Sadly, I think at this point, Viktor would argue that "we are one" means his consent to turn his followers into this is the same as their consent. That, logically, they understand this is the correct decision, and any doubts they may have just come from things like fear and pride clouding their judgment, things he can now take away to allow them to see the situation more lucidly
"I can't believe one of my favorite representations of a sapphic relationship comes from a TV show based on League of Legends." There's a saying here in Brazil: "the world doesn't turn and spin, it capsizes thrashing". At this rate, we'll have a unified Korea based on how their leaders agree on which version of DnD is the best.
14:55 That commentary you made after Jinx and Caitlyn's conversation is really interesting and nuanced; drawing a distinction between grief and loss, with guilt. Jinx is used to feeling guilty about the deaths she caused.... Vander, Mylo, Claggor, Silco, etc. However, feeling grief and loss? That's actually new territory for her and shows her growth this season. Ultimately, guilt is a self-focused emotion.... i.e. how I feel about what something I did. Meanwhile, the recognition of grief she showed Caitlyn? That's remorse and crucially, empathy for someone else's pain. Something Season 1 Jinx likely would struggle to have.
During Caitlyn and Vi's argument at the start of the episode.... I think the real sting for Caitlyn is that she *_knew_* from the start that Ambessa was manipulating her. Despite all her rage, Caitlyn is not dumb. And she even called them out to Ambessa's face on a few occasions. _And yet,_ she nonetheless still _allowed_ herself to be manipulated by Ambessa with eyes wide open anyway.
Sky saying her goodbyes to Viktor was too sad :( The Line is such a painful song, the lyrics are heartbreaking. Arguably, Mel never cared about Viktor. But she did respect him for his gifted mind. It was wrong of Jayce to blame her for not saving both of them, but I can see where he is coming from. At least CaitVi are together, finally.
Oh, I'm not saying Mel had reason to save Viktor! You're so right! Especially since she didn't even know what she was doing...and those two never got along lol. But Jayce getting angry over being an 'investment' when Mel was very clear in s1 that she DID consider him an investment and then taught him the ways of Piltover politics so he could manipulate people the same way, she was always straightforward that Jayce was worth something because of Hextech and then as a council member. They never would have gotten together if it had been any other way. (sorry meljay lovers, but if hextech hadn't succeeded that night, mel would not have been hunting jayce down in exile to be with him.) I LOVE how morally grey Mel is in s1, so it struck me as unfair for Jayce to blame her for things she never pretended not to do. (Like...wow Ambessa how dare you attack Piltover!!) He didn't object at the time she considered him an investment, so it really felt like he was dragging up anything he could to justify his anger because he wanted to be angry with her over something. He probably would have done the same with anyone who walked through that door because, yeah, I understand Jayce needing to be angry too, just to let the emotion out. So I also see why he got angry, but I don't think it was about the rights things, yk? Short story, I stand with my morally dubious wife and wish they'd kept her moral dubiousness as a defining feature this season ;;;;;; But yeah hard agree on Mel never caring about Viktor.
11:51 And there you touched exactly on my only real issue with this season: The pacing. Whilst I absolutely appreciate the "three acts of three episodes" thing, and think it worked perfectly for season 1, I do feel that season 2 really needed to be 10 episodes instead of 9, and maybe (god forbid, because they are fantastic) should have cut one or two of the musical bits, along with ever so slightly trimming a few of the slower and more climactic moments (i.e. Jayce killing Victor in ep 6 could have trimmed one shot). But primarily, it's the extra episode. Committing to 2 seasons was definitely the right move IMO (a third season would have felt bloated), but as a result, so much is going on in season 2 that it doesn't quite have enough room to breathe. One more episode would have let us get to know the rest of Caitlyn's Squad, get to know Loris by giving us more time with "Pit-Fighter Vi" rather than just a montage, let us spend a bit more time with "Dictator Cait" to help smooth out her return to form (which as is, feels a bit sudden), and even free up time for some character moments which are absent in the finale (no spoilers, but it's nothing major).
Here's a big one that I haven't seen anyone comment anywhere: Viktor's first few words always stuck with me as idk... potentially problematic? He says to Jayce "If you're going to change the world, don't ask for permission". Well... that is indeed a dangerous line of thinking, and we can see right here where it can lead.
