Revolutionary Cold Weather Layering Systems
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2023
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Learn about proper cold weather layering here: ua-cam.com/video/2JPxAo5lavU/v-deo.htmlsi=GI3pOugPQR0_L1qY
There’s one big thing with the base layer that Soldiers make mistakes on. Under Armor for the last 20 years has made people think that their base layer must be skin tight. If you need junk support, sure. BUT for cold weather application, that base layer needs to have a loose fit to it so that you have breathability between skin, base, and waffle. That way when you get where you’re going you may have some moisture in the garment but it will be minimal. Little tip I picked up in the Alpine Course here at Ft Drum.
I actually hate skin tight clothes.
The german army shirts are amazing because they‘re quite loose fitted.
Thx for the info. I was considering getting rid of my size L Rab Conduit Pull on and replace it w/ a M. Great waffle stuff, but unusual loose fitting in a layman perspective.
Great tip, thanks a ton for sharing.
Skin tight helps it to wick better/faster, but also makes it feel colder when it is wetted out, because all the air gets displaced by water and the solid material and water are significantly more thermally conductive than air. If it is more loose fitting, you get some stilled air between your skin and the wetted out fabrics.
It's not really about breathablity. Breathability is primarily determined by the CFM levels of the fabrics, and the CFM is determined by the amount and size of void areas between the fibers (and contrary to popular belief, natural fibers are no more breathable than synthetic fibers, just depends on how they are arranged in a particular fabric matrix). The exception is unless the fabrics are EXTREMELY loose on you, like with a poncho, and you get a bellows effect where air can get underneath etc the clothing layer i.e. mechanical ventilation.
@@justinw1765 It depends on the duration of exercise. The effectiveness of evaporative cooling is dependent on humidity. Larger internal volume can allow for more evaporation before a certain level of humidity is reached. In short bursts, I suspect that baggier clothes are more comfortable. If you are doing a sustained effort over several hours, it probably doesn't matter either way.
I was in one of the norwegian armys recon units. We could ski with netting and goretex uniforms in 20-30 minus. No problem at all. Its all about having good rutines, and do the right things correclty. Im stil using this method today while hunting grouse and moose in the highlands.
The idea of fishnetts comes from norwegian fishermen, and it is adopted by most of the nordic countrys military today.
Brynje has mesh top " with inlay" that has solid shoulders and may help with the cheese- grater .
Oh man. I could go off on bad clothing and sleeping bags. I was introduced to Wiggy's a while back so this was foremost on my mind when watching this video. When the fish net came out I was like "Wow he knows about fishnet." then Wiggys was mentioned and I was like "Ok, now I know where he learned it. This video should help a lot of people".
Brynje is a much better product than Wiggy's. To me Wiggy;s is a knock off who does not fully understand what he is making or doing, just my opinion.
@@tomsitzman3952 Any fishnet will work better than regular baselayer. The basic and most important factor is keeping a layer of non wetted air between your skin and the next, wet layer of your clothing system. That, and greater breathablity, is what fishnets do and why they are better as baselayers. Next in line, is high void grid fleece that Patagonia used to (still does?) make for baselayers. Same principle, except that it is like a combo fishnet baselayer and light mid in one.
Brynje is top notch, used it a bunch when i was in the norwegian armed forces. A cheaper vertion of it is also a part of their issued gear. Did you know Brynje actually translates to Chainmail in norwegian😉
I only have one of their tops. Now I'll be putting on my chainmail. Thanks!
Brone gelete “in Russian”
Chainmail, Interesting. Thanks for the translation.
I used this when I went to Ranger School in the winter of 1983/84. It was called "Norwegian Fisherman's Underwear" here. This was just before the advent of polypropylene "silk weight/base layer/wicking layer", and Gore-Tex. In those days thermal underwear was the white cotton/wool stuff shown. We had polyester sleeping shirts - the best thing ever - and five-button wool sweaters. Leather gloves with wool liners, balaclava hats and wool watch caps. In "extreme cold weather" you got thick wool overtrousers and shirts. And rubber pneumatic "Mickey Mouse" boots. Trigger finger mittens. Down sleeping bags. This stuff worked but it was heavy and soaked up water. The issued thick cotton/nylon fatigues were tougher than a two-dollar steak from a five-dollar whorehouse but were IMPOSSIBLE to dry. I think I still have some fifty years later and I'm still waiting for them to dry. This stuff was never meant to keep you dry (or comfortable), but even wet it would keep you alive in some pretty cold conditions. Since you couldn't possibly keep outer layers dry, the advantage of mesh underwear (not mentioned in the video) was that it would keep the wet cloth away from the skin and create pockets of insulated air. That's why fishermen wore it. I could only get white, had to dye it black myself. Oh and you cut the knees out of the pants otherwise kneeling on the mesh for days on end would eat up the skin on your kneecap.
the old German word for chainmail is "Bru(e)ne/Brüne" :) Like in Brunhilde the woman from the Nibelungen Saga. Looking forward to buy one. But I need longer arms+legs on those.
