves, I sit a dinners watching women click their fingers and tap their wine glasses AT their men and the man must RUN to refill their glass at the snap of that finger, the men must be gorgeous, over 6 foot tall, must cook, must clean, must be university educated, must earn a 6 figure salary, must be masculine but in touch with his feminine side, must have no emotional bagge, must be interested in the same things/hobbies, must be nice, must be hug like horse, must be kind, must be generous, must...must must must must- and what do the women contribute? Mostly, they may be educated and work, and some put some make up on, but they don't contribute very much in terms of cooking/cleaning/treating their partner right, they think they "deserve" instead of reciprocate, you've got a 600 pound, short unkempt woman, who doesn't cook, clean, work, is a single mom, screaming and crying thay no man wants them. Women, nkw days do not reciprocate in the relationship and sexual dynamic of their relationship and lifestyle: they think just their presence and existence is enough- women are looking for husbands- but men are looking for WIVES too, you cannot possibly hold a man to higher standard than you hold yourself and attempt to "enforce" these standards when you don't live up to them yourself.
@@jeans398 - it's all over, Western civilisation is in terminal decline. Caucasian women are down to less than 1.4 children instead of a steady replacement of 2.1. Choose who to blame I guess, but Briffaults Law asserts the number of children born is determined by the women. Most discussions don't go further than be about the symptoms and social malaise and not how the 'lower' 80+% of men are just disposable resources; Western womenfolk (broadly speaking) are perfectly fine with that.
Storming the beaches of Normandy was not an individual decision. You get on the troop ship because your group is getting on the ship, not because, upon reflection, you determine that getting on the troop ship is how you are expressing mastery of your emotions to do what needs to be done. The same with climbing down the cargo nets and exiting the landing craft. You are doing what your group is doing because you are too scared to do anything else.
Similarly, dating used to be a public, group activity. You dated, in part, because your group dated.
Great point I never considered even as I heard the analogy. Group dynamic and "doing something just because everyone else is" is so incredibly powerful to overcome individual fear.
That's a really interesting point. Internet dating literally puts dating on your own in your own home. Dances, village fates etc were group dating as well as others giving you the courage they might also introduce you to friends of their date
As a woman I can admit that being rejected can feel humiliating because we learn that men are supposed to generally want women, so it makes you feel that something is wrong with you. On the other hand, I really respect men who are not too easy to get, who have standards and self-control AND my attachment style is on the avoidant side (so I may feel a sense of security and relief when being rejected by strangers - which is probably kinda toxic 😅). ANYWAY, I loved this conversation. Super interesting 🙏🏼
Nowadays the most sensible thing for me is to avoid women at all costs. At work specially. They’re quite twisted and toxic in general. Life is so much brighter this way
you can´t deal with rejection like a man can because as usual we are better than you at everything. including moving on from rejections. you really are a 4th class citizen after children, men and dogs
I've adopted the extream avoidant style most men. Choose these days.
I see a women, I walk the other way. LITERALLY.
Ill exit an elevator just to avoid them. I can't speak for the whole country, but around here women. Are fat, lazy , toxic, and misandrus best avoided.
I gonna be honest we men only reject the pig ugly ones 😮😢😂...only joking.
That's quite the ramble.
It is not about being disagreeable. It is about standing your ground and have self love/integrity. Sometimes you can agree, if you truly agree.
The aversion to personal suffering also explains the growth of the modern, omnipotent state that will provide for us in all our mediocrity.
This dude is crazy smart. Loved this episode.
So much interesting stuff to dive into here. I've listened to a few of your videos now, and I really like how neutral they are. A lot of videos discussing these topics have a hard time not dipping into fundamentally blaming one of the sexes, so it's nice to see a more sober attitude.
Personally I think this is a complex issue. I'm aware that a lot of guys find it hard to get a girl on dating apps but as a girl, while sure I get a lot more messages, finding a guy who wants to actually date and will even follow through is the hard part. Most guys on apps just want sex and I'm more into dating. So what may seem like a great scenario for most guys is not so fun for a monogamous girl seeking a relationship. I think the main point of concern for men and women alike is that many people have given up on romance/love. But tbh casual sex doesn't have much appeal to me. I want a real connection with someone.