I was talking about Viktor in the comments of another video about how freakin 'go big or go home' he is like...YES! Viktor has absolutely no reservations about chasing after what he wants. He steals Jayce's notes, he gets the keys to the lab, he helps Jayce solve the problem with Hextech (in a couple of hours!), isn't careful in the lab, uses Shimmer despite the known consequences, and then becomes Hextech Jesus and goes and founds a cult instead of trying to figure out what his actual abilities are, which Jayce would have helped with no questions asked. Also decides to heal Vander in a split second despite, again, there being consequences. As much as he gets characterized as the serious and methodical one by many people, Viktor tends to make decisions in the moment, makes drastic decisions, and just generally commits to the bit no matter what he's doing. He never asks for anyone's permission, and argues against the people who tell him 'no'. (Heimerdinger) So, no. No asking permission for anything ever, even changing the world. I LOVE that aspect of his. It's a cool contradiction for a character who is socially reserved to have such a bombastic way of making decisions. :D
A lot of people have shared the concerns about a prison cell, but let's be real, if any one of us was in that cell with Vi and she kissed us like that, we'd all be down. Like, I'm some kind of ace and I'd still be saying "Yes ma'am, thank you ma'am."
I've always think that Cait sent the guard away from the prison so that , as she knows Vi, she made sure she could go see her sister easily... But It didn't hit me until know that maybe she the though: "what if I and Vi were togoether alone in the prison?" LOL
Quick note about Jayce's hostility toward Mel seeming out of the blue. Remember that Jayce was almost exiled because he dared to even toy with the idea of mixing tech with magic. You'll remember one of the councilors saying "Piltover was founded to escape the warmongering of mages, not cultivate it!". In essence Jayce has been taught his whole life to fear people with gifts like Mel's, so now he doesn't trust her. (Also lowkey think he was contemplating she might have been able to save his "partner" Viktor but chose not to)
A lot of people misunderstand Victor's statement of "I will evolve all those willing." This is an inclusive statement, not an exclusive statement. He said nothing about NOT evolving the unwilling. If he evolves everyone, he kept his word and did not violate his statement. If he had made an exclusive statement such as "I will not evolve the unwilling." then he would have to violate his word to transform the unwilling. Then there is the background bit of information, When Viktor evolves someone he keeps a copy of their mind inside him, and runs those minds like a computer program on Viktor OS which is installed on the hardware of their upgraded bodies. If Viktor consumes them (without evolving them), they are just puppets. When Jayce blasted the core out of Viktor, he destroyed the backups of the minds of those Viktor evolved, so those bodies were just shells. After the commune falls, Viktor gives up on humanity, and just seeks to replicate himself in the shells of his victims.
Between episode 6 and episode 8 I feel like the writers (for whatever reason) committed character assassination. Viktor is an idealist, a humanist, and an ethical transhumanist, that's very very clear up until the end of episode 6. After that point he starts behaving in ways that are not even remotely justified on screen. I can make up a hundred head canons to try to make the pieces fit, but I think it is basically that they only had half the screen time they needed and because of league of legends lore Viktor MUST become the machine herald and classically this was a much more villainous character. So the writers just skipped the part where we see the full why. I'll have more to comment about Viktor after the next and final episode (we needed nine more!)
You can dislike it which is valid, but the pretty obvious explanation is that beforehand Viktor thought he would be able to “evolve” people while still allowing for the good parts of humanity, but then after his commune was destroyed due to the “bad” parts of humanity, he came to the realization that the good and bad are fundamentally interlinked and that “the glorious evolution” would require rejecting humanity all together. The EP 6 ending monologue pretty clearly portrays/implies this; it’s not just “a headcanon”.
I mean, in the end it’s Victor’s own doing for corrupting himself. Not Singed. Remember Victor was the one who went to the under city and ask Singed for shimmer. No one told Victor to do that. It’s all him. Last, Victor did ask Singed for permission. He said: (Doctor you may begin the process) turning his followers into creepy mechanical dolls and himself as a machine. Glorious evolution has always been Victor’s goal.
Things we learn in this episode: Vi licks the frosting before eating her cupcake. Mel is a true badass. Being a big sister to Isha and her death finally broke through years of Silco's mind games for Jinx. Victor has gone full on Q. The creators have also admitted they have a longer cut of the Vi/Cait sex scene. Also, I loved your breakdown about how the sex scene with Vi and Cait was one of the best depicted real sex scene, and it is based on League of Legends, a game I have absolutely no interest in. Arcane and LoL are two separate properties with the same characters as far as I'm concerned. I totally skipped season 1 originally because, LoL eww. I just binged it all last month and I'm so glad I watched it.