Wiggys is number one
Thanks for giving him the props he deserves
I am glad to see that other people have finally caught on to the "fishnet" style base layers!! I have been using a brand called Alclima for a while and they are awesome. Used them for Wisconsin deer hunting and also when going on day hikes when it's really cold -20°F and such. I sweat easily and this style breathes fantastically. Great video!!
Mesh will keep you cool in summer and warm in winter.
Summer: Next to skin + a loose smock or combat jacket/shirt on top that allows airflow....you may be too cool.
Winter: Next to skin + fleece shirt + Smock. The fleece shirt has to be a close fit to keep in the warm air and the smock cinched down. If rucking in winter: mesh + close fitting windproof shirt.....right from the start-line....people wear warm kit but have to strip off 2 minutes in....so suck it up at the start.
The Armadillo shirt is hugely expensive....much better option, my opinion, is the Woolpower Ullfrotte shirt....less than half the price and more effective. Wool/synthetic mix, lightweight meshy material with a towelling underside that transports moisture and allows in air. Comfortable, hardwearing and doesn't look at all odd worn on its own. Comes in different weights/thicknesses.
good ol' fishnet. Way back when in the 70's I picked up some imported from scandinavia via EMS store where I worked during college, fishnet top and bottom. I was a furnace back in the day. Rock climbing, Ice climbing, winter backpacking, xcountry and downhill skiing etc besides hunting and hiking teaching 'kids' in college how to. Busy every weekend doing some kind of trip. One trip just buddies and I we got stuck in one of the worst blizzards in the high Catskills and tremendous temperature drop single digits at night. That fishnet really saved my butt. Snowshoeing breaking trail for the other guys in about 2 feet of snow for miles really worked me out. No flat area in the mountains. All I had on upper body; that fishnet top, a weird old school polyester open kinda weave summer time short sleeve shirt and and old school uncoated single ply ripstop windbreaker. Warm, dry, absolutely perfect. The summertime short sleeve wicking and super thin 32' synthetic tshirt ;got them at costco, is my go to now in the frigid, sarcasm, NC winters. Good test, do your PT , jog run etc in the 125' plus in the open field of summer in NC to test if the base layer gets soaked or just damp. I wear an overshirt for ccw while doing this stuff. My old oxford shirt long sleeve. Am I damp from sweat yes, but not wet! I take the shirt off, tried wringing it out to see if sweat soaked the shirt, nope, not at all. My cotton pants are absolutely soaked. Outer shirt, wet at contact points to my body only. Great video, going to look up that new fancy fishnet!
I hope you are still getting out and doing it. I'm 81 and still burning calories enjoying the outdoors.
Excellent! Keep outside! Keeps you 'young'@@tomsitzman3952
Wiggy makes great stuff. It may not be the lightest or the most compact but it works. He has been in the business for a long time and knows his stuff. I was in Grand Junction Colorado this summer and made a visit to his store and factory. Had a great conversation with Jerry and he gave me the tour. His stuff works. Physics does not change. I try a lot of different gear and his stuff just works. And many props and thanks to a guy who builds his stuff in the US and employees US workers. Top quality stuff.
Hell yah Randall! I'm stoked to see you plugging Wiggys! His gear is the shit! I have multiple pieces of his kit that I use for hunting and camping. His single person bivy shelter is clutch for moto-camping. His gear is built to last too. Definitely grunt proof. Best of all, you call Wiggys...he answers the phone and will take the time to answer all your dumb questions. I have his fishnet underwear and also a few pieces of Brynje thermowool. I tend to run hotter with Wiggys so I primarily use it for late season hunting. Probably the most versatile of the fishnet imo, is the Brynje A-shirt. Not only is it awesome for cold weather, but you can wear it as an undershirt in warmer weather and it won't get sweat logged, unlike a common cotton A-shirt. The most versatile combo I've found for high output activity is a thermowool fishnet top under Polartec Alpha, with a windshirt for a shell. It's all about that breathability!