No offense but when casual sex is as easy as it usually is for women, of course at some point it's not satisfying by itself, you will end up craving for more affection and connection. It's human. You can choose to have a phase of casual sex, no dating, after a break up for example. It's not the case for men. It's the opposite, man have to be sexually opportunistic and if they were always honest about their intentions their smaller chances of having sex would be reduced even more. In men's sexual perspective, classic prostitution has always existed for sexual initiation and to compensate this sexual opportunity gap.
Men are petrified of relationships now. Social media, ethot era and red pill content dominates UA-cam now.
There are plenty of men who want relationships, you've more than likely run into them; I'd bet a good amount of money you weren't attracted to them for "reasons" (weird, nerdy, overweight, awkward, broke, bad haircut lol etc etc). Which is absolutely fine! But you can't turn a goodlooking turn a Chad millionaire into a husband. And the more variables you add to your "list" the rarer that person is. (every woman has a list).
example (made up numbers) good hair 1/6 men; 6 figures 1/1000 men; college degree 3/5 men; religious 1/5 men; very attractive 1/200 ; 6 feet tall man in the USA 1/1000 - chance of having all 6 in 1 individual? 1/6 x 1/1000 x 3/5 x1/5 x 1/200 x 1/1000 = roughly 1 in 2million. What you want and what you need to make you happy are rarely the same thing. Wisest thing my parents taught me. Make a sensible list, talk to married couples and you'll quickly figure out what is actually important. You might even learn some skills you're lacking that are making you undesirable to men who want long term functional relationships. Worked for me =) GL!
Unfortunately for women dating apps have turned into an advantage for men. Historically the old conservative system was sex after marriage, which encouraged men to settle down early and women looked for productive partners which encoraged men to have skills and life plans. We now live in a liberal era where sex is pervasive and has in fact become 'masculine'. That is to say as a man if I want sex I hit a few buttons on my phone and effectively order it via a 'dating' app. That's where my needs end, as does the interaction.
@@limoncr5205 exactly. Even if the majority of the guys a woman chooses are only into sex, therefore the chances aren't that high, at least she has a chance.
Most men don't have the slightliest chance to bond in any way...
This discussion was exceptionally informative, especially bc it was based on hard data. Similar to the one with Rob Henderson. Congrats! 👏🏻
This presentation of information, perspectives, and the viability of solutions is outstanding.
always a pleasure to listen to these interviews
This entire conversation scares the shit out of me. I live in a really small town too so it’s even worse. I feel so hopeless and depressed about the lack of meaningful relationships not just in my own life but around me. Useless guys and hyper disagreeable single moms everywhere
If what you really want isn't in that town, you'll probably have to leave to get it. Plain & simple.
Maybe you could find work at a volunteer site or on a cruise ship.
Here's a thought. Woman will clearly show if they are interested in a guy even if social norms dictate he makes the first move. If he can read these obvious signs and approaches her, he won't get rejected at least at first. After that it's about vibe and compatibility which is complex and multi tiered. Perhaps some guys are not happy when they understand that the woman who are actually interested in them are less attractive than they were expecting, ignore them, and continue to get rejected by woman out of their league. Some will actually get a woman they think is out of their league but realize soon after they carry a lot of esteem and mental health issues and it doesn't work out. Maybe the self esteem movement made people think they have way more available choices than they actually do, and evolutionary biology will continue to burst their bubbles.
Self esteem movement is so objective
childhood trauma and realisation of triggers is more important
Thank you so much for this. This was fascinating.
Woman here 👋 rejection hurts for us too and is far more motivating than this conversation gives credit to - however, the rejection that is most motivating is intrasexual. Many of these women who can’t get a boyfriend bc they’re going for the wrong guys AREN’T happy about being single. But what are they going to do? The pressure they perceive from other women and society is so strong that it’s virtually impossible to fight it. Hypergamy certainly plays a role here but it only answers part of this question.
In order to get rejected you have to approach and break the ice. Standing in the corner and seeking eye contact and calling it "game" is far from taking a risk and approaching. Most women don't have the guts or are brave to approach a man. Also don't blame society and others. Just take accoubtibility for being less of a independent thinker and having a more sheep mindset and not a lone wolf mindset. There are alot of biological facts behind why women are less of independent thinkers
Yeah, the amount of married women that approach me willing to drop their current husbands is astounding, and you want to blame it on peer pressure, that society is pressuring them to be so incredibly immoral that they would treat someone they've promised to love for eternity like trash because your friends think you deserve better. wow you think that's okay? i don't.
