Real Medieval Fire Arrows! (Sorry Hollywood)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
- Medieval fire arrows were real! So I followed the old books, made some and tested them in every way I could think of.
We have loads of old manuscripts, pictures, drawings, fire arrow heads and recipes of fire arrows but because some people haven't looked at the old information and can't make them work, lots of people think they were a myth. You see them everywhere in films and computer games so it is easy to dismiss them as a modern popular culture affectation - they were as real as you are.
So this film is an exhaustive description of what they were and how they made them work, woven through with a series of tests and demonstrations and showing the sources.
If you want to know about fire arrows this is the film for you.
00:00 Intro and highlights
00:38 Burn Duration Demonstration
02:05 Safety Warning
02:35 Hollywood loves fire on a stick!
04:12 The evidence and archaeological record
05:39 Construction of fire arrows
07:58 Lighting and shooting process
09:00 Close up burn
09:56 Distance test
10:34 Shooting a target
11:00 Shooting in a field battle?
11:51 Tod Cutler advert. Lots of shiny things for sale
12:20 How do Fire Arrows work? - Slo mo
13:14 The Alchemy of Fire Arrows
14:55 Stirling castle - Trebuchet!
16:09 Medieval manuscript evidence
17:58 Getting hit in the face by a flaming arrow?
18:57 Noxious Smoke!
20:07 Medieval Chemical weapons?
22:07 Scenario - Arrow into window
22:36 Scenario - Thick Oak palisade
23:43 Scenario - Pitched building or ship
24:50 Scenario - Hay store or Thatch
25:51 Don't underestimate the smoke
26:21 Conclusion
For budget medieval weaponry of fantastic accuracy and value todcutler.com
For commissions and custom work todsworkshop.com
For merch todsworkshop.creator-spring.com
For those who enjoyed Arrows vs Armour todtodeschini.com
Target posters are here todcutler.com/collections/tod...
We have a Patreon page and if you liked this and wish to support the channel please consider having a look at that / todsworkshop
Arrow heads by www.medievalarrows.co.uk
Longbow by Joe Gibbs / hillbillybows
Italian yew bow by the late Chris Boyton
Books referenced
European arrowheads and crossbow bolts C.Rau
Gunpowder technology in the fifteenth century (translation of the book of the firework)
Axel E.W. Muller
The Pirotechnica of Vannoccio Biringuccio (translation)
Cyril Stanley Smith and Martha Teach Gnudi
Weapons of Warre The Mary Rose Trust
i went from thinking fire arrows were real to them having been debunked to now them being real again? wild ride
There is an older video which shows a recipe.
Yeah, that's where im at too. I remember hearing that they were bs
@@hergyk6b Definitely not BS!
I thinks is always been more of a question of "how they were used?" instead of "were they real?"
Fire arrows are often used in popular media as anti-personnel weapons, like something to add extra terror to the murderstick already flying at you. On film it looks cool to see a primitive incendiary weapon, and in video games it often adds a fire damage buff.
We KNOW these were used against wooden or otherwise flammable targets, like ships and buildings, but there's no reason to light your projectile if its purpose is to hit another person hard and fast; depending how much/what kind of armour they may be wearing the arrow may pass through them entirely, and if it's alight it's more likely to extinguish during flight without a head designed to hold flammable material, instead of one made for penetrating mail and flesh.
People tried to debunk the silly version and caught the real one in the crossfire.
Those fire arrows look tastier than they should.
Do any of the recipes have ingredients including bacon?
it's the forbidden bacon-wrapped sausage
or a _really_ spicy one
@crazypetec-130fe7 Bacon grease is very flammable, so actually yes.
RIGHT
Bacon wrapped!!
I think the lesson of 90% of Todd’s videos is “medieval people weren’t stupid”, and this is another great example.
Absolutely. I think many people forget that genetically, there was really little to no difference between these people and us today. sure, our collective knowledge base is far vaster, and availability to access and share information is so much easier. but that is a hard won prize that has taken many generations to figure out. Im sure many weaponsmiths and alchemists lost plenty of fingers figuring this particular branch out. but they were able to tell their apprentices, hey, that was dumb, dont do that. or wow, that worked great! My grandfather was an excellent mechanic, could make about anything with a piston do his bidding. but had NO idea how electricity worked, except batterys ran flat and not to put your finger in a lightbulb socket. via magazines and being able to order books from the library, and alot of tinkering as a kid, have had a pretty successful electronic engineering career. we're some clever monkeys, and always interested in exploring and learning. I still struggle to start a lawnmower (electric FTW)... but he was so proud of me when I built my first radio set. you get good with the tech you have available to work with. how many of you can start a fire with sticks, or hit a rabbit with a sling? (Ok, probably more here than the general population, but you get my point)
"I think 100%" I wish "I knew" what they forgot or was was lost to history! they wasted nothing, "I was cheap", now I am "green". They watched everything in nature, used what they watched, everything had a job or purpose.
I tell my kids they built the pyramids one rock at a time, get to work, now WE will have a Dr and Lawyer, and another grad party. YEE HAWW!
GOD BLESS!
