Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Companions | EDHREC Room
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- Companions - offering new deckbuilding restrictions, putting EDH into other formats, and the ultimate banning of Elemental Otters. Joey, Matt, and Dana provide their thoughts on the Companion mechanic, and which ones may become the most popular in EDH, either as a Companion or as a commander.
Follow the cast on Twitter:
@EDHRECast
@JosephMSchultz
@danaroach
@mathimus55
edhrec.com/
The main discussion from players who want to play the otter 11:50 is that the current "banned" list for commander is not exclusionary. They removed the "banned as commander", which would make this fine - "banned as companion". But a lot of people are really sad they can't play this in the 99 or as commander without first discussing with their play group or having to explain it.
I can't go to an event and just play with the otter in the 99 or as commander without first asking/ensuring that its ok (no one has issues with the card in 99 or as commander).
Great video! Just think that point is worth mentioning in regards to this ban and the complaints.
I think I saw the Oathbreaker ruling on companions and really with the CRC would adopt it. It was something to the effect of there is not sideboard in Oathbreaker so just play them in the main deck. No bans needed.
Canadian Highlander did the same.
Yeah seems like what should be banned is the keyword mechanic "Companion" IMO.
29:38 Yeah it radically changes the card but would it be broken if that happened?
31:55 one other note on Gyruda; if it's your companion Void Winnower shuts off your whole deck which is not great . . .
Yes! I like this less structured version as it allows y'all to keep up with the times and happenings and still put out a podcast. Also, I'm always eager to here your views as I think that y'all have some of the most nuanced and well researched opinions around. Keep up the great work!
I strongly feel like either companion just shouldn’t work in commander, or sideboards should be allowed for cards like wishes and WAR Karn. To me it’s just a matter of principle. The rules should be consistent one way or the other.
agree
Disagree. The implications of adding companion are minute, some decks get a companion. If you allow some decks to have sideboards, all decks have sideboards. If you have a card that steals a creature, a planeswaler or something that steals sorceries, it is strictly correct to have a sideboard. It is a change for 10 cards in magic history.
But the rules are consistent with the new wording... Maybe what you mean is the general sense of what the RC is trying to impose on similar cards... And with that I disagree... The only restriction of all the legal companions in EDH that I feel is iffy is the Selesnya one... The others are actually interesting to try to build on... It's not going to try to homogenize decks in EDH unlike what we saw with Gyruda in the early access of Standard...
Also unlike wishes, you know what you'll get with the companion... With wishes, they can bring whatever effect that they feel they are not necessary for their deck in all games, hence why the RC doesn't want them...
Firefox is so sweet. The art is cool, the effect is cool, just ignore the companion clause
That's the best solution to companion I think.
Firefox is much better than Firefox :P
well, there is a companion he works super well with and that is marath. With the new cryptic Trilobie, Heliod/Balista line, Selvala(both)/Umbral mantle line, faeburrow elder and staff of domination going infinite and so on. I think there is an actual cEDH Marath Deck that can use him. Also it might be decent in kelsien the plague and a more interesting version to build him. maybe with tariel in the deck, use those untap synergies to first kill the creatures, then reanimate them with tariel.
Edit: I will play Zirda as a goodboi commander.
I don't know, I feel Companion is a fun commander-style insert for other formats, and it still hits 8 out of 10 for cards playable in commander,
Then again, I also enjoy chewing on metal
I just want to point out, the “Companion Zone” isn’t a thing that exists. They still exist out side the game, but the rules were reworded so that cards can’t bring OTHER cards from outside the game into it. These cards bring themselves from outside the game into, which is how they made them work, without allowing Wishes to function. One of the first points made is that they didn’t like the implementation, but I think this is a pretty elegant way to do it. Additionally, this allows for future cards that bring themselves into the game from outside it to function in Commander the same way these do.
I think companions are a cool concept and i like that they are very restrictive so that we dont see them all the time. i don't plan to use any of them as companions but i will definitely get two of the 5c elks for my Jodah and Sisay decks as part of the 99. Maybe a Gyruda for my Phenax if i can make room for it. Lurrus might be useful in my Elenda deck as well.
Honestly, I'd really just rather companions be banned from commander. Like. they could still be in your 99, but in terms of the mechanics, it seems to me that it's both a) trying to insert commanter-like mechanics into other formats, which is superfluous in commander, and b) it seems to do what partner commanders do, but worse, and I already don't like partner commanders (though I'm more open to the battlebond/C20 "Partner with" options). But honestly, if commander is to be a sideboardless format, allowing companions to work the same as in standard/other formats just seems like a capitulation to WotC from the Rules Committee, so that the Ikoria cards have a place in commander (outside the 99), and I don't really like that.
