Printing ABS with an open frame 3D printer?
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- People are often asking in comments how I print ABS on open frame 3D printers. For many prints, producing them in ABS is just a matter of upping the bed and nozzle temps and turning off the cooling fan. Other models, however, are destined to failure.
In this guide, I explore ABS printing successes and failures, and explain why ABS can be so difficult to print using some custom animations.
Summary:
-ABS needs 240+ for nozzle and 100 for bed.
-Fan to be turned off except for bridging, etc.
-Shrinkage occurs on thick/solid objects due to the uneven cooling causing the cooler areas to contract.
-This results in a lifted base and/or splitting between layers.
-The best way to overcome this is to raise ambient temps with an enclosure.
-Otherwise you are limited to printing models with thin or narrow sections.
-ABS is mainly useful for prints that need to withstand higher temperatures.
-ABS can be acetone smoothed!
-ABS releases potentially harmful particles into the air where PLA does not.
-PETG is a good substitute for ABS.
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#3dprinting #abs #explained
I used ABS for a long time on an open frame printer with a lot of success. I always tried to use no more than two perimeter walls, no more than 3 top and bottom layers, and 15% or less on the infill. People always make the mistake of making their print more solid thinking that it will help reduce warping, but as you pointed out, the center retains warmth while the outside cools and contracts.
Why nobody could explain better than this guy!!! Men I been battling with abs until I saw this video thanks 😊
I print ABS every so often on my ender 2 because of the beds capability to heat to a higher temp than my cr-10 and also the heat of that bed is more even. Other setting tips for cura users are to use lower infill temperatures than the set print temperature( i.e. i use 250 for my set temp but drop infill temp to 240), I've found that the draft shield is also worth the wasted filament for better odds of success, and cubic infill usually disperses the internal stress more uniformly so that there aren't areas of elevated stress, especially at sharp corners.
Great info, thanks for sharing.
Hi, how do you setup cura to alter printing temperature for infill only?
Hi, would you mind sharing more about your cura settings?
The main reasons to print in ABS are the mechanical properties - it's machinable, flexible, creeps not too much, and can be welded with acetone. I believe the flexibility is actually the reason why the vase mode worked out - when the walls are so thin, they can slightly flex without ripping the part off the bed or cracking. There is a good trick to keep ABS stuck to the bed - dissolve some of the material in acetone and cover the print bed with the slurry.
I've never used a slurry because the effort vs reward was out of whack for me. Thanks for sharing.
Any idea of acetone will eat away at a stock Ender 3 bed?
Print with a skirt all the way up. The skirt may crack and split but holds the heat in the print better.
So the print comes out much better. Had a lot of success with this method.
hey thats interesting how do I change that setting in Cura to make the skirt print the same height as my part?
Thank you in advance
@@HAB378 You need to activate draft shield in Cura experimental settings.
I tried that with nylon on a piece I have been trying to make which has 100% infill. Actually got worse - much worse.
@@Skul-Ski I bet its the 100% infill getting you. if you have slight over extrusion than the extra plastic has nowhere to go and will cause an ugly or failed print.
Or a oose shield
I always appreciate your methodical and organized approach to conveying your information. Well done.
Couldn't put it better myself. Like Mike (pardon any 'be like' pun), you said something that could take many words & said it best in few. As a newcomer to 3D printing, I think this is a hidden gem of a channel that will hopefully grow to get the recognition it deserves.
Thanks guys, very kind.
I have always had a completely different explanation than outer wall contraction: I completely enclosed my Solidoodle 3 and every time I would go to rpint I would preheat the bed for 10 minutes before printing. 8 years and this is rock solid always print with ABS. I hate how brittle PLA is. Now for my theory on lifting/curling. The outer walls do not cool faster than the infill. The outer walls have more density and retain the heat especially if you have more shells. But the infill is basically a lattice where even the smallest of air currents (even walking by your printer) will draft cool air inside the print and the infill contracts while the outer shell is still warm (and still flexible). The infill acts as a internal bungie cord, pulling the outside shell inward, lifting corners and overhangs. This is why round base objects suffer much less. Enclosing a non-moving-platform printer like the SD3 stops all air movement. An interesting test to prove me wrong would be to print a cube with no infill and see if the corners lift. If they do lift under the same conditions without any infill, then outer wall contraction would be the only reason.
You can minimize internal stresses of a printed part by using less infill. This will result in your part cooling faster from the air surrounding it but at the same time, there will be less (hopefully, far less)material trying to rip the layers apart and your part off the print bed. Another way to help reduce internal stresses is to print slower, especially if you're printing at the lower end of the heat spectrum for the plastic. Stretching of the molten plastic as it gets laid down will leave internal stresses in your part and this is the other cause of warping. All those stresses relax, any stretched material will contract, any material that got pushed together(this often happens when you use ironing in your slicer with extra extrusion during the ironing) will bulge outwards destroying any and all dimensional accuracy in the part.
