Late 14th/Early 15th Century Timurid -Persian armor.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- Sources
Helmet w/Eyebrow motiffs: Hermitage Museum. Late 14-Early 15th Century. Northwestern Iran
Lamellar: Fatih Album. Early 15th century, Shiraz. Topkapi Museum
Bazubands: Shahnameh. 1390. British Museum
Saqbands: Shahnameh. 1390. British Museum
#islamichistory #persian #iran #persianarmor
#lamellaramor
Beautiful armor. Especially the lamellar!
Good to see different historical arms and armor instead of the usual parade of european and east asian stuff. Hope you post more stuff on Iranian arms and armor
Finally, someone actually commenting where the origin of some "mongol/turkic" armor is from, wich is actually persian and other iranic peoples of the late anqiquity/middle ages.
Thank you , Not to mention Iranic People continued to use them While in the service of of those people.
@@baytal-asad Exactly, persian nobility fought side by side with the Mongols/Turkic elites. I have to admit, I imagine the persians/iranian being much better at close combat, given the persian tradition of using heavy armor, the mace, and just the fact that white people are larger than the Asian Yurkic warriors, who epecialized in mounted archery.
@@user-zs2vt5yw3d most of the Timurid Iranian conscripts were heavily armored because of that very traditional.
Granted, when you look at Sassanid Cataphracts who were heavily armored they too did shoot bows , however by this time Turko-Mongol horse archers won out because of thier favoritism by Timur
Turco Mongols wore armor before Iranian influence too
@@RandomGuy-df1oy absolutely, never said they didn't, but I'm commenting on how Iranian armor gets attributed to other cultures more than the other way around.
I am so happy I found your channel. Ive found with places like Iran and China their medieval weapons and armor almost always get overshadowed by Europe. I would love to see more!
The eyebrows do have a function, they would deflect arrows and arrow splinters hitting the top of the helmet, that would otherwise travel down into the eye holes...
Very well possible.
Checkout Tod's workshop, he does experiments with archery and armour...
Super cool. Thanks for the upload
i started with medieval metallurgy and medieval armors to come up with something that can be used in modern age and i think the designs are all valid to certain points armor simply is still valid as it was in ancient times even
Hello my friend! Really great work of constructing armour and weapons for Timurud / Iranian era! 👍
What about the spear point? So broad , I think nearly 10 cm wide? Do you find it through out archaeological finds or museum collection for exactly that time?
On average from around the Iranic world many museum examples have such a broad bladed head. This signifies the weapons cutting as well as thrusting abilities.
I have a question: you mentioned that chainmail lined the inside of the Kazaghand? How much does it align (does it cover the whole thing or only inside the chest area or what)?
From what I am aware, it could vary, however the most common I am accustomed to have chain sewn into upper arms, torso And upper legs
@@baytal-asad I see. Thank you!!!
The helmet, in particular the eyebrows, looked very similar to Early Medieval Viking/Anglo Saxon helmets - for example the Sutton Hoo helmet.
The Anglo Saxons did like their eyebrows!
Form follows function and all that.
I noticed that too. I guess they helped deflect downward cuts away from the eye slits.
It is because Europeans imitated the Parthian and Sasanian cataphract armor
Nice armor :)) !!! Greting from Krakow - capitol polish sabre .... szablotłuk polski
What’s the weight of all the armor (helmet incl.) combined?
Heavy cavalry is a truly central asian military concept.
Do you plan to make some videos of the post safavid age? Like the one of Nader Shah? I ain't complaining, Safavid is the coolest era of islamic iranian military histort in my opinion. Great channel and tnks for the videos! Cheers from Brazil
Iran is the name of land coming from Arian as everybody knows. This name has given to that place by ancient Greeks according to their so-known mithologia. The people living on these lands named as arians or iranians by westcentric approach. The origin people did never called theirselves as Iranians. The term Pers or Persian is another subject. Sahipkiran Timur was Turkic, but because of his eras political needs, by his queen, he had to join himself to Chengiz Kaan's bloodline, who is also known as Turkic-Mongol. Even if you ask todays Mongolian living in Mongolia, they would say what I am saying. Why it is important? What would change whether Sahipkiran Emr Timur's ethnicity? Even in this channel it is called a part with a ethnicity Pers, in the other hand the other with his name Timur, just to hide the frightened reality. Timur was a Turkic figure. Another thing is from 11th century to 18th century the ruller class and at least 1/3 people of the today's Iran were talking in the exact Turkish which was the mother tongue of Ottoman Turks and Turkistan Turks ( todays Turmenistan, Ouzbekistan and Azerbiajan). Still there are 30 million Iran citizens living in todays Iran has Turkish-Oughuz tongue. When it comes to 14-15th centuries armores. First the channel had to write it as Persian-Turkic or Timurid - that era's shah's name. This is an open discrimination against the most warrior people of Turkistan steppes. When it comes to armors, both heavy and light armores of 14th century used by Turkic-Mongolian forces. Because as of 11th century to 15th century the 6 crusade waves have been stopped by Seljuk and Ottomans whom were also Turkic. The steel and black smith art has known as Oughuz-Kipchak arts in Asia, whom were the two biggest branches of (western-eastern) Turkic people. Persia or Iran is the name of place, it is not meaning all people lived on this place were today's Farsi's ancestors. Safevids for instance were not talking Persian, and since the Memluks to the end of Safavids in middle east the army and high bourocracy language has always been Oughuz or Kunman-Kipchak Turkish language families. From Chinese wall to Hungary.