I am planning on avoiding both Companions and Mutate - tooo confusing and limiting. I might use some of the Companions in the 99 (Zirda), but not as a Companion (except for Kaheera). Thanks for the explanation and exploration of the Companions.
They should just add "Companion does not function in Commander" to Rule 11.
It's the cleanest, simplest, most consistent way to handle the situation and makes the banning of Lutri unnecessary.
Corey Roberson 100% agreed
These cards offer awesome versatility. Obosh for example would just be a good win condition in the 99. Lurris is great recursion for a low to the ground deck. I'm hyped.
Yorion being end of turn helps your creatures dodge your own wraths.
Blink Yorion to blink your whole board, then cast a board wipe. Your creatures come back unscathed but your enemies are screwed
18:20 Correct, {R/G} and {U/R} are not the same mana symbol. Rule 107.4 covers this.
107.4. The mana symbols are {W}, {U}, {B}, {R}, {G}, and {C}; the numerical symbols {0}, {1}, {2}, {3}, {4}, and so on; the variable symbol {X}; the hybrid symbols {W/U}, {W/B}, {U/B}, {U/R}, {B/R}, {B/G}, {R/G}, {R/W}, {G/W}, and {G/U}; the monocolored hybrid symbols {2/W}, {2/U}, {2/B}, {2/R}, and {2/G}; the Phyrexian mana symbols {W/P}, {U/P}, {B/P}, {R/P}, and {G/P}; and the snow symbol {S}.
Regarding Yorion, I like that he can allow your ETB deck to be in full defensive gameplay; Brago, even with his flying needs to consider the combat step, whereas Yorion works will all of the 1 time use flicker spells in white and blue. In fact, Yorion + any Archaeomancer variant + Any flicker instant, and you have a cheap engine (often 1-2 mana) that can simulate the Brago trigger. It just feels more synergistic
Not sure if someone has mentioned it yet, but the Macrosage only cares about permanent CMC's not spells. You can still play cyc rift and Path to Exile
27:39 I love how they mention not playing 3 cards I choose not to play as their examples of cards you give up. I know it’s a personal thing, but it’s just funny to me how something that’s a non-factor when I build my decks is painful to imagine
Definitely! I love these guys, but hearing them whine about not being able to play cyclonic rift and Sol ring made me cringe. Be creative! Mix up your decks! Try breaking the mold every once and a while.
I think companions are interesting.
I've only tried them in Standard so far, but I've made some silly decks that just tick much faster with them.
As for EDH, I don't think the restrictions are worth it (for most of them), in order to have a fully functioning deck. I'm sure people will find ways to break them (e.g Zirda), but they seem like they'll simply lead to fun build-around cards. Personally, I'm going to try making a Kelsien/Zirda deck and hopefully it pans out!
Can you do an episode on how the edhrec recs section is to be used? I'm a noob and not quite understand how to use it.
I'm fairly certain they've done a podcast episode about this. If you search for it here or on the podcast feed, you can probably find it.
@@Lasor4 I'll check the podcast. Thanks!
@@Lasor4 the podcast ep32 from 2018 isn't available. Maybe you can do a 2020 update. *edited as original comment was done from my phone.
@@BlueFalc0n It's still available on the RSS feed, the video on YT is not up anymore but the audio only version still is.
@@EDHRECast cool. Thanks!
I love Heartless Hidetsugu and Furnace if Rath. Bolt myself in response though
I had the "Commander Dies" thing happen to me awhile back in Brawl on Arena, honestly thought it was a bug. Had Forebear's Blade on my commander, but it doesn't pass it on if it dies. Was a fun deck, but I haven't played it since because I wasn't sure if it was bugged or not >.< I wish Arena had a rules section for the formats available (at least on Wednesdays for Brawl)
Fantastic podcast as always guys, love the work you do. Im curious how Companions will be incorporated on to the EDHrec website. How does the website recognise a companion in a given decklist? Or will it accept a 101 cards list?
Cheers good sirs
I think they're still ironing the functionality of that out.
I want to see a five color deck built so you can run as many companions as possible. Just for the lols.
