Asmongold Reacts to "FFXIV vs Other MMO" by Misshapen Chair
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- Asmongold watches "FFXIV vs Other MMO" by Misshapen Chair, talking about the differences between MMORPG, mainly World of Warcraft in its current state, Shadowlands, and Final Fantasy 14 but also newer MMO (Lost Ark, Ashes of Creation and New World). This addresses in-game mechanics, gear systems, pay-2-win cosmetics such as store mounts and more.
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Original Video:
FFXIV vs Other MMO
• FFXIV vs Other MMO
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#Asmongold
I'm a super casual and thats ok. On WoW I was a pet battler and pet achievement chaser. Leveled up and still never got to the Covenants. In FF14, my goal is to do one savage raid but i'm still casual so it's slow going but my God the amount of things I do. Crafting alone takes me hours to do. Thing is, I enjoy FF14 more because there is things geared to the casual player to do all day beyond farming dungeons. But learning fights is hella fun. Love the channel. Have watched the mount-off with my husband many times. Stay Strong Asmongold.
@@Hooga89 I think having very difficult high end content in the game for players who want to push their limits that not everyone can beat is okay. I feel like not all casuals should be able to do mythic. They can just stick with lfr/normal and maybe some heroic.
@@wizurd4286 I think Hooga was just pointing out that you can access Savage/Ultima without having to prep for hours everyday. The gold cost and gear cost of being a raider is something you could afford simply by leveling to max level. There are no progression systems that make you stronger in the game outside of gear. So you could buy gear and still be relevant at the end of a raiding tier, therefore being able to do what you want to do: raid. While in WoW mythic raiding costs retarded amounts of money and you have to grind secondary systems of the game which make it impossible for a casual that only has so much time to meet requirements of the average mythic guild.
@@wizurd4286 He isn't saying the content isn't hard but rather that you don't have to prep for the raids nearly as long making it possible that more casual players could from a time standpoint prepare for and try the hardest content. FF has just as hard or harder content than WoW, it's just not as time gated.
@@wizurd4286 I think part of the issue is that wow focus too much on that high end content that 80% of the player base will never touch.
FF gives the casuals so much content that most dont feel bored or pressured to do the high end stuff just to enjoy the game.
Wow has really good content for the top players but is barren for the casuals.
Lot of people commented. You guys are right, I misunderstood the statement. I totally agree prep time for high end content in WoW is way too long. Thanks for your replies all. Appreciate it!
To me the fact that YoshiP himself says stuff like "You don't have to be subscribed constantly" is huge. The people in charge literally saying "Don't give us money if feel like taking a break from the game. It's ok, come back when you feel like it" means a lot to me.
It means that the whole thought process behind the game is geared towards not wasting your time and it shows. It's ok to take a break. Go play WoW, go play another MMO, go play Elden Ring, go play other games. Come back in 2 months, in 3 months, in 6 months or next year. It's better to play occasionally an be happy rather than feeling forced to keep your subscription up all the time and treat one single game as if it was a job. The devs understand this and people appreciate the game more because of that.
I played WoW waaaaaaaay back in the day and even then I did not play nearly enough to truly understand the game, so I can't formulate an informed opinion about most of the game, but from what I see in Asmon's and other content creator's videos I'd say WoW doesn't work this way and it's part of what is ruining the game.
This mentality makes financial sense, can't make money out of people who get burned out after a couple months and quit for good. Having a good part of the playerbase sub for only 6 months per year is good since they will sub that much in the following years, which means more money in the long term.
Yoshi P may say whatever he wants, and i doubt most players even get to hear what he says or even know him at all. A lot of systems in the game are meant to be time demanding.
Yoshi P ALSO said we would never loose our houses.
so...yeah.
@@cattysplat The issue is that they're using things like that as a band-aid to the bleeding sub numbers, less people buying the new expacs and spending sub money, but more sub money per person plus cash shop because let's face it, people who still play wow when 90% of the game is chores which are developed as cheaply as humanly possible, the story's gone to shit, AND after it was let out that a large portion of the devs and the CEO taking your money are sexual pests who drove someone to suicide, are VERY likely to spend money on cash shop items.
The secret all along was to rip the bandaids off and let the wound heal itself, they refuse to take them off, so they will never see the infection underneath that is about to spread to the bloodstream and kill it.
@@Kpaxlol A LOT of players tune in to Letter from the Producer LIVE on Twitch and UA-cam to hear him say things like this. Same for FanFest and the special Live Letters during The Rising (anniversary of re-releasing the game and fourth wall breaking 'thank yous' from the development team done in game). There's a reason a LOT of players appreciate what Yoshida and the rest of the dev team have done, even going so far as sending them yearly birthday books with fan letters, art and other fan-made media. Very few systems in XIV are time consuming - the worst are beast tribes, savage/ultimate raids and relic weapons.
Love the fact there are so many things to do in FF14.
Got bored of wow when it was a cycle of log on, get better gear, repeat.
With ff14 I'm actually going for all the optional stuff out of sheer fun factor.
While my friends in ff14 were grinding mounts, I turned my end game into "collect all the triple triad cards" just because I wanted to, because I like triple triad and it sounded funny to them.
Then I find out there's a mount for collecting cards that's literally a giant ass card.
So now not only am I collecting these for fun, I'm getting rewarded for doing so with titles and mounts in the process.
WAI WAIT HOLD UP when did they add a mount for collecting all the cards? cause im super close
@@clindsell6111 not sure, but you need to collect 312 cards and you get it.
Most annoying ones to get are the botzjan, blue mage, and eureka cards.
@@clindsell6111 it got added in 5.55
Everything in FF14 is enjoyable unless you optimise the joy out of it. Even crafting is fun. I have a bunch of lvl 30 combat jobs and almost all of my crafting and gathering jobs are 30+.
What i love about ff14 is that the grind is still there for the people who want it, eureka AND bozja both.