@@BloodySeranadeI wonder if that's actually an effect of internet porn having massively changed people to focus on lust too much.
“Only when you have lost everything you’re free to do anything”
Extremely honest and insightful conversation. Awesome
Fundamentally, the issue we have today comes down to Socialisation. Women are now being socialised to become masculine and men are being socialised to become feminine. If you can reverse that then you might see a return to equilibrium.
HOW?!
@@lennard5393 Feminist are subconsciously forcing this one,while so many boys are niw being raised by single mothers who are simply incapable of instilling "manliness " into them,in turn making them much more feminine. Why do you think there are so many men watching only fans,butthurt incels who simply are incapable of changing for better, etc.?
"Get Woke, Go Broke" started with people noticing that "woke" movies where consistently under-performing at the box office. To be more specific, movies that were remakes of former more traditionally troped films.
You mean "bad ideological propaganda wearing a good movie skin suit"? 😝
Define "woke" please?💭
@@simphiwe4930 anything social justice warrior-y? Identity politics, cultural Marxism, black lives matter/ANTIFA movements, political correctness, etc
You are assuming the premise that a movie is made for profit motives as its primary goal, are you so certain that that is a true and valid premise.
"You are assuming the premise that a movie is made for profit motives as its primary goal, are you so certain that that is a true and valid premise."
Very good point; just had a similar discussion over lunch.
The knowledge Chris has on demand is impressive. I'm just commenting to simp the algo after watching his last 10ish interviews in the last week. 😁
Great talk between the two of you. I'm a man in my 30s that hasn't even tried to start a family. This does not embitter me but it hasn't been made me psychologically healthy even when I try to ignore it.
I seriously don't know how to play the game...
Solitude has given you some insight? What's your plans of dating or not dating
Same. I'm almost 30. I have not been in a relationship ever. Now that I have a good job and stability, I would like to, but How to even start? I have no idea.
Enjoy the decline.
I’m in my early 40s and in exactly the same situation as you. What I’ve done is started to work on my side hustles and make myself busy by creating products like books and online courses on topics that interest me. The revenue is slow (and small) so far, but I am living off my savings from my last job.
The reason I quit my comfortable (and high-paying job) is because there was no point in working harder and harder when I have no family to support, and very minimal living costs. To me, it was a no brainier to spend my time doing what I enjoy, and hopefully create a business out of it.
My thoughts are that if I meet a nice girl, we can date etc, but I will not risk my savings and assets by getting married. When you live in a no-fault divorce world, this is a very stupid decision.
I came up with a healthy attitude about marriage and family when I was a little fella eating my Cheerios: "I don't wanna get married 'cause I don't wanna get divorced!" The family and marriage game is rigged against men through the legal system.
It's frustrating when the "incel" subject comes up, because it's always linked to those two people who weren't actually apart of a group, any other frustrated/dysfunctional male, and violence. Comparatively, as if no other loosely or directly associated group actually commits or promotes violence and is socially sanctioned or omits its actual the pervasiveness, such as "kill all men". Then the "No true feminist" rhetoric comes out But let's avoid that discussion as much as possible. "That (insert threat narrative) group over there is a much easier target."
Those two guys are Alek Minnasian and Elliot Rodger. Both were autistic, socially dysfunctional, one of them were already violent before news coverage, and the other heavily bullied. One of them, showed no evidence of being on incel forums. Meaning, people hear made up stuff, don't verify it, and run with it out of the conveniences of that supporting a social scapegoat. Kind of like the actual Norse mythology of Loki as a scapegoat).
Of the two, on became a child of sudden divorce and got a neglectful step mother. But lets avoid that entirely, there's no trend of violent dysfunctional adjustments in the millions across generations that comes from that. He claimed he was a member of the "encel movement", but there was no evidence of such claim other than him stating so. Dead give away is incel forums isnt a movement andis a coping group, ironically, they/no one wants to remain in. People ran with it anyway.