Another great video Mike.
I've dedicated my Anycubic i3 to ABS. I've got it inside a simple thick clear plastic green house enclosure placed into the corner of the room, to keep the breezes away from it. I also always close the nearby window. The enclosure helps keep the smell in, which is a major bonus. My settings are 85 for the bed, 240 for the hot end and fan speed at 50% after the the 5th layer (I'd have to double check on this). I'm a real believer in if it works leave it alone and those setting seem to work well for me. Since I've been using them I've not had any lifting, cracking or warping nor have I had any Steppers over heating and causing layer shifts.
Sounds like you have 3D printing nirvana, where everything is perfectly in balance. Congrats on an awesome setup, thanks for sharing.
Pete I’ve got the same printer! Thanks for sharing because I was about to throw my abs out the window... lol I’ll try that
I'm new at anycubic. How to setting speed fan after 5th layer?
Reduce density as much as possible. I also use a .2 nozzle. I love abs for printing figures. Supports seem to detach cleaner, and when you sand and cut on it, it doesn't get fuzzy like PLA. Its the best if you ask me.
The one thing I really miss is acetone smoothing. Very hazardous fumes but the results were amazing.
Good point - the fuzzies don't get talked about enough. And the reduced stringing in ABS.
Ambient temperature in your print room is a big factor. Great video, thank you
Agreed. Leaving a heater on nearby can make a huge difference. Thanks for watching :)
I ONLY print in ABS !
Why? because it's temp resistant, tough and you can weld parts together using acetone.
It also does not degrade as much, old ABS prints just as good as new ABS.
Furthermore, clogged nozzles is something i don't have (maybe three times the last 4 years) . ABS can stay as long as you want in a hot or cold nozzle, when you heat up the nozzle again, it flows out nicely leaving no residue in the nozzle.
Print quality is as good as with PLA, except with overhangs and bridges, but you can work around that.
Having said that, I only make functional parts, i don't do Marvel figures and other ^#@# :-)
I'll be starting in to ABS very shortly. It's why I bought a printer in the first place, to make structural, functional things. One category is to replace broken parts on motorcycle body work that is made of ABS, so acetone fusing is essential. And if I want to sell some parts, buyers will want to be applying the same material the rest of the panels are made from, for sanding and painting reasons.
This video was weird for ending up basically saying, why use ABS at all? That's like asking a contractor, why use bricks, or why make a counter top out of granite when pine is much easier? I'm typing this on a styrofoam keyboard
Winand D - PLEASE, PLEASE do some videos to share your experience and knowledge. I only print functional parts for prototyping and I get damned tired of people reviewing machines and materials by printing out crappy Benchies and Pikatoos.
ABS suggestions - I print almost exclusively in ABS as well .
If you can break up the long runs with holes designed in (in areas that have extrude runs from one side to the other or on long runs of infill extrude) - so it ends up looking like what we though the future would like in the 50's - very aircraft wing cross sectiony with all those circles cut through the alum wing ribs - this helps with warp because there is less mass overall to contract.
Use less infill - you really don't need that much especially if you use one of the new 3D infills that isn't just a grid of crossing spars.
Get that bed as hot as possible.
Use a raft or a brim or mouse ears to help the part stick to the bed beyond the print shape A weak raft can let the print lift so either use a brim and forgo a raft (if you can't control that) or make the raft print heavy (sometimes called a structural raft).
I've got the bed usually at 110C.
Get that bed anchored down hard; even with binder clips front and back you can easily warp the build plate up at the sides under the stress of the warp.
Level that bed - slight differences in adhesion can start the lifting.
Get the nozzle as close as possible to the bed on the first layer- you really want to squish the extruded first-layer ABS down hard - basically keep moving the nozzle down until it won't extrude and then back off a thou or two. (the classic "sheet of paper" is too thick)
Orient the parts so they are laying down to reduce build height.
Use an enclosure so everything is kept at about the same temp.
Try turning on or turning off the part cooling fan - depending on the part sometimes one or the other will help - you get used to the shapes that need it. I have an automated door near the cooling fan (over a hole in the enclosure) I can open with a gcode command when the print gets to thin towers or something it will focus on for a long time, as these tend to get sloppy in the hot environment and need some cooling help.
Print one object at time - the less time spent building, the less warping takes place. You want to get to the top of the print as soon as you can. You only loose the time it takes to change the build plate between prints if you have a multi object print. Overall single prints of a multi print job takes the same amount of time and even less if you have bad prints to redo.
Oh and keep those filaments dry dry dry.
Try different manufacturers of filaments. Because of the three components (and sometimes additives) that give ABS its name, these can be in any percentages and can still be technically called ABS, so different companies will have their own formulation. Sadly for my pocket book I'm very fond of Afinia's Premium filaments - they also come with a premium price (and a top-end nozzle temp) but for my parts its worth it, but I've also been very happy with AMZ3D's ABS. (my first printer was an Afinia and I never found another filament that could match theirs even on my other machines). Look out too for sloppy filament diameters - for some reason ABS or ABS mfrs can let their diameter spec wander all over the place within the same roll.