I can only agree with you. In my 30 years of service experience as an infantryman, I can highly recommend the Brijne netzshirt as a base layer. Nothing works better for me.
Yes! Many years of hiking and sweating in cold temps I've found much the same. Waffle or mesh next to skin , Merino Wool, loose fitting light Wool. Loose fitting allows air circulation. Polartec on the outside wicks and breaths.
Polartec 👍
When you say loose fitting wool. Could this still be a loose 200 merino 50/50 mix?
@@Dave0Star 50/50 is certainly more afordable but not as warm when wet. I have both but when I'm on an outdoor trip it's all wool for my base top.
But synthetic dry faster@@OldPackMule
@@moo4595 yes they do but what I've found (my opinion) is that they end up cooling me off too fast as they dry. The wool doesn't seem to make me as cold when it's transitioning from wet to dry. It doesn't smell as bad either.
Brynje and Aclima are among the best. Not really expensive, except for dual layers, but replace piece by piece and you'll have for a long time.
Brynje is the best base layer I have ever worn for cold weather active wear in 60 years...I can not believe how it works....over that I also wear special forces mid-layer... Alpha by polar tech..this alpha or alpha direct blows away all mid layers worn over the base...over that a soft shell breathable hoodie...I'm good down to 10F...no more sweat!..breathability for days!.it's unreal!...just my take..I Live in the Adirondacks and winter backpack..
The String Vest as worn by Wallace ( and Grommit) is the original high performance tech base layer.
I love when you cover this this shit never gets old.
I have a Patagonia capilene hoodie which is similar to the waffle top, and it’s indispensable in the backcountry. Weight to warmth is incredible, and that layer under a gore tex shell is good for high activity down to mid teens easily.
I bought a Patagonia capilene hooded pullover maybe 20 years ago with a mesh back and roll down cuffs that convert to thumb holes or rolled all the way become mittens. I have never seen another one. I wore it this past weekend on an overnight bike ride from Hell, biking 9 hours a day in a killer head wind going and returning. The mesh back keeps me dry no matter the temperature. in a store or in their catalogue.
Had one of those fish net shirts for a couple of years, yes cost a few quid but worth it.... also a good piece of non issue kit, the Buffalo shirt, made over here in Sheffield, again, costs a few quid, but all the NCO's on the ranges wore them, and they last so good value long term.
Never did any cold weather exercises aside being stuck in the mountains of Afghanistan. We were all told wearing layers and accepted the pros and cons this method. I'm always learning new things watching your channel and challenging my previous notions. Awesome bro!
Appalachian gear company makes something very similar. Testers and users seem to really like it for the same reasons that you mentioned.
That fish net is awesome idea, i used to strip down and go, then layer up and down as i backpacking this is incredible!
Good information Randall!
Wiggy's makes great sleeping bags, I keep one as part of my winter emergency truck kit!
FYI: We are issued undershirts that are mesh and ribbed to provide airflow under our body armor, yes they do help but in Texas you still sweat!
Agreed! I have used Wiggy's sleeping bags for 20++ years on extended horse-mule pack trips. I still use the original bag they are warm & tough!
Amazing! Thank you so much for sharing this better method to stay warm but not wet when working hard in the cold. 👍
Fishnet works. And you can look good. For the ladies too. Well, if you're in good shape. Lol. Thanks Grunt. Excellent information. Cheers 🍻
This is some legit information that is hard to find. Thank you for the effort put into this - it's a surprisingly difficult topic to get this level of information about. Never heard about the fishnet stuff. Appreciate the effort you put into it and sharing the thoughts in the way you did. Makes sense to me.
Armadilla! LOL. Glad to see you haven’t lost your upbringing! Thanks for keeping us informed on gear that works. Thought you might have come home for Cruisin The Coast. If you had I’d be buying you a round or two. Stay well!
A very informative video. Thank you. The midlayer topic you're discussing I've seen used by one company doing similar product for the weight maniacs where the warmth to weight ratio has to be top notch. Haven't thought how it transports moisture. Again thank you for this great video
Great video. I grew up in Florida never had to deal with this. This was some serious good info, as I now live and work in colder weather. Thanks a bunch for this!
Aclima woolnet - yes you will look like a low budget adult movie star, but keeps you comfortable 3 seasons and stink free for days
I love it. I don't get outside in the mountains in the winter as much as I would like to, but work outside in the cold all winter. You do a great job of showing alternatives to high priced work gear that make financial sense based on durability. Keep up the good work.
