Test Driving A Rolex Submariner 16613 & A Seiko Marine Master 300m SBDX017 Automatic Dive Watch
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- In this episode I am joined by the right honourable GCR (Giancarlo) to talk about two amazing luxury automatic dive watches we were loaned from some very good friends. I test drive the pre-ceramic iconic Rolex Submariner two tone (ref. 166130) and GCR takes the legendary Seiko Marine Master 300m (ref. SBDX017) for a spin. We discuss what we like, dislike, and if we would consider buying these for our own watch collections.
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How lucky is your friend to be given a Rolex Submariner two tone from his wife. Interesting seeing your current version next to an older version.
Indeed, very good point Bob,
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
Bob FromBrisbane The newer version has solid gold links thus it's quite substantially more expensive than its pre ceramic counterpart. Would still make for an interesting video though.
i'm pretty sure based on his jokes, his "friend" is in some sort of italian mob family... "i appreciate the use of my legs & i thought i was gonna be in a wheel chair"
They don't call the Marine Master the Japanese Rolex for nothing. Absolute quality watch! Star of the show today.
Haha, I totally get it now!
Thank you Anthony,
Best regards,
TGV
That monocoque case, and the watch assembled all from the front, really something special. The case measures 44mm but the bezel only 42mm so people often report it wears smaller than other 44mm Seiko's. Bit of a grail for me, and will 100% own one at some point.
"I like watches" understatement of the century
LOL Thank you ;-)
Best regards,
TGV
Ya think...? Lol!
"Testing, testing, errr. I like watches." Choked on my All-Bran. :)
LOL :D
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
11th Ocean hahaha i died
I could hear them talking about watches all day long👌
Thank you sir, very kind of you to say.
Best regards,
TGV
The MM300 is one of those watches that makes you go "How was my Explorer three times more expensive?!"... The brushed hands with polished edges, hand applied lume, and the hand assembled (allegedly) 8L35... AMAZING watch. I don't love the bracelet so I put mine on a black Isofrane for that modern-retro look. If you have a chance to try it on rubber I think it makes the watch truly shine, and nearly impossible to beat in its price category. Its a little top heavy on NATO but I still do it ;). Great Video!
Fantastic episode gentlemen! As always, it's an absolute pleasure having Giancarlo on the show! Beautiful two tone Sub and what a watch that seiko is, real stunner!
Best,
Matt H.
Loved learning more about these stunning Divers! Thank you both for sharing your love of timepieces. The energy and enthusiasm you both exude makes me want to go get a diver...NOW! So. Many. Choices.
There is a saying: you buy a Sub to impress other people. You buy a MarineMaster to impress yourself.
Buying watches is all about impressing ourselves. Because most of the time the watch is half hidden in your sleeve. You got those watches because of love or earning something. But yeah, some watches exist to scream "NOTICE ME!"
Love that saying!!
Michael Powell Well said!
Never had a Sub and most probably will never have one. But I do consider myself fortunate to own a mm300 and will be for sure the watch I will never flip
and for much less cash. in fact you can buy 4 mm's for a sub. how crazy is that.
I have owned a 16613 2 tone Sub for almost 20 years. I was a grail for me back then and I still cherish is as much now. I know it's kind of and overused phrase, but it looks great with jeans or a suit. It's the watch you take on vacation; perfect for the pool or formal dinner. And I never tire of looking at that blue dial. Great job, Gents. Love the chemistry and the way you guys play off each other. Keep up the great work.
The MM300 is the nuts, honestly.
Loving your new collaborations with Jon! The chemistry that you lads have is hard to beat! Keep at it TGV!
Cheers,
Joshua
you two are the perfect duo to talk about watches! do this more often please. And the mm300 seems like a really interesting watch haha
And the winner is...
(drum roll)
Seiko SKX!!! ;D
LOL, indeed!!! ;-)
Thank you Luca
Best regards,
TGV
LOL thats funny!!