Most people who study the medieval period think this way! Dr. Eleanor Janega does it too on her blog, books, and podcast(s)
You have smart and dumb people now.
Wasnt any different back then i gues.
@ruuddriessen8547 yea, but somehow a majority of normies think midevil people were uniquely foolish and superstitious.
In the movie "the king" which details king henry the fifths invasion of France at the siege of Harfleur the movie depicts them using trebuchets, when in reality cannons were used. The reason this was done was audiences would perceive cannons in a medieval setting as absurd. Modern people really underestimate what historic people were capable of.
Heck, the medieval era ended exactly because the Ottomans used gunpowder cannons to hammer the crud out of Constantinople's defensive walls until they broke down. Which means they definitely existed before then if they were used successfully in such a large scale.
Our capacity of killing each other and destroying what other built has been strong all over the ages.
From a scientific perspective, we landed on the moon and invented nuclear fission about a century before we feasibly should have. Heck, steel is nearly 8,000 years old, although the only known items that old seem to be jewelry for some reason, not tools. (Maybe because the tools got used till destruction?)
Humanity is amazing and always has been.
@@Ranstone- Iron is difficult to work with the tools available 8K years ago. That made it special and thus suitable for jewelry.
@@Ranstone "landed on the moon and invented nuclear fission about a century before we feasibly should have" Fucking Lol. According to who, and what? What supposed authority deemed this the case?
I've seen so many modern videos saying how rubbish fire arrows are. I'm glad you're correcting the record.
I can only think it was people who didn't read the books - there are a surprising amount of books and manuscripts when you go looking
Kevin Hicks actually did do something that seems somewhat similar, I don't think his arrows were made of the same stuff but he did demonstrate that they could flare up and would also drip & splatter burning liquid all over the place.
i was just going to say the same thing. i'm sure i watched a video recently saying that they didnt really exist.i'm glad tod is here to set the record straight
@@tods_workshop I remember Lindybeige's video being particularly perplexing
In their defense I doubt many of them were referring to fire arrows after the spread of gunpowder. At least the ones I seen typically are referring to the earlier methods and discounting their ability and usefulness in open battle, and typically do give citations of them being used earlier against static structures. Honestly this video is covering mostly things that most people wouldn't even include within the medieval period, and talking about the developments of incendiaries in the 16nth century seems kinda irrelevant when referring to the medieval period and potentially misleading.
I already know this video will be a Tod's Workshop classic
Thanks - it was a bundle of work for sure, so I hope so
@@tods_workshop It shows, and it turned out great. Nice work
It's hard to top the video where he does a drive-by with a small crossbow while riding a mobility scooter
i come by every few months and I'm astounded at how his content keeps getting better
This is one of your best videos yet.
The production quality has gotten so damn good.
Quality information, to the point, no fuss, various experiments, direct references to contemporary literature.
Despite being a fraction of the budget, this is so much better than anything about medieval times on modern Television.
Thank you, that's very kind. I have the luxury of putting in the content I want rather than what the marketing department needs
@@tods_workshop Thank YOU! It's so rare to see someone who actually knows what he's talking about AND is genuinely interested in historical accuracy.
I like the over-the-shoulder shots of your archery.
Have you considered using a GoPro mount to capture YOUR point of view?
It would be the closest that viewers could get to seeing what an actual archer would have seen when aiming down range.
If you choose a mount that is not intrusive to your aim, this would elevate the production quality even more without costing you much (assuming you already have two GoPros).
1?...
.
AL
L PIP😮
"Films are short of time, they need to say their stories quickly and the short hands and the conventions of film is a language all to itself" thats a great line that not only shows the understanding but also respect to the language of cinema and the restrictions that films have to work with. Something that often gets overlooked when criticising films from a historical context. Fantastic video
Thank you
@@tods_workshop yes - that section of the script was extremely well written and got the point across quite well. Doesn't excuse Netflix's Alexander the Great costumes and weapons but it does explain the rule of cool pretty well.
ua-cam.com/video/M_ldkfPRB1s/v-deo.htmlsi=-q4vYf-gbsHBhx1Z
@@jonevansauthor Its why they have Fire Arrows in Top Gun
In a text on Asian fire arrows, they commented that the arsenic compounds in the incendiary mixture made burns harder to heal.
I did wonder that very thing and that was my first thought, but the bio chemist thought not
Regardless of their specific purpose, it's easy to see the underlying reason was chemical warfare and inflicting greater human harm.
@@tods_workshop Arsenic compunds also stink, so it might be a kind of psychologiocal weapon, I mean the people might be accustomed to burning, maybe even burning Saltpeter, but this combination with the Arsenic would be ghastly.
Poisoning is slow, a few days, so in a siege something that could work, still needs around 1g/man to be deadly. I am not sure you can add enough Arsenic to the charge to be deadly, but even if it's not a deadly dose it would be very, very unpleasant for the inhabitants and degrade morale.
The wounds not healing is a definate possibility, there are many papers linking even low Arsenic concentrations to slower healing, even hightened susceptibility to infection.