With a hotter hot end you get better layer adhesion (so fewer cracks) but usually more warping due to the temp differential. Again different mnfr will perform differently. (hotter temps will also give a gloss look) Different colors also perform differently - I don't know if this is the dye that's doing it or the color (black radiates heat faster than white).
Other reasons not mentioned for using ABS: Less brittle than PLA, so good for useable parts. Carvable with a knife without shattering. It mills well and won't melt under an end mill before the chips are cleaned out. Holds a thread well for tapping. Doesn't deform over time - PLA will change shape in a couple of weeks if put under load. You can design in and expect the ABS warp and give your part excellent tension/compression strength it would only have with more material. Fantastic high heat tolerance - good under hot water, and I've had parts sitting within mm of high intensity halogen bulbs for years with no sign of scorching or deformation. You can print more parts with the same kg of ABS. PLA is a denser plastic and since the extruder only cares about volume and not weight (technically length of filament) you get more parts out of 1kg of ABS than you do out of PLA. Much less stringy than PETG and better specs in my book. If you need UV protection then use ASA (ABS with out the B). But it is more brittle and not as strong.
@Heads Mess True True. Usually if the model will have a large cross section at the build plate I will design in little risers that I cut off later so that it reduces the adhesion area. Or if you want to edit the G-code so that those risers have a little hop after that layer so they don't stick quite as well - like the way a raft can peel off.
Do you have some sort of ventilation or enclosure?
This video actually explains things. Nice work!
Great info as always Michael. I used ABS when I first started 3D Printing (DaVinci printer) but quickly moved to PLA. These days PLA is my go to material unless I need something specific, then I too generally use PETG or TPU. I haven't printed with ABS for a very long time.
I'm similar. Trouble is I have kilos of the stuff left.
I thought of a resolution for that. When I had finished with the DaVinci (ABS only) I gave it to a friend, along with all my ABS filament. He still uses it when he wants to print in ABS, but he also has a CR-10 now too. Yep, it was my fault that he got into 3D Printing. What are friends for :-)
Having all kinds of trouble with ABS, which I need because of the outdoor temperature on a motorcycle (camholder), I learned from your vid that my assumptions about cooling in the middle were right. So instead of prinring my design upright (9cm) I will try it printing horizontally (only 2cm up, 9 wide) and see it that will prevent the splitting which you so nicely demonstrated. Thx for the intel!
Michael Schulze did it work
@@ShadowGaming-ft4fh Yes, it did! :)
you usually want to do this anyway, as provides faster printing speeds.
One of the advantages of ABS that you did not mention is that it can be polished easily with acetone. This is the only reason, apart from the higher temperature tolerance, that is relevant, and why abs is still popular in 3D printing world
This is very true. There is a note in the description about this but not everyone reads there.
You can acetone weld ASA as well !
@@winandd8649 if yuo can print asa ,yuo can print abs
@@noway8233 True, but that was not the question right?
Recently i found ASA to be a worthy successor of ABS (UV resistant, little less shrinkage)
So it's useful to know that ABS is not the only material which can be acetone welded.
@@winandd8649 Black ABS is also UV resistant due the colorant.
I like abs because it has very little stringing and slightly weaker layer adhesion. The weaker layer adhesion means you can make very good supports that come off easily while still being pretty close to the model. I use it to print very complex protein models that wouldn't be possible with pla where the support often turns into razor sharp spikes
I only print ABS on my Wanhao Duplicator i3 after I first got it, and had a lot of trouble with the bigger more solid prints at start. To solve all my issues I build a cheap case and only used 2 cheap Ikea lac tables and bought 4 polyester sheets cut to size to fit between the legs and 3D printed some parts I designed and used some screws to connect it all. The front polyester sheet is only hold by magnets and can be removed by a set of handles, because a hinged door would always be in the way. It was a fun project and it really works.
I wanted to start with ABS to challenge myself and to give myself the idea that if I could master ABS I could print with any material.
I print directly on a piece of glass that is on the heated bed and spray some 3D Lac on it (Bit like hairspray but made for 3D printing) to make the print stick good when the bed is heated to 100 degrees. The ABS I work with works best for me at 250 degrees. When the print is done I teached myself not to open the door directly but just let the print cool slowly and most of the time it will just snap loose from the glass plate.
But personally I would advise most people to stick with PLA because you can get better results without all the trouble and even things like overhang will be handles a lot better when using PLA and lower temperatures will also be a lot better for your 3D printer. But if you want to make something that you might want to leave in your car like a holder for your phone or cupholder then you might want to consider ABS so your print won't deform when it gets hot.
Or yuo can use Petg..