You can take all Chuck Norris Jokes and insert SKX on this channel
Luca Simoncini Naaa!
And the winner is...
Seiko Sumo
Giancarlo makes the channel even better! Keep it up guys!
The ceramic version of that sub is absolutely my grail of grails. I tried one on recently and it is in my opinion, the most gorgeous watch I've ever seen.
would love to see a proper video comparing mm300 to the sub. please make that video TGV!!!
that federico talk watches impression was spot on! :D
What a great video and analysis of these beautiful timepieces! For someone who is not savvy on watches, yet enjoys adding to my husband's growing watch collection, very helpful to watch. I'm following! Thank you!
The MM300 adjustable clasp came before the rolexs glidelock. The MM's bezel is lacquer.
this is what many Rolex fanboys don't realise when they accuse the mm300 of being a submariner copy. Granted that the bezel of the sbdx001 is not ceramic, Seiko had the glossy bezel and large round hour markers since 2000-01 way before Rolex had those.
The Seiko works so well on him. I can totally see him falling for it lol. Looks very down to business and it doesn't get much more "tool watch" than that. And I'm always saying that more full-body images should be present on r/Watches and other watch forums. So many people ask "is my watch too big" and post an image of just their wrist. But the entire build of the person is how it should be determined. As a fellow Italian (well not all Italian, but I seem to have gotten all the Italian genes lol!) with a similar build, seeing the Seiko on GCR's wrist made me want it too!
As far as two-tone Subs, love them! Blue and gold just screams navigation/ocean to me. And it was stunning to see it next to the Seiko as well. The Seiko looks like (and IS) a tool for real divers. And then you have a two-tone Sub that looks very oceanic, but isn't really practical at all. It says something that you two even laughed at it when thinking about it being used as a real diving watch - because in all seriousness, it'd absolutely be a bit ridiculous. Had me cracking up about diving into champagne lol. So while I like them, they're almost all aesthetic. They remind me of water and boats, but don't actually belong in the ocean. I could see someone on a yacht wearing one, relaxing on the deck. Then taking it off, putting the Seiko on, and jumping into the water. If you're into boating, sea-life, sailing, etc. then the two-tone Sub is the way to go. But if you're going to want something tough, rugged, and for actual diving, get the Seiko or a normal Sub.
Also, I think you said it perfectly with, "It's tastefully done flashy-ness." That's honestly the best way anyone could describe the two-tone Sub. Completely not in-your-face, but also definitely not subtle either. Just clean, classy, and luxurious. It knows what it is and isn't afraid to let people know about it.
Epic timing - just as seiko Saturday is upon us
;-)
Thank you Kuok,
Best regards,
TGV
You know its gonna be good when the other explorer brother is present.
LOL Best comment so far! :D
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
You can say that they are EXPLORING the world of watches :p
I just bought the Seiko Marine Master watch only because Gian Carlo is wearing it in the video! Gain Carlo is my idol!
Seiko just keeps surprising people for what they do, japanese craftmanship has always been amazing
I have a ceramic no date Sub, Black Bay Heritage Red ETA, a Grand Seiko Spring Drive Diver, and a MM300... I put the MM on a Miltat Angus Jubilee w ratcheting clasp. It holds up well against all of the others, and when you consider the price -- it blows them away!
Wow! TGV! This is an innovative Video!!!! I must confess I never would have thought of doing a watch video in a Police Interrogation Cell!
LOL.
Thank you Steve,
Best regards,
TGV
That's funny! And the echo....
Never really post comments for youtube but just want to say how much I appreciate your videos. Been looking for a hobby and your videos inspired me to get into watches. Your videos are super informative and is pure class! Keep up the good work!
I have the 14060M two liner and I was able to install a Ginault Ocean rover bracelet which has the glidelock function and I can honestly say its the best combo between old and new. I absolutely love it and would highly recommend it for anyone who likes the size proportions of the pre ceramic subs but love the gridlock feature of the new submariners. Also the Ginault bracelet even fits my GMT ref 16710. The bracelet alone is worth purchasing a Ginault watch IMHO.