Arsenic compounds have been used in chemical weapons to create "vomiting agents"
I’ll have to try out some of their formulation, I’ve been doing some arsenic pigment chemistry recently and have some commercial paris green on the way as well as the stuff I’ve made.
When you watch a video and go "Cool, but what about-" and then immediately have your question answered - at least three times - you know it's a great video. Well done, sir!
It feels great too
TBH I feel like part of the reason fire arrows end up misrepresented is that essentially all early gunpowder technology is. Often technology in popular media (be it movies, games, or anything in between) jumps directly from "no gunpowder whatsoever" to "18th-century muskets", which means the transition and all the early uses of gunpowder are woefully underused.
Yeah, it seems like fire arrows without gunpowder would be pretty anemic.
I had exactly the same thought, in a strange way this enforces the image of "primitive middle ages", where in the common narrative the arrival of mystical gunpowder is a thing that ends it - not that the introduction AND development of gunpowder weaponry is actually a very medieval thing. From second half of 13th century to be exact. There is still a lot of "medieval time" to pass, but they are just unaware. Also, as an aside, it might just be to difficult to reproduce some of the more "odd" siege weapons from that period, if you are a bit short on research and tools for the job.
@@Dodovacer- The same audiences who have no trouble with inaccurate armor and weaponry would hoot with derision at historically accurate, but 'odd', siege weapons.
@@adambielen8996 In the video it was allured to that the components were used before gun powder was invented.
Charcoal and oxidizer mixed like this is probably easier to make and handle than gunpowder, while gunpowder packs much more of a punch.
@@julietfischer5056 nope the audience would have no issue with it, just an issue of hollywood being lazy
Damn. I got suckered in to thinking that fire arrows were just bad and never actually used because I only though of Hollywood fire arrows. As soon as I saw that thing light up I was like 'Oh THATS how they're supposed to work!" Phenomenal video Tod, somehow you seem to keep making even better educational videos all the time!
I aim to please (see what I did there?)
@@tods_workshop As long as you don't do it with one of these things I'm ok with it (piercing damage I can deal with unless an artery is hit, but chemical burns not so much.... :-)
@@tods_workshop Bullseye ! 🎯
Only in England could you be confident of safely launching self-oxidizing arrows and trebuchet loads into a grassy field.
🎉right🎉. Red flag warning (again) today in Colorado
In the Netherlands, it is pretty safe too. It is raining again.
Ain't that so
@@PieterBreda Different type of grass.
It's the only place that's wet enough to do this safely. Even the antarctic ice is less wet than english grass.
'Great video as always' doesn't quite cut it. It is an outstanding demonstration of what makes this channel special: curiosity about how things were done and why, dedication to the craft, sprinkles of Tod's former profession as a film equipment supplier and enthusiasm to tie it all together.
Thanks for all the effort that half an hour gets brilliantly spent!
Thank you. Yes it is curiosity and also frustration at obvious mis-representation as in this case. Besides I like playing with fire
Fascinating! Like many i presumed that fire arrows were a Film-maker's construct, for making movie battle scenes look more spectacular.
Added bonus: "I've cooked dinner dearest; smoked pulled pork flavoured with Saltpetre, cotton, dash of lime and camphor, and a soupcon; a merest soupcon of arsenic."
This target I didn't eat
I mean, to a large degree they are.
Fire arrows were real and they were useful, but they weren't half so common in real life as they are in movies.
Their only purpose is to set things on fire. Aside from the added cost, they actually decrease lethality because they don't penetrate worth a darn.
But yeah, in the appropriate circumstances, they could be used to great effect.
People really underestimate how innovative folks in the past were. This is some pretty amazing stuff.
Man, Tod's videos are usually high quality but this one is in a whole new level! I enjoyed every second of it.
Thank you
Has the feeling of a TV pilot. Really excellent production.
@@davieshire3698 Can easily imagine Tod’s Workshop being a full TV show in the UK, say 15-20 years ago (before streaming killed off smaller documentary series).
@@tods_workshop Great video. Perhaps the next video could be about Greek Fire? Also could you do shield and armor penetration tests for the ballista? And maybe you find a horse and experienced rider for a penetration test for cavalry lances if that's possible. Thanks for your videos.
Looks like he spent a lot of time and money on this one.
Oh damn, this weapon wasn't as primitive as I thought it was. I always imagined just a rag soaked in oil tied near the tip, but this is on another level.
Totally sophisticated
I thought it was a simple rag-and-oil gimmick, too. But then I got my information from a D&D manual, so probably not the most accurate source.
It’s true, a lot of people forget how smart we are even in the last. Like ancient Persia had air conditioning. I have always had the view they had lots of high knowledge but primitive due to time but still strongly shaped
@@AlbertaGeekAs an example from 5E D&D does not allow for dual wielding of rapier and dagger (one of the most established forms of dual wielding that was actually done) and thinks trident was a better weapon than a spear and thinks the maximum range of the sling is 36 meters/120 feet. I'd say they have a lot of things that are probably grandfathered in to the game and that make absolutely no sense whatsoever with what we know about historical warfare, and that we actually knew about historical warfare 50 years ago as well (like the spear being a good weapon and not a shit one). I love that game but I would not trust it one bit for historical accuracy.