I was actually at that fair! And we had that long conversation about your kit and north African nations
iam an armor inventor now one can say since i invented the passive electro static armor plate for modern steel penetrator ammo and also for older fmj but i still love old armor and i just come up with things the product itself has nothing to do with me
Kinda sad about all the bickering over what is Iranian or Mongol or Turkic in the comments and in the video also. Truth is neighbors always influence each other, influence is rarely ever one-way. It's flows both ways. Iran-Central Asia-China constantly adopted each others innovations in all directions. Same with Eastern and Western Europeans. They were influenced by the Middle East, but they influenced the Middle East in as well.
Anyway, I'm curious about the Lamellar Jawshan in the video. I was under the impression that this kind of armor fell out of favor a lot sooner than the late 1300s because despite providing great protection, it was difficult to maintain. By this time the Europeans were already using full plate and as far as I know the powers in the Middle East started using plated mail.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you, I agree that it's sad when people can't accept cultural origins of pieces and allow their pan nationalism to erase what years of archeological and Historical research has proven.
I have labeled this as *Timurid - Perisan (or Iranian) as I have chosen to interpret what an Iranian warrior serving Timur could have looked like.
I have never denied that cross cultural influence hasnt had thier way both ways, but this is interpreted from an Iranian position and not Turkish.
It is the erasure of the Iranian aspects of arms and armor and the people who served Thr Timurids during this time that is academically dishonest.
The fact remains, native Iranians retained aspect of cultural identity through arms and armor throughout the times when they were ruled by others. Just because Turko- Mongols ruled Iranians doesn't mean Iranian material culture is suddenly theirs.
Claiming a helmet with Eyebrowm motiffs , found in a region (north west Iran) that was largely isolated from centralized control is of Turko- Mongols is sudden " Turkish ' is as about as obscene as saying the Mambele is a Dutch weapon because they controlled that part of Africa.
And no Lamellar did not fall out of favor until the mid 15th century where it was phased out by Mail and plate. Countless miniature paintings dated from the end of the 14th century still show Lamellar in use.
Thank you for your questions
Could you please tell us where to buy/order our own armors? It's really hard for me to find middle eastern/central asian armors compared to european and east asian ones. Thanks!
We would be glad to assist. If you would like to email baytalasad22@gmail.com, we can supply you with trusted armorers as well as primary sources to help guide you
Additionally we can provide professional consultation to build a kit. There are many unique and diverse cultures that lived in the middle east and we can help be sure your kit is not a stereotype or generic representation of armor from region you chose.
@@baytal-asad thanks, will e-mail you soon
Can you do a video about parthian and sassanid armor?
Sassanid is on my list for sure
of course i couldnt hide anything in the past and iam carrying it around for to long to care now because its already out there so the armor will change into layered armor in near future which means our tradition sort of still stands because my armor plating is very layered
Were y'all at the NH Ren Faire?
Yes indeed!
@@baytal-asad I knew I recognized the background. Just went today too. Hope to see you at the Vermont or Maine one!
Huh, what's the advantage to having the mail under the gambeson instead of over top of it? I mean I haven't thought about this much but it seems like it might dig into the skin uncomfortably, especially when hit?
It's sewn in-between layers of quilting. Sorry if that was not clear
@@baytal-asad OOOH that makes so much more sense! I mean, I've worn chainmail over thin cloth when it's hot, but it can still dig in if you are hit. But sandwiched between padding is totally different.
can you give armor details in abbasid period
nice
So did the Iranian cavalry under Timur wear armour in this manner? Did the Iranians fight as cavalrymen in significant numbers under the Timurids or were they mainly infantrymen?