So much fun! I am really interested in that Seiko...I am not really a Seiko guy, but that thing is exceptional
This Laurel and Hardy watch duo made my day ! Very impressed by the Marine Master. Another winning Seiko.
I really admire your attitude in your videos very comforting and easy to relate to , your points come across very clearly as well top work !
and FYI not many of the bezels line up on the MM300.....and GCR the Pelagos and mm300 would be an amazing dual.
Confirmed. I have the updated SLA021 and the chapter ring and bezel are both not centered properly.
Beautiful 2 tone Rolex, love ❤️ it! The Seiko is also an eye catcher!
When you guys do the full review of the MM300, please look into one issue that I've been trying to find clarity on: some watch makers have urged caution over what they've found to be a weak or just poorly executed stem and crown. This is very surprising, since a robust and reliable crown/stem configuration are really key to a true diver tool watch. Thanks guys! Excellent content, as always!!!!
Hey GUYS!
Omg that seiko is gorgeous . Love your videos Tgv!
So glad to hear, thank you :D
Best regards,
TGV
I always love your videos, TGV! They always give me comfort and happiness. Keep the awesome work!
That inspires me greatly David, thank you so much,
Best regards,
TGV
I sold my Tudor Black Bay with in house movement to buy a MM300. For me, there is no doubt that the Seiko is superior. When you hold it in your hands, you realize at that moment that you hold a piece of very high quality. I did not feel that way with the Tudor. To each his tastes but I find that the design of the case of the MM300 is a work of art. The Tudor case design is more a boring slap of steel.
WOW, I can certainly see why you say that!
Enjoy your MM300 and always great to hear from a long time commentator.
Best regards,
TGV
maitrehg agreed! The monocoque case is undisputed! Loving mine!
I agreed with most of your statement but I felt that the bezel can be quite intimidating sometimes. I saw how thick it was making it looks like a fort. But yeah it was supposed to survive 300m dive so that's why it must be that thick.
You should get the Tudor with the ETA movement..that is going to become the next classic.
no way for me. quite mad in my opinion.
when i saw the MM300 in real live, it blew me away!
Thanks for having John Carlo. I think the two tone Submariner is just a dressier option. I don't find it gaudy. Can't wait for the side by side comparisons.
EDIT: Zack Mattews is right saying that the bezel is painted steel (the bezel is not aluminium as previously mentioned)
-Charles
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
You are right however the french version of seiko says titanium, www.seiko.fr/sbdx017j-prospex-automatique
the 'titanium' you are referring to is the text engraved on the clasp. the clasp is made of titanium while the rest of the watch is steel. hope that clarifies!
"Nice Try T" hahaha almost fell of my chair by laughing. Really nice video! :)
LOL ;-)
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
Actually the two tune Submariner was my favourite option on subs before I got into watches. Now I'm not a fan at all, not even in general of two tone watches.
As for being a logical step, I think it is. In the times we live in watches are no longer a necessity for majority of people, they are a luxury, especially with pieces in that price range. So why not make it in precious metals?
Really enjoying these episode with Giancarlo. Great job guys!
There's actually a lot of watches with precious metal, especially gold now being sold all over the world. Especially to specific market like India where people there LOVE gold (seriously, 10 percent of earth's mined gold are owned by Indian housewives). Indian men are nuts for male gold bracelet and necklace and gold watches. China is also an emerging market with so many new rich people with current economic boom in China and how they crave everything with gold (because it's part of classic Chinese element and considered lucky).
Seriously, Rolex can goes derp and sell solid gold watches there with huge ROLEX word written on the dial and it will sell. Tacky? yes, obviously but a exploiting a fool and their money is part of the business.