@@anarchclown Two-handed trident is better than two-handed spear though. But one handed spear and shield is a game changer.
Always love how Todd explains the good reason why movies don't do things historically.
Great video! I've heard a lot of backlash to the overuse of flaming arrows in movies where people swing all the way in the other direction and call fire arrows a myth, but I've read a few historical documents mentioning their use, so I knew they existed in some capacity. It's nice to learn about exactly what they looked like and how they worked!
OK, launching fire out of a trebuchet is terrifying. Imagine several of these being loosed at once. Yikes.
Now imagine the fire munitions, WITH arsenic turning into a chemical blister agent filling your fortification!
And they'd probably be used after volleys of standard projectiles to make sure the weapon was ranged and make potential holes and wreckage for the fireball to roll around in once it arrives.
The same way the RAF used blockbusters to damage and open up roofs before the main wave of bombers dropped incendiaries in WW2.
It's actually kinda crazy to think, there was a time when that technology was used for the first time, just imagine being in a castle and someone suddenly hurls that flaming piece of chemical warfare into your castle... I, for one, wouldn't be thrilled.
@@h.a.9880 "That's it! I'm definitely bringing this up at the next HOA meeting! You'll see..." 😄
Tod, you've been on fire these past few years man. This channel is fucking sick
Thanks
I spent the whole video worried that he might soon be on fire.
@@tods_workshopnice hat BTW Tod. 😊
Whoa man its been a hot minute since I heard sick used as praise, are you also an 80s baby or is it making a comeback? 😂
BRAVO! Great video, with great detail and solid experimentations. Thank you for backing up what I had said in my video on these! I made the point in one video of how medieval combustibles gave off horrible unbreathable smoke that would fill a room, and how they used chemistry to make practical fire arrows in another video, but I now feel a fool for not combining these two ideas and seeing the potential for driving people out of buildings by shooting them in through the windows.
nothing foolish about being able to admit a mistake. 👍
Todd you always have such a cool books ,we need a video about your library !
Thanks to you i found book -Greek and Roman Artillery, 399 BC-AD 363 (Duncan B. Campbell)
When i was a child i red a book Knight and Castle by Dk Eyewitness i fell in love with medieval time period.Playing stronghold crusader in early 2000's and building my silly made bows and arrows.But as i grew older i started to like mechanical aspect of these devices.And the books you recommend go in great detail.
Keep a good work sir ! Its always fun to see what next you come up with !
The arrows are nice, but that trebuchet light show is where it's at.
Sadly I forgot to shoot a fire arrow at night, but yes the treb did look cool as
@tods_workshop
I mean, you see that coming at you at night, and then you know right there you're headed for destination f*cked.
And the few individuals who *can* keep their heads now have to deal with all the ones who can't, and are either running around uselessly, or trying to open the gates to run out and surrender, or just curled up in a corner, whimpering and gabbling prayers.
The sound was amazing also
I like how you've dived into every version of fire-arrows, rather than the usual argument of the "we set a bit of paper alight inside a "fire-arrow cage" and it didn't work"-videos
Those channels are going for easy views, not proper research.
After stumbling across your channel back when the arrows vs armor videos came about it has quickly become one of my favorites. Keep up the awesome and informative work
Thanks Tod, this is why the internet was created; To share knowledge. No BS, no clickbait, no content farming just pure information.
3:21 poor soldier there was so afraid to get burned, he fainted.
I know - can't hit the bloody things, but they just die on their own
It was the blistering agent.
Died from smoke inhalation.
Great work! This is the difference between reading up on sources instead of ranting and speculating, as a certain someone does. Today, I´ve learned something, and I thank you for that.
Thank you
You can just say shad. We all know you mean shad. 😂
Though he does read up on specific sources for the things he's actually interested in.
Things like fire arrows though? Eeeeeeeh, I don't know.
He's better at sword to sword combat and the history behind that than anything else.
And European swordsmanship at that.
@@mr_h831 I actually meant Lindybeige.
@@jiriseidl4376 Wait for real? I don't watch that guy, I've seen like 2 videos. 😂
@@jiriseidl4376 There are unfortunately many popular wannabe "historians" on UA-cam that fit your description.
Absolutely fascinating to watch - and brilliantly produced as always Tod!
What a wonderful video Tod! Rammed full of real life experience, researched historical facts and of course your own skill as a craftsman. I learned a lot from this one and it's such an engaging and enjoyable way that you talk us through everything.
Mrs. Cutler is currently trying to find the roast she wanted to cook for dinner.😊
I always eat my targets, but not this time
..again ;)
@@tods_workshop flame grilled is quite the fashion
Mom: "Doctor, my Son keeps wanting to play with fire and arrows!"
Doctor: "Ahhh, a pyromaniac"
Mom: 'My son is an adult, and now makes medieval weapons and plays with fire!"
Doctor: "Ahhh, he's re-creational archaeologist!"
Love it!
Thankyou so much Tod, I've been subscribed for a very long time and I think this was one of my favourite videos.