IMO Eureka is easier than Bozja these day, you barely see a full party running DRN, had to carry a group of new peap from FC through as WHM coz newbies keep wiping hard. Kinda fun to solo tank and heal in DRN though.
Downside of Eureka is it serves no purpose outside of glam. If you could use it as a means to actually level a job, I would have all jobs to 90 through Eureka. I'm the minority that actually enjoys how the (current)Eureka grind is designed. Bojza improved somethings, but overall the grind isn't as good.
thing about bonja is yes i am in there grinding my levels on alts and will most likely grind for relics. but i dont have to grind for my rank again. that the huge difference between ff14 and wow. and now as i grind in bonja as i get more mettle i can spend it to actually get more power. that actually helps me grind my other jobs as it give me higher hp and harder hits.
@@brooksp1191 one good thing is you can cheese part of the grind in Pyros with Refect farming.
@@ksNanoSquid i loved the bozja grind. Took me about 2 weeks to get the bike mount. Then I grinded weeks more just to level jobs to 80. At the same time I'm making millions from fragments and lockboxes. I'm getting so many rewards relative to the effort I put in.
Holy shit, Asmongolds speech on players that think overcoming 'tedium' and how mmos are meant to be played is some of the greatest words spoken on gaming in general. Been playing a lot of Black Desert again recently and thats absolutely the mindset of all the hardcore players and the 'whales'. And at a certain point its almost understandable. Like if they've been playing since day one on a game and wasted their time grinding, they dont want new players joining and progressing to end game in just weeks.
It's some modern day Sisyphus type shit lol
WoW is always sooooo proud of the system/feature they made that they always force everyone to do it. And when everyone says that it sucks their reply is, 'No, you just have to try it a bit more'.
And then 6 months later people have stopped plying the game because of the systems, the devs suddenly say, 'We heard your feedback. Seems that you don't really like that system too much. So, we nerfed it by 25%. So now you still have to do it, just not as long.'
And then a year later when hardly anyone is still playing or past the system they say ,'Yeah, so we see that this system is a problem. So we removed it, everyone can now play the game... please come back.'
You can say the same thing about the Ffxiv story. They're so proud of it that they force everyone to do it.
@@sweetfry I see your point, but not exactly true. in both FF14 and WoW you can pay to boost. Difference is, in ff14, if you boost, you bypass all the story and can play endgame.
In WoW if you boost, you still have to do all the systems.
@Gabriel Cestari that wasnt my point. My point is that you're being forced.
@@99range92def That's my friend is what people in the know call an "opinion.".
It doesn't matter how good the story is if the way its presented isn't and if it hinders your ability to play how you want. You cant even access dungeons and key parts of progression without doing the MSQ, and the msq, to many is an absolute slog.
@@m.h.w.weckseler I'm not defending WoW I'm just pointing out the facts. You shouldnt need to pay for a boost to be able to play the way you want.
What I like about ff 14 is it gives me time to play other games. I can progress at my own pace without getting burnt out. When I quit wow I realized I was not playing a game but quitting a job.
When you play ff14 with a more serious/competitive static raid group it’s basically the same thing as wow, less people in the actual raid group but it’s basically a part time job
@@gameolver6013 Does not surprise me at all. I just like the fact I do not have that urgency and stress wow would put on me to have to keep up with everyone else.
@@Zerif69 You put that on yourself, stop trying to convince yourself or anyone else otherwise. You just went into FFXIV with a different mindset, because it was new to you and you didn't feel like you had to accomplish something because of all the experience you had in the game.
@@clauslarsen8971 Not so true my dude it is more that ff 14 has a lot more different options for me to accomplish with out having to worry about missing out. If you did not keep up with you raiding guild in wow simply because you wanted to take a break off of it to let's say level some ults or craft you will be replaced and finding a raid spot now just became a lot harder. Finding a raiding guild was always hard back in the day sending out applications to several raiding guilds like you where trying to get a job only to be benched on the third string team till you could prove yourself. Oh and I do not know how wow crafting is now but when I played most of the professions where useless but the game seems to be just as grindy as ever. WoW will always be the game that I had some of the best times playing mmorpg's but also the worst.
i would say FF14 cut all the fat out and put it to the side of the plate. there are insane grinds in FF14 but you know what you don't need to do them at all. things like the mentor grind people would be furious over a grind that would take 6 months of 8 hour days every day to get for a mount in wow.
Actually such grinds exist in WoW and people just don't care. Going for the Prestigous Bloodforge Courser starting fresh takes really long too.
Just a few small issues.
It's more accurate to say that people would be furious if that grind was necessary for something important.
If there was a grind that took that much time in wow for a mount specifically, people would only be mad about it if the wider context was that the pool of mounts added in the same expansion were mostly garbage and all the good mounts were in the store, except for that one great non-store mount that's stuck behind a 6 month grind, *then* they would be mad.
Granted, if there was such a grind for a mount in WoW, it is *highly* likely that it'd be the only great mount outside of the store, given their recent history, but it's easier to understand with that clarification.
Seriously, I love that the FF14 Devs operate off the idea of "Got burned out? Ran out of things you want to do for now? Take a break and go play something else. Check us out in a few months and we'll have something new out for you, and you can see if you'll enjoy that". And yes, if you get really into housing you're probably going to want to keep your Sub active during that time, but beyond that you don't have to. Cancel your sub, go do other things, come back to see if the new content is worth your time.
Yeah that's what I'm doing right now . Lost Ark is more appealing to me atm. I did endwalker and I've been turned off by the chore vibe gearing is giving me. Regret reupping my sub tbh. The people grouping for savages are toxic af too. People quitting after a few wipes, complaining about this n that and offering no constructive criticism. Blahblahblah
@@sweetfry I don't care about Savage raiding and have been getting glam in Eureka instead as well as worked towards my goal of getting to 50 million Gil by 6.1
The thing I love about it too is that most event doesn't require you to do it hardcore and you get the rewards, they don't rush you with fomo shit.