Faizal F In a lot of Chinese pawn shops there are lots of blinged out Rolex but it's probably aftermarket jobs or special order
I remember eating at a posh cafe in Bucharest once and the owner came to us and was very helpful and nice. When he sat at the table next to us I remember seeing his two tone blue ceramic updated Rolex submariner. Maaaan it was gorgeous....absolutely stunning to look at. The new Tudor two tone has a bit of that look for a lot less money
You jammy thing! I adore memories like that.
Thank you for sharing that. Going to check out the Tudor now ;-)
Best regards,
TGV
Very cool! It's not a ceramic bezel. But it is shiny!! Great video guys!!
That two tone effect on the Rolex is very tastefully done. It's more a splash of color than bling. And, I'm not even a fan of yellow gold.
Technically, Breitling makes tool watches, but also some of the blingiest "tool" watches this side of a high polished gold plated Invicta "diver".
I think in this day and age when a tool watch is at best a backup to digital tech, be it underwater or in a cockpit, there's nothing wrong with playing with aesthetics to attract a broader audience to a dive or pilot watch.
Most divers do desk diving only. So, get yourself a blue dialed, gold accented stainless case version for your own collection and run it on a light brown leather strap that would play nicely with both the blue and gold.
I like your new Rolex. The Seiko is beautiful, I have a tuna, and it is well made. The marine master has to be amazing.
The SBDX017 is one of the higher end Seikos out there. I own a 014 and 016 and they are amazing. The 8L35 is amazing and definitely one of the more desirable movements. In fact, moving into the MM range, people are biased towards the Spring Drive (SBDB) or the automatic (SBDX) series just because of their prominence in accuracy and it's ability to be nearly on par with higher market pieces such as ROlex. Personally I love the charm and uniqueness of it, and considering how few people have it, it stands out quite a bit. Although I have to say, the market demands 001 more so than 017, and I don't think it's "limited". This is mass produced, it's just "limited" in the sense that it's JDM and therefore not easily attainable by anyone outside of HK/Japan/Thailand and a few other E Asian countries.
I purchased that Seiko Marine Master 300 bracelet for my Seiko 6105 and with little modification it looks great. One of better bracelets in Seiko world. I have that two tone Bluesy and I like it better that my Rolex ceramic sub. So glad to see some high quality pieces in this episode and good conversation. BIG LIKE
LOve the Seiko, even thinking of buying one from Seiyajapan. But I am a traditionalist when it comes to the Sub, the black is understated and elegant.
Cheers
I really like your channel, thank you for your work. Love from Moscow :)
Thank you so much Alexey, very cool to hear from viewers from Moscow!
Best regards,
TGV
Good chemistry between you lads.....appreciate the content, cheers
Thank you Shawn, long time no hear!
I hope you are well my friend,
Best regards,
TGV
Just picked up an early 2000s used no date submariner after watching your videos. Hard choice between that and the omega PO but I am happy with the sub.
Great show TGV! I have been watching your channel since 2014 and it's still the best watch channel. The Submariner is the best watch in your collection, it's timeless. Don't sell it.
Best regards,
Darko
Thank you Darko, I am deeply horned by your words and loyal support. It means the world to me.
I of course remember you and always will.
Best regards,
TGV
P.s. The Sub isn't going anywhere ;-)
it's such a delight to see you both or other of your friends doing videos with you tgv. brilliant and hilarious! such madness but beautiful to see. hope next vid it'll be your wife talkin bout watches and cuisines. just a suggestion anyways. more power and success to you sir😉✌
TGV was almost lost for words starring at the seiko
After much thought I bought the Seiko MM300 partially base on this video. Thanks.
I always had it in my head that I didn't like the two-tone sub, but seeing it on the wrist, it actually looks phenomenal!
Thank you so much Ben, I might have to get the Ceramic version ;-)
Best regards,
TGV
Tastefully done flashy. Good description. Breitling can learn from it. If flashy is your thing (both watches and watch lovers), embrace it with taste!
