The C20 Precon Upgrade Feature | EDHRECast 109

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  • Опубліковано 25 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 82

  • @nicholaslapoint243
    @nicholaslapoint243 4 роки тому +23

    you guys quickly became my favorite edh content - I love your competing opinions presented positively and the breadth of topics covered. most importantly though is the data inspired conversation, it seems to really ground the topics in more reality!

    • @nicholaslapoint243
      @nicholaslapoint243 4 роки тому

      ​@Jehovah we aren't going to have a fruitful conversation, I'm not interested in engaging someone who insults strangers over a card game

  • @MEIZimm
    @MEIZimm 4 роки тому +14

    You can thank the Command Zone for Crackling Doom being pulled from so many Ruthless Regiment decks. They suggested taking it out in the upgrade video.
    I'm a little saddened that you didn't see all the Aristocrat shenanigans going on with the Mardu deck as well as tribal and aggro, since that's how I'm probably going to build it and a lot of the added cards also reflect this (Judith, Syr Konrad.) And despite the questionable tip to remove Crackling Doom, I still like the CZ's suggestion to run Trynn and Silvar as the commanders instead.
    Anyway, all-around good episode. Keep up the good work guys.

    • @Silver_light77
      @Silver_light77 4 роки тому

      Yeah, in the way they said the u/b wolf whale just gets to run green via partner with, the mardu deck gets a rakdos commander that says you get to run white and it is crazy.

  • @TheJimmythebass
    @TheJimmythebass 4 роки тому +6

    One thing that just occurred to me with Kalamax is that since it only copies instants, you can target it with Chandra's Ignition then use the infinite copy spells trick you mentioned to get it large enough to kill everyone.

  • @stephenklien
    @stephenklien 4 роки тому +4

    I love you guys, your show and your data-based recommendations... but occasionally you might have a little more sensitivity to players with budget concerns when providing advice. Matt's rejection of Ever After for Rise of the Dark Realms is great in a vacuum, but that upgrade moves the card choice from a 25 cent card to a $18-20 card. For $7.25 you can pair Ever After (which goes back to the bottom of your deck after it resolves) with Sidisi, Undead Vizier. Sure, you can't get your entire yard all at once, but you can cast Sidisi, have her extort herself, tutor up Ever After, and then get her back along with another dude from the yard every turn if you like, lather, rinse, repeat. It's not all that efficient, but late game when you have plenty of mana it's like having the card available to cast whenever you want.
    That leaves you about $12.50 for other cards -- like Hell's Caretaker, $1.30, which can tap and sac a creature you don't need at the moment to recur a better dude from the yard on each upkeep (and then maybe the next turn getting the card you sacked right back on the battlefield in exchange for a token or lower-powered creech).
    If price is no object then you should play the best cards you care to buy, but if price is a concern then it might not be the best advice to tell those budget players looking for your advice to dump a powerful card for a much more expensive card without at least mentioning "if you can swing the $20 bucks."

  • @matthewzaksheske4211
    @matthewzaksheske4211 4 роки тому +2

    Hey guys. Really great format! I don't know how frequently you can do these kind of videos but this video is sincerely enjoyable and thought provoking. Seems very much like the command zone, but different enough to not seem copy catish. Keep it up!

  • @weslawrence888
    @weslawrence888 4 роки тому +11

    Crackling Doom is being taken out at such a high right because The Command Zone listed it as one of the ones to take out in their precon upgrade video.

    • @michael8763
      @michael8763 4 роки тому +2

      There are so many better options though....Crackling Doom is easily cut....

    • @danaroach29
      @danaroach29 4 роки тому

      @@michael8763 It's also not a splashy card, it's just kind of a generic "value" generator so if you're trying to build a specific machine it's an easy non-essential part to cut.

    • @seasnek7024
      @seasnek7024 4 роки тому

      It’s not that great of a spell tho.

    • @eric0967
      @eric0967 4 роки тому +2

      three mana removal is terrible in black and white. they're are lots of better options.

    • @danaroach29
      @danaroach29 4 роки тому +8

      @@eric0967 That's not remotely true, but ok.