I've been wearing the Super Brynje underwear for decades, hiking and skiing in New England, and it works. I even use a short sleeved top under a cyling jersey in the summer, and it keeps you cooler. Great stuff. Lasts for years of hard use, too.
I was wondering about the nordic mesh cold weather surplus gear, now I know. Awesome!
Hey Randall great video!!! I own a couple of wiggys sleeping bags , they saved me and my GF toghed it out RIP JACKIE. when my mother board went on my heater 2 winters ago. They worked very well all winter after the heater broke beginning of February, we didn't have money to fix it till the summer. I highly recommend wiggys bags for the cold.
Cheers
Outstanding.
Pretty thorough. Ty.
A large majority of people just have no idea about proper layering in winter and especially in regards to material selected and the difference it can make. I grew up in the Midwest and have been in some God awful cold weather in my days. I now live in Tennessee and the weather is milder, but still some pretty cold days in winter. I am a big fan of the merino/spandex blended base layers offered by Firstlite. I think they are 90% Merino wool. I wear the mid weight bottoms all winter and the mid weight tops (Kiln) are pretty much a staple for me as well. I work outside, so you learn real quick what works and what doesn’t. I ordered the Armadillo Lynx top on your recommendation and am looking forward to adding it to my daily use winter wear system. Thanks for your excellent videos and keep ‘em coming!
Love Wiggys. Love fishnet. Have lots of his stuff. Among other advantages it keeps the cold wet shirt from plastering to your back.
Thanks Randall! That was some very interesting information. Ill be looking into the fish net base layers for this winter. 2 back to back knee replacements healing slowly. And im really looking forward to some winter rucking and hammock camping. Cheers from BC Canada.
You’ll be healed before you know it mate . Take it easy and breathe lots n trust that you’ll be ruckin before ya know it
You’re doing better than you think you are - I just feel it :)
Angels be with ya
Love Armadillo's stuff, small enthusiastic company and have some of the best socks I've worn. Would recommend!!
I used this on bike (white color), long time ago and then took it for the SOF unit. I agree with you.
I really appreciate your videos, both entertaining and informative. About 14-15 years ago, a nurse practitioner gave me two allergic reactions to some new fangled anti-biotics within a 2 week period. I spent the next year laying on my bed concentrating on breathing as if I didn't I stopped breathing. Major bummer. I'm just now to the point where I am starting to exercise and lift again. A buddy bought me a Jimmy and I'm beginning to get out again. The info you disseminate is very helpfull and I greatly appreciate it. Your sort of like a life saver and I always believe in giving credit where it's due. Thank you so much, amigo! Incidentally, I'm a Vietnam vet! 68 years.
Always good advice Randall!
We used to trade with our fire crews for their String base layer before we went to the arctic, made a massive difference in keeping warm.
Awesome idea! Definitely worth trying.Many thanks!!🤠👍
I've switched out all my cold weather Military gear out for Wiggy's. You can't beat his products. Plenty of information on his website to back up his claims and testimonials . The fishnets run small, so order up a size. No one can beat his sleeping bags.
Due to prudent preparedness, I found myself packing a deer out of the western slopes of the rockies in loafers, cackie shorts and a long sleave cotton t shirt. It was a hard lesson I will never forget. This is great info, I am going to have to try the fetish layer and dilla shirt.
In mountain warfare school I just wore the marine corps equivalent to the ninja suit (we call it poly-pro) and my goretex shell when I was conducting heavy movements. As soon as I would stop I would put on my grid fleece and was fine.
Great insight Randal
Great stuff Randal. Wiggy's makes awesome stuff. I haven't, yet, picked up the fish nets but I have his Super light bag and over bag plus his booties and I've been down into the -30s. Only thing that got cold was my nose until I readjusted my mask. I'll have to check out Brynje for the fishnets but at the moment Armadillo is a little out of my price range.
Nate
Coincidentally (or maybe not, who really knows the ways of the YT algorithm?), I just picked up a 28" long knitting board, with the objective of making a set of fully fashioned fishnets from cotton string, 3/4 length bottoms and long sleeve top.
Cotton was the OG material for these fishnets on the old school mountaineering and especially on the early polar expeditions, where manhauling heavy sledges of gear over pressure ridges, through drifts, and across open leads was all in a day's work, despite the modern "cotton kills" mantra. For those unacquainted, manhauling has been described as "the hardest work to which free men have been put in modern times". Caloric intakes of 8-10kCal/day when available still lead to wasting.