For a good time in the spirit of camaraderie in kinship, I highly recommend watching this creators reaction to Vi and Cait's prison scene. She too is a girl who likes girls just FYI so there was big appreciation for the representation. ua-cam.com/video/0nXOyxtcgCc/v-deo.html
I do disagree with you on Death of the author to an extent. If an author/creator is still living they still reserve a lot of creative control over their work. I.E. They can make a follow up work or works which will supercede the original narrative. They are the authority on it because they created it and know the intent behind it. Everyone else just has interpretations. Once the author either dies or stops publishing. Then it is solely up to peoples interpretation because there isn't an authority who can explain the intent behind it.
Creating a follow-up work doesn't negate 'death of the author'. Sure, the author can continue the story and thus make changes within it that way, but that's different from sitting outside the story and attempting to direct interpretation of it from outside. The thing to remember is that authors can incorporate themes and ideas they aren't aware of at a conscious level. So unless they deliberately address the themes within the work, they are in no place of privelege to address the work from the outside.
The way I see it, the author is arbiter of what is "canon" but can't be the arbiter of interpretation. Though, one thing I really disagree with Kyra on is the idea of an author "not making something obvious". Something being "obvious" is actually very variable and subjective. Something intended by the author could be obvious to a large group of people and not obvious to an equally large group of people. It's a slippery slope because hypothetically someone could find almost nothing "obvious" and thus have an interpretation that goes in direct opposition to the entire work.
Haha, just to be clear, when I say obvious, I mean in a way that cannot be misinterpreted. Like...Hamlet stabbed Polonius. Very clear. The man is dead. What the repercussions are on Ophelia can be up to debate, but a conspiracy theory about how Polonius actually dodged at the last second so only received a non-fatal wound, played dead, snuck out later, and was the one who drowned Ophelia in the stream is silly. I mean...go crazy, but that's so very much not what happened and no one would take that interpretation seriously.
I absolutely *love* the way Vi and Caitlyn's relationship is anything but perfect, but they still choose each other. And the way their s-x scene is so real and genuine makes it one of the best of such scenes I've EVER SEEN. It's not perfect, and it's not all about their bodies, it's about THEM; their eyes, their hands, the way they truly value each other beyond just the s-x. It made me have to take my hoodie off when I first watched it lmao
Sadly, I think at this point, Viktor would argue that "we are one" means his consent to turn his followers into this is the same as their consent. That, logically, they understand this is the correct decision, and any doubts they may have just come from things like fear and pride clouding their judgment, things he can now take away to allow them to see the situation more lucidly
"I can't believe one of my favorite representations of a sapphic relationship comes from a TV show based on League of Legends." There's a saying here in Brazil: "the world doesn't turn and spin, it capsizes thrashing". At this rate, we'll have a unified Korea based on how their leaders agree on which version of DnD is the best.
14:55 That commentary you made after Jinx and Caitlyn's conversation is really interesting and nuanced; drawing a distinction between grief and loss, with guilt. Jinx is used to feeling guilty about the deaths she caused.... Vander, Mylo, Claggor, Silco, etc. However, feeling grief and loss? That's actually new territory for her and shows her growth this season. Ultimately, guilt is a self-focused emotion.... i.e. how I feel about what something I did. Meanwhile, the recognition of grief she showed Caitlyn? That's remorse and crucially, empathy for someone else's pain. Something Season 1 Jinx likely would struggle to have.
During Caitlyn and Vi's argument at the start of the episode.... I think the real sting for Caitlyn is that she *_knew_* from the start that Ambessa was manipulating her. Despite all her rage, Caitlyn is not dumb. And she even called them out to Ambessa's face on a few occasions. _And yet,_ she nonetheless still _allowed_ herself to be manipulated by Ambessa with eyes wide open anyway.
Sky saying her goodbyes to Viktor was too sad :( The Line is such a painful song, the lyrics are heartbreaking.
Arguably, Mel never cared about Viktor. But she did respect him for his gifted mind. It was wrong of Jayce to blame her for not saving both of them, but I can see where he is coming from.
At least CaitVi are together, finally.
Oh, I'm not saying Mel had reason to save Viktor! You're so right! Especially since she didn't even know what she was doing...and those two never got along lol. But Jayce getting angry over being an 'investment' when Mel was very clear in s1 that she DID consider him an investment and then taught him the ways of Piltover politics so he could manipulate people the same way, she was always straightforward that Jayce was worth something because of Hextech and then as a council member. They never would have gotten together if it had been any other way. (sorry meljay lovers, but if hextech hadn't succeeded that night, mel would not have been hunting jayce down in exile to be with him.) I LOVE how morally grey Mel is in s1, so it struck me as unfair for Jayce to blame her for things she never pretended not to do. (Like...wow Ambessa how dare you attack Piltover!!) He didn't object at the time she considered him an investment, so it really felt like he was dragging up anything he could to justify his anger because he wanted to be angry with her over something. He probably would have done the same with anyone who walked through that door because, yeah, I understand Jayce needing to be angry too, just to let the emotion out. So I also see why he got angry, but I don't think it was about the rights things, yk?