The thing I hate about modern games now is that to keep you playing, they throw you events that takes time to do while making it fomo.
@@unloyal4847 events take like an hour tops, and even if you miss them most rewards will be put on the Mogstation in the future
@@sweetfry What chore vibe is there in gearing?
The MSQ gives you more than enough gil to buy a full crafted set for savage, and savage gear serves no purpose other than clearing savage faster and prepping for a super early Ultimate clear.
If you don't like the gearing, skip it, the game is expressly designed to appeal to players like you.
Lost Ark on the other hand, if you haven't played or researched the Korean version, you will be WOEFULLY disappointed if you are looking to escape doing chores, they aren't quite WoW levels of awfulness but they ARE chores and they are definitely necessary if you aim to clear the hardest content and get the most out of the game.
Party Finder systems are all toxic by nature, people look for carries because there is no consequence, people instantly leave because there is no consequence, same exists in all other MMOs with a Party Finder but to a much worse extent, just find a static group to join, they're all over the place (ironically, including in the party finder, just without the inherent issues of regular Party Finder groups)
That Amano illustration of Endwalker at the beginning is so good
WoW players complaining about FF14 being for casuals or too easy is baseless because WoW got popular on release because it was a lot more casual friendly than the other MMOs of the time
Compare it even to FFXI which was go hardcore or fuck off.
@@randalica92 FFXI was what an MMO was in that time. If you die you lose hours of grinding. Nowadays if you go into the game its easier but still XIV is great as casual friendly
@@pedropereira6888 yeah I get that, it's just how MMOs were back in the day.
Zacks got a good understanding of FF14 at this point. its good to see how far hes come. Whenever he decides to play 14 again whenever he chooses, I hope he continues to enjoy the game.
That's exactly why I love FFXIV. It respects my time to play other games and then come back to it.
Sometimes I want to take a break and play some single player games and then pick up where I left off and with those factors is exactly why FFXIV is one of the best MMO's right now
It did take longer to level back then, but I don't remember ever being forced to do side quests. You'd do dungeons, and while waiting for the queue to pop you'd do leves but mostly FATEs. FATEs actually gave decent exp back then, from what I remember.
I was a tank and in 2.0 leveling was super fast since dungeons were instant but i remember my friends and dps guildmates crying all day doing fates and sidequest because dungeons for them had a pretty bad queue.
FATE's and leves still give decent exp but hunting logs are just better most of the time.
The NieR games are soul crushers when it comes to themes, characters, story, and the amount of shock value they contain. Oh and the music is really good too.
Blue mage spell gathering and leveling was soooo much fun, hopefully more to come!
BLU is an enjoyable piece of side content for a lot of people because of all the ridiculous cheese you can pull off with it.
Yeah blue is cool.
The effect FFXIV has in a lot of old mmo players like me, the fact that I can play when i want, log in raid with my group and dc for the rest of the week is amazing and I think there is no comming back, Im gonna try lost ark when it comes out, but Im so sure I wont stand the grind thx to how much ffxiv has spoiled and treated me, after 10 failed 1% gear upgrades Imma end up unsinstalling the game lol
God so many little things that I don't think I can leave behind for WoW.
Having all classes/professions on one.
Catch up xp buffs and daily/weekly xp dumps for alt classes.
No loot lockout on non current content.
All mounts fly, and you unlock flying by finishing the story in an area.
Level sync actually working so you can play old content at the main level.
And probably a lot more I haven't even found since I'm only 6 months in.
Not worth the monthly sub
Same just gonna play Lost Ark for the story and gameplay. I'm out as soon as I have to do repetive grind.
did you overmeld yet xD
@34125867 You *do* need the MSQ complete to get flying in new areas. You get about 75% of the aether currents by exploring but the last 4-5 are behind blue+ quests and MSQ. In fact most areas, the last quest you do before the big finale for the zone is the MSQ quest that gives you the final current.
I started playing back in 2.0 so I very much still remember the days of having to lvl other classes & jobs just to get certain jobs & skills. My biggest vendetta which I slightly still have is against Gladiator, not Paladin. You had to get Gladiator to lvl22 just to have provoke for Warrior, without it you couldn't tank in endgame properly. Back in 2.0 you didn't get your tank stance for a good while, only a DPS stance, & it did not get an AOE ability until much later in lvls. It was hard to try & keep aggro when you're only AOE aggro Flash which consumed MP like crazy. On top of how slow it was to lvl back then, once I got Gladiator to lvl22 I never played it again. On my main I still have it only at lvl22, never touched it, but decided to lvl it on my alt to give it a try with the newer updates. It's my main tank now & maybe some time I might lvl it on my main.
The system of having to level other jobs was the reason I stopped playing a month after ARR dropped back in the day
@@sweetfry overall personally I did not mind it mainly because back then I was HARDCORE BRD only. I didn't want to play any other class or job. Nothing.
But then everything changed when Ninja was released...
So I ended up picking up White Mage cause my Warrior tank went full Ninja (he used to play FF11) & I loved the job. I then started lvling for Dragoon, Warrior, Black Mage & found I enjoyed quite a few classes & jobs. For me if I didn't experience the system as it was back then, I probably would still be very BRD only & not branching out to other jobs.
Although I will say I never want the system to go back to the way it was back in ARR. I don't have the same amount of time nor energy to invest as I did back then & it's quite dated at this point.
Yeah my main is also a max level GLD
When people say "100 hours ain't that bad", you just know they don't play other games.
If you can finish 5-10 amazing single-player games in the time it takes to make preparations to play an MMO, then that's absolutely really bad. Of course, it's a different matter if those 100 hours consist of actual gameplay and good storytelling, but in WoW's case it's often obstacle systems designed to prevent the player from progressing too quickly, rather than optional systems which the player can choose to sink time into out of interest (like, say, Pet Battles).