Thank you so much! This was the answer to all my ABS questions and probably the fastest I've ever obtain answers from yt
When I print ABS, I found it's better to have an Ooze shield offset by 1-2 mm from the part (even in enclosed machines) - extra wasted plastic, but it does keep that little bit of extra heat.
That is a really great tip. I've only even used that for dual extrusion.
I like ABS for its acetone magic. Petg it's been my substitute for temperature exposed parts. Believe it or not, but I had a problem with pla warping. Lol
Great work!
Haha same, I also have PLA warping on my Ender 3. I do use a glass bed though. A bit of hairspray combined with a brim makes it work like a charm though
Pla doesn't like high temperature bed. Mine ok at 50.
I got abs to work with my ender 3 by heating the hot end to 240 the bed to 110 and using a plastic bag as an enclosure. After that I still had a tiny bit of warping, but I fixed that by adding a brim.
Just a few things that were game changers for me as far as 3D printing with ABS is concerned: 1. ABS "juice". This really helps a great deal. I print directly on glass (CR-10S) and so far I have not had any chipping of the glass when I remove objects. 2. Mouse ears/pads for sharp corners. Size about 20 mm in diameter, 2 or 3 layers high. 3. Now that I had the bed adhesion sorted out, I still had layer separation to deal with. In my case I found the feed rate to be the culprit. On my machine I had to chase it up to 120% and, at long last, I could print a perfect print in ABS. 4. Also experiment with smaller layer heights etc. What really made sense to me is to set the print acceleration to a very small value, say, 10-20 mm/s/s. This ensures more heat around the corners, making for better bonding between the layers. I am quite able to print very well with my bed temperature around 85 degrees. And lastly, a cover for the printer can't hurt. At least it will keep out all those nasty fumes. :)
I was going to use abs for shear strength over pla, mostly for kids toys. But, as with all things one learns in a new hobby, it’s not safe in the environment my printer is currently in. Because I’m so in love with my Ender 3 I’ve decided to pick up its bigger brother, the cr10s, come Christmas. I’ll be using that for much larger projects. When I do I’ll build an enclosure and exhaust system for my Ender 3 and use it for ABS.
Black Wolfe CC can i get an update on that printer status? Lol
RC Homemade Hobbies what would you like to know? I never went with the cr10s, instead purchased an Ender 5 plus. I built a self regulating enclosure for my two Ender 3s and they’ve been running almost entirely abs for 8-9 months now.
Black Wolfe CC I have an Anycubic I3 mega and I’ve been trying to get it working... my bed is set to 85 and nozzle is at 240 Celsius. Is there a difference in color? Please let me know some say black is easier and bright colors have different chemicals. What color do u print with? I’m new to ABS
RC Homemade Hobbies I haven’t used an i3 Mega before, so not sure what quirks it has. I run my bed temp at 105c with black, and 95-100 for all other colors. I primarily print with transparent or white abs because of the neutral color. Black can be easier to print with because it holds heat longer (that’s a characteristic of black for anything). 240c is a good temp, but make sure it’s within the manufactures recommendations. I run between 30mm/s and 60mm/s depending on filament. I can get my white/translucent abs up to 100mm/s at higher temps (255 - 260c). . I also use no cooling at all. I actually took my part cooling fan completely off. Just make sure to turn the fan off in whatever slicer you are using. Layer separation can become an issue if the surrounding environment is too cool. I have this issue when trying to run abs on my Ender 5 plus which is NOT in an enclosure. If you are having bed adhesion issues, make up some abs juice or buy some. I use both a home made brew and a retail product, both work very well. But be careful if your not using a flexible bed, might stick to well.
@@blackwolfecc Thanks! im using yellow ABS and am trying to get the bed level... Should i use a brim? When you print something whats your settings for your open frame printer? My max Extruder temp is 260*C and my max bed temp is 110*C im going to try 90*C for my bed. My print is 11Hours long and i can barely get it started...
Im going to play with the settings in Ultimaker Cura software(what i use) before i print...
Thanks for sharing your opinion on ABS printing with us. I was just wondering how successful would I be trying with open frame printing, but I'm aware of the pitfalls now. Back to my open frame PETG printing, with very reliable results, on my Anycubic kossel and MK2 clone!
A lot of the time if your setup is working, don't change it! Unless you you are experimenting for the sake of experimenting.
Amazing how much has changed in 4 years.
I print a lot on ABS, mainly because I don't care much about aesthetics, and I mainly print utility parts for robotics or machines, I built an enclosure out of PVC pipe and plastic sheets and it prints almost the same as PLA or PETG and costs half as PETG around here I like it a lot, I may try polycarbonate or Nylon later, but PC is super expensive and nylon is super finnicky with moisture so I might keep ABS as my main material
Very helpful. And straight to the point, as always. Keep up the good work.