Short story, I stand with my morally dubious wife and wish they'd kept her moral dubiousness as a defining feature this season ;;;;;; But yeah hard agree on Mel never caring about Viktor.
11:51 And there you touched exactly on my only real issue with this season: The pacing. Whilst I absolutely appreciate the "three acts of three episodes" thing, and think it worked perfectly for season 1, I do feel that season 2 really needed to be 10 episodes instead of 9, and maybe (god forbid, because they are fantastic) should have cut one or two of the musical bits, along with ever so slightly trimming a few of the slower and more climactic moments (i.e. Jayce killing Victor in ep 6 could have trimmed one shot).
But primarily, it's the extra episode. Committing to 2 seasons was definitely the right move IMO (a third season would have felt bloated), but as a result, so much is going on in season 2 that it doesn't quite have enough room to breathe. One more episode would have let us get to know the rest of Caitlyn's Squad, get to know Loris by giving us more time with "Pit-Fighter Vi" rather than just a montage, let us spend a bit more time with "Dictator Cait" to help smooth out her return to form (which as is, feels a bit sudden), and even free up time for some character moments which are absent in the finale (no spoilers, but it's nothing major).
"Does a person like Jinx deserve a second chance? Can a monster ever be forgiven? I don't know!" (Christian Linke, "Bridging the Rift" - part 1)
Here's a big one that I haven't seen anyone comment anywhere: Viktor's first few words always stuck with me as idk... potentially problematic? He says to Jayce "If you're going to change the world, don't ask for permission". Well... that is indeed a dangerous line of thinking, and we can see right here where it can lead.
I was talking about Viktor in the comments of another video about how freakin 'go big or go home' he is like...YES! Viktor has absolutely no reservations about chasing after what he wants. He steals Jayce's notes, he gets the keys to the lab, he helps Jayce solve the problem with Hextech (in a couple of hours!), isn't careful in the lab, uses Shimmer despite the known consequences, and then becomes Hextech Jesus and goes and founds a cult instead of trying to figure out what his actual abilities are, which Jayce would have helped with no questions asked. Also decides to heal Vander in a split second despite, again, there being consequences. As much as he gets characterized as the serious and methodical one by many people, Viktor tends to make decisions in the moment, makes drastic decisions, and just generally commits to the bit no matter what he's doing. He never asks for anyone's permission, and argues against the people who tell him 'no'. (Heimerdinger) So, no. No asking permission for anything ever, even changing the world. I LOVE that aspect of his. It's a cool contradiction for a character who is socially reserved to have such a bombastic way of making decisions. :D
Thank you for your reactions! Your insights are awesome!
A lot of people have shared the concerns about a prison cell, but let's be real, if any one of us was in that cell with Vi and she kissed us like that, we'd all be down. Like, I'm some kind of ace and I'd still be saying "Yes ma'am, thank you ma'am."
I've always think that Cait sent the guard away from the prison so that , as she knows Vi, she made sure she could go see her sister easily... But It didn't hit me until know that maybe she the though: "what if I and Vi were togoether alone in the prison?" LOL
Quick note about Jayce's hostility toward Mel seeming out of the blue. Remember that Jayce was almost exiled because he dared to even toy with the idea of mixing tech with magic. You'll remember one of the councilors saying "Piltover was founded to escape the warmongering of mages, not cultivate it!". In essence Jayce has been taught his whole life to fear people with gifts like Mel's, so now he doesn't trust her. (Also lowkey think he was contemplating she might have been able to save his "partner" Viktor but chose not to)
A lot of people misunderstand Victor's statement of "I will evolve all those willing." This is an inclusive statement, not an exclusive statement. He said nothing about NOT evolving the unwilling. If he evolves everyone, he kept his word and did not violate his statement. If he had made an exclusive statement such as "I will not evolve the unwilling." then he would have to violate his word to transform the unwilling. Then there is the background bit of information, When Viktor evolves someone he keeps a copy of their mind inside him, and runs those minds like a computer program on Viktor OS which is installed on the hardware of their upgraded bodies. If Viktor consumes them (without evolving them), they are just puppets. When Jayce blasted the core out of Viktor, he destroyed the backups of the minds of those Viktor evolved, so those bodies were just shells. After the commune falls, Viktor gives up on humanity, and just seeks to replicate himself in the shells of his victims.