  • @TheJimmythebass
    @TheJimmythebass 4 роки тому +4

    It's worth noting that Mutating onto creatures with Heroic abilities will trigger them, so Gnarlback Rhino and Triton Fortune Hunter would make for solid draw engines for the Otrimi deck.

    • @seasnek7024
      @seasnek7024 4 роки тому

      Yeah I noted that affect with season of growth. You just draw a card every time you mutate with it

  • @Spaecefaeries
    @Spaecefaeries 4 роки тому +2

    A card I’m not seeing added to many Otrimi decks is Elusive Tormentor. It flips into Insidious Mist which has indestructible, hexproof and and it can’t be blocked. Pretty much everything you want in a host creature, it makes dealing with your mutants near impossible.
    On Otrimi vs Brokkos: I think Otrimi gets the slight edge assuming your deck is relying more on its mutates. Mutates dying is a big blow out on card advantage so getting them back is important (still put brokkos in the 99 because graveyard recursion is the only good strategy)

    • @metalvisionsongcontest7055
      @metalvisionsongcontest7055 4 роки тому +1

      Ethan Barker My brother had Elusive Tormentor in his Mimeoplasm deck and kept wrecking me with it... until I casually mentioned this during a conversation with a judge and he told me that making Mimeoplasm a copy of Elusive Tormentor doesn't work... or, well, it does, but Mimeoplasm can't flip into Insidious Mists then. 😉 I don't know whether it works with mutate, though - it's one of the most complicated mechanics we've had in recent years.

    • @Spaecefaeries
      @Spaecefaeries 4 роки тому

      Metalvision Song Contest You can’t Mimeoplasm it because while it’s in the graveyard it’s Elusive Tormentor not the mist, and you can’t transform Mimeoplasm since it’s only a copy of one side of the card.
      Mutate is different, if a creature in a mutate stack transforms then it stays in the same place in the pile but it acts as the transformed card. This is very weird since you can mutate onto a werewolf and let it transform back into a human, allowing a human into a mutate stack. (Note that any cards that exile and return transformed won’t work this way, as blinking splits up a mutate stack)
      You can circumvent the whole headache in this case though: just transform tormentor into mist right away and mutate onto the mist. There’s nothing on the tormentor side we want, since we likely will have something better than a 4/4 on top and it’s the hexproof/indestructible/unblockable that really matters.
      It sucks that mimeo can’t use insidious mist though, that would be so sweet

    • @metalvisionsongcontest7055
      @metalvisionsongcontest7055 4 роки тому

      Ethan Barker Since I've played against such an (incorrect) Insidious-Mist Mimeoplasm multiple times, trust me... it's everything but sweet! 😉 One of the reasons why I'm kind of fed up with Mimeoplasm going voltron (still possible with other hexproof + evasion creatures, like Invisible Stalker). By now, I think Muldrotha is the Sultai graveyard goodstuff commander Mimeoplasm wanted to be 😊.

    • @Spaecefaeries
      @Spaecefaeries 4 роки тому

      Metalvision Song Contest Joey might fight you over mimeoplasm not being the best. I’m a Sidisi guy myself though

  • @caligo7918
    @caligo7918 4 роки тому +11

    Most overpowered card in the next set will read: bury target non-artifact player

  • @Mtgplayer182
    @Mtgplayer182 4 роки тому +1

    I feel like on otrimi one of the things you want to do is be able to save/remake your mutated creatures. So wydwen and masked admirers kind of fit, but cards like cavern harpie, crystal shard, and quickling, probably work better. Great video! I’m glad you guys gave the deck the time of day.

  • @MightySquishy69
    @MightySquishy69 4 роки тому

    45:50 a good replacement for Wydwen I have found is Brood of Cockaroaches (1B 1/1 When Brood dies you may pay 1 life to return it to your hand from the grave) it doesnt have flying but it avoids having that awkward blue and black open.

  • @jimmyb2655
    @jimmyb2655 4 роки тому

    I split enhanced evolution into 2 decks. A mutation deck, and an insane X Spell deck. I love that I was able to craft 2 awesome decks out of 1 precon. I removed about 10 cards that I didn't use at all. The rest made their way into one of the other decks. a little note: masked admirers and wydwen gale are great in a mutation heavy deck. you can mutate on top of them, save 2 mana, then when they inevitably are about to be blown up you return the cards to your hard to mutate again next turn.