OMG this is so great you guys freak out over watches just like I freak out also
I happened to owned the exact 2 tones sub you reviewed. Got it way before the ceramic subs are out. As I already owned quite a few tooly dive watches, I wanted to try the 2 tones for a more dressier, abit of flash diver sport watch. Comparing it to the new sub, I like the size and the blue dial. The new 2 tones blue is darker, size wear bigger due to beefer lugs. For that, I am happy to give up the newer movement, ceramic bezel, glide lock features. Great video!
My father has that two tone Rolex!!!! Love that watch!
And so you should, your father sounds like a cool chap ;-)
Thank you Holum,
Best regards,
TGV
The two of you should make more videos because is topnotch.
Great vid as always but some soft furnishings to dampen reverberation and tone down the Daz-white background would make it even better ;)
Great job TGV! Your videos are always amazing quality!
Thank you so much :D
Very much appreciated my friend.
Best regards,
TGV
great conversation. thank you 🙏
Well the density of 904L stainless steel is 7,95 g/cm³ while the density of gold is 19,30 g/cm³ (both at room temperature). Which means gold is indeed much heavier than 904L stainless steel.
A great Seiko Saturday to both of you and keep up the good work!
FANTASTIC and so precise too!
Thank you Mathieu, very much appreciated.
Best regards,
TGV
Before I bought the Deep Sea James Cameron, my daily wearer was a 2003 2 tone sub w/ blue dial. One of my all time favorite timepieces, but I would prefer my next 2 tone sub with glidelock and ceramic bezel.
Congrats on the explorer! I am very partial to the classic pre 1989 explorers myself. Maybe one day...
Thank you Scott, love the 1060 too, I almost bought one myself.
Best regards,
TGV
Awesome vid! 👍 😎 love the Mm300!
I own the 16613 TT Blue and before that 16803TT Blue i currently have three five digit subs including my beloved 5513...I love the two tone five digit subs and always will. The ceramic two tone version of this piece 116613 is also beautiful
I own the Ceramic two tone and absolutely love it...solid point re: the glide-lock clasp! Put off buying one for years thinking it would be gaudy, but on the wrist it is refined and beautiful!
I'll go with the seiko. looks very strong, beefy and very handsome diver watch.
Hey TGV,
Great great content! That Marine Master is soooooo beautiful!
Cheers!
Thank you sir :D
Best regards,
TGV
Great video gents - a quick point about difference between gold & steel with regards to weight neither is heavier because if you have a kilo of steel and a kilo of gold = 1kilo. However as previously mentioned gold has greater density than steel in other words a 1inch cube of gold will weigh more than a 1 inch cube of steel because it has more “stuff” in it. Best regards from Australia
Thanks TGV, another great show! I have mixed feelings about the gold, on the one hand it is visually and I'm sure handling it is nice change for a tool watch and some would argue that it is just showing off. However, lets not forget that gold that has been chilling at the bottom of the ocean since the Spanish inquisition is still doing just fine! So really for a dive watch is there a better material?! Thanks again. Avid watch lover and truly enjoy your down to earth discourse.
Jacob
As for the TT non ceramic sub, the clasp is quite a big deal and by far the worst part of them all, you can hear it when you turn your wrist a bit. The blue with the text is hard to read sometimes, but what matters is the hands, which you can read very clearly. The lume isn't too bad, it lights up more, but doesn't last as long as the ceramic, nor does it pick up light as easily. The cyclops doesn't have anti reflective material on the non ceramic. The gold really looks good and it is justified by the fact that most subs aren't used as tool watches anymore. I associate Rolex with gold, and they have their own gold, which is even more special. I love blue, and a splash of gold too, which is why this is my absolute favourite Rolex of them all. One tip TGV, don't put your wrist so hard on the table with the watch on, when it scratches the clasp, and is polished, the logo can fade because of that, another little negative about it.
I was wondering when the MM300 would pay a visit.. That watch is dying for a TGV Review!! Great Stuff!! BMJ ENGLAND
The MarineMaster is also a Diving/Fashion Watch As Well. Basically A Dive Watch.