What I don't understand about this is why the bed temps are so high. I print PLA with a bed temp of 45C and I have never had an issue from this parameter. I'm farely sure 45C is excessive but it's not an issue to attain where as 60 or 100C is just about impossible with my CR10. Tape works if you sand it and just print at 45C. The plastic mixes with the paper fibers and holds the ABS well. If the bed gets too hot the glue under the tape gets too soft.
Thanks for the thought.
"The real question I suppose is why would you(print in ABS) when PLA is so much easier to print?"
Because nearly half the year where I live the temperature is above 113f(45c) and the UV is just brutal here in the desert. Even with polarized glass an hour in a sunny window or 20 minutes in a car is enough to deform functional PLA+ prints. I will shortly be enclosing my printer to print ABS, ASA, and CF/GF-Nylons. I have successfully printed a couple objects in ABS but the performance isn't my biggest problem printing with the material, it's the smell. I'll be building a HEPA filter into the new enclosure and I look forward to being able to print in whatever material I want without having to smell it, and of course being able to print with nylons.
And also making things to go into my PC, PLA+ warps if used in a few places inside of my case.
ABS glues well to PVC. There are solvent cements which work for both ABC and PVC, and can bond them together. (Epoxy and cyanoacrylate don't stick well to PVC.) I'm printing ABS parts which glue at the ends of meter-long PVC tubes.
How is this guy so good at 3D printing
When you breathe in enough ABS fumes you gain super 3D printing powers
As I have commented before, you are reading my google search history. Just yesterday I failed at trying ABS in a Wanhao I3 plus, using a photo tent as an enclosure. Even while I had warm, stable temperatures (40-45C) inside the tent, I still had warping, using around 15% infill. I guess I'll try again using thinner walls.
Haha maybe you were one of the people to comment on open frame ABS?
I have really good success printing ABS on my Prusa MK3. Eliminating any source of drafts in the room helps a lot, like a ceiling fan or even a AC/furnace vent can cause issues. I set my bed to 110C, this alone usually works great but if I still get peeling a brim always solves the issue.
Abs pro printing great 250 nozzle 80 bed on open frame ender2 :-)
Nice, I prefer PETG for the things that have to beaten Up, and to be Simi flexible.
Bug ye, PLA is the safe way..
Thanks for sharing 😀 👍
I only want to use abs cause I have a reef tank and I was told it was saltwater safe is there anything else I could use for my fish tank that is easier?
I used PLA and PETG till now with open-frame DIY printer. PETG actually sticks better than PLA if you use clean glass bed. Only downside is translucency, which you might not want
But there are Petg whith solid color , i have a black monoprice petg and looks great.(no transparency at all) , there are other colors like solid blue , etc( but i like the transparency)
Just to note,
The cubes warped the most because of the endges and corners.
Rounded objects dont warp as much.
Rounding corners and edges on squarer objects with fillets reduces warping also.
Thank you! Answered so many questions in a very easy to understand and enjoyable way.
Abs for the replacement clips to hold the under dash pad on my 1992 XJS... learned FreeCad and drew and printed them... learning OpenSCAD now... more my deal..😆
thanks for the video. I feel the need to mention though that the part where you say that the heated bed over 80 degrees will ruin the magnets, this is not accurate and has been tested with results having no affect on the magnets. Just thought I should mention this.
Personally I never print in ABS, so far i’ve found PETg and PLA to be sufficient, even for printing highish temp parts like hotend fan shrouds/ducts
My PLA Petsfang held up really well on the original ender 3, I agree.
Josef Prusa created an enclosure for his printers. The Ender 3 is a similar size so the enclosure will probably work for it. The "Photo Studio Tent" is only $15. The "Ikea Lack Enclosure" is amazing and the parts for it will run around $60. I was using thick construction bags to print ABS, but I bought the Ikea tables and I printed the parts listed in Prusa's video. I am going to build the Ikea Lack Enclosure for my Prusa MK2s, which is my dedicated ABS printer. I love my Prusa MK2s and I love the parts that I get with ABS. They are a lot more durable than my PLA parts, especially when used outdoors. Here is the video for Josef Prusa's enclosures: ua-cam.com/video/oS7ZtBNh2hE/v-deo.html
I really like the LACK design. It's affordable and clever. For me I hardly use ABS so it's not worth the effort. My Frankendoodle would be my easiest printer to enclose so I'll use that.
chep disproved the de-magnetism theory, cranks the bed to max with no problems😺
Great video! I used ABS for 1 print and it came out perfectly, tried the same thing again a week later it it keeps letting go. I'll follow your tips and see how it goes.
I use ABS because nowadays it is very cheap and I have a good stock. The best way to keep large faces on the bed is to use a skirt (2 layers with 15 lines). But last time I have printed a large surface it stayed on the bed but the steel sheet on the bed lifted up. :) So it is good idea not to use a steel sheet on the bed or use clips around it to hold it on the table.
I switched to abs+ from Esun won't vapour smooth but prints very well with little wrapping issues and almost the same properties as abs
Hi, can I easily print esun abs+ with an open frame printer?