By that standard, anyone who claim to be member of group is automatically a part of that group, right? Inversely, as long as someone doesn't claim they or someone else is member of a group, that also must hold true. We damn well know it doesn't work that way with the propaganda streams and threat narratives for the common accepted scapegoating abound. Don't we? Or at least to the degree people allow themselves to omit those thoughts. He committed suicide by cop, which seems to be the MO of those who leave a manifesto behind before they unalive themselves. If he did so in a silently hotel bathtub no would have heard of this guy like many men eventually do in silent despair, that'll also go on omitted from public discourse.
The other guy was bullied to the point he snapped. So basically, he's in line with most mass shooters, but due the culture of Canada he didn't have a gun, he had a vehicle. Uh oh, ban all assault vehicles. None of is taken seriously, it's all a mass superficial bandaid to hide festering wounds of inconvenient truths and pass on to the next generation.
The problem is that somehow the majority of people still flip it on the same incels and tell them its their own fault, when its both men and women who mock and ridicule these so called incels to the point of drooping out of society
Tbh I didn’t even know any of those details until you laid it out here, and now it frustrates me even more that society can just slap someone with the title of “incel” and all of a sudden conversation about *what exactly happened* halts as we can just say “oh ok he was just an incel, he just hated women”
Brilliant Episode! Apologies for the Essay, lol.
I am really glad to see these topics approached and spoken about by more and more men looking to help other men and women. These false, idealistic narratives hurt men and they hurt women as well.
The men keep making mistake after mistake with women, convinced it's their fault that they can't get it right. In reality they have been lied to so much about women that they cannot tell which way is up or down. Feeling lost, angry for being lied to, guilty, and eventually so depressed they give up on women and society or worse...
The same for women. They hurt themselves. Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain and thousands of unnamed men and women who may have never felt anyone cared about them and suffer in their loneliness
... alone.
The women eventually end up alone as well. Forever not understanding why men don't want to get married or have relationships with them. The anxiety and depression hits them around their late 20's and early 30's. Not realizing that casual sex with dozens and even hundreds of men may not be good for them. Cheating on every boyfriend and girlfriend they had and killing their ability to pair bond and form long lasting relationships. Just keep chasing the next sexual high like any other addiction.
The women turning to more addiction like boxed wine for breakfast and way too many cats. Often on every dating site treating men like a shopping list to be checked off at the man store and not seeing men's humanity. Not as a person but, as a thing to be purchased. Why would any man want that? What is in it for him to have a relationship or a marriage with someone like that? Then always saying "Where have all the good men gone?"
The men don't want a relationship with someone who treats them as a thing less then human. The very same women end up on every pharmaceutical drug from companies happy to "cure" their depression, for a price, to help them continue being so "Strong and Independent" with there new "Freedoms" (Responsibility with consequences) filled with tens and often hundreds of thousands in debt. There is no freedom in being broke and poor.
The men turn to drinking, video games and "The Pron" wink wink...
With these videos, there is atleast a chance of waking atleast some people up. Letting both sexes see how truly harmful these ideologies and false narratives, created by the most bitter of women and encouraged by the very weakest of men, really are. That it is causing the misery in their lives... If one video provides hope for a way out of this mess and saves a man or women from checking out early, then please make more.
As a woman, I’ve been rejected and it doesn’t feel good. But, you tell yourself what you need to in order to bounce back. If I got rejected as much as a man gets rejected, I honestly don’t know if I would bounce back. Men have it way more difficult to maintain their self esteem while constantly getting rejected. Maybe there needs to be a mindset shift? That rejection isn’t bad, it’s just part of the natural order of things for my men? Btw- as a woman, I hate to see so many men lose their spirit when it comes to dating… This isn’t good, for society, or for women, or for future generations. I’m glad this podcast exists, we need to talk more about this topic.
How did you approach?
@@valentingartner3793 all types of ways, clubs, parties, even online dating presents situations where a woman can get rejected. A guy can ghost you or not text/call you back. I’ve slept with a guy once and then he stopped talking to me afterwards. Feeling rejected is subjective, everyone experiences it differently.
@@smitty1919 he stopped talking to you afterwards? that’s just horrible, absolutely disgusting. Why did you end up sleeping with each other?
By “how did you approach?” I actually wanted to know what exactly you did and said.
When it comes to approaching and getting rejected, women don’t seem to get what we mean by that. To us approaching explicitly means going up to a stranger you’re attracted to, introducing yourself and making your intentions clear "Hey what’s up? My name is … I thought you’re cute so I want to get to know you better."