Very informative, extremely interesting and so much fun to watch 👏
This is really fascinating to me. I had no idea about this being a thing, but I love the history and seeing technology being used. Marvellous work, Tod. I hope you make more videos like this, they’re very entertaining and informative. I want to get my hands on those books, but I feel like they’re hard to come by.
Ah the fire arrow, for when you need the 'everyone was harmed in the making of this siege' disclaimer
Great video, very informative. Thanks !
The sound that those arrows make when lit up and when they are crackling and sparkling is just so much cooler that what we ear in Hollywood movies.
Agreed
Yeah the visual is equally good, if not better
Thank you for filming this fabulously researched and undeniably fun project. It is one of my favorite videos.
A+ video. The shot of the trebushet firing that flaming ball was gorgeous. Very informative!
What a great lesson on the truth of fire weapons. I can see where their use on ship to ship battles would work to burn the rigging and sails of the opposing ship. Also any arrow or projectile that made it is to the gun decks would fill the place with chemical smoke and possibly ignite the gun powder awaiting loading.
Time for me to make a Mary Rose style fire dart as thrown from the tops......
@@tods_workshop I bet Drachinifel would collaborate on that experiment.
@@tods_workshop Fire Plumbata ?..... You Evil Evil man
How long do I have to wait to see that ??
Don't try this at home. Never have I been more tempted to ignore this.
Yeah, I’m definitely trying this!
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 Me too
Fascinating stuff. And great production quality too!
This is an amazing video. Tod, you went all out for this. Thank you!
The fire arrows are amazing, but Wow!! The sound of those flaming trebuchet rounds is amazing! Love it, Tod!
Quotes Todd, “there was an industry standard for the color of fire arrow”. Were these arrows produced by a guild(s)? Proprietary recipes and prices and all?
That came from The Book of the Firework. This was a hand written manuscript from around 1400 and we still have over 60 copies so I am thinking there were probably thousands, so this colour coding was a very wide spread piece of information. I imagine the arrows were made by gunners etc rather than guilds
The mix would be partly a trade secret and partly to meet a demand, I.E. you want it to be water proof then add more quicklime.
@@tods_workshopsounds like the standard colors in modern ordnance, yellow bands and printing for HE for example.
Everything about this video was on point. Might be one of my favorite youtube videos of all time. From the fascinating subject, covering all the things I wondered before and due to the video, great pacing that kept me engaged, and even the script/production seems up a notch. Thank you so much Tod for doing this work. Its everything an engineer/scientist and history lover could want to see.
Thank you - very kind
Outstanding work, Tod. Your best video yet
"I'm now going to pull my shaft"
I know the feeling, Tod, I enjoyed this video too!
Yes I did chuckle
Ships also had anti boarding netting over the decks, and sails, and pieces of sail covering stuff. ropes where also tarred/pitched. image the netting over your head being of fire giving off smoke.....
Or *preventing* you from getting away from the fire/fumes.
A lot of the casualties in the Mary Rose disaster were, iirc, due to the boarding nettings having already been rigged and trapping the men on the ship when it went down.
Somuch better then anything you'd see on television, Really great content Tod.
You put a great deal of effort into this.
I like your style Todd. Direct, to the point, and unapologetic. Loads of interesting information well presented. Good stuff man, thanks!
We used to fumigate large grain silos and storehouses with chunks of burning sulfer. A tightly sealed building would be fatal to enter for many hours afterwards. The fumes would kill every bird, mouse and insect within. It was very unpleasant when we went back in to air the place out. The fumes would linger in odd spots.
In the movie "Alatriste" there's a similar scene during the siege of Breda. The Dutch burn sulfur to kill Spanish troops who are counter-mining their attempts to dig under and blow up the Spanish siege lines.
@@christopherreed4723 an awful way to go
@@christopherreed4723 oo, Im stealing that for my writing thing!
@@yumazster Watch the movie. It's a bit tricky to find, since afaik it was never released in the US, but well worth it. My CD is a South America release that has US player codes on it as well. I'll bet you didn't know that Viggo Mortensen speaks fluent Spanish 😄
Ah yes, Tod casually pushing the envelope of quality yet again. Brilliantly done!
Once again I love this channel. Keep it up! Also do a vid on how you made your 80 pound yew bow, it's got some interesting curves there at the riser.
You've outdone yourself Todd, wonderful demonstrations and in-depth explanations!
Yes, finally a video about fire arrows. I’ve been wanting this since I saw Kevin the Bowman talk about them. I’m glad it’s being more mainstream.
Tod I don't comment on many videos these days, but this deserves any compliments it gets. The research, fabrication, filming, narrating and editing is wonderful my hats off to you.
I absolutely love this type of content. Great video Todd.
Wow, this has the quality of a fantastic TV programme. You can really feel the history. Amazing work!
Thanks for this. This is an important video, as other popular historical UA-camrs have put out videos in the past few years claiming that fire arrows are fictional. With the research being shown here its clear that they were real, and the other UA-camrs, rather than doing research, were simply recreating what they saw in Hollywood using what material they had to hand (which meant the arrows weren't fit for purpose).