I recommend using a light part fan setting for perimeters, because with the nozzle dragging, it will make "cat ears" in corners, which will turn into the sides "pinching in" due to cat ears happening earlier and earlier into the corners, until it's not sustainable and it will printer outward gradually due to cooling better with an exposed underside, which will create a sharp corner again.
ABS is notorious for that because it needs to be printed at an excessively high temperature, and corners will re-melt and lift when the nozzle puts another hot layer on top of it.
Look for, "Part Temperature, too hot 01" on the RepRap Wiki's "Print Troubleshooting Pictoral Guide".
yeah I couldn't get away from the splitting with ABS and the enclosure thing is a hassle. PETG and Annealed Tough PLA for me. Looks awesome too.
PLA degrades badly over time and will not last. I have several 6+ year old prints that have become so brittle they fall apart just by handling them.
Pla ingredients are mostly made up of biogradeable products. Used only for home purpose.
In vase mode there is not enough material mass to lift and separate the layers like with your cube example.
Vase mode would not affect the contraction forces as much because the single point nozzle is heated the single point object very well. Unlike in a large print with more surface area per layer than a vase.
It seems that adding a heater like a reptile heat lamp to an unclosed open frame machine would help to overcome this issue. I would love to see it tried.
I was about to post a question as to whether heat lamps would help. I'd love to see people respond to your suggestion.
I'm new to printing ABS but I moved my printer to a central hallways that had no windows/outside access, closed all the doors hallways so it was completely enclosed and put a small space heater to heat up the ambient temperature of the room and it worked fine. I had to slow the first layer more than with PLA+
everyone used to print ABS on open frames it's only recent (last 7 years or so) people started with the enclosures
Brilliant video. Grateful that you share your wisdom.
I'll print with ABS in a well ventilated workshop, when I need small automotive parts. Most plastic in cars is ABS, and I can print replacement and repair parts in abs, and slurry weld them to existing damaged car parts if necessary.
That's a great application. Do you acetone smooth too?
About this Thema, i agree with you. That improve a lot in regards to have warping with abs. I accidentally found another God way to avoid warping and it consists in have a very thin first layer. Almost transparent by reducing the extrusion flow and layer height for the first layer. But you will need a very good leveled bed. Once you can print this such as almost transparent first layer the warping will disappear forever! Maybe 0.05 first layer height. With 50% less extrusion material.
I find using a Brim helps when printing with ABS on an Ender 3
could you provide some photos? Im trying to figure out an enclosure that do not take to much space.
@ I print outside in a carport with plenty of ventilation. The Ender 3 is housed in a small cupboard I put on its side with a curtain hanging down the front. There are a series of 5cm breathing holes in the cabinet to allow airflow.
I've been using ABS (on a Tiertime UP+2) for five years. Yes, it can be problematic. Sharp corners are very often the problem areas. I've tried different tactics to combat the problem, Elmer's glue stick on the bed, adding small thin circular feet at the corners, adding small dots under the model to raise it 2mm off the raft (using a raft on an UP+2 is generally a good thing) so it has 2mm of support underneath it, reducing infill 15-20%.
With ABS you have to assess each model by itself and make a judgement as to what problems you are likely to encounter and what tricks to use. Oh! And the acetone smoothing and solvent-welding is definitely FTW!
@Luces Haither: Thanks for pointing out that even PLA warps. A month ago I did research on the basic characteristics of the filaments available. Sure, ABS shrinkage can be anywhere from 0.4% to 1.6%, typically 0.8%, but PLA's can anywhere from 0.3% to 0.5% so yes, it can warp too. This strays into the field of material sciences, a subject I know practically nothing about. LOL
@Teaching Tech: So there is a challenge for you, find a materials scientist who can explain the joys of shrinkage and warping of plastic filaments and how it relates to their density, glass transition temperature, shrinkage and chemistry? ;-)
Thanks for sharing your experiences and the hard data. I've had a few PLA prints lift like this, fortunately quite rarely.
For the terminally-curious here is the link to the Google Document I complied on filaments: docs.google.com/document/d/1w7oroTBSqWqnDzj3-cWjK2uOT1BJLjF5iL2dzejMYqs/edit?usp=sharing
(set to view only)
The caveat being that this may be no more than a thorough compilation of other people's ignorance. ;-)
OK, after printing it horizontally it seems to be a much better quality print. No warping or splitting. thx again!
I'm having horrible luck with ESun ABS+--no matter what bed temperature and extruder temperature I use it either have tons of blobs or simply doesn't exit the nozzle at all. I've had a lot of success with ESun PLA+ so I'm not sure what's going wrong. I've obsessively leveled and re-leveled since I started having these issues and still no luck!
thank you for making this informative video :) cheers.