If she then either ignores you or tells you to get lost, says she’s not interested, pretends to have a boyfriend, starts asking you embarrassing questions or just laughs at you; that’s what men mean by “getting rejected”.
@@valentingartner3793 I think that kind of cold call approach can seem creepy, it has to be done right. Starting up a conversation naturally works better. Hence why guys like to have cute dogs, because women will come up to you and ask about your dog. I also think woman are more open to this dating approach if you two are part of a shared activity, i.e games at a bar or meetup events.
@@smitty1919 women attending those kind of shared activities are always taken; I don’t get how telling someone you like them can be seen as creepy. That’s just beyond me.
There's a reason the culture surrounding relationships was so rigid in the past, that is with things like arranged marriage and men and women being introduced to people within family or friendly circles. It was less common and generally frowned upon for men and especially women to "date around" back in the day, and generally this lead to more marriages and family's forming which is ultimately good for the continuation of a civilization, I think.
The internet and more freedom in general has destroyed this culture though, which is why things are falling apart. Mortar is a rigid substance, it's not crumbly or fluid, and once it does begin to break down and crumble it jeopardizes the integrity of the entire structure.
because giving women the option to chose who they want to date or marri will have them fail 99% of the times. Arranged marriages worked way better than what we have today, women are choosing the "chad's and tyrone's" and giving them babies and those dudes don't want to commit to just 1 woman so unless the option of choice magically disappears things are not going to turn out for the better
Ultimately, Dostoeyevsky characterized it best, live a MEANINGFUL life not a HAPPY ONE. Happiness is fleeting, if you spend your entire life chasing happiness you'll be miserable bc life has its hardships. Live a meaningful life instead, you wont get what you want all the time, you wont be happy all the time, you will suffer at points, but you'll be able to carry on
Civilisation is actually dictated by a bipolar system of traditionalism and progressivism. History isn't a straight line, but rather a circle, in which we shift between the poles of traditional society and progressive society. Human beings are curious in the sense that we are astoundingly capable of creating systems which contradict our more primal desires. Notice how something like an arranged marriage has to be deliberately "arranged" or to be more blunt, enforced? By contrast, if people are left to their own devices, things always seem to devolve into chaos where the women are seeking, by their majority of numbers, nothing more than the most physically attractive and domineering men (the top percentile) while leaving the rest of society's men in the dust. This is the kind of situation we might expect in an uncivilised environment. But there is a problem when human beings are able to live on the fruits of civilisation while not contributing to it, which leads to its downfall. We cannot simply have our cake and eat it too. The whole point of traditional society and tradition in general is to maintain what is good after it was created, but exhaustion inevitably sets in and people rebel against the rigidity of tradition and just want to live their lives without regard for the consequences. Then, after society falls apart, we will return to tradition, bloodied and broken by nothing other than our own self-destructive lifestyles, realising that progressivism cannot sustain a civilisation and that traditionalism was right all along. And then even after that we will repeat the same cycle once again... And again... And again...
@@petemacquarie7961 I think there’s nuance to that. Not all traditions are beneficial (e.g. society at large believed the world was flat, Sun moved around the earth etc ) and you have to always question why a belief system is there, otherwise you just get authoritarianism. I see a lot of ‘nostalgia porn’ for the past these days with folks discontent on how things are in the present, but that is nothing new and the past is a lot less ideal then we often realise.
@@RedDevilStudio @Red Devil Studio don't misunderstand, I'm not saying we should try to stick with traditional society indefinitely (that's impossible anyway). This is why I describe history as a circle and not a line. We will invariably come to tire ourselves of tradition and also find some of them to be little more than baseless superstition, but the problem with that is that it causes us to throw it all in the bin eventually. There is no right or wrong system for us when "right" and "wrong" both come to mean entirely different things as history progresses.
This conversation is so good. I was going to leave a comment about rejection and then you both asked for the women to comment about rejection. Anyways I’ve asked a few men out even when I was in high school I asked out my crush and he said no and I always thought afterwords that was a rush, like that felt good and you know the worst thing that could happen was he said no. I don’t know I just never took it personally. And if I hadn’t told my husband I was into him who knows how long it would have taken him. You don’t get what you want if you don’t ask.