29:33 same lmao
Between episode 6 and episode 8 I feel like the writers (for whatever reason) committed character assassination. Viktor is an idealist, a humanist, and an ethical transhumanist, that's very very clear up until the end of episode 6. After that point he starts behaving in ways that are not even remotely justified on screen. I can make up a hundred head canons to try to make the pieces fit, but I think it is basically that they only had half the screen time they needed and because of league of legends lore Viktor MUST become the machine herald and classically this was a much more villainous character. So the writers just skipped the part where we see the full why. I'll have more to comment about Viktor after the next and final episode (we needed nine more!)
You can dislike it which is valid, but the pretty obvious explanation is that beforehand Viktor thought he would be able to “evolve” people while still allowing for the good parts of humanity, but then after his commune was destroyed due to the “bad” parts of humanity, he came to the realization that the good and bad are fundamentally interlinked and that “the glorious evolution” would require rejecting humanity all together. The EP 6 ending monologue pretty clearly portrays/implies this; it’s not just “a headcanon”.
I mean, in the end it’s Victor’s own doing for corrupting himself. Not Singed.
Remember Victor was the one who went to the under city and ask Singed for shimmer. No one told Victor to do that. It’s all him.
Last, Victor did ask Singed for permission. He said:
(Doctor you may begin the process) turning his followers into creepy mechanical dolls and himself as a machine.
Glorious evolution has always been Victor’s goal.
Things we learn in this episode: Vi licks the frosting before eating her cupcake. Mel is a true badass. Being a big sister to Isha and her death finally broke through years of Silco's mind games for Jinx. Victor has gone full on Q. The creators have also admitted they have a longer cut of the Vi/Cait sex scene.
Also, I loved your breakdown about how the sex scene with Vi and Cait was one of the best depicted real sex scene, and it is based on League of Legends, a game I have absolutely no interest in. Arcane and LoL are two separate properties with the same characters as far as I'm concerned. I totally skipped season 1 originally because, LoL eww. I just binged it all last month and I'm so glad I watched it.
Also, Vi predicted the future in the 4th episode of season one, saying to Cait "the undercity is going to eat you alive"
For a good time in the spirit of camaraderie in kinship, I highly recommend watching this creators reaction to Vi and Cait's prison scene. She too is a girl who likes girls just FYI so there was big appreciation for the representation.
ua-cam.com/video/0nXOyxtcgCc/v-deo.html
I do disagree with you on Death of the author to an extent. If an author/creator is still living they still reserve a lot of creative control over their work. I.E. They can make a follow up work or works which will supercede the original narrative. They are the authority on it because they created it and know the intent behind it.
Everyone else just has interpretations. Once the author either dies or stops publishing. Then it is solely up to peoples interpretation because there isn't an authority who can explain the intent behind it.
Creating a follow-up work doesn't negate 'death of the author'. Sure, the author can continue the story and thus make changes within it that way, but that's different from sitting outside the story and attempting to direct interpretation of it from outside. The thing to remember is that authors can incorporate themes and ideas they aren't aware of at a conscious level. So unless they deliberately address the themes within the work, they are in no place of privelege to address the work from the outside.
The way I see it, the author is arbiter of what is "canon" but can't be the arbiter of interpretation. Though, one thing I really disagree with Kyra on is the idea of an author "not making something obvious". Something being "obvious" is actually very variable and subjective. Something intended by the author could be obvious to a large group of people and not obvious to an equally large group of people. It's a slippery slope because hypothetically someone could find almost nothing "obvious" and thus have an interpretation that goes in direct opposition to the entire work.
Haha, just to be clear, when I say obvious, I mean in a way that cannot be misinterpreted. Like...Hamlet stabbed Polonius. Very clear. The man is dead. What the repercussions are on Ophelia can be up to debate, but a conspiracy theory about how Polonius actually dodged at the last second so only received a non-fatal wound, played dead, snuck out later, and was the one who drowned Ophelia in the stream is silly. I mean...go crazy, but that's so very much not what happened and no one would take that interpretation seriously.
I absolutely *love* the way Vi and Caitlyn's relationship is anything but perfect, but they still choose each other. And the way their s-x scene is so real and genuine makes it one of the best of such scenes I've EVER SEEN. It's not perfect, and it's not all about their bodies, it's about THEM; their eyes, their hands, the way they truly value each other beyond just the s-x. It made me have to take my hoodie off when I first watched it lmao
Also, I love the shirt! My gf and I have been watching Schitt's Creek together lately and I've been greatly enjoying it.
Viktor was always 90% selfish 10% help everyone in the Undercity. He was always the villain.