Printing ABS without an enclosure can be much easier if you happen to live in a part of the world that has a much higher climate. Trying to print ABS in a cold room (like a garage or shed) in a cold part of the world is almost guaranteed to fail. Whereas printing ABS in a consistently warm room in a warmer part of the world is going to be less likely to fail. I've had much better success with ASA as it seems to have a reduced level of shrinkage leading to less of the typical failures. That being said, I only ever print these types of filament in an enclosed machine. The key to printing these filaments is minimising the risk of failures, otherwise it just ends up being an expensive waste of time and filament.
Hi Jarrod, great points. I agree completely.
I live in the tropics, 30-34C ambient temperature on a hot day, still fails, moreover I somewhat foolishly preferred ABS as my first filament because of the ease of post-process(sanding!), and they fail to print anything larger than 40mm, squarish and long XY-wise forms, no matter what I tried on my Ender 3 without the enclosure. just got my first 3d printer few days ago and I got blasted with disappointment of my own choice 😂
Yes abs in vase mode is best way to go...I discovered this after a few months learning 3d printing. plus a vase made with abs will last many years compared to pla...so its a win win...save your abs for vases..
Can you enable the caption button? I'm from Brazil, so I have a little dificulty understanding out some words. Your channel is awesome, by the way. Very high quality content.
I never touch ABS, its a nightmare. I have a heated glass bed, cranked up to these temperatures as discussed and never had anything larger than a coin print successfully. I know what you're thinking - not level, draughts etc., but no, its in a small contained room with no air movement, super leveled bed etc. I don't see much value in ABS anyway. I don't do artistic pieces, all my prints are replacement parts for things from motorbikes to luggage, and even subjected to years of outdoor use, never fatigued using PETG. I do have parts to build an enclosure, but I cannot see any point anymore once I'd tried PETG.
I wouldn't be using ABS but I love the super matte finish of Inland's black ABS and I cant seem to find any other filament that is as matte as this one. The matte black is a very nice finish for functional parts like printer upgrades and accessories. I'm finding that it is a pain to print sometimes though, normally when I'm printing objects that are very geometrically complex. I've been trying to print a part cooling fan duct and adapter plate for a 5015 fan for my Sidewinder X1, but the part is so hard to print in ABS that the print has failed five times in a row. I will not stop trying! I will persist until I have a flawlessly printed 5015 part cooling fan duct in my favorite ABS for my printer!
I do use ABS a lot but that its printed in my qidi tech1, I did try abs on the cr-10s but just small parts with not to much solid areas like a cube for example, that ones always will fail on open frame, I like petg but I hate print it... so slow, i give a try to PLA-PHA prints are almost like petg but that can be printed as fast as PLA.
I printed Petg at 60 mm/sec , the same as Pla , why yuo say "so slow" (in an ender 3)
Well i haven't started printing yet, but just got a roll of ABS. Needed for ICE (in car entertainment) parts, to hold sensitive items like screens and hardware. PLA is simply not an option, ABS does seem like the only prints capeble of withstanding direct sun heat in an already 50c car interior, as some forums users claim PETG has wrapped in their cars.
Plz do make a guide on how to improve ABS "stability", would be much appreciate!
That answered a lot of questions for me, many thanks.
I've never printed in ABS because of the toxicity, but it's good to know that my ender 3 will take at least PETG with no problem.
You should be aware that PETG has it's own printing problems. It is prone to stringing (like cobwebs) and the finished items tend to have a translucent appearance (semi see-through).
having used abs+ forever now they are a pain in the ass to dail in with temperature and fan speed, as some brand prefer no fan and some brand actually would like to have some cooler but need to be tuned as too much can cause warping. But once it dailed in you can print some really strong mechcnail parts that can stand high temperatures. I now have my printer fully enclosed with a heated chamber, and some of my printer parts are printed parts and i can say they can easily go above 70 degrees as my petg parts just soften and melts while the printer is printing abs.
I tried ABS on my ender 3 that has the original buildtak glued to the bed, after setting it to 100*C it peeled off.
After that even printing PLA would case it to peel off again and again.
So I replaced it, but good thing my bed is very flat now.
It looks like the warped bed issue is to do with uneven buildtak or its poor factory application...
I build Gold Prospecting Equipment out of ABS, have a small part designed to glue on my designs. I have ABS and a XYZ pro, I picked ABS for glueing ease.
But having adhesion issue, this might have helped, going to test now!! Thanks!
We should go dig for Gold sometime, if we ever end up on the same continent, LOL
I'm a bit late to the party....
I have only ever printed in PLA. I have had great success until recently when I saw Amazon Basics PLA on sale and bought 4 KG of it and its complete garbage. I just bought a spool of ABS because I'm planning to try to build a Voron 2.4. The recommended material is ABS. I'm excited to try it out. I'd be interested to hear what you think about the smell. Also I was planning to build sides for my printer but it sounds like they didn't do much? Is this correct?
Very informative; thanks.
Thank you for clarifying that.
Thanks again for the info.