@@sunkillsmoon yeah can definitely ruin our lives.. I usually don’t approach if they dont even make eye contact. But with the ones that do i still iffy about it. Cause a man in this country is always looked as the bad guy no matter what
@@sunkillsmoon On behalf of my gender I would like to apologize. I know there are a lot of messed up women out there and I get so embarrassed for how they act. It actually makes it harder for the good women to get asked out by guys because so many guys are so cautious nowadays because of these screwed up women. So these women make life harder for both men and women. What a time we live in.
The commenters on this are spot on. Us men fear not the rejection as much but what comes after. Girl gossips to her friends about you, calling you weird and creep and her friends gossip to their friends and next thing you know they're all laughing at you and your pictures because they don't find you attractive. It's F'd. Women are so mentally brutal. A man can kill a woman with his hands, a woman can kill a man with her words.
@@wombat5252 it hurts but it's not death. Also, you guys, hit on mature ladies who don't do that shit
@@AmandaMG6 I’m not trying to date a grandma. Jokes aside how the fuck can a guy know what a “mature” woman looks like?? They don’t necessarily make themselves known, especially if it’s a cold approach scenario
I'm 6' 1" tall, dark hair, more hansom than average (I've had many compliments over the years of having a strong, attractive jaw line) and though I don't have a six pack or huge biceps I do take decent care not to let myself turn into an obese turd. I don't have any college degrees and I'm on the lower income end of the spectrum. All this to say I Never could catch a break with women and land a relationship. I could barely manage to get a date and I always took the initiative. After taking stock of my experiences, observations and what I could see and hear what other men were experiencing in marriage/relationships and learning about female nature, I realized the dating scene is basically hopeless. There seemed to be a general suspicion that anyone who isn't part of the top 10-20% of men doesn't have a realistic chance of finding a woman and furthermore that even if you do find one, that modern women are of such a low quality that they are now more trouble than they're worth and that the statistical risks/costs outweigh the potential benefits. At 26 years young I saw the writing on the wall, accepted the harsh reality and completely dropped out of the dating market. Part of me is sorry but I've got the feeling (especially when talking to other male friends who've been down the same road) that it's only sparing me from wasted time, energy, disappointment and heart ache as well as some potentially terrible, raw deals in the context of marriage. The state of the dating/relationships market is truly sad to see and yes it probably will have to get worse before it gets better. Only after enough pain and suffering has registered will society start to come to it's senses. I hope the future generations of young men and women can figure it out and get it right where we got it so horribly wrong.
Yes, don't focus on women. Level yourself up, for yourself.
What sort of women were you going after ?
@@dantesparda7719 Level yourself up, for yourself.
@@dantesparda7719 he's right about this one. If your health is shit, your family life will be shit as well. It might be, that we die without family and/or children, but my last reward will be a healthy and natural end of my life, maybe in my castle with a group of playmates...😉
Joking aside! You guys have any idea, how many of these modern women will sit in nursing homes in 30-40 years?? This whole changing of the western society, dating, family, etc world will change also the old statistics! Women used to live longer, because since the industrial revolution home life was not that hard. I mean since when are we using washing machine, electric coocker, etc...?
I don't want to be old and laying in a bed surrounding by a bounch of modern 49er.
I levelling up me, for myself, because I want to live a straight, healthy life. I don't date anymore on old, don't give free stars, likes, smileys, victoria secret points.
If a woman find me IRL, it's her luck, not mine.
I'm 38 now, no family, no debts, engineer, 6 pack! Do I have every week a new date? Of course not! I wouldn't have the time anyway...
@@dantesparda7719 Of course I can't tell you any number, but we should look the statistics of the relationships, marriages, etc. Many people (men, women) choose the single life in these days. They will aging without family, kids. So I think many more, comparing these years.
I hope nothing horrible will happen long before, because I want to enjoy my retirement. Just like you I guess.
Vincent is a very sharp and switched on guy with a very good understanding and overview of what is really going on out there
Opening the conversation with Nerd VS Geek is the best thing ever.
This is so interesting!
I've definitely seen my male friends commit less the more money they make.
Female friends I've seen continue to date men that are within that top percentile. It's so frusterating! They then both go on to wonder why they can't find someone of "quality".
God I'm happy I'm married 😅
good job.
Women are hypergamous and don't want normal guys. Much of what we as a society are suffering with is due to this female selectivity. Men had to earn their ability to attract women. Women were just born with value. Mem had to earn it. Women also initiate about 70-90% of divorces despite initiating the majority of domestic violence and cheat as much or more than men.