I’ve thought about jegantha for my sliver overlord. Zirda goes into so many decks. I do think this should have been a unset test or future sight. Considering all the issues they’ve caused?
I feel like people will experiment with them and then they will die off after people get tired of the restriction. I think a few will last as actual commanders so I'm happy for that. Zirda especially gives Boros a much needed new avenue to explore.
Umori in an all artifact Golos deck. Gives you access to literally every artifact and artifact creatures.
I think Gyruda will be sweet! I'm going to slot it into the 99 of Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. I'm not going to change around other cards to increase the odds of me hitting something because I feel like since I can also steal from my opponent's yards that I'm bound to get something.
Have you guys considered Samut untappy deck as a Zirda companion inclusion? I wanna try and build it using Zirda, but i feel like when i get in to it, it'll fail lol. It does say perm card on Zirda, so I think it could be more possible than you lead on.
Zirda works really well as a companion for an equipment based kelsien voltron deck. I can provide the .dec if you would like.
How does Zirda work with something like a Legion's Landing? Since it has an activated ability on the other side, which is technically a different card, I believe it is illegal. Anyone have a definitive answer?
Can't help but feel a lot was overlooked here, probably would've liked to have seen the companions discussed in no particular order if you didn't really have time to consider power levels.
Zirda in EDH is absolutely insane, to the point of potentially being unfun in certain pods. It's a guaranteed piece of various 2 card infinites, or at worst a 3 mana training grounds. Honestly I see this not being played in lots of decks by virtue of being so much stronger than anything else they're doing.
Gyruda is quite strong, having Gyruda in your "companion zone" means you can play a ramp into fat creatures deck where you can blow people out with eldrazis and the like by turn 4 or faster. Yes the deck restriction is painful, but Gyruda in black means it gives you value, is a win condition, and is in every single game you play it in, and you revive it and it'll happen all over again. Cast this once on turn 4, pull an eldrazi, and stare at your reanimation spells if you struggle to see how this card can be nuts.
Meanwhile Jegantha is.... cute. It's a 5 mana creature with only a tap ability, so the amount of times you play this and it dies can be surreal. So the only times it doesnt die is when you don't have obvious synergy (aka Jodah). Honestly I feel like I'd rather play a gilded lotus that enters tapped. And that's just sad.
18:18 it does not count since it says "mana symbol" while you can pay for both with red the actual symbol is different
Bingo. Also worth noting is Jegantha doesn't care about duplicate symbols in rules text, such as for activated abilities or alternate costs. For example, you can play the Mutate legends and Cubwarden, but can't play Everquill Phoenix or Dirge Bat.
The companion ability is basically useless, but we can always just ignore the companion text, just use them in the 99 as a regular card. That Hippo is stupid as a companion, but is pretty decent in the 99. So I think the cards are not necessarily bad and can see some decent use in the 99.
I love the Borox Fox. It's so cool looking and I have an Aurelia equipment deck... Most mana I generate is to precisely use the equip costs, so this card will be a must
Lil tip: Zirda works on ALL activated abilities. Just working on enchantments and artifacts in addition to creatures is more than enough to be useful, but also it also works on activated abilities from cards in your hand, graveyard, exile, or in the command zone (not that there are any effects you can activate from the command zone in boros, but still). I'm planning to use it in the 99 of a Ramos Wild Research/Cycling deck (I blame Library of Leng), as it's a second copy of Fluctuator, but it also happens to work with cards that have Reinforce, Transmute, and Forecast that I want to be playing in that deck. I can see a Kenrith deck bending to accommodate it.
Canadian Highlander made the opposite decision, and I feel like eventually the commander rules committee will follow suit.
Im confused on the hybrid rule in commander now because yall kept showing mono red with the rakdos one
That and yall were talking like people were actually serious about being mad about the otter getting mad it was a joke
Sisay & Jegantha make for a really fun and fast CEDH deck. Definitely my favourite companion of the bunch.
i feel companions is a very missed opportunity and can be fixed in 2 easy steps!!!!
1. change hybrid mana to be more inclusive. an example would be the beloved otter. with the change to allow hybrid mana to be OR for commander identity color( if it is hybrind R/G it could be played in any deck with red or greed in it, not needing both mana in color identity) the otter can be in 24/32 color combinations( including colorless as a color combo). this might not fully unban the otter but it would open up design space by making the companions to be less powerful but playable in more decks.