Not sure yet if I'll use butcher's twine or what. My local Walmart has skeins of 4-ply cotton which looks like it might work, has a pretty good twist to it, and is a bit thinner than the kitchen and garden twines.
I'll try a smooth stockinet stitch for the shoulder areas where pack straps and toboggan strap will bear, and a fine gauge rib for the waistband and the cuffs. I may put a patch of cotton canvas or ticking over the shoulder areas, as well. 3/4 length bottoms will prevent "alligator skin" on my shins when wearing touring boots or tall pack boots. Tall wool socks will be my base layer on my shins.
I have tried "black wool" long handled lambswool underwear, modern miracle fibers, etc., but still have trouble with moisture control and over heating when engaged in even moderate work (splitting wood, shoveling, recreational snowshoeing) in the winter. I'm hoping the combo of a fishnet base layer combined with a tightly woven, windproof but highly breathable, cotton shell (Ventile/eta-Proof would be great, but I may start with cotton pillow ticking), will be a game changer for me. I'm not sure if I'm unusual in this, but as I get older, I have found that I stay warmer if I wear less insulation than if I am overdressed. Probably I'm just a slow learner.
If the cotton doesn't work the way all the old timers said it will, I'll unravel a thrift store wool sweater or two, and build a set of fishnets from that.
Nice tip on the Armadillo stuff, though. That looks like the cat's pajamas for someone who doesn't want to fool around with making a set and has the wallet to cover the bill.
For anyone interested in old school approaches to thriving in cold temperate to sub-arctic conditions - hot tenting, toboggans and more - "Snow Walker's Companion" by Conover and Conover is worth a read. It's been reprinted fairly recently. I picked up a copy a couple of years ago from Ben's Backwoods in Michigan, when I also bought a length of lampwicking to make sourdough style snowshoe bindings to fit my Baffin pack boots to my milsurp shoes, but it can be obtained elsewhere, as well.
I suppose one could sew some tulle on the insides of their baselayer. Might be worth the effort for those who are into the MYOG thing.
Glad you brought this up. Very interesting...first time I've heard of this.
I wore wool fishnet top and bottoms on through hike in sierras in the 1980s. Worked great in hot and cold weather. Traps a layer of warm air when not miving much and breathes for real. Elevation from a 1000 feet to 14000 on mt Whitney and when i was in germany in 1980s in 2nd Cav wore it under flight suit in colder months and when just going places or skiing etc. Worked great there too.
My late Scottish grandfather was on a whaling ship by the age of 14 . He loved his fishnets nets for the cold highland winters .
He also told me sirens n mermaids were real and as I was a virgin I was a threat to them fishing
Hahahaha
Normally i dont just go off the cuff on a gear review and get the jones to buy some shit. Especially something expensive.
But you poped this video out the night after a debrief for my SAR team.
We had a callout and did have a wickaway base layer, a synthetic hoody, and a light vest. callout search at +4500ft desert mountain terrain with some mild winds but huge temp drop from desert basin. Op went overnight. Turned into a recovery (bummer for bad intel) but that base layer nearly got me whinging like a little girl everytime we stopped. No kidding by the time we wrapped i dont know if i had another 2hrs in me. for me the cold crept in fast and it took a long longbtime to get heat back. It was almost like i had been sprayed with a sprinkler then went to a walk in fridge. Seemed like Randal is just 'yeah, it gets cold.' Go figure amature versus lifelong pro grunt. But i was alright compared to most.. Had teams fall off. Hense our aar was ruthless on our lack of preperation.
But we added a bunch of med and sustainment gear to our packs this year so im not looking to add a 2lb fleese lined sweater that will make me do the hookey pookey as i over heat and cool off. Vs a regulating top that keep it lite in the pack and warm on the body. Just not brave enough to be the first dude on the team to wear fishnet shirts bro... Just not ready for that kind of smoke.
So adding a breathable layerbunder a duty shirt may be the closest i can get to a magic bullet unless i try a handful of shrooms and viking honey meade like those nordic boys do. Skoll!
Thanks for the video man. I might have to check these out. Of course I just bought the waffle and ninja tops and bottoms.
Rocked the mod “crazy jakes” broe poly pro in ranger school from Nov 98- Jan 99.