Some heavy hitters on the channel well done.Cheers.
This Seiko is incredible... It has been months that I'm turing around it like a fly above a jam pot... Well this video does not help either. It is turning me crazy now. I need one soon
Haha, love the imagery there, I don't blame you.
Life is short my friend, if it's been a month long watch crush, most likely it's real love ;-)
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
What a beautiful video!
You should do more videos together, your synergy is absolutely mesmerizing.
Thank you so much Georgi, many more planned time permitting.
Best regards,
TGV
Proud to be wearing my SKX seeing Seiko produce a great watch like this MM
BANG ON!!!
Thank you and enjoy my fellow SKX brother!
Best regards,
TGV
Great video. Thank you!
Something about blue and gold combined doesn't sit well with me, HOWEVER, a much darker like navy blue would look amazing
I have to 100% agree with you, imo it looks ugly and the MM300 looks way better.
Bezel on the seiko mm300 is painted stainless steel. 8l35 movement is pretty much a unadjusted grand seiko movement . Pretty much a recreation of the Seiko 6159-7001. Love mine to bits
the MM300 is killer and will become a classic, if it isn't already. and it's good value compared to a lot of the swiss alternatives. I have the MM1000 which is also killer, but it's even chunkier. great review guys. go Seiko!
The mm300 is hand assembled at the grand seiko site in Japan. the polishing art goes right back to the samurai sword polishing art.
Makes sense, thank you for sharing that. So is the polishing done the same way as the GS I reviewed a while back?
Thank you John,
Best regards,
TGV
Best Watch Reviews Ever!!!!!
Thank you sir, deeply flattered.
Best regards,
TGV
To answer the question about no ceramic bezel and the use of hardlex glass, after much research on this watch, this is what i found....
Seiko have made a dive/tool watch to do a job.
If sapphire is hit hard enough, it will shatter, which isn't good underwater. Hardlex will be damaged but hold up to impact.
Ceramic bezels will chip, if hit hard enough, but a metal bezel will not.
The Seiko is designed to function superbly as dive TOOL watch.
Seiko do use sapphire and ceramic on their super high end watches, but that is because people expect and want it, and won't buy without it.
The Seiko MM300 is possibly the best dive watch available......
However, if you sit at a desk all day, then Sapphire and ceramic will be just fine👍
For all the obvious advantages of the ceramic subs, the pre-ceramic cases is a nicer shape. Slightly less bulky and more elegant as a consequence.
That Seiko is stunning, wish it were a smaller size though. Love the content as always.
YESSSS!!! that would be amazing,
Thank you Anthony,
Best regards,
TGV
I think that a two tone sub is an attention grabber as where a steel sub is understated in the right way
Thanks a lot for the amazing videos TGV! Run into a two tone sub in black recently on street, it gives you a splash of gold in a very subtle way. In some light condition, it seems just like a SS sub. It might be a good choice for someone who want some gold but don't want the shout out loud all gold models. Great video! Thanks guys!
As always a good show, Tristano! And my thought on the two-tone Rolex is: to each his own. Keep up the good work, sir!
TGV your episodes are the best thing to watch late at night while drinking some scotch ;)
Cheers my friend, keep up the amazing work!
Thank you sir, very honoured!
Chin chin and bottoms up!
On the vino myself ;-)
Best regards,
TGV
That two-tone is for the arduous task of diving into a pool of caviar 😲
To be honest, I think it's a beautiful watch and elegant, not gaudy.
LOL, YESSSSS
Top comment, thank you Mike :D
Best regards,
TGV
On the Seiko, there is no bezel insert. The bezel is made of a single piece, paint and covered with a beautiful lacquered finish but unfortunately not scratch resistant. Another original aspect of this watch is the monobloc case.
WOW, seriously?!!
How fascinating, thank you.
Best regards,
TGV
interesting thx fr sharing :)