Very good question! Please give me a minute to give you a thorough reply
Essentially, depending on the campaign or engagement they served as both.
Timur prefered his central asian horse archers to any other form of cavalry but that didt not omit the use of Iranian heavy calvary when needed .
But during other engagements such as the Battle of Anakra , Timur employed many heavily armored infanty to counter the Vasallized Serbian Knights and Sepahis use by Beyzazid.
Gear for each my vary but both Iranian infantry and cavalry were heavily armored. Timurid era paintings from Isfahan the from 1390s show both footsoldiers and cavalry wearing similar armaments.
@@baytal-asad What source's are there regarding the ethnic composition of Timur's armies, as well as the way in which they fought. Is there any good books or something regarding that sort of topic?
This was my first starting point , then I followed the work cited in this book for other information
www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-att-us-rvc3&sca_esv=c049acb6f0d1f7df&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJVbniTfFhKxyiZLxudPkKQGMXXcw:1716210526695&q=the+age+of+tamerlane&si=ACC90nxka2Fvqm8pF4Tj4sQ1t1xO-n5mL9EQvXIYzLfHrbD7tIq1s331WYXRg7A2dFZ5w0-CueVL3L6-znoCfEPxlwe5xVew7Pczz5e7vFrXFAGf3y2cxsxqZUSXXhq-ydYwhnl9WYOw&uds=ADvngMjX9Nw0Knqf4QQ3FLaIN5swWkwqOqwhH13ovPapInN8Ye7zqyDspjIuhVb6AChWZHVY6ZSgt38V2gZNFwmVQj1bdnHIGp-IDjeCQDoRD4GH4hnuUmSamtkVmAtgUuvbchlWem733kMotDFV_3Iteq9hDIvrOo6pedbkqqhEKcSid0zH5bjdn6NkOIodyhwgEIFLWpS62__kSXjxqrweeopGlHQl5AbGg_wVhgNt7ZwB-Dz4DW7U-eu8Ul0MJdXYlhXynbuGJN-DxtI-xQmHFHxnWh0RR8rWlfL_lTmq-2YHxxwfmSk94IRh6gu2IR_HPZC4yhzNxVaEn2TXN2AKmv29rOXHq2t_v3BWkHhr-RUTBNsfwLd_9ND7X4k0hkNmeabnqqClhMrXOQh19-XlVxzUyP-2X_1nk9IJN2BWb8Szf3V4ANoDexflLr5rajifEyUQHPBnlXGewT59fFiqLWi9ceF_ubYhavcbSa80vcIIlSuHYkQs0IfPOXVJXXPOBptfSwLf4EuEN_iWMg6AgJ2ANbhTWo6Vy761-Ol7ewV-llqMbDfA8fazhVKU19RnpqDF1vUXUFkrU4iwIGK1jjo6ndkNSC8vezkXWGLgcw226FfXv-Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilq7a2ppyGAxV-jYkEHYlSBxEQk8gLegQIERAD&ictx=1&biw=360&bih=649&dpr=3
@@baytal-asad Thank you very much
lamellar is a silkroad product anyway the product was going all the way to china and the technology aswell
Yes! So many cultures used it. But what I'm addressing is the notion that somehow the Mongols introduced it to Iran.
@@baytal-asad who invented the oven to melt down the metal to steel step by step iam not sure if you can point as mongols of origin of such things
@@baytal-asad when you create a high quality trade route with high quality wares as the silkroad was than mongols are just the high quality bandits you will find forming hahaha sad but true its a culture yes but it was pirates of the roads
@@baytal-asad you can find great examples btw how banditry became nationhood and culture in many forms of civilization of course just look at germany
@@baytal-asad the famous "raubritter" has become the european high quality pirate
one hit one target one hit one kill
its open source i guess so i tell you some of the recipe not the densities not the composition of the cake all together because its not mine to give
layers are as following
outer layers
packaging:nylon
casing:carbonfibre:
connecting hull and skeleton:glasfibre
metal plating: 1st plate copper 2nd plate aluminium 3rd plate titanium
and again back side hull case and packaging
any kevlar added is carrier based
have your fun testing around i guess
basically create some form and layer them after another into it with the idea that the carbon fiber is just a case and the real hull and plate inside are the 3 metal plates welded on eachother starting with frontplate copper
its an armor for mass production by people not by government
it should be highest class for its weight class atleast
composite doesnt stand a chance for sure
u can't be cooler than that
Very halal armor!
my question is how they could bear that armor in the great iranian heat
Very little of Modern Iran Is actually extremely hot. It's a very temperate climate
the only turkic empires who wear real turkic heavy armor was celestial turks and oghuz yabgu state right after the deah of the last khan of celestial turk khaganate tong yabgu.