I raided mythic Highmaul and BRF in WoD, but I really couldn't be arsed to go through the systems in Legion. I tried to come back during Battle for Azeroth, but as Asmon said, it's like looking up at Mt. Everest. Might as well play another game.
"These are the kinds of people that kill games because they treat being able to overcome tedium as overcoming difficulty"
Instantly upvoted the video at this moment.
The argument that tedium does not equal difficulty is something I have been preaching for so many years... ARK survival evolved is a prime example of things wrong with this idea... Everything in that game is designed to take forever. When someone speaks out against that concept in lieu of more fun methods, all the Kool aid drinkers crucify them for "wanting to make the game too easy".... What's hard about sitting and staring at a progress bar for 12 hours while clicking an icon every 2 hours or so?
chat: 'SAM player kekw', '20 wipes on titan he just sucks', 'casual trash'
asmon: I agree with him
chat: 'trueeee'
What I dont understand is why do some ppl defend longer time investment in gearing up and getting bis. Unless u play the game just to gear up and increase your games item level and dont do any endgame or casual content, shorter gearing up time is good. Why should I care about engagement metrics? Instead of engagement through slow timegated leveling, they should engage me with gameplay ffs.
They defend it because the only advantage they have over other people is that they play 16 hours a day
I quit eso because I got bored of my class, and didnt want to start from scratch from to play another class. I love in ff14 that I can play all classes on one character. It feels so good to unlock new classes, and to know if I get bored, I can switch jobs.
Literally, same. Except, Necromancer is my main, its my favorite class by far, I love the aesthetic. I actually quit the game probably about a year before the necromancer class was teased in the Elsweyr chapter trailer, that class got me to come back. But after playing the exact same class for years, it gets boring. So I try out FFXIV and realize how depressing ESO is compared to FFXIV. ESO isn't a bad game but I believe FFXIV is more fun and upbeat.
I've played and been subbed since the ARR relaunch because I appreciate not having my time wasted and the dev mentality. FFXIV also has its issues like any game but they don't even compare to any other MMO at the moment since the game is designed to be accessible and fun to its playerbase with them knowing the money will come in naturally as a result.
Even their old systems that were a stupid pain in the butt like the the cross job system were just bad design decisions of "that sounded better in our head" instead of being intentionally made waste time. The devs also act respectful, fun, and friendly while they genuinely listen to feedback and properly distill from what the players say to what we need.
I'm glad FFXIV is finally getting its massive moment in the spotlight since its been growing and improving for years so its 100% deserved
When i found out what is needed to get the "You Got Game" achievement that gives the Centurio Tiger Mount in FFXIV, involves having to hunt down and kill 3000 rank A elite rares and 2000 rank S elite rare's.......I was SOLD!!! now thats what i call a Legendary mount!! let alone the other 2 mounts you can get for killing a zillion more after xD
Whenever I see one of those insane grind mounts I have to respect that person for their dedication. The Pterodactyl mount especially, you have to grind the firmament out on all jobs for 4 hours a day for 3 months. Its a shame that the Endwalker hunt mount looks really bad.
Whaaaat? That dog mount looks awesome!
meanwhile i get stressed grinding out 12 cogs from a fight that gives 6 cogs per victory for a mount
That dog mount is sick. Idk wat you're talking bout.
@@asmith7651 I've never liked that dog model ever since I saw it. Its both ugly and disturbing in a way I really don't like. Admittedly I have not seen it in game and only on FFXIV Collect. I don't know how it scales, it could be giant for all I know.
The tiger and triceratops are definitely better looking ones imo.
Chair is such a fucking legend, I have no idea why people are hating on him like wtf
I think most of it is just trolling for the lulz? But I'm sure some self-appointed "hardcore" fans get their feelings hurt by his criticism of their favorite games.
Ah yes, 2.0, the days when melee had their own "mana" pool and you could end up not being able to attack because it all disappeared and you're forced to stand there and auto attack until you get enough "mana" to attack again
It was TP, not mana, get your terms and facts straight. You were supposed to manage it and get a cross class skill to replenish it. Blame yourself for stacking skill speed like a dumass
Final Fantasy is still absolutely fantastic, above all the outstanding storytelling. Shadowbringers and Endwalker are probably the most beautiful storylines I've played in my entire life.
Asmon's spiel near the beginning sums it up so well. WoW players are basically in an abusive relationship where their perspective is fucked up. They measure improvements relative to WoW as opposed to measuring it against innovations in gaming and MMOs at large.
The design concepts of Ff14. Is: It should only take 3-dungeons or 3 PvP games for you to either A-gain a level, or B-gain enough currency to buy 1-2 items cost. (Ex. Accessories/weapon).
Its enough to be somewhat of a grind for 1 hour or so. But not too long that it frustrates and creates tedium.
Getting that (just enough) is tough when you dont play your own game. And model based on PTR-hardcore players ability to grind.
The regular joe-shmo is left entirely out of the equation.
As a non-pvper (at least as far as arena is concerned) for my entire life, I have recently tried arena for the first time with a friend in TBC. It's hard to press past the 400 weekly arena points, currently we are even under that amount. It would take like more than half a year to complete just the main set of gear, even longer for things like weapons and my idol.
I don't mean to say it's necessarily a bad system because of this, but it does take a very long time for people who are relative newbies to the pvp scene. Of course, you can always get the prior season's gear for half the amount, but that one is sadly not really a valid option for some classes.
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13:09 that list is exactly why i stopped playing WoW.
I dinged max level, took a look at what i needed to do now to actually play the game, saw that shopping list of tasks i had to do just to play the game, and said, 'Sod that'.
And started playing FF14 instead.
Misshapen chair ia great, I'd love to have Asmond react more to him. They seem a great commenting duo for a video
when ARR first came out, server latency was trash. Titan would do the knockback line attack, and you would run out of it, and the server would be like "nah fam, you were in that" and knock you out of the arena anyhow. People literally could not finish MSQ, or start relics because of it. Coil 5 and Coil 9 were like laying down and letting someone jump up and down on your head for 4 hours.