2. the requirement does not need to be this restrictive. an example of this could be your deck cant controll any 2,3 drops. this greatly stops ramp and would be easy to see if someone was cheating (easier than seeing if someone plays 2 sol rings in their deck). with the addition of the first rule you you could make the restriction a lot less restrictive because you would be giving companions to almost all decks, allowing you to make them more impactful.
in conclusion, free the otter and open up design space and make more brewing fun and decks.
All I wanted to do was play the otter as the commander for my izzet deck. I'm trying to build one deck for every Red/X decks in the guilds, and three color combination, but I didn't wanna build niv mizzet again. The otter was gonna be my savior, but now I must become the devil once more.
is it possible to play companions as commanders or just normally? cause just ignore them as companion should be also good^^
Gegantha as the companion to sisay you can go play gengantha then next turn cast sisay and put derevi in play with sisays ability untaping gegantha. attack with genantha. untap gegantha from derevi and at end of combat use sisay again to get najeela and you have assembled infinite combat steps!! Its easy to do this at EOT to catch ppl by suprise and make the attacks smother with no summoning sickness. needing no cards in your hand to start the combo.
I have Gyruda, Doom of Depths as my companion outside of the game. One of my opponents has Drannith Magistrate in play. Can I cast Mastermind's Acquisition to get Gyruda, Doom of Depths into my hand so that I can cast it? Why should the answer to this question depend on the format?
i would say that luitri should only have been banned as a companion and okd for in the 99 or the command zone. however, i do think it would be odd to have no cards only banned as commander but having 1 card banned as companion. i think the other solution would have just to say that these are cards that need to be in your sideboard, therefore cannot be used whatsoever as companions. but i dont think wizards would appreciate their brand new mechanic being essentially banned. i hope now that it's been a few years they might do that.
Jegantha on Arena does not count hybrid simic and blue as the same mana symbol
Kaheera=horde of notions companion
Gyruda is great for aminatou's 99. She stacks the top of the deck AND blinks him.
I’m ok with the companions since only a few seem decent. It’s a flavour fail if anyone doesn’t pair a companion with a humanoid Commander IMHO lol. I’m brewing an Ayli + Lurrus aristocrat deck, I like that the X spells that cost X plus 2 mana are allowed (I think?) like Finale of Glory etc
They are, but Lurrus only restricts the CMC of permanent cards in your deck. Instants and Sorceries of 3 CMC+ can be run without violating the companion restriction.
Anyone notice how Joey interrupted Matt and then Matt didn't say anything for like 3 or 4 cards
I don't think I'll be running any of these in as a companion. There are several i want to put in the 99 though. Gyruda looks like he would fit into my reanimator deck.
Gyruda is awesome with Aminatou.
Oh and gyruda is pretty much a commander unto itself. It is pretty much Clone.dec
Yes, rationally, we should ban Luitri. But COME ON, it's the only Legendary Otter 😭😭😭 One cute sparky boi right there
Fair enough
Technically Morophon is an otter
@@EpicGamerz01 Oh. I see how it is🤣🤣🤣🤣
Duel Masters is the last TCG I expected to hear on this podcast! (plz come back in english)
When you come to hear people talk about companions but it’s just people shitting on them.
I like keyword counters. I strongly dislike mutate and I hate companion.
Edit: have you seen some of the card that Ayli has access to that's two mana. Bitterblossom, dreadhorde invasion, birth of meletis, dawn of hope legions landing, Ajani's Pridemate, Ajani's welcome, phyrexian reclamation authority of the consuls, Daxos blessed by the sun, Syndic of tithes , skull clamp, blind obedience. The list goes on Ayli could make it work.
I don't get how an effect can have a zone but still be outside the game technically. Aren't even exiled cards still in the game technically?
omg you guys dont even know. I plan on playing gyruda as my commander and chain clone into clone to mill my opponents decks and put a lot of power on the board. sakashima the imposter and spark double are going to be great cards. You can also cheat out helm of the host. When you finally wiff on a clone you just play out the best option for free. You can also pack single target even cost flicker cards to repeat its effect as well. Pack in some graveyard hate and kill deck combos. So my win cons will be tempo and mill. I seriously think you guys are underestimating gyruda. Just don't use it as one of the 99 or as a companion although it my offer the opportunity to play scarab god in a different way if you run it as a companion there.
Totally agree, gyruda is a nice commander that is decently strong.
Man, if I didn't know any better I'd think that all of these cards are terrible! Companion as a mechanic wasn't designed for EDH so it's understandable that the companion mechanic is rarely viable for existing decks. However, many of the cards work perfectly well in the 99. Many recursion decks are gonna love putting Gyruda in.