I use abs sheet to thermoform gold Prospecting Equipment
have a design for a water bottle mount to put on them.
I would expect abs will glue up to each other good. What other filament, can be glued to ABS?
Got my MPCNC up and running too!
trying to figer out how to print voron parts with my ender 3. abs or asa is the only recommended
I found ABS printed really well if I made sure the ambient was at 60 degrees before starting a print. This is in my enclosed Robox. If I let the print start before the correct ambient temperature was reache it was usually a disaster.
Michael - This creator did a few videos testing the differences in VOCs between different types of filaments. The results are as you might expect, with ABS giving off quite a few more particles than the others. Also, see the first comment with more information on that topic too. ua-cam.com/video/sUe3jrj87aE/v-deo.html
Thanks John, great link, interesting reading.
thanks this really helped
I'm new to 3d printing and I'm in the process of getting an Ender 3 pro. The school that I work at has tons of ABS that they don't use and I was given some. I'm guessing that I'm going to have to change the bed and get the stronger glass one that holds more heat
Good info. Thanks.
Hi. Up until today I have been using PLA. I purchased some ABS but have yet to use it. Reason for the change was a part I printed in PLA failed. The small extruding part, which is to clip and hold another part, broke. I do like using PLA but I need more strength. Is ABS the right choice, do you think? I'm using a Cocoon Create Touch. This is my first printer and I love it.
I print PETG, it wraps, but not during printing, it sticks to the my Ender 3 stock bed perfectly. Although after removing it it shirks, one time it pulled up the bed when printing.
Trying my hand at ABS on my ender-3 for some car interior parts.
Open frame. Can closer be just plant growing closer? You know that box aluminium inside/black cloth outside encousure with zips?
Better use petg.. It has good temperature resistance, does not stink and does not lift so much or split
I've only been in the hobby for a month or so. I compulsively buy reels of PLA but I only have one reel of ABS that I have yet to crack open, I have an Ender 3 and an Anycubic Linear Delta which have given me enough of a learning curve that experimenting with ABS is far in the future. Especially since I'm also learning Fusion 360 to feed my machines. I've had some success with PETG but PLA is dialed in on Cura for my machines perfectly. In the far future I may build an enclosure for my delta but I suspect I'm going to need a machine with an AC bed AND enclosure to run ABS or Nylon correctly.
I think your experience matches my opinion that unless a project needs specific material properties, there is generally no need to stray from PLA. As a challenge and learning exercise however, you might well enjoy using ABS.
On your ender 3 V2, did you modify the motherboard fan? I've seen some videos saying the motherboard fan is only on when the part-cooling fan is. Thanks for a great channel!
that is correct, with no parts cooling fan on you have no mainboard fan, i tested it. good news is its an easy fix. unplug mainboard fan chop of plug and wire into the green terminals where the hotend fan is wired in. now mainboard runs all the time.
after enclosing my printer the main board lasted 50 hours and the x and y steppers lasted 220, you really need to move the electronics outside the enclosure or but a printer made for high temp filiments
I print ABS just fine in open air at 50ms, 0.2 LH and 50% infill.
What is the temperature in your room?
Hi. I’m a little late to the party but you have some experience I’d like to benefit from.
I have a Tevo Nereus which is just a larger version of the Tornado.
I’m trying to print ABS and tried to print at 235C nozzle temperature and 95C bed temperature.
How do you run a 100C bed temperature without thermal runaway errors?
My max bed temperature limit is set at 110C.
I’ll be building an enclosure to ventilate and control drafts so it will be more “semi” enclosed than open but so far, I haven’t gotten past the first .2 mm before the print fails.
@Teaching Tech
Just wondering what material you would choose for printing a computer case, it will be printed in sections and glued together, also I am trying to decide between the Ender 3 mk2 and the
Ender 3 Pro, are they both just as capable with filament or is one more capable than the other. I will get around to building an enclosure for it as time permits.
I was going to buy a Prusa but I just can't let go of that much money at once, so I decided on the Ender3's and I will upgrade as I get using it more confidently.
wow, that's a great video!
and where is the guide for successful print with abs using an open frame printer?
I’ve been printing for about9 months and haven’t opened the one roll of abs, I mostly print pla for the wide variety of colors.
I rarely use it either, but have many rolls left from the early days.
What about the fumes? How dangerous is it?
Hey. I print ABS since 2012 with a RepRap (3mm filament). I have tuned my two printers at the same configuration. Nozzle in 236C for the first layer and 226C for the rest. All beds I set at 110C and use glass with Women Hair Spray. Normally it prints always good! I start to have problems if the printing time go over 5h!
Throw a trash bag over the printer as a makeshift enclosure if you don’t have one already, also in my experience I have had better success with buildtak than I did with glass. I have printed 10 hour prints with no warping or layer separation. I also use a brim with 4 layers. I’m using an Ender 3.
What are your fan settings at ?