I did it on Ps3 get better at the game and stop blaming your lack of skills for failing it. Get good scrub
@@zonedout3390 LMAO I've cleared everything except the newest savage in DT
I have so many times when I consider going back to wow. Then I remember all the stuff that I would need to be competitive, where most of it is locked behind a time wall, I change my mind.
I was a “Cutting Edge” raider in WoW… I got frustrated with the amount of time I was REQUIRED to waste in order to just maintain my ability to raid. I heard the good news of FFXIV and thought I would be a hardcore raider there. I did the story and fell in love… and found out I like the game without even raiding. I like how it changed my life. I didn’t have to prioritize a video game over real life in order to be able to play the content I like. I can play casual, and still hop on and do the content I care about. I finished everything this tier and I don’t even have to grind it every week to be ready for the next thing. I can wait for the ultimate to come out, farm the savage when it unlocks, and all caught up again.
I would be 1000% willing to spend 10x more time playing the game and leveling one of every class and unlocking more collection and achievements if the grindy shit was account wide.
I do feel like many of these big dev companies put too much focus on the top 1% of competitive players. It's cool to have a healthy eSports scene or world first race, but that should be secondary to the experience of the other 99% of players.
Love it how content creators forget that the average Joes DON'T have time to play both, they barely have tim to play one of them...to them it matters which one is better because they want to invest the little time they have the best they can.
Why are people discussing this and say when something is not long "oh no the engagement metrics?" Who cares? Not our problem, make a good game and it's being played more. It's really that easy.
if only blizzard realised that cutting out the bs and respecting my time would lead to not only my subscription every month, but also less time clogging their servers. which is just double money for them
Bruh you know how weird it is seeing that thumbnail when you was in that group? Blast from the past... idk how I feel dragging up those memories since they didn't end happily lol... also how'd the editor find the image is it now just floating around google >.>
I started at 5.1 and loved it enough to play it nearly everyday. Shadowbringers was a good place for someone to start, and Endwalker seems good for someone now.
worst expansion to start was HW, and that's cause they were experimenting with so much shit to "improve" the game, the history was awesome, the boss fights were epic, but the game play we clumsy and often did not match the mechanics they implemented on the fights
@@GengArvore Yes HW was rough, worst time to get into raiding too.
but whats the point to start close to the end of the story, unless you dont care much about it
@@MelaniAlarcon this isn't like wow where only the final expansions story matters
You have to play through each expansions story first as its always been set as a big story, not suddenly turned into one without any previous mention cough jailer cough
@@queenbean7071 thats what i was saying, for me is a shame and none sence for new players to skip half of FF14 or start from Shadowbringers, they loose a lot of things,even Hildribrands quests
13:00 This is what made me quit WoW. I'm a casual player and like three things in mmos. I like good a story/leveling experience, sociality and access to hard content. WoW retail did not have a good story and the social element in retail is awful, so let's talk difficulty. I wanted access to the hard content, but the timegating was boring. In FF I always have access to hard content if I want. Like the queue times may be obnoxious, but just leveling through the game and clearing blue quests, getting tomestone gear, it takes no time and now I have permanent access to Thornmarch (extreme) and it will always be a challenge, regardless of my level. (I know queues suck for that trial, but you get the point.)
As much as people don't like Cata much a lot of the dungeons were really good. I remember tanking the Underdeep dung or whatever name it was. Trash mobs had area denial that would kill you if you weren't paying attention. It was an early dung too. That's what I want in games.
Ummm... ESO...
I think its more about Waste of time VS Sense of Accomplishment. If i can do everything easily, its not much fun or its just feels like a waste of time. but on the opposite end, if its grindy as fuck like how WoW does things, thats just stupid. So they need to balance that.
If you want solo boss challenges, Bozja and Zadnor zones have savage difficulty content. It frequently wipes 24, 48 players and the solo challenge is very hard. You've only scratched the surface of FF14. Its intentionally accessible, and casual. But there are lots of content there for hardcore players.
I love how this doesn't even mention BA, which is basically a Savage Alliance Raid.
MSQ in OSRS or even Runescape 3 in general is gonna take you a very long time, since the quests are so... different from what any normal MMO provides. Definitely a grindfest, but some of the unlocks you get from the quests are something you can use to the endgame.
Everyone has an opinion and they are welcome to them. For example, I'll go back to playing World of Warcraft when it's actually a good, immersive game again (in my opinion). The side stuff needs to be interesting and engaging. It shouldn't feel like you have to quit your job if you want to do X in Y amount of time. This is why I like FFXIV. There's always something new you didn't know about. There is also no rush to do it. Again, this is my opinion.
Just FYI you don't need to clarify that your opinion is an opinion 3 times in one paragraph, it is implied by context.
@@PsyDin_ Some people are dense. I'm sure you've met those people. The clarification is for them, in my opinion.
@@Scarheart76 Oh I know, but you shouldn't placate them, they should have the common sense to understand when a statement is inherently an opinion by its nature.
If they don't and get mad about it, let them look like an idiot, I think sentences that constantly clarify that its an opinion come off as awkward, I don't think its worth even the time spent typing the extra words just so idiots don't have a negative reaction.
Why do you think I started crafting/gathering classes.
I like having something to do besides just killing monsters & msq.
I took an 11 year break from WoW and am now just hopping back in. Im just going to stick with that game for now because im excited to grind out the PVP! maybe when i eventually get tired ill move over to FF
14:40: Asmon: There shouldn't be a compromise, there should be zero time wasted.
15:20: Asmon: I'm fine with the grind, I just don't wanna do it twice.