Zirda with Kenrith?
But but but OTTER!!!!
I'm actually looking forward to Gyruda for in my even Muldrotha deck, it's not the most competitive but it's really fun and Zirda looks like a fun build around to
I dont think it's much about power but about a fun payoff to a weird deck building challenge which looks cool to me
Some playtesting could really be done on the hybrid rules interacting with companions :D
Tbh, if you want to limit your deck severely all for an extra card, I'll gladly play against you.
You're going to lose anyways.
I think they should remove companion mechanic from commander, so you can still run them in the deck or as the if you want and whether you want to still build around the deck restriction is up to you.
I have to disagree on the "there are only 10 ways, to restrict a companion"
They could easily have companion expand to start of game effects, like "start with half your life total" or "at the beginning of the game, exile the top 20 cards of your library"
Those aren't deck restrictions though.
The way Commander handled companions infuriates me. Canadian Highlander made a better decision, aka the companion ability doesn't work, there is no sideboard. If I can't have a wishboard then why can you have this?
obosh goes in a kaervek deck. auto-include imo.
If I wanted to play Pokémon I'd go hang out at a Jamaican prison.
Steven Defeo it was a joke. Admittedly not a very good one, but still just a joke.
unban lutri and just make the companion mechanic not work since we have no sideboards.
companions really just aren't meant for commander and that's okay.
Pity then that cards that aren't meant for the format are getting added to the format, meaning, that one way or another they will have to be dealt with.
I feel a rule change to allow the new zone the "companion zone" where your companion can be recast with companion tax just like commander tax would be good. You are already putting so many restrictions on how you build your deck that once your companion is dealt with it would feel like a 99 for 1. I don't feel being able to recast your companion would really break anything.
I miss your pretty faces!
Mtg historian is the worst mtg channel with worst info and worst thumbnails
Not sure how this is relevant, but I agree nevertheless.
@@florianw116 lol he blocked me on live chat because I never donate so I got mad
instead of giving use some shitty companion zone just give us a side board the fact that stuff in EDH has to be special and not work the same as every other format is what really annoying
I kinda feel like that's the problem right there, in Yugioh, cards "removed from the game" eventually went from being just gone (like it used to be for MTG as well) to being part of the game, just a different area (As it is now, Exile.) So cards being "outside the game" for MTG is sometimes called the sideboard, sometimes not, depending on the format. I think the game needs some unifying rule changes to bring these in line better, which I guess is what they meant with the implementation. (Disclaimer, I play Brawl on MTG Arena primarily so not an EDH player, just like the different perspective.)
I think it's just bad to have a companion in addition to a commander. That's not in accord with the spirit of the format. Just put the damn thing in your command zone (and unban Lutri).
Why can WotC say "It just works" and the rules committee has no say in the matter?
I hate all companions. So far only played against a Golos deck (all artifacts with Umori, the Collector) and I hated it. More than enough for me to know I hate the cards.
Lots of narrow thinking and condescension going on in this episode. For starters, there are plenty of decks (even GOOD decks) that don't run Sol Ring - ever see a Commander's Quarters decktech? (I know you have. So stop badmouthing decks that don't run Sol Ring, because almost all of Mitch's are in this category.)
And besides, sometimes the thrill of making a deck is trying to figure out a way to make a wacky mechanic work. You don't just jam a companion into an already-functioning deck and then throw it away because your deck is no longer optimized - all you've proven is that the companion isn't good FOR THAT DECK. And really Dana, "mathematically worth it"? I'm sorry, are we now all playing CEDH here? Let the CEDHers worry about whether something is "mathematically worth it." I'm here to have fun my way, and my way might involve lots of things that aren't "mathematically worth it" just because I find it fun. You should know better.
Companion cards should all be banned from Commander. They simply complicate the format for no real gain. The juice isn't worth the squeeze and when a card has to be banned before its even played and another doesn't even work as a result of other rules for the format... ban them all.
also, while we're at it, ban it in modern, legacy and vintage for good measure.
1st
Ban Lutri ? You otter be ashamed of yourself.
Companion literally says OUTSIDE THE GAME, what is internal consistency? The RC is just shilling wotc’s new stupid mechanic for ??? reason and we are paying the price. They are absolutely terrible for eternal formats but they don’t give a shit about those either, just see breach...