  • @Neuverfleischer
    @Neuverfleischer 4 роки тому +4

    Regarding Wydwen: She's meant to recycle and/or safe mutate cards, so it can safe you from being 4-1ed

  • @devonbush6027
    @devonbush6027 4 роки тому

    I'm currently building an Alela Deck and the Challenge the Stats card of Gossamer Chains is a beautiful include. Thank you

  • @SadwichPunch2100
    @SadwichPunch2100 4 роки тому +1

    The way you upgrade Otrimi is replace Otrimi with Sugeon Commander (if your group allows UN cards) or Child of Alara and run a 5-Color Mutate deck with all the Apexes, and best mutate cards, along with Troll Ascetic and Slippery Boggle etc. Then take Zaxara and make a Sultai X-Matters Deck with Hydras, Villainous Wealth, Exsanguinate, etc.

  • @serafimb2319
    @serafimb2319 4 роки тому

    I absolutely agree about crackling doom! I love that spell. I think it was command zone who advised to take it out and i absolutely couldn't understand why. Also, CZ might be the reason why so many people took it out...

  • @returnoftheduelist9790
    @returnoftheduelist9790 3 роки тому

    I run gavi and its an easy 7/10 at this point. Added mystic remora, added rhystic study i pulled, added almahretts archive, both decress of silence and annihilation (yes i will blow up all lands but I usually will win if i do with free cycling off new perspectives to draw double each time with archive or tefaris insight). Zenith flare is great and you gain the damage you deal too, i like to add dragonmaster outcast for a free 5/5 each turn and i did cut sun titan, migratory route, spirit cairn, and most of the monster lineup i changed out. I kept all cycling lands and run 10 basic and then cut myriad and some other basics for the flip lands and added the 3 shocks. Astral drift and slide are op, and i think the cards that deal 1 for each draw are just too slow for me. Wall of omens is a good drift target and so is mulldrifter. So much to talk about with this deck and its heavily underlooked other than the included fierce guardianship lol.

  • @TheB4dger
    @TheB4dger 4 роки тому

    I found putting a bag of holding in my Govi deck to be pretty worth while. Since the cycle discards, I get a second chance to boost my draw power later in the game while also giving me an opportunity to cast the card for its normal effect.

  • @GamePodify
    @GamePodify 4 роки тому

    Love every new upload you have. Just wish I can hurry up with fininishing reading my daily research papers so I can listen/watch this

  • @regularbowl99
    @regularbowl99 4 роки тому +1

    Another card for Kalamax that I find really cool that you could use is Burning Anger.
    Once you get him to be infinitely big you just tap and then take someone out.

    • @regaleagle6533
      @regaleagle6533 4 роки тому

      5 mana is a ton for that effect when fling or soul's fire can murder two people copying themselves or chandra's ignition for 5 gets the table. Worth considering though.

  • @maxwellnichols3873
    @maxwellnichols3873 4 роки тому +1

    Kalamax only counts instant spells, not sorceries. You can cast a sorcery and copy it with an instant and still get a Kalamax trigger on that instant to go infinite.

    • @kevinschons2387
      @kevinschons2387 4 роки тому

      Problem is
      Mana
      It is better to answer something an opponent does instead of paying extra mana to start

  • @regaleagle6533
    @regaleagle6533 4 роки тому

    I feel like an important point was missed Kalamax wise. Narset's reversal is utterly broken in this deck but works COMPLETELY different from other copy effects that go infinite. If your opponent casts a sorcery like rampant growth and you cast narset's reversal Kalamax gets two +1/+1 and YOU get the land, they do NOT get their land and both reversal and rampant growth go back to their owners hand. If they cast an instant like brainstorm same thing but you get three +1/+1 counters and you get the brainstorm. This is a quite different interaction but similar to a weaker spelljack or commandeer but also with basically a 0 cost buyback. Obviously they will want to counterspell that asap but if they can't oh man.
    Kalamax doesn't work amazing with rituals because if you copy the ritual you then don't copy the big thing you use that mana for. This is counter intuitive. You also don't really want to storm off but rather cast 1 per opponents turn as a slow burn. A few red sorcery rituals as an exception though. Copying two good spells just outdoes two for 1 yourself with an x spell or something vs just doubling the x spell.