Devs: Gottem 😎
I started playing WotLK on a private server and it's honestly amazing. I can see why people loved wow and I wish they'd make mmorpgs like this again. The core aspect of a mmorpg should be socialization, why make it a mmo if it's played like a single player game? I did in 30 minutes wow what I couldn't do in other mmos in years: actually made some friends. Mmorpgs got so solo player friendly nowdays that people don't even bother talking to each other. I was struggling a bit with a quest in wow, the mobs were hard to kill (not impossible) and someone else was doing the same quest so I invited them and we talked. Now I'm excited to play again and try questing with that person again. Meanwhile I've played BDO and GW2 for years/months and haven't made a single friend. BDO even punishes you for teaming up with other players (less loot and exp). Can't get into FFXIV, the graphics are horrible in my opinion, and it plays like a 1998 game, it's honestly so confusing to walk around and simply play the game that I can't do it for more than 30 minutes, it looks really fun from the outside tho.
So yeah, I just hope they make harder mmorpgs so we can start forming parties to complete quests/defeat bosses again, I'm tired of playing a single player game and pretending it's a mmorpg just because I ocassionaly see other players and never interact with them.
I’m sure there is actually a decent number of very skilled players that just don’t have as much time as they did 8-10 years ago. If they heard one of their favorite games has taken some of the time constraints away in a meaningful way, They would be more than excited to check it out. This could widen the pools to server and world firsts.
Asmon: "... and then we can come back to WoW when it's fixed."
Me: /snicker
Yea it honestly did suck back in 1.0 and early 2.0. I still just tune in to most mmos on a patch by patch basis. Its like he says just play whats fun.
I totally agree with the account-wide stuff. I LOVE that you can do every combat job and every crafting/gathering job on one single character. BUT I do think there's an inherent lack of sidequesting so once you level 1 alt, if you want another, you're kinda screwed into fate farming and such to level. Overall, however... amazing system. :)
devs have apparently made a statement on the sidequests giving such miniscule xp, im excited for when they give those a bump up and make them viable enough
@@ladyarmourlapras oh nice. I missed that. Thanks. :)
It is so funny that in a video denouncing the comparison between these two MMOs, there are still comparing andys in chat the whole way through.
"What I would like to see in FFXIV is one boss Mage Tower encounters for each Job."
I think that sounds fun (haven't played Mage Tower though admittably so not sure what exactly that entails), Bozja has some Critical Engagements where you solo a boss, and that's really cool...but you have to set it up (and Want buffs), and if you fail, have to go set up your chance & buffs again. It would be really fun to see some tailored to Job bosses as an optional thing.
It sounds really fun from a design perspective. How do you design a boss when you know only a ninja will fight it? What mechanics can you introduce that compliment the dragoon's move set? Is it a solo fight or a team of 4? How do you create an engaging fight for just white mages?
So much to think about!
Yes, Complete and Total RNG for getting your gear with a weekly cap is really great.
The housing thing I can understand, you shouldn't be able to buy a house and then disappear for 6 months... People want that limited space.
Back in cata, if I saw a hunter with 364k health, I knew they were full cataclysmic. I miss being able to glance at people and knowing exactly how geared they were.
Asmongold: "one percent of one percent"
Chat: "No"
Chat: "less than one percent"
Chat: "Not even one percent"
Chat is a partially sentient autocorrect with selective hearing.
This man opened the video chastising people for supposedly thinking that WoW and FF14 are the only 2 MMOs that exist, and then spent the rest of the video only referencing WoW and FF14 and comparing them, and coming to conclusions based on just them(and often false ones at that, but when you've never played those other games and only make assumptions based on these 2 what can you expect right?). I mean sure, that makes total sense....
Progression should be just skill based and not about how much time spent, with a few exceptions.
Me in WOW : Gave up at level 37
Me in Final Fantasy : I spent an entire day in Gold Saucer
Golden saucers so fun lol
I can almost smell the bias.
@@KumaNicol it’s not really about being biased ffxiv is just genuinely more fun than WoW atm for most people
@@shanebrodeur8641 I AGREE, for the record. But I am so sick of people who hate on WoW cause it's the new thing to do. Saying "I quit before getting anywhere near the part of the game widely considered fun" is such a bad argument.
I hate saying invalid, so I won't. But I do not really take people seriously when they sday that. You know what level 37 is in FF? some of the worst MMO combat I have played, along with very dull and boring dungeon mechanics. I would never judge a game by those standards though, and luckily just barely got through the ARR patchs tuff. HW is amazing, Stormblood is.. fine, ShB is probably my favorite video game story ever, and all of the gameplay got so much better.
In my opinion, WoW has this same arc, it starts slow, weak, and I get why people would quit, but hearing someone use their level 37 as an actual slight against the game is so strange to me. If I used that as a slight against FF, which I easily do, that early game is trash. The community has, and will continue to pretend my opinion is invalid, because they cannot accept any fault in their favorite game.
I know people will just assume I am malding, but I am more just.. tired. I am tired of people pretending FF is perfect, it isn't, far from it. Their gameplay is amazing, and yet still a bit stilted here and there, Story, while subjective, I believe was very basic and not very great until post ARR. The endgame gearing I am dealing with in PxS atm is also horrible. I just hate this communities concept that criticism is bad, it isn't, It's a great thing especially when the dev's of FF are so open and listening, unlike Blizz.
EDIT: forgot to add, thanks for being civil. I know my comment was a tad vague and blunt, but that was on purpose, cause so was the original comment.
I hate WoW. I always have and no matter how much I tried getting into it I just never couldnt. Ff14 on the other hand is probably the first game in the last few years I‘m excited about playing once I get home.
But I swear to god people who just cant let other enjoy what they want are the worst. Like why do you care sooo much. Nobody is forcing you to like WoW or FF14 so just shut up and play the game you like or play both at the same time. We are playing these games to entertain ourselves so stop destroying your own experience by debating on games you dont even play yourself.
Let the people that actually care about the game talk about issues they have with the game. You dont get anything from hating on it because you dont even gain something if it ever gets fixed.