Great reconstrutcion !
have more reach better precision and better armor and you win the duel
Timurids were Turko-Mongol.
its good but its not a commanders armor
Bazu- hands, hand- closed
Why is it called "Persian" armor if the Persians no longer existed from antiquity ?
Please friend. Read your comment, figure out what you meant, make it make sense, then explain it to the rest of us.
@@kilgoresandtrout stop trying to sound smart ass ! Didn't the persians cease to exist after antiquity... ? Err you know that specific period in time called antiquity don't you ? From 3000 BC to 476 AD ? So if those were the people called persians living in the Antiquity period... the ones Alexander the great fought and conquered and this is a reproduction of a 14th to Early 15th century armor then why is it called "Persian" armor ? The persian people ceased to exist long before those centuries and their descendents evolved into other people so why is it called "Persian"
That's what the FUCK I MEAN...
Now if you don't understand my question the way I put it the first time at least don't be rude or sarcsstic about it cause you don't know what the FUCK i meant or didn't mean.
And I don't owe any explanation to you... My question ( the one in my first comment ) was directed to the author of this video so you can just go on your diddly day minding your own diddly bussiness "friend"
@@alinvid6098”Persian” doesn’t just refer to the classical era Persian Empire. In this case the video title tells you the era being discussed. “Persian” refers to Persian cultural features and linguistic connections in a fairly broad region. The ethnicity of the Iranian is people is Persian, regardless of their religion. Therefore, armors developed in the region, and are common in the Persian linguistic, cultural, and political sphere of direct influence, are Persian.
Relax.
Because it extended past antiquity…. Like we refer to the areas by the ruling dynasty, kingdoms, etc. but it’s still Persia. The same for anywhere else in the world. If not that would make the Russo-Persian Wars of the 19th century really awkward
"Persia" was in use, frequently, up until after WWII. If you look at most museum exhibits, PERSIAN arms and armor are listed as Persian. When you read articles on historical matters in the region, they'll refer to Persians. The Abbasid Caliphate, for example, saw the spread of PERSIAN influences in the culture and fashion at the time.
you see how we win everytime we get involved ourselves these days?
you see what happened in ukraine with the drones and with the precision play compared to russias usual very wasteful ammo dumping tradition
btw friend i prefer scale armor it also isnt as unusual the scales i mean basically what was combined with what is called in german (iam more german speaking than english) "brustharnisch" it was mostly a round plate on the center of the body decorated with scales that was basically a cheap militia armor a cheap archers armor but yes as said armies had more unified design always compared to militias which archers got traditionally in most armies levied from militia anyway sticks are as valid as scales the one you beat and scale up the one you beat and round up its still the same thing i remember you like egyptian tradition so you get the point the form doesnt matter really as much the purpose matters and if you follow that aim you adapt the form naturally to your purpose
you can very much adapt your knowledge of armor for modern armors you just have to adapt the way of thinking so yes even the thing you want to do for example lets do copper tube aluminium tube inserted and titanium core break the bullet and catch its fragments why not chain armor used today in kevlar it can work if you do it right i think there is not even an argument about it yes it should be a working thing for non penetrator bullets for sure
ahh friend i think you dont need this channel for your wealth income you can do it the way i told you in fact this channel is your diary my diary is the most powerful persons postal address i guess from my country yours is the wide world it comes to the same thing in our worlds in the end we seek to register truths step by step
your truth is registered yours and your busy friends the iranian friend who is from my nation my family therefore it doesnt matter if it is seen by a million or by 1 the 1 makes a 11 and the 11 makes it 11 11 right since we are two and knowledge passes and truth is told
you will do just fine there in your america which is busy with war
i like armor what about you
you think you can fire at an armor designed by yourself and basically copycat design from a medieval armor or even one of antiquity just using the most modern materials methods etc pp if you think so why not create one and send it to the gun hungry guys on youtube for a testing the demoballistic hands and whatever
taking a ww2 weapon and modernizing it is as valid as taking old armor designs and modernizing them all you need to recalculate is that the impact is small and with high velocity and with extreme penetration power and that you have shrapnel
ua-cam.com/video/Vx0sg1xg7is/v-deo.html
you would need to work very long time on rethinking
i mean if you wanted to catch a bullet with such armor traditions
rethinking is conceptual its even above intellectual workings and simple cognitive structure either way the one who does it he does it and its very simple in that sense be so it will be right iam so it is