How can someone believe that fire arrows are fictitious? There are extant ones. I’ve seen a fire (crossbow) bolt in a museum in Zurich, complete with its incendiary packet.
Fire arrows *AS SEEN IN MEDIA* are fictitious. Tod even demonstrates this fact at 2:36 and 12:20.
What has happened is that UA-camrs making these videos are trying to debunk media depictions of medieval history as paragons of fact. Not all of them knew of existing ones when making those videos, and even the ones that did were actively trying to beat the monolith of media, which requires exaggeration.
This has unfortunately resulted in people believing that fire arrows weren't real.
I definitely agree that this video is important! I, too, had fallen under the false presumption that fire arrows weren't really used. In hindsight, that was silly.
@@drzander3378 ^ Read above
@@necroseusI strongly disagree that rebutting mass media requires exaggeration, that just makes a big chunk of the audience dismiss the rebuttal because it's either clearly exaggerated or doesn't match basic research.
The other risk of exaggeration is exactly what you're talking about, that the audience doesn't look at other sources of information and just takes the exaggeration as gospel, which is exactly what mass media did in the first place! Overcorrecting is not helpful in driving or in education.
It's difficult for sure but I think you have to take the time to collect multiple examples of actual history, which preferably are easily verifiable, and have some more nuance in your discussion.
@@jameshealy4594 Fair points. Perhaps "emphasis" is a better suited word.
You're right that blatant overexaggeration would lead to knowledgable audiences leaving. I also agree that exaggeration is a bad thing when communicating educational material.
However, please take into account that this side of UA-cam became popular because enthusiastic but woefully uneducated people were interested in learning.
The vast majority of people watching these channels likely won't go and fact check every 20 minute video they are binging, and so any accidental or purposeful exaggeration wouldn't be noticed.
That isn't to say that exaggeration is necessary for countering myths, as I agree that that wasn't a good argument of mine. What it is to say is that the audience that isn't interested in independent research (most people) walk away with incorrect notions whether exaggeration is present or not.
---
As for changing my wording to emphasis as opposed to exaggeration:
Look at the process of beating the stereotype of plate armour heavily reducing mobility in disabling one from mounting a horse.
Entirely true statements were often said, and emphasized, ad nauseum. (I am not quoting anything directly here. I'm generalizing frequent arguments):
"Armour did not make you a slow, lumbering tank. If it did that you couldn't fight," "Knight were perfectly capable of mounting horses," "Armour is often more flexible than the human inside of it," "Armoured fighting was agile and athletic, it wasn't two tin cans bashing each other with blunt objects," "A full suit of medieval plate armour is no heavier than what an average infantryman wears today."
None of the above are lies or exaggerated. However, the *emphasis* on directly countering pre-established myths has resulted in people taking away incorrect notions. Such as armour is entirely unencumbering, flexible, agile, and invulnerable.
Nuance gets missed because, well, not every UA-camr is a skilled writer who can write an information dense, succinct, and simultaneously entertaining video that ensures all nuances are effectively communicated, especially in the heat of passion!
Videos like this one take a lot more time and money to create than your typical 20 minute ramble on a given topic with some cursory research done beforehand. They are not really a viable way to run a UA-cam channel, either.
---
I absolutely agree more time should be spent on ensuring that the information given is factual, verifiable, and effective in thoroughly debunking myths.
However, that is an ideal standard for future content. My original comment was a brief explanation of how we have gotten to where we are.
We have Japanese ninja manuals that Antony Cummins has gone through for fire implements and tools as well. One use of fire arrows and similar devices is to light up an area or room at night so that you can see the enemy for example if you are launching an ambush. Similar to Europe the Japanese did use flaming arrows to burn things too.
They could be formulated to do this I imagine
@@tods_workshop I agree, and it made the ambush scene in the TV series Shogun almost plausible I thought. Obviously, they overused them a lot after the initial volley but as you said earlier, we gotta see the projectiles and they look cool so I think it was fine. Of course, an issue is you might give away your own position but from what you have shown us it seems like that issue could be mitigated. Obviously, for the show, the fire arrows were made as visible as possible for our convenience :).
Love how much effort you put into these films, Tod.
Each time you give us new video I fell I was blessed by discovering you and your channel. Thanks for all the great work you do ❤
With the prevailing wind blowing towards a wooden palisade, that noxious smoke would be gong over the top and into the face of defenders.... And considering the blistering agents....YIKES....
I love this video! Probably favorite Tod's Workshop film. I loved the format of going into detail and background information/theory. Great stuff! Keep it up
I really liked this one Tod. Great video, filled with substantiated info and demonstrations.
Oh, I love this video. Very informative, entertaining, and focused. The editing is phenomenal! Never knew fire arrows were so cool. Like you said, people only think about just the "fire" aspect and think it's just fire on a stick when really it's so much more about the chemistry inside of it, gunpowder, smoke. Even that design where the shaft detaches from the head so it's very hard to remove the damn thing is insidious but genius! Great video!