Outside of us in the 75th and SF IN late 1990s…no one else had the first gen spear gear / sleeping system. We were lucky.
I would have never known the different reasons for using a waffle top if it wasn’t for this video, thank you.
Always great info!
The practical application you describe is spot-on. The net / web type undergarments really allow you to be a little less cold when stationary without causing you to overheat when you haul ass.
The physics side of things is not exactly correct but close enough. Sweat on the skin does not evaporate quickly without a sufficient temperature difference. The places where we sweat are also the warmest so it’s not vapor going thru the base layers and it’s not condensation that makes the base layers wet. The base layers will often wick droplets straight off the skin and the next layer may wick some of it off the base layer as well.
As the liquid sweat spreads to a wider area and moves away from the hot spots it starts to evaporate. Evaporation is an exothermic reaction i.e. requires heat and that’s why those fast-drying synthetics feel cold when wet.
A key benefit of the net is that despite soaking some sweat the contact area against the skin is small so there’s less heat loss from conduction.
When it gets really cold and your activity level is high with breaks in between, there’s no silver bullet clothes you can wear all the time. Using pit zips and other ventilation to regulate the insulation level of your clothes gets you somewhere but the best solution is a packable jacket you can don over everything else when you stop and stow in a medium to large GP pouch when it’s time to move.
Yep, this is exactly why I like to combine a fishnet baselayer with a light/thin, quick drying, well wicking, somewhat tight fitting synthetic baselayer over the fishnet. * The fishnet keeps me feeling warmer/more comfortable when sweating a lot (due to the conduction issue you mentioned), while the more typical baselayer helps to move moisture away either via evaporation and/or transferring it to the next layer in liquid form.
* With that said, I don't always use a fully synthetic next layer over the fishnet. I've found that inexpensive, Costco sourced, 32* Heat brand baselayers that are mostly polyester and acrylic, but have 22% rayon are pretty nice too. It has just enough rayon to decrease odor, but not enough to significantly affect/lengthen drying times.
(Re: odor, I've also noticed that the nylon based fishnets get less odoriferous than the polypropylene ones, and if they do get stinky, it is easier to wash it out. This is probably partly because nylon is significantly less hydrophobic than polypropylene [chemo-electrical surface charge polarity relates to both the level of hydrophobicity *and* type of microbe proliferation interestingly enough]. But PP wins for drying the fastest and feeling the driest even when water is ingressing through the fiber interstices).
The newer and better wicking Dri-Release stuff is pretty good too, whether the natural/semi natural 11 to 15% fiber inclusion is cottton, tencel, linen, or merino. The latter 3 do *slightly* better with odor.
silk union, blue johns, and down vest with hood, all with buttons or zippers. I add a headband so I can pull the hood and not freeze my ears. Keep your feet and hands warm.
I have been running fish nets with merino t shirt over that in freezing temperatures with great success, if its windy or raining, I run a shell instead of the t shirt. Pants with side vents make a big difference too
Had no idea about the mesh! Although, the pair of long underwear I use for cold weather stuff has mesh on the top. I just on the back, but it works pretty good.
Brynje is the best!!!! They have a Brynje USA in Idaho.
The lightest weight helly Hansen Lifa base layers are good in winter , they’re non-thermal so they don’t cook you and they’re a mesh pattern , not quite fishnet but not a tight weave material either.
I work SAR in central Colorado in the winter time. My current layering system up top is: OR Alpine 1/4 zip, Patagonia mens R2 or Melenzana 1/4 zip,(if it's cold enough) enlightened equipment Apex synthetic jacket, and black diamond Recon jacket. I typically havr a helmet on but if not I wear a beanie on top of the OR ninja-clava that covers my face. I find this set up works great weather I'm back country skiing, doing technical work, or just sitting down to about -50f. 1/4 zips are kind because they allow you to vent a significant amount of heat regardless of what pack or harness you have on.
Might have to try that fishnet stuff this winter
Bought a set of the Duluth ribbed base. Used them deer hunting in late December, warmer than previous base layers. Have used them snowboarding 5 days, simply amazing. Have worn them on 6 short winter rucks, again amazing warmth, wicking, aren’t nasty smelling, dry out quick. Wore them ice fishing again very warm. At $50 per item worth testing out.
Good stuff! 👍
Thanks.
I'm sold! Looking to grab lynx in near future
Winter camping has got me stoked
Danish soldiers have been buying Aclima's Woolnet for years. It's a Norwegian company and as far as I know the Norwegians actually get it issued. Don't ask if we're jealous.