I liked all the cross class stuff in ARR. Got me to try out other classes. Prepped more for the grind though leveling to 15 is easy.
Then casuals came in and ruined the game because they don't wanna work for anything. Now the game is worse off because of them
Wow the ffxiv community is just great. I went into this comment section to find the comment that pointed out the "uwu" nature of the thumbnail and upvote it because I'm a degenerate, but all I found was people talking with others about their experiences with when they started ffxiv, or comparing their experiences of WoW to ffxiv, or just talking about how much they love ffxiv and asmongold.
Kind of a beautiful thing to see really.
I don't even play a fraction of the games Chair makes videos about, but I still watch his videos because of his presentation :D
Came for the 10 min video, stay for the 23 min tangent rants love this
Played wow, rift, shaya, arch age, ff xiv,ff xi, been around since the very beginning of ff xiv and imo its the best lol. Imagine any other dev giving its original players a permanent discount on the subscription price, ur name in the credits, and a cool tattoo lol.
Yeah so most people playing FFXIV today probably would have quit prior to Stormblood if ARR still had in the 200+ quests they had prior.
I love Final fantasy XIV but sometimes I miss Azeroth and hope for the future that awaits
Hot take but ARR was a great game. They made you level other jobs to experience them as not many other games let you do everything on one character. It also gave you insight into how other jobs played so you were less hostile towards others based on false assumptions about the classes. Plus it was a hell of a lot of fun Fate zerging with 100+ people in a zone for hours on end. That said I can see how that is not sustainable going forward and it was good they nuked that style of leveling.
Mythic+, PvP, higher level raiding ... yeah, I don't want to do any of that thanks. I want to casually play through the story, play different specs, get some mods and some mounts. FFXIV has a ton to do while leveling. Unlike WoW where the devs are telling you to just boost cause the old content is shite. Just get 1000x XP and skip through all of the content just to grind the same dungeon or raid over and over.
I'm glad he finallly played XIV. For years people were telling him they have a lot of things you would like and he would meme the game.
I agree, I can play both. FF14 for story and raiding and GW2 the rest of the time.
Even during a video literally about playing whatever you want and letting others play whatever they want, chat cannot contain themselves and proceeds to shit on people for enjoying a certaint game.
Chats stupidity knows no bounds.
Reading chat on any on any stream is willingly hurting yourself for no reason. Dont pay attention to it, I never do, then again, im from the pre twitch generation. I only watch Asmongold through youtube and watch no livestreams
Same happening in the comments of this vid it seems. :(
@@an3582 Same here
Tbh, i loved the old roleskill system. It made u try out other classes at least a little bit instead of just leaving them there untouched forever. Knowing what the others did on at least a basic level made u a better player too
It was hampered by how annoying leveling was, and how ubiquitous some of the required skills were.
If it was more so for some ribbon skills that could be chosen based off personal preference, then I would like it.
in wow it took me 1,5 year to decide to change my main, after finally getting max lvl played it for half h and abandoned it. mained same class for 5 years
imagine playing same job for 5 years, i still had fun but leveling/gearing/unlocking content on many classes is very time consuming
"made you" is the problem.
I level a class because I want to, not because I have to.
There is nothing wrong with this, the devs know it, it's become the entire design philosophy of every piece of content in the game and it's precisely the reason it has become such a big success.
I did actually play and quit ARR, and forced levelling of another class was a primary reason, nothing infuriates me more than being forced to spend a lot of time on something I don't want to.
The removal of that system takes nothing away from you, you want to level something else to 30? Go ahead, congrats now you can do the same thing *and* people like me don't want to quit, win win.
You know what happens when the game doesn't force me to level other jobs?
I level every job to cap, when I feel like it, because I feel like it.
Other MMO devs need to stop complicating things, if game fun, people buy game, done, finished, end of fuckin story.
Idk if this could compare but destiny has it where all gear drops at max light level and in different multiplayer modes the light level either matter or doesn’t depending on the mode
The biggest takeaway for me. He’s been making the drk anima and the war zodiac weapon off stream apparently. The man likes to grind.
FF vs WoW, PlayStation vs Xbox, AMD vs Nvidia, republican vs democrat, Trump vs Biden, Celtics vs Lakers…. You never stopped being a loser, I just grew older
I have wondered this about WoW. You guys have all these relics and levels you have to build up to be optimal in the current raid which can stretch back to older content. Do they ever nerf or buff that old content? Like a crafting mat or resource had like… 15% drop rate but it’s 4 year old content now so they buffed the rate to 40% and/or have it drop multiple of the item to cut down time. Also being optimal sounds mandatory when people talk about it. Is there not a minimum level? Or is that what people mean by optimal or is it some point of contention with players so odds are you get kicked or something? Just curious and you don’t hear too much about that side of WoWs endgame woes.
regarding drop rates, it is actually the opposite: Raid Mounts from the final bosses in WoW are 100% when it is current content and gets reduced when it becomes old content.
@@sasskee reduced to 1% chance and you can try only once a week per character
Content from the last expac gets largely abandoned as soon the new expac is released. There are cases of difficulty buffs in drop rates, like To Go said. Yes optimization is mandatory in wow. There are minimum entry levels but are ignored by the majority of Pug teams and guilds. The majority of pug teams chose a new memeber by using an addon that evaluate the amount of success in pve one player has achieved, if your rating is too low, getting into groups will become harder, even for minimum difficulty content. Then, your gear and build is evaluated, if your build or even your class is not meta, you out. There are pug groups and guilds that ignore this, thankfully (but imho they are a minority). Basically, if you try to enter in an end game piece of content even like, pre normal-raid difficulties the minimum, with the minimum possibile on your character you are considered like someone that has no respect of other's time and deserve to be kicked or ignored until you gear up in other ways. Other ways like Daily quests and solo q content that requires only max level and nothing else, tailored exacly for new players that have reached max level (Random PVP Battlegrounds and Heroic dungeons), but i can guarantee that your chat is not going to be cheerful about your presence, speaking about the Random PVP Battlegrounds. I have been a raid leader and guild leader in the past and in other mmos, so i quite enjoy optimization, but some people find the matter problematic in wow, imho for good reasons. But is a matter of harsh discussion even between wow players. Some will say what i said, others say that our side invented everything and if you join a guild quick, organize your own run for mythic dungeons and "git gud" you will be fine.