Thank you
This is a fantastic episode. I've been arguing this for years but never found any good concrete demonstrations. I'm so glad you uploaded this for generations to come and correct popular opinion of history.
I'm so glad you included the literature and first hand accounts in the video. Many people on youtube would just shoot the cool arrows, but you gave an actual entire history (and alchemy) lesson! Kudos
Excellent video and extremely informative! It really changed my perspective on fire arrows! Thanks for making the effort to produce this! 👍👍
i love watching content like this. SO many people have this weird notion that our ancestors where unga bunga cavemen, but fail to understand that humans are virtually IDENTICAL to our ancestors of the last 10's of thousands of years including our brain, and from that we can be ABSOULTEY sure that they where just as intelligent as anyone living today and they laid the foundation for our life of honestly magical convenience.
Same people- same brains, just their technology wasn't as advanced, but their desires were pretty much the same
for sure! however, environmental factors do play a role in intelligence, since e.g. lack of certain nutrients or exposure to excessive amounts of others does have a real and significant effect on the brain and therefore intelligence, sometimes reversible, sometimes not... so the potential for equal (or greater) intelligence is there, but the likelihood of reaching that was probably lower for many people imo, unfortunately
A fun fact is that the average human IQ has been going backwards since 2006 per research done at US Northwest University. We'll be well behind our ancestors soon 😁
Humans are very, very good at (and very inventive about) two things. One is making more humans. The other is getting rid of inconvenient humans. The manner and variety we've come up with to accomplish those two goals over the millennia are mind-boggling.
A funny interesting thing. We still use black powder in a surprising number of modern weapons. In some cases where it is used nothing we've come up with is better than those primitive people had way back then.
Such as shrapnel shells that expel the shrapnel forward out of the shell like a mini cannon. High explosives would just shatter the shell making it not work.
If a long distance away you want to rain steel down on your enemy one of the ways to do it is with front ejecting shrapnel shells. That fire the shrapnel out the front with black powder.
It's actually more common than you would think because it can eject high tech payloads relatively safety for the payload compared to more modern options.
The US recently ran into the problem where we had a black powder shortage for modern weapons. Who'd have thought in the 2020s we'd have headlines about our military industrial complex running out of black powder?
"I am the god of hell fire! and I bring you fire."
"when I was a yout' I used to burn collie weed in a rizla"
Respect for the Arthur Brown reference.
What brand is that cap?
I did figure flame arrows were specialized equipment but had no idea our ancestors were so methodical and industrious about it. Phenomenal showcase, Tod.
Amazing stuff, good to see a in depth review on something like this, thanks!
Incredible video Tod. I really appreciate the depth you went in your research on the arrows, their composition, and their use. I learned a lot from this that I didn't know before.
And that flaming trebuchet shot... wow, that looked incredible.
From further away it looks like it's wrapped in bacon
My mum sede the same thing
Me too. I know bacon has a lot of fat in it, and fat burns, so I thought they actually were bacon. Turns out they were far worse!
Bacon-wrapped stuffed jalapeno arrows.
Im a big Tod' Workshop fan and i've seen most of your videos but this video is exceptional, I got tingles at the intro. One of the best channel's on You Tube by a medieval country mile
Thank you
fascinating subject, debunking misinformation, consulting sources, experimenting, great rhythm between clear explanations and pure action. God this video was great and I needed it, I watched some videos about fire arrows in the past, no one used the historical sources and they contradicted each other so I still had this big curiosity. Thank you!!
An incredibly well produced video! The presentation of both the script and set are absolutely lovely, engaging, and informative, if course.
Thanks for your hard work, Tod!
This makes the bows on the “Mary Rose” make a great deal of sense. Nothing would be more frightening on a Sail Ship than fire, and the sails would be an easy target with Fire Arrows.
I think the more frightening thing would be finding that it's developed a sinking problem, and that some bright spark put so much rigging/netting on it that you may as well be a fish as it drags you into the Solent within sight of the Round Tower which you could otherwise have swum back to.
But yeah, really any aspects of ships then or now, is chuffing terrifying to anyone with an imagination. The Channel Tunnel is a wild improvement.
@@jonevansauthorsinking ships wasn't really a thing - even into the age of cannons, they just couldn't really attack a ship below the waterline, very few ships sank.
Before cannons there wasn't much way to attack the hull of a ship anywhere even
That's making me wonder, where and how the arrow being shot might influence it.
I'm guessing shooting at an extended sail might simply pass through the cloth without setting fire to the cloth.
Or maybe one could aim for the masts that the sails hang from and the fire might extend from there. I truly have no idea how good it will extend.
@xxlepusxx sail cloth was very durable, it had to withstand some very strong winds. I imagine these arrows would be aimed at the sails to ignite them.
Rigging I imagine would not be a good target as the arrow would be likely to fall below decks.
The Mary Rose was around with gunpowder though, I can also see the arrows being fired into port holes and such, hoping to find something lucrative (such as a powder keg) within.
Such a comprehensive video, good job!