I remember getting issued gortex and “buffalo” liner, along with polypropylene.
It’s was all NEW at the TIME. We were told it was all made from recycled plastic bottles.
Thank you.
I spend a lot of money on Merino and now I do not like it if I am Rucking it is to wet. The German Army is just gearing up, I saw the new Leyersystem on UA-cam. They go for the breathable Underwear Ninja suit. I think Wiggys is the way to go for movement and change cloth in the camp if possible. So If I get money I will buy a fishnet shirt, the video is very convincing.
Really interesting. The fishnet tops are worn a lot in Jamaica. Obviously, cold isnt a factor but the breathability and vapor transfer seems obvious.
Ever had someone tailor a combat shirt for you? I'm thinking of doing a mesh lower and sleeve baselayer, and then put a more substantial shoulder and collar on it.Might work well even in summer.
the fishnet gave me bruised parts on the body under heavy loads over long tracks
I take just a normal hotweather running shirt, and above the wavel top from Defcon 5 (which we sold many to soldiers). If it is extrem cold, I take 2 layers of wavel under layer and on top, when I have a hiking stop, I use some windbreaker. If I stop for longer (OP/tent time/etc.) Iuse some Merino items, as long I don't move and sweat.
Worked for me, as a easy freezing guy, down to -22 °C.
Thanks a lot!
As a Norwegian who sweats easily and alot, nothing beats brynje Arctic Netting for moisture management in cold and wet when you have to work hard. Brynje has 2 layered garments aswell, but of course they are very hot.
My revolutionary piece of clothing was finding 2 layered Helly Hansen merino. It has a thin polypropylene layer against the skin, so its more hard wearing, dries faster and manages moisture better than pure wool imho.
Do you remember what the HH top was called? I'm curious to try it out. Thanks
There is a company called Indera that makes double layer baselayers. One of their lines has silver treated, 100% polyester in a loopy-airy matrix on the inside, and a 30% Merino and 70% polyester blend on the outside. Much less expensive than Brynje and Helly Hansen. And much less smelly than garments with a lot of polypropylene in them. Nothing builds up stench like polypropylene, and because the surface energy of this material is so low, it is very hard to do any kind of anti stink treatment/coating. (You could put graphene oxide into the plastic while it is still melted, before it is extruded into fibers, but I don't think anyone is doing that with PP yet).
Hoooo weee those Armadillo look really nice but they are 'spensive! I gotta find me some budget options!
You should try silk liners. Especially silk turtlenecks. Cheap silk from China has been around quietly since the 80's, and way before that it was pricey ski liners.
Just make sure that if you buy colors, you prewash them to get the copious dye out.
Great video! Would love to see you review/see your thoughts on the Duckworth products. I own a number of them and really like them but would love to hear your opinion.
If it wasn't so expensive, I'd like to try Eberlestock's stuff. A lot of it has zippers that open mesh vents on hotspots.
Wool is the only material that will keep you warm even if it is wet. I used this layering system when I used to throw trash for a living. When you work outside there's no place to hide
I'm from Finland and very familiar with this issue. In my village was a dude that served in foreign legion. He used to wear pantyhose every winter, sometimes with shorts. We always tough it was a bit weird and gay :D But for what I have heard it used to be more common for men too before they became to be a sex symbol. I have noticed that weaved materials breath a lot better than regular fabric.
I’m seeking the north west passage we found, rain deer skins with the fur turned inward is the best in arctic environments.
Great vid !
Merino / layer / second set dry socks for camp / sleep cool & don’t sweat into layers or bag …. Prevent active sweating into layers of super active during the day. Keep those vents open on the gortex if sweating / wash that foot sweat & salt off feet prior to slipping on sleeping socks. Yes- merino works, doesn’t smell and will keep you warm when wet. If you are moving a lot and have too many layers, won’t matter if poly or merino etc as everything becomes soaked. Start your day chilled and not overdressed & sweating ….
As far as old school - read diaries of Norwegian 🇳🇴 Roald Amundsen. Think loose fitting shells or Anorak style jacket were moisture can flow without getting trapped when active.
I agree man, fish net works great for first layer and drys relatively quickly. I’ve tested this in northern Canadas sub Arctic / low Arctic and high Arctic Greenland 🇬🇱 Norwegian camping 🏕️ / Nepal 🇳🇵- still find waffle tops bit too warm if carrying a large load while heart rate pumps. Merino is amazing but wears out fast ….agree
I have a wiggys sleeping bag and can attest to the quality. The old timer owner is a hoot.Very strong opinions and seems like he’s been excommunicated from the retail outdoor community. They don’t take kindly to his debunking.