To be fair though, it is no fun being poor. My first husband had zero ambition and that caused a lot of stress and problems. I can see why women are wanting to be with a man who has his shit together.
@@Mmmmkaaay Nobody is arguing that men aren’t supposed to make value and provide in a relationship. I think the point is that women that get lots of higher education are setting themselves up for disappointment when they find there is a small and dwindling pool of men with equal or higher education levels, AND meet the other criteria they wants. EDIT: Happy I’m married to a woman that is educated, but also saw the potential I had. EDIT 2: Social media, and the media in general has HUGE impact on the decision that so many young women are making to make their career the number one thing in their life, and either delay or to never start a family.
I think this, and the overall negativity against men played out over the media and social media makes a lot of young men look at seeking a mate to be too dangerous to do. How I see the media when it comes to the sexes is this: Men are bad, women are strong, independent, and don’t really even need men anymore.
My dad always told me: talk is cheap, follow through is everything.
This was a great podcast for laypersons who are just getting into the social science and economics of the modern dating scene. But it's all basically review for anyone who's spent a significant amount of time researching it. It's a good summary to send to your normie friends or your mom who's pressuring you to marry the neighbor girl who is like 2.5 points higher than you on the looks scale and trying to explain why that's unlikely.
I would argue that there are 4 pillars of masculinity Capability, purpose, virtue, and respect
@@realistic_delinquent I thought about that, but I thought that honor was too dependent on the beliefs of others. I ment respect as to treat others with respect and also receive respect, so respect is half you and half others.
Are you guys even in relationships? I feel like this intellectual approach misses the mark.
My advice is for men to learn what they truly admire and want in their life. Find friends who are willing to tell you the truth and can help you with your blind sides.
Relationships work when people pay attention to eachother and love eachother. Women generally don't want a atm machine that despises them.
It's about how you're able to make a woman feel. How she makes you feel.
Very true. One of my goals as a woman was to make enough money as a woman, so I had the luxury of being with a quality man regardless of his income or income potential. Wanting a particular man is far more sexy than needing one.
An ATM with a heart lmao.
@WatchEuropaTheLastBattle That's not been my experience. I'm not a keyboard warrior, I've been a highly successful Real Estate for the past 25 years in an affluent area of California. So, my clients are predominantly in the top 5% of income in the USA. So, I have a front row seat to know who people are married to, their educational background, their finances and their credit rating and consumption habits.
Nearly all of my clients are dual income, I have had less than 20 clients where the wife was a stay at home mother who cared for their children. Most of my clients are in the tech sector of Silicon Valley and are married to other people at their same level With the median sales prices of homes being 1.4 million in my area for an average home, it is essential that both couples make strong salaries.
The fantasy for many people is that one will go to college and meet their partner there and have 2 children and be together for 50 years. Typically if one marries at a younger age, they will typically find that they will be divorced by their early 30's. Many of my clients have found their second wife or husband at work or through friends. Most people associate with people at the same level or somewhat higher. Many men and women delay marrying until they are in their late twenties to early 30's and they generally have a higher success rate in their marriage succeeding. Of these, most have no more than 2 children. Many don't want any children at all, they are more accomplishment based.
I never had a calling to be a mother, my husband is 15 years younger than me and he never wanted children either. We both are in the same career and we have a very full life. He was approached by many young women while we were first dating, but he had zero interest in them. He said what attracted him to me was my confidence, he found many younger women insecure and needy. He is a confident man as well, so while to some we may be an atypical couple, there are others like us.
In my area there are only 2 types of people working at Mac Donald's those under 18 who are going to college and those post retirement age looking to supplement their retirement pension.
Thank you and congrats on the 500.000, Chris!
Wow, I love to hear when I buck a trend. 45 year old widow, not on anti depressents. Happily childfree. Living in the woods with my dogs and cat, log fire and internet.
@Chris Williamson• are you a Nigerian prince by any chance?
@@charlottebennett2202 🤣
@@charlottebennett2202 wow that must be so peaceful. I used to live in the countryside of ottawa without any humans around for atleast 50 minutes. It was super peaceful.
This is the way
Yes! It's the best strategy if you accept your loneliness and move along that way. Perfect! Especially accepting your child free dao