Great work Tod. Really interesting and well made video
Could you use a slower burning arrow against thicker wooden structures and would it catch alight? I think we need some recipe experimentation to really know how effective these weapons were.
there is a Phd in this, but not for me, but I doubt it will be the last time I play with them
Brilliant piece of research and experimental archaeology, especially the effects on different targets (and the air around it), I hope you'll publish this! Fascinating how early gunpowder tech fed into archery like this. It shows how tech is not a linear thing with the new replacing the old; there's often a long period of overlap with mutual influence. A follow up on pre 1300 fire weapons would be good too, to trace the evolution. And, of course, one on the greatest and most mysterious fire-weapon of history: *Greek fire.*
Thanks and I will have a look at non- oxidiser based stuff
The musket fire arrow was a trip
Funny... I started getting interested in fire arrows three days ago, and now here's a full video on it. 😂 You are just great Tod! Your content is always interesting and informative. I also love your manner. You are so positive, interested, honest and respectful. Keep up the good work! You're one of a kind.
@18:21 for a second there, I thought we were about to see you loose a thumb 😀. Great video, I really enjoyed it. Always good to see the truth behind some of the stories that Hollywood tells us.
In my youth, pobably every Polish boy knew in what proportions to mix nitrate (potassium or ammonium) with sugar (or coal and sulfur), and if someone was a bit more knowledgeable and had access to chemicals, also with magnesia and other cool things. And how to use such a mixture with pipes, aerosol cans, paint cans, or other things. Or how to make a smoke screen by adding powdered rubber from tires. Those were fun times.
Hey man! You were actually the first person I ever subscribed to. I stopped watching you for a couple of years but I'm glad I'm back as this is one of the most interesting channels out there
Welcome home and thanks
Great video Tod, one of your best!
I had no idea medieval fire arrows was so advanced, but it makes sense that they were, especially for the later medieval centuries.
"saltpeter"
Yeah, i figured it looked a lot like some mixes i've used to "make pretty lights", as saltpeter was the primary and most basic ingredience.
It also took rather minor changes to achieve things like bigger flames but less heat and vice versa, or get the flames to burn in various colors, and you could also turn them into functional smokemakers(basically, with some extras added, you can easily make the smoke magnitudes thicker, blacker(ie less see-through) and heavier).
"a bit longer"
That is definitely very very likely yes.
What you're describing suggests decades or even centuries of improvements and variations, absolutely not instantly appearing finished as described.
"just my hypothesis"
I think anyone sane would agree.
"not for battlefield use"
Correction, not for COMMON battlefield use i would say. Because i definitely think they would be used like that as well SOMETIMES.
Now I want to see a "fire arrows vs gambeson" video, and I don't think I'm the only one.
@@corrinestenman5683 Hehe, yeah.
I'm not holding my breath though, because making real armor is expensive and that kind of test would likely destroy the test armor more or less completely.
If im a commander with a store of these and no upcoming seige i could see using them on a battlefield for hurting morale, disrupting cavalry, lighting up tall grass on my flank to discourage skirmishers etc.
@@caseco4979 Exactly yeah. And if a commander has the materials and extra time to prepare? Absolutely possible.
22:05 I just imagined 10-20 of these finding their way into ship's gunports. Yeah good luck working on that deck.
Especially since linen-bagged gunpowder charges didn't catch on until the 1700s. In the 1500s, cannon were loaded with loose powder, scooped from barrels kept on the gun deck. An arrow doesn't even need to find one of those. All that needs to happen is for some panicked crewman to stumble into one and knock it over. Now you have loose powder on a deck that's "awash" with ignition sources.
12:31 Love that slo-mo of the modern/rubbish arrow basically leaving the flame behind as it speeds off! Probably the sort of thing that makes many people think the real medieval ones weren't that effective,
Really fantastic video :)
Really hard work behind the scenes. Nicely done!
Really excellent episode Tod, one of your best in my opinion. Completely debunked a lot of myths I had believed up until today. Splendid job!
who have I learned medieval history more from:
1000 people swinging swords in their backyard
1 madlad shooting a variety of weapons in a field
Hey now, Skallagrim did a lot to popularize the Medieval UA-cam space! Without his work, it's very possible this video wouldn't have even had the incentive to get made.
Put some respect on that backyard swordsman's name.
This is one of your best films, absolutely smashing work!
This was a very interesting video! I have wondered about the issues you presented with fire arrows. Top notch production value and very well made video! New sub here.😃👍
Stop setting fire to the nice arrows I make for you!!
Think of it this way. Tod is doing his best to keep Fletchers in work! 😂
No I won’t. Will keep breaking them too and doing other horrible things to them. Besides one killed a camera of mine, so evens.
That old Lindybeige video avout fire arrows finally got a great competiton :)
This is such a great video!
i hope he responds to this
@@Archontasil I mean that video is 90% about the movie style fire arrows in an open battle. It doesn't really contradict anything here.
@@hifikameliin that video he almost completely dismissed the whole idea of fire arrow, not just the movie arrow, however he did mention the usage of fire arrow in sieges and naval warfare, but he stated only to be used as a distraction, to redirect men from fighting to snuff out the fire
The fire arrow scene in Robin Hood PoT were real fire arrows.This isn't the only way to make them.