I had never heard of Wiggys and I’m m excited to learn of the company but I know I had seen some European armies with fishnet style base layers in the past!
Brynje is great. Their most cost effective item is the XC-suit which is all one piece.
There's also alternative brands peopple might wanna look at:
- Svala (my favorite)
- Aclima
- HÄRKILA
Personally I am frugal and only use my Svala on specific trips, to extend it's lifetime.
What I use most often is
- Cycling inner mesh clothing. skin tight. Summer - tank top; Winter/Fall/Spring - longsleeved. Tshirt mesh under casual clothes year round, and during most Spring/Fall sports.
- MTB inner shorts (with antibacterial padding)
- Women's fishnet stockings (also used by some American Footbal players) for winter and under casual clothes.
1969 Colin Fletcher's The Complete Walker spends 2 pages discussing fishnet underwear and it's virtues. In version III he gives more detail. Works great for tough mountain backpacking or cross country skiing.
I still have that 1969 copy in my library, with the drawings of fishnet next to chain link armor. That book introduced me to a long love affair with fishnet.
I was wondering this very thing. If it works so well on the upper body, do people make it for the lower body?
Yes the do, or did. @@cbbbbbbbbbbbb
Great video. Will you review your DCU parka in the same way you did with the M-65 since it's the end of October?
Nice, better than the nylons we would wear elk hunting back in the day
Its an open door, that it is a good idea, to look at traditional clothing!
For extreme cold it make sense to look what innuits & Sami people wear!
They lives there for centuries!
The same for the dessert and tropical rainforest and so on!
Give him one! 🫱🏻
The synthetic base layer is now a commodity item which can be bought at BiMart. It serves as a time buffer, of the evaporative cooling process (traps the sweat). Highly effective for cold weather and high activity but not really a breathable option.
The PCU chart suggests at 30 degrees F and below, taking off the base layer after your active period ends, and adding a fleece and Happy Suit/Marshmallow suit/ Belay Jacket & pants. Also suggested is not wearing a base layer below 0 degrees F.
Beyond clothing has an excellently breathable base layer called the Aether L1/A1, it’s made of the Micro version of grid fleece.
🎶 “Meet me down by the railroad track, track.”🎶
wiggy has the best gear going....
I’d see photos of Norwegian soldiers wearing these, but I’d never known what they were for. Unusual for sure, but cool
Extremely helpful video. I have been mountaineering for years now and this is revolutionary stuff for me. Thank you. I have the exact problem you are talking about when sweating during winter activities. However, one thing I did not understand - do you wear Brynje Fishnet Shirt on your skin and then Armadillo Lynx Zipup on top or Lynx Zipup is basically 2 in 1? I see you are using Lynx Zipup on top of some other material not Brynje Fishnet (11:49 minute on video). How does it work. Are these two items go together or separately? Regarding Brynje Fishnet is it better to have it tight to your body/skin? Or is it better to have some space between skin and the shirt?Close fit or regular fit basically. Thank you for your answer. Greetings from Croatia.
So ive used.my ECWCS multiple ways. No mater ninja bottoms, with or without eaffles or.many times just waffle bottoms it doesnt matter it does not manage moisture. I always have swamp a$$ and a soaking wet groin. Never managed mositer well for me. Never seemed breathable. It is warm and use it more for when im not moving.much and sitting around or sleeping.
Like your videos thank you for your service. I had 30 years in Armor & Cav
The ECWCS is best in movement WITHOUT the base layer
@GruntProof even with just waffle bottoms without the ninjas I sweat like crazy. I like the system just never managed my sweat well. To be fair I've always been a heavy sweater. I think I want to try that Armidillo Lynk to see how that does
We don't wear those bottoms during movement.
@GruntProof I get you don't. But I'm not worried about sweating during movement when I'm riding in an Abrams. Inside is either a sauna or ice box. No matter which bottom I used alone or together it still did not manage my sweat. They never pulled the moisture from my body. Your movement was very different from mine. Most of the legs just wanted to stand behind my Abrams to warm up. Now that I am retired I use then for hunting & fishing in cold weather when I'm mostly static and only walking short distances. Still waffle by themselves don't manage my moisture