You have to work daily on your character in wow, if you want to do end game content. There is no "you are burned out, play something else and return later" in wow. If you leave during a patch and return in the middle of the following patch, you are screwed and you'll have to farm back everything and study the charts about the meta of your class because probably even your dps rotation has changed.
@@nekrell5711 *Content from the last patch gets largely abandoned as soon the new patch is released.
@@mcdick1621 it gets abandoned, but does it matter past cosmetic purposes? Do older players have an advantage?
For Solo content: Blue mage is pretty challenging, as it enables you to solo run dungeon synched. Other than that, unsynched solo Extremes can be pretty fun.
Oh yeah. 2.0 definitely had some stupid ass systems in it. Glad a lot of it is gone.
I hope you start playing FF14 Again soon
Lmao
@@intensellylit4100lmao
lmao
WOTLK was peak WoW in every aspect. I have no idea how we got to where we are… I could run randoms ALL DAY. I could BG ALL DAY, Quest all day… grind professions… now everything feels like a chore or just empty
FF is essentially WoW but Devs listen to player feedback( from WoW forums lol).
They used to have a resource called Tactical Points (TP) It was a yellow bar, always capped at 1000, recovered more quickly than MP, percentagewise, as MP went quite high.
TP was a resource used by physical classes, Area of Effect abilities had an increased cost.
This ended up making a large skill gap, as TP management was a skill that some people couldn't grasp.
Nobody shed a tear at the removal of TP.
Guild Wars 2 phase? 😉
Finished ARR MSQ getting ready to start the Heavensward MSQ. But I thought I'd get the Trials mount and a relic weapon before I started it.
Party finder was iffy since I was only level 50 so I went through duty finder till I found a group grinding mounts.
The relic weapon grind is a bit of a bitch (and yes I know the Eureka weapons are worse). I'm on the books too, just need four more.
Damn nice!
I recommend doing the Anima (HW) weapons once you are at lvl 80ish. Aside from the Poetics you need for each step you can just solo roflstomp all required content (dungeons and trials). By far the easiest and probably coolest looking relic weapons to get.
@@Redemptionn310 thanks. Been a lot of fun
@@BaithNa that's kind of what I did. I kept running Trials with a lot of familiar faces. Two of em were 70 so they messaged me and we all got in PF and had a 90. Only took an hour or two but I was committed to the Zodiac weapons I was running while waiting to match by then lmao
@@randalica92 I started playing FF14 when Destiny's yearly expansion got stale. My Summoner job boosted to almost 60 already working on the Zodiac weapon. But I'll definitely be back, but it'll be a while before I hit 80. I'm contemplating switching full time to FF14 though so it may not be that long.
I appreciate the advice. Some of the books for the Zodiac require low level dungeons and OMG is it easy to solo unsynched lmao
"Just play both games at the same time"
Dude, I've got a fucking job.
I prefer 1 MMO at a time. So it's FFXIV and whatever single player game in my library.
Let me clarify that i think asmon is a great and very intellectual human.. but he does not see the pov of someone who has a to really grind a game and invite/find good players to do hard content with. A lot of times hes got a 9 stack ready to go with for him in any game. Not that they are carrying him, he carries his own wait. But none of his teamates r fucks up. Sometimes in wow raids he gets a goober but they usually replace them super fast with someone with a crazy high ilvl. All im saying is that not everyone can play these games as fast paced as he can nd get thru the content the same way he does
That's why people just pay others to boost them in raids. Duh
Dude Nier automata is incredible!
30:35 you got blue mage for that
My friend Cody is one of the top destiny players of all time. Inu Fallen is his official handle. In the game with over a million daily players, he is consistently one of the first 50 teams to clear savage raids and other extreme content that come out.
I remember there was a raid that he was so early in clearing, that the administrators and marketing department for destiny sent him and his team very expensive leather jackets with customized gaming logos.
FF14 cut out everything that waste the player's time so the players can spend more of their time in the gold saucer. Every 5 minutes of your life running to your dead body could've been wasted in Chocobo racing or RPing in a degenerate den.
Except for the tedious MSQ of talk to NPC for more unnecessary filler.
"I'm fine with the grind, but do not make people do it twice" omfg so true. Almost came in my pants imagining that was the case in every mmo I ever played. At least triple xp for alts etc...or alts boosted to where your main is.
Regarding the grind stuff, I think that's part of why I actually stuck with the Shadowbringers relic weapon grind. I started it because I liked Bozja's zone a ton. Then, after I got through the relatively short first grind, I actually enjoyed farming DR (weird, I know lmao). And then there were the two massive grinds, but those were *one time only*. I was getting three relic weapons at the same time and the worst grinds were the ones I only had to do once, not three times and that made it a lot more manageable and rewarding.
I played the game when it came out too and i loved it. So saying that playing it when it came out somehow makes it terrible is kind of invalid in my view. Now with that being said i will say that to each their own and if someone isn't into mmo's thats fine, but don't take your personal experience and present it as everyones opinion. That's honestly all i care about here. I won't say it was better than it is now, but i have almost 3 thousand subbed days now and ive put in almost 1 thousand days of actual logged in played time (very very little of that being afk) and i feel like i have the right to say that MY opinion is that the whole "oh man arr used to be absolute shit" is bloated way too much. It wasn't as bad as i feel people make it out to be. I had a lot of fun and i know many others who also did.
I liked ARR a lot. I think it's just cuz HW was incredible why ppl shit on ARR