    • @regaleagle6533
      @regaleagle6533 4 роки тому

      For bomb cards which people are passing over in their decks hmm. Noxious revival is fantastic with all the draw power at 2 life to recast crucial instants. Inspiring call even without any creatures other than Kalamax with +1/+1 counters when copied gives your commander indestructible and let's you draw 2 cards for 3 mana. Fists of flame is a great combat trick 2 mana alone you draw two cards get +1/+1 then +5/+0 and trample chase it with like a brainstorm and its another 6 attack power. Balduvian rage similarly doubles for huge power boost and then you get to draw two cards and recently dropped from several dollars to a few cents thanks to a reprint. Also strangely the new spark Ral isn't a top choice although mean turns infinite copies into you win the game.
      A few outside the box options. With how fast this commander can dig through low cost instants Visions of Beyond to draw 6 for 1 blue is a possibility. If control decks tend to mess with you on your turn Seedtime gets you 1-2+ extra turns for 2 mana.

  • @igniteaxiom
    @igniteaxiom 4 роки тому +2

    i made a mardu deck just to play crackling doom and a few other spells. its an absolute auto-include in any deck that can run it.

  • @keaganrosario8230
    @keaganrosario8230 4 роки тому

    Niiiice, looking forward to making some upgrades!

  • @Will_Morand
    @Will_Morand 4 роки тому +1

    People have been removing Crackling Doom mostly because that was one of the cards that The Command Zone mentioned to take out on their deck upgrade guide.

    • @jacobjensen7704
      @jacobjensen7704 4 роки тому

      I have no clue why. Crackling Doom is one of the best removal spells in Mardu.

    • @eric0967
      @eric0967 4 роки тому

      3 mana removal is terrible in black and white there are lots of better options.

    • @jacobjensen7704
      @jacobjensen7704 4 роки тому +2

      @@eric0967 if it were single target removal I would agree with you. Crackling Doom is an edict for every opponent though. That makes 3-mana an awesome rate.

  • @JudgeCanada
    @JudgeCanada 4 роки тому

    I would add Slate of Ancestry to the Human tribal deck. Repeatable mass card draw for a token deck is huge!

  • @ethanwiggen3567
    @ethanwiggen3567 4 роки тому

    With Mardu having a plethora of removal options,I would heavily consider fire covenant as an option.

  • @Iwoqvossik
    @Iwoqvossik 4 роки тому

    I agree that Brokkos or Snapdax would be better for decks that focus on infect.
    If your goal is to build a really cool mutate bogles deck, then Otrimi is best of the 6 legends.
    The other 5 are going to be more about what cool interactions can you get by putting them over/under other creatures.

  • @happybrain2674
    @happybrain2674 4 роки тому +1

    Btw can you guys fix that a card is highly synergestic with himself?

  • @theoriginalwolfey5173
    @theoriginalwolfey5173 4 роки тому

    Challenge the stats: doesn't jirina pump humans before mentor of the meek can trigger? So doesn't that mean mentor is just a human while your commander is out? I am trying to clarify because I want this deck and don't want to try to use something if it doesn't work.

  • @TarnaxTheBarbarian
    @TarnaxTheBarbarian 4 роки тому +1

    Joey doesn't know Wonderwall... I'm so envious...

  • @yes.thatjanedoe
    @yes.thatjanedoe 4 роки тому

    Utrimi Undying sacrifice?
    Mutate a bunch of undying creatures to get the effect then sac them to build up your board

  • @thetogtube2
    @thetogtube2 4 роки тому

    DeadBridge Chant is great in Polokronos

  • @johnphipps4960
    @johnphipps4960 4 роки тому

    also you don['t have to just copy an opponents thing, kalamax only copies your first INSTANT spell. you can cast a ponder to start the infinite copy

  • @DerpyLaron
    @DerpyLaron 4 роки тому

    Zenith Flare is being cute because of the command zone thinking (imho wrongfully) it sucks and wanting to focus the deck on cycling and etbs

  • @Customerbuilder
    @Customerbuilder 4 роки тому +3

    Finally, Wizards found a way to move Standard packs, without making up a crappy format, like Brawl. I like this direction. Just wish they were less greedy with everything else.

  • @lanesteele240
    @lanesteele240 4 роки тому

    Stormseeker is a great kalamax card.

  • @kamakazi339
    @kamakazi339 4 роки тому

    I love gossamer chains

  • @_somerandomguyontheinternet_
    @_somerandomguyontheinternet_ 4 роки тому

    Why are people removing Crackling Doom? Because the Command Zone did it.

  • @loganhill8693
    @loganhill8693 4 роки тому

    Glint-horn bucket!

  • @TheKidsDaaaaad
    @TheKidsDaaaaad 4 роки тому

    Kalamax Dragonstorm Deck!

  • @nicholasbower17
    @nicholasbower17 4 роки тому

    31:00
    "Human Love"
    Are you aware that chapter 1 of Severed Bond, Jirina and Lukka (Coppercoat Outcast) have sex?
    Because that makes this phrasing way better.

    • @stephenklien
      @stephenklien 4 роки тому

      It's better than "non-human love," at any rate.

  • @thetogtube2
    @thetogtube2 4 роки тому

    Kiora's Follower can work well in Kalamax.

    • @xamillustration
      @xamillustration 4 роки тому

      I was thinking that too, but it's untapping (not tapping) pernaments. Or i missed something...

  • @Customerbuilder
    @Customerbuilder 4 роки тому

    Can't copy Turnabout using different modes.

    • @regaleagle6533
      @regaleagle6533 4 роки тому +1

      This is absolutely wrong. Unlike modal spells like Choose 1 of these, turnabout decides what to do on resolution so you can copy it and choose something different. This is what makes it a powerful option as you can boost your mana and also tap down an opponents defense with the same spell.

  • @NecroGrammaton
    @NecroGrammaton 4 роки тому +2

    please optimize your site for mobile phone users! thank you

    • @t4rv0r60
      @t4rv0r60 4 роки тому

      100% agree

    • @florianw116
      @florianw116 4 роки тому +1

      That's typically easier said than done.

    • @NecroGrammaton
      @NecroGrammaton 4 роки тому

      @@florianw116 like everything yes ;)

    • @pepi560
      @pepi560 4 роки тому

      What? Its fine?

    • @seasnek7024
      @seasnek7024 4 роки тому

      pepi560 it sometimes glitches and feels a bit clunky at times

  • @EloquentTroll
    @EloquentTroll 4 роки тому

    Oona's Grace should just be in more decks period.

  • @therealmerf
    @therealmerf 4 роки тому

    Turnabout untap AND TAp..

  • @solidmasterdante
    @solidmasterdante 4 роки тому

    I'm surprised there's so much love for crackling doom in here. It's a good rate, but I never like removal that you don't have some kind of control over. You're in Mardu for pete's sake! You have some of the absolute best targeted removal in the game! Run better cards, crackling doom is mediocre.

    • @regaleagle6533
      @regaleagle6533 4 роки тому

      It is often more powerful because it does not target which takes away removal protection in some cases and it sacrifices which takes away different removal protection and hits all opponents. Also pretty heavily dependent on your meta if people are murdering you with 50/50 obviously it would be more useful than if folks are winning with nonstop infinite combos.

  • @pepi560
    @pepi560 4 роки тому

    Deadbridge chant is plain old card advantage what exactly "doesnt work"??? If youre using it as a reanimation spell, ofc it wont work... Also soul flayer cut when you open the deck doesnt make sense to me either because you act like your entire deck is creatures with different keywords. Like you wont have a bunch of useless lands/spells/duplicate keywords in your grave which you dont need.
    Otherwise the analisys on the other decks i pretty much agree on

    • @solidmasterdante
      @solidmasterdante 4 роки тому

      Deadbridge is a 6 mana do nothing that can end up hurting you by randomly removing cards from your graveyard that you'd rather stayed there. I like milling ten at once, but 6cmc is high for no immediate value, and it being random always comes back to bite me in the ass.

  • @SumNeuron
    @SumNeuron 4 роки тому

    In response to the "season to taste" comment I made a keyword soup brewer assistance tool sumneuron.gitlab.io/ktrl/

  • @borosman720
    @borosman720 4 роки тому

    first YAY